Israel

[hypochondriac]

11 minutes ago, egg said:

I've responded to your comments and views honestly (albeit toned down) and accurately Hypo. I can't help your thin skin being penetrated, and nerves being touched. That bit is on you petal. 

Ah OK so when someone else uses terms you don't like you describe it as playing the poster and not the post and focusing too much on posters on a serious thread but when you do the same thing I have thin skin and you've touched a nerve. Sure pal. 

[sadoldgit]

49 minutes ago, egg said:

Why? Because there's too much focus on posters on a bloody serious thread. Sure, Whelks "witch smeller" comment was unnecessary, and whilst I agreed largely with the relevant part of your post, your other point just inviting a row wasn't necessary either imo. I understand the sentiment though. There's nothing funny about your serious posts and I view those reactions, ditto th confused ones, as a reflection of those reacting. 

I don’t disagree with your point about focus being on posters, but this has been going on for years sadly and, let’s be honest, starts from those of a far right or “anti woke” persuasion most of the time

I didn’t catch the date, but I just heard that their was a Pro Brexit March a few years ago London on Armistice Day that ended with speeches in Trafalgar Square. I am guessing that Tommy Robinson, his fellow brown shirts and all those who are wringing their hands over today’s March in support if a ceasefire in Gaza probably didn’t kick off about that one?

With today’s violence against the police, surely the Home Secretary has to take a lot of responsibility for the hate she has stirred up against the very people she is a government minister for and must now be removed from office.

[Turkish]

6 minutes ago, sadoldgit said:

I don’t disagree with your point about focus being on posters, but this has been going on for years sadly and, let’s be honest, starts from those of a far right or “anti woke” persuasion most of the time

I didn’t catch the date, but I just heard that their was a Pro Brexit March a few years ago London on Armistice Day that ended with speeches in Trafalgar Square. I am guessing that Tommy Robinson, his fellow brown shirts and all those who are wringing their hands over today’s March in support if a ceasefire in Gaza probably didn’t kick off about that one?

With today’s violence against the police, surely the Home Secretary has to take a lot of responsibility for the hate she has stirred up against the very people she is a government minister for and must now be removed from office.

What about the violence against the police last week? Why are you ignoring that?

[egg]

2 minutes ago, Turkish said:

What about the violence against the police last week? Why are you ignoring that?

What's that got to do with today Del? People are protesting, and some dicks are being dicks. What's your point? 

[Turkish]

Just now, egg said:

What's that got to do with today Del? People are protesting, and some dicks are being dicks. What's your point? 

Two points which I thought would be fairly obvious

allowing the Palestine march today was obviously going to be a recipe for disaster, so it’s proven, we did this earlier in the week and people didn’t seem to want to believe it.

Secondly, Sog is quick to jump on the trouble today, blame the far right, blame the tories, blame, blame, blame. Funnily enough not a word about it last week. I wonder why?

[egg]

1 minute ago, Turkish said:

Two points which I thought would be fairly obvious

allowing the Palestine march today was obviously going to be a recipe for disaster, so it’s proven, we did this earlier in the week and people didn’t seem to want to believe it.

Secondly, Sog is quick to jump on the trouble today, blame the far right, blame the tories, blame, blame, blame. Funnily enough not a word about it last week. I wonder why?

But your point was that we had some violence last week. We'll have it at every major march where some dicks will kick off. It's always the case. 

Do you agree that Braverman has stirred things up? 

I'm not getting into a SoG discussion. It's tiresome. There's a big enough discussion to discuss. 

[Turkish]

Just now, egg said:

But your point was that we had some violence last week. We'll have it at every major march where some dicks will kick off. It's always the case. 

Do you agree that Braverman has stirred things up? 

I'm not getting into a SoG discussion. It's tiresome. There's a big enough discussion to discuss. 

Yes she stirred things up, she’s not fit for purpose, we all know that. Don’t need to read it every other post on here.

what’s stirred it up more though was letting the marches happen in the first place. Do you agree?

