Israel

[whelk]

8 minutes ago, egg said:

The Israeli's have been a wee but more effective in their mission to do exactly that. Nonsense to suggest that Hamas should not fight back. 

They clearly havent been trying to kill as many as possible. Would you actually be happy if Hamas triumphed over Israel?

[Lighthouse]

6 minutes ago, egg said:

The Israeli's have been a wee but more effective in their mission to do exactly that. Nonsense to suggest that Hamas should not fight back. 

A few things wrong with that:

1. Firing rockets into civilian areas is not fighting back, it’s attempting to murder civilians.
2. It’s not Israel’s mission to do exactly that. If they just wanted to kill civilians they could have killed hundreds of thousands.
3. No amount of whataboutery means ‘you can’t complain’ when you’re an innocent civilian and people are trying to murder you.

[hypochondriac]

20 minutes ago, Lighthouse said:

A few things wrong with that:

1. Firing rockets into civilian areas is not fighting back, it’s attempting to murder civilians.
2. It’s not Israel’s mission to do exactly that. If they just wanted to kill civilians they could have killed hundreds of thousands.
3. No amount of whataboutery means ‘you can’t complain’ when you’re an innocent civilian and people are trying to murder you.

Indeed. If the aim of Israel was to destroy all Palestinians then why haven't they just murdered them all months ago? They have the means to do so. Why bother putting their own people in harms way unnecessarily? 

[inspectorfrost]

24 minutes ago, hypochondriac said:

Indeed. If the aim of Israel was to destroy all Palestinians then why haven't they just murdered them all months ago? They have the means to do so. Why bother putting their own people in harms way unnecessarily? 

Because they wouldn't have been able to whitewash the resulting carnage, ie in the same way that they're selling 7/10 as the start of this conflict.

Survivors of the Holocaust are calling it out

 

 

[egg]

1 hour ago, whelk said:

They clearly havent been trying to kill as many as possible. Would you actually be happy if Hamas triumphed over Israel?

Ridiculous post/question. 

Hamas need removing. Nobody on here has suggested otherwise. This "war" won't achieve it though, and has only bred it's ideology. 

Israel have consciously killed/maimed thousands of people that they could have avoided killing. That much should be obvious. 

[inspectorfrost]

1 hour ago, whelk said:

They clearly havent been trying to kill as many as possible. Would you actually be happy if Hamas triumphed over Israel?

In the words of the Israeli defence minister - “I have ordered a complete siege on the Gaza Strip. There will be no electricity, no food, no fuel, everything is closed,”. Gaza has nearly 2.4 million people, only 40000 of that is Hamas.

The extremist regimes are on both sides.

 

 

 

[egg]

1 hour ago, Lighthouse said:

A few things wrong with that:

1. Firing rockets into civilian areas is not fighting back, it’s attempting to murder civilians.
2. It’s not Israel’s mission to do exactly that. If they just wanted to kill civilians they could have killed hundreds of thousands.
3. No amount of whataboutery means ‘you can’t complain’ when you’re an innocent civilian and people are trying to murder you.

1. That applies to Israel, and with devastating consequences.

2. Israel have taken out civilians deliberately and consciously. 

3. You're conflating Israel and it's people, but yep, the rocket attacks will be frightening for the Israeli's. 

[aintforever]

1 hour ago, hypochondriac said:

Indeed. If the aim of Israel was to destroy all Palestinians then why haven't they just murdered them all months ago? They have the means to do so.

Israel rely on arms from the U.S. so they have to appear to be trying to stick to international law. It’s a game they have always played long before last October’s atrocity. They do what they can get away with until international pressure gets too much.

[hypochondriac]

27 minutes ago, aintforever said:

Israel rely on arms from the U.S. so they have to appear to be trying to stick to international law. It’s a game they have always played long before last October’s atrocity. They do what they can get away with until international pressure gets too much.

Well that's certainly one theory. 

[whelk]

50 minutes ago, egg said:

Nobody on here has suggested otherwise.

