Israel

[badgerx16]

18 minutes ago, Weston Super Saint said:

You think Israel should send troops into the UAE to hunt down the Hamas leadership?

Mossad and Shin Bet have a history of extra- territorial action.

[Fan The Flames]

2 hours ago, whelk said:

Our own counter to Elon Musks free to express anything.  Far too sensitive and all I said was that Fan the Flames need to toughen up.

He keeps banging on quoting ‘racist cunts’ like someone obsessed and getting a tad unhinged 

I was calling you out on your behaviour, you are the one calling people cunts, pricks and calling someone an antisemite based on a couple of posts. I get it you don't like being told you're wrong, nobody does.

[badgerx16]

45 minutes ago, whelk said:

And there we go, justification that I am sure you will deny.

How many UN resolutions and international agreements is Israel in breach of ?. There are more current UN resolutions against Israel then all other countries combined. I am in no way justifying Hamas, but you seem completely oblivious to all the privations and apartheid actions that are imposed on the displaced Palestinian people. Israel can stop most of the problems by withdrawing from the occupied territories, granting the Palestinians the rights and freedoms they are entitled to, and working on a way forward through dialogue that denies Hamas and other extremists their production line of new recruits.

Edited 16 October, 2023 by badgerx16

[rallyboy]

1 hour ago, whelk said:

I know Rallyboy would just say no comment to any line of questioning for fear of upsetting Arabs. All in name of smug pacifism 

Why are you making up shit?

And I think you'll find that peace is normally considered a positive outcome so you might want to rethink the way you slag off strangers, because like a lot of your typing and grammar, that insult didn't really make sense.

Anyway, good luck with everything. 🙂👍

[Weston Super Saint]

29 minutes ago, badgerx16 said:

How many UN resolutions and international agreements is Israel in breach of ?. There are more current UN resolutions against Israel then all other countries combined. I am in no way justifying Hamas, but you seem completely oblivious to all the privations and apartheid actions that are imposed on the displaced Palestinian people. Israel can stop most of the problems by withdrawing from the occupied territories, granting the Palestinians the rights and freedoms they are entitled to, and working on a way forward through dialogue that denies Hamas and other extremists their production line of new recruits.

I wonder how many the UN would have against Hamas - if they recognised them  

[sadoldgit]

Better and more balanced speeches from both the PM and Starmer (especially Starmer) this afternoon in the House. Good to hear recognition that Hamas and not the Palestinians should be the focus of any blame, more emphasis about the humanitarian position for the innocent Palestinians in Gaza and that there is no place for hatred towards Jews or Muslims on our streets

[benjii]

3 hours ago, badgerx16 said:

They are capable of far more "surgical" action than effectively bulldozing half of the Gaza Strip. Also, as previously mentioned, perhaps try for the leadership of Hamas,  comfortably tucked away in the UAE. Maybe they shouldn't be so oppressive in the territories they illegally occupy, thereby reducing the tension and temptation to retaliate.

Do you think what they are currently doing is going to make the problem go away ?

At some point somebody has to put on their Big Boy Pants and try to find a way to implement an effective 2 state solution that breaks the cycle, because all they are currently doing is breeding the next generation of terrorists.

I think they are in Qatar, not UAE.

[Lord Duckhunter]

2 hours ago, badgerx16 said:

 Israel can stop most of the problems by withdrawing from the occupied territories, 

They left Gaza in Sept 2005. 

[badgerx16]

7 minutes ago, Lord Duckhunter said:

They left Gaza in Sept 2005. 

Gaza is not all of the land that Israel occupies, most of it is the West Bank. Palestinian Territory is the combination of the 2. Also, Israel has almost total control over over water, fuel, and electricity supplies to Gaza, and of all but 1 of the routes in.

( Then again, you know this perfectly well ).

Edited 16 October, 2023 by badgerx16

[badgerx16]

1 hour ago, benjii said:

I think they are in Qatar, not UAE.