[egg]

1 minute ago, Turkish said:

Yes she stirred things up, she’s not fit for purpose, we all know that. Don’t need to read it every other post on here.

what’s stirred it up more though was letting the marches happen in the first place. Do you agree?

No. 

[Turkish]

2 minutes ago, egg said:

No. 

So you think allowing large protests on armistice day wasn’t going to cause issues with counter protests?

Let’s be blunt here, they weee going to happen if regardless of if braverman opened her trap or not

Edited 11 November, 2023 by Turkish

[egg]

Just now, Turkish said:

So you think allowing large protests on armistice day wasn’t going to cause issues with counter protests?

You said yourself that there's been violence at previous protests (last week) so it's obvious that there would be at any future marches, whatever else was happening that day. 

The met agreed that it should proceed. 

Armistice organisers agreed that it should proceed.

Braverman through fuel on the fire. 

[Turkish]

2 minutes ago, egg said:

You said yourself that there's been violence at previous protests (last week) so it's obvious that there would be at any future marches, whatever else was happening that day. 

The met agreed that it should proceed. 

Armistice organisers agreed that it should proceed.

Braverman through fuel on the fire. 

The met are wrong. No way should it have been allowed and so it’s proven. 

[egg]

4 minutes ago, Turkish said:

The met are wrong. No way should it have been allowed and so it’s proven. 

We'll never know how it would have gone if Braverman hadn't said what she said. My suspicion is a nowhere near as bad.

The issue is the counter protests. In terms of the protest itself, the BBC have said "The protest itself remains peaceful. It is being well marshalled and police officers - from various forces - appear to be containing situations well."

 

Sounds like it's not shutting down the counter protest that was the wrong decision. What did Braverman say about that one? 

 

Edited 11 November, 2023 by egg

[Turkish]

4 minutes ago, egg said:

We'll never know how it would have gone if Braverman hadn't said what she said. My suspicion is a nowhere near as bad.

The issue is the counter protests. In terms of the protest itself, the BBC have said "The protest itself remains peaceful. It is being well marshalled and police officers - from various forces - appear to be containing situations well."

 

Sounds like it's not shutting down the counter protest that was the wrong decision. What did Braverman say about that one? 

 

 

Yep The issue is the counter protest, which wouldn’t be happening if the original protest had, rightly, not been allowed to happen today. 
 

as for how it would have gone without her, that’s pure speculation, she should have kept her gob shut, I’m going to however speculate that they would still have happened, given there was talk about before she spoke. 

[hypochondriac]

Met police on X full of posts of antisemitism. It's not a surprise but it is depressing. 

Edited 11 November, 2023 by hypochondriac

[hypochondriac]

Appaling from the fringe loons 

[egg]

2 minutes ago, Turkish said:

Yep The issue is the counter protest, which wouldn’t be happening if the original protest had, rightly, not been allowed to happen today. 
 

as for how it would have gone without her, that’s pure speculation, she should have kept her gob shut, I’m going to however speculate that they would still have happened, given there was talk about before she spoke. 

I think she turned a likely shit show into a much bigger shit show. However you cut it, there will be trouble at any mass protests, and there'll always be an increase in volume when someone turns it up. 

[badgerx16]

2 hours ago, hypochondriac said:

Appaling from the fringe loons 

Yes it is, and they will get disproportionate media coverage.

[badgerx16]

The Met have said that the AI generated audio pretending to be by Sadiq Khan is not a crime. I wonder if they will investigate the deepfake posing as Home Secretary.

[hypochondriac]

7 minutes ago, badgerx16 said:

Yes it is, and they will get disproportionate media coverage.

I expect they were encouraged by the majority of organisers having links to a terrorist organisation. There's so much video footage and images. Racism and anti-semitism loads of these people proudly walking through the streets of london. Just repugnant. 

[badgerx16]

11 minutes ago, hypochondriac said:

I expect they were encouraged by the majority of organisers having links to a terrorist organisation. There's so much video footage and images. Racism and anti-semitism loads of these people proudly walking through the streets of london. Just repugnant. 

