Israel

[Weston Super Saint]

9 minutes ago, egg said:

Where's this bit in the article I posted? 

"The time(16) will not come until Muslims will fight the Jews (and kill them); until the Jews hide behind rocks and trees, which will cry: 0 Muslim! there is a Jew hiding behind me, come on and kill him! This will not apply to the Gharqad(17), which is a Jewish tree (cited by Bukhari and Muslim)(18)".

There is a world of difference between killing those infidels that Hamas are in conflict with, and all Jews. Don't get me wrong, the 7/10 attacks and the subsequent threat suggests that Hamas see any Jew/Israeli as fair game.

Anyways, no point in getting bogged down on this. We both agree that Hamas are evil. What we won't agree on is that the Israeli government are evil in a different way. 

That is taken from the literal translation of the Charter of Hamas.  I've posted the link to that Charter several times but it is here

As stated previously, Hamas conflates Israel with Jews and Jews (Zionists) with Israel.  They are happy to follow them round the globe and eliminate them when they expand - again, evidence of this in the article quotes above.

As for the bit about Israel being evil, I agree entirely.  They want to wipe Hamas from the map.  Hamas gave them the opportunity to do that with (some) impunity on 7/10. I agree they have the right to defend themselves.  I don't think indiscriminate bombing is the answer, but I've said before that war is dirty business.

I also don't believe the current actions will create more 'martyrs' in the future.  Look at Hiroshima.  Despicable action killing hundreds of thousands of innocent people, but it ended the war and potentially saved the loss of millions more lives.  It didn't turn Japan into a nation hell bent on revenge.

Edited 2 November, 2023 by Weston Super Saint

[hypochondriac]

Just now, egg said:

Where's this bit in the article I posted? 

"The time(16) will not come until Muslims will fight the Jews (and kill them); until the Jews hide behind rocks and trees, which will cry: 0 Muslim! there is a Jew hiding behind me, come on and kill him! This will not apply to the Gharqad(17), which is a Jewish tree (cited by Bukhari and Muslim)(18)".

There is a world of difference between killing those infidels that Hamas are in conflict with, and all Jews. Don't get me wrong, the 7/10 attacks and the subsequent threat suggests that Hamas see any Jew/Israeli as fair game.

Anyways, no point in getting bogged down on this. We both agree that Hamas are evil. What we won't agree on is that the Israeli government are evil in a different way. 

 

'The Day of Judgment will not come about until Moslems fight Jews and kill them. Then, the Jews will hide behind rocks and trees, and the rocks and trees will cry out: 'O Moslem, there is a Jew hiding behind me, come and kill him.' (Article 7)

 

You're trying to suggest that when they say they will fight "the Jews and kill them" that they are only talking about some Jews that they have a problem with? It doesn't say that. Regardless, like you say they don't make a distinction in practice so it's irrelevant even if you want to argue with the words on the page. It seems like you're picking a fight over your interpretation of the words "the Jews" and thinking that it means something over than "the Jews."

[hypochondriac]

Just now, rallyboy said:

Of course I do, there have definitely been anti-semitic people on the left, as there are across the whole of UK society, it's a sad fact.

But your sweeping claim was

Loads of people on the left have a history of antisemitism 

Which is clearly bollocks, and you know that, because you downgraded that lazy claim to a more accurate 'some', pretty sharpish and then tried to drag the debate off somewhere else as a distraction, which was nice.

Imagine if Soggy claimed that loads of Tories are sex offenders.

We know that some are, but not a large number, so you and his fan club would be all over him for that.

Language matters, especially when it is a key weapon during conflict.

🙂

 

So it's your subjective definition of the word loads that you have a problem with. I said from the outset it was a not insignificant amount. In the hundreds at the very least which meets my definition of loads but I'm happy to use the word some if it makes you happier with it. Quite a number of people on the left have a history of antisemitism and it would be foolish to suggest otherwise. 

