Israel

[Picard]

Could this be Israel's plan?

 

 

[badgerx16]

1 hour ago, Picard said:

Could this be Israel's plan?

 

 

6 months to 5 years.

This thread will be approaching the Pompey Takeover Saga in size.

[hypochondriac]

11 hours ago, Picard said:

Could this be Israel's plan?

 

 

Sounds pretty intelligent to me. Given what could happen, it seems like a better scenario than many/most alternatives to be honest if they can pull it off. 

[sadoldgit]

The BBC have reported that the Israelis have cut off a road leading to south Gaza from the north with tanks and armoured vehicles. A car was making a three point turn to go back and it was fired on by a tank, killing the family inside.

[Weston Super Saint]

1 hour ago, sadoldgit said:

The BBC have reported that the Israelis have cut off a road leading to south Gaza from the north with tanks and armoured vehicles. A car was making a three point turn to go back and it was fired on by a tank, killing the family inside.

Didn't Israel warn everyone to move from the North of Gaza to the South about 2 weeks ago?

[badgerx16]

9 minutes ago, Weston Super Saint said:

Didn't Israel warn everyone to move from the North of Gaza to the South about 2 weeks ago?

Yes, and they shelled the roads to the south, and also the refugee camps in the south. They know full well that not every non-combatant in the northern part of the Strip was able, let alone willing, to evacuate.

[whelk]

1 hour ago, sadoldgit said:

The BBC have reported that the Israelis have cut off a road leading to south Gaza from the north with tanks and armoured vehicles. A car was making a three point turn to go back and it was fired on by a tank, killing the family inside.

I know you will be desperate to highlight such accounts although have yet to see it on the BBC. How do we know it wasn’t full of Hamas and they ignore instructions to pull over? 

I know the Israelis aren’t above taking out of civilians as collateral damage but there will be many keen for any story to support their narrative - see hospital missile. Hamas more than willing to feed this dis/information to those desperate to highlight.

Edited 30 October, 2023 by whelk

[whelk]

Dagestan: Mob storms Russian airport in search of Jews https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-67258332
 

Does this count as anti-semitism? I appreciate there is no such thing only those unhappy with Israel.

[hypochondriac]

25 minutes ago, whelk said:

I know you will be desperate to highlight such accounts although have yet to see it on the BBC. How do we know it wasn’t full of Hamas and they ignore instructions to pull over? 

I know the Israelis aren’t above taking out of civilians as collateral damage but there will be many keen for any story to support their narrative - see hospital missile. Hamas more than willing to feed this dis/information to those desperate to highlight.

Worth noting as well that the hospital missile story died a death once it became clear that it wasn't something clear cut (and actually a fair bit of evidence that Hamas were responsible.) I wonder if that would have been the case had there been definitive proof that it was the Israelis?

[badgerx16]

24 minutes ago, whelk said:

I know you will be desperate to highlight such accounts although have yet to see it on the BBC. How do we know it wasn’t full of Hamas and they ignore instructions to pull over? 

I know the Israelis aren’t above taking out of civilians as collateral damage but there will be many keen for any story to support their narrative - see hospital missile. Hamas more than willing to feed this dis/information to those desperate to highlight.

The BBC quoting the AFP press agency at 9:26 this morning;

"A video circulating on social media shows a car doing a three-point turn after approaching a tank, only for it to open fire and destroy the vehicle.

"He’s gone, the whole family is gone," shouts one of those at the scene, as he speeds away and yells at other vehicles to turn around"

 

Note; it is now reported that the road is open again.

[Lighthouse]

25 minutes ago, whelk said:

Dagestan: Mob storms Russian airport in search of Jews https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-67258332
 

Does this count as anti-semitism? I appreciate there is no such thing only those unhappy with Israel.

There is no anti-semitism, all the pro-Palestinian protestors are equally upset about the treatment of Uyghurs.

