AlexLaw76 Posted 21 May, 2024 Posted 21 May, 2024 On 21/05/2024 at 18:56, badgerx16 said: We have done very bad things in that part of the World since the Crusades. However, this thread is not about the UK, and false equivalence does not provide justification for the actions of the IDF, Israeli Police, Netanyahu's Government, or the illegal settlers. Expand I think the term is, lets get our own house in order before lecture others. 2
Sheaf Saint Posted 21 May, 2024 Posted 21 May, 2024 On 21/05/2024 at 19:00, AlexLaw76 said: I think the term is, lets get our own house in order before lecture others. Expand So what you're saying is that we're not allowed to comment on inhumane actions by the IDF, on a thread specifically about Israel, because the British military has done bad things as well. Amazing logic. 3
AlexLaw76 Posted 21 May, 2024 Posted 21 May, 2024 On 21/05/2024 at 19:46, Sheaf Saint said: So what you're saying is that we're not allowed to comment on inhumane actions by the IDF, on a thread specifically about Israel, because the British military has done bad things as well. Amazing logic. Expand Do what you want…:
Fan The Flames Posted 21 May, 2024 Posted 21 May, 2024 On 21/05/2024 at 12:45, Lord Duckhunter said: The West Bank wasn’t occupied by Isreal until the 60’s. It was occupied by Transjordan, who at the time denied Israel should even exist. In Western Europe a country could co exist with a neighbour shaped like Israel is, but it makes invasion pretty easy when there’s hostile nations all around you. In places the original 1948 border is 9 miles from the sea. It would be so easy for a hostile force to split the country in two. It could be argued that had isreals neighbours lived beside it in peace from 1948 (as most do now), then maybe they would give up the West Bank. But I realise this is crossing into tit for tat territory. There will never be a Palestinian state acceptable to The Palestinians without the West Bank & they’ll never be a Palestinian state with the West Bank acceptable to the Israelis. That’s the long and short of it. Maybe a few generations from now a Northern Irish type fudge will satisfy both sides, but you & me will be long gone by then. Expand You talk about Israelis neighbours as though they are evil states for not wanting Israel to be formed, "who at the time denied Israel should even exist", is a bit dramatic. It was an understandable response to their region being changed forever by a remote organisation. It's easy for you to talk this way with the luxury of time and distance, but it shows a lack of understanding. Telling people how they should feel won't solve the problem. 4
badgerx16 Posted 22 May, 2024 Posted 22 May, 2024 Spain, Ireland, and Norway recognise the existence and legitimacy of the Palestinian state. More likely to follow.
Weston Super Saint Posted 22 May, 2024 Posted 22 May, 2024 On 22/05/2024 at 07:17, badgerx16 said: Spain, Ireland, and Norway recognise the existence and legitimacy of the Palestinian state. More likely to follow. Expand Which is largely irrelevant if Israel don't.
egg Posted 22 May, 2024 Author Posted 22 May, 2024 On 22/05/2024 at 07:25, Weston Super Saint said: Which is largely irrelevant if Israel don't. Expand It's very relevant. States that don't recognise the existence and legitimacy of Israel are seen as pariah states. Israel are already being seen for what they are on many quarters, and major international support at this level for one of their protagonists will doubtless apply pressure. Also, it's a victory for commonsense.