[badgerx16]

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-67294809

"M&S has apologised after being accused of posting an Instagram photo of Christmas party hats in the colours of the Palestinian flag on fire. "

 

[Weston Super Saint]

31 minutes ago, badgerx16 said:

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-67294809

"M&S has apologised after being accused of posting an Instagram photo of Christmas party hats in the colours of the Palestinian flag on fire. "

 

Apparently the ad was shot in August so it must be a deep rooted hatred from M&S.  Won't stop the boycott calls though!

Maybe they'll have some mice released in their stores dyed the Palestinian flag colours like McDonalds did yesterday!

[whelk]

12 minutes ago, Weston Super Saint said:

Apparently the ad was shot in August so it must be a deep rooted hatred from M&S.  Won't stop the boycott calls though!

Maybe they'll have some mice released in their stores dyed the Palestinian flag colours like McDonalds did yesterday!

I stopped shopping there when I came across a bag of Midget Gems. Coming across such violence when going out for a loaf of bread is not something I expect

[whelk]

1 hour ago, Weston Super Saint said:

worthy of only humiliation and lives of misery"

Does it mention supporting Saints?

[egg]

2 hours ago, Weston Super Saint said:

That is taken from the literal translation of the Charter of Hamas.  I've posted the link to that Charter several times but it is here

As stated previously, Hamas conflates Israel with Jews and Jews (Zionists) with Israel.  They are happy to follow them round the globe and eliminate them when they expand - again, evidence of this in the article quotes above.

As for the bit about Israel being evil, I agree entirely.  They want to wipe Hamas from the map.  Hamas gave them the opportunity to do that with (some) impunity on 7/10. I agree they have the right to defend themselves.  I don't think indiscriminate bombing is the answer, but I've said before that war is dirty business.

I also don't believe the current actions will create more 'martyrs' in the future.  Look at Hiroshima.  Despicable action killing hundreds of thousands of innocent people, but it ended the war and potentially saved the loss of millions more lives.  It didn't turn Japan into a nation hell bent on revenge.

And the text that I've referred to, and the large document I've linked to, comes from ITIC who are an Israeli based research group with links to the IDF. I think it reasonable to assume that they wouldn't translate in favour of Hamas.

Hamas want land. They want Jews to live a life of misery. You can't want people to live any sort of life if you apparently want them dead. 

 

[sadoldgit]

35 minutes ago, egg said:

And the text that I've referred to, and the large document I've linked to, comes from ITIC who are an Israeli based research group with links to the IDF. I think it reasonable to assume that they wouldn't translate in favour of Hamas.

Hamas want land. They want Jews to live a life of misery. You can't want people to live any sort of life if you apparently want them dead. 

 

It really isn’t that hard to understand is it? If Hamas is so intent on killing Jewish people, why aren’t they going after the softer targets in Jewish communities in other countries? If that is their sole aim they really aren’t making a very good job of it are they?

This is about land.

[whelk]

So is the argument now Hamas aren’t too bad?

[whelk]

4 minutes ago, sadoldgit said:

It really isn’t that hard to understand is it? If Hamas is so intent on killing Jewish people, why aren’t they going after the softer targets in Jewish communities in other countries? If that is their sole aim they really aren’t making a very good job of it are they?

This is about land.

You are fucking comical. 

[egg]

4 minutes ago, whelk said:

So is the argument now Hamas aren’t too bad?

Nope. They're cunts. It's the suggestion that they want all Jews dead. Something that they couldn't do even if that was their stated aim. 

[Lighthouse]

20 minutes ago, sadoldgit said:

It really isn’t that hard to understand is it? If Hamas is so intent on killing Jewish people, why aren’t they going after the softer targets in Jewish communities in other countries? If that is their sole aim they really aren’t making a very good job of it are they?

This is about land.

What, you mean like an aeroplane landing in Makhachkala?

[hypochondriac]

53 minutes ago, whelk said:

So is the argument now Hamas aren’t too bad?

Seems to be. Just misunderstood bless em. 

[hypochondriac]

50 minutes ago, egg said:

Nope. They're cunts. It's the suggestion that they want all Jews dead. Something that they couldn't do even if that was their stated aim. 

