Israel

[egg]

1 hour ago, whelk said:

I haven’t suggested that but you seem to want to suggest there is equivalence in the atrocities by keep saying Israeli isn’t innocent. Your emphasis give away where your sympathies lie

My recognising that both sides have behaved appallingly (albeit in different ways) is not me suggesting equivalence, or sympathy to the actions of Hamas - poor form of you to insinuate that. I've made it clear that I consider their actions appalling, but you know that. 

[inspectorfrost]

8 hours ago, whelk said:

Do you think Hamas attacks wouldn’t be met with this sort of reaction? Only a fool would think otherwise. You don’t mess with the Israelis they don’t turn the other cheek. Hamas knew that too so they have royally fucked the Palestinian people and if you think the UN has any teeth to stop it then again that shows massive naivety.

This reaction is exactly what Hamas want

The Israelis are currently proposing measures that will specifically harm the civilian population of Gaza, on top of the air strikes they are carrying out against Hamas.

Israel invaded Gaza in 2014 to stop rocket attacks and remove Hamas' ability to infiltrate Israel. . . . Approx 1600 Palestinian civilians died as a result. Hamas are now evidently far stronger, with significantly more capability and support, with Israeli civilian anger at their own government/military at an all time high.

Starting to work out why there's so much opposition to Israel's handling of this conflict?

[Lord Duckhunter]

When 7/7 happened I don’t recall too many people saying “both sides are to blame” because of our war in Iraq (which many considered evil & illegal). 
 

Everybody who wants normalisation of this area needs to accept that Hamas & Hamas alone is responsible for pushing that back a generation. Many gulf states were putting their countries on a course towards acceptance and cooperation with Israel, that is now clearly impossible as Arab nations can not do so in light of the Israeli response to this. 
 

The Egyptians response to this is very telling seeing as they also have a border with Gaza & a means of escape for all these women & children being pummelled. 
 

 

[egg]

2 minutes ago, Lord Duckhunter said:

When 7/7 happened I don’t recall too many people saying “both sides are to blame” because of our war in Iraq (which many considered evil & illegal). 
 

Everybody who wants normalisation of this area needs to accept that Hamas & Hamas alone is responsible for pushing that back a generation. Many gulf states were putting their countries on a course towards acceptance and cooperation with Israel, that is now clearly impossible as Arab nations can not do so in light of the Israeli response to this. 
 

The Egyptians response to this is very telling seeing as they also have a border with Gaza & a means of escape for all these women & children being pummelled. 
 

 

7/7 was 7/7. That was different to this. 

I find it bewildering that anyone cannot acknowledge that the behaviour of the Israeli government towards Palestinians - settlements, supporting settler attacks, destruction of houses, denial of housing permits, shooting of civilians, etc - is wrong. 

It's odd that anyone cannot acknowledge that it's possible to criticise the behaviour of the Israeli government whilst being disgusted with the appalling actions of Hamas. 

What's interesting is some of the language used on this thread. People who make criticism both ways are being hit with the "equivalence" stick, seemingly in an attempt to suppress a view that both sides have done wrong. That's an extension of an issue that's always been there when discussing the Israel/Palestine issue - anti Zionist views have wrongly been deemed anti semitic and been shot down. Just criticism doesn't need a set of scales to assess the balance of blame, but even so, who's been most at fault doesn't detract from the fault of the other side. 

Both sides have been a disgrace, and Israel are not so naive as to think that they can destroy Hamas. They want to destroy as much of Gaza and it's infrastructure as they can. We all know that the Israeli response will only increase the size of the vicious circle.

It's a sorry carry on. Whether a 2 state solution will now be possible I'm not sure, but the sad thing is that we kind of had one with Gaza, West Bank and East Jerusalem.

[badgerx16]

One side believes they are God's chosen people, with absolute right to the land they live on; the other thinks that violent martyrdom is a guarantee of Paradise, and taking as many unbelievers as possible with them is their duty.

