Israel

[whelk]

  On 14/02/2024 at 09:20, sadoldgit said:

What I don’t get is that, through his own words, Duckhunter says that anyone who critiques a Jewish person is anti semitic. Lots of people who have criticised the action of the Israelis have been labelled as anti semitic. You can criticise Christians, Sikhs, Buddhists, Hingis etc all you like, but as soon as you question the actions of the Israeli government you get jumped in as being antisemtic. Those who use antisemitism to shut down valid criticisms are the small minded ones. 

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Tbf to Duckhunter he has explained it and given you examples for context. Many of us think Netanyahu is a dangerous bastard and are critics of his right wing government, as are many Jewish Israelis so clearly not an antisemitic opinion.
Saying things like just because you suffered the holocaust doesn’t give you a free hit at the Palestinians clearly is.

[sadoldgit]

  On 14/02/2024 at 09:03, whelk said:

Look at this righteous bullying cunt

https://news.sky.com/story/paul-currie-soho-theatre-apologises-after-jewish-people-were-reportedly-hounded-out-of-comedy-show-13070786

 

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This incident was covered in a phone in on LBC yesterday and a couple of people who were at the show phoned in. It sounds horrendous and isn’t going to do Currie’s career any favours. Sounds like he lost the plot big time.

Back to the Labour problem. I have no idea if Azhar Ali is an antisemite but he does seem to have a good relationship in the past with members of the Jewish community. People will have their own view on what he said. Personally I don’t see a problem with thinking that Netanyahu didn’t have a problem with the attack and used it as an excuse to flatten Gaza. It is an opinion and given the firm evidence we have about how much intel he had before the attack it is not without some traction. It could be completely wrong but accusing him of it does not make you an antisemite. It makes you critical of Netanyahu for his actions and not of his religious standing.

His comments about those in the media using antisemitism to shut down debate and criticism of Israel is also not without foundation. There are Jewish people (and non people) who play the antisemitic card on a regular basis to push back against any negativity directed towards Israel.

Strangely it happens more so against those left of centre. Apparently those on the right of centre are allowed to criticise the Israeli actions without the immediate assumption that their concerns are based on a hatred of Jewish people,

I have been slagged off many times for making the same point despite the fact that many Jewish people feel that antisemitism has been weaponised too.

Just one of many such opinions from a Jewish person.

https://www.jewishvoiceforlabour.org.uk/article/for-the-safety-of-jews-and-palestinians-stop-weaponizing-antisemitism/

[aintforever]

  On 14/02/2024 at 09:39, egg said:

Is telling an Israeli bloke to fuck off anti semitic? 

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Not all Israelis are Jewish so not sure how that in itself can be considered anti-Semitic unless he mentioned the person’s race or religion.

[Lord Duckhunter]

  On 14/02/2024 at 15:49, sadoldgit said:

 

His comments about those in the media using antisemitism to shut down debate and criticism of Israel is also not without foundation. There are Jewish people (and non people) who play the antisemitic card on a regular basis to push back against any negativity directed towards Israel.

 

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People like your self don’t seem to realise where the line is. You constantly defended Corbyn over this (in a period before 7/10 even happened), you tried to make out it was all a media myth then. Yet when the Labour Party was found “responsible for unlawful acts of harassment and discrimination,” following an investigation into anti-Semitism in the party,  Keir Starmer called it a “day of shame” for the party, accepted the EHRC report’s findings in full, and pledged to implement its recommendations. That doesn’t strike me as the media shutting down debate, it’s the Labour Party starting to deal with a serious anti semitic problem within its party.

It is the Labour Party that have kicked him out, not the media. 

It is the Jewish Labour Movement that is calling for anyone at that meeting who didn’t challenge the candidate, to be kicked out of the party, not the media. 
 

The media just report what the bloke said, they’re not shutting down debate, they’re shining a light on people like you and him, and your abhorrent views on Jewish people. 

