Israel

[egg]

4 minutes ago, Weston Super Saint said:

I blame the parents. They should be teaching the kids that throwing stones is dangerous.

You jest, but Israel do too... reprisals include bulldozing or blowing up the houses of the families of people who they feel act against the state of Israel. Imagine getting arrested, and your folks get told to pack and leave in an hour cos they're going to blow their house up. Mental. 

[whelk]

30 minutes ago, egg said:

You jest, but Israel do too... reprisals include bulldozing or blowing up the houses of the families of people who they feel act against the state of Israel. Imagine getting arrested, and your folks get told to pack and leave in an hour cos they're going to blow their house up. Mental. 

Imagine doing something knowing consequences are that you fuck up your family’s lives?

[egg]

12 minutes ago, whelk said:

Imagine doing something knowing consequences are that you fuck up your family’s lives?

Would you advocate that here? Is it acceptable? 

[badgerx16]

17 minutes ago, whelk said:

Imagine doing something knowing consequences are that you fuck up your family’s lives?

So live in fear and don't ever consider resistance to oppression ?

[whelk]

2 minutes ago, badgerx16 said:

So live in fear and don't ever consider resistance to oppression ?

You make suicide bombing sound so noble

[whelk]

7 minutes ago, egg said:

Would you advocate that here? Is it acceptable? 

Not for the person who brought the biscuits to the IRA no. But as said many times people need to know the reality of attacking Israelis. Like the Nazis would kill 10 if one of their soldiers killed. That’s not condoning it but arguably an effective deterrent 

[badgerx16]

5 minutes ago, whelk said:

You make suicide bombing sound so noble

And the IDF make throwing stones a capital offence. Maintain a climate of fear, enforced by unyielding violence, to suppress an occupied civilian population.

Edited May 2 by badgerx16

[whelk]

3 minutes ago, badgerx16 said:

And the IDF make throwing stones a capital offence. Maintain a climate of fear, enforced by unyielding violence, to suppress an occupied civilian population.

I think you may be exaggerating how frequently this is done although I may be wrong. 
from Wikipedia:

House demolition has been used in an on-again-off-again fashion by the Israeli government during the Second Intifada. More than 3,000 homes have been destroyed in this way.^[47] House demolition was used to destroy the family homes of Saleh Abdel Rahim al-Souwi,^[48] perpetrator of the Tel Aviv bus 5 massacre, and Yahya Ayyash,^[49] Hamas's chief bomb maker, known as "the engineer", as well as the perpetrators of the first and second Jerusalem bus 18 massacres, and the Ashkelon bus station bombing.^[50]

 

[badgerx16]

10 minutes ago, whelk said:

I think you may be exaggerating how frequently this is done although I may be wrong. 
from Wikipedia:

House demolition has been used in an on-again-off-again fashion by the Israeli government during the Second Intifada. More than 3,000 homes have been destroyed in this way.^[47] House demolition was used to destroy the family homes of Saleh Abdel Rahim al-Souwi,^[48] perpetrator of the Tel Aviv bus 5 massacre, and Yahya Ayyash,^[49] Hamas's chief bomb maker, known as "the engineer", as well as the perpetrators of the first and second Jerusalem bus 18 massacres, and the Ashkelon bus station bombing.^[50]

 

According to the Israeli Committee Against House Demolitions it is not just the houses of those accused of violent acts, but also those of their friends, family members, and neighbours, sometimes involving entire villages being flattened. One of their reports says that as of 2022, over 55 thousand properties had been affected by Israeli action in this way.

[egg]

1 hour ago, whelk said:

Not for the person who brought the biscuits to the IRA no. But as said many times people need to know the reality of attacking Israelis. Like the Nazis would kill 10 if one of their soldiers killed. That’s not condoning it but arguably an effective deterrent 

Like strict interpretation of Sharia law? The same logic must attach to Jews as well as Muslims, yes? 

