Israel

[Weston Super Saint]

48 minutes ago, Lighthouse said:

Oh, well in that case they should definitely do it. Imagine how stupid they’d make the IDF look if they were all just sat out in the empty desert, having a BBQ, whilst the IDF were blowing up hospitals. They would make Israel look ridiculous in the eyes of the world AND have the added bonus of not dying.

And a nice meal.

[inspectorfrost]

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-middle-east-68722308

 

A good summary

Edited April 3 by inspectorfrost

[inspectorfrost]

7 hours ago, whelk said:

Is your assumption that all Palestinians were peaceful and happy to live side by side the Israelis prior to Netanyahu or the creation of Hamas? There is a reason that Israel react the way they do which seems conveniently ignored. If only they weren’t bombing Gaza, Hezbollah would be laying down their weapons right? Too many have such a simplistic sixth form hippy view of the world. 

 

So why are Israel reacting in the way they are? National security? Fine. They've got every justification to go after Hamas themselves.

The problem is they are doing far more than that, and a lot of it counter-productive.  The US and all of Israel's allies are openly condemning how they are going about the war, millions of Israelis want Netanyahu out and openly protesting against him, IDF soldiers are being videoed cheering whilst they blow up Palestinian schools weeks after the last militant has left the building, the WCK boss is now openly saying that Israel are deliberately targeting aid vehicles. Do you not see that the problem might just go beyond Hamas here?

You don't need to get defensive with 'simplistic hippy' comments, you can do better than that

[Sheaf Saint]

4 hours ago, Lighthouse said:

Drive out into the desert, away from any civilian areas, at any point in the last six months. Aid workers and civilians would be ten miles away from the nearest fight and no innocents need get hurt.

OK sounds like a great plan. Can think of one minor flaw in it though. I'm looking at a map of Gaza and I'm not seeing any desert.

Where exactly did you have in mind? 

[Lord Duckhunter]

1 hour ago, inspectorfrost said:

millions of Israelis want Netanyahu out and openly protesting against him,

Shame it’s the only country in the region where people can openly protest against the Government. 

[badgerx16]

16 minutes ago, Sheaf Saint said:

OK sounds like a great plan. Can think of one minor flaw in it though. I'm looking at a map of Gaza and I'm not seeing any desert.

Where exactly did you have in mind? 

Gaza does mostly border the Negev desert, however that is in Israel.

[Lighthouse]

5 minutes ago, badgerx16 said:

Gaza does mostly border the Negev desert, however that is in Israel.

And Hamas have a very strict, 'do not send armed forces over the border into Israel' policy. 

[egg]

10 hours ago, whelk said:

Is your assumption that all Palestinians were peaceful and happy to live side by side the Israelis prior to Netanyahu or the creation of Hamas? There is a reason that Israel react the way they do which seems conveniently ignored. If only they weren’t bombing Gaza, Hezbollah would be laying down their weapons right? Too many have such a simplistic sixth form hippy view of the world. 

 

That's one view. The alternative approach - is your assumption that all Israeli's were peaceful and happy to live side by side the Palestinians at any point over recent times, and that Hamas was not created as a result of Israeli behaviour towards Palestine and it's people? There is a reason that Palestinians react the way they do which seems conveniently ignored. If only they weren’t resisting, Israel would be pulling down the settlements and not 'arresting' Palestinians en masse and detaining them without charge, right? Too many people have such a simplistic sixth form view of the situation. 

[Fan The Flames]

2 hours ago, Lord Duckhunter said:

Shame it’s the only country in the region where people can openly protest against the Government. 

https://www.amnesty.org/en/latest/news/2019/11/lebanon-protests-explained/

[inspectorfrost]

10 hours ago, Lord Duckhunter said:

Shame it’s the only country in the region where people can openly protest against the Government. 

google "Arab Spring"

[Weston Super Saint]

8 hours ago, egg said:

That's one view. The alternative approach - is your assumption that all Israeli's were peaceful and happy to live side by side the Palestinians at any point over recent times, and that Hamas was not created as a result of Israeli behaviour towards Palestine and it's people? There is a reason that Palestinians react the way they do which seems conveniently ignored. If only they weren’t resisting, Israel would be pulling down the settlements and not 'arresting' Palestinians en masse and detaining them without charge, right? Too many people have such a simplistic sixth form view of the situation. 