Don't let SOGgy see that first picture.

[rallyboy]

Those are disgraceful photos, it's good to see the 300,000 Hate Marchers exposed for what they all are in a very balanced delivery of the news.

And I've just seen some footage of Tommy's plucky football lads bravely kicking the fuck out of the police so they could protect the Cenotaph from people who might kick the fuck out of the police.

Heroes, one and all.

Sorry, that was a typo it was meant to say racist cunts.

[hypochondriac]

Imagine being an Israeli living in London and seeing these images in the capital city. I hope these antisemites and racist are forcefully dealt with. 

[aintforever]

Those banners are disgusting but what sort of cunt spends Armistice day getting pissed up, fighting the police and shouting racist abuse. Absolute scum.

[badgerx16]

Damned anti-semites;

Edited 11 November, 2023 by badgerx16

[hypochondriac]

12 minutes ago, aintforever said:

Those banners are disgusting but what sort of cunt spends Armistice day getting pissed up, fighting the police and shouting racist abuse. Absolute scum.

Indeed. Complete cunts on both sides it seems. 

[egg]

What was the proportion of idiots to well behaved protestors? I'd hazard a guess that it was extremely low. 

[hypochondriac]

6 minutes ago, egg said:

What was the proportion of idiots to well behaved protestors? I'd hazard a guess that it was extremely low. 

There were enough antisemites and racists for it to be a serious problem. 

[harvey]

1 hour ago, rallyboy said:

Those are disgraceful photos, it's good to see the 300,000 Hate Marchers exposed for what they all are in a very balanced delivery of the news.

And I've just seen some footage of Tommy's plucky football lads bravely kicking the fuck out of the police so they could protect the Cenotaph from people who might kick the fuck out of the police.

Heroes, one and all.

Sorry, that was a typo it was meant to say racist cunts.

I see it's always the far left that are quick to accuse some people of being racist when maybe they should be looking closer to home?.

Seriously though, how has it come that you have to be either 'far right' or 'far left'?...many years ago people had differing opinions but there was no venom or vitriol expressed toward either side. Maybe times have changed, but not for the better.

Social media I guess.

[Fan The Flames]

Waiting for Hypo to post disgraceful scenes from the EDL boys.

[whelk]

roll on facial recognition and take out some of these cunts.

[whelk]

Ok I have had a few drinks but would be nice if the extremists on both sides could beat each other to death 

Edited 11 November, 2023 by whelk

[hypochondriac]

1 hour ago, Fan The Flames said:

Waiting for Hypo to post disgraceful scenes from the EDL boys.

Can't say I've seen many racist signs worth highlighting from the counter protestors. I heard some pricks were assaulting some police and chanting about being England till they die and like I said quite a few cunts on both sides which is why there were so many arrests. 

[badgerx16]

Those anti-semites get everywhere, with their talk of genocide;

https://www.ncronline.org/news/jewish-led-demonstrations-gaza-cease-fire-see-hundreds-arrested-capitol

 

"Among the demonstrators was Rabbi Linda Holtzman, who is based in Philadelphia and serves on the faculty of the Reconstructionist Rabbinical College. In a news conference and a separate interview with Religion News Service before the protest, she said she was one of at least two dozen rabbis who had come to the Capitol to participate. She framed their participation as a matter of faith.

"We are united in knowing that our Judaism calls us to stand up for justice, and to demand that our government do whatever possible to bring about a cease-fire to end the killing," she said.

She also, like many speakers and demonstrators, used the term "genocide" to describe the potential impact of a land invasion of Gaza by Israeli forces.

"I believe that demanding justice for all is at the heart of what it means to be Jewish," she told reporters. "When I see a genocide happening, all of those values are strong and are clear to me and demand that I speak out.""

