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Posted
  On 07/04/2024 at 21:05, whelk said:

Starting to really worry about SOG’s mental health. Having conversations with imaginary people. Fair effort though

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Who are all these people that don't want peace in the middle east that's what I want to know. 

Posted (edited)
  On 07/04/2024 at 19:23, sadoldgit said:

This strange rationale that you have that everyone on the planet is open to criticism apart from Jewish people really is bizarre.

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Where have a said that? 
 

I seriously think you need educating on the difference between “Jewish people” & Isreali people. 
 

If I started discussing Jamaica and started saying “black people” this and “black people” that, I’d quite rightly be called a racist. You seem incapable of understanding what you’re doing wrong, the fact you continue to do it, together with the way you appear to revel in your ignorance, is pretty disturbing imo. 
 

 

Edited by Lord Duckhunter
  • Like 1
Posted
  On 08/04/2024 at 12:39, Lord Duckhunter said:

Where have a said that? 
 

I seriously think you need educating on the difference between “Jewish people” & Isreali people. 
 

If I started discussing Jamaica and started saying “black people” this and “black people” that, I’d quite rightly be called a racist. You seem incapable of understanding what you’re doing wrong, the fact you continue to do it, together with the way you appear to revel in your ignorance, is pretty disturbing imo. 
 

 

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It is clumsy language that is for sure, particularly as many Jewish people also find the actions of Israel repugnant.

The problem is, when a country calls itself a 'Jewish State' some people are bound to associate the race with it and it's actions.

Posted
  On 08/04/2024 at 13:49, aintforever said:

It is clumsy language that is for sure, particularly as many Jewish people also find the actions of Israel repugnant.

The problem is, when a country calls itself a 'Jewish State' some people are bound to associate the race with it and it's actions.

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Ah right, the excuse for overt racism. 

Posted (edited)
  On 08/04/2024 at 12:39, Lord Duckhunter said:

Where have a said that? 
 

I seriously think you need educating on the difference between “Jewish people” & Isreali people. 
 

If I started discussing Jamaica and started saying “black people” this and “black people” that, I’d quite rightly be called a racist. You seem incapable of understanding what you’re doing wrong, the fact you continue to do it, together with the way you appear to revel in your ignorance, is pretty disturbing imo. 
 

 

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When you posted that it was antisemetic to criticise Jews.  You seem to be the one with the problem and can’t help conflating my criticism of Netanyahu, his government (which is the Israeli government) and the actions of the IDF with a perceived idea that I hate Jewish people. I haven’t criticised anyone for their religion or race for that matter, just their conduct.

As for your comment Batman/Delldays, given your posting history it is the height of hypocrisy to accuse someone else of overt racism. Shouldn’t you been trawling the internet looking for more Asian rape gangs?

Edited by sadoldgit
Posted
  On 07/04/2024 at 19:23, sadoldgit said:

9. Because you have a basic hatred of certain parts of humanity along with a small number of other posters on here, it doesn’t follow that everybody else does. Not everyone is a bigot.

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This line epitomises SOG’s problem. Disagrees with someone so makes a wide ranging claim about hatred. I have completely different politics to Duck but can appreciate Tories aren’t of their opinions because they are all the devil incarnate. As said before a simpleton's 6th form view of the world. SOG cannot disagree agreeably has to brand people racists or Nazis. 

  • Like 4
Posted
  On 08/04/2024 at 14:47, whelk said:

This line epitomises SOG’s problem. Disagrees with someone so makes a wide ranging claim about hatred. I have completely different politics to Duck but can appreciate Tories aren’t of their opinions because they are all the devil incarnate. As said before a simpleton's 6th form view of the world. SOG cannot disagree agreeably has to brand people racists or Nazis. 

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Posted (edited)
  On 08/04/2024 at 13:59, aintforever said:

Could be the words of a racist, could just be clumsy language that is why I wrote the 'for sure' bit. I'm not making excuses for anyone.  

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he's been pulled up on his "clumsy language" multiple times by numerous people, yet he continues to use it so it's not like he's totally unaware the words he is using are wrong. If people kept on telling you the words you are using as a minimum wrong and could also be considered racist and offensive, why on earth would you continually use them unless you were very ignorant, very thick or what people say you are?

Edited by Turkish
Posted
  On 21/06/2023 at 09:33, sadoldgit said:

 but given the way that Jewish people have been discriminated against through the ages their treatment of the Palestinians does them no credit. 

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  On 08/04/2024 at 14:00, sadoldgit said:

You seem to be the one with the problem and can’t help conflating my criticism of Netanyahu, his government (which is the Israeli government) and the actions of the IDF with a perceived idea that I hate Jewish people. I haven’t criticised anyone for their religion or race for that matter, just their conduct.

 

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Keep on digging….

Posted (edited)
  On 08/04/2024 at 12:02, Lord Duckhunter said:

The mask slips again.

Bit of advice. It would have been better to have written “Israelis are just as accountable for their actions as everyone else”.