Then there's a third view.  One is a declared terrorist organisation, the other one isn't (yet).

[egg]

23 minutes ago, Weston Super Saint said:

Then there's a third view.  One is a declared terrorist organisation, the other one isn't (yet).

To use Whelks terminology, that's a simplistic 6th form view. 

Fortunately some of the leading lights in the legal profession and judiciary etc have a more mature and fact based opinion. Their letter to Rishi is worth a read.

It's here: 

https://acrobat.adobe.com/id/urn:aaid:sc:EU:9e4c3b64-2029-4dfb-b572-c1dc9fb3d7bf

[Weston Super Saint]

2 minutes ago, egg said:

To use Whelks terminology, that's a simplistic 6th form view. 

Fortunately some of the leading lights in the legal profession and judiciary etc have a more mature and fact based opinion. Their letter to Rishi is worth a read.

It's here: 

https://acrobat.adobe.com/id/urn:aaid:sc:EU:9e4c3b64-2029-4dfb-b572-c1dc9fb3d7bf

In my 'simplistic sixth form view', the discussion was about Palestinians, Hamas and Israel living peacefully side by side over recent times - hence my pointing out that one is a terrorist organisation and the other isn't.  I even included the word 'yet' for Israel in a nod to what is happening now.

The letter you posted is from October 2023, so whilst it is relevant for what is happening now, it is completely irrelevant for the previous discussion about how peaceful the living arrangements were in recent times.

All in my simplistic sixth form view, obvs.

[egg]

2 minutes ago, Weston Super Saint said:

In my 'simplistic sixth form view', the discussion was about Palestinians, Hamas and Israel living peacefully side by side over recent times - hence my pointing out that one is a terrorist organisation and the other isn't.  I even included the word 'yet' for Israel in a nod to what is happening now.

The letter you posted is from October 2023, so whilst it is relevant for what is happening now, it is completely irrelevant for the previous discussion about how peaceful the living arrangements were in recent times.

All in my simplistic sixth form view, obvs.

You didn't make your point clear, you just made the very simple point that one group is a terrorist organisation. We all know that's the label they've been given, and all know that at times they behave like a terrorist organisation. You alo know that the situation goes well beyond that, and that pointing that out makes no difference to what's happening on the ground, and ignores the wider picture. If you want to focus on recent times, you have to address and acknowledge the Israeli behaviour, both pre and post 7/10. Alas, there are a few on here unable to do that, and their view of what's happening, and has happened, is somewhat simplistic, naive, and 6th form at best. 

[Weston Super Saint]

3 minutes ago, egg said:

You didn't make your point clear, you just made the very simple point that one group is a terrorist organisation. We all know that's the label they've been given, and all know that at times they behave like a terrorist organisation. You alo know that the situation goes well beyond that, and that pointing that out makes no difference to what's happening on the ground, and ignores the wider picture. If you want to focus on recent times, you have to address and acknowledge the Israeli behaviour, both pre and post 7/10. Alas, there are a few on here unable to do that, and their view of what's happening, and has happened, is somewhat simplistic, naive, and 6th form at best. 

My reply quoted your post - which was discussing recent times (pre 07/10), which I presumed included history dating back to the 70's, not just August 2023.

I assumed my point would have been clear to all on the sixth form debating team!

I've stated many times before that both sides treat each other with disdain and loathing - sadly that is the consequence of religious hatred and intolerance.

[egg]

8 minutes ago, Weston Super Saint said:

My reply quoted your post - which was discussing recent times (pre 07/10), which I presumed included history dating back to the 70's, not just August 2023.

