rallyboy Posted 13 October, 2023 Share Posted 13 October, 2023 53 minutes ago, Turkish said: It was all going well until a certain few posters waded in with their myopic views . If I may offer an alternative theory me old mucker, I think the debate was probably going well until people offering balanced views were labelled as cunts for no reason at all. Normal people switch off at that point, rather than getting dragged into childish spats with shouty dullards, who despite proclaiming themselves as experts in every field of human endeavour, appear to struggle mastering basic tasks like operating a keyboard... Calling everyone cunts just destroys the debate - and eventually, the forum. 6 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Turkish Posted 13 October, 2023 Share Posted 13 October, 2023 1 minute ago, rallyboy said: If I may offer an alternative theory me old mucker, I think the debate was probably going well until people offering balanced views were labelled as cunts for no reason at all. Normal people switch off at that point, rather than getting dragged into childish spats with shouty dullards, who despite proclaiming themselves as experts in every field of human endeavour, appear to struggle mastering basic tasks like operating a keyboard... Calling everyone cunts just destroys the debate - and eventually, the forum. Any idea who that was? Certainly wasn't me if that's what you're implying. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
egg Posted 13 October, 2023 Author Share Posted 13 October, 2023 1 minute ago, Turkish said: Any idea who that was? Certainly wasn't me if that's what you're implying. Read above Del. SoG has not dragged this thread down - he has contributed sensibly to the discussion. The descent of this thread is unfortunate, and hopefully it can get back to people offering their respective views in a reasonable way. Too many decent threads have been ruined by unnecessary nonsense, and this one is going the same way. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gloucester Saint Posted 13 October, 2023 Share Posted 13 October, 2023 2 hours ago, Lord Duckhunter said: I did say that I can’t speak for the military or millions of Israeli people. However, in 2 days I probably spoke to more Israelis about his than most people have in their lifetime. There was absolutely no desire for their Government to do anything other than crush Hamas. It was early days and the full horror of what happened hadn’t really become apparent, but I was struck by the lack of real hatred towards the Palestinian people as a whole. It was solely towards Hamas . I heard worse about The Irish when the IRA were blowing up our cities. Young people in particular were not war mongers, and there was a genuine sadness about what is going to happen. There are clearly hardliners that will take a different approach & those people are in positions of power, but there definitely wasn’t a desire for blood thirsty revenge amongst the general population I met. Whilst it won’t stop The Government in the short term, I don’t think there will be the pressure for this to go on and on, and they will get a bit of wiggle room when they eventually have to “normalise” the situation. Which there probably isn’t amongst the general population, and the hardliners have been poised for a few years for a scrap, which Hamas and Iran have been stupid enough to give them in the most vile and unspeakable way. What will be making the Netanyahu crowd think harder is the threat of Hezbollah getting involved on the northern border with Lebanon. Lebanon could really do without it too, so far no dice but Hezbollah has mobilised and trained troops that could get involved in S Lebanon. Israel would be more stretched by a punch up on two fronts - probably Putin’s dream to distract the West on his dreadful Ukraine campaign - and the 2006-10 punch-up Israel had there was very damaging for all concerned. https://apnews.com/article/hezbollah-israel-hamas-lebanon-war-423f5f20d691dcd0cc8af1788f11857b#tbl-em-lnopvz2qq8miutzqdhh Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fan The Flames Posted 13 October, 2023 Share Posted 13 October, 2023 Putin has now waded in, he knows how to troll the world. If he wasn't anti-US/Isreal he would be defending Isreal's right of defense. This is part of the problem with this region, full of proxy and external actors. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Duckhunter Posted 13 October, 2023 Share Posted 13 October, 2023 57 minutes ago, Gloucester Saint said: What will be making the Netanyahu crowd think harder is the threat of Hezbollah getting involved on the northern border with Lebanon. Lebanon could really do without it too, so far no dice but Hezbollah has mobilised and trained troops that could get involved in S Lebanon. Israel would be more stretched by a punch up on two fronts - Interesting discussion on the radio regarding this last night. One of the contributors (I think he worked for Netaynau previously), said that their involvement would be down to Iran, and on balance he felt Iran will want Hezbollah to step back from a full scale attack. He felt the US Carrier in the Med & their unequivocally support of Isreal the past week will inform that decision. He reckons they’ll fire a few rockets as a token gesture, but will step back. The general consensus was The US won’t get directly involved, but if Hezbollah do go full out, they will use their anti missile kit (he mentioned ships surrounding the air craft carrier that have this capability) to protect Israeli cities. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rallyboy Posted 13 October, 2023 Share Posted 13 October, 2023 1 hour ago, Turkish said: Any idea who that was? Certainly wasn't me if that's what you're implying. No, not you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