[Turkish]

  On 14/02/2024 at 15:49, sadoldgit said:

This incident was covered in a phone in on LBC yesterday and a couple of people who were at the show phoned in. It sounds horrendous and isn’t going to do Currie’s career any favours. Sounds like he lost the plot big time.

Back to the Labour problem. I have no idea if Azhar Ali is an antisemite but he does seem to have a good relationship in the past with members of the Jewish community. People will have their own view on what he said. Personally I don’t see a problem with thinking that Netanyahu didn’t have a problem with the attack and used it as an excuse to flatten Gaza. It is an opinion and given the firm evidence we have about how much intel he had before the attack it is not without some traction. It could be completely wrong but accusing him of it does not make you an antisemite. It makes you critical of Netanyahu for his actions and not of his religious standing.

His comments about those in the media using antisemitism to shut down debate and criticism of Israel is also not without foundation. There are Jewish people (and non people) who play the antisemitic card on a regular basis to push back against any negativity directed towards Israel.

Strangely it happens more so against those left of centre. Apparently those on the right of centre are allowed to criticise the Israeli actions without the immediate assumption that their concerns are based on a hatred of Jewish people,

I have been slagged off many times for making the same point despite the fact that many Jewish people feel that antisemitism has been weaponised too.

Just one of many such opinions from a Jewish person.

https://www.jewishvoiceforlabour.org.uk/article/for-the-safety-of-jews-and-palestinians-stop-weaponizing-antisemitism/

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Imagine the melt down you’d have if someone had said “there are black people (and non black people) who play the race card on a regular basis to push back on any negativity directed to black people”

You really are an incredible hypocrite. Have a word with yourself Adolf 

Edited 14 February, 2024 by Turkish

[whelk]

Seems Hamas leader is a bit of a thick cunt

https://news.sky.com/story/yahya-sinwar-hamas-leader-in-gaza-didnt-expect-consequences-of-7-october-attack-to-be-this-dangerous-says-friend-13071788

[buctootim]

  On 14/02/2024 at 23:14, whelk said:

Seems Hamas leader is a bit of a thick cunt

https://news.sky.com/story/yahya-sinwar-hamas-leader-in-gaza-didnt-expect-consequences-of-7-october-attack-to-be-this-dangerous-says-friend-13071788

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Thick or lying, doesnt really make a difference tbf. You can't kill 1,200 civilians, mostly women and children, and not expect massive massive response. Who knew?  

[Weston Super Saint]

  On 14/02/2024 at 15:49, sadoldgit said:

His comments about those in the media using antisemitism to shut down debate and criticism of Israel is also not without foundation. There are Jewish people (and non people) who play the antisemitic card on a regular basis to push back against any negativity directed towards Israel.

 

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It's a curious turn of phrase, but I guess the 'Jewish non people' are the ones that are rounded up, put on trains and taken to the depths of Poland?

[egg]

  On 15/02/2024 at 06:45, buctootim said:

Thick or lying, doesnt really make a difference tbf. You can't kill 1,200 civilians, mostly women and children, and not expect massive massive response. Who knew?  

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Massive, yep, but I'm not sure sure that anyone seriously expected a response on the scale that we've seen/are seeing. They've pretty much destroyed the place. Even Biden has described it as over the top. 

 

 

[whelk]

  On 15/02/2024 at 08:09, egg said:

Massive, yep, but I'm not sure sure that anyone seriously expected a response on the scale that we've seen/are seeing. They've pretty much destroyed the place. Even Biden has described it as over the top. 

 

 

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I pretty much did. As I said previously it is like killing a Mafia Godfathers only son and boasting about it. What do you think woudl happen to you and your family?

 

Edited 15 February, 2024 by whelk

[egg]

  On 15/02/2024 at 08:21, whelk said:

I pretty much did. As I said previously it is like killing a Mafia Godfathers only son and boasting about it. What do you think woudl happen to you and your family?

 

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They've annihilated Gaza, not Hamas. Hamas will still exist whenever Israel decide/are told to stop. 

Did you think they'd cause this much destruction to Gaza? I'm not sure that the international community did. 

