Israel

[buctootim]

 

[sadoldgit]

A person phoned an LBC phone in this morning to say that there had been hardly any support on some social media platforms that were swamped with Tricolours and support for France after the Batalan and other attacks on Paris. The same could be said for the number of Ukraine flags that appeared after the Russian invasion.

The inference was that people didn’t care so much for dead Jews. I don’t think that is the case at all.

All I have seen, heard and read since the weekend is horror and disgust at the massacres.

The difference with this is that both sides of the conflict have been killing each other for decades and this is just one in a very long line of horror stories.

As some of us have been saying, there is no good guy in this situation and both sides are responsible for where we are now. If it was that clear cut I’m sure we would see the Star of David all over Facebook.

The FA have done the right thing for tomorrow night. How can you show support for a nation that at that point will be burying hundreds of innocent people in rubble or blowing them to atoms? The average age in Gaza is 17. You don’t have to be Carol Vorderman to work out that hundreds of victims are and will be children.

[badgerx16]

If you watched the Rory Stewart video posted above then this is the interview on CNN he refererred to;

https://edition.cnn.com/videos/world/2023/10/08/gps-1008-mustafa-barghouti-on-israels-war-on-hamas.cnn

[whelk]

11 minutes ago, sadoldgit said:

A person phoned an LBC phone in this morning to say that there had been hardly any support on some social media platforms that were swamped with Tricolours and support for France after the Batalan and other attacks on Paris. The same could be said for the number of Ukraine flags that appeared after the Russian invasion.

The inference was that people didn’t care so much for dead Jews. I don’t think that is the case at all.

All I have seen, heard and read since the weekend is horror and disgust at the massacres.

The difference with this is that both sides of the conflict have been killing each other for decades and this is just one in a very long line of horror stories.

As some of us have been saying, there is no good guy in this situation and both sides are responsible for where we are now. If it was that clear cut I’m sure we would see the Star of David all over Facebook.

The FA have done the right thing for tomorrow night. How can you show support for a nation that at that point will be burying hundreds of innocent people in rubble or blowing them to atoms? The average age in Gaza is 17. You don’t have to be Carol Vorderman to work out that hundreds of victims are and will be children.

Sanctimonious and clueless. Where would you be without Facebook and LBC phone ins?  Maybe just come out and say you don’t like Jews it might be cathartic..

[Lord Duckhunter]

40 minutes ago, revolution saint said:

You keep asking this. Proportionate response would be to target Hamas not level Gaza, displace 300,000 people and deny them power, food and water. If you think that the current actions by Israel are proportionate and fair (which I can only assume you must do) and the only reasonable response available to them then you’re full of pony.

 

Target Hamas? You do release they build shelters, tunnels amongst the civilian population, they use them as human shields. Unfortunately, you can’t wipe out Hamas without a massive loss of innocent lives. Ultimately, these innocents are dying because Hamas attacked Isreal last Saturday morning, that’s why Gaza is being flattened. There’s also a reason the Egyptian’s aren’t opening up the Rafah crossing for a safe corridor, and that’s because they want to maintain the “peace” and cooperation they have with Isreal. They don’t want these Palestinians living amongst them any more than the Israelis do. 

Israelis stepped back from wiping out Hamas before, they won’t do so again. Unfortunately, thousands of their fellow Palestinians are going to pay the ultimate price, but their “militants” knew that when they went on the rampage.

I was drinking in Tel Aviv, this time last week, & Gaza wasn’t being flattened. Young Israelis were looking forward to a music festival, & Israeli families were enjoying time with their families. That’s all changed this week, and there’s only one group of people responsible for the change, and it’s not the Israeli’s. 
 

 

 

 

[revolution saint]

11 minutes ago, Lord Duckhunter said:

Target Hamas? You do release they build shelters, tunnels amongst the civilian population, they use them as human shields. Unfortunately, you can’t wipe out Hamas without a massive loss of innocent lives. Ultimately, these innocents are dying because Hamas attacked Isreal last Saturday morning, that’s why Gaza is being flattened. There’s also a reason the Egyptian’s aren’t opening up the Rafah crossing for a safe corridor, and that’s because they want to maintain the “peace” and cooperation they have with Isreal. They don’t want these Palestinians living amongst them any more than the Israelis do. 

