Russell Martin

[ErwinK1961]

2 hours ago, saintant said:

If this is the case then why don't we play similar to yesterday which was chalk and cheese to practically every other game so far? And I don't buy into this idea that it takes time to learn because we did nothing yesterday that needs any great skill set change - it was front front foot positive football with players finding pockets of space, passing and moving, a mix of some longer balls, passing with pace on the ball and players recognising that sometimes they need to drop off to receive the ball. There was a lot we saw yesterday that has largely been missing and far less of the crab football so long may it continue.

I don’t know, that’s probably something to ask the players and RM, perhaps it’s a confidence thing? Would also say the last three home games have been a vast improvement in terms positive play, blew Leeds away, should have blown Rotherham away (poor finishing and great goalkeeping) and blew Brum away yesterday. 

I just don’t agree with the notion that some seem to have (not saying you), that RM would rather play slow crap crab football and boost possession stats then play positive forward thinking football and score goals - and that the only times we do that is nothing to do with RM.

Agree with you, long may the progression continue.

[notnowcato]

4 hours ago, Harry_SFC said:

To be fair Birmingham's set up was perfect for what we wanted to do. It was neither here nor there. They made it very easy for us.

100%

[Badger]

4 hours ago, gio1saints said:

I personally feel he will not be at Saints longer than 2/3 years. It would not surprise me to see him recruited to an EPL team - even and especially a team like Brighton if Zerbi gets nicked by Barca or RM ( or Liverpool?) And, looking ahead, he’s got Scotland National team manager to come imo. 
 

The fact that the RussellMartin foundation is based in Brighton as is his family shows the close regional affinity and that transfer would not surprise me in the slightest. Just hope he gets us up sustainably first! 

Interesting comment and thought, and that’s if he’s successful with us ie promotion and keeping us up. Possibly a tall order. If we don’t make it this year, he’ll probably start next season on thinner ice.
 

As for Brighton, that seems quite a stretch at the moment, but could change, especially if their fortunes drop to being lower table again.  This would probably indicate a successful outcome though as at least (you’d imagine) he’d have achieved the objectives here first. 

[saintant]

4 hours ago, Saint_clark said:

During the goal? I don't see a foul there. KWP is off balance and the player runs past him.

No, wrong incident so agree, no foul there. I'm talking about just before when their guy scissor tackled KWP and it was a blatant foul not given by the ref.

[Dark Munster]

5 hours ago, LuckyNumber7 said:

Interesting that you say Puel was a decent manager, when our football under him was far more tedious and dull than it is now.

Puel got us to a final playing exciting football on the way, beating PL teams all the way (including Liverpool twice) and very unlucky to lose the final. He took us to 8th in the PL despite losing three key players at the beginning of the season and VVD and Fonte later due to injury and being sold. Plus he was competing against PL teams each week, not Championship dross. If he’d had Koeman’s squad with Mane, Pelle, big Vic we wouldn’t have had to play the “ turgid” football he was accused of which was necessary to grind out results being without those players and having Yoshi and Stephens as our CBs. I’d say that makes him a decent manager. 
If we had one of the crap Championship squads and were where are now in the league I’d say RM is doing a great job, just like the Ipswich manager certainly is. It’s quite simple, with the squad we’ve got we should be doing better. 

[Dark Munster]

7 hours ago, ErwinK1961 said:

Yeah, I’m sure he’s ‘temporarily adjusted his style’ because he thinks fans don’t like him 🙄

Or, maybe this is how he wants the players to play every week.

If the players aren’t doing what he wants then he’s failing as a manager. The players are good enough (at this level), they’ve proven that, so it’s no excuse crying “they aren’t doing what I want them to do.”

[John B]

8 minutes ago, Dark Munster said:

Puel got us to a final playing exciting football on the way, beating PL teams all the way (including Liverpool twice) and very unlucky to lose the final. He took us to 8th in the PL despite losing three key players at the beginning of the season and VVD and Fonte later due to injury and being sold. Plus he was competing against PL teams each week, not Championship dross. If he’d had Koeman’s squad with Mane, Pelle, big Vic we wouldn’t have had to play the “ turgid” football he was accused of which was necessary to grind out results being without those players and having Yoshi and Stephens as our CBs. I’d say that makes him a decent manager. 
If we had one of the crap Championship squads and were where are now in the league I’d say RM is doing a great job, just like the Ipswich manager certainly is. It’s quite simple, with the squad we’ve got we should be doing better. 