[whelk]

  On 15/02/2024 at 08:26, egg said:

They've annihilated Gaza, not Hamas. Hamas will still exist whenever Israel decide/are told to stop. 

Did you think they'd cause this much destruction to Gaza? I'm not sure that the international community did. 

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Anyone who expected an understated response was naive. I didn’t give it enough thought to know the extent of the damage but have seen Israeli response to far lesser attacks. Butchering their civilians with glee was unprecedented so it was predictable their response would be unprecedented. 
Of course might won’t always defeat cause but they have neutered Hamas capabilities from Gaza for sure.

[egg]

  On 15/02/2024 at 08:34, whelk said:

Anyone who expected an understated response was naive. I didn’t give it enough thought to know the extent of the damage but have seen Israeli response to far lesser attacks. Butchering their civilians with glee was unprecedented so it was predictable their response would be unprecedented. 
Of course might won’t always defeat cause but they have neutered Hamas capabilities from Gaza for sure.

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I'm not sure that anyone was so naive as to think there'd be no large reaction. Where I think there was naivety (we've seen it in this thread) was the belief that this is/was about destroying Hamas rather than Gaza. Israel know that as an entity and ideology this episode won't remove Hamas, and their capabilities are more suspended than neutered. 

[Lord Duckhunter]

That apology doesn’t seem that genuine does it. 

[east-stand-nic]

  On 14/02/2024 at 09:20, sadoldgit said:

What I don’t get is that, through his own words, Duckhunter says that anyone who criticises a Jewish person is anti semitic. Lots of people who have criticised the action of the Israelis have been labelled as anti semitic. You can criticise Christians, Sikhs, Buddhists, Hindus etc all you like, but as soon as you question the actions of the Israeli government you get jumped on as being antisemitic. Those who use antisemitism to shut down valid criticisms are the small minded ones. 

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But it's OK for you to label anyone who disagrees with labour polices a right wing Nazi, fascist, Tommy Robinson supporter?

[badgerx16]

  On 15/02/2024 at 08:39, egg said:

I'm not sure that anyone was so naive as to think there'd be no large reaction. Where I think there was naivety (we've seen it in this thread) was the belief that this is/was about destroying Hamas rather than Gaza. Israel know that as an entity and ideology this episode won't remove Hamas, and their capabilities are more suspended than neutered. 

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The next generation of fighters will grow from the children that survive the current conflict. What they are seeing and experiencing will fuel their desire for revenge.

[rallyboy]

While 1,200-1,500 deaths is widely used still as propaganda, the last official figure I saw for Israeli civilian deaths from the terrible 7/10 terrorist attack was 695.

But they've gone way beyond targeting the group responsible and what could be defined as self defence, both of which had the full support of most normal people.

We're clearly in war crime territory now - the current actions tick every box, and are creating whole new generations of hatred.

And before some ranty kneejerk nutter posts to defend the current campaign or to blame someone else, don't bother - facts cannot be negotiated down.

There is enough neutral news coverage out there between the two sides' press releases, for a real picture to be established, and it doesn't look good.

 

[aintforever]

  On 15/02/2024 at 09:04, badgerx16 said:

The next generation of fighters will grow from the children that survive the current conflict. What they are seeing and experiencing will fuel their desire for revenge.

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And the more crimes Israel commit, the more they increase support for the Hamas cause in the surrounding countries. 

[whelk]

  On 15/02/2024 at 09:41, rallyboy said:

deaths from the terrible 7/10 terrorist attack was 695.

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And don’t forget 95% of them were killed by IDF gunships. The other 5% were escorted and place with Hamas by Netanyahu as bait to give him cause.

Sneaky them Jews

[Lighthouse]

  On 15/02/2024 at 10:00, aintforever said:

And the more crimes Israel commit, the more they increase support for the Hamas cause in the surrounding countries. 

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How many times does it need saying that Hamas hate Israel just for existing, so the latter has effectively nothing to lose. Talk about the war crimes and the civilian casualties all you want but this idea that it’s actually in Israel’s best interests to leave Gaza alone is bogus. 

