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Pre Season Friendlies 2023/24

Master Bates

By Master Bates,
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davefizzy14

davefizzy14

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I thought first half we looked to build up the play from the back too slowly. Much better in the second half. That pitch and surface that we played on was absolutely shocking. Prowsey would 100% have scored that penalty if it weren't for that! The amount of times players were slipping over. Much better in the second half with the changes. Alcaraz - class finish, Lavia - a level above. Aribo and Amo-Ameyaw very good too. Lots to build on ahead of the next friendly - COYR :)

Edited by davefizzy14
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Saint Fan CaM

Saint Fan CaM

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It’s a pre-season friendly, but there are some worrying signs that this squad has reached its natural level - Turkish division 2 level. And even then it would struggle to score. Relying on Adams, Armstrong and Mara to score goals is like waiting for a bus in the middle of the Sahara desert. I want to believe, I want to like Martins football…but it ain’t happening at the moment.

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hypochondriac

hypochondriac

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28 minutes ago, Saint Fan CaM said:

It’s a pre-season friendly, but there are some worrying signs that this squad has reached its natural level - Turkish division 2 level. And even then it would struggle to score. Relying on Adams, Armstrong and Mara to score goals is like waiting for a bus in the middle of the Sahara desert. I want to believe, I want to like Martins football…but it ain’t happening at the moment.

I didn't see much wrong with the football if I'm honest. It's the team who have to carry it out. Imo a team of 

New gk /Bazunu 

Tino bednarek new cb Manning 

Charles

Tella jwp Sulemana 

Alcaraz 

New striker /Van Hoojdonk? 

Would be able to start the season and be reasonably confident of success. You could also bring in amo ameyew, a couple of the other youth players and maybe someone like the Swansea captain to replace jwp. That's really only one or two players associated in any big way with last season and thus less tainted. The likes of Armstrong can be introduced if they prove themselves and perform but we mustn't be in a position where we have to rely on them.

Edited by hypochondriac
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RobM

RobM

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14 minutes ago, Saint Fan CaM said:

It’s a pre-season friendly, but there are some worrying signs that this squad has reached its natural level - Turkish division 2 level. And even then it would struggle to score. Relying on Adams, Armstrong and Mara to score goals is like waiting for a bus in the middle of the Sahara desert. I want to believe, I want to like Martins football…but it ain’t happening at the moment.

IMO all it proves is our squad has been the problem for a while, and we still haven’t addressed the obvious weaknesses such as scoring goals. It’s like Groundhog Day. 

Martin will need more games to get his style across, but it’s all pointless if we still don’t have anyone who can score. 

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Harry_SFC

Harry_SFC

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As others have mentioned, the two glaring weaknesses are at CB and CF. We need a proper ball playing CB to partner Bednarek and a striker who actually looks like a threat. 

If we sign those players plus someone to replace JWP when he goes then I'll be a lot more confident. 

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saintant

saintant

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1 hour ago, RobM said:

IMO all it proves is our squad has been the problem for a while, and we still haven’t addressed the obvious weaknesses such as scoring goals. It’s like Groundhog Day. 

Martin will need more games to get his style across, but it’s all pointless if we still don’t have anyone who can score. 

Agree we aren't ruthless in front of goal but we don't create nearly enough chances. Create more opportunities and some of them will go in so the misses will not be so costly. We create so little we can't afford to miss. 

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HarvSFC

HarvSFC

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Getting Piroe is key. Armstrong's headless chicken act certainly doesn't fit in with the possession based football, while I was very much disappointed by the performance in a player I rate, Adams last night. Didn't look like he was with us at all.

Smallbone's also, just a nothing player. Might be okay as a squad player, but he definitely shouldn't be starting in a promotion seeking team. We need a playmaker, somebody who can create chances. I don't think we've had one since Tadic left. Manning can certainly help, but a midfielder who can help us build up the pitch would be ideal.

Got to leave Lyanco in Turkey too. Getting pulled all over the pitch by a Turkish second division side.

Positives, of course Alcaraz. From all the shit attackers signed last season, he really is a quality player. None of the other players in our team would have managed that goal first time last night.

Sam Amo-Ameyaw, again. He just gets the ball, runs and beats players. A 16 year old against seniors. Pretty incredible. 

