The Championship Thread - 2023/24

[CB Fry]

11 hours ago, coalman said:

There's only 20 days left until our first fixture. How close are we to having an idea of our starting eleven for that match? Given the number of potential exits hanging over us it's starting to be a bit concerning that we'll still be in flux for the first month of the season (as the window SLAMS shut on the 1st September.

If only we'd have announced Russell Martin two weeks earlier,  the whole squad could have been done and dusted and all confirmed by now.

[OnceaSaintalwaysaSaint]

14 minutes ago, CB Fry said:

If only we'd have announced Russell Martin two weeks earlier,  the whole squad could have been done and dusted and all confirmed by now.

Problem is, we don't know who's going and who's staying so the squad can't be sorted. I'm just hoping Alcaraz stops putting in too many eye-catching performances before the transfer window closes. 

[coalman]

10 hours ago, CB Fry said:

If only we'd have announced Russell Martin two weeks earlier,  the whole squad could have been done and dusted and all confirmed by now.

I wish that were true but clubs have always tried to push prices down by talking up moves early in the window whilst talking down the price in the press. And we have a lot of potential exits this summer.

[Saint Garrett]

Will be fascinating to see the team come Sheff Weds match.

 

Something like:

Bazunu

Tino Bednarek Stephens Manning

JWP Charles Alcaraz

Tella Adams Sulemena.

 

Whats the chances?! 🤪

[Saint Fan CaM]

16 minutes ago, Saint Garrett said:

Will be fascinating to see the team come Sheff Weds match.

 

Something like:

Bazunu

Tino Bednarek Stephens Manning

JWP Charles Alcaraz

Tella Adams Sulemena.

 

Whats the chances?! 🤪

I agree, it will be fascinating. Not sure about Stephens - has he ever featured as left sided CB? I doubt Alcarez will play deep in a DM three and I’m not sure they’ll put Charles straight in anyway? Will Sulemena get enough minutes to claim a starting place? Thinking maybe it’s more like…

Baz

Tino  Bednarek Salisu Manning

JWP  Smallbone

Tella  Alcarez  Mara

 Adams

Edited 17 July, 2023 by Saint Fan CaM

[suewhistle]

It'll be interesting surely, but I'd hate to have to put forward my own ideas as really I haven't a clue.

I hope Martin has a better idea on who is going and that there won't be any surprises. I appreciate that we are waiting for offers to become more realistic but, informed guessing aside (Lavia!) we don't know who is going.

 

[SaintsFan86]

3 hours ago, Saint Garrett said:

Will be fascinating to see the team come Sheff Weds match.

 

Something like:

Bazunu

Tino Bednarek Stephens Manning

JWP Charles Alcaraz

Tella Adams Sulemena.

 

Whats the chances?! 🤪

Going off the game against Goetzepe and his comments about how he likes a striker to drop I wonder if he'll opt to start two strikers.

Baz;

Tino, bednarek, Stephens, Manning;

JWP;

Alcaraz, Arma;

Tella, Adams, Sulemana.

[Saint Fan CaM]

Saw an interesting table of squad value on FB. Had Saints top with a squad value of circa £370m and Sheffield Wednesday with a squad value of circa £8m!!!  I somehow doubt those values will be reflected in the match result at the end of day one of the season.

[SambaMaverick]

2 hours ago, SaintsFan86 said:

Going off the game against Goetzepe and his comments about how he likes a striker to drop I wonder if he'll opt to start two strikers.

Baz;

Tino, bednarek, Stephens, Manning;

JWP;

Alcaraz, Arma;

Tella, Adams, Sulemana.

Watching Armstrong in CM would violate the Geneva Convention.

[SaintsFan86]

2 minutes ago, SambaMaverick said:

Watching Armstrong in CM would violate the Geneva Convention.

Don't think of it as midfield think of it as around the 10 spot. The WBs coming into midfield allows us to play him there centrally with Charly just slightly behind linking the play up.

[coalman]

2 hours ago, Saint Fan CaM said:

Saw an interesting table of squad value on FB. Had Saints top with a squad value of circa £370m and Sheffield Wednesday with a squad value of circa £8m!!!  I somehow doubt those values will be reflected in the match result at the end of day one of the season.

Err, how? I bet it won't be 370m by kick off.

