Israel

[badgerx16]

1 hour ago, sadoldgit said:

Of course not. You don’t find it odd that some people constantly feel the need to post laughing emojis on posts about dead women and children? Wouldn’t you imagine that whatever drives their behaviour, the novelty would have worn off by now? The Lounge was always a bit weird but it seems to be getting weirder by the week.

Maybe you should stop including such comments as "Perhaps those who think it is appropriate to post laughing emojis on these posts....." and presenting them with such a clear opening. Just ignore them and minimize the childish glee they derive from provoking you.

Nutty Nic regularly puts laughs on my posts, I just take it as proof that he is, mentally at least, 5 years old.

Edited March 24 by badgerx16

[tdmickey3]

33 minutes ago, badgerx16 said:

Maybe you should stop including such comments as "Perhaps those who think it is appropriate to post laughing emojis on these posts....." and presenting them with such a clear opening. Just ignore them and minimize the childish glee they derive from provoking you.

Nutty Nic regularly puts laughs on my posts, I just take it as proof that he is, mentally at least, 5 years old.

You give him to much credit

[east-stand-nic]

16 hours ago, badgerx16 said:

Maybe you should stop including such comments as "Perhaps those who think it is appropriate to post laughing emojis on these posts....." and presenting them with such a clear opening. Just ignore them and minimize the childish glee they derive from provoking you.

Nutty Nic regularly puts laughs on my posts, I just take it as proof that he is, mentally at least, 5 years old.

 

15 hours ago, tdmickey3 said:

You give him to much credit

Obsessed.

[sadoldgit]

https://apnews.com/article/no-other-land-oscar-israel-palestinians-084c63f33e748a3279646759e9b705c2#

[whelk]

Nice to see some anti Hamas protests. Let’s hope they can get some momentum and get them out of power

Edited Wednesday at 19:34 by whelk

[Gloucester Saint]

5 minutes ago, whelk said:

Nice to see some anti Hamas protests. Let’s hope they can get some momentum and get them out of power

Typically they were trying to disperse peaceful protests by force.

[hypochondriac]

12 hours ago, whelk said:

Nice to see some anti Hamas protests. Let’s hope they can get some momentum and get them out of power

I saw that. Good to see that at least some of the Palestinians realise what the problem is here. 

[rallyboy]

Hopefully a few more people will grasp the fact that innocent Palestinians and Hamas terrorists are different targets.

[sadoldgit]

1 hour ago, rallyboy said:

Hopefully a few more people will grasp the fact that innocent Palestinians and Hamas terrorists are different targets.

Don’t hold your breath.

[whelk]

19 minutes ago, sadoldgit said:

Don’t hold your breath.

Off course no-one can match SOG’s righteousness for peace loving, Muslim loving, Jew hating

[hypochondriac]

2 hours ago, rallyboy said:

Hopefully a few more people will grasp the fact that innocent Palestinians and Hamas terrorists are different targets.

Hopefully a few more people will grasp the fact that there's a level of crossover here. 

[rallyboy]

2 hours ago, hypochondriac said:

Hopefully a few more people will grasp the fact that there's a level of crossover here. 

Do you agree that innocent civilians who have no involvement or support for terrorism are different to Hamas terrorists, or are you saying the level of crossover is about 50,000 and counting?

 

 

[hypochondriac]

1 hour ago, rallyboy said:

Do you agree that innocent civilians who have no involvement or support for terrorism are different to Hamas terrorists, or are you saying the level of crossover is about 50,000 and counting?

 

 

I'm saying that very unfortunately virtually every war in history has collateral damage and that tragically innocents are killed. Is the ratio of innocent civilians to Hamas terrorists greatly higher than comparable urban wars on average? Or greatly lower? 

Edited Thursday at 16:41 by hypochondriac

[sadoldgit]

7 minutes ago, hypochondriac said:

I'm saying that very unfortunately virtually every war in history has collateral damage and that tragically innocents are killed. Is the ratio of innocent civilians to Hamas terrorists greatly higher than comparable urban wars on average? Or greatly lower? 

Would you be okay if Hamas had killed Israeli civilians to the tune of 50k if the situation was reversed? 

