Russell Martin

[tdmickey3]

46 minutes ago, Turkish said:

6 unbeaten, 14 points from 18. Really should be 16 from 18 given the Rotherham game. you can’t really fault the results

Yes it is decent but I heard mention of 9 points lost from winning positions, shows how much better our points total should be

[Fan The Flames]

33 minutes ago, Micky said:

Success = promotion, this season.

Failure = anything less. 

The bar set by the club and players, so it's a very high bar, especially so given the start that Leicester and Ipswich have made.   Not to sure that possession without purpose will achieve the aim, but from a personal point of view, at least we are winning a few games this season, which obviously is a much better fan experience.   If we don't achieve promotion this season, I can see us being in this division for some years. 

This gets said a bit, but I fail to understand what the evidence for this is. I can see all scenarios happinging.

[Toadhall Saint]

16 minutes ago, Saint Matty 76 said:

I was pretty entertained today to be fair.

Yep ditto however I’ll be really happy when we don’t concede.

[Harry_SFC]

53 minutes ago, West end Saints said:

Entertaining 

Playing with style and identity

6 games unbeaten

Crowd singing his name

Clearly good team spirit

Still not sure how we will do over the season but pretty clear he will be at least ok/decent, and may do well. 

Those how on here who think he is crap are completely entitled to their view, but although repeated frequently by the group, I don't think what I see from fans at the ground. 

There are a few who I think have an agenda against Martin.

However I think the majority like him and really want him to succeed here, it's just that his style is hard to implement and leaves us vulnerable to counter attacks. 

Against Preston we were slow and lazy in possession. Today was the total opposite. If we can play like that for the rest of the season I'm sure most of the fans will love him. 

[Dark Munster]

1 hour ago, Harry_SFC said:

There are a few who I think have an agenda against Martin.

However I think the majority like him and really want him to succeed here, it's just that his style is hard to implement and leaves us vulnerable to counter attacks. 

Against Preston we were slow and lazy in possession. Today was the total opposite. If we can play like that for the rest of the season I'm sure most of the fans will love him. 

Exactly. Can this leopard change his spots? History says no, but let's see, We've had some patches of good performances, here and there (first half Leeds, large parts of today). But still those are an oasis surrounded by tippy tap crab Russball most of the time (including our last match).

If he can put his ego aside and abandon his Russball we certainly have the squad to do well.

And we aren't on his back because he's British FFS. Is he aware of what we fans thought of Mauricio The Clown Pellegrino, Selles (he's Spanish, right?), the Dutch Laurel and Hardy pair, etc., even Claude Puel (a decent manager but despised by many because he had the charisma of a sloth).

[Turkish]

8 minutes ago, Dark Munster said:

Exactly. Can this leopard change his spots? History says no, but let's see, We've had some patches of good performances, here and there (first half Leeds, large parts of today). But still those are an oasis surrounded by tippy tap crab Russball most of the time (including our last match).

If he can put his ego aside and abandon his Russball we certainly have the squad to do well.

And we aren't on his back because he's British FFS. Is he aware of what we fans thought of Mauricio The Clown Pellegrino, Selles (he's Spanish, right?), the Dutch Laurel and Hardy pair, etc., even Claude Puel (a decent manager but despised by many because he had the charisma of a sloth).

people can’t deny we are improving. It’s not perfect but we’re picking up points, we appear to be a bit more resilient than previous saints teams and although there is still a lot of work to be done and at the moment the possession based style seems to cause more problems than the oppostion we are moving in the right direction 

we’ve got a decent run of fixtures between now and new year where the only currently top six club we play at Cardiff, we should be looking to continue our run of 7 from 9 each set of 3 games which will set us up nicely going into the new year 

[CSA96]

Yeah, yeah… I know we won 3-1, are unbeaten in six, have taken 14 of the last 18 points available and are up to 4th in the table (without our key summer signing kicking a ball yet)

But did you see that prick Martin celebrating with the fans at FT? Get him out 

[bangkoksaint]

I want him to succeed but I’m not sure he will. Likewise next week I want to see more of the same from today not unnecessary rotation or round pegs in square holes. Unfortunately I think he suffers from this modern phenomenon of trying to be too clever for his own good.

[West end Saints]

56 minutes ago, Dark Munster said:

Exactly. Can this leopard change his spots? History says no, but let's see, We've had some patches of good performances, here and there (first half Leeds, large parts of today). But still those are an oasis surrounded by tippy tap crab Russball most of the time (including our last match).