[whelk]

5 minutes ago, Lighthouse said:

There is no anti-semitism, all the pro-Palestinian protestors are equally upset about the treatment of Uyghurs.

Made this point earlier in thread. The injustice crusaders are quite selective in who they crusade against

[sadoldgit]

36 minutes ago, hypochondriac said:

Worth noting as well that the hospital missile story died a death once it became clear that it wasn't something clear cut (and actually a fair bit of evidence that Hamas were responsible.) I wonder if that would have been the case had there been definitive proof that it was the Israelis?

It hasn’t died a death. The New York Times reported last week that the video the Israelis used to show that it was a misfiring rocket from Hamas was well away from the site of the hospital. There seems no absolute proof what caused it yet so that is probably why the story is on the back burner. That and the fact that thousands of innocent people have died in air strikes and ground offensives since so it is now just one of many incidents of innocent people being killed.

I appreciate that you dislike Muslims intensely, but perhaps don’t be so eager to try and play down the multiple killings every day?

[Toadhall Saint]

45 minutes ago, badgerx16 said:

The BBC quoting the AFP press agency at 9:26 this morning;

"A video circulating on social media shows a car doing a three-point turn after approaching a tank, only for it to open fire and destroy the vehicle.

"He’s gone, the whole family is gone," shouts one of those at the scene, as he speeds away and yells at other vehicles to turn around"

 

Note; it is now reported that the road is open again.

It’s on here - 

 

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/live/world-middle-east-67258466

[AlexLaw76]

12 minutes ago, sadoldgit said:

 

I appreciate that you dislike Muslims intensely, but perhaps don’t be so eager to try and play down the multiple killings every day?

You just cannot help yourself, can you

[egg]

10 minutes ago, Toadhall Saint said:

It’s on here - 

 

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/live/world-middle-east-67258466

Absolutely disgraceful. If it kept driving at the tank, then taking it out is fair game, but not when it's driving away. 

[egg]

1 hour ago, whelk said:

Dagestan: Mob storms Russian airport in search of Jews https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-67258332
 

Does this count as anti-semitism? I appreciate there is no such thing only those unhappy with Israel.

Edited below 👇

Edited 30 October, 2023 by egg

[egg]

Just now, egg said:

If it was because of their nationality rather then religion, is it anti semitic?

Regardless of that though, it was bloody awful and hopefully they'll get it in hand. Worrying signs for sure. 

Edit. Just read the article properly. The attack was clearly aimed at Jews, so was clearly anti semitic. 

Sad times. 

[hypochondriac]

Looks like that lady they showed the body of towards the start of this - Shabi Louk - was gang raped, tortured and beheaded. They also phoned her mother to say she was alive and withdrew money from her account after finding out her Pin number. Barbaric. 

[whelk]

1 hour ago, hypochondriac said:

Looks like that lady they showed the body of towards the start of this - Shabi Louk - was gang raped, tortured and beheaded. They also phoned her mother to say she was alive and withdrew money from her account after finding out her Pin number. Barbaric. 

Depraved Muslim cunts. Piss their pants at seeing a cartoon but their lovely god is really comfortable with gang rape. Know which side I am on. 

[hypochondriac]

3 minutes ago, whelk said:

Depraved Muslim cunts. Piss their pants at seeing a cartoon but their lovely god is really comfortable with gang rape. Know which side I am on. 

I know we've seen some depressing evidence to the contrary by a minority on here but you'd hope there'd be no rape apologists on here or some whataboutism attached to the condemnation of acts like this. "it didn't happen in a vacuum". 

Edited 30 October, 2023 by hypochondriac

[Weston Super Saint]

4 hours ago, badgerx16 said:

Yes, and they shelled the roads to the south, and also the refugee camps in the south. They know full well that not every non-combatant in the northern part of the Strip was able, let alone willing, to evacuate.

Were there any Hamas in the car?