 

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saintant

saintant

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Not a huge fan of keep-ball football where it's 100% about possession. I always think this discourages any bravery on the ball which leads to stale, negative play. It drives me nuts when we work a promising position well inside opposition territory and, because a simple pass isn't on, we go backwards and recycle leading us inevitably down the same blind alley. When we get into an attacking situation, if there's no easy pass on take the difficult option or try taking on an opponent. We have to be far more positive in the way we play or it'll be a season of pass sideways, backwards, rinse and repeat. It won't be good to watch unless we change our approach.

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OnceaSaintalwaysaSaint

OnceaSaintalwaysaSaint

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17 minutes ago, saintant said:

Not a huge fan of keep-ball football where it's 100% about possession. I always think this discourages any bravery on the ball which leads to stale, negative play. It drives me nuts when we work a promising position well inside opposition territory and, because a simple pass isn't on, we go backwards and recycle leading us inevitably down the same blind alley. When we get into an attacking situation, if there's no easy pass on take the difficult option or try taking on an opponent. We have to be far more positive in the way we play or it'll be a season of pass sideways, backwards, rinse and repeat. It won't be good to watch unless we change our approach.

Got to agree. This time, though, there do seem to be a couple of options to pass further forward. Tella and the new lads looked lively. AA , however, still runs down blind alleys and Che, bless him, is just useless. I don't buy in to this "they've scored hundreds of goals in the championship before so they'll do ok" line of thinking.  We've just spent £15m on a defender. The same amount will buy two quality lower league strikers. Surely our scouts can find them....

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Smirking_Saint

Smirking_Saint

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I think generally pre season friendlies are, for all intents and purposes, finding out which players can carry out your plans, and who cannot… its a chance to improve cohesion and fitness but ultimately the result doesn’t really matter, especially because you’re enforcing so many changes its hard to maintain stability

From what I saw the obvious lads are still capable at this level and these tactics, JWP, Lavia, Alcaraz, Tino and even Bednarek all looked a level above

Aribo, Meghoma, Amenyaw, Tella all looked good

Unfortunately from what Ive seen Lyanco, Stephens, Armstrong aren’t really up to the task… Smallbone is what I thought he’d be, tidy on the ball but just doesn’t offer anything

Che dissapointed me yesterday, he’s recovering from injury so Ill give him the benefit of the doubt of course for now

Will be interesting to see the progression into the next game, we played some good football and dominated but the conceded goal was dreadful both defensively and goalkeeping wise and we simply need to start creating more chances in the final third

From what Ive seen

 

- - - - - - Baz - - - - - -

Tino - JB - - New - - Manning

- - - - - - -Charles - - - - - -

- - -JWP/New/Smallbone- - - -

 - - - - - - - - - - - -Alcaraz - - -

Tella - - - New - - -Edozie/Sulemana

 

All reinforced by the young lads and potentially new additions 

Edited by Smirking_Saint
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hypochondriac

hypochondriac

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Posted
24 minutes ago, OnceaSaintalwaysaSaint said:

Got to agree. This time, though, there do seem to be a couple of options to pass further forward. Tella and the new lads looked lively. AA , however, still runs down blind alleys and Che, bless him, is just useless. I don't buy in to this "they've scored hundreds of goals in the championship before so they'll do ok" line of thinking.  We've just spent £15m on a defender. The same amount will buy two quality lower league strikers. Surely our scouts can find them....

We really should be spending 15-20 million on a top championship striker to suit our system. 

Bring in someone like Ronnie Edwards at the back to play alongside Bednarek and Piroe or Van Hoojdonk up top and that's our starting 11 sorted (other than replacing Bazunu but I'm not holding out much hope for that.)

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qwertyell

qwertyell

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11 hours ago, VectisSaint said:

Without a new striker, preferably two, we will get nowhere this season. We are toothless in front of goal. Deja Vu.

In defence of the forwards yesterday, what chances were created for them? 

Mara winning a (dubious) penalty was all his own work.

As a team we aren't even providing scraps. It might be fair to lump the strikers into the mix as part of the overall problem - maybe they're not making the right runs or finding enough space in the box - but the service has been and continues to be nonexistent.

Doesn't matter who is up front if we can't get the ball to them.

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saintant

saintant

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2 hours ago, qwertyell said:

In defence of the forwards yesterday, what chances were created for them? 

Mara winning a (dubious) penalty was all his own work.

As a team we aren't even providing scraps. It might be fair to lump the strikers into the mix as part of the overall problem - maybe they're not making the right runs or finding enough space in the box - but the service has been and continues to be nonexistent.

