Russell Martin

[Saint Matty 76]

12 minutes ago, CSA96 said:

You and me both. The negativity of the past four seasons or so has turned large parts of this place into incredibly bitter and negative enclaves. Think it's a fair point on there being more 'screw him' energy than 'we're in a decent-to-good league position but haven't moved through the gears frequently enough yet' for some reason.

If we're so intolerably shit, yet are still 5th, unbeaten in five and still don't have our main summer signing (who happens to be a proven, prolific goalscorer) fit yet, then I can suck that up. And I feel like there has been improvement... but clearly plenty do not.

Yeah. It’s not just on here though, it’s the same with some of the guys around me in the Northam who are just so fed up of the decline over the past seven years that I think they’re being a bit OTT on Martin.

Not saying I particularly blame anyone for what it’s worth, the fall-off has been extreme and the home form in particular is embarrassing. 

[Bad Wolf]

25 minutes ago, The Kraken said:

And yet another straw man argument.

But anyway, is that the only reason why Saints fans are the second most difficult set of fans in the country to please? Is there a league table? Let’s call it the Bad Wolf table. Who is third? How often do the places move about?

 

 

I'd imagine every season and I think Leeds and Newcastle are likely to be battling it out for 3rd/4th

[CSA96]

18 minutes ago, Golac's Cunning Stunts said:

Not going to insult you by asking if you have actually watched the games this season. I presume you have. On the whole, our football is dull and predictable. We are 5th because we are in a league which is a whole world removed from PL quality. Doesn't take much to do well. Look at Leics / Ipswich.

We have scraped numerous results in the last minute. We have not dominated many teams (oddly enough, we did dominate Leeds). 

Worst of all, we have kept only 1 clean sheet all season, which is just not acceptable. I followed the Ipswich game in midweek. They went 1-0 up and you just knew that was game over. We literally need to score 3 just to start believing we can get a draw.

There's a short window where we have a massive financial advantage over other teams in the league. We are wasting it.

 

Yes, I have a season ticket and have been away this season too.

Our football is fine, there are not many teams who I am looking at in this division and thinking 'wow, I wish we played like them' to be honest. Yes, it's not got enough cutting edge at times (a lot of times) but then I expected no different without a striker with physical presence and goalscoring reliability. It's why I wasn't too worried about the Ché Adams chat when the window was open. Fingers crossed Ross Stewart can fill that void, because we really miss that type of forward.

We are playing decent-to-good Championship football, in the Championship, against Championship/L1 level oppo. We hired a decent-to-good Championship manager - TBC just how far along that scale he is.

It's exactly what I expected at this stage. We are in the mix but are not playing our best stuff yet, except for a couple of patches. We are trying to reverse four years of losing more than we win and the club being left to drift as an organisation and I think we have made a pretty decent start (if not overly impressive to-date). We are now winning more than we lose - which I am enjoying - and it does feel like we are turning a corner, albeit perhaps too slowly for some.

Totally agree re: clean sheets though. One clean sheet at the end of October is nowhere near good enough, especially with ambitions of promotion.

Edited 27 October, 2023 by CSA96

[Bad Wolf]

5 minutes ago, CSA96 said:

Yes, I have a season ticket and have been away this season too.

Our football is fine, it's not got enough cutting edge at times (a lot of times) but then I expected no different without a striker with physical presence and goalscoring reliability. It's why I wasn't too worried about the Ché Adams chat when the window was open. Fingers crossed Ross Stewart can fill that void, because we really miss that type of forward.

We are playing decent-to-good Championship football, in the Championship, against Championship/L1 level oppo. We hired a decent-to-good Championship manager - TBC just how far along that scale he is.

It's exactly what I expected at this stage. We are in the mix but are not playing our best stuff yet (except for a couple of patches). We are trying to reverse four years of losing more than we win and the club being left to drift as an organisation and I think we have made a pretty decent start (if not overly impressive to-date).

Totally agree re: clean sheets though. One clean sheet at the end of October is nowhere near good enough, especially with ambitions of promotion.

Spot on. Though I don't really care how many clean sheets we keep. I'd rather win 5-4 than draw 0-0

[Osvaldorama]

1 hour ago, Chewy said:

I read it almost entirely the other way round, though. I think people were generally positive to begin with and becoming increasingly frustrated because we don’t seem to be improving in the key areas that are obvious to everyone except RM, coupled with the fact he’s talking defensively and patronisingly to us - it’s like Jones only more coherent. Most of us have watched an awful lot of football and know sh1t when we see it - so don’t BS us into saying we’re seeing real progress on our path to finding the magic bullet of footballing systems … because we aren’t and we can all see it.