If he can put his ego aside and abandon his Russball we certainly have the squad to do well.

And we aren't on his back because he's British FFS. Is he aware of what we fans thought of Mauricio The Clown Pellegrino, Selles (he's Spanish, right?), the Dutch Laurel and Hardy pair, etc., even Claude Puel (a decent manager but despised by many because he had the charisma of a sloth).

I don't think he needs to 'change his spots'. 

Just keep improving the consistency, the players are learning his way of playing a d it good to watch. 

He adapts and players change positioning regularly during the game so it is not a fixed pattern, but the 'Russball' that some use as a criticism looks like it is working. 

[Dark Munster]

8 minutes ago, West end Saints said:

I don't think he needs to 'change his spots'. 

Just keep improving the consistency, the players are learning his way of playing a d it good to watch. 

He adapts and players change positioning regularly during the game so it is not a fixed pattern, but the 'Russball' that some use as a criticism looks like it is working. 

Disagree, it's when the team ditches Russball they look much better going forward, and defensively. Leeds first half being a prime example. Against Preston it was Russball for most of the match and we were lucky to get a draw against very limited opposition.

He does seem to be a good man manager, which is important, so I'll give him that. He just needs to dump the Russball and play to the squad's strengths. There is no excuse for us to be 10 points behind Ipswich (having played one more match) and to have one of the worst defensive records in the league.

[ErwinK1961]

9 minutes ago, Dark Munster said:

Disagree, it's when the team ditches Russball they look much better going forward, and defensively. Leeds first half being a prime example. Against Preston it was Russball for most of the match and we were lucky to get a draw against very limited opposition.

He does seem to be a good man manager, which is important, so I'll give him that. He just needs to dump the Russball and play to the squad's strengths. There is no excuse for us to be 10 points behind Ipswich (having played one more match) and to have one of the worst defensive records in the league.

72% possession today didn’t seem to be an issue.

[Turkish]

42 minutes ago, bangkoksaint said:

I want him to succeed but I’m not sure he will. Likewise next week I want to see more of the same from today not unnecessary rotation or round pegs in square holes. Unfortunately I think he suffers from this modern phenomenon of trying to be too clever for his own good.

I don’t think the rotation on Wednesday was unnessasary. Sulemana and Armstrong didn’t really have a preseason so building fitness, harwood bellis is carrying a knock and manning was suspended so 4 of the 5 changes made sense with three games in a week and 1000 miles of travel. With no midweek game this week you’d think it’d be our strongest team on Saturday 

[Stripey McStripe Shirt]

It's relatively early days. We're doing Ok, sitting in 4th. We've already played 7 of the top 10 (and we're one of them) and started the season with a team that had barely ever won a game.

Give him a chance. Have faith. Enjoy the season.

[bangkoksaint]

59 minutes ago, Turkish said:

I don’t think the rotation on Wednesday was unnessasary. Sulemana and Armstrong didn’t really have a preseason so building fitness, harwood bellis is carrying a knock and manning was suspended so 4 of the 5 changes made sense with three games in a week and 1000 miles of travel. With no midweek game this week you’d think it’d be our strongest team on Saturday 

I agree with you to a degree Wednesday but let’s see what Saturday brings - same starting 11 as today for me assuming no suspensions

[Dark Munster]

1 hour ago, ErwinK1961 said:

72% possession today didn’t seem to be an issue.

High % of possession isn't a problem, it's what you do with it (or more precisely don't do with it).

[maysie]

16 minutes ago, Dark Munster said:

High % of possession isn't a problem, it's what you do with it (or more precisely don't do with it).

Not sure you know what point you are trying to make.

So when we play well, it’s the players going against the managers wishes. When it doesn’t work it’s Russball…is that right?

Maybe, just maybe, when it works the players are doing what the manager wants and when it doesn’t they aren’t. 