[benjii]

1 hour ago, hypochondriac said:

Looks like that lady they showed the body of towards the start of this - Shabi Louk - was gang raped, tortured and beheaded. They also phoned her mother to say she was alive and withdrew money from her account after finding out her Pin number. Barbaric. 

Her family are saying she was shot in the head and died straight away. 

Obviously she was paraded around and the whole episode is disgusting either way.

[whelk]

[SotonianWill]

Although this Russia news is a different country, this is the benchmark of what happens when you allow a chance for antisemitic scumbags to go on their disguised “pro Palestine” marches. A good quarter of the people that have gone on these matches in the UK just hate jews and would vote for a Nazi esque extermination policy if given the chance. It’s simply the truth. Only innocent people like Owen Jones will try to excuse it without realising people like himself with good intentions are the shields much like Hamas uses their innocent as shields. Give gays such as himself a chance to meet who he’s supporting and they’ll give him an Aladdin ride off a tall building. 

[egg]

44 minutes ago, whelk said:

Depraved Muslim cunts. Piss their pants at seeing a cartoon but their lovely god is really comfortable with gang rape. Know which side I am on. 

Depraved Hamas cunts Whelk. No need to make it an anti Muslim thing. 

[hypochondriac]

20 minutes ago, SotonianWill said:

Although this Russia news is a different country, this is the benchmark of what happens when you allow a chance for antisemitic scumbags to go on their disguised “pro Palestine” marches. A good quarter of the people that have gone on these matches in the UK just hate jews and would vote for a Nazi esque extermination policy if given the chance. It’s simply the truth. Only innocent people like Owen Jones will try to excuse it without realising people like himself with good intentions are the shields much like Hamas uses their innocent as shields. Give gays such as himself a chance to meet who he’s supporting and they’ll give him an Aladdin ride off a tall building. 

Owen Jones isn't innocent. 

[badgerx16]

57 minutes ago, Weston Super Saint said:

Were there any Hamas in the car?

No idea, but the quote said "the whole family is gone ".

[whelk]

22 minutes ago, egg said:

Depraved Hamas cunts Whelk. No need to make it an anti Muslim thing. 

Obviously not representing all Muslims but their religion comes into it

 

[whelk]

32 minutes ago, SotonianWill said:

Although this Russia news is a different country, this is the benchmark of what happens when you allow a chance for antisemitic scumbags to go on their disguised “pro Palestine” marches. A good quarter of the people that have gone on these matches in the UK just hate jews and would vote for a Nazi esque extermination policy if given the chance. It’s simply the truth. Only innocent people like Owen Jones will try to excuse it without realising people like himself with good intentions are the shields much like Hamas uses their innocent as shields. Give gays such as himself a chance to meet who he’s supporting and they’ll give him an Aladdin ride off a tall building. 

I would question the ‘good intentions’ - he no doubts sees himself as the righteous crusader but it is basically favouring anything anti establishment. Will have no issues denouncing Christianity and their god but won’t go near doing the same for Islam. Confused and cowardly 

[hypochondriac]

5 minutes ago, whelk said:

I would question the ‘good intentions’ - he no doubts sees himself as the righteous crusader but it is basically favouring anything anti establishment. Will have no issues denouncing Christianity and their god but won’t go near doing the same for Islam. Confused and cowardly 

He also makes a mealy mouthed qualifying statement about the atrocities from Hamas at the beginning of a diatribe so he can then focus solely on any wrongs he perceives to have been committed by Israel and that's all he mentions for weeks on end. He knows he can't ignore Hamas entirely. He's an odious toad. As are many on the left who do the same thing. 

Edited 30 October, 2023 by hypochondriac

[Weston Super Saint]

1 hour ago, badgerx16 said:

No idea, but the quote said "the whole family is gone ".

Given the information available right now, it is impossible to know whether the occupants of the car were "innocent".

The "family" could be Father and two sons.

It still amazes me how members of this board can jump to conclusions - just like the hospital explosion.

