Israel

[egg]

1 hour ago, AlexLaw76 said:

You have been around the Lounge for a long time, I must have missed this type of post with the many times Soggy randomly calls someone racist, far right etc.

If you can provide a link, that would be great.

The issue is that you and others play the poster not the post. Your reaction yesterday to a sensible post from SoG was plain stupid, and unnecessary. 

Edited 16 February, 2024 by egg

[hypochondriac]

On 16/02/2024 at 14:11, egg said:

The issue is that you and others play the poster not the post. Your reaction yesterday to a sensible post from SoG was plain stupid, and unnecessary. 

I think if you're going to accuse someone of playing the poster and not the post, then soggy is pretty much the main culprit. 

[egg]

3 hours ago, hypochondriac said:

I think if you're going to accuse someone of playing the poster and not the post, then soggy is pretty much the main culprit. 

...

Edited 17 February, 2024 by egg
Can't be arsed.

[hypochondriac]

20 minutes ago, egg said:

"it was him not me". There's a rather serious issue in Gaza, and people are still making this about SoG. Pretty tragic imo. 

Oh right. Because it's impossible to discuss two things simultaneously. It's not like someone being accused of antisemitic posts and then refusing to address it, instead choosing to attack posters rather than address the substance of their complaints, isn't relevant to this thread. It's hardly preventing discussion about Israel which is what 99% of this thread is and no one is preventing you from talking about it as is clear in the previous pages. Hard to think you wouldn't be quite so quick with a defence if you didn't agree with him on this issue. 

Edited 17 February, 2024 by hypochondriac

[egg]

19 minutes ago, hypochondriac said:

Oh right. Because it's impossible to discuss two things simultaneously. It's not like someone being accused of antisemitic posts and then refusing to address it, instead choosing to attack posters rather than address the substance of their complaints, isn't relevant to this thread. It's hardly preventing discussion about Israel which is what 99% of this thread is and no one is preventing you from talking about it as is clear in the previous pages. Hard to think you wouldn't be quite so quick with a defence if you didn't agree with him on this issue. 

I'm not defending SoG. I've said that's it's pretty pathetic that people have made this thread about him. Different thing. 

[hypochondriac]

24 minutes ago, egg said:

I'm not defending SoG. I've said that's it's pretty pathetic that people have made this thread about him. Different thing. 

This page is 49 pages long. 90%+ of it is about Israel. No doubt in a few posts after this there will be discussion of Israel again. I wouldn't let it upset you. 

[Lord Duckhunter]

Soggy posted an anti semitic comment on the third post of this thread, back in June,  3 months before 7/10. People should remember that before criticising others. 

[egg]

1 hour ago, Lord Duckhunter said:

Soggy posted an anti semitic comment on the third post of this thread, back in June,  3 months before 7/10. People should remember that before criticising others. 

Transpose the words "the Israeli's" for "their" and you get his true intentions. You know perfectly well what he meant. 

[badgerx16]

4 minutes ago, egg said:

Transpose the words "the Israeli's" for "their" and you get his true intentions. You know perfectly well what he meant. 

Some of the misreadings of SOGgy's posts do come across as anti-semantic.

[Lord Duckhunter]

26 minutes ago, egg said:

Transpose the words "the Israeli's" for "their" and you get his true intentions. You know perfectly well what he meant. 

More excuses for him. 
 

Over various threads, over multiple posts, he’s posted anti semitic/racist comments. He’s been pulled up on it by various posters, not just the “pile on” gang. But for some bizarre reason you go out of your way to defend it. I’ll judge him by what he writes. Anyone who spends a day researching whether The Jews are a race, has serious issues with Jewish folk I’m afraid. 

[egg]

41 minutes ago, Lord Duckhunter said:

More excuses for him. 
 

Over various threads, over multiple posts, he’s posted anti semitic/racist comments. He’s been pulled up on it by various posters, not just the “pile on” gang. But for some bizarre reason you go out of your way to defend it. I’ll judge him by what he writes. Anyone who spends a day researching whether The Jews are a race, has serious issues with Jewish folk I’m afraid. 