It's why they stated they wanted to kill "the Jews." you've just ignored it because it isn't on your specific website link and doesn't suit your narrative. Wehtehr they have the capability to do it or not is a different question. 

Edited 2 November, 2023 by hypochondriac

[Lord Duckhunter]

21 hours ago, hypochondriac said:

I was talking about some on the lefts problem with it and why they believe it. It's something different from the right with different motivations as baddiel seeks to outline. 

Somebody said the other day. 
 

“The far right deny the holocaust ever happened & the far left want it re enacted”. 
 

 

[sadoldgit]

1 hour ago, egg said:

Nope. They're cunts. It's the suggestion that they want all Jews dead. Something that they couldn't do even if that was their stated aim. 

But there is only one bunch of bad guys here! 🙄

Apparently this is a direct quote from the Israeli Minister of Heritage, Amichai Eliyahu.

”North Gaza is more beautiful than ever. Blowing up everything is amazing. When finished we will hand over the lands of Gaza to soldiers who lived in Gush Katif”.

Also Amnesty International has verified that the IDF has used white phosphorus against civilians in Gaza and Lebanon. When this was originally put to the IDF they denied it.

I realise that by posting these I am someone claiming that Hamas aren’t so bad after all. 

[AlexLaw76]

4 minutes ago, sadoldgit said:

But there is only one bunch of bad guys here! 🙄

Apparently this is a direct quote from the Israeli Minister of Heritage, Amichai Eliyahu.

”North Gaza is more beautiful than ever. Blowing up everything is amazing. When finished we will hand over the lands of Gaza to soldiers who lived in Gush Katif”.

Also Amnesty International has verified that the IDF has used white phosphorus against civilians in Gaza and Lebanon. When this was originally put to the IDF they denied it.

I realise that by posting these I am someone claiming that Hamas aren’t so bad after all. 

is it, or not?

[whelk]

18 minutes ago, sadoldgit said:

But there is only one bunch of bad guys here!

So you are ready to update the missus?

[badgerx16]

There has to be a better way;

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-middle-east-67292422

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-middle-east-67277205

[benjii]

This guy is a complete piece of shit and it's this sort of nonsense that creates support and sustenance for organisations like Hamas, not seem genocidal fervour amongst Muslim populations.

 

 

[Weston Super Saint]

3 hours ago, egg said:

Nope. They're cunts. It's the suggestion that they want all Jews dead. Something that they couldn't do even if that was their stated aim. 

It was their stated aim - article 7 in the Hamas charter.

Whether they can achieve it or not is irrelevant, but they've definitely made a start.

[badgerx16]

53 minutes ago, benjii said:

This guy is a complete piece of shit and it's this sort of nonsense that creates support and sustenance for organisations like Hamas, not seem genocidal fervour amongst Muslim populations.

 

 

Why, at this time, is Netanyahu appointing a ultra-nationalist suspected of the arson of a mosque to such a position ? I think it shows his attitude towards all Palestinians, or perhaps his arm is being twisted up his back by the zealots propping up his coalition.

[egg]

2 hours ago, Weston Super Saint said:

It was their stated aim - article 7 in the Hamas charter.

Whether they can achieve it or not is irrelevant, but they've definitely made a start.

It wasn't. This misinformation is dangerous., and you're pushing forward a message that's not even supported by Israeli produced material.

See this article produced by the Israeli government regarding the Hamas charter...https://embassies.gov.il/holysee/AboutIsrael/the-middle-east/Pages/The%20Hamas-Covenant.aspx

It emphasises that:

"HAMAS goal of destroying the State of Israel through Jihad (Islamic Holy War). The following are excerpts of the HAMAS Covenant:"

'Hail to Jihad!'. This cry will reach the heavens and will go on being resounded until liberation is achieved, the invaders vanquished and Allah's victory comes about." (Article 33)

It's Jihad against the Israeli state. Not all Jewish people. They want liberation, and the Jews vanquished, not killed.  Sure, some will die in that quest, but it's wrong to keep spouting the nonsense that Hamas want all Jews dead, and that is a bar to peace talks. 

Hopefully you'd accept that the Israeli government probably know what they're fighting against...