[hypochondriac]

2 minutes ago, sadoldgit said:

Would you be okay if Hamas had killed Israeli civilians to the tune of 50k if the situation was reversed? 

In your fantasy scenario are Israel led by an elected terrorist organisation who killed and kidnapped hostages which they continue to hold without releasing them? Are you okay with the amount of civilians killed by the allies during World War 2?

[sadoldgit]

39 minutes ago, hypochondriac said:

In your fantasy scenario are Israel led by an elected terrorist organisation who killed and kidnapped hostages which they continue to hold without releasing them? Are you okay with the amount of civilians killed by the allies during World War 2?

I don’t know how you can conflate WW2 with what is happening in Gaza unless you agree that there was genocide also in WW2.

As for the hostages, how anyone can say that it is ok to kill 50,000 civilians in response to some hostages being taken is beyond belief. And you call me a vile person. You know damned well that if Hamas we’re killing this amount of civilians you would be posting about it every day and, heaven forbid, if anyone posted laughing emojis in response you would have a melt down.

If Hamas we’re displacing Israelis in the West Bank from their homes we wouldn’t hear the end of it from you.

It doesn’t really bother you that the elected government in Israel are acting just as badly as Hamas. Dead Muslims aren’t  an issue for you so it is easy to turn a blind eye to Netanyahu and his government’s actions.

[hypochondriac]

23 minutes ago, sadoldgit said:

I don’t know how you can conflate WW2 with what is happening in Gaza unless you agree that there was genocide also in WW2.

As for the hostages, how anyone can say that it is ok to kill 50,000 civilians in response to some hostages being taken is beyond belief. And you call me a vile person. You know damned well that if Hamas we’re killing this amount of civilians you would be posting about it every day and, heaven forbid, if anyone posted laughing emojis in response you would have a melt down.

If Hamas we’re displacing Israelis in the West Bank from their homes we wouldn’t hear the end of it from you.

It doesn’t really bother you that the elected government in Israel are acting just as badly as Hamas. Dead Muslims aren’t  an issue for you so it is easy to turn a blind eye to Netanyahu and his government’s actions.

Just an obvious troll. 

[whelk]

1 hour ago, hypochondriac said:

Just an obvious troll. 

He would be the bottom of every  debating society in the world. Brain isn’t wired to comprehend

[whelk]

1 hour ago, sadoldgit said:

civilians in response to some hostages being taken is beyond belief

You are such a thick cunt 

[hypochondriac]

6 minutes ago, whelk said:

You are such a thick cunt 

He does it on purpose lynne. 

[whelk]

Just now, hypochondriac said:

He does it on purpose lynne. 

I had lunch with an old friend today and he was telling me about his thesis he is writing about self-righteous left wing pensioners in Kent. He said most of them are over compensating for their past. SOG’s obsession with Muslims and bringing it up at every turn is clearly him trying to put right something in the past

[Holmes_and_Watson]

"...in response to some hostages being taken...."

@sadoldgit it would appear that in your rush to make a point/ insult another poster, you've let a mask slip with that comment.

It would fall into being a vile thing to say. Perhaps those who you say are calling you that have a point?

[sadoldgit]

14 hours ago, Holmes_and_Watson said:

"...in response to some hostages being taken...."

@sadoldgit it would appear that in your rush to make a point/ insult another poster, you've let a mask slip with that comment.

It would fall into being a vile thing to say. Perhaps those who you say are calling you that have a point?

You don’t see a difference between taking people hostage and killing tens of thousands of other people?

Given a choice I’m thinking that being taken hostage is preferable to being blow apart or buried under a building. 

The poster I replied to was intimating that the activities of 7th October were enough to justify laying Gaza to waste and killing tens of thousands of  women and children. No mask here. Personally I don’t think that the response is, in any universe, justifiable or proportionate.

He also tried to conflate WW2 with what is happening in Gaza at the moment as if Hamas is in any way comparable to any of the main forces in that war. The combatants in WW2 fought with similar munitions and equipment. I am sure you can see the difference between what the IDF have at their disposal to wage war against Hamas (and the civilians in Gaza) and what they have in response. It is a turkey shoot is it not. Civilians could leave the areas being bombed during WW2. The people in Gaza are trapped. But then you know that yet chose to dig me out and support the person who posts laughing emojis in response to what has been described as genocide. Perhaps it is your mask that is slipping?