Israelis stepped back from wiping out Hamas before, they won’t do so again. Unfortunately, thousands of their fellow Palestinians are going to pay the ultimate price, but their “militants” knew that when they went on the rampage.

I was drinking in Tel Aviv, this time last week, & Gaza wasn’t being flattened. Young Israelis were looking forward to a music festival, & Israeli families were enjoying time with their families. That’s all changed this week, and there’s only one group of people responsible for the change, and it’s not the Israeli’s. 
 

 

 

 

Utter pony. By your thinking we should have levelled Dublin when the IRA were conducting mainland bombings. 

[whelk]

Thank fuck Western governments are a bit smarter than the average Saintweb poster

[egg]

56 minutes ago, Lord Duckhunter said:

Target Hamas? You do release they build shelters, tunnels amongst the civilian population, they use them as human shields. Unfortunately, you can’t wipe out Hamas without a massive loss of innocent lives. Ultimately, these innocents are dying because Hamas attacked Isreal last Saturday morning, that’s why Gaza is being flattened. There’s also a reason the Egyptian’s aren’t opening up the Rafah crossing for a safe corridor, and that’s because they want to maintain the “peace” and cooperation they have with Isreal. They don’t want these Palestinians living amongst them any more than the Israelis do. 

Israelis stepped back from wiping out Hamas before, they won’t do so again. Unfortunately, thousands of their fellow Palestinians are going to pay the ultimate price, but their “militants” knew that when they went on the rampage.

I was drinking in Tel Aviv, this time last week, & Gaza wasn’t being flattened. Young Israelis were looking forward to a music festival, & Israeli families were enjoying time with their families. That’s all changed this week, and there’s only one group of people responsible for the change, and it’s not the Israeli’s. 
 

 

 

 

Do you genuinely believe that Israel are attacking Gaza in an attempt to eradicate Hamas? Netanyahu said that they would turn Gaza into an island of rubble. It's an opportunity to destroy the land in Netanyahu's own words. 

Supposing you're correct though, do you believe that Hamas as a movement will disappear after this Israeli action? I think it's pretty obvious that it'll be the opposite. 

[Fan The Flames]

2 hours ago, Lord Duckhunter said:

 

So what proportional action should Isreal have taken. 
 

I keep reading about the response being disproportionate, so what was a proportional response? 
 

Nobody saying Isreal acted disproportionately has answered that. 

Do you think there is a good side and a bad side in the Isreal/Palestine conflict?

[Fan The Flames]

6 minutes ago, egg said:

Do you genuinely believe that Israel are attacking Gaza in an attempt to eradicate Hamas? Netanyahu said that they would turn Gaza into an island of rubble. It's an opportunity to destroy the land in Netanyahu's own words. 

Supposing you're correct though, do you believe that Hamas as a movement will disappear after this Israeli action? I think it's pretty obvious that it'll be the opposite. 

It didn't work with the Taliban even after 20 years of suppression.

[Fan The Flames]

1 hour ago, Lord Duckhunter said:

Target Hamas? You do release they build shelters, tunnels amongst the civilian population, they use them as human shields. Unfortunately, you can’t wipe out Hamas without a massive loss of innocent lives. Ultimately, these innocents are dying because Hamas attacked Isreal last Saturday morning, that’s why Gaza is being flattened. There’s also a reason the Egyptian’s aren’t opening up the Rafah crossing for a safe corridor, and that’s because they want to maintain the “peace” and cooperation they have with Isreal. They don’t want these Palestinians living amongst them any more than the Israelis do. 

Israelis stepped back from wiping out Hamas before, they won’t do so again. Unfortunately, thousands of their fellow Palestinians are going to pay the ultimate price, but their “militants” knew that when they went on the rampage.

I was drinking in Tel Aviv, this time last week, & Gaza wasn’t being flattened. Young Israelis were looking forward to a music festival, & Israeli families were enjoying time with their families. That’s all changed this week, and there’s only one group of people responsible for the change, and it’s not the Israeli’s. 

So some Israelis don't want the Palestinians living amongst them. Now we are getting to the core of the issue.