Weston Super Saint Posted 22 May, 2024 Posted 22 May, 2024 (edited) On 22/05/2024 at 07:32, egg said: It's very relevant. States that don't recognise the existence and legitimacy of Israel are seen as pariah states. Israel are already being seen for what they are on many quarters, and major international support at this level for one of their protagonists will doubtless apply pressure. Also, it's a victory for commonsense. Expand And yet, if Israel (and the US) don't recognise Palestine as a state, it is irrelevant. Whilst one 'half' of Palestine is governed by a proscribed terrorist group, I suspect the US will not be changing its mind. Edited 22 May, 2024 by Weston Super Saint
Gloucester Saint Posted 22 May, 2024 Posted 22 May, 2024 (edited) On 22/05/2024 at 07:37, Weston Super Saint said: And yet, if Israel (and the US) don't recognise Palestine as a state, it is irrelevant. Whilst one 'half' of Palestine is governed by a proscribed terrorist group, I suspect the US will not be changing its mind. Expand By Israel, that means Netanyahu at present, but of course this will be the start of putting pressure on Israel to have a more balanced government if it wants to supply of heavy weaponry to continue. General elections in both US and UK later this year could affect that picture and the European elections may see some volatile results. Add in the ICC arrest warrant and the pressure is building on Netanyahu. The Palestinian leaders would certainly need to do their part and cut the cord with Iran and thereby reduce Hamas’s role. As with Northern Ireland, the two sides have got to make the bold moves and accept some compromises- all the international community can do is create the environment for that to be possible but if they won’t then the status quo is not guaranteed either without getting back on a 2-state track. Otherwise the West is writing a blank cheque indefinitely rather than supporting a regional ally to key to our strategic interests with a long-term negotiated plan to bring the conflict to a manageable level. Iran will have a new and presumably equally hardline Conservative PM but it can’t be 100% certain that they will carry on supporting Hamas and Hezbollah to the same extent, especially as sanctions are throttling their economy and unlike Putin they don’t have a cheque from Beijing, although the price for that will be horrendous of course for Russia. Edited 22 May, 2024 by Gloucester Saint 1
egg Posted 22 May, 2024 Author Posted 22 May, 2024 On 22/05/2024 at 07:37, Weston Super Saint said: And yet, if Israel (and the US) don't recognise Palestine as a state, it is irrelevant. Whilst one 'half' of Palestine is governed by a proscribed terrorist group, I suspect the US will not be changing its mind. Expand Where's that been said? The fact is that Israel is recognised. Palestine isn't. It being recognised internationally is a start.
Weston Super Saint Posted 22 May, 2024 Posted 22 May, 2024 On 22/05/2024 at 12:03, egg said: Where's that been said? The fact is that Israel is recognised. Palestine isn't. It being recognised internationally is a start. Expand Before today, 143 of 193 UN member states recognised the state of Palestine. The fact that Spain, Norway and Ireland have now agreed to do the same isn't going to make a blind bit of difference to Israel. Israel isn't relying on any of those countries to fund / provide munitions to its war efforts.
Lord Duckhunter Posted 22 May, 2024 Posted 22 May, 2024 On 21/05/2024 at 20:09, Fan The Flames said: You talk about Israelis neighbours as though they are evil states for not wanting Israel to be formed, "who at the time denied Israel should even exist", is a bit dramatic. It was an understandable response to their region being changed forever by a remote organisation. It's easy for you to talk this way with the luxury of time and distance, but it shows a lack of understanding. Telling people how they should feel won't solve the problem. Expand I’m not telling people how they should feel, their feelings are irrelevant. I was merely stating why Israel occupied the West Bank. Being surrounded by countries who deny your right to exist, means you have to protect yourselves military which is why the Israelis eventually launched the 6 day war. Had the Arab league not attacked Israel the morning after the British mandate ended, things might have been different. Egypt & most other countries now seem to accept Israelis right to exist, so they’ve moved on since 1948. I imagine this is due to Israelis military strategy & strength, rather than some sort of enlightenment.
egg Posted 22 May, 2024 Author Posted 22 May, 2024 On 22/05/2024 at 12:38, Lord Duckhunter said: I’m not telling people how they should feel, their feelings are irrelevant. I was merely stating why Israel occupied the West Bank. Being surrounded by countries who deny your right to exist, means you have to protect yourselves military which is why the Israelis eventually launched the 6 day war. Had the Arab league not attacked Israel the morning after the British mandate ended, things might have been different. Egypt & most other countries now seem to accept Israelis right to exist, so they’ve moved on since 1948. I imagine this is due to Israelis military strategy & strength, rather than some sort of enlightenment. Expand That's irrelevant. Israel were willing to cede almost all of the west bank in 2000/01. That only changed when they had a change of PM and pulled out of the talks. We then got the Hamas charter in the aftermath of that.