[Miltonaggro]

4 hours ago, Turkish said:

people can’t deny we are improving. It’s not perfect but we’re picking up points, we appear to be a bit more resilient than previous saints teams and although there is still a lot of work to be done and at the moment the possession based style seems to cause more problems than the oppostion we are moving in the right direction 

we’ve got a decent run of fixtures between now and new year where the only currently top six club we play at Cardiff, we should be looking to continue our run of 7 from 9 each set of 3 games which will set us up nicely going into the new year 

Good summary, my overview too. Starting to see some genuine understanding in terms of partnerships (eg Bednarek and THB) and also what looks like team spirit, Ryan Fraser’s cameos epitomise this. If we keep this momentum until Stewart is fit things could get interesting. I also think if we are well positioned come December we might get some reinforcement in the January window.  Ups and downs but much more fun than the shite we endured in the Prem last year! 

[Dark Munster]

1 hour ago, maysie said:

Not sure you know what point you are trying to make.

So when we play well, it’s the players going against the managers wishes. When it doesn’t work it’s Russball…is that right?

Maybe, just maybe, when it works the players are doing what the manager wants and when it doesn’t they aren’t. 

Good grief, it's the manager's job to make sure the players play to a system, that's what he's been paid millions for. Blaming the players is no excuse. And who is saying when we play well the manager shouldn't get credit? I'm not saying that, and I don't think anyone else is.

The point is very simple, we've played tippy tappy crab football for the majority of the season, and dropped many points as a result. His record before us makes it clear it's his strategy. Hopefully he's learnt his lesson, but I doubt it, since he's been doing this since he started coaching.

We should be out playing most teams in this division with the squad we have. Not winning every match of course, but we should be up there with Ipswich. Him claiming we need time is a load of bollocks.

[Kermitzasaint]

9 hours ago, Harry_SFC said:

There are a few who I think have an agenda against Martin.

However I think the majority like him and really want him to succeed here, it's just that his style is hard to implement and leaves us vulnerable to counter attacks. 

Against Preston we were slow and lazy in possession. Today was the total opposite. If we can play like that for the rest of the season I'm sure most of the fans will 

5 hours ago, ErwinK1961 said:

72% possession today didn’t seem to be an issue.

Because we didn't play the slow ponderous play that RM likes. It's interesting that when RM knows that fans don't like him he let's the guys play. As soon as he feels safe he goes back to his excruciating slow style.

 

[Dark Munster]

1 minute ago, Kermitzasaint said:

Because we didn't play the slow ponderous play that RM likes. It's interesting that when RM knows that fans don't like him he let's the guys play. As soon as he feels safe he goes back to his excruciating slow style.

That's a perfect summary.

It seems he has the players on board, whether for good or bad tactics, even Aribo was up to speed today which is very promising. If he could just meditate about where he's going wrong (i.e. stubbornly going back to tippy tappy crab Russball), realise that will never work, then the potential is there for a successful season. But it has to start now. He needs to abandon possession just for the sake of it, but to be brave and front-footed.

Shit, did I just say that? I sound like Nathan F*cking Jones.

[ErwinK1961]

7 hours ago, Kermitzasaint said:

 

Yeah, I’m sure he’s ‘temporarily adjusted his style’ because he thinks fans don’t like him 🙄

Or, maybe this is how he wants the players to play every week.

Edited 29 October, 2023 by ErwinK1961

[Fabrice29]

13 hours ago, Dark Munster said:

Disagree, it's when the team ditches Russball they look much better going forward, and defensively. Leeds first half being a prime example. Against Preston it was Russball for most of the match and we were lucky to get a draw against very limited opposition.

He does seem to be a good man manager, which is important, so I'll give him that. He just needs to dump the Russball and play to the squad's strengths. There is no excuse for us to be 10 points behind Ipswich (having played one more match) and to have one of the worst defensive records in the league.

You’re a parody now.

[austsaint]

53 minutes ago, Fabrice29 said:

You’re a parody now.

No, there's an element of truth in what he's saying.  Not even close to parody.    You're flirting close to dogma.

[Harry_SFC]

Sorry I've not been his biggest fan to date but there's no way Martin wants us to play slow ponderous football.

After the Preston game he said he wanted us to be "braver" with the ball and take more risks. I presume this means passing the ball quicker and to players who might have opposition around them.

It's a tricky style to implement unless you've got top players.

[Fabrice29]

Just now, austsaint said:

No, there's an element of truth in what he's saying.  Not even close to parody.    You're flirting close to dogma.

Never find yourself agreeing with someone who uses the term Russball ffs  

[austsaint]

1 minute ago, Fabrice29 said:

Never find yourself agreeing with someone who uses the term Russball ffs  

You've got a point there.