I think the focus on the bloke is tragic and unnecessary. Some of the stuff he posts os bollox, but I don't believe the bloke is remotely racist or anti semitic. Some may view your posts as sexist and misogynistic, but I don't believe you're those things. Too many blokes who live in glass houses throw stones. 

[sadoldgit]

On 21/06/2023 at 10:33, sadoldgit said:

It seems that you can’t criticise the Israelis nowadays without being labelled an antisemite or Holocaust denier.

The was going to be a film screened at Glastonbury about Jeremy Corbyn and the “conspiracy theory” about him being antisemitic but the Board of Deputies of British Jews has lent on the organisers and they have pulled it. Pure censorship and if this had been the other way round you can imagine the uproar.

It is a massively complex situation and goodness knows how you reach a compromise that would satisfy both sides, but given the way that Jewish people have been discriminated against through the ages their treatment of the Palestinians does them no credit. You don’t get a free pass to crush someone or displace them just because it has happened to you in the past.

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/jeremy-corbyn-board-of-deputies-of-british-jews-labour-jewish-los-angeles-b2361117.html

This is the third post on this thread. You would have to go some to make out that this comment is anyway antisemitic, but that is we are these days. Netanyahu has done a good job of conflating Israel and Judaism. As we know, if you criticise a Jewish person you are labelled an antisemite by some. The same is happening now when you criticise the actions of the Israeli government. It comes to something when you feel you can’t comment on the death of over 28,000 people and the destruction of large swathes of housing, hospitals, schools, universities etc without facing a pile on and a deliberate misinterpretation of your posts. As Gary Lineker would say, it is reminiscent of what went on in the 30’s.

And in reference to the word “their”, yes, I was referring to those responsible for the actions against the Palestinian people. I thought that was pretty obvious but then I forgot about the small group of posters with an agenda.

[egg]

8 minutes ago, sadoldgit said:

This is the third post on this thread. You would have to go some to make out that this comment is anyway antisemitic, but that is we are these days. Netanyahu has done a good job of conflating Israel and Judaism. As we know, if you criticise a Jewish person you are labelled an antisemite by some. The same is happening now when you criticise the actions of the Israeli government. It comes to something when you feel you can’t comment on the death of over 28,000 people and the destruction of large swathes of housing, hospitals, schools, universities etc without facing a pile on and a deliberate misinterpretation of your posts. As Gary Lineker would say, it is reminiscent of what went on in the 30’s.

And in reference to the word “their”, yes, I was referring to those responsible for the actions against the Palestinian people. I thought that was pretty obvious but then I forgot about the small group of posters with an agenda.

It was obvious. And yes, the conflagration of Jewish and Israeli has become common place in many areas. 

[whelk]

11 minutes ago, sadoldgit said:

You don’t get a free pass to crush someone or displace them just because it has happened to you in the past.

Lol

[whelk]

1 minute ago, egg said:

It was obvious. And yes, the conflagration of Jewish and Israeli has become common place in many areas. 

The antisemitism in Labour Party was all a figment of their (Jews) imagination. Nothing needed purging and Corbyn was unjustly labelled antisemitic. That Is SOG’s view because he is far better placed to see it than someone who is Jewish.

I have no agenda against him but he clearly has views that Jewish people woudl find appalling. Argue with him and you soon get labelled ‘pile on’ ‘far right’ etc. he is a sanctimonious old simpleton who cannot actually debate

[Turkish]

27 minutes ago, egg said:

I think the focus on the bloke is tragic and unnecessary. Some of the stuff he posts os bollox, but I don't believe the bloke is remotely racist or anti semitic. Some may view your posts as sexist and misogynistic, but I don't believe you're those things. Too many blokes who live in glass houses throw stones. 

I very much doubt anyone on here is racist but that’s hasn’t stopped the person in question labelling everyone with it who doesn’t align with his view. If you’re going to go around doing that over a period of years, let’s not forgot, dont grizzle when people give it back. 