Yet strangely, their religions are based on the same traditions and heritage, with the same prophets and historical leaders.

 

Edited 11 October, 2023 by badgerx16

[badgerx16]

56 minutes ago, Lord Duckhunter said:

The Egyptians response to this is very telling seeing as they also have a border with Gaza & a means of escape for all these women & children being pummelled. 
 

 

They have effectively closed that border as they fear that an influx of refugees might bring with it militants who could join the Islamist reactionaries already operating in Sinai. People trying to flee the Israeli blitz on Gaza have nowhere to go.

[Gloucester Saint]

One thing we’ll all agree on - Suella is fucking moron for trying to score political points within her own party on this issue https://news.sky.com/story/waving-a-palestinian-flag-on-british-streets-may-not-be-legitimate-suella-braverman-warns-12981988

Hamas is a recognised terror organisation throughout the EU and Western world, it’s widely been a criminal offence for many years to promote or support their activities in any way. 

[Sheaf Saint]

1 hour ago, badgerx16 said:

One side believes they are God's chosen people, with absolute right to the land they live on; the other thinks that violent martyrdom is a guarantee of Paradise, and taking as many unbelievers as possible with them is their duty.

Yet strangely, their religions are based on the same traditions and heritage, with the same prophets and historical leaders.

 

It's tragic isn't it. So much death and suffering because of some delusional bollocks written down centuries ago.

I'm reminded of the episode of Red Dwarf when it transpired that the entire Cat race had obliterated each other in a holy war over whether the hats worn by the staff in the burger store in the promised land of Fujal (Fiji) should be red or blue, and Lister pointed out they were both wrong because the hats were supposed to be green.

Sorry to trivialise and make light of the situation like that, but it's the way I see it. 

Edited 11 October, 2023 by Sheaf Saint

[whelk]

2 hours ago, egg said:

7/7 was 7/7. That was different to this

So Hamas shoot up a London Synagogue, you will say that was appalling but wont leave it at that and will have to mention have you seen what Israel have done? And they are Jews. 
Read about the appalling atrocities  at Kfar Aza kibbutz and how does that differ to any terrorist attack in Europe? 
 

Don’t think some understand the mentality of Israel. They have neighbours who want to obliterate them from face of the earth and the only deterrent is that they are ruthless in responses. You expect them not to be?
 

Hamas are same as iSIS vile scum that need to be exterminated. You can talk about eliminating the circumstances that breeds converts but love peace and harmony ain’t that easy to achieve with ideologists.

 

 

[whelk]

1 hour ago, Sheaf Saint said:

So much death and suffering because of some delusional bollocks written down centuries ago.

So says an arrogant westerner. If only we were all humanists?

[whelk]

10 hours ago, egg said:

My recognising that both sides have behaved appallingly (albeit in different ways) is not me suggesting equivalence, or sympathy to the actions of Hamas - poor form of you to insinuate that. I've made it clear that I consider their actions appalling, but you know that. 

 

I know you aren’t supporting thembut is like SOG response to anti semitism. Of course Corbyn never says or maybe even believes he is antisemitic.. Jews know different. Israel is brutal and doesn’t help harness peace but reality is they need to be. Many Arabs don’t want to kill Jews because of actions. 

 

[Sheaf Saint]

29 minutes ago, whelk said:

Don’t think some understand the mentality of Israel. They have neighbours who want to obliterate them from face of the earth and the only deterrent is that they are ruthless in responses. You expect them not to be?

I get what you're saying Whelk, but you're still making out that it's more one-sided than it actually is. When Israeli troops demolish Palestinian homes to make room for their illegal settlements, is that them responding to aggression against them? Of course it's not. It's them proactively persecuting people whose families have lived on and worked that land for centuries for their own gain. 

Yes, there are many Arabs who want to end Israel's existence, but there are many in Israel who also want to completely eradicate the presence of Arabs from the region and, with the backing of the state, have been systematically going about this for decades.