 

[Weston Super Saint]

8 hours ago, sadoldgit said:

You don’t see a difference between taking people hostage and killing tens of thousands of other people?

Given a choice I’m thinking that being taken hostage is preferable to being blow apart or buried under a building. 

 

Jesus wept.  Good old Soggy and his binary world.

I guess being taken hostage isn't that much of a serious crime.

[Holmes_and_Watson]

50 minutes ago, Weston Super Saint said:

Jesus wept.  Good old Soggy and his binary world.

I guess being taken hostage isn't that much of a serious crime.

Perhaps, like his view of some child abuse offences, it's "relatively trivial" and that the Hamas atrocities were "not the biggest crimes in the world."

Mind you, this is the guy who told us the hostages were safer with Hamas. I thought of that when I saw footage of some of the releases. The baying crowds, obviously turning out to say goodbye to their friends. The masks to hide the tears of saying goodbye. And the guns because, although the hostages desperately wanted to stay, Hamas had to practically force them to go.

Now we can add that the hostages must have been spending their captivity thinking of all the things it was "preferable" to.

Only in SOGWorld.

[hypochondriac]

Remember you're only allowed to engage in a war if you have similar munitions and equipment. If there is a disparity between two sides, then one would think the weaker party to be pretty stupid for starting a war they were always going to lose. 

[aintforever]

27 minutes ago, hypochondriac said:

Remember you're only allowed to engage in a war if you have similar munitions and equipment. If there is a disparity between two sides, then one would think the weaker party to be pretty stupid for starting a war they were always going to lose. 

If people have nothing to lose they will fight anyway.

[hypochondriac]

39 minutes ago, aintforever said:

If people have nothing to lose they will fight anyway.

Depends how much you degrade their ability to fight. Seems to me that further kidnapping are unlikely to happen again any time soon. 

[Whitey Grandad]

2 hours ago, hypochondriac said:

Remember you're only allowed to engage in a war if you have similar munitions and equipment. If there is a disparity between two sides, then one would think the weaker party to be pretty stupid for starting a war they were always going to lose. 

There is no winning or losing in these types of conflicts.

[hypochondriac]

2 hours ago, Whitey Grandad said:

There is no winning or losing in these types of conflicts.

The aim is to seriously degrade Hamas for a generation and put things in place so that Israelis are less at risk from terror attacks from Hamas. I'd say they are largely meeting those objectives albeit you are correct that ideally conflict would not occur. Sadly conflict is sometimes unavoidable. 

[rallyboy]

4 hours ago, hypochondriac said:

Seems to me that further kidnapping are unlikely to happen again any time soon. 

Yeah, tensions have really cooled over there.

[aintforever]

2 hours ago, hypochondriac said:

. Sadly conflict is sometimes unavoidable. 

Inevitable if people are having their land stolen and being denied their human rights.

[hypochondriac]

58 minutes ago, rallyboy said:

Yeah, tensions have really cooled over there.

Tensions are irrelevant. It's about whether Hamas has the capability to undertake large scale terror attacks or mass kidnappings. I would say that the state of their organisation now makes that less likely at least in the short to medium term. Maybe we will see a spate of kidnappings and large scale terror attacks and you'll be correct. I haven't seen any evidence of that thus far. 

[hypochondriac]

44 minutes ago, aintforever said:

Inevitable if people are having their land stolen and being denied their human rights.

So mass kidnappings were justified? Fair enough because Hamas were provoked? 

[aintforever]

3 hours ago, hypochondriac said:

So mass kidnappings were justified? Fair enough because Hamas were provoked? 

I didn’t say I thought it was justified, just inevitable.

[hypochondriac]

31 minutes ago, aintforever said:

I didn’t say I thought it was justified, just inevitable.

I don't agree but even if it were, what we see now from Israel and it's operations against Hamas is just as inevitable. 

[Holmes_and_Watson]

58 minutes ago, aintforever said:

I didn’t say I thought it was justified, just inevitable.

 

26 minutes ago, hypochondriac said:

I don't agree but even if it were, what we see now from Israel and it's operations against Hamas is just as inevitable. 