Doesn't matter who is up front if we can't get the ball to them.

Spot on. Let's not keep saying none of our forwards can score when they are being offered very few decent chances. It's the build up play that is far too slow and the lack of players who can provide the killer passes. 

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coalman

coalman

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25 minutes ago, saintant said:

Spot on. Let's not keep saying none of our forwards can score when they are being offered very few decent chances. It's the build up play that is far too slow and the lack of players who can provide the killer passes. 

And our inability to transition play through midfield. Plus when fullbacks do overlap the midfielder tends to ignore them and turn back. Lost count of the number of times last season(s) that a fullback had bombed forward for the overlap only to be ignored.

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VectisSaint

VectisSaint

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29 minutes ago, saintant said:

Spot on. Let's not keep saying none of our forwards can score when they are being offered very few decent chances. It's the build up play that is far too slow and the lack of players who can provide the killer passes. 

There were plenty of balls into the box yesterday, but no predator there to make use. I stand by what I said, without a proper striker or two we will get nowhere. We need more creativity as well, but you can create all the chances you want but if you don't have someone who can put away the chances you are doomed to failure. To get automatic promotion we need to score 70-80 goals, I can't see any of our lot making serious dents in that total.

 

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S-Clarke

S-Clarke

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I love Alcaraz's instinct to get into the box, his finishing is so accurate 90% of the time as well. He'd get more goals than Adams if he was played up top.

I think it's going to be ridiculous having a player of Charly's ability in the Championship, we need to make sure we make the most out of it!

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manji

manji

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8 hours ago, Saint Fan CaM said:

It’s a pre-season friendly, but there are some worrying signs that this squad has reached its natural level - Turkish division 2 level. And even then it would struggle to score. Relying on Adams, Armstrong and Mara to score goals is like waiting for a bus in the middle of the Sahara desert. I want to believe, I want to like Martins football…but it ain’t happening at the moment.

Two games for goodness sake. It’s obvious we will sign more players.

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Ribtickler

Ribtickler

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Preseason friendlies really bring out the utter bed wetting, gender neutral toilet, just stop oil, Andrew Tate,  Oceangate Submarine people in the fanbase.

Well done for not understanding what preseason is about, stick to playing football manager on your gameboy

That's all i will say on the matter. 

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niceandfriendly

niceandfriendly

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Posted (edited)
1 hour ago, Ribtickler said:

Preseason friendlies really bring out the utter bed wetting, gender neutral toilet, just stop oil, Andrew Tate,  Oceangate Submarine people in the fanbase.

Well done for not understanding what preseason is about, stick to playing football manager on your gameboy

That's all i will say on the matter. 

Not wishing to be a part of the gender neutral toilet brigade, and the less said about Just Stop Oil and Andrew Tate the better, but I remember similar posts to yours before last season started. Turns out people’s concerns were quite well founded. Surprising how people who’ve been watching us play for decades and decades, may just be able to spot patterns, trends and familiarities emerging. 
 

That being said, I don’t think the season is a write off based on these two games, that would be silly.
 

That’s all I can think of to contribute to the matter. 

Edited by niceandfriendly
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Saint86

Saint86

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10 hours ago, Saint Fan CaM said:

I want to believe, I want to like Martins football…but it ain’t happening at the moment.

We've played 2 games with fully cycled line ups in both, and have played some very nice stuff within that... This is like when people were writing Mane off after his first appearance ffs, you've given him no time at all. We still need to address the central defence and attack, but that will come.

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CB Fry

CB Fry

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11 hours ago, Saint Fan CaM said:

I want to believe, I want to like Martins football…but it ain’t happening at the moment.

You obviously don't want to believe, otherwise you wouldn't be making judgements based on a couple of bloody friendlies.

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Charlie Wayman

Charlie Wayman

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Posted (edited)
11 hours ago, Saint Fan CaM said:

I want to like Martins football…but it ain’t happening at the moment.

It isn't and it will take time. Obviously the players are trying to get used to the idea of one touch passing but at the moment it is painfully slow and that surely is obvious to all. Player 1 looks around for colleague in good safe position - passes slowly and carefully - player 2 receives ball - looks around - cogs whirring - passes slowly and carefully to another colleague in a good safe position and so on. One hopes in time it will be an automatic process with players always aware where their colleagues are and the manoeuvres executed at pace. 