Who knows, the car "could" have been highlighted by other soldiers on the ground as containing Hamas members, just as equally as it "could" contain an innocent family.

[Fan The Flames]

The wife, son, daughter and grandson of Al Jazeera’s chief correspondent in the Gaza Strip, Wael Dahdouh, were killed by an Israeli air strike on his home.

https://apnews.com/article/dahdouh-aljazeera-war-israel-palestinians-968a24495e1ce420dfe2f9257528c5c4

Edited 30 October, 2023 by Fan The Flames

[hypochondriac]

I see some MPs and celebs are making fools of themselves by using the phrase from the river to the sea and getting themselves in hot water. 

[badgerx16]

1 hour ago, hypochondriac said:

I see some MPs and celebs are making fools of themselves by using the phrase from the river to the sea and getting themselves in hot water. 

Stupid twats.

[rallyboy]

Thankfully I've seen no one one here supporting the attack by Hamas, they are terrorists and should be wiped off the fucking earth, there is no debate.

But murdering hundreds of innocent kids every day as revenge?

Because these rocket attacks on civilians, and let's not pretend otherwise, the numbers of civilian casualties break all international records of recent years, these attacks just create the next generation of hate and manage to make a horrendous situation even fucking worse.

Understandably, Israel wants revenge on Hamas and they want their people back, but look at the news footage, this isn't the revenge on Hamas that everyone wants, it's not helping to free hostages, it's just the slaughter of innocent civilians - only a total cunt would defend it.

If you think this role suits you, apply below.

 

 

[AlexLaw76]

7 hours ago, rallyboy said:

Thankfully I've seen no one one here supporting the attack by Hamas, they are terrorists and should be wiped off the fucking earth, there is no debate.

But murdering hundreds of innocent kids every day as revenge?

Because these rocket attacks on civilians, and let's not pretend otherwise, the numbers of civilian casualties break all international records of recent years, these attacks just create the next generation of hate and manage to make a horrendous situation even fucking worse.

Understandably, Israel wants revenge on Hamas and they want their people back, but look at the news footage, this isn't the revenge on Hamas that everyone wants, it's not helping to free hostages, it's just the slaughter of innocent civilians - only a total cunt would defend it.

If you think this role suits you, apply below.

 

 

It is an attack on Hamas, who have embedded themselves into Gaza'n society

[egg]

14 minutes ago, AlexLaw76 said:

It is an attack on Hamas, who have embedded themselves into Gaza'n society

Sure, they're after Hamas, and in a tightly packed Gaza, of course they'll be amongst the people. But you don't take out 100 civilians to get 1 or 2 Hamas blokes.

Rallyboy is correct in what he says. Israel, if you're incredibly generous and give them the benefit the doubt, are making minimal effort to spare civilians in attacking what they deem a legitimate target. They've been killing civilians, including shooting kids through the gaza fence and in the west bank for years, so I'm not giving them that benefit.

I'd like to hear their explanation as to why some targets have been hit, and why they've been hit knowing they're likely to contain civilians. 

[AlexLaw76]

Just now, egg said:

Sure, they're after Hamas, and in a tightly packed Gaza, of course they'll be amongst the people. But you don't take out 100 civilians to get 1 or 2 Hamas blokes.

Rallyboy is correct in what he says. Israel, if you're incredibly generous and give them the benefit the doubt, are making minimal effort to spare civilians in attacking what they deem a legitimate target. They've been killing civilians, including shooting kids through the gaza fence and in the west bank for years, so I'm not giving them that benefit.

I'd like to hear their explanation as to why some targets have been hit, and why they've been hit knowing they're likely to contain civilians. 

No idea. But war is not precise. There is a reason why we incinerate everything in sight when we go in.  

We / I have no idea where Hamas are? if their bunkers are in/around schools and such like, then that is what a country like Israel will do. We do it, they do it. Despite what we all tell ourselves, war and conflict is f-ing brutal.