I am sure Mossad know exactly where they are.

[egg]

9 minutes ago, badgerx16 said:

I am sure Mossad know exactly where they are.

They will indeed. Regardless, wherever they are, Hamas can't be wiped off the map. Kill a leader, another steps up. Even then, you can't kill an ideology, and that ain't going anywhere as long as Israel occupy Palestinian land. The point that many are missing (not least Israel) is that this collective punishment will only breed the hatred/ideology/instability. 

[whelk]

3 hours ago, rallyboy said:

Why are you making up shit?

And I think you'll find that peace is normally considered a positive outcome so you might want to rethink the way you slag off strangers, because like a lot of your typing and grammar, that insult didn't really make sense.

Anyway, good luck with everything. 🙂👍

You said you wanted us to stay well clear. That isn’t wanting peace - an obvious goal of probably everyone on this thread, but is a look away approach that is the play of a coward.

Keep up the passive aggression though, you are so good at it.

[whelk]

3 hours ago, badgerx16 said:

How many UN resolutions and international agreements is Israel in breach of ?. There are more current UN resolutions against Israel then all other countries combined. I am in no way justifying Hamas, but you seem completely oblivious to all the privations and apartheid actions that are imposed on the displaced Palestinian people. Israel can stop most of the problems by withdrawing from the occupied territories, granting the Palestinians the rights and freedoms they are entitled to, and working on a way forward through dialogue that denies Hamas and other extremists their production line of new recruits.

UN is largely a waste of space. Btw I do not believe, and have never said the Palestinian grievances aren’t valid. Netanyahu has clearly enabled Hamas.

But after say the Harrods bombing I wouldn’t be going on a march in London to Unite Ireland a week later, shout abuse about those murdered, and saying British army are as much to blame as the bombers.  And then at the same time I am no fan of the IRA, this is about uniting Ireland which is completely different.

[whelk]

3 hours ago, Fan The Flames said:

I was calling you out on your behaviour, you are the one calling people cunts, pricks and calling someone an antisemite based on a couple of posts. I get it you don't like being told you're wrong, nobody does.

I don’t feel wrong at all. Outnumbered on here maybe and little depressing on the equivalence justification.

Bet if someone did a ‘cunt’ count on this thread you’d beat me. I get a free pass on the last one btw

[whelk]

36 minutes ago, egg said:

They will indeed. Regardless, wherever they are, Hamas can't be wiped off the map. Kill a leader, another steps up. Even then, you can't kill an ideology, and that ain't going anywhere as long as Israel occupy Palestinian land. The point that many are missing (not least Israel) is that this collective punishment will only breed the hatred/ideology/instability. 

Maybe not but you can stop them hand-gliding into kibbutz’s and butchering children, filming it and celebrating. 

[egg]

3 minutes ago, whelk said:

Maybe not but you can stop them hand-gliding into kibbutz’s and butchering children, filming it and celebrating. 

Yeah, hideous behaviour. They can take out some of the individuals. All that'll achieve is a short term win, but result in a longer term and bigger fight. Is the juice worth the squeeze? 

[Lord Duckhunter]

1 hour ago, badgerx16 said:

Gaza is not all of the land that Israel occupies, most of it is the West Bank. Palestinian Territory is the combination of the 2. Also, Israel has almost total control over over water, fuel, and electricity supplies to Gaza, and of all but 1 of the routes in.

 You wrote that most of the problems would sorted if Isreal withdraw from the occupied areas. The fact they withdrew from Gaza 18 years ago shows that this is complete rubbish. Withdrawing from all occupied territories won’t stop people trying to murder Jews & wipe Isreal off the face of the earth. Millions have been poured into Gaza, and they spent those millions on hardware to murder Jews. They had the money to improve the infrastructure, they could have turned towards Egypt & lived in peace like the Egyptians do. They choose another route and that’s why we’re where we are. If the Israelis withdrew from West Bank, exactly the same thing would happen there eventually. 
 