I assumed my point would have been clear to all on the sixth form debating team!

I've stated many times before that both sides treat each other with disdain and loathing - sadly that is the consequence of religious hatred and intolerance.

Doubtless they'll be along later mate. Thankfully some sensible people will likely turn up too. 

[Fan The Flames]

9 minutes ago, Weston Super Saint said:

My reply quoted your post - which was discussing recent times (pre 07/10), which I presumed included history dating back to the 70's, not just August 2023.

I assumed my point would have been clear to all on the sixth form debating team!

I've stated many times before that both sides treat each other with disdain and loathing - sadly that is the consequence of religious hatred and intolerance.

Both sides use extreme violence. Which is accepted or hated by onlookers in different parts of the world. Two heavily entrenched differing world views which isn't solved by saying one is a baddy and the other one isn't.

[Weston Super Saint]

29 minutes ago, Fan The Flames said:

Both sides use extreme violence. Which is accepted or hated by onlookers in different parts of the world. Two heavily entrenched differing world views which isn't solved by saying one is a baddy and the other one isn't.

Luckily, the sixth form debating team have all the solutions sewn up.

[Fan The Flames]

2 minutes ago, Weston Super Saint said:

Luckily, the sixth form debating team have all the solutions sewn up.

Yes they'll sort it out and be back home in time for tea and Dawson's Creek.

[egg]

8 minutes ago, Weston Super Saint said:

Luckily, the sixth form debating team have all the solutions sewn up.

Yeah, free the hostages and eliminate Hamas. Great idea, that'll sort it. Or something. 

[Fan The Flames]

But definitely by not being a soppy hippy.

[egg]

9 minutes ago, Fan The Flames said:

But definitely by not being a soppy hippy.

And definitely not by carrying on as they are. Agreeing the principle of two states is a start. 

[Lighthouse]

1 hour ago, egg said:

.You didn't make your point clear, you just made the very simple point that one group is a terrorist organisation. We all know that's the label they've been given, and all know that at times they behave like a terrorist organisation. You alo know that the situation goes well beyond that, and that pointing that out makes no difference to what's happening on the ground, and ignores the wider picture. If you want to focus on recent times, you have to address and acknowledge the Israeli behaviour, both pre and post 7/10. Alas, there are a few on here unable to do that, and their view of what's happening, and has happened, is somewhat simplistic, naive, and 6th form at best. 

I haven't seen anybody on here defending Israel's behaviour in the West Bank or in the war since 7/10. The most regularly repeated simplistic and naive opinion which does keep popping up on here is the people who still fail to realise that Hamas, Hezbollah, the Iranian government and countless other supporters DO NOT WANT ISRAEL TO EXIST AT ALL. It's nothing to do with the freedom of Palestinians or settlements in the west bank. They're a Jewish state on Arab land and that cannot be allowed, that's the 'wider picture'. The grim reality is that it doesn't matter how many settlements Israel bulldoze or how many war crimes they commit going after Hamas militants, the conflict is going to continue anyway.

[egg]

1 minute ago, Lighthouse said:

I haven't seen anybody on here defending Israel's behaviour in the West Bank or in the war since 7/10. The most regularly repeated simplistic and naive opinion which does keep popping up on here is the people who still fail to realise that Hamas, Hezbollah, the Iranian government and countless other supporters DO NOT WANT ISRAEL TO EXIST AT ALL. It's nothing to do with the freedom of Palestinians or settlements in the west bank. They're a Jewish state on Arab land and that cannot be allowed, that's the 'wider picture'. The grim reality is that it doesn't matter how many settlements Israel bulldoze or how many war crimes they commit going after Hamas militants, the conflict is going to continue anyway.

Israel do not want a Palestinian state. They've confirmed that recently. Their actions in the west bank, settlements etc, make it clear that they seek to erode what the Palestinians have. You, naively, seem to believe that if Hamas change their ways the problem goes away. Two states, as a principle, is a start but ISRAEL DO NOT WANT PALESTINE TO EXIST AT ALL (as we're shouting to get points across, I thought I'd join in). 