Fan The Flames Posted 22 May, 2024 Posted 22 May, 2024 On 22/05/2024 at 12:38, Lord Duckhunter said: I’m not telling people how they should feel, their feelings are irrelevant. I was merely stating why Israel occupied the West Bank. Being surrounded by countries who deny your right to exist, means you have to protect yourselves military which is why the Israelis eventually launched the 6 day war. Had the Arab league not attacked Israel the morning after the British mandate ended, things might have been different. Egypt & most other countries now seem to accept Israelis right to exist, so they’ve moved on since 1948. I imagine this is due to Israelis military strategy & strength, rather than some sort of enlightenment. Expand Of course you are telling people how to feel, you're saying the surrounding countries should just have accepted things gracefully from day one, with not an ounce of empathy for how they might have felt. The west came in did their arrogant bossing people around thing for a bit, then fucked off out of the area leaving it fundamentally changed forever. And you expect the inhabitants to not react, that's why you lack a level of understanding. If that happened in our region and we didn't react you'd be calling them wet, pinkos, son-in-laws. There were people when Israel was form who wanted to take the West Bank and there are people now that want it as part of Israel proper. They would have gone in there at some point. You do know that a country is a political/administrative construct and that you can dislike it and not the people. Isreal is the Milton Keynes Dons of countries. Anyway the only solution to this situation is a two state one. 1
whelk Posted 22 May, 2024 Posted 22 May, 2024 On 22/05/2024 at 19:10, Fan The Flames said: Isreal is the Milton Keynes Dons of countries Expand Fucking hell. What a cunt
Fan The Flames Posted 22 May, 2024 Posted 22 May, 2024 On 22/05/2024 at 19:13, whelk said: Fucking hell. What a cunt Expand Seriously, you've got a problem mate.
whelk Posted 22 May, 2024 Posted 22 May, 2024 On 22/05/2024 at 19:34, Fan The Flames said: Seriously, you've got a problem mate. Expand Thanks for the advice mate
Weston Super Saint Posted 23 May, 2024 Posted 23 May, 2024 On 22/05/2024 at 19:10, Fan The Flames said: Anyway the only solution to this situation is a two state one. Expand Horseshit. There is a 'one state' solution as well. Just because you don't like it / don't want to entertain it, doesn't mean it's not an option.
sadoldgit Posted 23 May, 2024 Posted 23 May, 2024 On 22/05/2024 at 07:17, badgerx16 said: Spain, Ireland, and Norway recognise the existence and legitimacy of the Palestinian state. More likely to follow. Expand It seems a no brainer to recognise the Palestinian state and their right to self determination as Israel has it. Why should it be used as a carrot to encourage Palestine to a negotiated settlement when they are not on a level playing field with Israel? What carrot is being dangled in front of Israel to work towards a negotiated peace settlement? https://apnews.com/article/israel-hamas-war-palestinian-state-recognition-what-to-know-ed18d4cc50b20c8238e0de0068080eb0 The idea that this somehow rewards terrorism is a bit rich when you consider the actions of the Israelis when they used terrorism and military force to get what they wanted. Be it a two state solution or not (and it seems that the two state solution is favoured by many) both sides should be sitting at the negotiating table with equal footing. The Palestinians are not some sub human race who need to be treated as second class citizens (despite what some members of the Israeli government think) and they have every right to be treated as equals in any future negotiations about their own future. 1
Fan The Flames Posted 23 May, 2024 Posted 23 May, 2024 On 23/05/2024 at 06:55, Weston Super Saint said: Horseshit. There is a 'one state' solution as well. Just because you don't like it / don't want to entertain it, doesn't mean it's not an option. Expand Give an outline of how it will work, because I don't believe it can.
Weston Super Saint Posted 23 May, 2024 Posted 23 May, 2024 On 23/05/2024 at 08:00, Fan The Flames said: Give an outline of how it will work, because I don't believe it can. Expand Really? If there is only one state, there is no "opposition". If there is no opposition, there is no war. I'm not sure why that's something you'd struggle with.
badgerx16 Posted 23 May, 2024 Posted 23 May, 2024 On 23/05/2024 at 08:18, Weston Super Saint said: Really? If there is only one state, there is no "opposition". If there is no opposition, there is no war. I'm not sure why that's something you'd struggle with. Expand Presumably you are assuming Israel 'from the river to the sea', in which case where are the former population of the West Bank and Gaza ? If they stay put they would surely be an 'opposition' within, if displaced an opposition without. How do you satisfy their demands for self determination and a voice, or are they not worth consideration?