Don't try and make out that the desire for sole control of the land and the removal of other ethnicities is exclusive to Arabs, because it's not.

[aintforever]

46 minutes ago, whelk said:

Don’t think some understand the mentality of Israel. They have neighbours who want to obliterate them from face of the earth 

 

Unless they address the reason why that is there will never be peace.

[rallyboy]

I'm not sure why some people come on here all angry and looking for an argument all the time.

 

 

Well, I do know actually because I'm a smug intellectual, but I'm just being polite and battering them with the shock and awe of kindness and respect.

🙂

 

[whelk]

21 minutes ago, rallyboy said:

I'm not sure why some people come on here all angry and looking for an argument all the time.

 

 

Well, I do know actually because I'm a smug intellectual, but I'm just being polite and battering them with the shock and awe of kindness and respect.

🙂

 

Yeah you’re one of the good guys who want peace. Well done an no propaganda ever going to influence an independent thinker like you. Just really really really hope we don’t pick a side and just hope the baddies go away. 
Don’t confuse kindness fans smugness. 

[badgerx16]

2 hours ago, whelk said:

 

Don’t think some understand the mentality of Israel. They have neighbours who want to obliterate them from face of the earth and the only deterrent is that they are ruthless in responses. You expect them not to be?
 

Why is that ?

Not in any way excusing Hamas, but maybe the people evicted from their ancestral lands feel slightly aggreieved.

[Lord Duckhunter]

4 hours ago, egg said:

 

It's a sorry carry on. Whether a 2 state solution will now be possible I'm not sure, but the sad thing is that we kind of had one with Gaza, West Bank and East Jerusalem.

The reason that there will never be a 2 state solution is one side will not accept the right of the other to exist.  
 

As you rightly said, a fragile, unofficial 2 state solution existed for a number of years and this latest Hamas attack was probably a reaction to that. How on earth can the Israelis contemplate living beside people who want to murder each & every one of them. Why would you expect the Israelis to take their foot off the throat of their enemies, when that enemy want them wiped off the face of the earth.
 

If the displaced people were given a homeland, do you think they will live peacefully beside Israel? Of course they won’t, because too many of them want Jews wiped out totally.
 

We’ve seen in Northern Ireland & in the Balkans that counties can move on from horrendous acts and injustices, move on from hatred  inflicted on each other. Uneasy peace and reconciliation can take place, but not when one side is unwilling to let the other exist and is quite prepared to murder each and every last one of them.

Isreal could flatten & wipe out every single person living in Gaza. It won’t, but it could. If the other side could do that to Isreal, do you really believe they wouldn’t do it? 
 

This time last week I was drinking along Rothschild Boulevard, and the people of Gaza weren’t being bombed. The reason that changed is because of Hamas, and the fact that Hamas deliberately hide amongst innocent people. They provoked this & they are ultimately to blame for the death and destruction reaped upon Gaza at the moment. 

[AlexLaw76]

Never in doubt

 

[egg]

1 hour ago, Lord Duckhunter said:

The reason that there will never be a 2 state solution is one side will not accept the right of the other to exist.  
 

As you rightly said, a fragile, unofficial 2 state solution existed for a number of years and this latest Hamas attack was probably a reaction to that. How on earth can the Israelis contemplate living beside people who want to murder each & every one of them. Why would you expect the Israelis to take their foot off the throat of their enemies, when that enemy want them wiped off the face of the earth.
 

If the displaced people were given a homeland, do you think they will live peacefully beside Israel? Of course they won’t, because too many of them want Jews wiped out totally.
 

We’ve seen in Northern Ireland & in the Balkans that counties can move on from horrendous acts and injustices, move on from hatred  inflicted on each other. Uneasy peace and reconciliation can take place, but not when one side is unwilling to let the other exist and is quite prepared to murder each and every last one of them.