[egg]

1 hour ago, whelk said:

I think you may be exaggerating how frequently this is done although I may be wrong. 
from Wikipedia:

House demolition has been used in an on-again-off-again fashion by the Israeli government during the Second Intifada. More than 3,000 homes have been destroyed in this way.^[47] House demolition was used to destroy the family homes of Saleh Abdel Rahim al-Souwi,^[48] perpetrator of the Tel Aviv bus 5 massacre, and Yahya Ayyash,^[49] Hamas's chief bomb maker, known as "the engineer", as well as the perpetrators of the first and second Jerusalem bus 18 massacres, and the Ashkelon bus station bombing.^[50]

 

It's widely used, and however you dress it up, it's a form of collective punishment. In no civilised society should the extended family pay for the crimes of their family members. Punish the guilty only. 

[whelk]

7 minutes ago, egg said:

Like strict interpretation of Sharia law? The same logic must attach to Jews as well as Muslims, yes? 

You sound like SOG. What the fuck has religion got to do with it? All I am doing is explaining it to you. You want to single out Israel as the great evil and wail all you want but the world is not a beautiful place. 

[egg]

33 minutes ago, whelk said:

You sound like SOG. What the fuck has religion got to do with it? All I am doing is explaining it to you. You want to single out Israel as the great evil and wail all you want but the world is not a beautiful place. 

You sound defensive. And evasive. 

You could say that you think that a strict interpretation of Sharia law is an effective deterrent in the same that you consider the Israeli collective punishment an effective deterrent. If that's what you believe. Or you may differentiate. 

[whelk]

5 minutes ago, egg said:

You sound defensive. And evasive. 

You could say that you think that a strict interpretation of Sharia law is an effective deterrent in the same that you consider the Israeli collective punishment an effective deterrent. If that's what you believe. Or you may differentiate. 

Newsflash….Putin’s Russia operate with effective deterrent, Kim Jong Un’s North Korea too. And Saudi Arabia, Iran……

What is your point? 

[egg]

7 hours ago, whelk said:

Newsflash….Putin’s Russia operate with effective deterrent, Kim Jong Un’s North Korea too. And Saudi Arabia, Iran……

What is your point? 

That sounds like a very long winded yes to my initial questions. Not sure why you didn't just respond with 'Yes, Yes'. You've become a right awkward cunt. 

[sadoldgit]

20 hours ago, egg said:

Probably their thinking! 

The bottom line is that the Israelis are allowed to defend themselves in any way they see fit whereas the Palestinians are not.

As for the idea that religion hasn’t got anything to do with this, we are where we are because people take an ancient religious text and use it two thousand years later as evidence that the are entitled to live in certain places. As said, Israeli cabinet ministers are also using biblical references to justify their actions. Ben-Gvir himself quotes the bible in defence of land grabbing in the West Bank. It is beyond naive to say that religion has nothing to do with this ongoing conflict.

[Weston Super Saint]

On 03/05/2024 at 15:48, sadoldgit said:

The bottom line is that the Israelis are allowed to defend themselves in any way they see fit whereas the Palestinians are not.

As for the idea that religion hasn’t got anything to do with this, we are where we are because people take an ancient religious text and use it two thousand years later as evidence that the are entitled to live in certain places. As said, Israeli cabinet ministers are also using biblical references to justify their actions. Ben-Gvir himself quotes the bible in defence of land grabbing in the West Bank. It is beyond naive to say that religion has nothing to do with this ongoing conflict.

I think, in your usual clumsy way, you are saying that religion (two of them, both Muslim and Judaism) are to blame for the conflict.

If you are happy to accept that, then you must also be happy to accept that every single death is the will of Allah and God, for they are both all knowing and all things are pre-ordained.  Man cannot be blamed for carrying out His will.  I, for one, will not be arguing against this as I doth not want to be struck down by a lightning bolt.

[badgerx16]

37 minutes ago, Weston Super Saint said:

I think, in your usual clumsy way, you are saying that religion (two of them, both Muslim and Judaism) are to blame for the conflict.