Weston Super Saint Posted 23 May, 2024 Posted 23 May, 2024 On 23/05/2024 at 08:55, badgerx16 said: Presumably you are assuming Israel 'from the river to the sea', in which case where are the former population of the West Bank and Gaza ? If they stay put they would surely be an 'opposition' within, if displaced an opposition without. How do you satisfy their demands for self determination and a voice, or are they not worth consideration? Expand I'm not assuming anything. I've raised the point that a two state solution is not the 'only answer' and that there is a 'one state' solution as well. I'm also not presuming that Israel will exist 'from the river to the sea' and have not suggested this. How a one state solution is implemented is not for me to decide.
badgerx16 Posted 23 May, 2024 Posted 23 May, 2024 On 23/05/2024 at 10:40, Weston Super Saint said: I'm not assuming anything. I've raised the point that a two state solution is not the 'only answer' and that there is a 'one state' solution as well. I'm also not presuming that Israel will exist 'from the river to the sea' and have not suggested this. How a one state solution is implemented is not for me to decide. Expand I find it highly unlikely that anybody suggesting a 'one state solution' sees it as anything other than being founded on Israel. 2
Weston Super Saint Posted 23 May, 2024 Posted 23 May, 2024 On 23/05/2024 at 10:48, badgerx16 said: I find it highly unlikely that anybody suggesting a 'one state solution' sees it as anything other than being founded on Israel. Expand Historically it has been muted that everyone works together : https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/One-state_solution#:~:text=The "one-state solution",Gaza Strip and Golan Heights. Whilst currently Israel has the upper hand, that doesn't preclude Palestine receiving 'external' help to overthrow Israel. How likely, or not, that is to happen is irrelevant. A couple of tactical suitcase bombs would change the landscape considerably - and let's not pretend that Iran, Syria, Lebanon etc wouldn't be able to get their hands on something like that, or be happy to see them used!
Lord Duckhunter Posted 23 May, 2024 Posted 23 May, 2024 On 23/05/2024 at 07:46, sadoldgit said: The Palestinians are not some sub human race who need to be treated as second class citizens (despite what some members of the Israeli government think Expand Some Arab countries clearly think they are, this is what Jordan’s King Abdullah said , “No refugees in Jordan, no refugees in Egypt.” Shocking…
Fan The Flames Posted 23 May, 2024 Posted 23 May, 2024 On 23/05/2024 at 08:18, Weston Super Saint said: Really? If there is only one state, there is no "opposition". If there is no opposition, there is no war. I'm not sure why that's something you'd struggle with. Expand There are a lot of leaps in that statement. So for now I'm still in the 'only way to solve this is a two state solution' camp.
Weston Super Saint Posted 23 May, 2024 Posted 23 May, 2024 On 23/05/2024 at 12:38, Lord Duckhunter said: Some Arab countries clearly think they are, this is what Jordan’s King Abdullah said , “No refugees in Jordan, no refugees in Egypt.” Shocking… Expand Egypt - signed the 1951 refugee convention Jordan - didn't sign the 1951 convention, but did sign a memorandum of understanding in 1998 Therefore, both are legally obliged to accept refugees - odd then that he would say that...
Weston Super Saint Posted 23 May, 2024 Posted 23 May, 2024 On 23/05/2024 at 12:43, Fan The Flames said: There are a lot of leaps in that statement. So for now I'm still in the 'only way to solve this is a two state solution' camp. Expand No worries, if you can't manage the 'leaps' then probably best you just stick to your 'only' solution.
badgerx16 Posted 23 May, 2024 Posted 23 May, 2024 (edited) On 23/05/2024 at 12:38, Lord Duckhunter said: Some Arab countries clearly think they are, this is what Jordan’s King Abdullah said , “No refugees in Jordan, no refugees in Egypt.” Shocking… Expand Said in the context of 'the humanitarian situation in Gaza must be dealt with in Gaza, don't try pushing people out to achieve political aims'. There are estimated to be over 2 million Palestinian refugees in Jordan. Shocking ! Edited 23 May, 2024 by badgerx16 2
Lord Duckhunter Posted 23 May, 2024 Posted 23 May, 2024 On 23/05/2024 at 12:47, badgerx16 said: Said in the context of 'the humanitarian situation in Gaza must be dealt with in Gaza, don't try pushing people out to achieve political aims'. Expand I think you’d have something to say if The Tories refused to help Ukrainian women and children for the same reason.
badgerx16 Posted 23 May, 2024 Posted 23 May, 2024 On 23/05/2024 at 12:51, Lord Duckhunter said: I think you’d have something to say if The Tories refused to help Ukrainian women and children for the same reason. Expand https://www.sapiens.org/culture/palestinian-refugees-exile-displacement-jordan/ 1
Lord Duckhunter Posted 23 May, 2024 Posted 23 May, 2024 On 23/05/2024 at 12:52, badgerx16 said: https://www.sapiens.org/culture/palestinian-refugees-exile-displacement-jordan/ Expand How does that help women & children in Gaza today? Get them out of there, into Egypt or Jordan, & they will be safe. Surely that’s the priority at the moment.