The performance against Sheff We’d was still one of our best this season and despite the time he’s had (which he’s forever banging on about) we’re no better now. 
Yes I know there were different personnel available but we’re worse TACTICALLY now.

We looked dangerous out wide - got it wide quickly and regularly and had the wingers attack their full backs or cut inside and shoot. Why have we stopped that? We had midfielders move rather than just occupy a spot in a rigid formation - why have we stopped that?

All in all, I’m actually satisfied with our overall performance - we have crap defenders, strikers and keepers which is a problem if you can’t score and prevent opposition goals. Not RMs fault. 
But I’m really concerned that the insistence of worshipping at the alter of possession football is actually highlighting our deficiencies rather than playing to our strengths. 
Im not a stat man but our xg in relation to possession must be a huge negative (ie opposition get as many xg with 20% possession as we do with 80% sort of thing).
We are so overloaded and ponderous in midfield that we dominate possession without creating anything and whenever we do lose the ball we give the opposition a dangerous chance. 

It’s this issue which is staring all of us in the face every game and isn’t improving.

FWIW I think we need a solid midfield 2 to protect the defence, and allow the full backs to push on our wide, where they can support our wingers, the real strength of our squad. Add in an amc because- quite frankly- we barely have one striker worth a spot let alone 2. Wide quickly and early and with the wingers coming in narrow to support up front with full backs providing width. 
In terms of creativity we have Stu, Charlie, Ryan, Edozie, Kamaldeen and SAA - as much creativity as any squad in the division. Yet we create f all. Given our strikers need 700 chances per goal, this is our biggest issue and to circle this back, until RM sorts this issue which all of us can see, he’ll get an increasingly frustrated fan base.

There is and was no great clamour for him to fail from day one, and being foreign has nothing to do with it. Playing the wrong tactics for the players (good ones too) at his disposal and repeating the same mistakes is what is causing the current noise - nothing else.

 

Agree with this. 
 

Honestly think we’d have more points if we appointed a Warnock/Allardyce and started going 4-4-fucking-2. We aren’t getting the best out of the players, we are shoehorning them into a “system”. 
 

He seems to be trying to reinvent football at the cost of both results & entertainment. 
 

I was looking forward to the championship as a breath of fresh air and finally being a good side in the league. But it has been basically quite boring & shit so far - no matter how many times he tells us the games are brilliant. And that’s mostly down to his style of football.

[Golac's Cunning Stunts]

2 minutes ago, Bad Wolf said:

Spot on. Though I don't really care how many clean sheets we keep. I'd rather win 5-4 than draw 0-0

being as we never win 5-4 or draw 0-0, you are going to be disappointed

[stknowle]

4 hours ago, CB Fry said:

He just needs to remember he has achieved absolutely jack shit as a football manager.

13th with MK Dons and 9th with Swansea was not a track record deserving of the job he's got. 

He is incredibly lucky that the visionary/trendsetter/too clever by half SR leadership have landed on him as their third attempt at a managerial appointment.

Stop spouting off like you're gods gift to tactics and maybe start realising this teams potential.

Talks WAAAAAY too much about himself. It’s just empty waffle punctuated with defensive ‘people want me to fail but they just don’t get it like I do’ bullshit. I can’t think of a single good manager that brings himself into the conversation as much as this individual. Moriniho maybe but he actually won stuff.

[Golac's Cunning Stunts]

3 minutes ago, stknowle said:

Talks WAAAAAY too much about himself. It’s just empty waffle punctuated with defensive ‘people want me to fail but they just don’t get it like I do’ bullshit. I can’t think of a single good manager that brings himself into the conversation as much as this individual. Moriniho maybe but he actually won stuff.

Narcissistic, but without the real world results or talent to back it up. Just like Mad Nate. 

Jose was the same as you say, but had the talent to back it up.

[Osvaldorama]

4 hours ago, CB Fry said:

He just needs to remember he has achieved absolutely jack shit as a football manager.

13th with MK Dons and 9th with Swansea was not a track record deserving of the job he's got. 

He is incredibly lucky that the visionary/trendsetter/too clever by half SR leadership have landed on him as their third attempt at a managerial appointment.

Stop spouting off like you're gods gift to tactics and maybe start realising this teams potential.

😂😂 harsh but fair. 
 

I think he forgets that we have seen genuine world class managers and talent at the club in the very recent past. 
 