[Saint_clark]

2 minutes ago, Fabrice29 said:

Never find yourself agreeing with someone who uses the term Russball ffs  

I'm excited for the future of Russball and I am fully behind him as manager. 

 

Waiting for your head to implode as you figure out what to do, now. 

[Fabrice29]

4 minutes ago, Harry_SFC said:

Sorry I've not been his biggest fan to date but there's no way Martin wants us to play slow ponderous football.

After the Preston game he said he wanted us to be "braver" with the ball and take more risks. I presume this means passing the ball quicker and to players who might have opposition around them.

It's a tricky style to implement unless you've got top players.

Right lads, well done on your 3-1 victory there, I see you actually did that thing I talked about publicly for weeks by scoring a second goal and being quicker on the ball but next week can we please go back to Russball and stop all that nonsense? Huh? Yes I've praised you in the media for doing it but no, the real aim here is the slow stuff that we shall forever term Russball.  

[Whitey Grandad]

1 minute ago, Fabrice29 said:

Right lads, well done on your 3-1 victory there, I see you actually did that thing I talked about publicly for weeks by scoring a second goal and being quicker on the ball but next week can we please go back to Russball and stop all that nonsense? Huh? Yes I've praised you in the media for doing it but no, the real aim here is the slow stuff that we shall forever term Russball.  

I prefer Rushball.

[austsaint]

1 minute ago, Whitey Grandad said:

I prefer Rushball.

But not Jonesball.

[Fabrice29]

Also, the mental gymnastics you have to do to type in one line that the team is actively going against the managers preferences but then to write in the next he's a good man manager. That's impressive.

[austsaint]

2 minutes ago, Fabrice29 said:

Also, the mental gymnastics you have to do to type in one line that the team is actively going against the managers preferences but then to write in the next he's a good man manager. That's impressive.

Yet completely plausible.

[saintant]

1 hour ago, ErwinK1961 said:

Yeah, I’m sure he’s ‘temporarily adjusted his style’ because he thinks fans don’t like him 🙄

Or, maybe this is how he wants the players to play every week.

If this is the case then why don't we play similar to yesterday which was chalk and cheese to practically every other game so far? And I don't buy into this idea that it takes time to learn because we did nothing yesterday that needs any great skill set change - it was front front foot positive football with players finding pockets of space, passing and moving, a mix of some longer balls, passing with pace on the ball and players recognising that sometimes they need to drop off to receive the ball. There was a lot we saw yesterday that has largely been missing and far less of the crab football so long may it continue.

[Harry_SFC]

3 minutes ago, saintant said:

If this is the case then why don't we play similar to yesterday which was chalk and cheese to practically every other game so far? And I don't buy into this idea that it takes time to learn because we did nothing yesterday that needs any great skill set change - it was front front foot positive football with players finding pockets of space, passing and moving, a mix of some longer balls, passing with pace on the ball and players recognising that sometimes they need to drop off to receive the ball. There was a lot we saw yesterday that has largely been missing and far less of the crab football so long may it continue.

To be fair Birmingham's set up was perfect for what we wanted to do. It was neither here nor there. They made it very easy for us.

[saintant]

5 minutes ago, Harry_SFC said:

To be fair Birmingham's set up was perfect for what we wanted to do. It was neither here nor there. They made it very easy for us.

I think this is partly true.

[Osvaldorama]

I think a big part of the issue is that we have had multiple managers in succession which do bat shit crazy stuff and get the worst out of the team. 
 

It means the fans question bat shit tactics and performances when they see them more quickly and he has been given less of a grace period. 
 

But this week shows that he is doing something right. Continuing to select Bree after mannings shocking performances, making decent substitutions yesterday and our all round game was very good.
 

Long may it continue and credit to him. 

[Saint_clark]

14 minutes ago, Harry_SFC said:

To be fair Birmingham's set up was perfect for what we wanted to do. It was neither here nor there. They made it very easy for us.

Still managed to gift them their first goal under Rooney. 

[saintant]

3 minutes ago, Saint_clark said:

Still managed to gift them their first goal under Rooney. 

With the help of the ref who failed to give the blatant foul on KWP.

[gio1saints]

16 hours ago, Dark Munster said:

Exactly. Can this leopard change his spots? History says no, but let's see, We've had some patches of good performances, here and there (first half Leeds, large parts of today). But still those are an oasis surrounded by tippy tap crab Russball most of the time (including our last match).