We are doing better than we were doing earlier in the season could be something to do with he team becoming familiar with each other and the tactics

[OnceaSaintalwaysaSaint]

22 hours ago, Miltonaggro said:

Good summary, my overview too. Starting to see some genuine understanding in terms of partnerships (eg Bednarek and THB) and also what looks like team spirit, Ryan Fraser’s cameos epitomise this. If we keep this momentum until Stewart is fit things could get interesting. I also think if we are well positioned come December we might get some reinforcement in the January window.  Ups and downs but much more fun than the shite we endured in the Prem last year! 

Like you and Turkish have said, we're definitely improving. That's not entirely down to RM. There's understanding all over the pitch, there's confidence in keeping a lead and there's that eagerness to find a winner/equaliser.

RM's style, which initially seemed to be interpreted as building from the back and then when nothing was on, pass sideways or backwards, has morphed. He seems to have twigged we have the fastest wingers in the League and they're being used to good effect. With more speed, there's also more intent and looking for the through ball. And his subs make an impact.

[Saint Gifford]

Nathan Jones apparently on Bristol City shortlist for their vacant position. 

[Give it to Ron]

7 hours ago, Saint Gifford said:

Nathan Jones apparently on Bristol City shortlist for their vacant position. 

Interesting stat just read only Robins at Coventry has been in the managers job for over a year in Championship now.

[OnceaSaintalwaysaSaint]

49 minutes ago, Give it to Ron said:

Interesting stat just read only Robins at Coventry has been in the managers job for over a year in Championship now.

And can't see RM changing that stat. His ego suggests he is always looking for a bigger and better club so if we do well, he'll be off and if we don't get promoted he will probably also be out.

[Badger]

2 hours ago, OnceaSaintalwaysaSaint said:

And can't see RM changing that stat. His ego suggests he is always looking for a bigger and better club so if we do well, he'll be off and if we don't get promoted he will probably also be out.

I don't see that in his approach and the way he comes across, but lets be honest, that would be no different from most managers we've had over the last 30 years, or will have again. 

[notnowcato]

2 hours ago, OnceaSaintalwaysaSaint said:

And can't see RM changing that stat. His ego suggests he is always looking for a bigger and better club so if we do well, he'll be off and if we don't get promoted he will probably also be out.

That's life as a small fish in a big pond, see Poch and Koeman for perfect examples.

What could be better for us than RM doing so well that bigger clubs want him?

[Dman]

4 minutes ago, notnowcato said:

That's life as a small fish in a big pond, see Poch and Koeman for perfect examples.

What could be better for us than RM doing so well that bigger clubs want him?

Or we could waste 2 seasons with him, lingering around mid-table and then a slightly bigger club poach him.. Much like what happened at Swansea. 

[Miltonaggro]

2 hours ago, OnceaSaintalwaysaSaint said:

And can't see RM changing that stat. His ego suggests he is always looking for a bigger and better club so if we do well, he'll be off and if we don't get promoted he will probably also be out.

Don't see that in his character or CV at all to be honest, and currently we should perhaps cross that bridge when we come to it. J M Wilcox has stated that his ambition is for Saints to consolidate in the top ten of the Premier League and currently he's backing Martin to do it.  Should Russ get us there and wants to swap us for Real Madrid, then fair play, we probably get to relive the Graham Potter fetish.

[Wade Garrett]

Can’t knock him for the last half a dozen games really.  Apart from the triple subs v Rotherham he’s done ok.  I was one of his fiercest critics early doors.  We still occasionally slip into propaganda football, mostly in the first 20 minutes of the second half of any game.  I would like to think this frustrates the manager as much as it does me.

Edited 30 October, 2023 by Wade Garrett

[CB Fry]

3 hours ago, OnceaSaintalwaysaSaint said:

And can't see RM changing that stat. His ego suggests he is always looking for a bigger and better club so if we do well, he'll be off and if we don't get promoted he will probably also be out.

I don't know why you are pretending that the approach/mentality/ambition of every football manager on the planet is some unique thing attributable to Russell Martin and/or Southampton.

Maresca and Kompany aren't at Leicester/Burnley because they love the city or the club, you know.

[Kermitzasaint]

On 29/10/2023 at 15:52, ErwinK1961 said:

Yeah, I’m sure he’s ‘temporarily adjusted his style’ because he thinks fans don’t like him 🙄

Or, maybe this is how he wants the players to play every week.

So why does he tend to play slow ponderous possession based football most of the time ( with little success) ? Also at his previous two clubs. 

Its interesting that SR also did a forum explaining his 'style' and Saints media has been pushing his agenda. 

