Israel

[sadoldgit]

5 hours ago, badgerx16 said:

Don't tell SOGgy that Oswald Moseley was a Labour MP between 1926 and 1931.

He could have been a Buddhist Monk, it doesn’t alter what he became.

[Fan The Flames]

I know people don't like to admit it but SOG has a point, the far right can't make their minds up who they hate, first it's the Jews, then it's black Caribbeans, then it's Indian subcontinent, then black Africans, then Arabs, then Muslims. Dropping their hatred for one group if it suits their hatred for the new group, it's almost like they didn't have a real reason to hate them in the first place.

[Weston Super Saint]

21 minutes ago, Fan The Flames said:

I know people don't like to admit it but SOG has a point, the far right can't make their minds up who they hate, first it's the Jews, then it's black Caribbeans, then it's Indian subcontinent, then black Africans, then Arabs, then Muslims. Dropping their hatred for one group if it suits their hatred for the new group, it's almost like they didn't have a real reason to hate them in the first place.

You know the reason is because they are "foreign" though don't you?

For the record, that's not my opinion but the opinion of the far right. Always has been, always will be. Anyone who isn't white, Anglo Saxon looking is a foreigner (I know, there is irony in the Anglo Saxon definition, but no one said these guys were smart!).

[whelk]

58 minutes ago, Fan The Flames said:

I know people don't like to admit it but SOG has a point, the far right can't make their minds up who they hate, first it's the Jews, then it's black Caribbeans, then it's Indian subcontinent, then black Africans, then Arabs, then Muslims. Dropping their hatred for one group if it suits their hatred for the new group, it's almost like they didn't have a real reason to hate them in the first place.

Despite what SOG claims I have not seen evidence of any regular posters being remotely linked to the far right.

Almost everyone agrees the EDL and similar are odious hate-filled scum. Suits Sogs narrative to bracket posters in this group.

Like the boy that cried wolf people switch off

[The Kraken]

1 hour ago, whelk said:

Despite what SOG claims I have not seen evidence of any regular posters being remotely linked to the far right.

Almost everyone agrees the EDL and similar are odious hate-filled scum. Suits Sogs narrative to bracket posters in this group.

Like the boy that cried wolf people switch off

Sounds like something a Tommy Robinson supporter would say........

[Fan The Flames]

1 hour ago, whelk said:

Despite what SOG claims I have not seen evidence of any regular posters being remotely linked to the far right.

Almost everyone agrees the EDL and similar are odious hate-filled scum. Suits Sogs narrative to bracket posters in this group.

Like the boy that cried wolf people switch off

For the record I'm not saying anyone here is either.

[hypochondriac]

2 hours ago, Fan The Flames said:

I know people don't like to admit it but SOG has a point, the far right can't make their minds up who they hate, first it's the Jews, then it's black Caribbeans, then it's Indian subcontinent, then black Africans, then Arabs, then Muslims. Dropping their hatred for one group if it suits their hatred for the new group, it's almost like they didn't have a real reason to hate them in the first place.

Or maybe people aren't groups and it's different people in each case with differing opinions?

[hypochondriac]

1 hour ago, whelk said:

Despite what SOG claims I have not seen evidence of any regular posters being remotely linked to the far right.

Almost everyone agrees the EDL and similar are odious hate-filled scum. Suits Sogs narrative to bracket posters in this group.

Like the boy that cried wolf people switch off

Are the edl even a thing anymore? I could be wrong but I thought they disbanded about 15 years ago.

[revolution saint]

40 minutes ago, hypochondriac said:

Are the edl even a thing anymore? I could be wrong but I thought they disbanded about 15 years ago.

No, they're back together and mostly do Butlins and other holiday camps with the BNP headlining.  The far right nostalgia tour has been sold out for months now.

[sadoldgit]

38 minutes ago, Fan The Flames said:

For the record I'm not saying anyone here is either.

If someone votes for, supports or defends  someone/policies from the far right on social media, they are no better. You don’t have to be a full on Mosley to be an enabler for that kind of mindset.

[Fan The Flames]

54 minutes ago, hypochondriac said:

Or maybe people aren't groups and it's different people in each case with differing opinions?

You would hope that's what people thought.

[whelk]

1 hour ago, hypochondriac said:

Are the edl even a thing anymore? I could be wrong but I thought they disbanded about 15 years ago.

We see through your game. Pretending you aren’t a fully paid up member 

[whelk]

1 hour ago, sadoldgit said:

full on Mosley

Nice topical reference 

[The Kraken]

If someone votes for, supports or defends someone/policies from the far left on social media, they are no better. You don’t have to be a full on Corbyn to be an enabler for that kind of antisemitic mindset.