I am willing to give him a chance, but let’s be real Russ, you need to prove that you are like 10% as good as a Poch or a Koeman.

Saints fans are a patient bunch but we know what world class coaching looks like and it isn’t conceding 4 goals a game, conceding from your own corners and stubbornly playing a system that doesn’t suit the playing squad. 
 

Realistically he is very, very lucky that our batshit owners have appointed him based on his record. 

[notnowcato]

2 hours ago, Saint Matty 76 said:

I do find it a bit baffling how much people seem to dislike him on here.

Lots to be disappointed about so far this season but there definitely seems to be more "screw him" energy than hope and belief we can improve within this style, which I don't see why we can't. Miles of room for improvement and we're 1 point off 3rd, yet a large majority of people on here called people hoping for promotion crazy? 

His press conferences are a bit iffy but he's literally being asked the questions to warrant those responses, that's something that people seem to forget when we're just reading his words.

The lunatics are taking over the asylum. 

[saintant]

1 hour ago, Bad Wolf said:

Well THEN we can talk about transitioning it and mixing it up. The style of play is working. He's doing a good job. But we are the most difficult set of fans in the country to please bar maybe West Ham.

This is such rubbish. Check Spurs fans forum during the first half tonight and read them slagging off their team and individual players and they're top of the Premier League and playing some great football in the main. Football fans across the country are largely all the same.

[Greedyfly]

8 minutes ago, saintant said:

This is such rubbish. Check Spurs fans forum during the first half tonight and read them slagging off their team and individual players and they're top of the Premier League and playing some great football in the main. Football fans across the country are largely all the same.

I actually think those who think we're in the minority are the lunatics here. 

 

Like, you must be so surrounded by only Saints fans that you don't have any other friends who chat the exact same way about their own team.

 

Wanting the best is human nature. For you, your team etc. I can understand the merits of both sides of the argument for RM and our brand of football at the moment, but anyone suggesting that we are the only team, or only one of a handful of teams, who are fickle and moan about not being the best possible versions of ourselves, are fucking mental and not worth having a discussion with straight off the bat.

[trousers]

1 hour ago, CSA96 said:

still don't have our main summer signing (who happens to be a proven, prolific goalscorer) fit yet

How can someone who has only played 13 games at this level be described as "proven and prolific" (at this level)?

[Elmore Saint]

When you have as many managers in such a short space of time - and they roll out the belligerent "my way or highway" crap in press conferences, it's no wonder the fans get despondent and frustrated when they see what gets served up in their name. In these situations fans' patience shortens with every subsequent appointment, and ours is heightened by the fact we've also rumbled the clowns running the show too.

Can we give this condition a name..... Scar Tissue?

[CSA96]

16 minutes ago, trousers said:

How can someone who has only played 13 games at this level be described as "proven and prolific" (at this level)?

Well, he was definitely proven to be prolific in those 13 games, by virtue of scoring 10 goals 

It was more an overall reference to his record of 40 in 81 for Sunderland, but I take your point.

[Fabrice29]

3 hours ago, Chewy said:

I read it almost entirely the other way round, though. I think people were generally positive to begin with and becoming increasingly frustrated because we don’t seem to be improving in the key areas that are obvious to everyone except RM, coupled with the fact he’s talking defensively and patronisingly to us - it’s like Jones only more coherent. Most of us have watched an awful lot of football and know sh1t when we see it - so don’t BS us into saying we’re seeing real progress on our path to finding the magic bullet of footballing systems … because we aren’t and we can all see it.

The performance against Sheff We’d was still one of our best this season and despite the time he’s had (which he’s forever banging on about) we’re no better now. 
Yes I know there were different personnel available but we’re worse TACTICALLY now.

We looked dangerous out wide - got it wide quickly and regularly and had the wingers attack their full backs or cut inside and shoot. Why have we stopped that? We had midfielders move rather than just occupy a spot in a rigid formation - why have we stopped that?

All in all, I’m actually satisfied with our overall performance - we have crap defenders, strikers and keepers which is a problem if you can’t score and prevent opposition goals. Not RMs fault. 
But I’m really concerned that the insistence of worshipping at the alter of possession football is actually highlighting our deficiencies rather than playing to our strengths. 
Im not a stat man but our xg in relation to possession must be a huge negative (ie opposition get as many xg with 20% possession as we do with 80% sort of thing).
We are so overloaded and ponderous in midfield that we dominate possession without creating anything and whenever we do lose the ball we give the opposition a dangerous chance. 

It’s this issue which is staring all of us in the face every game and isn’t improving.