[Turkish]

4 minutes ago, whelk said:

The antisemitism in Labour Party was all a figment of their (Jews) imagination. Nothing needed purging and Corbyn was unjustly labelled antisemitic. That Is SOG’s view because he is far better placed to see it than someone who is Jewish.

I have no agenda against him but he clearly has views that Jewish people woudl find appalling. Argue with him and you soon get labelled ‘pile on’ ‘far right’ etc. he is a sanctimonious old simpleton who cannot actually debate

Which is ironic given in the past he preached how no one white and English can possibly know what it’s like to be a black person in this country so therefore cannot decide what racism is. 

[AlexLaw76]

2 minutes ago, Turkish said:

I very much doubt anyone on here is racist but that’s hasn’t stopped the person in question labelling everyone with it who doesn’t align with his view. If you’re going to go around doing that over a period of years, let’s not forgot, dont grizzle when people give it back. 

I recall his horror at anyone daring to question the Ched Evans conviction, calling them 'rape apologists'.....

Ched was found not guilty in the end...

Then, he defended Geoffrey Boycott

LoLz

[hypochondriac]

Hamas leader Ismail Haniyeh said today that Hamas “will not accept anything less than a complete cessation of the aggression, withdrawal of the occupation army from Gaza and lifting of the unjust siege" in exchange for a return of the hostages. 

 

What an evil bunch of monsters, issuing this decrees from abroad, they I don't give a shit about any Palestinians. Free the hostages you have and then call for peace, I think you'd find there'd be a hell of a lot more support than calling for it while you still have a load of innocent people held hostage. 

[badgerx16]

1 hour ago, egg said:

It was obvious. And yes, the conflagration of Jewish and Israeli has become common place in many areas. 

I think you need to check the autocorrect on whatever device you are typing.

[egg]

10 minutes ago, badgerx16 said:

I think you need to check the autocorrect on whatever device you are typing.

Cheers... done!

[Lord Duckhunter]

20 hours ago, sadoldgit said:

You don’t get a free pass to crush someone or displace them just because it has happened to you in the past.

I know you’re trying to hide behind a sentence containing the word “their”, but that’s irrelevant. Under the international working definition you wrote something that was anti semitic. It’s got fuck all to do with the context you wrote “their” in. “Their” didn’t even appear in the anti semitic part. The fact you’re still defending yourself proves you just don’t understand and need to educate yourself. 

[whelk]

What’s SNP’s obsession with wanting to debate Gaza? Fucking joke these twats wanting publicity although I know it will give SOG a hard on. 

 

[Holmes_and_Watson]

26 minutes ago, whelk said:

What’s SNP’s obsession with wanting to debate Gaza? Fucking joke these twats wanting publicity although I know it will give SOG a hard on. 

 

Not least the same reasons they put it forward in the first place.

With a vast catalogue of incompetence, centralisation that abandons their support, ongoing police investigations into fraud/corruption, and being beholden to swivel eyed extremists from another party, they are desperate to gain any foothold they can over Scottish Labour (the previous collection of troughers). That's where the collective punishment part came from. They want to use Labour's division to score points at home.

There's also a decent sized element of diversion from independence of another group, the Scottish one they now only pay lip service to, when there's an upcoming election. They know the figures don't support it, and trundle out more and more desperate soundbites, as time goes on. Their leader got confused only a week ago over what fantasy threshold they'd now put in place that supposedly represents the will of the people.

With that gone, membership plummeting, unheard of division in their single voice output (dumped popular members after their dodgy election processes), their record on everything else being appalling, any flag waving cause is a good cause.

That's the party level reality, leaving out the rights and wrongs of any stance.

[badgerx16]

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-middle-east-68400463

[hypochondriac]

2 hours ago, badgerx16 said:

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-middle-east-68400463

I bet he feels untold anger at Hamas. If only they had surrendered and given up the hostages, many in his family would still be alive. What a tragedy. 