If you are happy to accept that, then you must also be happy to accept that every single death is the will of Allah and God, for they are both all knowing and all things are pre-ordained.  Man cannot be blamed for carrying out His will.  I, for one, will not be arguing against this as I doth not want to be struck down by a lightning bolt.

A Catholic priest and a CofE vicar were playing golf. The priest hit a perfect shot down the fairway, the vicar sliced badly - "Oh fuck it, missed again," he exclaimed. "Don't be using that language, God will strike you down" warned the priest. On the next hole the vicar miss read his putt and it went wide, "'Fuck it, missed again"'.

"I warn you, God will not be pleased with you"'.

And so it went on, hole after hole, until finally the priest had had enough. He raised his hands to the sky and invoked "Oh lord, throw down your punishment on this sinner and teach him the error of his ways"'. A lightning bolt crashed down and vapourised the priest.

"Fuck it, missed again"' a voice boomed from the clouds.

[sadoldgit]

The “clumsy” Israeli government continue to shut down criticism/scrutiny of their actions.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-middle-east-68961753.amp
 

Meanwhile the butchery of Palestinian civilians is about to kick off again in Rafah despite the growing International pressure to stop.

https://www.aljazeera.com/news/liveblog/2024/5/6/israels-war-on-gaza-live-israel-pounds-rafah-as-truce-talks-stall

[Lighthouse]

If only they could learn to be more like Hamas and their liberal acceptance of pro-Israeli media channels.

[egg]

The state of people laughing at a post about the imminent attack on civilians in Rafah. Behave. 

[sadoldgit]

1 hour ago, Lighthouse said:

If only they could learn to be more like Hamas and their liberal acceptance of pro-Israeli media channels.

If only they could behave like civilised human beings, raise themselves back to some kind of moral high ground and stop targeting innocent women and children.

As for the laughing emojis, those people demonstrate time again again what their values are. Genocide can be okay if it is aimed at the people they don’t like.

[revolution saint]

1 hour ago, Lighthouse said:

If only they could learn to be more like Hamas and their liberal acceptance of pro-Israeli media channels.

Absolutely, just because Hamas are a proscribed terrorist organisation throughout much of the world, it doesn't mean we can't learn a thing or two about media control from them.

[whelk]

58 minutes ago, egg said:

The state of people laughing at a post about the imminent attack on civilians in Rafah. Behave. 

Been said many times and I am sure you understand this, but they are laughing at SOG’s pontificating not finding deaths themselves amusing. Although don’t think the above one warrants one the more he posts about the emojis the more he will get. Law of the playground!

[egg]

53 minutes ago, whelk said:

Been said many times and I am sure you understand this, but they are laughing at SOG’s pontificating not finding deaths themselves amusing. Although don’t think the above one warrants one the more he posts about the emojis the more he will get. Law of the playground!

Pretty stupid behaviour from apparently grown men. Play the post, not the poster. There are subjects fit for juvenile nonsense, and this isn't one of them.

[Lighthouse]

1 hour ago, sadoldgit said:

If only they could behave like civilised human beings, raise themselves back to some kind of moral high ground and stop targeting innocent women and children.

As for the laughing emojis, those people demonstrate time again again what their values are. Genocide can be okay if it is aimed at the people they don’t like.

The problem you have is that you are very persistently outraged by any act of injustice committed by only one side of this conflict. When Iran launched a massive drone and missile strike at Israel, it could have killed thousands of innocent Israel men, women and children. Such a slaughter was only prevented by their own iron dome defence. Your response to such an attack was complete silence, not one word of indignation.

 

You are approaching self-parody levels of bias and umbrage. The equivalent of someone saying, "I’m not racist but look at all these examples of tax fraud and fly tipping committed by only black people!" That’s why you’re attracting laughing emojis.