You have indicated repeatedly you have no real sympathy for how Israelis feel about this conflict and clearly sympathise with one side only. Which is fair enough we are all entitled to have differing views but you do seem to think it is a simple good versus bad. 

[whelk]

4 minutes ago, hypochondriac said:

Well that's certainly one theory. 

He’s clever he knows these things whereas others miss it. 

[hypochondriac]

19 minutes ago, whelk said:

He’s clever he knows these things whereas others miss it. 

Those sneaky Jews pretending to stick to international law. They had everyone fooled. 

[hypochondriac]

22 minutes ago, whelk said:

You have indicated repeatedly you have no real sympathy for how Israelis feel about this conflict and clearly sympathise with one side only. Which is fair enough we are all entitled to have differing views but you do seem to think it is a simple good versus bad. 

There's been implicit and explicit examples of some posters on here essentially saying the Israelis were asking for it and that the actions of Hamas are understandable given the provocation they have been under. 

[aintforever]

1 hour ago, hypochondriac said:

Those sneaky Jews pretending to stick to international law. They had everyone fooled. 

And there he goes, our resident half-wit drags race/religion into it again.

[Weston Super Saint]

5 hours ago, aintforever said:

And there he goes, our resident half-wit drags race/religion into it again.

Fancy that!

'Dragging' religion into the Israel - Gaza conflict.  What a fucking idiot, eh?  Everyone knows it has nothing to do with religion 🤣

[Weston Super Saint]

8 hours ago, egg said:

Ridiculous post/question. 

Hamas need removing. Nobody on here has suggested otherwise. This "war" won't achieve it though, and has only bred it's ideology. 

Israel have consciously killed/maimed thousands of people that they could have avoided killing. That much should be obvious. 

How do they get removed then?

[aintforever]

18 minutes ago, Weston Super Saint said:

Fancy that!

'Dragging' religion into the Israel - Gaza conflict.  What a fucking idiot, eh?  Everyone knows it has nothing to do with religion 🤣

Of course it has, but trying to palm off criticism of Israel as antisemitism is just pathetic trolling. Not really surprising for this cess pit of a forum.

[egg]

8 hours ago, whelk said:

You have indicated repeatedly you have no real sympathy for how Israelis feel about this conflict and clearly sympathise with one side only. Which is fair enough we are all entitled to have differing views but you do seem to think it is a simple good versus bad. 

The Israeli peoples suffering post  7/10 is largely insignificant on comparison to the Palestinians. It was also a largely insignificant comparison pre 7/10. Their suffering on 7/10 is well acknowledged. 

[egg]

1 hour ago, Weston Super Saint said:

How do they get removed then?

Not by pummelling Rafah and burning people to death. The only Israeli 'mishap' in that attack was the belief that it'd help them achieve their apparent objective. 

Wars only end after dialogue. 

[egg]

40 minutes ago, aintforever said:

Of course it has, but trying to palm off criticism of Israel as antisemitism is just pathetic trolling. Not really surprising for this cess pit of a forum.

This. 

It's a ridiculous line of attack, but in the context of those making the slur, understandable and meaningless. 

[whelk]

10 minutes ago, egg said:

The Israeli peoples suffering post  7/10 is largely insignificant on comparison to the Palestinians. It was also a largely insignificant comparison pre 7/10. Their suffering on 7/10 is well acknowledged. 

Israel has done nothing comparable to hunting down terrified families and butchering parents in front of their children. You ignore intent and equate 5 civilians being killed from a bombing a Hamas hideout as worse than 4 festival goers being tortured, mutilated and killed with glee, filming and boasting about it.

 

[aintforever]

35 minutes ago, whelk said:

Israel has done nothing comparable to hunting down terrified families and butchering parents in front of their children. You ignore intent and equate 5 civilians being killed from a bombing a Hamas hideout as worse than 4 festival goers being tortured, mutilated and killed with glee, filming and boasting about it.

 

What Hamas did was more barbaric but Israel have caused pain and death to way more innocent people than what Hamas did. 

Anyway it’s not a competition, one is a bunch of terrorists the other is supposed to be a modern western style democracy with one of the World’s most advanced armies. And, importantly, has had the support of our government.