badgerx16 Posted 13 October, 2023 Share Posted 13 October, 2023 3 hours ago, buctootim said: How do you know that? As Timmy Mallett used to say, "I know it's true, I made it up myself". 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sadoldgit Posted 13 October, 2023 Share Posted 13 October, 2023 A sudden spike in anti-Semitic hate crimes, Jewish schools closed today over fears for the pupils’ safety, pro Palestinian marches planned for the weekend. Sunak and Starmer need to address this politically before things become even more polarised. It’s all very well saying that they stand with Israel but they also need to show more empathy with the innocents in Gaza. It really isn’t helping the Jewish communities here by ignoring the humanitarian catastrophe about to unfold in Gaza. There is clearly a lot of anger about it and it is already being directed at Jewish people here. 2 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Kraken Posted 13 October, 2023 Share Posted 13 October, 2023 19 minutes ago, sadoldgit said: A sudden spike in anti-Semitic hate crimes, Jewish schools closed today over fears for the pupils’ safety, pro Palestinian marches planned for the weekend. Sunak and Starmer need to address this politically before things become even more polarised. It’s all very well saying that they stand with Israel but they also need to show more empathy with the innocents in Gaza. It really isn’t helping the Jewish communities here by ignoring the humanitarian catastrophe about to unfold in Gaza. There is clearly a lot of anger about it and it is already being directed at Jewish people here. What’s wrong with a pro Palestine march? Palestine and Hamas aren’t the same thing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Duckhunter Posted 13 October, 2023 Share Posted 13 October, 2023 (edited) 23 minutes ago, sadoldgit said: A sudden spike in anti-Semitic hate crimes, Jewish schools closed today over fears for the pupils’ safety, pro Palestinian marches planned for the weekend. Sunak and Starmer need to address this politically before things become even more polarised. Fucking hell, it’s Sunak & Starmers fault. Unbelievable. You’ve spent years banging on about Tommy Robinson, Farage & Katie Hopkins, going on about hate, about racism, but when given real examples of hate against a particular group going up at an unbelievable rate, when kids safety can’t be guaranteed, you blame the politicians and not the people with real hate running through their veins. For all you pious righteousness, you’ve proved it was never about the victims and all about you showing what a “good person” you are. Pathetic… Edited 13 October, 2023 by Lord Duckhunter 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fan The Flames Posted 13 October, 2023 Share Posted 13 October, 2023 1 minute ago, Lord Duckhunter said: Fucking hell, it’s Sunak & Starmers fault. Unbelievable. You’ve spent years banging on about Tommy Robinson, Farage & Katie Hopkins, going on about hate, about racism, but when given real examples of hate against a particular group going up at an unbelievable rate, when kids safety can’t be guaranteed, you blame the politicians and not the people with real hate running through their veins. For all you pious righteousness, you’ve proved it was never about the victims and all about you showing what a “good person” you are. Pathetic… Give it a rest mate, you don't like SOG we get it. 5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Duckhunter Posted 13 October, 2023 Share Posted 13 October, 2023 13 minutes ago, The Kraken said: What’s wrong with a pro Palestine march? Palestine and Hamas aren’t the same thing. He thinks Jews & Israelis are the same thing, so you shouldn’t be surprised. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sadoldgit Posted 13 October, 2023 Share Posted 13 October, 2023 2 hours ago, The Kraken said: What’s wrong with a pro Palestine march? Palestine and Hamas aren’t the same thing. No they are not, but that doesn’t stop the likes of Braverman conflating support for one with the other. It is quite possible that Hamas supporters will infiltrate pro Palestinian marches for there own end. There is one report tonight of one speaker at a rally using their terminology. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Kraken Posted 13 October, 2023 Share Posted 13 October, 2023 4 minutes ago, sadoldgit said: No they are not, but that doesn’t stop the likes of Braverman conflating support for one with the other. It is quite possible that Hamas supporters will infiltrate pro Palestinian marches for there own end. There is one report tonight of one speaker at a rally using their terminology. Well yes it’s of course possible, but using a bigoted racist twat in an argument against marches to protest about an absolute carpet bombing of innocents perhaps isn’t the best counter point. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tamesaint Posted 14 October, 2023 Share Posted 14 October, 2023 Huge agg at the moment in Times Square. Palestinians one side shouting "shame on you" . Israel supporters on the other,significantly outnumbered, separated by loads of police. Plenty of Palestinian flags being waved (don't tell Suella). The Jewish faction in America is very well entrenched - but don't underestimate the support for Palestine. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Picard Posted 14 October, 2023 Share Posted 14 October, 2023 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sadoldgit Posted 14 October, 2023 Share Posted 14 October, 2023 (edited) 14 hours ago, The Kraken said: Well yes it’s of course possible, but using a bigoted racist twat in an argument against marches to protest about an absolute carpet bombing of innocents perhaps isn’t the best counter point. If you read my post properly I wasn’t suggesting that the marches should be banned, just that they could become a tinder point if we aren’t careful with our position (when I say “our” I am referring to the Government). Mrs SOG has been texting her bestie this morning whose daughter is an officer in the Met (not sure how, she is about 3ft tall). She was on duty on a pro Palestinian march yesterday which she said went off peacefully and was good natured where she was. Interesting to see those figures from the US. I assumed that they would be for the Israelis and strongly against the Muslims/Arabs. No surprise at the disparity between the Democrats and Republicans though. Reports of a missile strike on a convoy of trucks travelling to the south of Gaza as told to leave the north by the Israelis. Women and children killed. A relatively brief summary of how we got here. https://amp.theguardian.com/world/2023/oct/13/why-israel-palestine-conflict-history Edited 14 October, 2023 by sadoldgit Added text Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Weston Super Saint Posted 14 October, 2023 Share Posted 14 October, 2023 41 minutes ago, sadoldgit said: Mrs SOG has been texting her bestie this morning whose daughter is an officer in the Met (not sure how, she is about 3ft tall). She was on duty on a pro Palestinian march yesterday which she said went off peacefully and was good natured where she was. Phew, that's a relief. These must be just a coincidence I guess. https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-67102528 Quote There has been a "massive increase" in antisemitic incidents in London since the Hamas attacks on Israel, the Metropolitan Police said. Between 30 September and 13 October there were 105 antisemitic incidents and 75 offences. In the same period last year, there were 14 antisemitic incidents and 12 offences. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AlexLaw76 Posted 14 October, 2023 Share Posted 14 October, 2023 8 minutes ago, Weston Super Saint said: Phew, that's a relief. These must be just a coincidence I guess. https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-67102528 If it was peaceful, must have been without violent issues like a cartoon drawing of a make believe thing..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Toadhall Saint Posted 14 October, 2023 Share Posted 14 October, 2023 Looks like only one way out of north Gaza now as Israel has targeted one of its own so called safe routes killing a few - children included. But hey that’s ok cos they would have grown up to be hamas or something. We are in a dangerous place when the world stands by and allows this to go on. 8 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AlexLaw76 Posted 14 October, 2023 Share Posted 14 October, 2023 (edited) 16 minutes ago, Toadhall Saint said: Looks like only one way out of north Gaza now as Israel has targeted one of its own so called safe routes killing a few - children included. But hey that’s ok cos they would have grown up to be hamas or something. We are in a dangerous place when the world stands by and allows this to go on. What on earth do you think anyone will do? Israel will plough on and kill everyone who gets in the way until the point the USA tell them it is enough, and the public statements by figures in other nations mean nothing (always have). The Government/Government leaning media will do their best to keep us onside. Edited 14 October, 2023 by AlexLaw76 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AlexLaw76 Posted 14 October, 2023 Share Posted 14 October, 2023 Egypt have opened the border......but only for US passport holders That is jolly nice of them Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
benjii Posted 14 October, 2023 Share Posted 14 October, 2023 1 hour ago, Toadhall Saint said: Looks like only one way out of north Gaza now as Israel has targeted one of its own so called safe routes killing a few - children included. But hey that’s ok cos they would have grown up to be hamas or something. We are in a dangerous place when the world stands by and allows this to go on. Yeah, dropping bombs/shelling trucks full of people on the main highway south does, on the face of it, look like the work of a complete cunt. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sheaf Saint Posted 14 October, 2023 Share Posted 14 October, 2023 Netanyahu has visited the massed troops (including reservists) on the Gaza border and was heard to ask them "are you ready for the next phase?" The ground assault is imminent. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