[SambaMaverick]

53 minutes ago, SaintsFan86 said:

Don't think of it as midfield think of it as around the 10 spot. The WBs coming into midfield allows us to play him there centrally with Charly just slightly behind linking the play up.

I don't see it one bit. He can't trap the ball, he can't pass, and he can't advance the ball without kicking it a mile ahead of him. 

[Saint Matty 76]

Just now, SambaMaverick said:

I don't see it one bit. He can't trap the ball, he can't pass, and he can't advance the ball without kicking it a mile ahead of him. 

All incredibly accurate. He tried it yesterday and we were incredibly ineffective, until an actual attacking midfielder (Charly) came on and we immediately looked 10x better. 

[Smirking_Saint]

8 hours ago, Saint Garrett said:

Will be fascinating to see the team come Sheff Weds match.

 

Something like:

Bazunu

Tino Bednarek Stephens Manning

JWP Charles Alcaraz

Tella Adams Sulemena.

 

Whats the chances?! 🤪

I fucking hope we don’t start with Stephens in a possession based system

[Smirking_Saint]

2 hours ago, SaintsFan86 said:

Don't think of it as midfield think of it as around the 10 spot. The WBs coming into midfield allows us to play him there centrally with Charly just slightly behind linking the play up.

I don’t think he plays that way really, it feels more like he wants width from his FBs and the two supporting midfielders are more of an 8 with the 6 dropping into a back 3

The two ‘wingers’ will probably operate as inside forwards ‘although’ he did have tino pushing inside a bit against Goztepe, I just don’t see that being his MO come Sheff Wed

[SaintsFan86]

4 minutes ago, Smirking_Saint said:

I don’t think he plays that way really, it feels more like he wants width from his FBs and the two supporting midfielders are more of an 8 with the 6 dropping into a back 3

The two ‘wingers’ will probably operate as inside forwards ‘although’ he did have tino pushing inside a bit against Goztepe, I just don’t see that being his MO come Sheff Wed

Definately going to be interesting watching the rest of the games., Seeing the shape evolve.

It's probably more difficult to play how he wants a little whilst he doesn't really have a fit LB until we see Manning in the side.

[FarehamSaintJames]

8 hours ago, Saint Garrett said:

Will be fascinating to see the team come Sheff Weds match.

 

Something like:

Bazunu

Tino Bednarek Stephens Manning

JWP Charles Alcaraz

Tella Adams Sulemena.

 

Whats the chances?! 🤪

Didn’t realise KWP and Lavia had been sold 😁

[Saint Matty 76]

41 minutes ago, Smirking_Saint said:

I fucking hope we don’t start with Stephens in a possession based system

I'm pretty sure he'll be a key player for us this year based on what RM has already said. I also don't think he'd be too bad for this role, there was a time not too long ago that some fans wanted us to try him as a DM (strangely, of course) due to his ability to progress the ball.

I'd be very surprised if our starting back 4 wasn't Livramento - Bednarek - Stephens - Manning for Sheff Weds. Even if there hasn't been any movement on KWP/Perraud/ABK/Salisu at this point, I'd imagine he'd want to start getting reps in for the likely first choice pairings. My somewhat negative guess at the whole thing (with no further additions and the assumption that a few sales go through relatively soon), would be -

Bauznu
Livramento - Bednarek - Stephens - Manning
Charles
Smallbone - Alcaraz
Tella - Mara - AA

Have absolutely no idea what to think about Sulemana's chances of staying, but I'd love him to still be involved.

Edited 17 July, 2023 by Saint Matty 76

[SaintsFan86]

43 minutes ago, Saint Matty 76 said:

I'm pretty sure he'll be a key player for us this year based on what RM has already said. I also don't think he'd be too bad for this role, there was a time not too long ago that some fans wanted us to try him as a DM (strangely, of course) due to his ability to progress the ball.

I'd be very surprised if our starting back 4 wasn't Livramento - Bednarek - Stephens - Manning for Sheff Weds. Even if there hasn't been any movement on KWP/Perraud/ABK/Salisu at this point, I'd imagine he'd want to start getting reps in for the likely first choice pairings. My somewhat negative guess at the whole thing (with no further additions and the assumption that a few sales go through relatively soon), would be -

Bauznu
Livramento - Bednarek - Stephens - Manning
Charles
Smallbone - Alcaraz
Tella - Mara - AA

Have absolutely no idea what to think about Sulemana's chances of staying, but I'd love him to still be involved.