 

 

 

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I mention “Jewish people” specifically because you specifically have said that anyone criticising  “Jewish people” is antisemetic”. It really isn’t hard to understand unless you are being deliberately obtuse. No one is above criticism. So no slipping mask. Just a case of stating the obvious.

*Your exact words were, “I call people who criticise Jews antisemitic”.

 

 

Edited by sadoldgit
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Posted
  On 08/04/2024 at 17:13, sadoldgit said:

I mention “Jewish people” specifically because you specifically have said that anyone criticising  “Jewish people” is antisemetic”. It really isn’t hard to understand unless you are being deliberately obtuse. No one is above criticism. So no slipping mask. Just a case of stating the obvious.

*Your exact words were, “I call people who criticise Jews antisemitic”.

 

 

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Posted
  On 08/04/2024 at 12:21, hypochondriac said:

Who are all these people that don't want peace in the middle east that's what I want to know. 

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Do the Israeli government want peace, they've spent millions on trying to live safely without peace. Do some of the Arab/Muslim states want peace, if it means it loosens their grip on domestic power.

  • Like 1
Posted
  On 09/04/2024 at 07:29, Fan The Flames said:

Do the Israeli government want peace, they've spent millions on trying to live safely without peace. Do some of the Arab/Muslim states want peace, if it means it loosens their grip on domestic power.

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Well I was talking about the mythical people on here that soggy seems to think don't want peace but yes you are correct that the Arab and Muslim states do not want any peace with Israel. Any Jews on that land is intolerable to them.

Posted
  On 09/04/2024 at 08:40, hypochondriac said:

Well I was talking about the mythical people on here that soggy seems to think don't want peace but yes you are correct that the Arab and Muslim states do not want any peace with Israel. Any Jews on that land is intolerable to them.

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Err. What about Israel opposing a Palestinian state? 

Fortunately Australia seem to have sense. Them recognising Palestine as a state may start something meaningful.

https://www.abc.net.au/news/2024-04-09/austalian-government-considers-recognising-state-of-palestine/103687666

  • Like 1
Posted
  On 09/04/2024 at 07:23, Fan The Flames said:

I see the Israelis are saying it's mission accomplished in South Gaza, coincidentally days after the Biden phone call.

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They're not saying that at all. They're saying they're invading Rafah, that a date has been set, and that nobody's gonna stop them. 

Posted
  On 09/04/2024 at 09:20, hypochondriac said:
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Interesting if it's correct that 13k from 32k deaths are Hamas soldiers. Personally I find that very hard to believe. Everything I've read, even on the likes of the BBC, makes it clear that they've attacked innocent civilians throughout without any justification. The argument that the US were even worse in Mosul doesn't let the Israeli's off the hook for their behaviour. 

It also overlooks the weaponising of food, water, medicine, and mass destruction of civilian infrastructure which I would hope we all accept has been happening. 

  • Like 1
Posted
  On 09/04/2024 at 13:26, egg said:

They're not saying that at all. They're saying they're invading Rafah, that a date has been set, and that nobody's gonna stop them. 

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There was an Israeli spokesperson on R4 yesterday morning saying this, I will take a listen back I might have got it completely wrong.

Posted
  On 09/04/2024 at 08:40, hypochondriac said:

Well I was talking about the mythical people on here that soggy seems to think don't want peace but yes you are correct that the Arab and Muslim states do not want any peace with Israel. Any Jews on that land is intolerable to them.

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This is retarded. Which "Arab and Muslim states" have a policy of zero Jews in Palestine?

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Posted
  On 10/04/2024 at 18:16, benjii said:

This is retarded. Which "Arab and Muslim states" have a policy of zero Jews in Palestine?

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Yep. I'm also unclear how it's felt ok to term unspecified countries as "Arab and Muslim states" but not Israel as a "Jewish state". No doubt someone can clear that up. 

Posted
  On 10/04/2024 at 18:16, benjii said:

This is retarded. Which "Arab and Muslim states" have a policy of zero Jews in Palestine?

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Probably quite a few, unfortunately for them Israel’s military is a bit too good to actually enforce such a policy.

Posted
  On 10/04/2024 at 19:09, Lighthouse said:

Probably quite a few, unfortunately for them Israel’s military is a bit too good to actually enforce such a policy.

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Who? Source for their policies? 

Posted
  On 04/04/2024 at 09:01, whelk said:

The comment wasn’t defensive. Quite confident that we are not going to come up with a workable solution on Saintsweb however well meaning the desire for love, peace and harmony.

Some of IDF’s behaviour is horrendous and is doing nothing to help anyone side with them. 
Netanyahu’s govt is unpopular however 7/10 has united Israel’s population largely on supporting Hamas being wiped out.

And yes hearts and minds and all that reduce support but fact is the Palestinians and Hamas’s capability has been fucked now. Israel aren’t a rational diplomatic enemy as the Iranians found out recently in Syria. Don’t fuck with them, they have a siege mentality and 7/10 attacks were an act of folly.