FWIW I think we need a solid midfield 2 to protect the defence, and allow the full backs to push on our wide, where they can support our wingers, the real strength of our squad. Add in an amc because- quite frankly- we barely have one striker worth a spot let alone 2. Wide quickly and early and with the wingers coming in narrow to support up front with full backs providing width. 
In terms of creativity we have Stu, Charlie, Ryan, Edozie, Kamaldeen and SAA - as much creativity as any squad in the division. Yet we create f all. Given our strikers need 700 chances per goal, this is our biggest issue and to circle this back, until RM sorts this issue which all of us can see, he’ll get an increasingly frustrated fan base.

There is and was no great clamour for him to fail from day one, and being foreign has nothing to do with it. Playing the wrong tactics for the players (good ones too) at his disposal and repeating the same mistakes is what is causing the current noise - nothing else.

 

Fwiw as you’ve mentioned stats we have the highest XG in the league. I think also the highest possession. The third most dribbles and third most shots in the league per game. This idea we don’t really create anything and have suddenly stopped our wide players running at people isn’t really true. There’s a few decent stat sites out there, footy stats and who scored for example that give some interesting reading. 

[Greedyfly]

29 minutes ago, Fabrice29 said:

Fwiw as you’ve mentioned stats we have the highest XG in the league. I think also the highest possession. The third most dribbles and third most shots in the league per game. This idea we don’t really create anything and have suddenly stopped our wide players running at people isn’t really true. There’s a few decent stat sites out there, footy stats and who scored for example that give some interesting reading. 

Where from?

7th in XG according to this site here which is the only one I could find updated.

 

https://footballxg.com/xg-league-tables/

 

3rd in dribbles according to whoscored and that's almost certainly down to Sulamana and KWP. 

 

It's not great if either of those are true?

 

Appreciate it's 0106 in the morning and I should stop being a loser and go to sleep but I'm genuinely surprised anyone finds the football we're serving up entertaining. 

[Fabrice29]

4 minutes ago, Greedyfly said:

Where from?

7th in XG according to this site here which is the only one I could find updated.

 

https://footballxg.com/xg-league-tables/

 

3rd in dribbles according to whoscored and that's almost certainly down to Sulamana and KWP. 

 

It's not great if either of those are true?

 

Appreciate it's 0106 in the morning and I should stop being a loser and go to sleep but I'm genuinely surprised anyone finds the football we're serving up entertaining. 

https://footystats.org/england/championship/xg
 

got it here, it’s per game to be fair.

I find the football entertaining, certainly much more entertaining than the last few years. Enjoy watching us dominate the ball rather than watching us set pressing traps all game and hope for quick break aways.  That’s subjective to be fair but I find it as equally as surprising anyone is eager for yet another change. After how ever many years of crap, I still can’t fathom why fans think the issue is the manager.

[Gingeletiss]

2 hours ago, Fabrice29 said:

https://footystats.org/england/championship/xg
 

got it here, it’s per game to be fair.

I find the football entertaining, certainly much more entertaining than the last few years. Enjoy watching us dominate the ball rather than watching us set pressing traps all game and hope for quick break aways.  That’s subjective to be fair but I find it as equally as surprising anyone is eager for yet another change. After how ever many years of crap, I still can’t fathom why fans think the issue is the manager.

The issue with this manager and previous, is simple. Football is simple, played it, coached it, and reffed and watched it all my life (apart from when I was a baby, obviously), but these recent managers look to be trying to re-invent the wheel, with all these ‘systems’, just play football, it’s simple.

[AlexLaw76]

8 hours ago, CSA96 said:

Well, he was definitely proven to be prolific in those 13 games, by virtue of scoring 10 goals 

It was more an overall reference to his record of 40 in 81 for Sunderland, but I take your point.

Che Adams and Adam Armstrong are more proven at this level! But their performances in an attacking sense are generally dire.

I wonder why that is

[hypochondriac]

5 hours ago, Fabrice29 said:

https://footystats.org/england/championship/xg
 

got it here, it’s per game to be fair.

I find the football entertaining, certainly much more entertaining than the last few years. Enjoy watching us dominate the ball rather than watching us set pressing traps all game and hope for quick break aways.  That’s subjective to be fair but I find it as equally as surprising anyone is eager for yet another change. After how ever many years of crap, I still can’t fathom why fans think the issue is the manager.

I certainly don't want him gone, but I am of the opinion that if we ever get promoted with him (not sure we ever will) then we will be straight back down with a pitiful points tally. Not a chance does a newly promoted team not get torn a new one most weeks being this open. When you go up then pragmatism is the order of the day at least until a few seasons in when you've sufficiently increased the quality in your squad. 