[Weston Super Saint]

47 minutes ago, egg said:

 

Wars only end after dialogue. 

Any sign that Hamas are prepared to enter into dialogue to remove themselves?

[hypochondriac]

2 hours ago, aintforever said:

What Hamas did was more barbaric but Israel have caused pain and death to way more innocent people than what Hamas did. 

Anyway it’s not a competition, one is a bunch of terrorists the other is supposed to be a modern western style democracy with one of the World’s most advanced armies. And, importantly, has had the support of our government.

That's like saying what the Nazis did was more barbaric but the allies have caused more pain and death to way more innocent people than what the Nazis did. Presumably you don't draw some sort of equivalence between the actions of the allies and the Nazis?

Edited May 29 by hypochondriac

[egg]

3 hours ago, whelk said:

Israel has done nothing comparable to hunting down terrified families and butchering parents in front of their children. You ignore intent and equate 5 civilians being killed from a bombing a Hamas hideout as worse than 4 festival goers being tortured, mutilated and killed with glee, filming and boasting about it.

 

You assume the intent. You also ignore history. The Palestinians have done what was done to them in 1948. It doesn't make it right, but please don't deem the Palestinians worse than the Israeli s without proper understanding. 

[egg]

2 hours ago, Weston Super Saint said:

Any sign that Hamas are prepared to enter into dialogue to remove themselves?

Daft even by the standards of this thread. Their wish for independence will never be bombed or negotiated away. Getting that can be agreed. 

[egg]

2 hours ago, hypochondriac said:

That's like saying what the Nazis did was more barbaric but the allies have caused more pain and death to way more innocent people than what the Nazis did. Presumably you don't draw some sort of equivalence between the actions of the allies and the Nazis?

Equivalence nonsense again. Is it too much for you to comprehend that there can be mutual criticism without having to balance subjective scales? 

[hypochondriac]

9 minutes ago, egg said:

Equivalence nonsense again. Is it too much for you to comprehend that there can be mutual criticism without having to balance subjective scales? 

You accuse me of equivalence yet I wasn't the one comparing them! Aintforever was the one trying to minimise the actions of Hamas by talking about Israeli civilian casualties. 

[hypochondriac]

16 minutes ago, egg said:

Daft even by the standards of this thread. Their wish for independence will never be bombed or negotiated away. Getting that can be agreed. 

What about their wish to eliminate all Jews from their land? How will that be agreed? 

[egg]

1 minute ago, hypochondriac said:

What about their wish to eliminate all Jews from their land? How will that be agreed? 

Pointless debating with you hypo as you have such a closed mind. All of the issues in this matter can be resolved by agreement. Indeed, they were in 2000/01 save for a few minor details. That only fell away after a change of Israeli government/attitude, and we only got the hamas charter as a consequence of that. Do some research petal. 

[hypochondriac]

12 minutes ago, egg said:

Pointless debating with you hypo as you have such a closed mind. All of the issues in this matter can be resolved by agreement. Indeed, they were in 2000/01 save for a few minor details. That only fell away after a change of Israeli government/attitude, and we only got the hamas charter as a consequence of that. Do some research petal. 

Bless. Hilarious that you think that's all it takes and that radical Islamists can be foiled in their aims by talking and negotiation. You're like those support workers in London supporting a terrorist who then got murdered for their troubles. I think they should parachute you into Gaza so you can propose a communal drum circle. You'll have it sorted in a day. 

[sadoldgit]

4 hours ago, aintforever said:

Of course it has, but trying to palm off criticism of Israel as antisemitism is just pathetic trolling. Not really surprising for this cess pit of a forum.

Of course they are trolling. They are trying to defend the indefensible, as are the Israeli government . They constantly play the antisemitism card when anyone criticises the actions of Netanyahu and the IDF. This constant use of the events of 7th October to justify destroying Gaza and many of its population shows a complete lack of desire to understand the conflict as a whole. The posts saying that it isn’t that bad because Israel haven’t killed everyone in Gaza are lower than 6th form logic. Again, if any of these people took the trouble to understand what is actually happening here they would know exactly what the Israeli tactics are. They aren’t really interested because they do nothing but repeat the 7th October/antisemitism mantra. Look up the Dahiya Doctrine. The Israeli tactics are to lay waste to the infra structure and target anyone in the way using disproportionate revenge attacks on the civilian population as a way of deterring further attacks on themselves. The trouble is, those tactics only inflame the situation and lead to further violence.