[badgerx16]

42 minutes ago, Lord Duckhunter said:

 You wrote that most of the problems would sorted if Isreal withdraw from the occupied areas. The fact they withdrew from Gaza 18 years ago shows that this is complete rubbish. Withdrawing from all occupied territories won’t stop people trying to murder Jews & wipe Isreal off the face of the earth. Millions have been poured into Gaza, and they spent those millions on hardware to murder Jews. They had the money to improve the infrastructure, they could have turned towards Egypt & lived in peace like the Egyptians do. They choose another route and that’s why we’re where we are. If the Israelis withdrew from West Bank, exactly the same thing would happen there eventually. 
 

Perhaps over 2 million displaced people aren't happy with being crammed into the Strip, having been turfed off their ancestral lands and having all of their basic humanitarian needs controlled by what they perceive to be an apartheid style oppressive military machine.

There are differing views and interpretations of what might be done, but one thing is for certain; whatever has been done over the last 20 years, and continues to happen, hasn't solved anything, and if things stay as they are it will still not solve the problems.

[egg]

The overnight events were utterly predictable - "move to south Gaza where you'll be safe", only to then get bombed in the south.  

"Ministry of Health officials have told us that at least 71 people were killed overnight in Israeli bombardments.

The heaviest bombardments occurred in three areas in the south of Gaza: Khan Younis, Rafah and Deir el-Balah.

Many of those killed are families who evacuated from Gaza City and the northern part of the Strip as ordered by Israel.

Ambulances are transporting the injured to already overcrowded hospitals, and we are told that many people are still trapped in the rubble of the targeted buildings, awaiting rescue".

Can any of the Israeli supporters explain how this gets anywhere near Israel defending itself? 

[badgerx16]

41 minutes ago, egg said:

The overnight events were utterly predictable - "move to south Gaza where you'll be safe", only to then get bombed in the south.  

"Ministry of Health officials have told us that at least 71 people were killed overnight in Israeli bombardments.

The heaviest bombardments occurred in three areas in the south of Gaza: Khan Younis, Rafah and Deir el-Balah.

Many of those killed are families who evacuated from Gaza City and the northern part of the Strip as ordered by Israel.

Ambulances are transporting the injured to already overcrowded hospitals, and we are told that many people are still trapped in the rubble of the targeted buildings, awaiting rescue".

Can any of the Israeli supporters explain how this gets anywhere near Israel defending itself? 

Ah, but yesterday the Israeli ambassador to the UK told Sky News that there is no humanitarian crisis in Gaza.

A UN official told the BBC that hospitals are rationing patients to one glass of water a day.

Edited 17 October, 2023 by badgerx16

[whelk]

Let’s hope Iran and Hezbollah attack Israel soon and we can be rid of these nasty Israelis and the Arabs can live in peace.

Hopefully the evil US will turn their aircraft carriers around so it won’t be unfair fight. Fucking Middle East democracies spoiling it for the dictators

[AlexLaw76]

17 minutes ago, whelk said:

Let’s hope Iran and Hezbollah attack Israel soon and we can be rid of these nasty Israelis and the Arabs can live in peace.

Hopefully the evil US will turn their aircraft carriers around so it won’t be unfair fight. Fucking Middle East democracies spoiling it for the dictators

Why the US needs 1, let alone 2 Carrier battle groups there, is a mystery.

 

well, it isn’t a mystery at all, but you get my meaning. Gaza will be flattened until such time the US says stop. 

[sadoldgit]

2 hours ago, whelk said:

Let’s hope Iran and Hezbollah attack Israel soon and we can be rid of these nasty Israelis and the Arabs can live in peace.

Hopefully the evil US will turn their aircraft carriers around so it won’t be unfair fight. Fucking Middle East democracies spoiling it for the dictators

Let’s hope that the situation is de-escalated quickly and a cease fire arranged so that we don’t have to put up with any more moronic, myopic, reactionary posts like this.