[egg]

1 hour ago, hypochondriac said:

I bet he feels untold anger at Hamas. If only they had surrendered and given up the hostages, many in his family would still be alive. What a tragedy. 

Sure. Nothing at all to do with the oppression that the Palestinians have faced, and the completely OTT response from Israel. All Hamas making Israel send in fighter jets to take out residential homes. 

[Fan The Flames]

2 hours ago, hypochondriac said:

I bet he feels untold anger at Hamas. If only they had surrendered and given up the hostages, many in his family would still be alive. What a tragedy. 

The hierarchy of blame.

[whelk]

55 minutes ago, egg said:

Sure. Nothing at all to do with the oppression that the Palestinians have faced, and the completely OTT response from Israel. All Hamas making Israel send in fighter jets to take out residential homes. 

“It didn’t happen in a vacuum”

[egg]

37 minutes ago, whelk said:

“It didn’t happen in a vacuum”

The whole thing hasn't, and it didn't start on 7/10. 

[rallyboy]

If it's holding a fishing rod as it types, it's probably a troll fishing for bites.

 

[egg]

2 minutes ago, rallyboy said:

If it's holding a fishing rod as it types, it's probably a troll fishing for bites.

 

To be fair, he's got a full house of replies. 

[hypochondriac]

2 hours ago, egg said:

Sure. Nothing at all to do with the oppression that the Palestinians have faced, and the completely OTT response from Israel. All Hamas making Israel send in fighter jets to take out residential homes. 

And yet none of what I said is untrue. Had Hamas cared about the civilians of Gaza, faced the music for their crimes and given up the hostages they are still in possession of, there would be no casualties of war. The proportionality of the Israeli response is of course up for debate but it doesn't change that fact. Hamas have the power to end this. They choose not to. 

[sadoldgit]

It was a crass, ignorant, nasty, inhumane, Islamophobic post from a crass, ignorant, nasty, inhumane, Islamophobic poster. Who can forget his infamous “Thank God my wife isn’t a Muslim” post?

He has also told us recently that Kemi Badenoch would get his vote as the next PM. Yes, this Kemi Badenoch.

https://news.sky.com/story/amp/tory-vice-chair-kemi-badenoch-says-political-motive-to-islamophobia-call-11544933
 

Sadly people like this are becoming emboldened to crawl out from under their rocks by inflammatory, ridiculous statements from  senior Tories like Anderson, Braverman and Badenoch and they are now getting more vocal support from little known backbenchers too.

In the case of two of our resident Islamophobes though, the ones who think it is appropriate to put laughing emojis under posts talking about the dreadful plight of tens of thousands of innocent people, they have been using extremist Islamic groups to have a pop at ordinary Muslims for years. The only difference is that they now feel validated because some pathetic excuses of MPs are desperately trying to stoke up a hate war because they don’t have anything else to fight with at the next election. They know that, by spouting this nonsense, it will attract people like these. The dog whistle never fails, but fortunately there aren’t enough hypochondriacs and Duckhunter’s around to vote in a Tice, Farage, Braverman or Badenoch lead government at the moment.

What is particularly worrying is that this particular poster has been working with children. Let’s hope he wasn’t entrusted with teaching them about humanity or empathy.

As for Hamas having the power to end this, what utter rubbish. Netanyahu has been looking for an excuse to do this for years. He has made it clear that, no matter what anyone else says or does, he isn’t going to stop.

Edited 27 February, 2024 by sadoldgit
Added text

[badgerx16]

27 minutes ago, hypochondriac said:

And yet none of what I said is untrue. Had Hamas cared about the civilians of Gaza, faced the music for their crimes and given up the hostages they are still in possession of, there would be no casualties of war. The proportionality of the Israeli response is of course up for debate but it doesn't change that fact. Hamas have the power to end this. They choose not to. 

I don't think that 4 months after the original atrocity Israel would stop even if all the remaining hostages were released today. That does not grant objective number 1 - the eradication of Hamas'.