badgerx16 Posted 14 October, 2023 Share Posted 14 October, 2023 11 minutes ago, Sheaf Saint said: Netanyahu has visited the massed troops (including reservists) on the Gaza border and was heard to ask them "are you ready for the next phase?" The ground assault is imminent. Looks like he will get his wilderness of rubble. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Weston Super Saint Posted 14 October, 2023 Share Posted 14 October, 2023 I'm not sure sog's Mrs's best mate's daughter will be the most reliable source for how peaceful or not the demonstrations are. I'm assuming the met police will want the aggressive, larger cops on the frontline if it kicks off and the dwarf officers are likely to be elsewhere looking after cats that are stuck up trees and shit.... Although I'd be very surprised if everything is peaceful - demonstrations tend to attract counter demonstrations which invariably leads to the odd bit of violence or two. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
egg Posted 14 October, 2023 Author Share Posted 14 October, 2023 (edited) On 13/10/2023 at 15:38, Weston Super Saint said: . ... Edited 14 October, 2023 by egg Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sadoldgit Posted 14 October, 2023 Share Posted 14 October, 2023 (edited) 7 hours ago, Weston Super Saint said: Phew, that's a relief. These must be just a coincidence I guess. https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-67102528 What on earth are you talking about? I had already previously referenced the spike in anti-Semitic hate crimes in a previous post but I was specifically talking about the pro Palestinian yesterday. How did you manage to confuse the two? 58 minutes ago, Weston Super Saint said: I'm not sure sog's Mrs's best mate's daughter will be the most reliable source for how peaceful or not the demonstrations are. I'm assuming the met police will want the aggressive, larger cops on the frontline if it kicks off and the dwarf officers are likely to be elsewhere looking after cats that are stuck up trees and shit.... Although I'd be very surprised if everything is peaceful - demonstrations tend to attract counter demonstrations which invariably leads to the odd bit of violence or two. She might be short but she is gutsy. Her previous job was as a prison warden in Wandsworth nick. Like one or two others here you seem to be stuck in the 70’s. There are plenty of female police officers on the front line nowadays. If you made that comment to her face about cats up trees you’d end up wearing your testicles as a bow tie. Go and look at the news reports about the march. See anything about it all kicking off? 7 arrests amongst tens of thousands of people. Hardly a big deal was it? If you want to carry on playing silly buggers there are plenty of other threads that are more suitable. This is not the place for your childish WUMmery. https://amp.theguardian.com/uk-news/2023/oct/14/thousands-march-through-central-london-to-call-for-a-free-palestine Edited 14 October, 2023 by sadoldgit Added text 2 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Duckhunter Posted 14 October, 2023 Share Posted 14 October, 2023 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sheaf Saint Posted 15 October, 2023 Share Posted 15 October, 2023 (edited) I've had this sent to me in a WhatsApp group - it's from a friend's other half who is Jewish... "Having visited Palestine twice and seen the reality of life under occupation and experiencing an unprovoked teargas attack by Israeli military in a peaceful civilian area I feel outraged by the sanctioning of what amounts to genocide by the governments of the UK and US and the biased reporting by much of the media. I’m sending this to all my contacts. If you want to talk about it feel free to get in touch. If you are able to share please do so. My friends in a refugee camp near Bethlehem have told me they too have had water, electricity and food supplies cut off. They are not in Gaza. They are just Palestinians. (JVP = Jewish Voice for Peace.)" Edited 15 October, 2023 by Sheaf Saint 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
egg Posted 15 October, 2023 Author Share Posted 15 October, 2023 This is a very passionate and honest article from a Canadian journalist. I couldn't agree more with this part: "The monstrous plan is as plain as Netanyahu’s wretched character: Be done with Gaza by erasing Gaza. Anyone, anywhere, in any forum who denies this fact is either a liar, blind – or willfully, happily, and comfortably both". https://www.aljazeera.com/opinions/2023/10/14/this-is-genocide Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
badgerx16 Posted 15 October, 2023 Share Posted 15 October, 2023 8 minutes ago, egg said: This is a very passionate and honest article from a Canadian journalist. I couldn't agree more with this part: "The monstrous plan is as plain as Netanyahu’s wretched character: Be done with Gaza by erasing Gaza. Anyone, anywhere, in any forum who denies this fact is either a liar, blind – or willfully, happily, and comfortably both". https://www.aljazeera.com/opinions/2023/10/14/this-is-genocide We don't need balance or facts when discussing Israel. Please stay on message. 😉 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