[Weston Super Saint]

10 hours ago, Baird of the land said:

Do find this modern i'll play my style and fail rather than adapt to the circumstances a really odd thing. On Monday night club they were talking about how Emery was a throwback in that he is a pragmatist without a set style across his various jobs.

Martin's football not only leaves me feeling devoid of much joy, which is one thing but it also doesn't feel like it is getting the most success out of the talent at the disposal and most of all i struggle to see how it can in any way translate successfully to the Premier League.

Yes, but MaN CiTeH and something, something.

[egg]

6 hours ago, Fabrice29 said:

https://footystats.org/england/championship/xg
 

got it here, it’s per game to be fair.

I find the football entertaining, certainly much more entertaining than the last few years. Enjoy watching us dominate the ball rather than watching us set pressing traps all game and hope for quick break aways.  That’s subjective to be fair but I find it as equally as surprising anyone is eager for yet another change. After how ever many years of crap, I still can’t fathom why fans think the issue is the manager.

I'm not sure people are calling for change. I didn't want RM because his history told me that we'd get ploddy football and a team that can't defend. RM has delivered on that, unfortunately. As much as I'm sure that we'd do better with a better manager (exhibit A - Ipswich), I'd stick with him this season and see where we are in the summer. If it's this league, he has to go. If we scrape promotion (play offs realistically) then he'd probably deserve a chance to see how he goes, but this football as it's currently being played would get torn to shreds by any PL team.

In the meantime, I hope that  he realises that he's here to serve the club and the fans. In yesterday's presser he made it a lot about him. That attitude, and the ego driven 'I'd rather die doing it my way rather than try another way that may be better' attitude, is not helpful for us or him. When someone isn't even willing to acknowledge that there could be another way, the signs aren't great. 

[Fabrice29]

57 minutes ago, hypochondriac said:

I certainly don't want him gone, but I am of the opinion that if we ever get promoted with him (not sure we ever will) then we will be straight back down with a pitiful points tally. Not a chance does a newly promoted team not get torn a new one most weeks being this open. When you go up then pragmatism is the order of the day at least until a few seasons in when you've sufficiently increased the quality in your squad. 

Man, try and enjoy the season rather than worry about a hypothetical one next season. That’s a you issue, not a RM one. 

[notnowcato]

4 minutes ago, Fabrice29 said:

Man, try and enjoy the season rather than worry about a hypothetical one next season. That’s a you issue, not a RM one. 

Exactly. Focus on what needs to be done today, a home win. 

[AlexLaw76]

5 minutes ago, Fabrice29 said:

Man, try and enjoy the season rather than worry about a hypothetical one next season. That’s a you issue, not a RM one. 

Actually, it is the club's issue, as Rasmus and co dont just expect promotion quickly (RM says this alot), but to sustain the premier league.

We will fall far short of achieving the first aim under RM, so spared the hilarity of the second

[Fabrice29]

7 minutes ago, AlexLaw76 said:

Actually, it is the club's issue, as Rasmus and co dont just expect promotion quickly (RM says this alot), but to sustain the premier league.

We will fall far short of achieving the first aim under RM, so spared the hilarity of the second

Actually, it’s a club issue if/when it happens whereas deliberately taking a position to say ‘I told ya’ about something that hasn’t even begun yet, is a personality issue. 

[Whitey Grandad]

4 hours ago, Gingeletiss said:

The issue with this manager and previous, is simple. Football is simple, played it, coached it, and reffed and watched it all my life (apart from when I was a baby, obviously), but these recent managers look to be trying to re-invent the wheel, with all these ‘systems’, just play football, it’s simple.

RM seems to think that once the players learn his system all will be fine. He doesn’t seem to realise that it’s his system that is the problem.

[hypochondriac]

36 minutes ago, Fabrice29 said:

Man, try and enjoy the season rather than worry about a hypothetical one next season. That’s a you issue, not a RM one. 

Odd response. Writing an opinion on here about the future has no bearing on my ability to enjoy the season nor does it mean that I'm worrying about the future. I'm perfectly capable of enjoying this season, looking at what we are doing well and poorly whilst also thinking about what the club has said about it's intention to play this way should we get promoted. The two things aren't mutually exclusive. 

Edited 28 October, 2023 by hypochondriac

[david in sweden]

I think a lot of people are unfairly critical of Russell Martin whilst ignoring the fact that the club has made the most radical squad changes in half-a-century. 