Isreal could flatten & wipe out every single person living in Gaza. It won’t, but it could. If the other side could do that to Isreal, do you really believe they wouldn’t do it? 
 

This time last week I was drinking along Rothschild Boulevard, and the people of Gaza weren’t being bombed. The reason that changed is because of Hamas, and the fact that Hamas deliberately hide amongst innocent people. They provoked this & they are ultimately to blame for the death and destruction reaped upon Gaza at the moment. 

That all ignores that Israel does not want Palestine to be a thing. It is Israel who have built settlements ignoring the UN's views on it. They don't allow Arabs to build land on the bit of land that they have left. They destroy the houses that are built. They grab land. They allow settlers to attack the Arabs. 

The Arabs have had it terribly for years. That should be undeniable.

The Israeli behaviour has been disgraceful, and it's understandable that Arabs resist and fight their corner. What isn't understandable or acceptable is what Hamas have done. I can understand why Israel want Hamas gone but bombing the shit out of Gaza and wrecking the homes and lives of innocent civilians won't achieve anything positive. Indeed, the Gaza assault is about wiping it off the map - Netanyahu said the other day that he intends to turn it into a "deserted island of rubble". That's the place, not Hamas. 

As you say, there needs to be dialogue but I cannot accept your assessment that it's only the Arabs who need to alter their mindset. Their has to be change and movement on both sides. 

 

Edited 11 October, 2023 by egg

[iansums]

I seem to recall that a good few years ago, the US brokered a deal between Israel and the Palestinian head Arafat but he withdrew at the last minute, effectively refusing a political solution. Someone may correct me on this.

[Sheaf Saint]

11 minutes ago, egg said:

Indeed, the Gaza assault is about wiping it off the map - Netanyahu said the other day that he intends to turn it into a "deserted island of rubble". That's the place, not Hamas. 

I don't think enough has been made of this TBH.

I remember the furore a few years back when Ahmedinijad was (mis)quoted as saying he wanted to see Israel wiped off the map*. This statement from Netenyahu is no different.

 

* - he was actually quoting the Ayatollah who in fact said that he wished the current Israeli regime could be wiped from the pages of history. Didn't stop a lot of people from frothing at the mouth about it though.

[egg]

20 minutes ago, Sheaf Saint said:

I don't think enough has been made of this TBH.

I remember the furore a few years back when Ahmedinijad was (mis)quoted as saying he wanted to see Israel wiped off the map*. This statement from Netenyahu is no different.

 

* - he was actually quoting the Ayatollah who in fact said that he wished the current Israeli regime could be wiped from the pages of history. Didn't stop a lot of people from frothing at the mouth about it though.

The BBC didn't report. Sky did but misquoted Netanyahu. We get plenty of talk about Hamas not recognising Israel, but nothing about Israel wanting to obliterate Gaza despite them doing it in front of the world. The discussion needs balance, but the comments from some on here highlight that some believe this to be a one side at fault issue, presumably because that's what the media tell them. 

[badgerx16]

44 minutes ago, iansums said:

I seem to recall that a good few years ago, the US brokered a deal between Israel and the Palestinian head Arafat but he withdrew at the last minute, effectively refusing a political solution. Someone may correct me on this.

The Oslo accords were supposed to be a framework for a two state treaty, but Netanyahu later admitted that he had no intention to follow the spirit of the agreement and would try to bend it to suit his agenda as far as he could. Many advances in relations between Israel and the Palestinians were made, but they have not achieved their original aims.

Edited 11 October, 2023 by badgerx16

[Weston Super Saint]

5 minutes ago, egg said:

The BBC didn't report. Sky did but misquoted Netanyahu. We get plenty of talk about Hamas not recognising Israel, but nothing about Israel wanting to obliterate Gaza despite them doing it in front of the world. The discussion needs balance, but the comments from some on here highlight that some believe this to be a one side at fault issue, presumably because that's what the media tell them. 