egg Posted 15 October, 2023 Author Share Posted 15 October, 2023 20 minutes ago, badgerx16 said: We don't need balance or facts when discussing Israel. Please stay on message. 😉 Sorry Badger, well reminded. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AlexLaw76 Posted 15 October, 2023 Share Posted 15 October, 2023 (edited) Just to nudge the general UK population into the right swim lane, I suspect there will be comments/reports that Hamas and their supporters have intentions of bringing war beyond the current lines/boundaries..... Edited 15 October, 2023 by AlexLaw76 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
whelk Posted 15 October, 2023 Share Posted 15 October, 2023 26 minutes ago, badgerx16 said: We don't need balance or facts when discussing Israel. Please stay on message. 😉 Thread is full of nothing but earnest Palestinian fan boys TBF 1 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sadoldgit Posted 15 October, 2023 Share Posted 15 October, 2023 So perhaps Corbyn’s stance on the plight of the Palestinians was right all along? Those who used the anti-Semite label to shut him down should maybe rethink their position. Iran are ramping up their rhetoric and with Russian backing and the US firmly in the Israeli corner things could escalate fast unless cooler heads prevail. The Times columnist who said on Friday that we should all shut up and let Israel do what they want in retaliation for the Hamas attacks might want to reconsider what giving them a free hand in this could mean too. Yes, of course Israel has a right to defend itself. It doesn’t have the right to drag us all to the brink of a global war though. Hamas wanted this escalation all along and Netanyahu has played into their hands. The West needs to drop this blind standing by Israel stance and adopt a more neutral position. Pressure needs to be put on both sides to take a step back and instead of standing behind one or the other, the rest of the world through the auspices of the UN needs to be working to de-esculate rather than escalate the position. 2 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
egg Posted 15 October, 2023 Author Share Posted 15 October, 2023 4 minutes ago, sadoldgit said: So perhaps Corbyn’s stance on the plight of the Palestinians was right all along? Those who used the anti-Semite label to shut him down should maybe rethink their position. Iran are ramping up their rhetoric and with Russian backing and the US firmly in the Israeli corner things could escalate fast unless cooler heads prevail. The Times columnist who said on Friday that we should all shut up and let Israel do what they want in retaliation for the Hamas attacks might want to reconsider what giving them a free hand in this could mean too. Yes, of course Israel has a right to defend itself. It doesn’t have the right to drag us all to the brink of a global war though. Hamas wanted this escalation all along and Netanyahu has played into their hands. The West needs to drop this blind standing by Israel stance and adopt a more neutral position. Pressure needs to be put on both sides to take a step back and instead of standing behind one or the other, the rest of the world through the auspices of the UN needs to be working to de-esculate rather than escalate the position. I'm not getting into a Corbyn chat, but the rest of it is spot on. I honestly don't think that Western governments, and their supportive media, have read the room in terms of public opinion. 2 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sheaf Saint Posted 15 October, 2023 Share Posted 15 October, 2023 5 minutes ago, whelk said: Thread is full of nothing but earnest Palestinian fan boys TBF While you've planted your flag firmly on the other side of the fence and seem unwilling to accept that it is not a simple black and white situation. For clarity, I have a lot of sympathy for the innocent Israeli people who have been killed or injured by terrorist actions from Hamas, while I also have sympathy for the great many more Palestinian civilians (see my previous post) who have suffered at the hands of Israeli occupation. You were the one claiming there is no equivalence in this scenario, and you're right, there isn't. 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
whelk Posted 15 October, 2023 Share Posted 15 October, 2023 4 minutes ago, Sheaf Saint said: While you've planted your flag firmly on the other side of the fence and seem unwilling to accept that it is not a simple black and white situation. For clarity, I have a lot of sympathy for the innocent Israeli people who have been killed or injured by terrorist actions from Hamas, while I also have sympathy for the great many more Palestinian civilians (see my previous post) who have suffered at the hands of Israeli occupation. You were the one claiming there is no equivalence in this scenario, and you're right, there isn't. I don’t think I am as black and white as you may think but does feel like it is a sixth form common room. My daughter recently said free Palestine but is pretty clueless about the situation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Colinjb Posted 15 October, 2023 Share Posted 15 October, 2023 (edited) The part I am struggling to understand here, is just what were Hamas trying to achieve with their incursion last week? It cannot just have been death for death's sake. Even if it was a frustrated reaction to conditions imposed on them the reaction from Israel cannot have been a surprise. Edited 15 October, 2023 by Colinjb Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