[Jonnyboy]

22 hours ago, whelk said:

Ahh Jonny boy has woken up as he can attack Jews.

Most of my laugh emoticons on here are induced by seeing yet another person or post parroting what they've read somewhere in the MSM (later to be quietly retracted or debunked a few days later).

You've obviously swallowed the Labour antisemitism scam hook line and sinker. Perhaps you should read Weaponising Antisemitism by Asa Winstanley.

But as for your offensive accusation to my post which didn't even mention Jews, the reason I laughed was that I had just that minute been messaging my Israeli friend my condolences. Do you even have any Jewish friends? Maybe you are Jewish yourself but even then you would know that they are not some monolith who blindly support Israel. Apparently the majority there are very angry with Netanyahu and his government for failing to keep the country safe.

Edited 12 October, 2023 by Jonnyboy
Whelk is a dickhead.

[Jonnyboy]

17 minutes ago, whelk said:

Thank fuck Western governments are a bit smarter than the average Saintweb poster

Those other governments round the world are all thick compared to you right?

 

[Jonnyboy]

44 dead members of the same extended family in Gaza according to reports that are probably more credible than the 40 beheaded babies headline that was round the world in minutes. 

https://www.middleeasteye.net/news/israel-gaza-war-live

Guess all the councils will be lighting up the Palestinian flag on their buildings then? Oh no, they are actually looking at banning that flag completely.

As an aside, anyone remember the Beslan massacre of Russians, including nearly 200 children commited by terrorists? Did we fly Russian flags all around the UK then?

Last of my three posts for the day. Just as well seeing as the cat seems to have got Whelk's typing fingers 🖕

[Lord Duckhunter]

1 hour ago, revolution saint said:

Utter pony. By your thinking we should have levelled Dublin when the IRA were conducting mainland bombings. 

What a ridiculous comparison. The IRA didn’t want to murder every single British person on earth. The IRA accepted the British state’s right to exist & the IRA were prepared to sit down & discuss a peace process.. if you ran every single Jew out of Isreal & handed it to the Palestinian’s these fucking deprived sub humans would still be murdering Jews whenever they could. 

[Fan The Flames]

8 minutes ago, Lord Duckhunter said:

What a ridiculous comparison. The IRA didn’t want to murder every single British person on earth. The IRA accepted the British state’s right to exist & the IRA were prepared to sit down & discuss a peace process.. if you ran every single Jew out of Isreal & handed it to the Palestinian’s these fucking deprived sub humans would still be murdering Jews whenever they could. 

And there we have it the sub-human trope. Your anger betrays you.

[Lord Duckhunter]

36 minutes ago, Fan The Flames said:

So some Israelis don't want the Palestinians living amongst them. Now we are getting to the core of the issue.

I actually wrote “these” Palestinian’s (as in ones that want Isreal wiped out), but don’t let that stop you twisting my words. There’s plenty of Palestinian’s living in Isreal, it’s an incredibly tolerant and diverse society. As tolerant and diverse as any European country I’ve ever visited, and more so than most. Thousands of Gaza citizens used to cross the border & work in Isreal without any problem at all. Perhaps when things are back to normal you should visit it and then you may form a better understanding of the Israeli people, and their attitude towards other religions, races & sexual orientation . You could have visited last week, but can’t this. I wonder whose fault that is, probably The Jews. 

The Egyptians, who could open their border & allow safe passage for women & children out of Gaza, but choose not to. Yet not one of you peaceniks seem to have an issue with this. 

[egg]

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/67085498

Sensible decision on both fronts. 

[whelk]

7 minutes ago, egg said:

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/67085498

Sensible decision on both fronts. 

Really who gives a fuck? They clap at Championships games for earth quake victims. Whole thing is a farce about lights and avatars - meaningless gestures. But guess LBC have loads of phone in material for saps that care about such vacuous guff.

Edited 12 October, 2023 by whelk

[whelk]

13 minutes ago, Fan The Flames said:

And there we have it the sub-human trope. Your anger betrays you.

That is too polite

[Lord Duckhunter]

10 minutes ago, Fan The Flames said:

And there we have it the sub-human trope. Your anger betrays you.