Weston Super Saint Posted 24 May, 2024 Posted 24 May, 2024 The ICJ has ordered Israel to cease its military offensive in the Rafah governate. In other, completely unenforceable rulings, they've also demanded the immediate and unconditional release of all the hostages. I can't see either of those being complied with.
Lighthouse Posted 24 May, 2024 Posted 24 May, 2024 On 23/05/2024 at 13:08, Lord Duckhunter said: How does that help women & children in Gaza today? Get them out of there, into Egypt or Jordan, & they will be safe. Surely that’s the priority at the moment. Expand TBH I’d rather be in Rafah than Katie Price. 3
whelk Posted 24 May, 2024 Posted 24 May, 2024 On 24/05/2024 at 14:27, Lighthouse said: TBH I’d rather be in Rafah than Katie Price. Expand Not a fan but much rather do her than Benitez but each to their own. 1
sadoldgit Posted 24 May, 2024 Posted 24 May, 2024 (edited) It seems that aid workers need to be just as worried about the IDF as Hamas. https://www.aljazeera.com/amp/news/2024/5/24/un-security-council-passes-motion-denouncing-attacks-on-aid-workers Are the UN antisemitic too Ducky? https://amp.cnn.com/cnn/2024/05/24/middleeast/israel-icj-gaza-rafah-south-africa-ruling-intl Edited 24 May, 2024 by sadoldgit Added text
sadoldgit Posted 26 May, 2024 Posted 26 May, 2024 The recognition of Palestine as a state seems crucial in the way forward. Netanyahu needs to recognise that this is not about rewarding terrorism, but finding a way forward to a lasting peace and security for both Israel and Palestine. He also needs to tell the world what his plans are when the fighting stops but seems to be holding off because a continuing military conflict keeps the far right of his government happy whereas they are not interested in giving anything to the Palestinians. An international body aligned with a Palestinian presence would seem to be the way forward for governance of both Gaza and the West Bank as a starting point. https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-middle-east-69059863.amp
AlexLaw76 Posted 26 May, 2024 Posted 26 May, 2024 On 26/05/2024 at 08:09, sadoldgit said: The recognition of Palestine as a state seems crucial in the way forward. Netanyahu needs to recognise that this is not about rewarding terrorism, but finding a way forward to a lasting peace and security for both Israel and Palestine. He also needs to tell the world what his plans are when the fighting stops but seems to be holding off because a continuing military conflict keeps the far right of his government happy whereas they are not interested in giving anything to the Palestinians. An international body aligned with a Palestinian presence would seem to be the way forward for governance of both Gaza and the West Bank as a starting point. https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-middle-east-69059863.amp Expand Hamas or the Palestinians?
badgerx16 Posted 27 May, 2024 Posted 27 May, 2024 https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-middle-east-69052857 ''‘Exterminate the beasts’: How Israeli settlers took revenge for a murder in the West Bank''
sadoldgit Posted 28 May, 2024 Posted 28 May, 2024 (edited) Yet another “tragic mishap” over the weekend in Gaza leaves more women and children dead. Meanwhile another example of how the current Israeli government feel that the rules don’t apply to them. https://amp.theguardian.com/world/article/2024/may/28/israeli-spy-chief-icc-prosecutor-war-crimes-inquiry Edited 28 May, 2024 by sadoldgit
whelk Posted 28 May, 2024 Posted 28 May, 2024 On 28/05/2024 at 09:15, sadoldgit said: Yet another “tragic mishap” over the weekend in Gaza leaves more women and children dead. Meanwhile another example of how the current Israeli government feel that the rules don’t apply to them. https://amp.theguardian.com/world/article/2024/may/28/israeli-spy-chief-icc-prosecutor-war-crimes-inquiry Expand Do the others play by ‘the rules’, you know rocket attacks into Tel Aviv, raping Israeli soldiers?