Somehow, I just knew the thread would go this way. 🙂

[Farmer Saint]

18 hours ago, hypochondriac said:

The aim is to seriously degrade Hamas for a generation and put things in place so that Israelis are less at risk from terror attacks from Hamas. I'd say they are largely meeting those objectives albeit you are correct that ideally conflict would not occur. Sadly conflict is sometimes unavoidable. 

The issue is the Israeli's have massively increased the number of people who will want to join Hamas. That's what happens when they kill innocent men, women and children.

Maybe that's their plan?

[Gloucester Saint]

35 minutes ago, Farmer Saint said:

The issue is the Israeli's have massively increased the number of people who will want to join Hamas. That's what happens when they kill innocent men, women and children.

Maybe that's their plan?

That region is bonkers enough to actively want another century of violent struggle.

Mind you, America is under Trump is probably even more bonkers and they’ll spur Netanyahu on even more, and ditto Iran and Russia for Hamas. World’s gone mad. Need UK, Canada, EU, Aus/NZ and Japan to stick together. 

[rallyboy]

2 hours ago, Farmer Saint said:

The issue is the Israeli's have massively increased the number of people who will want to join Hamas. That's what happens when they kill innocent men, women and children.

Maybe that's their plan?

Neither Hamas nor Israel really want peace so this war has at least another fifty years in it, and it won't be the leaders who suffer - the innocent Israelis and innocent Palestinians will continue to be the victims.

The war crimes committed in Gaza will push neutral civilians into the arms of extremism and has sadly made terrorism recruitment much easier. 

Israel's argument seems to be that no one is neutral so everyone is a target, but they don't seem to realise that the Palestinian toddlers who crawled out of the rubble will be all grown up in 2040, and some may be keen to make sense of what happened to their families.

 

[Lighthouse]

27 minutes ago, rallyboy said:

Neither Hamas nor Israel really want peace so this war has at least another fifty years in it, and it won't be the leaders who suffer - the innocent Israelis and innocent Palestinians will continue to be the victims.

The war crimes committed in Gaza will push neutral civilians into the arms of extremism and has sadly made terrorism recruitment much easier. 

Israel's argument seems to be that no one is neutral so everyone is a target, but they don't seem to realise that the Palestinian toddlers who crawled out of the rubble will be all grown up in 2040, and some may be keen to make sense of what happened to their families.

 

It’s interesting how people who are so keen to point out the different between Hamas and Palestinians are quite happy to lump ‘Israel’ together under the moniker of ‘Israel’. Why not ‘Netanyahu/Israeli government’ or ‘the IDF’?

[rallyboy]

14 minutes ago, Lighthouse said:

It’s interesting how people who are so keen to point out the different between Hamas and Palestinians are quite happy to lump ‘Israel’ together under the moniker of ‘Israel’. Why not ‘Netanyahu/Israeli government’ or ‘the IDF’?

Read it again, you ignored the innocent Israelis bit out.

You and Hypo love a misquote.

[egg]

6 hours ago, Lighthouse said:

It’s interesting how people who are so keen to point out the different between Hamas and Palestinians are quite happy to lump ‘Israel’ together under the moniker of ‘Israel’. Why not ‘Netanyahu/Israeli government’ or ‘the IDF’?

I'm not sure that you actually read, or understood, what he posted. Regardless, your point was bloody pedantic. Extending your pointless out, people who complain about the "military" side of Hamas are in fact complaining about the actions of the Al-Qassam brigade but nobody has been daft enough to insist on your sort of distinction, as we all know who is being referred to.

 

[Lighthouse]

2 hours ago, egg said:

I'm not sure that you actually read, or understood, what he posted. Regardless, your point was bloody pedantic. Extending your pointless out, people who complain about the "military" side of Hamas are in fact complaining about the actions of the Al-Qassam brigade but nobody has been daft enough to insist on your sort of distinction, as we all know who is being referred to.

It's not pedantic it's a fundamental issue in this conflict. There is clearly a collective attitude among some that 'Israel' is just one entity but Palestinians can be absolved of any wrongdoing by refering to Hamas as a separate entity. If you walk around any UK city waving an Israeli flag, you wont get people telling you, "I understand your support for the Israeli people but not necessarily their military," you will get told, "you're scum, look at what Israel does to innocent Palestinians."