Should we really be expecting to be one point behind a good Leicester side after just 12 games - purely because both clubs were relegated last season.?

Despite relegation Leicester weren't the worst side in the Prem.  and one or two other clubs should feel very lucky to still be playing in today's Premier League.

RM's late  arrival - along with a dozen young players, (many of whom had never played above U21 level in any league), isn't a recipe for instant return to the Prem.

That now-dismembered squad we had at the end of May proved that they simply weren't good enough - even after serving under 3 managers last season.

 

Blaming the manager is always a knee jerk reaction by fans, as everyone makes mistakes, but the manager isn't the one to take all the criticism as his playing style

has still not sunk into a few heads in the squad, and all should note that consistency is difficult in a team that has only played the same start side for  TWO games. 

Aside from two disasterous results (v. Sunderland and Leicester), our defensive record is (as good / bad) as many other sides this season, but the main reason

for our lost points is our poor conversion rate of shots / goals ratio,  and not the defence,  as " our recognised strikers " have fallen short many times. 

It is encouraging that our 22 League and Cup goals have been scored by 11 different players,  but clearly we need consistency from the front line, although 

I fear that too many critics will instantly demand someone's head,  if Ross Stewart doesn't pile up a dozen goals before the New Year. 

 

Remembering that almost any game can run to 100 minutes nowadays, we have scored 6 goals in ...the last 5 mins / or in added time ...so far , and gained an

" extra 10 points" , that we might not otherwise have had ...so very positively at least we don't give up until the final whistle. 

Our now-reduced squad is populated by a few bodies who ought not to still be at the club, and we can hope that a few identified targets can balance the equation

with a few more transfers in during the January window. 

[gio1saints]

11 hours ago, stknowle said:

Talks WAAAAAY too much about himself. It’s just empty waffle punctuated with defensive ‘people want me to fail but they just don’t get it like I do’ bullshit. I can’t think of a single good manager that brings himself into the conversation as much as this individual. Moriniho maybe but he actually won stuff.

 

10 hours ago, Golac's Cunning Stunts said:

Narcissistic, but without the real world results or talent to back it up. Just like Mad Nate. 

Jose was the same as you say, but had the talent to back it up.

 

10 hours ago, Osvaldorama said:

😂😂 harsh but fair. 
 

I think he forgets that we have seen genuine world class managers and talent at the club in the very recent past. 
 

I am willing to give him a chance, but let’s be real Russ, you need to prove that you are like 10% as good as a Poch or a Koeman.

Saints fans are a patient bunch but we know what world class coaching looks like and it isn’t conceding 4 goals a game, conceding from your own corners and stubbornly playing a system that doesn’t suit the playing squad. 
 

Realistically he is very, very lucky that our batshit owners have appointed him based on his record. 

 

1 hour ago, egg said:

I'm not sure people are calling for change. I didn't want RM because his history told me that we'd get ploddy football and a team that can't defend. RM has delivered on that, unfortunately. As much as I'm sure that we'd do better with a better manager (exhibit A - Ipswich), I'd stick with him this season and see where we are in the summer. If it's this league, he has to go. If we scrape promotion (play offs realistically) then he'd probably deserve a chance to see how he goes, but this football as it's currently being played would get torn to shreds by any PL team.

In the meantime, I hope that  he realises that he's here to serve the club and the fans. In yesterday's presser he made it a lot about him. That attitude, and the ego driven 'I'd rather die doing it my way rather than try another way that may be better' attitude, is not helpful for us or him. When someone isn't even willing to acknowledge that there could be another way, the signs aren't great. 

Just read his exact responses to the exact questions. More saints forum Death Squad work at its worst.

Some- and yes it is a minority -  Literally are so desperate to find fault with him that misattributing his words in interview is par. He even addresses that people might consider him arrogant but explains his take on it - in a fair enough way. Not fair enough for you hyenas though.
 

Please don’t be standing next to me in a few hours in the Northam with all your negativity oozing out of you, making me desperate to shower soon as I get home to remove that stench of cynicism. I’m there to support the team not spend all week undermining them and the fan base. 
COYS 

[david in sweden]

44 minutes ago, Whitey Grandad said:

RM seems to think that once the players learn his system all will be fine. He doesn’t seem to realise that it’s his system that is the problem.

Not sure "the system"  is totally to blame Whitey, there are still a few players who were outstanding at U21 level, who haven't yet adapted to " the men's game ".

If we are still in the top six at the end of the season...... I'd say it wasn't such a bad transition in style. 