 

 

[Lighthouse]

2 minutes ago, egg said:

Israel do not want a Palestinian state. They've confirmed that recently. Their actions in the west bank, settlements etc, make it clear that they seek to erode what the Palestinians have. You, naively, seem to believe that if Hamas change their ways the problem goes away. Two states, as a principle, is a start but ISRAEL DO NOT WANT PALESTINE TO EXIST AT ALL (as we're shouting to get points across, I thought I'd join in). 

Israel have been quite content living between an Egyptian, Lebanese, Syrian and Jordanian state for several decades. It's hard to guage what would happen in the region if, by some miracle, all of the groups I mentioned stopped wanting to exterminate an entire nation. My best guess is that they'd have left the Gaza strip alone and continue to illegally clear settlements in the West Bank. That's just a guess, nobody knows and it's never going to happen.

[whelk]

22 minutes ago, Lighthouse said:

I haven't seen anybody on here defending Israel's behaviour in the West Bank or in the war since 7/10

Suits the sixth formers though. They’re the good guys. SOG’s line of argument which is largely self-righteous drivel.

[whelk]

14 hours ago, inspectorfrost said:

So why are Israel reacting in the way they are? National security? Fine. They've got every justification to go after Hamas themselves.

The problem is they are doing far more than that, and a lot of it counter-productive.  The US and all of Israel's allies are openly condemning how they are going about the war, millions of Israelis want Netanyahu out and openly protesting against him, IDF soldiers are being videoed cheering whilst they blow up Palestinian schools weeks after the last militant has left the building, the WCK boss is now openly saying that Israel are deliberately targeting aid vehicles. Do you not see that the problem might just go beyond Hamas here?

You don't need to get defensive with 'simplistic hippy' comments, you can do better than that

The comment wasn’t defensive. Quite confident that we are not going to come up with a workable solution on Saintsweb however well meaning the desire for love, peace and harmony.

Some of IDF’s behaviour is horrendous and is doing nothing to help anyone side with them. 
Netanyahu’s govt is unpopular however 7/10 has united Israel’s population largely on supporting Hamas being wiped out.

And yes hearts and minds and all that reduce support but fact is the Palestinians and Hamas’s capability has been fucked now. Israel aren’t a rational diplomatic enemy as the Iranians found out recently in Syria. Don’t fuck with them, they have a siege mentality and 7/10 attacks were an act of folly.

 

[rallyboy]

36 minutes ago, Lighthouse said:

I haven't seen anybody on here defending Israel's behaviour 

Several have.

Everyone on here has condemned Hamas and most people grasp the difference between Palestine and Hamas.

Then we are left with the few who have firmly pinned their colours to every action of the IDF and now find themselves having to defend what appear to be war crimes.

 

 

[egg]

10 minutes ago, whelk said:

The comment wasn’t defensive. Quite confident that we are not going to come up with a workable solution on Saintsweb however well meaning the desire for love, peace and harmony.

Some of IDF’s behaviour is horrendous and is doing nothing to help anyone side with them. 
Netanyahu’s govt is unpopular however 7/10 has united Israel’s population largely on supporting Hamas being wiped out.

And yes hearts and minds and all that reduce support but fact is the Palestinians and Hamas’s capability has been fucked now. Israel aren’t a rational diplomatic enemy as the Iranians found out recently in Syria. Don’t fuck with them, they have a siege mentality and 7/10 attacks were an act of folly.

 

Can't disagree with any of that. 

[sadoldgit]

2 hours ago, rallyboy said:

Several have.

Everyone on here has condemned Hamas and most people grasp the difference between Palestine and Hamas.

Then we are left with the few who have firmly pinned their colours to every action of the IDF and now find themselves having to defend what appear to be war crimes.