[Turkish]

34 minutes ago, sadoldgit said:

Let’s hope that the situation is de-escalated quickly and a cease fire arranged so that we don’t have to put up with any more moronic, myopic, reactionary posts like this.

he's got a point, just because you dont like it. Wonder if it was just coincidence that the Brussells shoot was carried out this week when the guy has been living there since 2019? Start of new global run of terror attacks in protest at the Israeli bombing of Gaza? Likely i'll say.

[Weston Super Saint]

59 minutes ago, sadoldgit said:

Let’s hope that the situation is de-escalated quickly and a cease fire arranged so that we don’t have to put up with any more moronic, myopic, reactionary posts like this.

Not a hope in hell.

As Alex has said, Gaza will be flattened until the US says to stop.

[Sheaf Saint]

21 minutes ago, Turkish said:

he's got a point, just because you dont like it. Wonder if it was just coincidence that the Brussells shoot was carried out this week when the guy has been living there since 2019? Start of new global run of terror attacks in protest at the Israeli bombing of Gaza? Likely i'll say.

He hasn't got a point. It's an idiotic, childish post, sarcastically ridiculing an opinion that literally nobody on this thread actually holds.

As for the Brussels incident, the guy filmed himself after the attack claiming to be from IS but made no mention whatsoever of Israel, which you would think he probably would have done if his actions were in response to the current situation. Just as likely he's just a lone wolf, loose on the streets of Belgium illegally who has been planning something like this for some time. I guess we'll never know though.

[aintforever]

[trousers]

Sorry, new to the thread.... Has anyone blamed the Romans yet? Personally, I'd give the land back to the Natufians or Canaanites. 

[badgerx16]

2 minutes ago, trousers said:

Sorry, new to the thread.... Has anyone blamed the Romans yet?

What did they ever do for us ?

[badgerx16]

At least 100 reported killed after Israel bomb a hospital, at least 6 more in a school sheltering people who had moved south to the "safe" zone, and Egypt saying the border crossing is not closed - it is simply too dangerous to try to get through due to Israeli air strikes.

 

Definitely looking to maintain a safe passage out and minimise collateral casualties.

Edited 17 October, 2023 by badgerx16

[sadoldgit]

Hospital death toll now said to be 500. At what point does the death toll become “proportionate”?

[AlexLaw76]

1 hour ago, badgerx16 said:

At least 100 reported killed after Israel bomb a hospital, at least 6 more in a school sheltering people who had moved south to the "safe" zone, and Egypt saying the border crossing is not closed - it is simply too dangerous to try to get through due to Israeli air strikes.

 

Definitely looking to maintain a safe passage out and minimise collateral casualties.

yeah, but stop being a sheep ffs

[Sheaf Saint]

26 minutes ago, sadoldgit said:

Hospital death toll now said to be 500. At what point does the death toll become “proportionate”?

Will be interesting to hear what sort of response we get from Westminster about this. How far do Israel have to go before the government (and opposition) start calling them out?

[egg]

6 minutes ago, Sheaf Saint said:

Will be interesting to hear what sort of response we get from Westminster about this. How far do Israel have to go before the government (and opposition) start calling them out?

There'll be nothing from either. Neither will deviate from the american line, and neither will want the anti semitic allegation. Very sad when civilised nations can't/won't speak out against the behaviour that we're seeing. Alas, I still think we ain't seen anything yet, and I don't think the americans are even close to calling a stop to it. 

[AlexLaw76]

13 minutes ago, egg said:

There'll be nothing from either. Neither will deviate from the american line, and neither will want the anti semitic allegation. Very sad when civilised nations can't/won't speak out against the behaviour that we're seeing. Alas, I still think we ain't seen anything yet, and I don't think the americans are even close to calling a stop to it. 