[rallyboy]

  On 15/02/2024 at 09:41, rallyboy said:

 

And before some ranty kneejerk nutter posts to defend the current campaign

 

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We have a winner. 

[whelk]

  On 15/02/2024 at 10:44, Lighthouse said:

How many times does it need saying that Hamas hate Israel just for existing, so the latter has effectively nothing to lose. Talk about the war crimes and the civilian casualties all you want but this idea that it’s actually in Israel’s best interests to leave Gaza alone is bogus. 

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History is littered with groups beaten down by force not hearts and minds. 
if Israel had just respond with 5 rockets Iran and Hezbollah would be given Hamas a strict talking to telling them to stop

[Lighthouse]

  On 15/02/2024 at 10:52, rallyboy said:

We have a winner. 

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You don’t seem to know the difference between defending someone and understanding their motivation.

[whelk]

  On 15/02/2024 at 10:57, Lighthouse said:

You don’t seem to know the difference between defending someone and understanding their motivation.

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He is somewhat smug character. I feel he thinks his posts are oh so clever but just comes across like SOG masking some unpleasant views

[egg]

  On 15/02/2024 at 10:44, Lighthouse said:

How many times does it need saying that Hamas hate Israel just for existing, so the latter has effectively nothing to lose. Talk about the war crimes and the civilian casualties all you want but this idea that it’s actually in Israel’s best interests to leave Gaza alone is bogus. 

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It also needs to be said that Israel ain't exactly keen on a Palestinian state either. Their past and ongoing activities in the west bank are testament to that, and are somewhat amplified by their promises to turn Gaza to dust and the rejection of a 2 state solution. 

The suggestion that it's just Hamas who need to adjust their position is wrong. 

[aintforever]

  On 15/02/2024 at 10:44, Lighthouse said:

How many times does it need saying that Hamas hate Israel just for existing, so the latter has effectively nothing to lose. Talk about the war crimes and the civilian casualties all you want but this idea that it’s actually in Israel’s best interests to leave Gaza alone is bogus. 

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Hamas do hate Israel just for existing, now many more do. The more crimes the Israelis commit the more people will choose to side with people with these extreme views instead of wanting a peaceful two state solution. Israel are reacting in exactly the way Iran would have wanted them to.

 

[Weston Super Saint]

  On 15/02/2024 at 09:04, badgerx16 said:

The next generation of fighters will grow from the children that survive the current conflict. What they are seeing and experiencing will fuel their desire for revenge.

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Unless they're all dead....

[badgerx16]

  On 15/02/2024 at 15:12, Weston Super Saint said:

Unless they're all dead....

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In which case it IS genocide.

[Weston Super Saint]

  On 15/02/2024 at 15:20, badgerx16 said:

In which case it IS genocide.

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Indeed. But gets rid of Hamas which is the stated aim.

[sadoldgit]

  On 15/02/2024 at 10:44, Lighthouse said:

How many times does it need saying that Hamas hate Israel just for existing, so the latter has effectively nothing to lose. Talk about the war crimes and the civilian casualties all you want but this idea that it’s actually in Israel’s best interests to leave Gaza alone is bogus. 

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And the current Israeli government and their enablers feel exactly the same about the Palestinians. I think most of us understand that this goes back a lot further than 7th October and that there are factions on both sides who want the others gone. There are also those who want peace and to find a way for peaceful cohabitation. This isn’t going to happen as long as the Israelis, who have a great deal more power than the Palestinians, continue to abuse that power. It’s not rocket science that if you keep kicking you are going to get kicked back. History shows us that it doesn’t matter how many Palestinians the Israelis kill, it doesn’t bring Israel any more security. If anything it just makes reprisals more likely. If they want a more secure future perhaps they need to stop stealing land from the Palestinians, let the people in Gaza live like everybody else, and show the Arab world that they are prepared to live side by side in peace. Why wouldn’t Hamad want them gone. They consistently ignore international law and UN resolutions. Maybe they should try to show hat they are prepared to live side by side and in peace and give the Palestinians a chance to do the same without treating them like “human animals”. 
Frankly it is hard to understand how anyone who was horrified at the attack on 7th October can be perfectly ok with what has happened since. Forget religious differences, on what planet does the destruction of Gaza equate to a proportionate response to what happened on 7th October?