[egg]

9 minutes ago, Lighthouse said:

The problem you have is that you are very persistently outraged by any act of injustice committed by only one side of this conflict. When Iran launched a massive drone and missile strike at Israel, it could have killed thousands of innocent Israel men, women and children. Such a slaughter was only prevented by their own iron dome defence. Your response to such an attack was complete silence, not one word of indignation.

 

You are approaching self-parody levels of bias and umbrage. The equivalent of someone saying, "I’m not racist but look at all these examples of tax fraud and fly tipping committed by only black people!" That’s why you’re attracting laughing emojis.

The thing is, you and a few others shout bias, but demonstrate a blinkered and clearly biased view.  Hamas are scum, Iran's attack was daft (but signposted such as to allow the defence that we saw), but what prevents anyone from recognising that, and calling out the obviously outrageous behaviour of Israel?

Frankly, you've got to be a proper cunt not to call it out for the disgrace that it is. 

[Turkish]

8 minutes ago, Lighthouse said:

The problem you have is that you are very persistently outraged by any act of injustice committed by only one side of this conflict. When Iran launched a massive drone and missile strike at Israel, it could have killed thousands of innocent Israel men, women and children. Such a slaughter was only prevented by their own iron dome defence. Your response to such an attack was complete silence, not one word of indignation.

 

You are approaching self-parody levels of bias and umbrage. The equivalent of someone saying, "I’m not racist but look at all these examples of tax fraud and fly tipping committed by only black people!" That’s why you’re attracting laughing emojis.

Are you surprised? This has been how it’s been for years with him

he’s a laughing stock, a joke figure across multiple forums. He takes it all so seriously and thumps away at his keyboard regularly making himself look a complete crumpet, disappears,  then returns a few days later preaching on another subject. It’s gone on for years. In the odd occasions he does make a good point it usually ends with a dig or rant about right wing stuff which invalidates anything of sense he does say.
 

I called it ages what a nasty piece of work and hypocrite he is and took a lot of stick for it, now it seems quite a few others have opened their eyes. 

[egg]

Just now, Turkish said:

Are you surprised? This has been how it’s been for years with him

he’s a laughing stock, a joke figure across multiple forums. He takes it all so seriously and thumps away at his keyboard regularly making himself look a complete crumpet, disappears,  then returns a few days later preaching on another subject. It’s gone on for years. In the odd occasions he does make a good point it usually ends with a dig or rant about right wing stuff which invalidates anything of sense he does say.
 

I called it ages what a nasty piece of work and hypocrite he is and took a lot of stick for it, now it seems quite a few others have opened their eyes. 

Where's his hypocrisy on this thread Del?

What's "nasty" about not liking what's going on in Gaza? 

 

[Weston Super Saint]

7 minutes ago, egg said:

Where's his hypocrisy on this thread Del?

What's "nasty" about not liking what's going on in Gaza? 

 

His hypocrisy focuses only on Israel's actions as Lighthouse pointed out.

I'm fairly certain every other person on this thread thinks both sides are mental, but can understand why each side takes the actions it does.

Soggy just wants to preach to everyone and claim they aren't as pious as him.

[Turkish]

10 minutes ago, egg said:

Where's his hypocrisy on this thread Del?

What's "nasty" about not liking what's going on in Gaza? 

 

As lighthouse said he condemns anything the Israelis do but turns a blind eye to anything done by Hamas, did he mention the Iran attack? I can’t be arsed to check but somehow I doubt it. That’s hypocrisy when he’s almost gleefully posting about how awful Isreal have been 

Edited May 6 by Turkish

[egg]

1 minute ago, Weston Super Saint said:

His hypocrisy focuses only on Israel's actions as Lighthouse pointed out.

I'm fairly certain every other person on this thread thinks both sides are mental, but can understand why each side takes the actions it does.

Soggy just wants to preach to everyone and claim they aren't as pious as him.

There's no hypocrisy in focusing on the actions of Israel on a thread about Israel. He's also been critical of Hamas. 