 

 

[Weston Super Saint]

10 minutes ago, egg said:

It wasn't. This misinformation is dangerous., and you're pushing forward a message that's not even supported by Israeli produced material.

See this article produced by the Israeli government regarding the Hamas charter...https://embassies.gov.il/holysee/AboutIsrael/the-middle-east/Pages/The%20Hamas-Covenant.aspx

It emphasises that:

"HAMAS goal of destroying the State of Israel through Jihad (Islamic Holy War). The following are excerpts of the HAMAS Covenant:"

'Hail to Jihad!'. This cry will reach the heavens and will go on being resounded until liberation is achieved, the invaders vanquished and Allah's victory comes about." (Article 33)

It's Jihad against the Israeli state. Not all Jewish people. They want liberation, and the Jews vanquished, not killed.  Sure, some will die in that quest, but it's wrong to keep spouting the nonsense that Hamas want all Jews dead, and that is a bar to peace talks. 

Hopefully you'd accept that the Israeli government probably know what they're fighting against...

 

 

They also state that they will eradicate the Jews wherever they try to expand, so yes, you are right that the current Jihad is about taking the land, but they clearly reserve the right to take land and eradicate the Jews wherever they go next.

This isn't misinformation, it is clearly written in the charter - although I can understand why an Israeli backed article would highlight only the current Jihad and not muddy the waters with the future intentions as that works in their favour right now....

[hypochondriac]

1 minute ago, Weston Super Saint said:

They also state that they will eradicate the Jews wherever they try to expand, so yes, you are right that the current Jihad is about taking the land, but they clearly reserve the right to take land and eradicate the Jews wherever they go next.

This isn't misinformation, it is clearly written in the charter - although I can understand why an Israeli backed article would highlight only the current Jihad and not muddy the waters with the future intentions as that works in their favour right now....

Of course it's not misinformation. What a patronising thing to say. As if egg knows the truth of things just because he can use Google like everyone else. It's clear what it says and he's ignoring it and pretending it doesn't say that to suit his agenda. This type of misinformation and watering down of Hamas intentions is dangerous and may result in them being made to seem more sympathetic than they actually are. 

[badgerx16]

3 hours ago, Weston Super Saint said:

It was their stated aim - article 7 in the Hamas charter.

Whether they can achieve it or not is irrelevant, but they've definitely made a start.

Hamas' stated aim is the total liberation of Palestine and the establishment of a state therein that follows Sharia Law - "From the river to the sea" in effect. The quote about killing Jews, etc, is one selected quote from their scriptures, used to justify the removal of Jews from the area as it is historically Islamic, and remains so in perpetuity; elsewhere in their Charter they outline that Christians AND Jews are welcome to live under Islamic rule if they are willing to subject themselves to it, but their own religious practices will be tolerated as they form 'brother' religions.

[egg]

6 minutes ago, Weston Super Saint said:

They also state that they will eradicate the Jews wherever they try to expand, so yes, you are right that the current Jihad is about taking the land, but they clearly reserve the right to take land and eradicate the Jews wherever they go next.

This isn't misinformation, it is clearly written in the charter - although I can understand why an Israeli backed article would highlight only the current Jihad and not muddy the waters with the future intentions as that works in their favour right now....

Every article I read on the charter is about land, not the killing of Jews. That seems to be a social media interpretation. You'd think that the Israeli's wouldn't down play it, but any charter that seeks for jewish people to live in misery plainly doesn't want them all dead - those 2 positions are incompatible!

Anyways, where we do agree is that Hamas are scum, and that the Israeli's ain't behaved brilliantly either. Hopefully there's a resolution and peace at some point. 

 

[hypochondriac]

12 minutes ago, badgerx16 said:

Hamas' stated aim is the total liberation of Palestine and the establishment of a state therein that follows Sharia Law - "From the river to the sea" in effect. The quote about killing Jews, etc, is one selected quote from their scriptures, used to justify the removal of Jews from the area as it is historically Islamic, and remains so in perpetuity; elsewhere in their Charter they outline that Christians AND Jews are welcome to live under Islamic rule if they are willing to subject themselves to it, but their own religious practices will be tolerated as they form 'brother' religions.