Israel are going to end up isolating themselves in the international community the same way that South Africa did.

Edited 15 February, 2024 by sadoldgit
Added text

[AlexLaw76]

  On 15/02/2024 at 17:42, sadoldgit said:

And the current Israeli government and their enablers feel exactly the same about the Palestinians. I think most of us understand that this goes back a lot further than 7th October and that there are factions on both sides who want the others gone. There are also those who want peace and to find a way for peaceful cohabitation. This isn’t going to happen as long as the Israelis, who have a great deal more power than the Palestinians, continue to abuse that power. It’s not rocket science that if you keep kicking you are going to get kicked back. History shows us that it doesn’t matter how many Palestinians the Israelis kill, it doesn’t bring Israel any more security. If anything it just makes reprisals more likely. If they want a more secure future perhaps they need to stop stealing land from the Palestinians, let the people in Gaza live like everybody else, and show the Arab world that they are prepared to live side by side in peace. Why wouldn’t Hamad want them gone. They consistently ignore international law and UN resolutions. Maybe they should try to show hat they are prepared to live side by side and in peace and give the Palestinians a chance to do the same without treating them like “human animals”. 
Frankly it is hard to understand how anyone who was horrified at the attack on 7th October can be perfectly ok with what has happened since. Forget religious differences, on what planet does the destruction of Gaza equate to a proportionate response to what happened on 7th October?

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[egg]

  On 15/02/2024 at 17:47, AlexLaw76 said:

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What did he say that you disagree with? 

[badgerx16]

  On 15/02/2024 at 19:23, egg said:

What did he say that you disagree with? 

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Do you think he read it ?

[egg]

  On 15/02/2024 at 19:29, badgerx16 said:

Do you think he read it ?

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It was an odd response if he did. It was one of SoG's more balanced posts I thought. 

[whelk]

  On 15/02/2024 at 19:36, egg said:

It was an odd response if he did. It was one of SoG's more balanced posts I thought. 

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Really? Just banal sixth form stuff about wanting peace. See his Isis solution

[whelk]

Although Batman’s response was odd

[egg]

  On 15/02/2024 at 19:58, whelk said:

Really? Just banal sixth form stuff about wanting peace. See his Isis solution

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Intellectual no, balanced yes, but not hateful as per Alex's response. 

[rallyboy]

One or two people continue to throw around groundless accusations of anti-semitism and racism on here - stuff they would never be brave enough to say face-to-face.

It's not needed, doesn't help debate and reflects poorly on those posters.

 

 

 

[Lord Duckhunter]

  On 15/02/2024 at 21:15, rallyboy said:

One or two people continue to throw around groundless accusations of anti-semitism and racism on here - stuff they would never be brave enough to say face-to-face.

It's not needed, doesn't help debate and reflects poorly on those posters.

 

 

 

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Groundless? 
 

If you use the international working definition of anti semitism as defined by the IHRA, a poster has been guilty of anti semitic posts on here. You seem to have your own definition, which is basically you decide what is and isn’t anti semitic. That’s a rather narcissistic approach to such things which reflects poorly on you. 

[hypochondriac]

  On 15/02/2024 at 06:45, buctootim said:

Thick or lying, doesnt really make a difference tbf. You can't kill 1,200 civilians, mostly women and children, and not expect massive massive response. Who knew?  

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I reckon they thought they'd get a bit of a response but not on the scale that they have got. They'd largely got away with smaller things in the past. 