Edited 28 October, 2023 by david in sweden

[egg]

9 minutes ago, gio1saints said:

 

 

 

Just read his exact responses to the exact questions. More saints forum Death Squad work at its worst.

Some- and yes it is a minority -  Literally are so desperate to find fault with him that misattributing his words in interview is par. He even addresses that people might consider him arrogant but explains his take on it - in a fair enough way. Not fair enough for you hyenas though.
 

Please don’t be standing next to me in a few hours in the Northam with all your negativity oozing out of you, making me desperate to shower soon as I get home to remove that stench of cynicism. I’m there to support the team not spend all week undermining them and the fan base. 
COYS 

You sound like RM.  Nobody is "desperate to find fault with him". People can support the team without being a fan of the manager. You know that. 

[Greedyfly]

7 hours ago, Fabrice29 said:

https://footystats.org/england/championship/xg
 

got it here, it’s per game to be fair.

I find the football entertaining, certainly much more entertaining than the last few years. Enjoy watching us dominate the ball rather than watching us set pressing traps all game and hope for quick break aways.  That’s subjective to be fair but I find it as equally as surprising anyone is eager for yet another change. After how ever many years of crap, I still can’t fathom why fans think the issue is the manager.

Fair enough.

 

Personally, I wouldn't mind the possession so much if it wasn't so ponderous. I find it even more frustrating that when we do go 1 up, we revert back to this pass it about, for passing sake strategy which, given the ability of most of players, statistically will lead to a mistake sooner or later. And often does (see Bednarek as recently as Wednesday).

 

I do agree with you and think that clientele has a lot to do with it and this why I cannot understand anyone who continues to champion the likes of those who've ruled over our downfall such as the likes of the CB noted above. Wanting Stephens back ASAP smacks of ingrained failure. 

 

However, I think RM is also part of the issue. His Swansea side, when on that 11 game run, actually played some nice progressive stuff. I haven't seen any of that barring a half against Leeds which is where he gets some leeway in his 'changing style' mantra that he leans on. However, I think, apart from being an upgrade on Jones, he's not the right fit either. He's stubbornly neglecting defensive duties which, had this been a prem season, would see us murdered weekly. Possession teams are also very good in defence and we clearly are not and there's been no improvement in that area.

Worryingly we seem to be slipping in the attaching areas as well which would be alarming but again that's down to poor personnel - see AA and Che who are historically bang average.

 

He's also reverting to negative tactics when going up in a game. Said this already but it's so fucking annoying.

 

Possession football I am fine with. I actually think it's probably too early to pull the trigger on him as well, but the excuses have to stop soon and I've seen nothing that convinces me we'll go up automatically, or convincingly win a play off. 

[saintant]

21 minutes ago, david in sweden said:

I think a lot of people are unfairly critical of Russell Martin whilst ignoring the fact that the club has made the most radical squad changes in half-a-century. 

Should we really be expecting to be one point behind a good Leicester side after just 12 games - purely because both clubs were relegated last season.?

Despite relegation Leicester weren't the worst side in the Prem.  and one or two other clubs should feel very lucky to still be playing in today's Premier League.

RM's late  arrival - along with a dozen young players, (many of whom had never played above U21 level in any league), isn't a recipe for instant return to the Prem.

That now-dismembered squad we had at the end of May proved that they simply weren't good enough - even after serving under 3 managers last season.

 

Blaming the manager is always a knee jerk reaction by fans, as everyone makes mistakes, but the manager isn't the one to take all the criticism as his playing style

has still not sunk into a few heads in the squad, and all should note that consistency is difficult in a team that has only played the same start side for  TWO games. 

Aside from two disasterous results (v. Sunderland and Leicester), our defensive record is (as good / bad) as many other sides this season, but the main reason

for our lost points is our poor conversion rate of shots / goals ratio,  and not the defence,  as " our recognised strikers " have fallen short many times. 

It is encouraging that our 22 League and Cup goals have been scored by 11 different players,  but clearly we need consistency from the front line, although 

I fear that too many critics will instantly demand someone's head,  if Ross Stewart doesn't pile up a dozen goals before the New Year. 

 

Remembering that almost any game can run to 100 minutes nowadays, we have scored 6 goals in ...the last 5 mins / or in added time ...so far , and gained an

" extra 10 points" , that we might not otherwise have had ...so very positively at least we don't give up until the final whistle. 

Our now-reduced squad is populated by a few bodies who ought not to still be at the club, and we can hope that a few identified targets can balance the equation

with a few more transfers in during the January window. 