Edited 12 November, 2023 by badgerx16

[Fan The Flames]

6 hours ago, hypochondriac said:

Can't say I've seen many racist signs worth highlighting from the counter protestors. I heard some pricks were assaulting some police and chanting about being England till they die and like I said quite a few cunts on both sides which is why there were so many arrests. 

Your condemnation is a bit lopsided.

[egg]

16 minutes ago, Fan The Flames said:

Your condemnation is a bit lopsided.

Which is odd given that hundreds of counter-protest demonstrators had "seemed intent on confrontation and intent on violence", but that they have issued photos of only three individuals it suspects of antisemitic hate crimes during the protest. That's 3 out of 300,000 or 0.0001% of the pro Palestine protestors who the police deem worthy of speaking to in the.

Braverman needs to go after her words. On that, the Met boss said tensions had been increased by "a week of intense debate about protest and policing". He's being generous with his words. Keir Starmer was spot on though when he said "few people in public life" had recently done more to "whip up division, set the British people against one another and sow the seeds of hatred and distrust" than Braverman. 

Disgraceful scenes yesterday, mostly from the counter protesters who came along for a scrap. 

 

 

 

[hypochondriac]

52 minutes ago, Fan The Flames said:

Your condemnation is a bit lopsided.

Feel free to share photos of offensive or racist slogans from counter protestors and I'll condemn them. I didn't see any which is why I didn't post them on here. Fact is the counter protestors wouldn't be there if there weren't Hamas supporting elements in the protest march. 

[TheAlehouseBrawlers]

I'm certainly not sticking up for the counter-demo extremists but it was far easier to Police and make arrests in a relatively small concentrated group (that was more likely mostly intent on causing trouble). There's clearly extremists on the 'Peace March' too but in a crowd of 300,000 it would be easy to just quickly disappear amongst the genuine protesters if needed.

[hypochondriac]

28 minutes ago, egg said:

Which is odd given that hundreds of counter-protest demonstrators had "seemed intent on confrontation and intent on violence", but that they have issued photos of only three individuals it suspects of antisemitic hate crimes during the protest. That's 3 out of 300,000 or 0.0001% of the pro Palestine protestors who the police deem worthy of speaking to in the.

Braverman needs to go after her words. On that, the Met boss said tensions had been increased by "a week of intense debate about protest and policing". He's being generous with his words. Keir Starmer was spot on though when he said "few people in public life" had recently done more to "whip up division, set the British people against one another and sow the seeds of hatred and distrust" than Braverman. 

Disgraceful scenes yesterday, mostly from the counter protesters who came along for a scrap. 

 

 

 

Mostly from the counter protestors? Your condemnation is a bit lopsided. 

[Fan The Flames]

7 minutes ago, hypochondriac said:

Feel free to share photos of offensive or racist slogans from counter protestors and I'll condemn them. I didn't see any which is why I didn't post them on here. Fact is the counter protestors wouldn't be there if there weren't Hamas supporting elements in the protest march. 

You think it's just about banners and placards.

I disagree with your reason why the counter protestors are there, either way the reason they came is redundant in this discussion because it doesn't excuse their behaviour.

 

[AlexLaw76]

Little was brought up about this from the great and the good. I guess it was harder to blame a Tory

https://news.sky.com/story/four-police-officers-injured-after-pro-palestinian-protesters-fire-fireworks-into-crowd-13000924

[Fan The Flames]

I'm interested to hear Suellas take on the policing yesterday, does she think the police were even handed?

She is Home Secretary and her ridiculous posturing has got herself in position where she can't comment on a high profile demonstration and condemn the behaviour of some counter protestors and protestors. She can't do her job.

[egg]

2 minutes ago, Fan The Flames said:

You think it's just about banners and placards.

I disagree with your reason why the counter protestors are there, either way the reason they came is redundant in this discussion because it doesn't excuse their behaviour.

 

Some see what they want to.

It's obvious to anyone objective that all but a tiny minority of the pro Palestine protestors came to protest peacefully and respectfully, and did, but that a great many more of the counter protestors came to cause to trouble, and did. 