Here's an excerpt from a 2019 article from Hamas: 

we will explode in the face of our enemies, with God's permission. The explosion is not only going to be in Gaza but also in the West Bank and abroad, God willing," Hamad said.

"But our brothers outside are preparing, trying to prepare, warming up."

He continued: "Seven million Palestinians outside, enough warming up, you have Jews with you in every place. You should attack every Jew possible in all the world and kill them."

 

So seemingly not just a land dispute but all Jews in the world. Interesting. 

[badgerx16]

23 minutes ago, hypochondriac said:

Here's an excerpt from a 2019 article from Hamas: 

we will explode in the face of our enemies, with God's permission. The explosion is not only going to be in Gaza but also in the West Bank and abroad, God willing," Hamad said.

"But our brothers outside are preparing, trying to prepare, warming up."

He continued: "Seven million Palestinians outside, enough warming up, you have Jews with you in every place. You should attack every Jew possible in all the world and kill them."

 

So seemingly not just a land dispute but all Jews in the world. Interesting. 

But not in their charter, which is what is being claimed.

[whelk]

Fuck me some desperate people on this thread

[Lord Duckhunter]

I genuinely can’t believe people think Hamas would stop murdering Jews if a Palestinian state was established that stretched  “from the river to the sea”.
 

The vast vast majority of them are anti semitic evil monsters. What do people think they’re going to do once this state is established, run a shop. Become a roofer or maybe a painter & decorator. Perhaps they’ll retire to a peaceful life farming the land, or become taxi drivers. All whilst their “brother religion” neighbours leave a quiet happy life beside them. “Where to Solomon”, asks friendly cabbie Ibrahim, “to the synagogue my good man” ….

[egg]

20 minutes ago, Lord Duckhunter said:

I genuinely can’t believe people think Hamas would stop murdering Jews if a Palestinian state was established that stretched  “from the river to the sea”.
 

The vast vast majority of them are anti semitic evil monsters. What do people think they’re going to do once this state is established, run a shop. Become a roofer or maybe a painter & decorator. Perhaps they’ll retire to a peaceful life farming the land, or become taxi drivers. All whilst their “brother religion” neighbours leave a quiet happy life beside them. “Where to Solomon”, asks friendly cabbie Ibrahim, “to the synagogue my good man” ….

Do what then? Fuck all, and carry on as we have been for the last 50 + years?  Doesn't sound like much of a plan. 

I can't believe that anyone genuinely thinks there'd be more trouble if the Palestinians and Israelis lived in adjacent states rather than the Palestinians living as they are in the west bank. Seems pretty obvious that things would improve. 

 

[whelk]

So a feature on the news talking about Muslims deserting Labour over Starmer’s stance on not calling for a ceasefire. Assume SOG will show solidarity with his brethren and follow suit? 
Interesting how media focus so much on Labour position on this issue.  

[AlexLaw76]

Let’s insist on negotiation. He looks like an approachable chap

https://x.com/memrireports/status/1719662664090075199?s=46

[Fan The Flames]

Labour are always subject to far more scrutiny than the tories.

[Fan The Flames]

10 minutes ago, AlexLaw76 said:

Let’s insist on negotiation. He looks like an approachable chap

https://x.com/memrireports/status/1719662664090075199?s=46

Déjà vu.

[Weston Super Saint]

11 hours ago, hypochondriac said:

Here's an excerpt from a 2019 article from Hamas: 

we will explode in the face of our enemies, with God's permission. The explosion is not only going to be in Gaza but also in the West Bank and abroad, God willing," Hamad said.

"But our brothers outside are preparing, trying to prepare, warming up."

He continued: "Seven million Palestinians outside, enough warming up, you have Jews with you in every place. You should attack every Jew possible in all the world and kill them."

 

So seemingly not just a land dispute but all Jews in the world. Interesting. 

 

11 hours ago, badgerx16 said:

But not in their charter, which is what is being claimed.