[sadoldgit]

1 minute ago, The Kraken said:

If someone votes for, supports or defends someone/policies from the far left on social media, they are no better. You don’t have to be a full on Corbyn to be an enabler for that kind of antisemitic mindset.

Continue to play the antisemitic card for anyone expressing any pro Palestinian sentiments if it makes you happy. I have just listened to a statement from a Jewish survivor of the Holocaust saying that what is happening in Gaza is genocide. I guess that makes him an antisemite too? More and more people are calling on Israel to stop the carnage and for both sides to work towards peace.If that makes us all antisemitic so be it.

[sadoldgit]

2 hours ago, hypochondriac said:

Or maybe people aren't groups and it's different people in each case with differing opinions?

If a number of different people have the same xenophobic/racist views against a different set of people, does it make them any less xenophobic/racist? What are you trying to say? That Britain’s far right are okay with Jewish people now because they have decided to hate on Muslims instead? Can you find any examples since before 7th October where our far right groups were cozying up to Jewish people? I don’t think you will find many Jewish people happy to see our far right marching with them.

[Lord Duckhunter]

7 minutes ago, sadoldgit said:

Continue to play the antisemitic card for anyone expressing any pro Palestinian sentiments

but given the way that Jewish people have been discriminated against through the ages their treatment of the Palestinians does them no credit. You don’t get a free pass to crush someone or displace them just because it has happened to you in the past.

[hypochondriac]

14 minutes ago, sadoldgit said:

If a number of different people have the same xenophobic/racist views against a different set of people, does it make them any less xenophobic/racist? What are you trying to say? That Britain’s far right are okay with Jewish people now because they have decided to hate on Muslims instead? Can you find any examples since before 7th October where our far right groups were cozying up to Jewish people? I don’t think you will find many Jewish people happy to see our far right marching with them.

Where did I say anything like that? I was simply making the very obvious case that some racists form the 1930s are not the same individuals or group of people as alleged racists in the modern day. I've got no idea what these people thought of Jews prior to October, I always thought the edl and whatever it is now was primarily concerned with radical Islam but you seem to be quite knowledgeable to the subject so maybe you can let us know what they believe .

Putting everyone in a box called racist or far right and then attributing views to them from every racist or far right group in history is ridiculous. 

Edited June 5 by hypochondriac

[hypochondriac]

24 minutes ago, sadoldgit said:

Continue to play the antisemitic card for anyone expressing any pro Palestinian sentiments if it makes you happy. I have just listened to a statement from a Jewish survivor of the Holocaust saying that what is happening in Gaza is genocide. I guess that makes him an antisemite too? More and more people are calling on Israel to stop the carnage and for both sides to work towards peace.If that makes us all antisemitic so be it.

Extremist far left policies are appaling and have led to much misery ,death and impoverishment around the world. Hopefully we can all agree on that.

[Turkish]

5 hours ago, Fan The Flames said:

I know people don't like to admit it but SOG has a point, the far right can't make their minds up who they hate, first it's the Jews, then it's black Caribbeans, then it's Indian subcontinent, then black Africans, then Arabs, then Muslims. Dropping their hatred for one group if it suits their hatred for the new group, it's almost like they didn't have a real reason to hate them in the first place.

Maybe he does and sometimes he doesn’t make a good put but unfortunately any point he makes is usually laced with piousness and tiresome banging on about some horseshit about everyone being far right 

[sadoldgit]

1 hour ago, hypochondriac said:

Where did I say anything like that? I was simply making the very obvious case that some racists form the 1930s are not the same individuals or group of people as alleged racists in the modern day. I've got no idea what these people thought of Jews prior to October, I always thought the edl and whatever it is now was primarily concerned with radical Islam but you seem to be quite knowledgeable to the subject so maybe you can let us know what they believe .

Putting everyone in a box called racist or far right and then attributing views to them from every racist or far right group in history is ridiculous. 

Of course they are different people. They hold the same xenophobic/racist views though. Would you argue that a Communist from the 30’s held fundamentally different views from a Communist today. One of the defining features of the far right is its hatred of Jews/Muslims/Selective Foreigners.

The people  you have previously criticised  me for attacking here make their views about these people very clear. 

[hypochondriac]

1 minute ago, sadoldgit said:

Of course they are different people. They hold the same xenophobic/racist views though. Would you argue that a Communist from the 30’s held fundamentally different views from a Communist today. One of the defining features of the far right is its hatred of Jews/Muslims/Selective Foreigners.