[hypochondriac]

  On 15/02/2024 at 08:34, whelk said:

Anyone who expected an understated response was naive. I didn’t give it enough thought to know the extent of the damage but have seen Israeli response to far lesser attacks. Butchering their civilians with glee was unprecedented so it was predictable their response would be unprecedented. 
Of course might won’t always defeat cause but they have neutered Hamas capabilities from Gaza for sure.

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I reckon at the conclusion of this they'll have been pretty successful at crippling Hamas operations in Gaza and certainly getting rid of things like all the tunnels. Let's hope they get the remainder of the hostages back too. I expect if Hamas had simply surrendered a few months back and handed back the hostages then the international community would rightly have prevented Israel from doing anything further. If Hamas really cared about civilians and doing the right thing of course. 

[hypochondriac]

  On 15/02/2024 at 09:04, badgerx16 said:

The next generation of fighters will grow from the children that survive the current conflict. What they are seeing and experiencing will fuel their desire for revenge.

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Maybe. But it eliminates the immediate threat for a decent number of years to come. Presumably Israel will use the intervening years to protect themselves further to reduce the likelihood of repeat attacks. 

[hypochondriac]

  On 15/02/2024 at 21:15, rallyboy said:

One or two people continue to throw around groundless accusations of anti-semitism and racism on here - stuff they would never be brave enough to say face-to-face.

It's not needed, doesn't help debate and reflects poorly on those posters.

 

 

 

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I'd gladly call soggy anti-semitic to his face. He's made more than one post on here that obviously cleared that threshold even if some of his other posts have been milder. There's a big difference between criticising the Israeli government or the actions of the IDF and some of the stuff he's been saying on here. 

[whelk]

Those on far right that are antisemitic are driven by hatred, no doubt. I think where prevalent on the left it isn’t necessarily motivated by hate driven ideology  (although not always) - I don’t think SOG has nasty intentions towards Jews but is caught up in political causes that does make them his enemy. I expect some also truly believe it is Israel (not Jews)that they dislike and they are righteously supporting the underdog. The left also seem to simplify supporting Islamic culture and ignore the bigotry and intolerance  that they should be at odds with. 
Think some would do well to have more empathy with how Jewish people see things as they are often far more perceptive to antisemitism and saw it was rife in Corbyn’s Labour Party. SOG dismisses this which is akin and as laughable as a white middle class man declaring a black teen in a London estate never experiences racism. 

[whelk]

  On 15/02/2024 at 21:15, rallyboy said:

One or two people continue to throw around groundless accusations of anti-semitism and racism on here - stuff they would never be brave enough to say face-to-face.

It's not needed, doesn't help debate and reflects poorly on those posters.

 

 

 

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That is fair and  am guilty of insulting without cause. However I am baffled why some seem to want to down play Hamas atrocities albeit in disputing numbers or IDF’s complicity. It isn’t explicit support but does indicate where views may lie.

[hypochondriac]

  On 16/02/2024 at 05:34, whelk said:

Those on far right that are antisemitic are driven by hatred, no doubt. I think where prevalent on the left it isn’t necessarily motivated by hate driven ideology  (although not always) - I don’t think SOG has nasty intentions towards Jews but is caught up in political causes that does make them his enemy. I expect some also truly believe it is Israel (not Jews)that they dislike and they are righteously supporting the underdog. The left also seem to simplify supporting Islamic culture and ignore the bigotry and intolerance  that they should be at odds with. 
Think some would do well to have more empathy with how Jewish people see things as they are often far more perceptive to antisemitism and saw it was rife in Corbyn’s Labour Party. SOG dismisses this which is akin and as laughable as a white middle class man declaring a black teen in a London estate never experiences racism. 

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I think in skne ways it's simpler than that. Many on the left define the world through a series of relationships between an oppressor and the oppressed. If there's some inequality they explain that because those who have or are less have been opressed by someone or something else. They see Israel as an oppressor and so that means that Israel and it's citizens can never truly be victims. 

[egg]

  On 16/02/2024 at 05:39, whelk said:

That is fair and  am guilty of insulting without cause. However I am baffled why some seem to want to down play Hamas atrocities albeit in disputing numbers or IDF’s complicity. It isn’t explicit support but does indicate where views may lie.