To be fair it must be a challenging time for the coaching staff to try to teach this system to players many of whom probably won't be here much longer. So not only is it in part wasted effort but the wannaways and misfits are probably more than a tad half hearted and disinterested in making the whole shebang work anyway. They'll go along with it whilst they are here if only to get their fitness and sharpness levels up to snuff so they are ready to challenge at their new clubs.

As soon as possible Martin must decide who he wants to stay and who will have to go and importantly who will leave for PL clubs. When he has this information then he can better select teams more representative of the XI that will take the field against The Owls. Ideally he should do this before the Reading game but certainly before the home friendlies at St Mary's. It'll take guts to tell players where they stand especially those that he perceives as having no future here but the nettle must be grasped urgently.

Edited by Charlie Wayman
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Saint_clark

Saint_clark

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Posted (edited)
3 hours ago, Saint86 said:

We've played 2 games with fully cycled line ups in both, and have played some very nice stuff within that... This is like when people were writing Mane off after his first appearance ffs, you've given him no time at all. We still need to address the central defence and attack, but that will come.

I was about to make a point about Kompany taking no time at all to get Burnley going and ask why we can't, for once, hit the ground running. 

However having looked at Burnleys results last season they actually drew 7 of their first 12 games and didn't go top until 14 weeks into the season. 

In short, i've flipped around slightly and reckon we need to be patient and should expect results to properly pick up around mid october. 

 

(They did however only lose three games all season)

Edited by Saint_clark
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Saint Fan CaM

Saint Fan CaM

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6 hours ago, Saint86 said:

We've played 2 games with fully cycled line ups in both, and have played some very nice stuff within that... This is like when people were writing Mane off after his first appearance ffs, you've given him no time at all. We still need to address the central defence and attack, but that will come.

Woah there, Mane taking time to come good is a different proposition entirely from a 1st team operating at even a basic level that looks like it collectively has a scooby how to put sustained pressure on the opposition defence and score goals. Against a 2nd division Turkish side.  Yes you’re right, we damn well DO need to address attack…we’ve needed to address that for 3-4 seasons and clearly it’s still not fixed even with supposedly some of the most prolific Championship strikers in Adams, Armstrong and Tella. We’re still relying on individuals taking on defenders (and running into brick walls) rather than creatively passing to players in space who then have an opportunity to shoot. There’s no running of channels. Wingbacks in advanced positions but largely ignored by their teammates.

Let’s be clear, the concern is NOT about pre-season results…its about passages of play that lead to shots on goal / goals (without which the passing stats will look lovely but we’ll not win many games).  SO FAR I’m not seeing any promise of real attacking skill…just a team going through the same motions as previous pre-seasons - a bloated squad of mediocrity not able to translate the Managers ideas into performances on the pitch. IMO its a valid concern and I hope Martin and his coaching team have got answers to the persistent goal drought that’s plagued the club for so long (with the strange exception of the last Liverpool game - whatever happened there?!).

 

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CSA96

CSA96

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We've not managed to put the likes of Sulemana, Tella, Alcaraz, Adams all on the pitch together for a sustained time yet (as mentioned by Saint86 we've just cycled through random combos like Djenepo, Aribo, Amo-Ameyaw) so I'm not too concerned.

But yes we definitely do need better goalscoring options and we also need another midfielder who is minded to look for the forward pass (like Charly is).

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Saint Fan CaM

Saint Fan CaM

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9 hours ago, manji said:

Two games for goodness sake. It’s obvious we will sign more players.

You may well be right. But among the currently highly bloated squad, what position(s) do you think will be replaced? If we purchase new players they MUST be better than what we have already to improve performances, which means there will be a need to off-load players but who might that be? My gut feeling is that we’ll start the campaign with the forward players we have now…after all we’ve got Adams, Armstrong and Tella who have all proven themselves to be prolific in the Championship, plus Mara, Alcarez and Sulemana.

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edprice1984

edprice1984

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I have seen Saints get hammered in pre-season and win comfortably in pre-season. You do get some cues and clues into how a season might go, but honestly after two games I really wouldn't be too concerned. We all know we need new CBs and preferably have someone who stick it in the back of the net. 

Half the battle this season is that we don't necessarily know if three or four of our best players will be here in two weeks time. The market does seem particularly quiet but all it takes is one or two players to move and the whole carousel begins. 

 

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Saint Fan CaM

Saint Fan CaM

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1 hour ago, edprice1984 said:

I have seen Saints get hammered in pre-season and win comfortably in pre-season. You do get some cues and clues into how a season might go, but honestly after two games I really wouldn't be too concerned. We all know we need new CBs and preferably have someone who stick it in the back of the net. 