The thread that SoG posted today that got daft laughing emojis from Jupiter and LD (who, let's be frank, have shown true colours on this thread) was not a "preach" thread. It highlighted the fact that Israel actually want to attack Rafah. It's more than a bit daft to regard SoG's highlighting that as "hypocrisy".

The laughing emojis from Hypo and LD, and lighthouse's little rant, say more about them than SoG's little post does about him. 

The cool kids ain't cool on this one. 

[egg]

7 minutes ago, Turkish said:

As lighthouse said he condemns anything the Israelis do but turns a blind eye to anything done by Hamas, did he mention the Iran attack? I can’t be arsed to check but somehow I doubt it. That’s hypocrisy when he’s almost gleefully posting about how awful Isreal have been 

He hasn't turned a blind eye to the Hamas attack. Nobody has. 

I don't know his views about the Iranian show. Ask him. 

[Turkish]

Just now, egg said:

He hasn't turned a blind eye to the Hamas attack. Nobody has. 

I don't know his views about the Iranian show. Ask him. 

I would if he didn’t have me on ignore 😇😇😇

[egg]

Just now, Turkish said:

I would if he didn’t have me on ignore 😇😇😇

Ha!!

Regardless, the imminent attack on Rafah is mental...nobody deserves criticism for pointing that out. 

[whelk]

6 minutes ago, egg said:

There's no hypocrisy in focusing on the actions of Israel on a thread about Israel. He's also been critical of Hamas. 

The thread that SoG posted today that got daft laughing emojis from Jupiter and LD (who, let's be frank, have shown true colours on this thread) was not a "preach" thread. It highlighted the fact that Israel actually want to attack Rafah. It's more than a bit daft to regard SoG's highlighting that as "hypocrisy".

The laughing emojis from Hypo and LD, and lighthouse's little rant, say more about them than SoG's little post does about him. 

The cool kids ain't cool on this one. 

Just don’t get that people can have a differing view and then make out that are hate filled Islamophobes. So much of the insults are based on implied thoughts. SOG won’t find one post on this thread praising Netanyahu yet he is convinced he is posting against this on some righteous crusade. Twat has form and if you can’t see his MO then I am surprised. And yes I do believe he is anti semitic 

[Weston Super Saint]

1 minute ago, egg said:

Ha!!

Regardless, the imminent attack on Rafah is mental...nobody deserves criticism for pointing that out. 

Odd though that he hasn't mentioned the Hamas rocket attack this weekend - the one that closed the land corridor that had been opened to supply aid and the one that Israel are responding to with the Rafah attack 

The whole region is mental, always has been, most likely always will be.

[egg]

1 minute ago, whelk said:

Just don’t get that people can have a differing view and then make out that are hate filled Islamophobes. So much of the insults are based on implied thoughts. SOG won’t find one post on this thread praising Netanyahu yet he is convinced he is posting against this on some righteous crusade. Twat has form and if you can’t see his MO then I am surprised. And yes I do believe he is anti semitic 

If the hypocrisy dig isn't based on implied thoughts, I'm not sure what it's based on. Feels to be a bit of a reflection from Lighthouse imo, and jumped upon unnecessarily from people bored on a wet b/h.

However you cut it, SoG has called out the behaviour of both sides. That can't be said of all the frequent posters on this thread. That leads me to what I think are reasonable assumptions. 

[whelk]

3 minutes ago, egg said:

However you cut it, SoG has called out the behaviour of both sides.

He was at pains to say IDF were killing Israeli’s on 7/10 and going off to find all manner of bs links. Defend him all you want but don’t make me laugh saying he is balanced. He is desperate to paint one side as responsible.

Edited May 6 by whelk

[egg]

8 minutes ago, Weston Super Saint said:

Odd though that he hasn't mentioned the Hamas rocket attack this weekend - the one that closed the land corridor that had been opened to supply aid and the one that Israel are responding to with the Rafah attack 

The whole region is mental, always has been, most likely always will be.

How many children were killed by that rocket attack? How many hundreds of thousands of people will have to relocate, again, and sleep in tents.