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/article/2024/may/28/attacks-rafah-no-accident-idf-losing-strategy

The usual suspects are not interested in hearing the other side. Their dislike of Muslims is enough to carry on supporting the Israeli tactics no matter what they do or what the cost is. It is quite something to see the way they use the horrific attacks on one day to justify 8 months of destruction and siege on a mostly civilian population. If the situation was reversed and it was Hamas destroying a captive Israeli population in Tel Aviv would they have the same opinions? No, of course they wouldn’t. They would be calling it out every day, and rightly so.

The IDF have raped and killed Palestinian women too, and before 7th October. You don’t hear any recognition about their actions from these posters. It’s all about 7th October for them and the Israeli government. Nothing they have done or do since matters in relation to what happened to them on that day.

As said right at the beginning, nothing happens in a vacuum. What happened on 7th October was the result at what has gone on before. If you are going to point the finger at the Palestinian actions, you have to hold the Israelis to the same standards. The rape of Israeli women by Palestinians is no worse than the rape of Palestinian women by Israelis (unless you hold the view that Palestinians are subhuman as some Israelis do).

Hypochondriac has a long standing dislike of Muslims as evidence by his posts going back years so I don’t expect him to bother to look into what has gone on and why in any depth. Duckhunter had a jolly holiday in Israel therefore is fully informed about all of the nuances of the conflict and understands the Palestinian side of the argument  fully having talked to many Israelis. Weston is just in it for the wind up and Whelk, well Whelk is doing what Whelk does.

Thankfully there are a number of posters on this thread who can see the situation for what it is. This has absolutely nothing to do with antisemitism and everything to do with understanding that extremist ideologies on both sides result in death and destruction to both sides with the Israelis having the military might to cause more proportionately. It is the innocent people on both sides who are having to deal with the consequences.

The ICJ recognise exactly what is going on and that is why they are holding leaders on both sides to account. I think their understanding of the situation is worth far more than a few people trolling on an internet football forum.

Netanyahu, his government and the IDF are just as complicit in this inhumane bloodbath as Hamas, the other Islamic extremist groups and their military.

[hypochondriac]

Jesus I'm not reading that. 

[Weston Super Saint]

1 hour ago, egg said:

Daft even by the standards of this thread. Their wish for independence will never be bombed or negotiated away. Getting that can be agreed. 

Are you still talking about Hamas with this post?

[hypochondriac]

3 minutes ago, Weston Super Saint said:

Are you still talking about Hamas with this post?

Plucky little Hamas freedom fighters battling against the odds for independence one rape at a time. The little terrorist organisation that could. 

The determined David to the Zionist Goliath if you will.

Edited May 29 by hypochondriac

[Weston Super Saint]

44 minutes ago, sadoldgit said:

 

As said right at the beginning, nothing happens in a vacuum. What happened on 7th October was the result at what has gone on before. If you are going to point the finger at the Palestinian actions, you have to hold the Israelis to the same standards. The rape of Israeli women by Palestinians is no worse than the rape of Palestinian women by Israelis (unless you hold the view that Palestinians are subhuman as some Israelis do).

 

Nope.  All this time and he still hasn't got it!

Hamas is not Palestine and Palestine is not Hamas.

Likewise (and I know you won't want to hear this), Israel is not all Jewish and not all Jews are Israeli.

The 'Palestinian actions' that you refer to, aren't 'Palestinian actions', but are in fact Hamas's actions.  There's a difference, but I don't think you've grasped it.

[whelk]

28 minutes ago, hypochondriac said:

Jesus I'm not reading that. 