Anyone who doesn’t think Hamas are sub human needs to have a good look in the mirror. What they did on Saturday was sub human and every right minded person should be angry. The fact you don’t seem to think so is telling and tells us a lot about you. 

[aintforever]

Bombing whole neighbourhoods killing innocent women and children is also subhuman.

[egg]

2 minutes ago, whelk said:

Really who gives a fuck? They clap at Championships games for earth quake victims. Whole thing is a farce about lights and avatars - meaningless gestures. But guess LBC have loads of phone in material for saps that care about such vacuous guff.

I like they have recognised that there's two sides in this, have taken a neutral stance. 

Never listened to LBC. I'm guessing it's kind of like GB news but in the radio, in which case I'll give it a wide berth. 

[egg]

6 minutes ago, Lord Duckhunter said:

Anyone who doesn’t think Hamas are sub human needs to have a good look in the mirror. What they did on Saturday was sub human and every right minded person should be angry. The fact you don’t seem to think so is telling and tells us a lot about you. 

Nobody has said that Hamas have done right. Everyone who's posted on here has joined in the condemnation.

But, anyone who cannot see that what Israel are doing in Gaza is wrong, and cannot appreciate that their motives are to destroy Gaza and punish it's people, needs to give their head a fucking massive wobble. 

[whelk]

7 minutes ago, egg said:

I like they have recognised that there's two sides in this, have taken a neutral stance. 

Never listened to LBC. I'm guessing it's kind of like GB news but in the radio, in which case I'll give it a wide berth. 

Was there not two sides to ISIS atrocities?

we all can see what side you are on

 

PS no need to say you condemn HAMAS attacks 

Edited 12 October, 2023 by whelk

[egg]

7 minutes ago, whelk said:

Was there not two sides to ISIS atrocities?

we all can see what side you are on

 

PS no need to say you condemn HAMAS attacks 

This isn't an isis discussion.

This is about Israel/Palestine. For a self proclaimed clever bloke, your inability to look at the whole picture is surprising. Unless of course you prefer not to. 

PS. no need to dictate what people say. 

[badgerx16]

1 hour ago, whelk said:

Thank fuck Western governments are a bit smarter than the average Saintweb poster

Are you an above average or below average Saintsweb poster ?

[badgerx16]

34 minutes ago, whelk said:

Was there not two sides to ISIS atrocities?

 

There were 2 sides to Stalin's terror purges if you want to argue pathetic, childish, irrelevant, and ignorant straw man points.

Edited 12 October, 2023 by badgerx16

[badgerx16]

2 hours ago, whelk said:

Thank fuck Western governments are a bit smarter than the average Saintweb poster

"Ireland's Taoiseach (prime minister) Leo Varadkar has said Israel does not have the right to engage in collective punishment of the Gaza Strip, and has called for restraint from both sides amid the ongoing conflict.

But he warned actions leading to the failure of Gaza's only operational power station could "breach international humanitarian law".

"To me, it amounts to collective punishment. Cutting off power, cutting off fuel supplies and water supplies, that's not the way a respectable democratic state should conduct itself," Varadkar said."

...........................

""So Israel is under threat. They do have a right to defend themselves, but they don't have the right to breach international humanitarian law," he added.

Varadkar also stressed the importance of opening of a humanitarian corridor to allow aid to reach Palestinians."

 

Sounds like he is tune with quite a few on here, so obviously not that smart.

 

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/live/world-middle-east-67073970

Edited 12 October, 2023 by badgerx16

[Anders]

3 hours ago, Lord Duckhunter said:

Target Hamas? You do release they build shelters, tunnels amongst the civilian population, they use them as human shields. Unfortunately, you can’t wipe out Hamas without a massive loss of innocent lives. Ultimately, these innocents are dying because Hamas attacked Isreal last Saturday morning, that’s why Gaza is being flattened. There’s also a reason the Egyptian’s aren’t opening up the Rafah crossing for a safe corridor, and that’s because they want to maintain the “peace” and cooperation they have with Isreal. They don’t want these Palestinians living amongst them any more than the Israelis do. 