If he can put his ego aside and abandon his Russball we certainly have the squad to do well.

And we aren't on his back because he's British FFS. Is he aware of what we fans thought of Mauricio The Clown Pellegrino, Selles (he's Spanish, right?), the Dutch Laurel and Hardy pair, etc., even Claude Puel (a decent manager but despised by many because he had the charisma of a sloth).

Jeez you are slippery - in essence you are saying Russell’s alright as long as he stops playing this football, stops having an opinion on how football should be played and smiles through the often way ott abuse people like you give him?  

Oh , and according to your view we should abandon  @ tippy tappy crab ball @ football thats got us 6 unbeaten, abandon the positive mindset his ego helped instil that has transformed KWP and AA and Stu ( off top of my head there’s more) into what we knew they could be, rejuvenated a supposedly finished Jan and allowed for the return of one of our own in Will specifically, along with two new stars in THB and FD  because they want to play the russball you hate. 
 

Your characterisation of previous managers is straight out of the Donald Trump belittling by name calling handbook. It’s childish and it’s not clever.  Your characterisation of Russell Martin ditto.

He’s got lots of things he can do better so let’s discuss those - but if your critiques are frankly all the same  : name calling, quoting your opinions as facts and general glass half empty negativity it’s not worth debating with you. 

Edited 29 October, 2023 by gio1saints
SP, grammar,

[Bad Wolf]

18 hours ago, Harry_SFC said:

There are a few who I think have an agenda against Martin.

However I think the majority like him and really want him to succeed here, it's just that his style is hard to implement and leaves us vulnerable to counter attacks. 

Against Preston we were slow and lazy in possession. Today was the total opposite. If we can play like that for the rest of the season I'm sure most of the fans will love him. 

Bizarre isn't it? He's doing a good job! Even "good job" is at worst. He seems to be hated for simply not being perfect. Got it absolutely wrong against Sunderland and Leicester but if he'd got every single thing right, he'd be managing someone a lot higher than us.

[Bad Wolf]

5 minutes ago, gio1saints said:

Jeez you are slippery - in essence you are saying Russell’s alright as long as he stops playing this football, stops having sn opinion on how football should be played and smiles through the often way ott abuse people like you give him?  

Oh and according to your view we should Abandon @ tippy tappy crab ball”@ football thats got us 6 unbeaten, abandon the positive mindset that has transformed KWP and AA and Stu into what we knew they could be, rejuvenated a supposedly finished Jan allowed for the return of one of our own in Will specifically, along with two new stars in THB and FD  because they want to play the russball you hate. 
 

Your characterisation of previous managers is straight out of the Donald Trump belittling by name calling handbook. It’s childish and it’s not clever.  Your characterisation of Russell Martin ditto.

He’s got lots of things he can do better so let’s discuss those - but if your critiques are frankly all the same  : name calling, quoting your opinions as facts and general glass half empty negativity it’s not worth debating with you. 

Spot on.

You just know that if Russ gets us promoted, gets to midtable in The Championship and then ditches us for a slightly bigger club he'll be the one whinging that "THERE'S NO LOYALTY IN FOOTBALL THESE DAYS!!! HE OWES US!!! WE GAVE HIM A CHANCE!!!" and all the rest of it.

[AlexLaw76]

1 minute ago, Bad Wolf said:

Spot on.

You just know that if Russ gets us promoted, gets to midtable in The Championship and then ditches us for a slightly bigger club he'll be the one whinging that "THERE'S NO LOYALTY IN FOOTBALL THESE DAYS!!! HE OWES US!!! WE GAVE HIM A CHANCE!!!" and all the rest of it.

Not sure many (if any) Swansea fans were saying this in the summer

[LuckyNumber7]

16 hours ago, Dark Munster said:

Exactly. Can this leopard change his spots? History says no, but let's see, We've had some patches of good performances, here and there (first half Leeds, large parts of today). But still those are an oasis surrounded by tippy tap crab Russball most of the time (including our last match).

If he can put his ego aside and abandon his Russball we certainly have the squad to do well.

And we aren't on his back because he's British FFS. Is he aware of what we fans thought of Mauricio The Clown Pellegrino, Selles (he's Spanish, right?), the Dutch Laurel and Hardy pair, etc., even Claude Puel (a decent manager but despised by many because he had the charisma of a sloth).

Interesting that you say Puel was a decent manager, when our football under him was far more tedious and dull than it is now.