The people  you have previously criticised  me for attacking here make their views about these people very clear. 

I've got absolutely no idea I'd have to ask them. How do you know they hold the same racist views? It seems to me that there views are somewhat different, particularly because as you say they are seemingly in support of Israel. 

Where have the people who attended this rally made their views about Jews very clear? Like I say I haven't looked into it but commentators on twitter seemed to suggest that the rally at the weekend was to protest two tier policing.

[sadoldgit]

1 hour ago, hypochondriac said:

Extremist far left policies are appaling and have led to much misery ,death and impoverishment around the world. Hopefully we can all agree on that.

Socialism is dangerous? Do you still believe that?

I have said many times on here that I don’t think extremist views on either side, right or left, are helpful. The issue we have in the UK (and many other countries in the West) is that we are far more affected by those with a far right agenda. 
 

 

[hypochondriac]

8 minutes ago, sadoldgit said:

Socialism is dangerous? Do you still believe that?

I have said many times on here that I don’t think extremist views on either side, right or left, are helpful. The issue we have in the UK (and many other countries in the West) is that we are far more affected by those with a far right agenda. 
 

 

Glad we can have a rare moment of agreement that far left policies and views are appaling.

[Weston Super Saint]

14 minutes ago, sadoldgit said:

. One of the defining features of the far right is its hatred of Jews.

 

People like you?

[hypochondriac]

15 minutes ago, Weston Super Saint said:

People like you?

What if you consider yourself far right but really like the Jews? Are you a different type of far right ?

[whelk]

21 minutes ago, hypochondriac said:

What if you consider yourself far right but really like the Jews? Are you a different type of far right ?

Can you have a far right Jew? Think we know the answer

[Weston Super Saint]

26 minutes ago, whelk said:

Can you have a far right Jew? Think we know the answer

Yes. But those guys are hated.

[hypochondriac]

46 minutes ago, whelk said:

Can you have a far right Jew? Think we know the answer

They're depressed because they can't trust themselves and they're self loathing. 

I'm a bit confused though. Soggy has been calling me far right for a few years now yet on this issue I've been quite the Israeli supporter. Is the argument that I've pivoted to support them since October because it gives me a good excuse to hate the Muslims? Seems like a lot of mental gymnastics when I could just hate both at the same time. 

[Weston Super Saint]

19 minutes ago, hypochondriac said:

They're depressed because they can't trust themselves and they're self loathing. 

I'm a bit confused though. Soggy has been calling me far right for a few years now yet on this issue I've been quite the Israeli supporter. Is the argument that I've pivoted to support them since October because it gives me a good excuse to hate the Muslims? Seems like a lot of mental gymnastics when I could just hate both at the same time. 

I think it's more to do with if you disagree with soggy on any topic, then you are Tommy Robinson-Hopkins.

[sadoldgit]

Yet another “precise” strike.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/crggq0jygq6o.amp

The point was made on LBC yesterday that, if the IRA were hiding people in hospitals and schools, there is no way that the British armed forces would shell them and that the public would support the actions if they did. This has happened so often now that it has become the norm. When will the UN finally take action to stop these blatant attacks on innocent, defenceless civilians?

 

Edited June 6 by sadoldgit

[badgerx16]

52 minutes ago, sadoldgit said:

Yet another “precise” strike.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/crggq0jygq6o.amp

The point was made on LBC yesterday that, if the IRA were hiding people in hospitals and schools, there is no way that the British armed forces would shell them and that the public would support the actions if they did. This has happened so often now that it has become the norm. When will the UN finally take action to stop these blatant attacks on innocent, defenceless civilians?

 

The UN is a talking shop that is toothless whilst the Security Council retains it's controlling position. It will do nothing about Gaza in the same way it will not respond to 'blatant attacks on innocent defenceless civilians' in Ukraine, or any of the World's other hotspots.

[whelk]

1 hour ago, sadoldgit said:

Yet another “precise” strike.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/crggq0jygq6o.amp

The point was made on LBC yesterday that, if the IRA were hiding people in hospitals and schools, there is no way that the British armed forces would shell them and that the public would support the actions if they did. This has happened so often now that it has become the norm. When will the UN finally take action to stop these blatant attacks on innocent, defenceless civilians?