Unfortunately, religion is involved.  Rationality and reasonableness therefore goes out of the window.  Has done for thousands of years and will continue for many more!

[rooney]

The Imams in the UK are strangely quiet  as to what their same religion Islamic Hamas terrorists did to start the latest conflict with Israel.

[Sheaf Saint]

Just seen some of the latest footage from Gaza on the news. Jesus!

There's no denying that what Hamas did was unconscionable, but this is most definitely not a proportionate response. 

[egg]

11 minutes ago, Sheaf Saint said:

Just seen some of the latest footage from Gaza on the news. Jesus!

There's no denying that what Hamas did was unconscionable, but this is most definitely not a proportionate response. 

Indeed. There's no defence of Israel in the Gaza attacks. Is purely about revenge and demolition. Biden have them a hall pass to do wtf they like thou so they'll carry on. Two wrongs don't make a right etc. 

[Lord Duckhunter]

Fuck me, you couldn’t make it up. 

[Turkish]

2 minutes ago, Lord Duckhunter said:

Fuck me, you couldn’t make it up. 

Who's going to tell 'em?!   

[sadoldgit]

23 hours ago, whelk said:

You actually sad you told your missus when she asked who were the bad guys that you didn’t know. Arab terrorists shooting teenagers fleeing a music festival, breaking into people’s homes and butchering people including kids.  
sorry will never understand that viewpoint. 

My wife asked the question about the conflict in general rather than this particular instance and I replied that I thought that they were both the bad guys.

I’m don’t see that gunmen breaking in to houses and killing innocent women, children and babies is any different to killing innocent women, children and babies by raining bombs and missiles on their heads. I guess you can kill more people with a bomb or a middle than you can a gun though so at least one side has a more efficient way of killing its enemies.

Yet again we get the deflection of any criticism of the current Israeli government’s action as being “anti-Semitic”. What absolute rubbish. As as has been said, it is entirely possible to be sympathetic and supportive of the Palestinians position (not Hamas) and not be anti-Semitic (like Corbyn). I have heard many Jewish people on radio phone ins criticising Netanyahu and his government - does that make them anti-Semites?

There is an excellent article on Twitter written by a Jewish person, Isaac Saul, which covers the history of the conflict going back centuries (the Jews, Muslims and Arabs all come from the Canaanites so share the same DNA). He spares neither side and lays the blame for the latest killings at the door of both sides.

Both sides need to compromise. The Israelis need to be guaranteed safety in the previously agreed lands and they need to get out of the occupied territories. If they don’t make the effort to live together peacefully this will only get worse.

I get the anger over the recent atrocities carried out by Hamas  although it is not an easy watch seeing the destruction of Gaza either. When you look at the figures produced by the UN of people killed or seriously injured in the 13 years between 2008 and 2020 - Palestinians 120,286  Israelis 5,887. - it gives you some idea of which side has suffered more from the conflict. This has absolutely nothing to do with anti-Semitism. It is a fact.

Perhaps we can agree that the lives of innocent peace loving Jews are worth exactly the same as innocent peace loving Palestinians?
 

 

[AlexLaw76]

2 minutes ago, sadoldgit said:

My wife asked the question about the conflict in general rather than this particular instance and I replied that I thought that they were both the bad guys.

I’m don’t see that gunmen breaking in to houses and killing innocent women, children and babies is any different to killing innocent women, children and babies by raining bombs and missiles on their heads. I guess you can kill more people with a bomb or a middle than you can a gun though so at least one side has a more efficient way of killing its enemies.

Yet again we get the deflection of any criticism of the current Israeli government’s action as being “anti-Semitic”. What absolute rubbish. As as has been said, it is entirely possible to be sympathetic and supportive of the Palestinians position (not Hamas) and not be anti-Semitic (like Corbyn). I have heard many Jewish people on radio phone ins criticising Netanyahu and his government - does that make them anti-Semites?