egg Posted 28 May, 2024 Author Posted 28 May, 2024 On 28/05/2024 at 14:32, whelk said: Do the others play by ‘the rules’, you know rocket attacks into Tel Aviv, raping Israeli soldiers? Expand Can their really be any complaints about Hamas firing off rockets given the attack they're under? It's apparently a war, but their rockets cannot be used on the same breath of what happened on Rafah. That was unforgivable, and I don't buy the "mishap" line. Re the rape tactics, I hadn't appreciated until the other day that it was an Israeli tactic in 1948. There's videos out there of old Israeli men laughing about how their mates took Palestinian girls aside and raped them to the point that they were rag dolls. 7/10 was hideous, and has hallmarks of what happened in 1948. Possibly delayed revenge. Hideous regardless. 1 1
sadoldgit Posted 28 May, 2024 Posted 28 May, 2024 (edited) On 28/05/2024 at 14:32, whelk said: Do the others play by ‘the rules’, you know rocket attacks into Tel Aviv, raping Israeli soldiers? Expand Do you understand the difference between a democratically elected government that aligns itself to the Western values and a prescribed terrorist group? Also, if you read the article you will see that both the Israeli government and Hamas have officials being investigated for alleged war crimes. The difference is that one has its national intelligence agency threatening UN officials to drop the case and that one is the party who present themselves as being on the moral high ground. And for those easily confused, if you are innocent of charges brought against you, why wouldn’t you be confident of proving your case in court rather than going down the route of threatening people to drop the charges? Also for those who believe that the Israelis are the victims - https://www.aljazeera.com/amp/news/2023/5/15/the-nakba-five-palestinian-towns-massacred-75-years-ago Or behave in a morally superior way - https://amp.theguardian.com/world/2024/feb/22/claims-of-israeli-sexual-assault-of-palestinian-women-are-credible-un-panel-says Again for those who believe this started on 7th October, educate yourself about the Safsaf massacre and rape of Palestinians in 1948 - https://english.wafa.ps/page.aspx?id=3cTfB8a110851623663a3cTfB8 Edited 28 May, 2024 by sadoldgit Added text 2
egg Posted 28 May, 2024 Author Posted 28 May, 2024 On 28/05/2024 at 15:27, egg said: Can their really be any complaints about Hamas firing off rockets given the attack they're under? It's apparently a war, but their rockets cannot be used on the same breath of what happened on Rafah. That was unforgivable, and I don't buy the "mishap" line. Re the rape tactics, I hadn't appreciated until the other day that it was an Israeli tactic in 1948. There's videos out there of old Israeli men laughing about how their mates took Palestinian girls aside and raped them to the point that they were rag dolls. 7/10 was hideous, and has hallmarks of what happened in 1948. Possibly delayed revenge. Hideous regardless. Expand Imagine being so thick that you're confused by this. Bless. 2 1
whelk Posted 28 May, 2024 Posted 28 May, 2024 On 28/05/2024 at 16:23, egg said: Imagine being so thick that you're confused by this. Bless. Expand Nice try 1
Weston Super Saint Posted 28 May, 2024 Posted 28 May, 2024 On 28/05/2024 at 16:22, sadoldgit said: Do you understand the difference between a democratically elected government that aligns itself to the Western values and a prescribed terrorist group? Expand Is one elected at the ballot box, while the other written up by a doctor?
badgerx16 Posted 28 May, 2024 Posted 28 May, 2024 On 28/05/2024 at 18:04, Weston Super Saint said: Is one elected at the ballot box, while the other written up by a doctor? Expand That sort of smart Alec reply should be proscribed. 1
Lighthouse Posted 28 May, 2024 Posted 28 May, 2024 On 28/05/2024 at 15:27, egg said: Can their really be any complaints about Hamas firing off rockets given the attack they're under? Expand Yes. Yes you can. That’s a deliberate attempt to fire munitions into populated civilian areas and kill as many people as possible, as they have been doing for many years. If I were an Israeli I’d probably be complaining about people trying to murder me.
egg Posted 28 May, 2024 Author Posted 28 May, 2024 On 28/05/2024 at 18:29, Lighthouse said: Yes. Yes you can. That’s a deliberate attempt to fire munitions into populated civilian areas and kill as many people as possible, as they have been doing for many years. If I were an Israeli I’d probably be complaining about people trying to murder me. Expand The Israeli's have been a wee but more effective in their mission to do exactly that. Nonsense to suggest that Hamas should not fight back. 1
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