[egg]

57 minutes ago, hypochondriac said:

And yet none of what I said is untrue. Had Hamas cared about the civilians of Gaza, faced the music for their crimes and given up the hostages they are still in possession of, there would be no casualties of war. The proportionality of the Israeli response is of course up for debate but it doesn't change that fact. Hamas have the power to end this. They choose not to. 

Had Israel cared about the civilians of Israel, faced the music for their crimes and given up the land they'd occupied and are still in possession of (and the thousand of "prisoners"), there would be no casualties of war.

The suggestion that Hamas have the power to end this is nonsense. This doesn't end with Israeli hostages being released. That doesn't address the need for a 2 stage solution which Israel oppose despite almost universal support from the west. 

Occupation and Israeli oppression is the root of this. Not hostages or 7/10. 

[hypochondriac]

29 minutes ago, badgerx16 said:

I don't think that 4 months after the original atrocity Israel would stop even if all the remaining hostages were released today. That does not grant objective number 1 - the eradication of Hamas'.

Well you don't know that do you. Surrender of Hamas and return of the hostages would imo instantly end any support that Israel has in the international community since there would no longer be a need to hold Hamas to account or to retrieve the hostages. What Hamas should have done is do all that four months ago then imo the vast majority of this would not have happened. But they didn't because they don't give a shit about the Palestinian people. Clearly. 

[hypochondriac]

1 minute ago, egg said:

Had Israel cared about the civilians of Israel, faced the music for their crimes and given up the land they'd occupied and are still in possession of (and the thousand of "prisoners"), there would be no casualties of war.

The suggestion that Hamas have the power to end this is nonsense. This doesn't end with Israeli hostages being released. That doesn't address the need for a 2 stage solution which Israel oppose despite almost universal support from the west. 

Occupation and Israeli oppression is the root of this. Not hostages or 7/10. 

So Israel are responsible for 7/10?

[whelk]

41 minutes ago, sadoldgit said:

It was a crass, ignorant, nasty, inhumane, Islamophobic post from a crass, ignorant, nasty, inhumane, Islamophobic poster. Who can forget his infamous “Thank God my wife isn’t a Muslim” post?

He has also told us recently that Kemi Badenoch would get his vote as the next PM. Yes, this Kemi Badenoch.

https://news.sky.com/story/amp/tory-vice-chair-kemi-badenoch-says-political-motive-to-islamophobia-call-11544933
 

Sadly people like this are becoming emboldened to crawl out from under their rocks by inflammatory, ridiculous statements from  senior Tories like Anderson, Braverman and Badenoch and they are now getting more vocal support from little known backbenchers too.

In the case of two of our resident Islamophobes though, the ones who think it is appropriate to put laughing emojis under posts talking about the dreadful plight of tens of thousands of innocent people, they have been using extremist Islamic groups to have a pop at ordinary Muslims for years. The only difference is that they now feel validated because some pathetic excuses of MPs are desperately trying to stoke up a hate war because they don’t have anything else to fight with at the next election. They know that, by spouting this nonsense, it will attract people like these. The dog whistle never fails, but fortunately there aren’t enough hypochondriacs and Duckhunter’s around to vote in a Tice, Farage, Braverman or Badenoch lead government at the moment.

What is particularly worrying is that this particular poster has been working with children. Let’s hope he wasn’t entrusted with teaching them about humanity or empathy.

As for Hamas having the power to end this, what utter rubbish. Netanyahu has been looking for an excuse to do this for years. He has made it clear that, no matter what anyone else says or does, he isn’t going to stop.

You need to be more tolerant. ‘People like this’? What do you know about him other than he has different political views to you? Worrying is how you can’t see how much anger and hate you have, you just think it is righteously pointed at your enemy. It is how wars start.

[whelk]

5 minutes ago, egg said:

Had Israel cared about the civilians of Israel, faced the music for their crimes and given up the land they'd occupied and are still in possession of (and the thousand of "prisoners"), there would be no casualties of war.