In what is apparently a war, why should Hamas be criticised for firing back at the Israeli army? Bizarre to suggest that they should just lie down. 

[egg]

Just now, whelk said:

He was at pains to say IDF were killing Israeli’s on 7/10 and going of find all manner of bs links. Defend him all you want but don’t make me laugh saying he is balanced. He is desperate to paint one side as responsible.

He's plainly Palestinian leaning, as am I. Doesn't make him a hypocrite and unable to see both perspectives. 

[Weston Super Saint]

Just now, egg said:

How many children were killed by that rocket attack? How many hundreds of thousands of people will have to relocate, again, and sleep in tents.

In what is apparently a war, why should Hamas be criticised for firing back at the Israeli army? Bizarre to suggest that they should just lie down. 

How many children will die because the aid they have been crying out for is now not coming in? The food, the medicine etc that they have been relying on?

[egg]

Just now, Weston Super Saint said:

How many children will die because the aid they have been crying out for is now not coming in? The food, the medicine etc that they have been relying on?

Oh behave. The aid isn't coming in, and hasn't been for months cos Israel won't allow it as part of it's blockade. 

I repeat, should Hamas not fight back?

[whelk]

Just now, egg said:

He's plainly Palestinian leaning, as am I. Doesn't make him a hypocrite and unable to see both perspectives. 

Out of interest do you think there was antisemitism in the Labour Party when Corbyn was leader? SOG thinks it was a figment of Jews imagination. Likes to speak for women too and thinks they should fuck off to their cubicles if a bloke turns up in their changing rooms rather than voice anything other than his ‘liberal’ beliefs.

 

[AlexLaw76]

5 minutes ago, whelk said:

Out of interest do you think there was antisemitism in the Labour Party when Corbyn was leader? SOG thinks it was a figment of Jews imagination. Likes to speak for women too and thinks they should fuck off to their cubicles if a bloke turns up in their changing rooms rather than voice anything other than his ‘liberal’ beliefs.

 

His stance that the BLM riots were "largely peaceful" was quite amusing

[egg]

1 minute ago, whelk said:

Out of interest do you think there was antisemitism in the Labour Party when Corbyn was leader? SOG thinks it was a figment of Jews imagination. Likes to speak for women too and thinks they should fuck off to their cubicles if a bloke turns up in their changing rooms rather than voice anything other than his ‘liberal’ beliefs.

 

I'm not getting into other subjects, or a general SoG debate. This is an Israel thread which I started to address the behaviour of the Israeli government. SoG's views about that are generally sound imo. Other people's, and their behaviour in this thread, less so. 

[Weston Super Saint]

5 minutes ago, egg said:

Oh behave. The aid isn't coming in, and hasn't been for months cos Israel won't allow it as part of it's blockade. 

I repeat, should Hamas not fight back?

Who are they fighting back against?

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-middle-east-68960585

Quote

Three Israeli soldiers have been killed in a Hamas rocket attack near one of the main crossings used to deliver aid into Gaza, Israel has said.

The Kerem Shalom crossing was closed overnight by Israel following the strike.

Attacking the soldiers manning the crossing being used to deliver aid into Gaza isn't 'fighting back'.  It makes no sense to attack an aid corridor!

Fight back against the soldiers in Gaza, on the ground, in tanks, fine, that seems logical.

[egg]

1 minute ago, AlexLaw76 said:

His stance that the BLM riots were "largely peaceful" was quite amusing

Here's a thought, maybe start a SoG thread? 

[Turkish]

lets all remind ourselves that this is the same guy who before all this kicked off in Gaza spent an entire day trying to prove what Jews were, a race, religion in his words “just what exactly” he has a long history on anti Jewish posts and they seem to be continuing on this thread. If he’s not anti semitic he does a very good impression of someone who is. 

[AlexLaw76]

6 minutes ago, egg said:

Here's a thought, maybe start a SoG thread? 

Why don't you, you are talking about him more than anyone it seems