There is an excellent article on Twitter written by a Jewish person, Isaac Saul, which covers the history of the conflict going back centuries (the Jews, Muslims and Arabs all come from the Canaanites so share the same DNA). He spares neither side and lays the blame for the latest killings at the door of both sides.

Both sides need to compromise. The Israelis need to be guaranteed safety in the previously agreed lands and they need to get out of the occupied territories. If they don’t make the effort to live together peacefully this will only get worse.

I get the anger over the recent atrocities carried out by Hamas  although it is not an easy watch seeing the destruction of Gaza either. When you look at the figures produced by the UN of people killed or seriously injured in the 13 years between 2008 and 2020 - Palestinians 120,286  Israelis 5,887. - it gives you some idea of which side has suffered more from the conflict. This has absolutely nothing to do with anti-Semitism. It is a fact.

Perhaps we can agree that the lives of innocent peace loving Jews are worth exactly the same as innocent peace loving Palestinians?
 

 

What do the other side need to compromise on?

[egg]

3 minutes ago, AlexLaw76 said:

What do the other side need to compromise on?

I think that's pretty obvious. Both sides need their own state, to be left alone by the other, and to respect the others right to existence. 

[Lighthouse]

14 minutes ago, egg said:

I think that's pretty obvious. Both sides need their own state, to be left alone by the other, and to respect the others right to existence. 

Many Palestinians might want that but Hamas, backed by Iran, has no intention of allowing Israel to exist at all. There will never be peace.

[aintforever]

1 hour ago, Sheaf Saint said:

Just seen some of the latest footage from Gaza on the news. Jesus!

There's no denying that what Hamas did was unconscionable, but this is most definitely not a proportionate response. 

The Israeli government fucked up in not being prepared for the Hamas attack so are just going on a bloodthirsty rampage to save face.

[AlexLaw76]

2 hours ago, Lord Duckhunter said:

Fuck me, you couldn’t make it up. 

people like this amaze me. They openly support a regime or ideology, that if they lived under it would be thrown off a high-rise within about 23 seconds.

 

As for the war, Israel easily have the capability to end the Gaza strip, and pretty quickly. I wonder how far they will go.

Edited 11 October, 2023 by AlexLaw76

[whelk]

1 hour ago, aintforever said:

The Israeli government fucked up in not being prepared for the Hamas attack so are just going on a bloodthirsty rampage to save face.

Probably the most ignorant post on this thread

[whelk]

6 hours ago, AlexLaw76 said:

Never in doubt

 

If genuine what utter cunts

[whelk]

2 hours ago, sadoldgit said:

My wife asked the question about the conflict in general rather than this particular instance and I replied that I thought that they were both the bad guys.

I’m don’t see that gunmen breaking in to houses and killing innocent women, children and babies is any different to killing innocent women, children and babies by raining bombs and missiles on their heads. I guess you can kill more people with a bomb or a middle than you can a gun though so at least one side has a more efficient way of killing its enemies.

Yet again we get the deflection of any criticism of the current Israeli government’s action as being “anti-Semitic”. What absolute rubbish. As as has been said, it is entirely possible to be sympathetic and supportive of the Palestinians position (not Hamas) and not be anti-Semitic (like Corbyn). I have heard many Jewish people on radio phone ins criticising Netanyahu and his government - does that make them anti-Semites?

There is an excellent article on Twitter written by a Jewish person, Isaac Saul, which covers the history of the conflict going back centuries (the Jews, Muslims and Arabs all come from the Canaanites so share the same DNA). He spares neither side and lays the blame for the latest killings at the door of both sides.

Both sides need to compromise. The Israelis need to be guaranteed safety in the previously agreed lands and they need to get out of the occupied territories. If they don’t make the effort to live together peacefully this will only get worse.

I get the anger over the recent atrocities carried out by Hamas  although it is not an easy watch seeing the destruction of Gaza either. When you look at the figures produced by the UN of people killed or seriously injured in the 13 years between 2008 and 2020 - Palestinians 120,286  Israelis 5,887. - it gives you some idea of which side has suffered more from the conflict. This has absolutely nothing to do with anti-Semitism. It is a fact.