Surprised we have not had lunatics like Tobias Ellwood demanding the UK send in ground forces to help out Israel

[badgerx16]

2 hours ago, AlexLaw76 said:

yeah, but stop being a sheep ffs

Get away from your Twitter feed and develop opinions of your own.

[AlexLaw76]

Lots of chat this morning (from US talking heads) that this is all really about Iran getting closer to having a Nuclear Bomb. 

[benjii]

- We're not aware of any deaths. We'll investigate. 

- Some people were killed, but by Palestinians. Rocket went off by mistake.

- OK, we did kill them but they were terrorists.

- Yes, OK, some of them were civilians but they were being used as human shields by the terrorists.

- OK, there were no terrorists in the area. We made a mistake. But we only kill civilians by accident and they do it on purpose.

- Yes, OK, we have killed way more civilians than they have but look at other countries - they do bad stuff too!

- Why are you so interested in Israel anyway? Are you some sort of anti-semite?

 

 

Edit: this post wasn't about the hospital blast. Looks to me like that was not an Israeli air strike.

Edited 18 October, 2023 by benjii

[Lord Duckhunter]

12 hours ago, sadoldgit said:

Hospital death toll now said to be 500. At what point does the death toll become “proportionate”?

The BBC said this morning it was “working hard” to verify what happened and who was to blame. They can’t be working that hard, as all they need to do is place a call to Romney Marsh, and they’d be fully updated. 

[sadoldgit]

48 minutes ago, Lord Duckhunter said:

The BBC said this morning it was “working hard” to verify what happened and who was to blame. They can’t be working that hard, as all they need to do is place a call to Romney Marsh, and they’d be fully updated. 

Is that all you have to say about it? Pretty much shows what kind of person you are (and those who think your post is funny).

If that was Hamas blowing up an Israeli hospital would you be making pathetic jokes about it?

[Weston Super Saint]

2 minutes ago, sadoldgit said:

Is that all you have to say about it? Pretty much shows what kind of person you are (and those who think your post is funny).

If that was Hamas blowing up an Israeli hospital would you be making pathetic jokes about it?

It may turn out that it was....

On the other hand it may not.

Dirty business is war.

Although not surprised you missed it as you tend to miss most things, but the joke was about you rather than the war.

[aintforever]

13 hours ago, sadoldgit said:

Hospital death toll now said to be 500. At what point does the death toll become “proportionate”?

Israel claiming it was a miss-fired rocket from Islamic Jihad.

Hmmm I'm not sure. Do Islamic Jihad even have rockets with that sort of capability? The rockets they shoot off look like the ones that can be launched from the back of a 4x4, I've seen videos of them landing and they don't look like the type that could do that sort of damage. When was the last time one landed in Israel and killed anywhere near 500?

[whelk]

8 minutes ago, aintforever said:

Israel claiming it was a miss-fired rocket from Islamic Jihad.

Hmmm I'm not sure. Do Islamic Jihad even have rockets with that sort of capability? The rockets they shoot off look like the ones that can be launched from the back of a 4x4, I've seen videos of them landing and they don't look like the type that could do that sort of damage. When was the last time one landed in Israel and killed anywhere near 500?

Hard to know of course as so much misinformation on both sides

https://news.sky.com/story/israel-hamas-war-israel-says-it-will-release-evidence-which-it-claims-shows-an-islamic-jihad-rocket-hit-the-gaza-hospital-12986662

[whelk]

I am trying to stay away from Twitter as so much shit and misinformation on there and appears moderation is not really there since Musk took over.

Rely on Newsagents and Rest is Politics podcasts to try and get a balance despite some appearing to see me as a rabid Zionist

All so bleak and depressing though 

 

[Sheaf Saint]

Interesting hearing the IDF spokesman saying that other countries are "looking carefully at what the BBC says" when asked why people should believe their claim about the misfired rocket causing the hospital blast.