 

 

They certainly have, you are right.

i don’t know if this has been verified (we know that the Israelis are very distrusting of foreign journalists) but I heard an interesting interview yesterday where it was said that the IDF have certain designated “killing zones” in which, everyone that is killed is designated as Hamas be they innocent women, children, aid workers, journalists etc. I have seen a figure quoted of 9000 Hamas killed in the Gaza operation so far. If this is true, the proportion of dead so far between Hamas and non Hamas since 7th October will be even more disproportionate.

At the beginning of this particular phase of the conflict many Western leaders supported the position of Israel to take defensive action within the confines of International Law. It has been very clear for some time now that Netanyahu and the IDF don’t give two hoots about International Law and the cessation of the provision of arms and munitions is well overdue. It is just appalling that the loss of 30,000 plus innocent Palestinian lives haven’t brought us to this point, but 3 British lives now have.

https://amp.theguardian.com/world/2024/apr/04/israeli-military-likely-knew-identities-of-aid-workers-killed-in-charity-convoy-humanitarian-groups-say

And before the 6th formers kick off again, yes Israel had every right to defend itself against terrorists organisations. They don’t have the right to wage war on the civilian populations of Gaza and the West Bank.

Has Sunak got the balls to do what is unquestionably morally right? Probably not given his distain for any International Laws that cause the more extreme of his party to get an attack of the vapours.

Edited April 4 by sadoldgit

[AlexLaw76]

19 minutes ago, sadoldgit said:

They certainly have, you are right.

i don’t know if this has been verified (we know that the Israelis are very distrusting of foreign journalists) but I heard an interesting interview yesterday where it was said that the IDF have certain designated “killing zones” in which, everyone that is killed is designated as Hamas be they innocent women, children, aid workers, journalists etc. I have seen a figure quoted of 9000 Hamas killed in the Gaza operation so far. If this is true, the proportion of dead so far between Hamas and non Hamas since 7th October will be even more disproportionate.

At the beginning of this particular phase of the conflict many Western leaders supported the position of Israel to take defensive action within the confines of International Law. It has been very clear for some time now that Netanyahu and the IDF don’t give two hoots about International Law and the cessation of the provision of arms and munitions is well overdue. It is just appalling that the loss of 30,000 plus innocent Palestinian lives haven’t brought us to this point, but 3 British lives now have.

And before the 6th formers kick off again, yes Israel had every right to defend itself against terrorists organisations. They don’t have the right to wage war on the civilian populations of Gaza and the West Bank.

Has Sunak got the balls to do what is unquestionably morally right? Probably not given his distain for any International Laws that cause the more extreme of his party to get an attack of the vapours.

If Israel has raged war on the civilian population, why are nearly all of them alive?

[badgerx16]

12 minutes ago, AlexLaw76 said:

If Israel has raged war on the civilian population, why are nearly all of them alive?

To wage war on somebody does not necessarily mean that you wipe them off the face of the Earth. Ther RAF and USAAF bombed the crap out of Germany for nearly three years, but the vast majority of the civilian population survived. What proportion of the Palestinian dead in Gaza do you honestly think were actively fighting for Hamas ?

Edited April 4 by badgerx16

[AlexLaw76]

Just now, badgerx16 said:

To wage war on somebody does not necessarily mean that you wipe them off the face of the Earth. What proportion of the Palestinian dead in Gaza do you honestly think were actively fighting for Hamas ?

Yes. Hamas could always move out of an incredibly densely populated region. Sadly, they wont and probably want the headlines they are seeing.

[badgerx16]

1 minute ago, AlexLaw76 said:

Yes. Hamas could always move out of an incredibly densely populated region. Sadly, they wont and probably want the headlines they are seeing.

You didn't answer the question.

[Lord Duckhunter]

46 minutes ago, badgerx16 said:

What proportion of the Palestinian dead in Gaza do you honestly think were actively fighting for Hamas ?

Actively fighting only? or do you want us to include the population that celebrated 7/10, are helping, supporting and generally sharing the same goals as Hamas? 