 

But you just ignore all that 😅

[Lord Duckhunter]

Good day for him Saturday (apart from the Noddyness at the end). Imposed our style on them, his substitutions were excellent & it was a pretty easy 3 points apart from about 10 mins after they scored. They were pony, but you can only beat who you’re playing on the day.
 

Still don’t particularly like the bloke or the way he talks down to the supporters, we just don’t understand this complicated structure. His excuses also grate a bit, and don’t get me started on his Lego head. But, if he gets us up he’ll deserve a lot of credit. Personally, I think we’ll get fucking dicked week in week out if we do go up and play like this. But let’s get there first and hopefully he then will jump ship to a bigger club. 

[Tom & Gerry]

1 hour ago, Kermitzasaint said:

So why does he tend to play slow ponderous possession based football most of the time ( with little success) ? Also at his previous two clubs. 

Its interesting that SR also did a forum explaining his 'style' and Saints media has been pushing his agenda. 

 

But you just ignore all that 😅

I think his reputation has gone before him. To my eyes we play less crab like football as you call it than some previous regimes especially since he actually had a full week of training with all his new players, since when we haven't lost. I see our much maligned goalkeeper getting rid of the ball quickly and generally distributing the ball well. I see players like Bednerek passing the ball forward and I see exciting wingers taking on defenders and putting in crosses. Of course when teams put 10 men behind the ball it can be a struggle to break them down and you get some slow play, but that happens with all teams. As for possession football, I much prefer it when we have the ball than the opposition.  Momentum in football counts for a lot, look at Ipswich. Saints were on long downward trajectory with hardly a home win in years and were a long way last. It takes time to turn that round whatever the club said about automatic promotion.  We are doing much better than I expected.

[Convict Colony]

not being funny but i watched city for a bit yesterday and from goalie to midfielders it was like watching the grown up style of our play just faster and more quality.

Think i remember reading a pep quote that this style was meant to move them 3/4's of the way up the pitch and that last 1/4 was down to the players.

[Miltonaggro]

4 hours ago, CB Fry said:

I don't know why you are pretending that the approach/mentality/ambition of every football manager on the planet is some unique thing attributable to Russell Martin and/or Southampton.

Maresca and Kompany aren't at Leicester/Burnley because they love the city or the club, you know.

If they did, they'd need sectioning! Natan el Jones territory.

[jamesfp1]

Weird that he is so divisive. I've liked him since his first presser and even through the run of losses I could see what he is trying to do. We look good passing it about and are scoring goals. I'll take that over floating around at the bottom of the prem with boring goalless football.

[AlexLaw76]

12 minutes ago, jamesfp1 said:

Weird that he is so divisive. I've liked him since his first presser and even through the run of losses I could see what he is trying to do. We look good passing it about and are scoring goals. I'll take that over floating around at the bottom of the prem with boring goalless football.

what about floating around the bottom half of the championship?

[ErwinK1961]

3 hours ago, Kermitzasaint said:

So why does he tend to play slow ponderous possession based football most of the time ( with little success) ? Also at his previous two clubs. 

Its interesting that SR also did a forum explaining his 'style' and Saints media has been pushing his agenda. 

 

But you just ignore all that 😅

And you can keep believing that he’s changed his whole philosophy (which he hasn’t done, btw) because he’s worried the fans don’t like him. 👍

Must be hard for you to think rationally to be fair with someones arm up your arse all day.

[Lord Duckhunter]

26 minutes ago, jamesfp1 said:

Weird that he is so divisive. I've liked him since his first presser and even through the run of losses I could see what he is trying to do. We look good passing it about and are scoring goals. 

Strange isn’t it? 
 

The last time we were in this league we passed it around scored a lot of goals with a manager who hadn’t really done much in the game. Wonder why he was so popular compared to Lego. Probably because he wasn’t such a condescending Cock. That would be my guess. 

[notnowcato]

 

4 hours ago, Kermitzasaint said:

So why does he tend to play slow ponderous possession based football most of the time ( with little success) ? Also at his previous two clubs. 

 

How can anyone answer the question you pose when it's premise is not reality. 

[Sheaf Saint]

On 29/10/2023 at 09:39, Harry_SFC said:

To be fair Birmingham's set up was perfect for what we wanted to do. It was neither here nor there. They made it very easy for us.

I made this point on the post match thread. Their midfielders spent the whole match trying to advance on our back 4/5 while they were playing it around at the back, which left the necessary space for them to play forward passes into.

Very few other teams this season will be quite so obliging to us, and that's the biggest problem with Russball - it only works well if the opposition are naive enough to allow it to.