[hypochondriac]

6 minutes ago, egg said:

Sure, they're after Hamas, and in a tightly packed Gaza, of course they'll be amongst the people. But you don't take out 100 civilians to get 1 or 2 Hamas blokes.

Rallyboy is correct in what he says. Israel, if you're incredibly generous and give them the benefit the doubt, are making minimal effort to spare civilians in attacking what they deem a legitimate target. They've been killing civilians, including shooting kids through the gaza fence and in the west bank for years, so I'm not giving them that benefit.

I'd like to hear their explanation as to why some targets have been hit, and why they've been hit knowing they're likely to contain civilians. 

Why do we hold Israel to such a standard, suggesting they aren't allowed to attack or go after Hamas lest civilians are harmed yet almost nothing is said about Hamas deliberate  basing themselves in the civilian populations and using human shields? If the aim is to de-escalate the situation, why don't Hamas just give back every hostage they have today?

[egg]

9 minutes ago, AlexLaw76 said:

No idea. But war is not precise. There is a reason why we incinerate everything in sight when we go in.  

We / I have no idea where Hamas are? if their bunkers are in/around schools and such like, then that is what a country like Israel will do. We do it, they do it. Despite what we all tell ourselves, war and conflict is f-ing brutal.

I get that, but there has to be red lines. Take the al-shifa hospital. Packed with patients and civilians using it as as shelter. Israeli says it's a place for "terrorists to hide". Let's assume that to be correct, and even a place where rooms are used for Hamas to meet. Israel have warned people to evacuate, and they haven't. Are Israel now ok to blow it up? 

 

[AlexLaw76]

18 minutes ago, egg said:

I get that, but there has to be red lines. Take the al-shifa hospital. Packed with patients and civilians using it as as shelter. Israeli says it's a place for "terrorists to hide". Let's assume that to be correct, and even a place where rooms are used for Hamas to meet. Israel have warned people to evacuate, and they haven't. Are Israel now ok to blow it up? 

 

That is war mate and conflict mate. At least Israel haven't set the entire strip alight, as trust me, the high standards we have, it would have been done in about 48 hours if the US and UK delivered some democracy to the area.

The only option for Israel, is no war. They are going in and going in hard. Sadly, many people not involved will be wiped out. Israel answer to no one, bar the USA (who are proving the umbrella for this to take place). 

On a separate note, watching our politicians use international situations as a political hot potato is quite funny, Starmer is about to make a public statement calling for a "something" (not a ceasefire). Like Israel give a toss what the leader of the opposition in the UK think s(or even know who he is).

 

Edited 31 October, 2023 by AlexLaw76

[egg]

5 minutes ago, AlexLaw76 said:

That is war mate and conflict mate. At least Israel haven't set the entire strip alight, as trust me, the high standards we have, it would have been done in about 48 hours if the US and UK delivered some democracy to the area.

The only option for Israel, is no war. They are going in and going in hard. Sadly, many people not involved will be wiped out. Israel answer to no one, bar the USA (who are proving the umbrella for this to take place). 

On a separate note, watching our politicians use international situations as a political hot potato is quite funny, Starmer is about to make a public statement calling for a "something" (not a ceasefire). Like Israel give a toss what the leader of the opposition in the UK think s(or even know who he is).

 

So all cool if Israel take out al-shifa? 

On to our domestic politics, Bravermans 'hate marches' comment was pathetic and unhelpful. As for Starmer, he lied through his teeth when back tracking over his support for the siege. I've got no idea what he'll come out with next, and I'm not sure he does either! 

[AlexLaw76]

2 minutes ago, egg said:

So all cool if Israel take out al-shifa? 

On to our domestic politics, Bravermans 'hate marches' comment was pathetic and unhelpful. As for Starmer, he lied through his teeth when back tracking over his support for the siege. I've got no idea what he'll come out with next, and I'm not sure he does either! 