whelk Posted 15 October, 2023 Share Posted 15 October, 2023 7 minutes ago, egg said: I'm not getting into a Corbyn chat, but the rest of it is spot on. I honestly don't think that Western governments, and their supportive media, have read the room in terms of public opinion. Maybe they know the dangers of the folk who see know evil. Look who is backing Hamas tells you all. Naive in extreme. There is no good outcome. But just having sympathy for the Palestinians is neither here or there in terms of policy or solutions. I don’t have the answer btw Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
whelk Posted 15 October, 2023 Share Posted 15 October, 2023 3 minutes ago, Colinjb said: The part I am struggling to understand here, is just what were Hamas trying to achieve with their incursion last week? It cannot just have been death for death's sake. Even if it was a frustrated reaction to conditions imposed on them the reaction from Israel cannot have been a surprise. Hamas don’t give a fuck about plight of Palestinians. They knew what they were doing and in many ways achieving aims - see this thread for the loathing of Israel. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
egg Posted 15 October, 2023 Author Share Posted 15 October, 2023 1 minute ago, Colinjb said: The part I am struggling to understand here, is just what were Hamas trying to achieve with their incursion last week? It cannot just have been death for death's sake. Even if it was a frustrated reaction to conditions imposed on them the reaction from Israel cannot have been a surprise. Ditto. I get that they'd had enough, but what they did was large scale terrorism. Sure, they expected a response , but did they expect something on this scale? The denial of water and food? The forced exodus to South Gaza, and then in all likelihood over the border? In terms of motivation I think that they thought that others would draw themselves in and attack Israel. In reality I can't see that happening. On that, Hamas didn't read the room. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lighthouse Posted 15 October, 2023 Share Posted 15 October, 2023 8 minutes ago, Colinjb said: The part I am struggling to understand here, is just what were Hamas trying to achieve with their incursion last week? It cannot just have been death for death's sake. Even if it was a frustrated reaction to conditions imposed on them the reaction from Israel cannot have been a surprise. Oh yes it can. There are plenty of people out there genuinely longing for Armageddon; judgement day so that whichever god they happen to believe in can grant them eternal paradise and punish the non believers. 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
egg Posted 15 October, 2023 Author Share Posted 15 October, 2023 2 minutes ago, whelk said: Maybe they know the dangers of the folk who see know evil. Look who is backing Hamas tells you all. Naive in extreme. There is no good outcome. But just having sympathy for the Palestinians is neither here or there in terms of policy or solutions. I don’t have the answer btw I'm not sure on the answer, but the Israeli government know that they won't wipe out Hamas or it's ideology. Until occupation ends I don't think that the ideology has even a modicum of hope of being erased. Even then I'm struggling to see that it will end, and events like this past week (the actions of both sides) only amplify the ideology that exists on both sides. Fwiw, I think we haven't seen anything yet in terms of this conflict. It won't end well for Palestinians, or Gaza and the West Bank, and it's people. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
egg Posted 15 October, 2023 Author Share Posted 15 October, 2023 9 minutes ago, whelk said: Hamas don’t give a fuck about plight of Palestinians. They knew what they were doing and in many ways achieving aims - see this thread for the loathing of Israel. There's no loathing of Israel on this thread. There's loathing for the behaviour of the Israeli government. The difference is huge. 5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
whelk Posted 15 October, 2023 Share Posted 15 October, 2023 (edited) 4 minutes ago, egg said: There's no loathing of Israel on this thread. There's loathing for the behaviour of the Israeli government. The difference is huge. Ok but from what I hear they have almost complete support from the population who are clearly traumatised and living in fear of what their legion of enemies will do to them unchecked. Many seemed to be absolutely opposed to Netanyahu and his populist govt prior to last Saturday but now galvanised the support. We are base creatures when it comes to survival and want revenge, however futile it is. Edited 15 October, 2023 by whelk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
badgerx16 Posted 15 October, 2023 Share Posted 15 October, 2023 14 minutes ago, whelk said: Hamas don’t give a fuck about plight of Palestinians. They knew what they were doing and in many ways achieving aims - see this thread for the loathing of Israel. Are we back on the equivalence of anti-Netanyahu's policies and anti-semitism ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
whelk Posted 15 October, 2023 Share Posted 15 October, 2023 Just now, badgerx16 said: Are we back on the equivalence of anti-Netanyahu's policies and anti-semitism ? Hard to tell with some. Do you think Corbyn was anti-Semitic or just anti Netanyahu? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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