[notnowcato]

31 minutes ago, Sheaf Saint said:

Very few other teams this season will be quite so obliging to us, and that's the biggest problem with Russball - it only works well if the opposition are naive enough to allow it to.

W7 D3 L4 maybe suggests otherwise.  

 

[Badger]

1 hour ago, Lord Duckhunter said:

Strange isn’t it? 
 

The last time we were in this league we passed it around scored a lot of goals with a manager who hadn’t really done much in the game. Wonder why he was so popular compared to Lego. Probably because he wasn’t such a condescending Cock. That would be my guess. 

Had also achieved a promotion at Scunthorpe on very limited resources.

[Dark Munster]

8 hours ago, Lord Duckhunter said:

Strange isn’t it? 
 

The last time we were in this league we passed it around scored a lot of goals with a manager who hadn’t really done much in the game. Wonder why he was so popular compared to Lego. Probably because he wasn’t such a condescending Cock. That would be my guess. 

Plus he got us promoted at his first attempt from L1.

Plus he got us automatic promotion to the PL in his first attempt, being in the top 2 for most of the season.

Plus we didn't concede a shit load of goals.

Plus he didn't have his team play tedious propaganda football for more than half the time, nor did he at his previous club.

But apart from that I guess he's exactly the same as RM. Strange he is much more popular with the fans. Must be because he's Spanish. Oh wait ...

[CSA96]

9 hours ago, Lord Duckhunter said:

Strange isn’t it? 
 

The last time we were in this league we passed it around scored a lot of goals with a manager who hadn’t really done much in the game. Wonder why he was so popular compared to Lego. Probably because he wasn’t such a condescending Cock. That would be my guess. 

To be fair, a lot of people at the time found Nigel Adkins pretty condescending, patronising and very much all sunshine and rainbows - and I say that as someone who did, and does, really like Adkins.

[CB Fry]

3 hours ago, CSA96 said:

To be fair, a lot of people at the time found Nigel Adkins pretty condescending, patronising and very much all sunshine and rainbows - and I say that as someone who did, and does, really like Adkins.

I think that is true. Like you, really liked him and still do.

What is definitely true is that his philosophy and motivational quotes would have annoyed a lot of fans if he didn't achieve what he did.

"The man in the glass" stuff would not have been quite so effective if we were bumming around mid table League One.

[david in sweden]

20 hours ago, notnowcato said:

 

 

What could be better for us than RM doing so well that bigger clubs want him?

......the answer to that is that having built a good side , he will want to stay regardless of who might come for him..

[notnowcato]

52 minutes ago, david in sweden said:

......the answer to that is that having built a good side , he will want to stay regardless of who might come for him..

Completely agree with this sentiment but unfortunately it's not what happens.  Koeman left us for fucking basket case Everton, FFS, that didn't work out except for his bank balance. 

IF we are promoted next season and RM has a good season in the EPL and a club competing in Europa League or Conference comes in for him you'd expect him to go

[Fabrice29]

15 hours ago, AlexLaw76 said:

what about floating around the bottom half of the championship?

We’re 4th.

[West end Saints]

Having a disruptive transfer window, and trying to change completely the style and mentality, and signing several players who were unfit due to injury, sickness or lack of preseason, injury to Sulemana etc, how has his start been.... 

After 15 games we have 27 points. 

Last year's three promoted teams had 26, 25 and 24.

The team spirit is the best in years. 

5 wins, 2 draws in last 7.

Those 7

  Including beating Leeds who are above us and in good form. 

  Two clean sheets. 

  Two wins by two goals. 

Players adapted to his possession football. 

Making key effective substitutions. 

Subjective one, but attractive entertaining football.

Style breaking teams down as they struggle to chase the ball. 

A long, long, way to go but clearly, despite what several repetitively said on here, not crap, not out of his depth, not trying to implement a style that won't work. 

 

Overall, a good start and looking promising appointment. 

 

Edited 4 November, 2023 by West end Saints

[Wsaint]

6 minutes ago, West end Saints said:

Having a disruptive transfer window, and trying to change completely the style and mentality, and signing several players who were unfit die to injury, sickness or lack of preseason, injury to Sulemana etc, how has his start been.... 

After 15 games we have 27 points. 

Last year's three promoted teams had 26, 25 and 24.

The team spirit is the best in years. 

5 wins, 2 draws in last 7.

Those 7

  Including beating Leeds who are above us and in good form. 

  Two clean sheets. 

  Two wins by two goals. 

Players adapted to his possession football. 

Making key effective substitutions. 

Subjective one, but attractive entertaining football.

Style breaking teams down as they struggle to chase the ball. 