I can't find a link, but I remember many years ago reading a very frank interview with someone who worked in the BBC newsroom for many years. He recalled how every single time they printed a story about the Israel-Palestine conflict they would immediately get a call from irate Israeli government officials complaining that the language used was misleading and demanding that they alter it to portray them more favourably. They would then inevitably get a call from the director's office with strict instructions on the exact changes to the text that they required.

He showed a couple of examples, where a very balanced article had been heavily edited to show the Palestinians as being the perpetrators and Israel as the innocent victims. It was pretty shocking, and highlighted how much power the Israeli foreign office has over Western media.

To counter this though, I will also add that Hamas have also been caught out faking videos of people being injured in Israeli attacks in the past (Google 'Pallywood' to see for yourself), so both sides are guilty of manipulating the media for their own benefit.

[Gloucester Saint]

Interesting piece in the Telegraph today from the Five Eyes conference about the potential enhanced domestic risk from Iran taking advantage of the Israel-Palestinian situation.

Been building for a while before now but mainly focused to date on the Shia hardline cleric regime bumping off dissidents and Farsi-speaking media. The Iranian regime needs to be very careful - there’s a population in the main who have never liked them and the West can see attempts to stop international inspections on their nuclear weapons programme. Contingent on whether the majority of the Iranian public want rid of the Islamic Republic badly enough. There have been a lot of public protests about the detention death of Magda Amini 12 months ago, including big protests last month, but is that enough to back a Western-armed opposition? 

https://www.msn.com/en-gb/news/world/mi5-chief-warns-of-iran-backed-terror-attacks-in-the-uk/ar-AA1inuWS?ocid=NL_ENGB_A1_00010101_1_1

Edited 18 October, 2023 by Gloucester Saint

[benjii]

Biden's visit is a little worrying. Geriatric mumblings about Hamas making ISIS look more reasonable are idiotic and  inflammatory.

Let's hope he doesn't say or do anything too stupid whilst he's there.

Fuck me, look at the people the US and UK have had in charge recently Trump, Biden, Johnson, Truss, Sunak.... it's utterly mental.

[Sheaf Saint]

24 minutes ago, benjii said:

Biden's visit is a little worrying. Geriatric mumblings about Hamas making ISIS look more reasonable are idiotic and  inflammatory.

Let's hope he doesn't say or do anything too stupid whilst he's there.

Fuck me, look at the people the US and UK have had in charge recently Trump, Biden, Johnson, Truss, Sunak.... it's utterly mental.

"Israel must have the right to defend itself". 

While I dont disagree with that statement, it doesn't really describe the situation does it.

if someone tries to attack me in the street, blocking his punches and putting him on his arse is self-defence, burning down his house and murdering his family is not.

[whelk]

33 minutes ago, benjii said:

Biden's visit is a little worrying. Geriatric mumblings about Hamas making ISIS look more reasonable are idiotic and  inflammatory.

Let's hope he doesn't say or do anything too stupid whilst he's there.

Fuck me, look at the people the US and UK have had in charge recently Trump, Biden, Johnson, Truss, Sunak.... it's utterly mental.

I think Biden has been pretty impressive so far. His speech is generally wobbly though but have faith that he understands the complexity. Imagine Trump dealing with this and Ukraine is quite a worry.

 

Edited 18 October, 2023 by whelk
Haven’t heard what Biden said today

[hypochondriac]

4 minutes ago, Sheaf Saint said:

"Israel must have the right to defend itself". 

While I dont disagree with that statement, it doesn't really describe the situation does it.

if someone tries to attack me in the street, blocking his punches and putting him on his arse is self-defence, burning down his house and murdering his family is not.

The point is that the aim for Israel is to prevent Hamas from doing it again. Doing something small and relatively inconsequential is just going to lead to Hamas doing the same thing again in a few years. I totally understand why Israel are getting to a point where they want to prevent this from happening again.