God I hope Smallbone isn't in midfield.

[hypochondriac]

56 minutes ago, SaintsFan86 said:

God I hope Smallbone isn't in midfield.

I'd definitely have Smallbone in the squad as backup. It's a long season. 

[SaintsFan86]

2 minutes ago, hypochondriac said:

I'd definitely have Smallbone in the squad as backup. It's a long season. 

Back up is okay.

[Smirking_Saint]

3 hours ago, Saint Matty 76 said:

I'm pretty sure he'll be a key player for us this year based on what RM has already said. I also don't think he'd be too bad for this role, there was a time not too long ago that some fans wanted us to try him as a DM (strangely, of course) due to his ability to progress the ball.

I'd be very surprised if our starting back 4 wasn't Livramento - Bednarek - Stephens - Manning for Sheff Weds. Even if there hasn't been any movement on KWP/Perraud/ABK/Salisu at this point, I'd imagine he'd want to start getting reps in for the likely first choice pairings. My somewhat negative guess at the whole thing (with no further additions and the assumption that a few sales go through relatively soon), would be -

Bauznu
Livramento - Bednarek - Stephens - Manning
Charles
Smallbone - Alcaraz
Tella - Mara - AA

Have absolutely no idea what to think about Sulemana's chances of staying, but I'd love him to still be involved.

Yeah I was never sure about that tbh, its a personal thing but Stephens has always been a reactive only CB, he just doesn’t show any signs of a modern day proactive CB for me

I also always thought he was a bit shaky under pressure and so far has shown that in both friendlies

Bednarek looks ok, I actually think with the right partner he could have a very good season but Id rather that not be Stephens

[Smirking_Saint]

1 hour ago, SaintsFan86 said:

Back up is okay.

He’ll play a part I think, he’s a tidy player in possession he just doesn’t really do much

[saintant]

1 hour ago, Smirking_Saint said:

He’ll play a part I think, he’s a tidy player in possession he just doesn’t really do much

We are awash with players who don't really do much. We need a few who can influence games.

[Saint Fan CaM]

Smallbone is one of those players I would look to move on…he’s not shown enough in either a DM role or an AM role and for me is just a very average ‘Jack of all trades’. He certainly can’t shoot.

Stephens is another player who has some ability but ultimately is not at a standard required for a solid dependable CB. Regardless, what Martin needs to do is decide soon who his main CB pairing is so that experience and an understanding can be built up as his system starts to embed. It’s not a position that works well with tinkering IMO.

[SotonianWill]

8 hours ago, Saint Fan CaM said:

Smallbone is one of those players I would look to move on…he’s not shown enough in either a DM role or an AM role and for me is just a very average ‘Jack of all trades’. He certainly can’t shoot.

 

I think he wouldn’t be terrible to keep as a backup. At least he looks suited to the style of football we are trying, he dosent do much other than quick passing but he’s doing what the supposed style demands of him. 

[Saint Fan CaM]

1 hour ago, SotonianWill said:

I think he wouldn’t be terrible to keep as a backup. At least he looks suited to the style of football we are trying, he dosent do much other than quick passing but he’s doing what the supposed style demands of him. 

With Diallo gone and Lavia almost certainly on the way, who do you think is going to play next to JWP (assuming he stays)? OK they may risk Charles, but is he too young/inexperienced? It wouldn’t surprise me to see Smallbone starting games and utilising that level of player will put paid to a promotion push IMO.

[SaintsFan86]

8 minutes ago, Saint Fan CaM said:

With Diallo gone and Lavia almost certainly on the way, who do you think is going to play next to JWP (assuming he stays)? OK they may risk Charles, but is he too young/inexperienced? It wouldn’t surprise me to see Smallbone starting games and utilising that level of player will put paid to a promotion push IMO.

If we keep JWP I hope the club do what they can to bring in Flynn Downes.

[Saint Fan CaM]

2 minutes ago, SaintsFan86 said:

If we keep JWP I hope the club do what they can to bring in Flynn Downes.

That would be a good idea to bolster the midfield backbone. Need a fighter or two in amongst the ‘son in laws’.