As RM stated several times, he's not going to abandon 'Russball' (I hate that term), this is how he wants his teams to play.  Yesterday's performance was clearly his style working as intended, there was still plenty of the 'tippy tappy crab' football as you put it but it was far more effective at doing what it's supposed to do, drawing the opposition out and creating space in other parts of the pitch that we could then exploit. It's obviously still being refined and in some previous games we have lacked the movement to take advantage, but that was much better yesterday. 'Russball' working as it should. If you watch Brighton they play exactly the same way and are very successful at it. It's just getting the balance right of when to play that forward ball but as we saw yesterday when it works, it's a joy to watch.

[saintant]

4 minutes ago, Bad Wolf said:

Bizarre isn't it? He's doing a good job! Even "good job" is at worst. He seems to be hated for simply not being perfect. Got it absolutely wrong against Sunderland and Leicester but if he'd got every single thing right, he'd be managing someone a lot higher than us.

He's not hated by the vast majority. A lot may disagree with his tactics but that doesn't equate to hate.

[Saint_clark]

18 minutes ago, saintant said:

With the help of the ref who failed to give the blatant foul on KWP.

During the goal? I don't see a foul there. KWP is off balance and the player runs past him.

[gio1saints]

25 minutes ago, AlexLaw76 said:

Not sure many (if any) Swansea fans were saying this in the summer

Alex, You are not wrong and it’s fair comparison to use in questioning whether he can really do it for Saints.  It’s been often repeated as well in various ways here. 

For context though, The Spice Girls ( yes I know they are one of your favourites 😁) sang a song about this. One of the lyrics I think is pertinent : 

“ If you want my future- forget my past”  

Russell was NOT recruited because he got MK Dons and Swansea promoted or won a cup or anything like that. It’s obvious that not why. Because they didn’t. 

He was recruited for the same reason Saints bought young players with what was felt were good technical skills, good athleticism, good mindset, high intelligence and high potential both as on pitch player and as resale value. 

Bottom line IF he had got Swansea promoted to EPL we would not have been able to steal him. 
 

And, I found this interesting, but others maybe less so 😇,  take a look at managers like Maresca managerial medals BEFORE He manages LCFC, Southgate at boro an obvious one, Arteta another. They’re relatively few Ancelotti's, Guardiolas  and  mourinhos around. In the Championship you buy potential managers not finished article managers.
 

You buy does this interviewee think about football the way we, the owners, think about football?

You buy can this managers style-which syncs-with-our -own-ideal footie culture sustainably win in this league & above and can it attract and retain strong fan base support?

Winning the Vauxhall vans trophy or what some previous supporters of the guys teams thought are part of due diligence - but they are a part of the consideration not the whole of why he’s actually here. Especially if the first two criteria the owners feel are satisfactory. 
 

I personally feel he will not be at Saints longer than 2/3 years. It would not surprise me to see him recruited to an EPL team - even and especially a team like Brighton if Zerbi gets nicked by Barca or RM ( or Liverpool?) And, looking ahead, he’s got Scotland National team manager to come imo. 
 

The fact that the RussellMartin foundation is based in Brighton as is his family shows the close regional affinity and that transfer would not surprise me in the slightest. Just hope he gets us up sustainably first! 

Edited 29 October, 2023 by gio1saints

[Dig Dig]

When you’ve reached a point where you have to conclude that everything that’s gone wrong is because of Martin and everything that has gone right is in spite of Martin, you might want to sit things out for a while. 

[Saint_clark]

1 hour ago, gio1saints said:

For context though, The Spice Girls ( yes I know they are one of your favourites 😁) sang a song about this. One of the lyrics I think is pertinent : 

“ If you want my future- forget my past”  

 

Possibly the greatest argument ever presented on Saintsweb.

[Bad Wolf]

2 hours ago, saintant said:

He's not hated by the vast majority. A lot may disagree with his tactics but that doesn't equate to hate.

Even that's a bit unusual considering where we are in the league and the games he's got right vs the games he hasn't ratio.

In football there's a fine line between the two. Other sports have fans that can not rate someone respectfully - In football, not rating and abuse seems to go hand in hand.

[Bad Wolf]

2 hours ago, AlexLaw76 said:

Not sure many (if any) Swansea fans were saying this in the summer

You may want to go and read their version of The Echo in the lead up to his departure