Not really, But the reality is, conflict is fucking brutal anda miles away what we all hoped it would be.

My personal view is that this war will take relation backward by a matter of decades. But the reality is, it is brutal, Israel do not give a toss what anyone thinks (other than the USA), and we are no better when we throw our hat into the conflict-mix...which is probably why other nations ignore what we say when we call for restraint etc. 

[aintforever]

7 minutes ago, egg said:

So all cool if Israel take out al-shifa? 

On to our domestic politics, Bravermans 'hate marches' comment was pathetic and unhelpful. As for Starmer, he lied through his teeth when back tracking over his support for the siege. I've got no idea what he'll come out with next, and I'm not sure he does either! 

The problem for Starmer is the moment he says he wants a cease-fire (which I'm sure he does), the Tories, the gutter press and the Israeli lobby all scream anti-semitism.

[whelk]

43 minutes ago, hypochondriac said:

Why do we hold Israel to such a standard, suggesting they aren't allowed to attack or go after Hamas lest civilians are harmed yet almost nothing is said about Hamas deliberate  basing themselves in the civilian populations and using human shields? If the aim is to de-escalate the situation, why don't Hamas just give back every hostage they have today?

Imagine organising a march protesting at what Hamas have inflicted on their innocent civilians? Maybe cunts with hand gliding badges wouldn’t attend.

[whelk]

16 minutes ago, egg said:

So all cool if Israel take out al-shifa? 

On to our domestic politics, Bravermans 'hate marches' comment was pathetic and unhelpful. As for Starmer, he lied through his teeth when back tracking over his support for the siege. I've got no idea what he'll come out with next, and I'm not sure he does either! 

The Tories know that taking a line will piss off some but hold firm. Labour want to navigate so no one offended which is impossible in such a situation and will make them look weak. More Palestine sympathising Councillors that resign is probably better for Starmer.

[hypochondriac]

25 minutes ago, egg said:

So all cool if Israel take out al-shifa? 

On to our domestic politics, Bravermans 'hate marches' comment was pathetic and unhelpful. As for Starmer, he lied through his teeth when back tracking over his support for the siege. I've got no idea what he'll come out with next, and I'm not sure he does either! 

It wasn't pathetic in the slightest. Many many of the people on the marches are hateful that's a fact. It was disgusting to hear some of the chants and see the slogans. Imagine being Jewish and living in London right now. I went to a bar mitzvah in London a few years ago and they put bodyguards on the doors to prevent attacks. I can't imagine what it's like there at the moment. 

[sadoldgit]

5 minutes ago, aintforever said:

The problem for Starmer is the moment he says he wants a cease-fire (which I'm sure he does), the Tories, the gutter press and the Israeli lobby all scream anti-semitism.

Exactly.

But as said, the Israelis don’t care what he, Sunak, the EU or anybody says, they will do exactly what they want to do as they have done for years with impunity.

They have the backing of the most powerful nation on earth and they ride roughshod over international rules and conventions. The international community has allowed this situation to fester and has allowed it to get out of hand, but that is the basic problem, too many people are scared of calling Israeli actions out when they go too far. Time and again over the last few weeks people who have called out the Hamas attack as abhorrent have also been accused of siding against Israel because they have condemned the mass killing of Palestinian civilians.

It has been stated several times, but all Israel are doing at the moment is stoking up the conflict for future generations and guaranteeing more events like 7/10 down the line. We don’t tolerate murderous attacks by extremist groups, nor should we. But state terrorism is no different.

 

 

[hypochondriac]

12 minutes ago, whelk said:

Imagine organising a march protesting at what Hamas have inflicted on their innocent civilians? Maybe cunts with hand gliding badges wouldn’t attend.

Maybe the Muslims based in the UK who went on the anti Israel March would elict more sympathy if they did an equivalent March which was pro Palestinian and anti Hamas. We all know why they won't though.