[SaintsFan86]

4 minutes ago, Saint Fan CaM said:

That would be a good idea to bolster the midfield backbone. Need a fighter or two in amongst the ‘son in laws’.

I think if we lose JWP Grimes would be fantastic, But for me A experienced head at this level with one eye on promotion will lead me to believe longer term Downes is best value.

Also from what I've seen, Downes looks really good as a 6, press resistant too, and knows RMs system so thr transition shouldn't take aslong. No brainer. But we wait until Spam have there midfield options.

[Saint86]

3 hours ago, Saint Fan CaM said:

With Diallo gone and Lavia almost certainly on the way, who do you think is going to play next to JWP (assuming he stays)? OK they may risk Charles, but is he too young/inexperienced? It wouldn’t surprise me to see Smallbone starting games and utilising that level of player will put paid to a promotion push IMO.

Surely we haven't just spent nearly £15M on charles if we don't consider him ready to play regularly this season?! Alongside JWP will be charles and smallbone i'd imagine. Doyle will also get minutes in the 8 role. Possible we may see one more addition there i guess. The likes of Carlos, Stu, Sulemana, Tella, Edozie, A-A (Sam Amo-Ameyaw) will play further forward.

Edited 18 July, 2023 by Saint86

[Saint Fan CaM]

1 hour ago, Saint86 said:

Surely we haven't just spent nearly £15M on charles if we don't consider him ready to play regularly this season?! Alongside JWP will be charles and smallbone i'd imagine. Doyle will also get minutes in the 8 role. Possible we may see one more addition there i guess. The likes of Carlos, Stu, Sulemana, Tella, Edozie, A-A (Sam Amo-Ameyaw) will play further forward.

Well you might imagine a £15m player would be a regular starter, but that’s not always the case. What about Larios, Edozie, Mara, Sulemana…none of them have featured consistently?  Who knows, due to our asking price Lavia may end up staying another year (lovely but highly doubtful)!

[Mr Nimbus]

5 hours ago, Saint Fan CaM said:

With Diallo gone and Lavia almost certainly on the way, who do you think is going to play next to JWP (assuming he stays)? OK they may risk Charles, but is he too young/inexperienced? It wouldn’t surprise me to see Smallbone starting games and utilising that level of player will put paid to a promotion push IMO.

I'd be surprised if Charles wasn't playing most games.

[goodymatt]

Think our model Is to bring these high performing academy players and be their platform. Shea Charles at £15m (with add ons included) won’t be sitting on our bench every week. Wilcox knows his ability and it seems he’s the Lavia replacement. Hopefully he’s more Tino/Lavia than Larios/Edozie/Bazunu.

Playing these players regularly is what attracts them here in the first place over competitors, Leicester we’re interested in Charles too for example.

Edited 18 July, 2023 by goodymatt

[SaintsFan86]

5 minutes ago, goodymatt said:

Think our model Is to bring these high performing academy players and be their platform. Shea Charles at £15m with add ons won’t be sitting on our bench every week. Wilcox knows his ability and it seems he’s the Lavia replacement. Hopefully he’s more Tino/Lavia than Larios/Edozie/Bazunu.

Playing these players regularly is what attracts them here in the first place over competitors, Leicester we’re interested in Charles too for example.

It's 10.5, Up to 15.

[goodymatt]

16 minutes ago, SaintsFan86 said:

It's 10.5, Up to 15.

I worded that poorly, meant £15m including the add ons. It’s a big fee for a championship signing. Can’t see him not being a starter.

Edited 18 July, 2023 by goodymatt

[Convict Colony]

King Charles will be ruling the championship this season, hope to see him and manning v reading on saturday

[SambaMaverick]

Watford apparently given a transfer ban

[Smirking_Saint]

I feel this is a great signing in the Championship 

[Turkish]

Who else in buzzing to see us use inverted fullbacks this season?

 

Edited 23 July, 2023 by Turkish

[egg]

1 hour ago, Turkish said:

Who else in buzzing to see us use inverted fullbacks this season?

 

Nope. Full backs who offer an attacking threat when overlapping completely lose their attacking threat when they drift Infield 20 metres and sit in front of the CB's and try to become playmakers. It's a tactic I don't get. 

[egg]

On 21/07/2023 at 20:12, Smirking_Saint said:

I feel this is a great signing in the Championship 

Someone told is half an hour that they were skint though!