A long, long, way to go but clearly, despite what several repetitively said on here, not crap, not out of his depth, not trying to implement a style that won't work. 

 

Overall, a good start and looking promising appointment. 

 

But that's all in spite of the manager mate, something something fraud.

 

 

/s

[Suhari]

He may not be as shit as I previously thought.

[Saint_clark]

Still to be convinced this style will consistently get us results, especially against the better teams, that will get us promoted, but he's turning me round.

[woodsaint1]

What about that shitty Russball eh?

[woodsaint1]

2 hours ago, West end Saints said:

Having a disruptive transfer window, and trying to change completely the style and mentality, and signing several players who were unfit due to injury, sickness or lack of preseason, injury to Sulemana etc, how has his start been.... 

After 15 games we have 27 points. 

Last year's three promoted teams had 26, 25 and 24.

The team spirit is the best in years. 

5 wins, 2 draws in last 7.

Those 7

  Including beating Leeds who are above us and in good form. 

  Two clean sheets. 

  Two wins by two goals. 

Players adapted to his possession football. 

Making key effective substitutions. 

Subjective one, but attractive entertaining football.

Style breaking teams down as they struggle to chase the ball. 

A long, long, way to go but clearly, despite what several repetitively said on here, not crap, not out of his depth, not trying to implement a style that won't work. 

 

Overall, a good start and looking promising appointment. 

 

And the Rotherham draw was a freak result. Any other day it could have been 4-0 or 5-0

[trousers]

48 minutes ago, Saint_clark said:

Still to be convinced this style will consistently get us results, especially against the better teams, that will get us promoted, but he's turning me round.

This is where I am. He seems to be capable of learning from his mistakes, which is obviously a good sign.

Edited 4 November, 2023 by trousers

[sfc4prem]

3 minutes ago, trousers said:

This is where I am. He seems to be capable of learning from his mistakes, which is obviously a good sign.

That was my main worry

[CB Fry]

2 hours ago, trousers said:

This is where I am. He seems to be capable of learning from his mistakes, which is obviously a good sign.

Agree, at least we have seen some improvements. Ross Stewart could solve our last big issue, turning possession dominance into score sheet dominance.

Still on track to achieve the absolute bare minimum from the start of the season. We will finish top six.

I don't think we will achieve the consistency required to finish top two.

 

Edited 4 November, 2023 by CB Fry

[Dellyears]

Most pleasing thing is---we have got points with last minute goals four times.
Either we are the flukiest team and luck will run out or the team has high spirit and good times are coming

[trousers]

2 minutes ago, CB Fry said:

Agree, at least we have seen some improvements. Ross Stewart could solve our last big issue, turning possession dominance into score sheet dominance.

Still on track to achieve the absolute bear minimum from the start of the season. We will finish top six.

I don't think we will achieve the consistency required to finish top two.

 

Yep, in a nutshell. If Ross Stewart comes good then we should easily be 'best of the rest'. 

[Sheaf Saint]

11 minutes ago, trousers said:

This is where I am. He seems to be capable of learning from his mistakes, which is obviously a good sign.

This is it for me too. There were times during that dire run where it looked like he would never work out that his tactics were leaving us hopelessly exposed on the counter, but credit to him because he has addressed that and we look much more solid now than we did in September.

[trousers]

3 minutes ago, Sheaf Saint said:

This is it for me too. There were times during that dire run where it looked like he would never work out that his tactics were leaving us hopelessly exposed on the counter, but credit to him because he has addressed that and we look much more solid now than we did in September.

Yep, I think those of us who expressed doubts during that torrid period, did so out of genuine concern for the way we were playing. Martin does indeed seem to have addressed those valid concerns, so here's hoping this positivity continues. If results are still encouraging cometh the turn of the year then I can see myself submitting an application to the Russell Martin fanclub. 

[West end Saints]

Maybe it was less that he addressed it, more that he was right, that if the players trusted him and his methods they would learn, improve and it would work. 

Of course there have been changes, but rather than a negative that he was wrong, it shows him making his principals  work - the possession based football. 

It was fair, and reasonable for people to have doubts, or to still have doubts, but those writing him off, or saying he is crap, put of his depth etc, were perhaps being blinkered and not accepting that he knows a fair bit more than they do! 

I would be very surprised if we don't make top 6.

The top two will, of course be hard, but we are performing well enough and are improving (as shown as being ahead of where Burnley were at this stage plus our last 7 game form). It will also depend on whether those around us keep up their form. 

There is no arguing that it is a good start, perhaps overshadowed by two teams have amazing starts. 

Edited 4 November, 2023 by West end Saints