Israelis stepped back from wiping out Hamas before, they won’t do so again. Unfortunately, thousands of their fellow Palestinians are going to pay the ultimate price, but their “militants” knew that when they went on the rampage.

I was drinking in Tel Aviv, this time last week, & Gaza wasn’t being flattened. Young Israelis were looking forward to a music festival, & Israeli families were enjoying time with their families. That’s all changed this week, and there’s only one group of people responsible for the change, and it’s not the Israeli’s. 
 

 

 

 

The Rafah crossing was open until Israel bombed it a couple of days ago

[AlexLaw76]

7 hours ago, aintforever said:

Bombing whole neighbourhoods killing innocent women and children is also subhuman.

No other way to get as many Hamas lunatics, unfortunately. 

I mean, if we were attacked like that, we have countless military installations right-in densely populated civilian areas. 

[AlexLaw76]

5 hours ago, Anders said:

The Rafah crossing was open until Israel bombed it a couple of days ago

https://www.reuters.com/world/middle-east/bombardments-hit-area-gaza-sinai-border-crossing-gaza-officials-2023-10-10/

[Fan The Flames]

8 hours ago, Lord Duckhunter said:

Anyone who doesn’t think Hamas are sub human needs to have a good look in the mirror. What they did on Saturday was sub human and every right minded person should be angry. The fact you don’t seem to think so is telling and tells us a lot about you. 

Well if you mean Hamas, say Hamas and not Palestinians or these people. Language matters.

Also where have I not condemned Hamas or been anti-Israeli. Stop making up what you think other people think.

[Lord Duckhunter]

“Egypt, nestled to the southwest of the Gaza Strip, has been in discussions with the United States and other stakeholders to provide vital humanitarian assistance via its border with the troubled region. However, it remains resolute in its opposition to allowing refugees from Gaza to enter its territory.”

 

https://www.moroccoworldnews.com/2023/10/358262/egypt-rejects-safe-corridors-for-gaza-refugees-focusing-on-humanitarian-aid

 

 

Edited 13 October, 2023 by Lord Duckhunter

[whelk]

8 hours ago, egg said:

This isn't an isis discussion.

This is about Israel/Palestine. For a self proclaimed clever bloke, your inability to look at the whole picture is surprising. Unless of course you prefer not to. 

PS. no need to dictate what people say. 

You justify terrorism so it is relevant. You may be more sympathetic to one cause over another

I understand the breeding ground but that isn’t the main point here. The fact that so many want to emphasise this point and then make an equivalence with Israeli response is beyond repugnant. It is a dreadful situation and no winners 

[whelk]

8 hours ago, badgerx16 said:

Are you an above average or below average Saintsweb poster ?

Above obviously 

[whelk]

8 hours ago, badgerx16 said:

There were 2 sides to Stalin's terror purges if you want to argue pathetic, childish, irrelevant, and ignorant straw man points.

Not analogous

[AlexLaw76]

12 minutes ago, Lord Duckhunter said:

“Egypt, nestled to the southwest of the Gaza Strip, has been in discussions with the United States and other stakeholders to provide vital humanitarian assistance via its border with the troubled region. However, it remains resolute in its opposition to allowing refugees from Gaza to enter its territory.”

 

https://www.moroccoworldnews.com/2023/10/358262/egypt-rejects-safe-corridors-for-gaza-refugees-focusing-on-humanitarian-aid

 

 

Being reported on Al Jazeera that Egypt could allow Dual National palestinians across the border, but no one else at this time.

[whelk]

8 hours ago, badgerx16 said:

"Ireland's Taoiseach (prime minister) Leo Varadkar has said Israel does not have the right to engage in collective punishment of the Gaza Strip, and has called for restraint from both sides amid the ongoing conflict.

But he warned actions leading to the failure of Gaza's only operational power station could "breach international humanitarian law".

"To me, it amounts to collective punishment. Cutting off power, cutting off fuel supplies and water supplies, that's not the way a respectable democratic state should conduct itself," Varadkar said."

...........................

""So Israel is under threat. They do have a right to defend themselves, but they don't have the right to breach international humanitarian law," he added.

Varadkar also stressed the importance of opening of a humanitarian corridor to allow aid to reach Palestinians."

 

Sounds like he is tune with quite a few on here, so obviously not that smart.