The suggestion that Hamas have the power to end this is nonsense. This doesn't end with Israeli hostages being released. That doesn't address the need for a 2 stage solution which Israel oppose despite almost universal support from the west. 

Occupation and Israeli oppression is the root of this. Not hostages or 7/10. 

We aren’t ever going to agree on this but 7/10 started this. Stupid to say this is what Israel wanted to give go ahead to level Gaza. Had 7/10 not happened the world would be far more peaceful and thousands more Palestinians would still be alive

Edited 27 February, 2024 by whelk

[hypochondriac]

2 minutes ago, whelk said:

You need to be more tolerant. ‘People like this’? What do you know about him other than he has different political views to you? Worrying is how you can’t see how much anger and hate you have, you just think it is righteously pointed at your enemy. It is how wars start.

In the eyes of soggy I'm the forum untermench and the just thing to do would be to hate those people who aren't worthy of holding opinions that I disagree with. So much hate like you say. 

[hypochondriac]

3 minutes ago, whelk said:

We aren’t ever going to agree on this but 7/10 started this. Stupid to say this is what Israel wanted to give go ahead to level Gaza. Had 7/10 not happened the world would be far more peaceful and thousands more Palestinians would still be alive

You'd think if they were craving 7/10 that it would have been Israelis partying on the streets of Tel Aviv because finally they have the chance to kill loads of civilians rather than the terrorists and the terrorist sympathisers. 

[egg]

27 minutes ago, hypochondriac said:

So Israel are responsible for 7/10?

If you believe this only began on 7/10 there's no point discussing it with you. In the words of Duck, educate yourself. 

[egg]

25 minutes ago, whelk said:

We aren’t ever going to agree on this but 7/10 started this. Stupid to say this is what Israel wanted to give go ahead to level Gaza. Had 7/10 not happened the world would be far more peaceful and thousands more Palestinians would still be alive

7/10 started this phase. Israel didn't want this, but they've taken the opportunity with bells on. Had 7/10 not happened, the Palestinians would have blown their top at some point and Israel would have kicked the shit out of them.

However you cut it, there was always gonna be a proper flare up without addressing the fundamentals of 2 states/occupation. 

[hypochondriac]

25 minutes ago, egg said:

If you believe this only began on 7/10 there's no point discussing it with you. In the words of Duck, educate yourself. 

I didn't say that did I. Are Israel responsible for 7/10

[aintforever]

37 minutes ago, hypochondriac said:

I didn't say that did I. Are Israel responsible for 7/10

Hamas are responsible but if you steal people's land and deprive them of their freedom you have got to expect some comeback.

[hypochondriac]

7 minutes ago, aintforever said:

Hamas are responsible but if you steal people's land and deprive them of their freedom you have got to expect some comeback.

So they at least partially brought it on themselves? They were asking for it? 

[aintforever]

2 minutes ago, hypochondriac said:

So they at least partially brought it on themselves? They were asking for it? 

When the head of the UN says "it didn't happen in a vacuum", what do you suppose he meant?

[Weston Super Saint]

9 minutes ago, aintforever said:

Hamas are responsible but if you steal people's land and deprive them of their freedom you have got to expect some comeback.

How true.

Just like when Russia stole land from Ukraine and deprived it's citizens of their freedom.

Ukraine did exactly the same thing, flew across the border, murder hundreds of innocent citizens and went back home with hundreds of hostages.

Always expect that comeback....

[aintforever]

5 minutes ago, Weston Super Saint said:

How true.

Just like when Russia stole land from Ukraine and deprived it's citizens of their freedom.

Ukraine did exactly the same thing, flew across the border, murder hundreds of innocent citizens and went back home with hundreds of hostages.

Always expect that comeback....

Hamas were always going to fight back the way they did, they are not is a position to go toe to toe with one of the world's most advanced armies.

Once this war dies down I expect they will do the same again if the situation is as it was before.