It is his usual thinly veiled antisemitic bile although I gave up. He has no ability to be concise and repeats ad nauseam 

[hypochondriac]

5 minutes ago, whelk said:

It is his usual thinly veiled antisemitic bile although I gave up. He has no ability to be concise and repeats ad nauseam 

Cheers. Wise choice to skip then. On my phone I had to scroll down about three screens. 

Edited May 29 by hypochondriac

[Lord Duckhunter]

17 hours ago, egg said:

The Israeli's have been a wee but more effective in their mission to do exactly that. Nonsense to suggest that Hamas should not fight back. 

Really? 
 

Clearly by your logic it’s understandable if Isreal fight back, in fact it would be “nonsense “ to say they shouldn’t. 
 

 

 

[hypochondriac]

4 minutes ago, Lord Duckhunter said:

Really? 
 

Clearly by your logic it’s understandable if Isreal fight back, in fact it would be “nonsense “ to say they shouldn’t. 
 

 

 

No they aren't allowed because they have bigger guns. That's how it works. 

[Lord Duckhunter]

Who to believe, Bill Clinton or Soggy? 
 

“And Hamas is really smart. When they decide to rocket Israel, they insinuate themselves in the hospitals, in the schools, in the highly populous areas, and they are smart.”

 

“They said they try to put the Israelis in a position of either not defending themselves or killing innocents. They’re good at it. They’re smart. They’ve been doing this a long time.”

“I killed myself to give the Palestinians a state. I had a deal they turned down that would have given them all of Gaza,” 

[egg]

43 minutes ago, Lord Duckhunter said:

Really? 
 

Clearly by your logic it’s understandable if Isreal fight back, in fact it would be “nonsense “ to say they shouldn’t. 
 

In an apparent war with Israel behaving as they are, you've got to be pretty daft to question why Hamas are fighting back. And yes, an Israeli response to 7/10 was necessary, but what we've had wasn't necessary. 

[egg]

1 hour ago, Weston Super Saint said:

Are you still talking about Hamas with this post?

Bless. 

[egg]

1 hour ago, hypochondriac said:

Jesus I'm not reading that. 

I'm not sure that you read anything that doesn't accord with your pro Israeli perspective. Widen your mind poppet, it'll help.

[hypochondriac]

Just now, egg said:

I'm not sure that you read anything that doesn't accord with your pro Israeli perspective. Widen your mind poppet, it'll help.

I've read virtually everything on here sweetie, even your largely mind-numbing dreck and I still have zero sympathy for Islamist terrorists or think it's perfectly reasonable for them to want to celebrate rape and murder. 

[Draino76]

OK so what team are we on?  Smash Hamas or nuke Palestine?

[Weston Super Saint]

3 minutes ago, egg said:

Bless. 

Isn't an answer.

Are you referring to Hamas or Palestine - genuine question.

[egg]

38 minutes ago, Lord Duckhunter said:

Who to believe, Bill Clinton or Soggy? 
 

 

“And Hamas is really smart. When they decide to rocket Israel, they insinuate themselves in the hospitals, in the schools, in the highly populous areas, and they are smart.”

 

“They said they try to put the Israelis in a position of either not defending themselves or killing innocents. They’re good at it. They’re smart. They’ve been doing this a long time.”

“I killed myself to give the Palestinians a state. I had a deal they turned down that would have given them all of Gaza,” 

I's suggest read the Moratinos non-paper, and the detail of the Taba summit, for a more balanced and accurate perspective. Also look at the Israeli behaviour in the aftermath. 

[hypochondriac]

5 minutes ago, egg said:

In an apparent war with Israel behaving as they are, you've got to be pretty daft to question why Hamas are fighting back. And yes, an Israeli response to 7/10 was necessary, but what we've had wasn't necessary. 

How many dead terrorists is acceptable in your eyes?

[egg]

9 minutes ago, hypochondriac said:

I've read virtually everything on here sweetie, even your largely mind-numbing dreck and I still have zero sympathy for Islamist terrorists or think it's perfectly reasonable for them to want to celebrate rape and murder. 

You're an intolerable, narrow minded thick cunt mate. Do a bit of research on the subject, if you can, and you may gain some actual understanding. 

Edited May 29 by egg