[badgerx16]

Just now, Lord Duckhunter said:

Actively fighting only? or do you want us to include the population that celebrated 7/10, are helping, supporting and generally sharing the same goals as Hamas? 

The ones you could legitimately identify as "terrorists", in the way the IDF arew supposed to select their targets.

[Lord Duckhunter]

9 minutes ago, badgerx16 said:

The ones you could legitimately identify as "terrorists", in the way the IDF arew supposed to select their targets.

I guess it depends on your definition of “terrorist”. If you’re celebrating babies being beheaded, birds being raped, innocent people being kidnapped, the elderly being butchered & want Jews wiped off the face of the earth. If you’re allowing terrorists to live amongst you, turn a blind eye to their preparations & believe they are heroes, you deserve what’s coming to you (and I’m not saying all Gazans fall into that category).
 

What % of the Israeli population are celebrating the unfortunate death of these aid workers? Contrast that with the scenes in Gaza after 7/10. 
 

 

 

  
 

 

[badgerx16]

5 minutes ago, Lord Duckhunter said:

I guess it depends on your definition of “terrorist”. If you’re celebrating babies being beheaded, birds being raped, ..,,..

 

You just can't help it.

[sadoldgit]

2 hours ago, badgerx16 said:

You just can't help it.

Of course he can’t, just as he can’t help falling for IDF propaganda. I doubt if we will ever get to the truth of what actually happened by whom on that day but he is happy to swallow anything they say. It is also known that is wasn’t Hamas alone who launched those attacks. There were other Islamic terrorists groups and a number of randoms who joined in.
https://www.lemonde.fr/en/les-decodeurs/article/2024/04/03/40-beheaded-babies-the-itinerary-of-a-rumor-at-the-heart-of-the-information-battle-between-israel-and-hamas_6667274_8.html#

 

https://www.declassifieduk.org/beheaded-babies-how-uk-media-reported-israels-fake-news-as-fact/

https://amp.cnn.com/cnn/2023/10/12/middleeast/israel-hamas-beheading-claims-intl

https://5pillarsuk.com/2024/03/06/united-nations-hamas-rape-report-debunked/

He is also happy to ignore the reports from the Israeli police that the IDF fired on the terrorists and the Israelis indiscriminately causing deaths with tank shells and rockets from Apache helicopters which caused bodies to be dismembered and badly burned. 

I would love to see a proper independent report into what happened that day and since, but given the Israeli reluctance to let any independent journalism from within Gaza and the amount of disinformation constantly spewed out from the IDF, I am not holding my breath.

This explains a lot.

https://www.972mag.com/lavender-ai-israeli-army-gaza/

Edited April 4 by sadoldgit
Added text

[egg]

1 hour ago, badgerx16 said:

You didn't answer the question.

Probably best that he didn't given how obtuse he's been of late. 

[egg]

29 minutes ago, Lord Duckhunter said:

I guess it depends on your definition of “terrorist”. If you’re celebrating babies being beheaded, birds being raped, innocent people being kidnapped, the elderly being butchered & want Jews wiped off the face of the earth. If you’re allowing terrorists to live amongst you, turn a blind eye to their preparations & believe they are heroes, you deserve what’s coming to you (and I’m not saying all Gazans fall into that category).
 

What % of the Israeli population are celebrating the unfortunate death of these aid workers? Contrast that with the scenes in Gaza after 7/10. 
 

 

 

  
 

 

Have you read the letter I linked? 

Re children. It's says "The Commissioner General of UNRWA has described the Israeli military operation in Gaza as “a war on children and their future”, observing that more children have been killed in the last four months in Gaza than have been killed in the last 4 years of wars around the world combined".

Is that any better than the behaviour of Hamas on 7/10? It's certainly on a bigger scale. 