 

Yet you blame the Israelis not Hamas’s despicable tactics. You need to wise up to how Israel operate and yours and others’ analogies with the IRA are ridiculous. Shows very little understanding of the situation when you link it

[Lighthouse]

1 hour ago, sadoldgit said:

Yet another “precise” strike.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/crggq0jygq6o.amp

The point was made on LBC yesterday that, if the IRA were hiding people in hospitals and schools, there is no way that the British armed forces would shell them and that the public would support the actions if they did. This has happened so often now that it has become the norm. When will the UN finally take action to stop these blatant attacks on innocent, defenceless civilians?

 

Its a stupid and asinine comparison, I’m not even going to bother explaining why the situation in Gaza is not the same as with the IRA.

[sadoldgit]

7 minutes ago, Lighthouse said:

Its a stupid and asinine comparison, I’m not even going to bother explaining why the situation in Gaza is not the same as with the IRA.

No it isn’t. Yes, the IRA weren’t Hamas, but the principle remains the same. It is the same as the IDF shooting Israelis as well as terrorists when they have been taken hostage. 
 

https://watchlist.org/publications/what-does-international-law-say-about-attacks-on-schools-and-hospitals/#:~:text=An attack against a civilian,effective contribution to military action.

Edited June 6 by sadoldgit

[whelk]

What’s the line…. You can’t argue with a fool

[badgerx16]

Have you posted on the Russia thread condemning the bombing of schools and hopitals in Ukraine ? What about the similar actions of the military in Myanmar ?

 

As for equivalence between HAMAS and the IRA, I don't remember the IRA declaring that they wanted Great Britain erased from the map, and generally, though not always with some of their more radical elements, they gave advanced warning of their bombs to limit civilian casualties.

[sadoldgit]

1 hour ago, badgerx16 said:

Have you posted on the Russia thread condemning the bombing of schools and hopitals in Ukraine ? What about the similar actions of the military in Myanmar ?

 

As for equivalence between HAMAS and the IRA, I don't remember the IRA declaring that they wanted Great Britain erased from the map, and generally, though not always with some of their more radical elements, they gave advanced warning of their bombs to limit civilian casualties.

If this is directed at me I have condemned the invasion of the Ukraine by Russia and the killing of civilians. 
The IRA were a terrorist organisation. Hamas are a terrorist organisation. They both sought/seek autonomy and self determination. The argument stands. You do not deliberately attack targets like schools or hospitals. The Ukraine war has been going on a lot longer than the Israeli attack on Gaza. I expect, if the IDF are still blowing up schools and hospitals in another year’s time I will have given up posting about it.

[badgerx16]

27 minutes ago, sadoldgit said:

If this is directed at me I have condemned the invasion of the Ukraine by Russia and the killing of civilians. 
The IRA were a terrorist organisation. Hamas are a terrorist organisation. They both sought/seek autonomy and self determination. The argument stands. You do not deliberately attack targets like schools or hospitals. The Ukraine war has been going on a lot longer than the Israeli attack on Gaza. I expect, if the IDF are still blowing up schools and hospitals in another year’s time I will have given up posting about it.

Yes it was aimed at you, somehow the quote of your post didn't stick. There is a difference between wanting to fight for autonomy and wanting to erase an entire country.

So for you, how long does a conflict have to endure before you lose interest ?

[Lord Duckhunter]

47 minutes ago, sadoldgit said:

if the IDF are still blowing up schools and hospitals in another year’s time I will have given up posting about it.

As it clearly doesn’t really bother you that much , could you STFU now instead? 

[Lighthouse]

50 minutes ago, sadoldgit said:

If this is directed at me I have condemned the invasion of the Ukraine by Russia and the killing of civilians. 
The IRA were a terrorist organisation. Hamas are a terrorist organisation. They both sought/seek autonomy and self determination. The argument stands. You do not deliberately attack targets like schools or hospitals. The Ukraine war has been going on a lot longer than the Israeli attack on Gaza. I expect, if the IDF are still blowing up schools and hospitals in another year’s time I will have given up posting about it.

You’ve really highlighted to me just how Islamophobic our government is. They sent the RAF to drop all those bombs on ISIS targets in Syria and North Africa but they wouldn’t dare do the same to the Jehovah’s Witnesses who keep bothering people in Taunton.

[sadoldgit]

19 minutes ago, badgerx16 said:

Yes it was aimed at you, somehow the quote of your post didn't stick. There is a difference between wanting to fight for autonomy and wanting to erase an entire country.

So for you, how long does a conflict have to endure before you lose interest ?