Perhaps we can agree that the lives of innocent peace loving Jews are worth exactly the same as innocent peace loving Palestinians?
 

 

SOG has no idea who the enemy of the west is. Beautiful sentiment from Mr Lovely, I love every one especially Arabs. Less keen on Jews though.

 

[Jonnyboy]

 

22 hours ago, whelk said:

I haven’t suggested that but you seem to want to suggest there is equivalence in the atrocities by keep saying Israeli isn’t innocent. Your emphasis give away where your sympathies lie

You're right,there isn't an equivalence, Israel is far worse historically.

https://ibb.co/ggBy1VS

 

Edited 11 October, 2023 by Jonnyboy
Hard

[Turkish]

50 minutes ago, AlexLaw76 said:

people like this amaze me. They openly support a regime or ideology, that if they lived under it would be thrown off a high-rise within about 23 seconds.

 

As for the war, Israel easily have the capability to end the Gaza strip, and pretty quickly. I wonder how far they will go.

proof that some people don’t actually know what they’re supporting, they’re just doing it to been appear to be doing the right thing 

[Lord Duckhunter]

2 hours ago, sadoldgit said:

 

 The Israelis need to be guaranteed safety in the previously agreed lands and they need to get out of the occupied territories. 
 

 

Do you not not understand, these 2 statements are completely contradictory.  Isreal will never be safe with those original  borders, the country could easily be split by invading forces. They are not just areas the Israelis fancy moving into, they are important strategic areas which the Israelis need some degree of control over to keep the rest of the country safe. 
 

 

[Lord Duckhunter]

5 minutes ago, Turkish said:

proof that some people don’t actually know what they’re supporting, they’re just doing it to been appear to be doing the right thing 

It’s interesting that the usual suspects don’t seem to be critical of Egypt, who could open their border & help the relive the suffering of their Arab brothers. 

[Jonnyboy]

1 hour ago, AlexLaw76 said:

people like this amaze me. They openly support a regime or ideology, that if they lived under it would be thrown off a high-rise within about 23 seconds.

 

As for the war, Israel easily have the capability to end the Gaza strip, and pretty quickly. I wonder how far they will go.

Since when does the state of Palestine throw gay people off buildings?

Not a fan of Wikipedia but sometimes it's the easiest source to use:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/LGBT_rights_in_the_State_of_Palestine

Seems once again it's us good old Brits who left the legacy of illegality in Gaza (as well as laying the foundations for the last 100+ years of never ending conflict).

[aintforever]

15 minutes ago, Turkish said:

proof that some people don’t actually know what they’re supporting, they’re just doing it to been appear to be doing the right thing 

Or you can be gay, not support their laws but still not like the way Israel has treated Palestine.

[inspectorfrost]

5 hours ago, Sheaf Saint said:

I don't think enough has been made of this TBH.

I remember the furore a few years back when Ahmedinijad was (mis)quoted as saying he wanted to see Israel wiped off the map*. This statement from Netenyahu is no different.

 

* - he was actually quoting the Ayatollah who in fact said that he wished the current Israeli regime could be wiped from the pages of history. Didn't stop a lot of people from frothing at the mouth about it though.

 

A good spot, reporting double standards like this have increased a fair bit in recent years.

We've currently got government ministers trying to order BBC journalists what terminology to use when constructing their news articles on this war.

As a friend of mine from Lithuania commented when asked why people in Russia believe Putin's propaganda on the news - "the same reason people over here believe the BBC"

[Lord Duckhunter]

38 minutes ago, inspectorfrost said:

 

 

We've currently got government ministers trying to order BBC journalists what terminology to use when constructing their news articles on this war.

 

It’s not just the Government though is it? Kier Starmer has called for the BBC to call them terrorists.
 