There are clearly double standards in play here, which contribute to the subconscious animosity towards all Israelis.

[egg]

1 hour ago, Lighthouse said:

It's not pedantic it's a fundamental issue in this conflict. There is clearly a collective attitude among some that 'Israel' is just one entity but Palestinians can be absolved of any wrongdoing by refering to Hamas as a separate entity. If you walk around any UK city waving an Israeli flag, you wont get people telling you, "I understand your support for the Israeli people but not necessarily their military," you will get told, "you're scum, look at what Israel does to innocent Palestinians."

There are clearly double standards in play here, which contribute to the subconscious animosity towards all Israelis.

I think you're (mis) interpreting things 

Hamas/Al-Qassam are not representative of all Palestinians. The Israeli government/IDF are not representative of all Israeli's. Nobody on here has suggested otherwise and I'm in no doubt that the masses also understand that. 

People refer to Hamas as they are the governing political party behind the awful behaviour of the Al-Qassam brigade. It makes sense to refer to them simply as Hamas. You do. 

There is no single governing party in Israel. Addressing the government machine behind the awful behaviour of the IDF by reference to the governing parties of Likud, Shas, United Torah Judaism, the Religious Zionist Party, Otzma Yehudit and Noam, would be a bit of a mouthful. Israel or the Israeli government seems a sensible moniker instead.

If you insist on referring to the military (IDF) as responsible, I note you have never referenced Al-Qassam. Using your words, double standards could be at play, although I'm in no doubt that you're in fact just being sensible. However, you seemingly can't accept other being doing the same in reverse, probably because it doesn't suit your narrative. 

 

Edited Sunday at 20:42 by egg

[Farmer Saint]

13 hours ago, Lighthouse said:

It's not pedantic it's a fundamental issue in this conflict. There is clearly a collective attitude among some that 'Israel' is just one entity but Palestinians can be absolved of any wrongdoing by refering to Hamas as a separate entity. If you walk around any UK city waving an Israeli flag, you wont get people telling you, "I understand your support for the Israeli people but not necessarily their military," you will get told, "you're scum, look at what Israel does to innocent Palestinians."

There are clearly double standards in play here, which contribute to the subconscious animosity towards all Israelis.

I'm happy to change any of my posts to split the Israeli people and the Government/Military if that helps to differentiate for you - I am certainly not doing as you suggest (and I would expect most others on this thread are not either).

Edited yesterday at 08:43 by Farmer Saint

[Lord Duckhunter]

17 hours ago, Lighthouse said:

It's not pedantic it's a fundamental issue in this conflict. There is clearly a collective attitude among some that 'Israel' is just one entity but Palestinians can be absolved of any wrongdoing by refering to Hamas as a separate entity. If you walk around any UK city waving an Israeli flag, you wont get people telling you, "I understand your support for the Israeli people but not necessarily their military," you will get told, "you're scum, look at what Israel does to innocent Palestinians."

There are clearly double standards in play here, which contribute to the subconscious animosity towards all Israelis.

Spot on. 
 

There are even some people, including one contributor to this thread, that struggle to differentiate between Jews & Israelis, so it’s not really a surprise. 
 

A fifth of Israelis are Arabs, so the catch all “Israelis” when discussing the Government isn’t really appropriate. 

 

[sadoldgit]

I assume you are referring to me. I did explain that the element in the Government who are intent on wiping out Palestinians happen to be Jewish Israelis and have differentiated between Netanyahu and his cronies and other Israelis since as you seemed intent on taking my posts against these extremists as antisemitism. At the time you didn’t even to know how to spell Netanyahu so your in depth knowledge of the situation looks a bit shaky. Going on holiday to Israel doesn’t make you an expert in the conflict, clearly.

Getting back to what is happening, more atrocities here. The IDF are saying that they shot at Hamas. At least one of the care workers had his hands tied behind his back when he was shot dead.

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2025/mar/31/israel-killed-15-palestinian-paramedics-and-rescue-workers-one-by-one-says-un

[Lord Duckhunter]

On 21/06/2023 at 10:33, sadoldgit said:

but given the way that Jewish people have been discriminated against through the ages their treatment of the Palestinians does them no credit.