I guess we will find out won’t we. Perhaps have a word with the BBC about their frequency of reports from Gaza too?  Not sure why you find it a problem though. 14 women and 9 children killed if you are interested in a “precise” air strike

Oh, and war crimes do not depend what the motivation of the people who commit them are.

 

 

 

 

[sadoldgit]

3 minutes ago, Lighthouse said:

You’ve really highlighted to me just how Islamophobic our government is. They sent the RAF to drop all those bombs on ISIS targets in Syria and North Africa but they wouldn’t dare do the same to the Jehovah’s Witnesses who keep bothering people in Taunton.

Really?

[Lord Duckhunter]

Soggy having a nightmare today 😂😂. I guess this is why he won’t cough up a £5, he can lie doggo for a while now…

[badgerx16]

I

18 minutes ago, sadoldgit said:

I guess we will find out won’t we. Perhaps have a word with the BBC about their frequency of reports from Gaza too?  Not sure why you find it a problem though. 14 women and 9 children killed if you are interested in a “precise” air strike

Oh, and war crimes do not depend what the motivation of the people who commit them are.

You do waffle; what do you think I have a 'problem' with ? I have commented many times on the actions of the IDF, but don't feel the need to keep a running count., nor maintain commentary on here.

As for War Crimes; nobody gave a shit about civilian collateral damage until the late 1800s, indeed even beyond the Napoleonic wars in was accepted that if a town under siege refused a call to surrender then once it's walls were breached, everybody, man woman and child, inside was fair game. The first such 'crime', under modern sensibilities was probably the British invention of concentration camps during the Boer Wars. The concept of prosecuting such actions only really gained traction at Nuremberg, but overall, the vast majority of perpetrators never suffer legal injunction.

 

[whelk]

10 minutes ago, badgerx16 said:

I

You do waffle; what do you think I have a 'problem' with ? I have commented many times on the actions of the IDF, but don't feel the need to keep a running count., nor maintain commentary on here.

As for War Crimes; nobody gave a shit about civilian collateral damage until the late 1800s, indeed even beyond the Napoleonic wars in was accepted that if a town under siege refused a call to surrender then once it's walls were breached, everybody, man woman and child, inside was fair game. The first such 'crime', under modern sensibilities was probably the British invention of concentration camps during the Boer Wars. The concept of prosecuting such actions only really gained traction at Nuremberg, but overall, the vast majority of perpetrators never suffer legal injunction.

 

New usual suspect incoming

[badgerx16]

3 minutes ago, whelk said:

New usual suspect incoming

Already got the t-shirt.

[Turkish]

1 hour ago, Lord Duckhunter said:

Soggy having a nightmare today 😂😂. I guess this is why he won’t cough up a £5, he can lie doggo for a while now…

Unfortunately it looks like he has. Austerity is over, all hail the tories

[Fan The Flames]

1 hour ago, badgerx16 said:

I

You do waffle; what do you think I have a 'problem' with ? I have commented many times on the actions of the IDF, but don't feel the need to keep a running count., nor maintain commentary on here.

As for War Crimes; nobody gave a shit about civilian collateral damage until the late 1800s, indeed even beyond the Napoleonic wars in was accepted that if a town under siege refused a call to surrender then once it's walls were breached, everybody, man woman and child, inside was fair game. The first such 'crime', under modern sensibilities was probably the British invention of concentration camps during the Boer Wars. The concept of prosecuting such actions only really gained traction at Nuremberg, but overall, the vast majority of perpetrators never suffer legal injunction.

Shows the world is on a progressive curve, give it another few hundreds years and what people find acceptable now will be viewed as barbaric. I hope I live to see it.

[sadoldgit]

1 hour ago, badgerx16 said:

I

You do waffle; what do you think I have a 'problem' with ? I have commented many times on the actions of the IDF, but don't feel the need to keep a running count., nor maintain commentary on here.

As for War Crimes; nobody gave a shit about civilian collateral damage until the late 1800s, indeed even beyond the Napoleonic wars in was accepted that if a town under siege refused a call to surrender then once it's walls were breached, everybody, man woman and child, inside was fair game. The first such 'crime', under modern sensibilities was probably the British invention of concentration camps during the Boer Wars. The concept of prosecuting such actions only really gained traction at Nuremberg, but overall, the vast majority of perpetrators never suffer legal injunction.

 

Yes I do waffle. And you are very grumpy. We were shown how precise munitions were in the Iraq war so it comes as a bit of a surprise to see so much “collateral damage” there is now by a well drilled and equipped military machine now. Unless,of course, the IDF are not bothered about precision and are just killing indiscriminately, which I think is more to the point.