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Where on this thread has there been downplaying of Hamas atrocities? What I've seen is a tacit suggestion that it's not possible to condone their conduct whilst condoning Israeli conduct which is a bizarre notion. I started this thread because the Israeli/IDF behaviour over years is something that has concerned me and was getting worse.

The religious angle was/is not something I consider or contemplate, and I think that's true of many. I simply saw the Palestinian people getting royally fucked over in the west bank and essentially being locked into Gaza. Since then I've seen what I think is an unjustified response from Israel to what Hamas did. No religion. No prejudice.

I don't understand why it's the case that those who disagree with my view cite religion/anti semitism. It's a lazy slur, and we see a lot of that.  I can only deduce that's it's a reflection of the views of the people who do that. 

[sadoldgit]

  On 16/02/2024 at 10:45, egg said:

Where on this thread has there been downplaying of Hamas atrocities? What I've seen is a tacit suggestion that it's not possible to condone their conduct whilst condoning Israeli conduct which is a bizarre notion. I started this thread because the Israeli/IDF behaviour over years is something that has concerned me and was getting worse.

The religious angle was/is not something I consider or contemplate, and I think that's true of many. I simply saw the Palestinian people getting royally fucked over in the west bank and essentially being locked into Gaza. Since then I've seen what I think is an unjustified response from Israel to what Hamas did. No religion. No prejudice.

I don't understand why it's the case that those who disagree with my view cite religion/anti semitism. It's a lazy slur, and we see a lot of that.  I can only deduce that's it's a reflection of the views of the people who do that. 

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100% this. I have not seen any down playing of the Hamas attack on 7th October, quite the opposite. Calling out the actions of the IDF has nothing to do with downplaying the horrors of the initial attack.

It has been said many times but there is a huge difference between real antisemitism and criticising the agenda and methods of the present Israeli government and their military. Sadly the methods of dealing with that criticism often results in the erroneous playing of the antisemitic card, which as has been said, does the Jewish people no favours as it diminishes real cases of antisemitism. 
What is also clear is that there are people who are fine with Islamophobia but get in a real lather about what they consider to be antisemitism. Any normal, rational person would recognise that any form of discrimination against racial, religious or other minority groups is not ok. 
There are normal, rational people on this thread who understand that but there is also a small group of people who either don’t get it, or chose to ignore it just to score points and stir things up.

Hundreds of innocent people were killed or maimed in the horrendous attack of 7th October. Since then tens of thousands more innocent people have been killed or maimed. Neither are ok.

 

 

 

[rallyboy]

  On 16/02/2024 at 05:39, whelk said:

However I am baffled why some seem to want to down play Hamas atrocities albeit in disputing numbers or IDF’s complicity. It isn’t explicit support but does indicate where views may lie.

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Are you really suggesting that because I quoted the official civilian death toll to correct an inflated number, I am revealing my own anti-semitism? 😲

I don't know what you guys have got going on with Soggy, like others I don't read that much of it, we're not interested in playground squabbles - he's probably typed something clumsily and got battered for it, but even sensible posts get hammered for fun on here and insults are thrown like confetti.

But if you call me a racist or an anti-semite, that needs explaining.

I'll be polite and presume it was an error.

 

 

 

[AlexLaw76]

  On 16/02/2024 at 12:22, rallyboy said:

Are you really suggesting that because I quoted the official civilian death toll to correct an inflated number, I am revealing my own anti-semitism? 😲

I don't know what you guys have got going on with Soggy, like others I don't read that much of it, we're not interested in playground squabbles - he's probably typed something clumsily and got battered for it, but even sensible posts get hammered for fun on here and insults are thrown like confetti.

But if you call me a racist or an anti-semite, that needs explaining.

I'll be polite and presume it was an error.

 

 

 

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You have been around the Lounge for a long time, I must have missed this type of post with the many times Soggy randomly calls someone racist, far right etc.

If you can provide a link, that would be great.