Re degrading behaviour it says "The abuse of Palestinian civilians has touched every sector of society. The UN Special Rapporteur on torture has cited reports of mass detention, ill-treatment and enforced disappearance of Palestinians in Northern Gaza.  Six UN experts have condemned the arbitrary detention, disappearance, deliberate targeting and extrajudicial killing of women and children in Gaza.Your Government is seeking a “full explanation” of allegations of arbitrary detention, torture and humiliation of medical staff from Al Nasser Hospital".

Are the Israeli's any better than Hamas? Again, their actions are on a bigger scale. 

That's the tip of the iceberg. There's the destruction of medical facilities, the use of famine as a weapon, etc etc. 

I'm glad that 600+ leading academics, judges, lawyers, etc, have more about them than a few on this thread. 

 

[whelk]

1 hour ago, sadoldgit said:

There were other Islamic terrorists groups and a number of randoms who joined in.

Some were just on a day out hand gliding and landed to find the IDF shooting up a kibbutz

[whelk]

56 minutes ago, egg said:

have more about them than a few on this thread

Seems a number of posters are using a collective without naming names or putting up links to posts supposedly supporting war crimes etc. 

[benjii]

It's blindingly obvious that Israel's actions are outrageous and unjustifiable.

The history of the region, religious beliefs, the appaling acts and appaling governance of Hamas, who is a terrorist vs. a freedom fighter etc... irrelevant.

What they are doing is outrageous. Their government has numerous disgusting people in it who view this as a great opportunity to further their own supremacist goals and don't care about starving children or bombing aid workers in the process.

I really don't see how anyone who isn't a psychopath can disagree with that. 

[egg]

1 hour ago, whelk said:

Seems a number of posters are using a collective without naming names or putting up links to posts supposedly supporting war crimes etc. 

I've not accused anyone of supporting war crimes. 

[egg]

1 hour ago, benjii said:

It's blindingly obvious that Israel's actions are outrageous and unjustifiable.

The history of the region, religious beliefs, the appaling acts and appaling governance of Hamas, who is a terrorist vs. a freedom fighter etc... irrelevant.

What they are doing is outrageous. Their government has numerous disgusting people in it who view this as a great opportunity to further their own supremacist goals and don't care about starving children or bombing aid workers in the process.

I really don't see how anyone who isn't a psychopath can disagree with that. 

Nutshell. Amen to that. 

[Fan The Flames]

3 hours ago, Lord Duckhunter said:

I guess it depends on your definition of “terrorist”. If you’re celebrating babies being beheaded, birds being raped, innocent people being kidnapped, the elderly being butchered & want Jews wiped off the face of the earth. If you’re allowing terrorists to live amongst you, turn a blind eye to their preparations & believe they are heroes, you deserve what’s coming to you (and I’m not saying all Gazans fall into that category).
 

What % of the Israeli population are celebrating the unfortunate death of these aid workers? Contrast that with the scenes in Gaza after 7/10. 
 

https://www.ohchr.org/en/press-releases/2024/02/israelopt-un-experts-appalled-reported-human-rights-violations-against

[aintforever]

5 hours ago, AlexLaw76 said:

If Israel has raged war on the civilian population, why are nearly all of them alive?

Because they have to appear to be at least trying to not commit war crimes as they need the support of the US.

[rallyboy]

I hadn't realised that the US is bankrolling this whole escapade.

I also didn't realise that Fareham is so involved that their MP has had to fly out to offer full support for any war crimes being committed.

That one has no fucking shame.

[Lord Duckhunter]

21 hours ago, sadoldgit said:

I doubt if we will ever get to the truth of what actually happened by whom on that day but he is happy to swallow anything they say.

Unlike you, I was there that day. I can tell you it wasn’t The IDF testing out their iron dome whilst I sat in a bomb shelter at Ben Gurion Airport.
It was those “freedom fighters” from Hamas trying to blow me & Mrs Duck up. Innocent people trying to enjoy a well deserved holiday. A deliberate  targeting of innocent civilians cheered on and celebrated by their supporters in Gaza.
 

There’s absolutely no doubt who perpetrated those atrocities that day and it’s only anti semites who “doubt” who it was.