Half the battle this season is that we don't necessarily know if three or four of our best players will be here in two weeks time. The market does seem particularly quiet but all it takes is one or two players to move and the whole carousel begins. 

 

I might agree with you, however we’re talking here about a group of players that are not strangers…most of them were together over the last couple of seasons. And if we’re to lose 3-4 of our best players (whoever they are) that will further decrease the overall squad quality further.  Most agree that losing Romeu was a bad move and now we’re faced with Lavia moving on to be replaced with Charles - that’s progressive weakening of the team and it’s happened too many times.

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hypochondriac

hypochondriac

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2 minutes ago, Saint Fan CaM said:

I might agree with you, however we’re talking here about a group of players that are not strangers…most of them were together over the last couple of seasons. And if we’re to lose 3-4 of our best players (whoever they are) that will further decrease the overall squad quality further.  Most agree that losing Romeu was a bad move and now we’re faced with Lavia moving on to be replaced with Charles - that’s progressive weakening of the team and it’s happened too many times.

That's called relegation. We have little choice in the matter. 

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Saint Fan CaM

Saint Fan CaM

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Posted
8 minutes ago, hypochondriac said:

That's called relegation. We have little choice in the matter. 

Yes that’s true and even more profound given we were gash last season, even against lower league opposition. To have a chance of promotion this coming season the old Prem squad actually needs to be improved IMO. I don’t predict a step change coming from these players due to Martin’s appointment, so the one glimmer of hope is that we bring in a really dominating and experienced striker which the club does have a choice in.

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Dman

Dman

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20 hours ago, Ribtickler said:

Preseason friendlies really bring out the utter bed wetting, gender neutral toilet, just stop oil, Andrew Tate,  Oceangate Submarine people in the fanbase.

Well done for not understanding what preseason is about, stick to playing football manager on your gameboy

That's all i will say on the matter. 

In fairness we're seeing the exact same shite as last season. The same mistakes, the same slow ponderous sidewards passing, the same lack of any threat in the final 3rd. 

That being said, its the exact same group of players throwing in the same shite performances. 

We need a clear out and re-build and we need it quick. Its disappointing we're 3 weeks away and there is still so much unknown about who we'll have playing for us next season. 

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hypochondriac

hypochondriac

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Posted
3 minutes ago, Saint Fan CaM said:

Yes that’s true and even more profound given we were gash last season, even against lower league opposition. To have a chance of promotion this coming season the old Prem squad actually needs to be improved IMO. I don’t predict a step change coming from these players due to Martin’s appointment, so the one glimmer of hope is that we bring in a really dominating and experienced striker which the club does have a choice in.

Yes we do need improvements to the overall squad but I don't see how you can criticise the club for failing to improve on someone like Lavia or JWP. These are top quality prem players and anyone who would be an improvement on them isn't going to come to saints. What we should instead focus on is getting a team together who can be greater overall than the sum of their parts with some players who know how to perform in this league and with every player clear what their role is. 

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Saint Fan CaM

Saint Fan CaM

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2 minutes ago, hypochondriac said:

Yes we do need improvements to the overall squad but I don't see how you can criticise the club for failing to improve on someone like Lavia or JWP. These are top quality prem players and anyone who would be an improvement on them isn't going to come to saints. What we should instead focus on is getting a team together who can be greater overall than the sum of their parts with some players who know how to perform in this league and with every player clear what their role is. 

Agree that overall squad quality improvement is essential, however I don’t think Lavia or JWP could be classed as top quality Prem players at this time. Lavia COULD be as his performances have shown much promise, but he’s not had the opportunity to shine in a top team yet. JWP was a poor version of an average midfielder last season in my view and I’m not sure he’ll be any better in the Championship, although he is better option than Smallbone.

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Stripey McStripe Shirt

Stripey McStripe Shirt

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Posted
18 hours ago, SaintNewForest said:

 

But, the morons on Twitter were saying how he's refusing to train and is forcing through a move ... how can this be he's now back in training?

It's almost as if an injury has cleared up ... 

Can't say I've been keeping up with the "rumours" much this summer. But if that rumour is doing the rounds, I don't think that 4 second video goes anyway to disproving anything.

For the record, I like Stu and have doubts that he's the type of player/person that would go on strike and refuse to train.

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