Good signing. They're signing some good ones. That Doyle kid from city looks very good - a city youngster who's actually played lots of men's football. 

[Smirking_Saint]

22 minutes ago, egg said:

Someone told is half an hour that they were skint though!

Good signing. They're signing some good ones. That Doyle kid from city looks very good - a city youngster who's actually played lots of men's football. 

I mean.. I can’t be arsed to get embroiled in any childish ping pong, especially over 2 threads, but they’ve sold Barnes and brought in a worse player for cheaper, they’ll still need a side come the opening day

[Fabrice29]

21 minutes ago, egg said:

Nope. Full backs who offer an attacking threat when overlapping completely lose their attacking threat when they drift Infield 20 metres and sit in front of the CB's and try to become playmakers. It's a tactic I don't get. 

It's designed to create overloads and passing lanes centrally. Also to give protection on counter attacks whilst letting more attack minded midfielders push higher up. Doesn't necessarily mean they won't be attacking threats themselves and doesn't necessarily mean they will always sit in front of CB's, it's evident from the friendlies that players are not contained to set positions. See Mannings statistics from last season for example and Russel Martin saying himself his favourite goal at Swansea was one full back crossing for another. 

[coalman]

30 minutes ago, egg said:

Nope. Full backs who offer an attacking threat when overlapping completely lose their attacking threat when they drift Infield 20 metres and sit in front of the CB's and try to become playmakers. It's a tactic I don't get. 

Except last season we almost never passed to the full back bombing forwards on the overlap leaving us repeatedly exposed when the "attacking" midfielder cut infield and lost the ball.

[The Cat]

Leicester v Spurs friendly in Bangkok cancelled because of the weather. 

[Smirking_Saint]

5 minutes ago, Fabrice29 said:

It's designed to create overloads and passing lanes centrally. Also to give protection on counter attacks whilst letting more attack minded midfielders push higher up. Doesn't necessarily mean they won't be attacking threats themselves and doesn't necessarily mean they will always sit in front of CB's, it's evident from the friendlies that players are not contained to set positions. See Mannings statistics from last season for example and Russel Martin saying himself his favourite goal at Swansea was one full back crossing for another. 

Yeah it looks like we move from a 433 into a 3223 on the transition, with the no.6 dropping into the back ‘3’ both FBs pushing into midfield, the two no.8s pushing up as No.10s and then the standard front 3

It just provides an awful lot of passing options and pressure on the ball when we lose it… I like it, but we need to be very careful of fast breaks in play and counters

Pretty telling that he’s brought Manning who played a lot at CM and is looking at KWP and Tino to push inside rather than outside… it unfortunately negates their pace but I guess when you’re up against an opponent that sits deep pace is largely redundant 

[Lighthouse]

3 minutes ago, The Cat said:

Leicester v Spurs friendly in Bangkok cancelled because of the weather. 

Last time Leicester went out there they ended up racial abusing a Thai hooker and winning the Premier League, so fingers crossed we don't get a repeat next year.

[egg]

51 minutes ago, Fabrice29 said:

It's designed to create overloads and passing lanes centrally. Also to give protection on counter attacks whilst letting more attack minded midfielders push higher up. Doesn't necessarily mean they won't be attacking threats themselves and doesn't necessarily mean they will always sit in front of CB's, it's evident from the friendlies that players are not contained to set positions. See Mannings statistics from last season for example and Russel Martin saying himself his favourite goal at Swansea was one full back crossing for another. 

If the FB's get high up the pitch and can make a difference,  then great. If they're mostly drifting in field and sitting it'll only benefit us if it frees up midfielders to join the attack if those midfielders can offer more as an attacking force than they can. It's interesting for sure, and my only concern is losing the attacking threat that attacking FB's bring. 

[Saint_clark]

1 hour ago, egg said:

Nope. Full backs who offer an attacking threat when overlapping completely lose their attacking threat when they drift Infield 20 metres and sit in front of the CB's and try to become playmakers. It's a tactic I don't get. 

 I agree, not really a fan of it, but the idea isn't for the fullbacks to be an attacking threat it's to allow the midfielders to bomb forward more often. I think it's a tactic that can only work if you outclass your opponent as it leaves the flanks exposed on the counter attack, but we'll see.