 

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/live/world-middle-east-67073970

This maybe unfair but I am getting the picture that you are quite the antisemite Badger. 

[Lord Duckhunter]

8 hours ago, egg said:

 

But, anyone who cannot see that what Israel are doing in Gaza is wrong, and cannot appreciate that their motives are to destroy Gaza and punish it's people, needs to give their head a fucking massive wobble. 

Their motives are clearly to destroy Hamas & most probably their supporters . I don’t know whether they want to “punish” ordinary Palestinians who want to live in peace, but I doubt it. I can’t speak for The Government or millions of Israeli’s but I did speak to dozens & dozens on Sat & Sun morning whilst Hamas tried to blow us up, and to a man & women every single one understood the difference between Hamas & ordinary folk. Every single one was sad about the fate that was going to befall these innocents.  However, they were resolute in their views that Hamas had ultimately cost these people their lives,  as it was a consequence of their actions Sat morning. 

[Toadhall Saint]

Spot if ethnic cleansing?

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/live/world-middle-east-67096916

[Turkish]

9 hours ago, egg said:

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/67085498

Sensible decision on both fronts. 

https://www.msn.com/en-gb/news/uknews/fa-failure-to-light-up-wembley-arch-shows-jews-don-t-count/ar-AA1i6OYB
 

hasn’t gone down well with the Jewish community 

[Fan The Flames]

8 hours ago, badgerx16 said:

"Ireland's Taoiseach (prime minister) Leo Varadkar has said Israel does not have the right to engage in collective punishment of the Gaza Strip, and has called for restraint from both sides amid the ongoing conflict.

But he warned actions leading to the failure of Gaza's only operational power station could "breach international humanitarian law".

"To me, it amounts to collective punishment. Cutting off power, cutting off fuel supplies and water supplies, that's not the way a respectable democratic state should conduct itself," Varadkar said."

...........................

""So Israel is under threat. They do have a right to defend themselves, but they don't have the right to breach international humanitarian law," he added.

Varadkar also stressed the importance of opening of a humanitarian corridor to allow aid to reach Palestinians."

 

Sounds like he is tune with quite a few on here, so obviously not that smart.

 

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/live/world-middle-east-67073970

And America, Israel's ally.

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/world-news/2023/10/11/israel-palestine-latest-news-updates-hamas-gaza-day-5-live/

[Fan The Flames]

13 minutes ago, whelk said:

This maybe unfair but I am getting the picture that you are quite the antisemite Badger. 

Shameful.

[whelk]

5 minutes ago, Turkish said:

https://www.msn.com/en-gb/news/uknews/fa-failure-to-light-up-wembley-arch-shows-jews-don-t-count/ar-AA1i6OYB
 

hasn’t gone down well with the Jewish community 

Delighted egg and Sog though

[AlexLaw76]

4 minutes ago, Turkish said:

https://www.msn.com/en-gb/news/uknews/fa-failure-to-light-up-wembley-arch-shows-jews-don-t-count/ar-AA1i6OYB
 

hasn’t gone down well with the Jewish community 

it is very odd. Usually the FA, Gary Linekar, Carol Vorderman and the like, can't wait to tell of their solidarity with certain groups/causes.

[aintforever]

As Israel have already killed more than Hamas in the last few days it's obvious why lighting it up in their colours wouldn't be appropriate.  

The deaths of innocent Palestinians is just as sad as Israelis.

[egg]

28 minutes ago, whelk said:

You justify terrorism so it is relevant. You may be more sympathetic to one cause over another

I understand the breeding ground but that isn’t the main point here. The fact that so many want to emphasise this point and then make an equivalence with Israeli response is beyond repugnant. It is a dreadful situation and no winners 

You're just making stuff up now. Behave.

I'm not sure how someone who is appalled by the Hamas actions is "justifying terrorism". To quote your words to Benji above, you're better than that. Probably. 

I'm not pro the Israeli governments actions. Absolutely not. That does not make me pro Hamas. 

[whelk]

9 minutes ago, Fan The Flames said:

Shameful.

 

[aintforever]

1 minute ago, whelk said:

 

That's not anti-semitic you thick fuck.