The police have only deemed 3 of the l pro Palestine placards illegal. 3, out of 300,000. 

I spotted scores of counter protestors kicking off and inciting violence.

Braverman whipped up the counter protesters and needs to pay the price. 

[hypochondriac]

6 minutes ago, Fan The Flames said:

You think it's just about banners and placards.

I disagree with your reason why the counter protestors are there, either way the reason they came is redundant in this discussion because it doesn't excuse their behaviour.

 

I think banners and placards make it much clearer why someone is at an event and their antisemitism and racism are obvious. Much easier to display that on a forum than for example a group of rowdy blokes singing baiut England till they die. If the protests didn't exist then the football lads alliance or whoever they were wouldn't have been there either so I'm not sure how you can disagree with that it's just a fact. Among the counter protestors there would be racist scum, some thick people along for the ride, some people who hate the police riled up by braverman's comments and also some people outraged by what they had seen on previous protests and wanting to make a show of defiance against that. 

Regarding balance, I'd argue in the current climate it's right to be more concerned about the rise of antisemitism and hate attacks against Jews than a handful of thick blokes attacking the police. If we get regular counter protests from these sorts then I agree it's a worry but at the moment it looked like a one off event on remembrance day. 

 

[Fan The Flames]

5 minutes ago, AlexLaw76 said:

Little was brought up about this from the great and the good. I guess it was harder to blame a Tory

https://news.sky.com/story/four-police-officers-injured-after-pro-palestinian-protesters-fire-fireworks-into-crowd-13000924

Are you really expecting commentary on every incident. 

I know hypo is in the process of cataloging all the unacceptable protestors banners. Maybe you could catalogue all the unacceptable behaviour by the protestors.

[AlexLaw76]

6 minutes ago, Fan The Flames said:

I'm interested to hear Suellas take on the policing yesterday, does she think the police were even handed?

She is Home Secretary and her ridiculous posturing has got herself in position where she can't comment on a high profile demonstration and condemn the behaviour of some counter protestors and protestors. She can't do her job.

This is exactly why this country is in a race to the bottom. Lots of demonstrations, words, for an issue that is nothing to do with us, taking place way off in another country. Politicians falling over themselves to say the right thing (to their voters), and the responses to each word, demanding resignations, it's amusing to watch.

Demonstrations, and the poilitiking that goes with it, is probably not even hitting the lunchtime news in down town Tel Aviv

Edited 12 November, 2023 by AlexLaw76

[AlexLaw76]

4 minutes ago, egg said:

 

Braverman whipped up the counter protesters and needs to pay the price. 

Was it her fault police were injured and pelted with fireworks a week ago?

Edited 12 November, 2023 by AlexLaw76

[egg]

1 minute ago, AlexLaw76 said:

Was it her fault police were injured and pelted with fireworks a week ago?

Lots of things weren't her fault. Yesterday was. 

[AlexLaw76]

Just now, egg said:

Lots of things weren't her fault. Yesterday was. 

Righto.

Who should resign for last weeks' largely peaceful firework display?

Edited 12 November, 2023 by AlexLaw76

[egg]

3 minutes ago, AlexLaw76 said:

 

Demonstrations, and the poilitiking that goes with it, is probably not even hitting the lunchtime news in down town Tel Aviv

Of course it won't be, but it'll hit Biden, the EU leaders who've yet to side with France and Belgium, and other Western leaders. There were other massive protests yesterday too. The point is being made, despite some daft politicians and violent counter protesters best efforts. 

[hypochondriac]

5 minutes ago, Fan The Flames said:

Are you really expecting commentary on every incident. 

I know hypo is in the process of cataloging all the unacceptable protestors banners. Maybe you could catalogue all the unacceptable behaviour by the protestors.

It's definitely worth highlighting when some people try to downplay the appaling messaging and rank antisemitism as a tiny minority. Here's another of that tiny minority. Does that equate to "scores" now? I'd say it's up there.