One thing for sure had Jewish citizens attacked Muslims at a music festival, dragged them back to Isreal after raping them, murdering their babies and the elderly, you and The BBC would damn we’ll call them terrorists.
 

And you’re the one preaching about “double standards” in the media? 

[whelk]

2 hours ago, Jonnyboy said:

Since when does the state of Palestine throw gay people off buildings?

Not a fan of Wikipedia but sometimes it's the easiest source to use:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/LGBT_rights_in_the_State_of_Palestine

Seems once again it's us good old Brits who left the legacy of illegality in Gaza (as well as laying the foundations for the last 100+ years of never ending conflict).

Ahh Jonny boy has woken up as he can attack Jews.

[Fan The Flames]

33 minutes ago, Lord Duckhunter said:

It’s not just the Government though is it? Kier Starmer has called for the BBC to call them terrorists.
 

One thing for sure had Jewish citizens attacked Muslims at a music festival, dragged them back to Isreal after raping them, murdering their babies and the elderly, you and The BBC would damn we’ll call them terrorists.
 

And you’re the one preaching about “double standards” in the media? 

No double standrds in your little scenario, becaue the BBC don't call anyone terrorists. Or did you really think it was just Hamas they wouldn't call it.

[benjii]

17 hours ago, Lord Duckhunter said:

The reason that there will never be a 2 state solution is one side will not accept the right of the other to exist.  
 

As you rightly said, a fragile, unofficial 2 state solution existed for a number of years and this latest Hamas attack was probably a reaction to that. How on earth can the Israelis contemplate living beside people who want to murder each & every one of them. Why would you expect the Israelis to take their foot off the throat of their enemies, when that enemy want them wiped off the face of the earth.
 

If the displaced people were given a homeland, do you think they will live peacefully beside Israel? Of course they won’t, because too many of them want Jews wiped out totally.
 

We’ve seen in Northern Ireland & in the Balkans that counties can move on from horrendous acts and injustices, move on from hatred  inflicted on each other. Uneasy peace and reconciliation can take place, but not when one side is unwilling to let the other exist and is quite prepared to murder each and every last one of them.

Isreal could flatten & wipe out every single person living in Gaza. It won’t, but it could. If the other side could do that to Isreal, do you really believe they wouldn’t do it? 
 

This time last week I was drinking along Rothschild Boulevard, and the people of Gaza weren’t being bombed. The reason that changed is because of Hamas, and the fact that Hamas deliberately hide amongst innocent people. They provoked this & they are ultimately to blame for the death and destruction reaped upon Gaza at the moment. 

The people of Gaza weren't being bombed because Netanyahu has tried to cosy up to Hamas to cause a split in alliance between the Gaza leadership and the West Bank. Certain Israelis think this is why such a huge defence failure occurred at the weekend - Netanyahu didn't think it would happen.

Putting Gaza aside, the reason there can never now be a clear two state solution is because of the Israeli government's support and encouragement of Jewish settlement in the West Bank and ensuring that Palestinian settlements are contained in ever shrinking enclaves without any hope of effective collective governance or statehood.

Whether the above is justified or not is a matter of opinion but it is a policy clearly designed to eliminate the prospect of having to concede a proper Palestinian state on the land.

It's a complete mess now with little chance of permanent solution in the absence of a pretty comprehensive genocide, but that would likely cause further escalation.

I would also point out that post 7/7 the UK government didn't bomb Leeds, Leicester and Bradford.

 

Edit: Bernie Sanders has summed it up pretty well

 

Edited 12 October, 2023 by benjii

[badgerx16]

9 hours ago, Fan The Flames said:

No double standrds in your little scenario, becaue the BBC don't call anyone terrorists. Or did you really think it was just Hamas they wouldn't call it.

It is a standard that most major news media outlets try to follow, so that they are seen as being impartial. People being interviewed by them can use the term "terrorist", but journalists will usually try to avoid it - preferring such terms as "militants" or "fighters".