Incorrect.  

Article 32 states :

Quote

Hamas is calling upon the Arab and Islamic peoples to act seriously and tirelessly in order to frustrate that dreadful scheme and to make the masses aware of the danger of coping out of the circle of struggle with Zionism.

Today it is Palestine and tomorrow it may be another country or other countries. For Zionist scheming has no end, and after Palestine they will covet expansion from the Nile to the Euphrates.

Only when they have completed digesting the area on which they will have laid their hand, they will look forward to more expansion, etc. Their scheme has been laid out in the Protocols of the Elders of Zion, and their present [conduct] is the the best proof of what is said there.

They want the Jews dead, all of them and they are happy to follow them wherever they 'expand'.

The 'current' beef is with Jews in Israel.  Once they are done with that and 'eradicated' them all, they'll move on to the next country or countries.

[whelk]

After the Hezbollah fella makes his speech today hope we can find solid documentation that confirms these guys are not bad but splendid fellows just concerned about land equity.

[egg]

14 minutes ago, whelk said:

After the Hezbollah fella makes his speech today hope we can find solid documentation that confirms these guys are not bad but splendid fellows just concerned about land equity.

Ha!! I missed the part where anyone said that Hamas are sweetness and light.

Try harder Whelk. The ability is there. 

[egg]

55 minutes ago, Weston Super Saint said:

55 minutes ago, Weston Super Saint said:

 

Incorrect.  

Article 32 states :

They want the Jews dead, all of them and they are happy to follow them wherever they 'expand'.

The 'current' beef is with Jews in Israel.  Once they are done with that and 'eradicated' them all, they'll move on to the next country or countries.

.

Read back the quote that you're addressing. You misunderstand and misquote what it says and means 

The last bit you quoted has nothing to do with Hamas actions. They are referring to Zionist expansion, and say "Hamas is calling upon the Arab and Islamic peoples to act seriously and tirelessly in order to frustrate that dreadful scheme".

How anyone can misread a clear  wish to "frustrate" the Zionist expansion (something we see daily in the west bank) as a call to kill all Jews, wherever they may be, I do not know. 

 

 

Edited 3 November, 2023 by egg

[badgerx16]

1 hour ago, Weston Super Saint said:

 

Incorrect.  

Article 32 states :

They want the Jews dead, all of them and they are happy to follow them wherever they 'expand'.

The 'current' beef is with Jews in Israel.  Once they are done with that and 'eradicated' them all, they'll move on to the next country or countries.

If the Jews are all dead, why bother offering them a space inside your Islamic Caliphate as followers of a brother religion ?

[Weston Super Saint]

49 minutes ago, egg said:

Read back the quote that you're addressing. You misunderstand and misquote what it says and means 

The last bit you quoted has nothing to do with Hamas actions. They are referring to Zionist expansion, and say "Hamas is calling upon the Arab and Islamic peoples to act seriously and tirelessly in order to frustrate that dreadful scheme".

How anyone can misread a clear  wish to "frustrate" the Zionist expansion (something we see daily in the west bank) as a call to kill all Jews, wherever they may be, I do not know. 

 

 

You interpret it as 'frustrating' - maybe redirecting their post or swapping their wheelies bins around!

Personally, I'm more inclined to believe their 'frustration' refers to Article 7 where the Jihad and Allah's promise is to fight and kill the Jews :

Quote

 

But even if the links have become distant from each other, and even if the obstacles erected by those who revolve in the Zionist orbit, aiming at obstructing the road before the Jihad fighters, have rendered the pursuance of Jihad impossible; nevertheless, the Hamas has been looking forward to implement Allah's promise whatever time it might take.

The prophet, prayer and peace be upon him, said: The time(16) will not come until Muslims will fight the Jews (and kill them); until the Jews hide behind rocks and trees, which will cry: 0 Muslim! there is a Jew hiding behind me, come on and kill him! This will not apply to the Gharqad(17), which is a Jewish tree (cited by Bukhari and Muslim)(18).