 

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Most of Hamas' senior leadership/capability/support aren't in Palestine.

One potential issue is Iran/Hezbollah/etc/etc. waiting to send the cavalry in. They don't exactly need to start a recruitment campaign for a sizable insurgency.

The US found that one out 20 years ago

 

Posted
  On 11/04/2024 at 09:40, aintforever said:

You do realise that being against the formation of the state of Israel is very different to wanting to get rid of all Jewish people?

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Are you against the formation of Israel?

Posted
  On 11/04/2024 at 09:57, whelk said:

Are you against the formation of Israel?

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I'm not sure that anyone has suggested that they are. It was necessary, and it still is.

I'm more interested in knowing who's in favour of a free Palestinian state alongside Israel. 

  • Like 1
Posted
  On 11/04/2024 at 10:29, egg said:

I'm not sure that anyone has suggested that they are. It was necessary, and it still is.

I'm more interested in knowing who's in favour of a free Palestinian state alongside Israel. 

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I'd be happy with a Palestinian state alongside Israel. Would the Palestinians be happy with that?

Posted (edited)
  On 11/04/2024 at 10:44, hypochondriac said:

I'd be happy with a Palestinian state alongside Israel. Would the Palestinians be happy with that?

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What Badger said. Israel have said that they wouldn't be thou, and the settlement policy highlights their stance sadly.

Edited by egg
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Posted

The saddest thing is that there are vast amounts of Israelis and Palestinians who probably would be quite happy to live alongside each other but can’t because of their extremist nationalistic governments.

Posted
  On 11/04/2024 at 11:20, sadoldgit said:

The saddest thing is that there are vast amounts of Israelis and Palestinians who probably would be quite happy to live alongside each other but can’t because of their extremist nationalistic governments.

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There's a few accounts that many living in Kibbutz Be’eri were quite up for living next to Palestinians. Then a load of them got raped, burnt alive etc. Seems like a pretty naive attitude to have tbh.  

Posted (edited)
  On 11/04/2024 at 11:02, egg said:

What Badger said. Israel have said that they wouldn't be thou, and the settlement policy highlights their stance sadly.

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So your contention is that in those circumastances, a majority of Palestinians would recognise Israel's right to exist? Obviously there are many examples of Hamas members saying the exact opposite. Do you think Hamas are unpopular in Palestine? 

Edited by hypochondriac
Posted
  On 11/04/2024 at 09:40, aintforever said:

You do realise that being against the formation of the state of Israel is very different to wanting to get rid of all Jewish people?

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I’m sure those same states would be happy enough to tolerate Jewish people living on that land. Just so long as they’re a second class ethnic minority, who submit to strict Islamic law and give up on silly Jewish, secular ideas such as voting, women’s rights, gay bars, music festivals, freedom of expression, clothing and apostasy.

Posted
  On 11/04/2024 at 12:07, Lighthouse said:

I’m sure those same states would be happy enough to tolerate Jewish people living on that land. Just so long as they’re a second class ethnic minority, who submit to strict Islamic law and give up on silly Jewish, secular ideas such as voting, women’s rights, gay bars, music festivals, freedom of expression, clothing and apostasy.

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Expect they'd want them paying the jizya too. 

Posted (edited)
  On 11/04/2024 at 12:07, Lighthouse said:

I’m sure those same states would be happy enough to tolerate Jewish people living on that land. Just so long as they’re a second class ethnic minority, who submit to strict Islamic law and give up on silly Jewish, secular ideas such as voting, women’s rights, gay bars, music festivals, freedom of expression, clothing and apostasy.

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Some of the coalition parties in Netanyahu's government are vehemently anti-arab, oppose any form of 2 State solution, are against gay rights, mysogynistic, want the Government and Law to more closely follow the religious texts, and are often described as "facist'.

 

Edited by badgerx16
  • Like 2
Posted
  On 11/04/2024 at 12:07, Lighthouse said:

I’m sure those same states would be happy enough to tolerate Jewish people living on that land. Just so long as they’re a second class ethnic minority, who submit to strict Islamic law and give up on silly Jewish, secular ideas such as voting, women’s rights, gay bars, music festivals, freedom of expression, clothing and apostasy.

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Can you not vote in Malaysia then?

Posted
  On 11/04/2024 at 11:38, hypochondriac said:

So your contention is that in those circumastances, a majority of Palestinians would recognise Israel's right to exist? Obviously there are many examples of Hamas members saying the exact opposite. Do you think Hamas are unpopular in Palestine? 

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You're inability to look at this with balance makes discussion impossible Hypo. Israel do not respect the land that the Palestinians already have and constantly settle it and force Palestinians from their land. They oppose 2 states. If the Palestinians supported 2 states, the fact that the Israeli's don't (and wouldn't based on their form in the west bank), means that sustained peace is impossible

  • Like 1

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