 

[egg]

8 minutes ago, badgerx16 said:

If the Jews are all dead, why bother offering them a space inside your Islamic Caliphate as followers of a brother religion ?

Where they can live in misery.

At its simplest, a document that says that it wants Jews to live somewhere, and to live in misery, cannot possibly want them all dead, the two positions are incompatible... especially when it doesn't say that it wants them dead. 

Cue another confused emoji from the easily confused. 

[Weston Super Saint]

11 minutes ago, badgerx16 said:

If the Jews are all dead, why bother offering them a space inside your Islamic Caliphate as followers of a brother religion ?

They can only be a 'brother' religion once they accept Islam as the 'one true religion'.  I think we all know the chances of that happening.

[Weston Super Saint]

1 minute ago, egg said:

Where they can live in misery.

At its simplest, a document that says that it wants Jews to live somewhere, and to live in misery, cannot possibly want them all dead, the two positions are incompatible... especially when it doesn't say that it wants them dead. 

Cue another confused emoji from the easily confused. 

To be fair, having read through the 'charter of Allah', I get the impression from the tone of some of the articles that it was cobbled together by a number (I reckon at least 3) of different people.  One seems overly aggressive, one seems your regular Zealot and one seems almost a pacifist.  But there doesn't seem to be much proof reading that has happened and the person in charge of continuity must have been on leave when they published it.

Maybe it's just different interpretations of Allah's promises throughout the articles, or maybe some articles have been added in to make them seem less mental?

[egg]

12 minutes ago, Weston Super Saint said:

You interpret it as 'frustrating' - maybe redirecting their post or swapping their wheelies bins around!

Personally, I'm more inclined to believe their 'frustration' refers to Article 7 where the Jihad and Allah's promise is to fight and kill the Jews :

 

"Frustrate" is not my interpretation. It's what it says. "Kill" is your interpretation

I posted above a link to the charter, with commentary, produced by the Israeli intelligence and information centre way back in 2006. I also posted a link to another take on it from an Israeli government organisation. Neither of them agree with you. 

Edited 3 November, 2023 by egg

[egg]

2 minutes ago, Weston Super Saint said:

To be fair, having read through the 'charter of Allah', I get the impression from the tone of some of the articles that it was cobbled together by a number (I reckon at least 3) of different people.  One seems overly aggressive, one seems your regular Zealot and one seems almost a pacifist.  But there doesn't seem to be much proof reading that has happened and the person in charge of continuity must have been on leave when they published it.

Maybe it's just different interpretations of Allah's promises throughout the articles, or maybe some articles have been added in to make them seem less mental?

Plus there's different translations.

Whatever, Hamas have changed their tune (or shown true colours) since then. Their actions on 7/10 were abhorrent, and we find ourselves where we do.

 

[sadoldgit]

When Netanyahu is finally brought before The Hague to answer for the allegations of war crimes carried out at his behest, he might take some comfort in the fact that hypochondriac, Duckhunter and Weston will all be in the gallery supporting him.

I’m not sure “but Hamas are the only bad guys here” will work as much of a defence there though no matter how often they trot that rot out here.

How does two wrongs make a right work again?

https://www.amnesty.org/en/latest/news/2023/10/damning-evidence-of-war-crimes-as-israeli-attacks-wipe-out-entire-families-in-gaza/

[AlexLaw76]

51 minutes ago, sadoldgit said:

When Netanyahu is finally brought before The Hague to answer for the allegations of war crimes carried out at his behest, he might take some comfort in the fact that hypochondriac, Duckhunter and Weston will all be in the gallery supporting him.

I’m not sure “but Hamas are the only bad guys here” will work as much of a defence there though no matter how often they trot that rot out here.

How does two wrongs make a right work again?

https://www.amnesty.org/en/latest/news/2023/10/damning-evidence-of-war-crimes-as-israeli-attacks-wipe-out-entire-families-in-gaza/

He will never go to the Hague, the same way Blair didn't, the same way Putin wont, the same way Bush and Obama didn't and the same way Zelensky wont.......you know this... 

It is obvious that you really really really want it to happen though

Edited 3 November, 2023 by AlexLaw76