I think our scoring of numerous late goals could be partly due to the fact that, at that stage of the game, we realise the tippy-tappy football isn't going to get us a goal in the time left so we abandon that and play without the handbrake on.

[Fabrice29]

13 minutes ago, Greedyfly said:

Fair enough.

 

Personally, I wouldn't mind the possession so much if it wasn't so ponderous. I find it even more frustrating that when we do go 1 up, we revert back to this pass it about, for passing sake strategy which, given the ability of most of players, statistically will lead to a mistake sooner or later. And often does (see Bednarek as recently as Wednesday).

 

I do agree with you and think that clientele has a lot to do with it and this why I cannot understand anyone who continues to champion the likes of those who've ruled over our downfall such as the likes of the CB noted above. Wanting Stephens back ASAP smacks of ingrained failure. 

 

However, I think RM is also part of the issue. His Swansea side, when on that 11 game run, actually played some nice progressive stuff. I haven't seen any of that barring a half against Leeds which is where he gets some leeway in his 'changing style' mantra that he leans on. However, I think, apart from being an upgrade on Jones, he's not the right fit either. He's stubbornly neglecting defensive duties which, had this been a prem season, would see us murdered weekly. Possession teams are also very good in defence and we clearly are not and there's been no improvement in that area.

Worryingly we seem to be slipping in the attaching areas as well which would be alarming but again that's down to poor personnel - see AA and Che who are historically bang average.

 

He's also reverting to negative tactics when going up in a game. Said this already but it's so fucking annoying.

 

Possession football I am fine with. I actually think it's probably too early to pull the trigger on him as well, but the excuses have to stop soon and I've seen nothing that convinces me we'll go up automatically, or convincingly win a play off. 

Quite a few people parroting this. We don’t even know what we’ll be like in 4 games time let alone of end of the season or next if we do manage to get promoted. Feels odd to just be assuming this because if we do get promoted we’ll have to had sorted out our defence to some extent. 
 

As for the rest, you’re actually just repeating a lot of Martin himself. He brings up the frustration of changing when we go ahead a lot.  It’s his job to sort it, I think give him the time to fix it. I think people really under estimating how long this season is. Things don’t have to be instant and it’s unrealistic to expect it to be so. Really think we need to come back to this next year at some stage. 

[egg]

4 minutes ago, Fabrice29 said:

Quite a few people parroting this. We don’t even know what we’ll be like in 4 games time let alone of end of the season or next if we do manage to get promoted. Feels odd to just be assuming this because if we do get promoted we’ll have to had sorted out our defence to some extent. 
 

As for the rest, you’re actually just repeating a lot of Martin himself. He brings up the frustration of changing when we go ahead a lot.  It’s his job to sort it, I think give him the time to fix it. I think people really under estimating how long this season is. Things don’t have to be instant and it’s unrealistic to expect it to be so. Really think we need to come back to this next year at some stage. 

That's a very reasoned post to be fair. He's here to stay, and hopefully we see progress. 

[Pip]

I just want to be entertained.  Is it too much to ask?

[Bad Wolf]

24 minutes ago, Pip said:

I just want to be entertained.  Is it too much to ask?

Depends. I couldn't care less about 'entertainment'. For me it's about winning. We can win every game 1-0 with a last minute dodgy own goal with 5% possession for all I care. I really don't care about the style of football that's played or how mind numbing it is because I'll always be focused on the end result.

That being said, if entertainment and pretty football is your priority, that's absolutely your right. You (presumably) pay your money like the rest of us so if you put entertaining football above results, that's totally up to you.

I just get annoyed at the people who seem to demand that we play typical Brazilian football with the ball, press high up the pitch without the ball, blood at least 10 youngsters a season, demand every single signing hits the ground running immediately, keep a clean sheet in every game, score at least 3 in every game. It's just not going to happen. You can't have everything. Not even the likes of Man City can do all that stuff.

The bottom line is, if we win today, I'll be delighted for the weekend. If we lose I'll be gutted. If we draw, I'll be a bit meh. How we arrive at either of those is completely irrelevant to me. I hope you enjoy the game for what you're looking for though. Hopefully we're both happy.

[Greedyfly]

37 minutes ago, Fabrice29 said:

Quite a few people parroting this. We don’t even know what we’ll be like in 4 games time let alone of end of the season or next if we do manage to get promoted. Feels odd to just be assuming this because if we do get promoted we’ll have to had sorted out our defence to some extent. 
 

As for the rest, you’re actually just repeating a lot of Martin himself. He brings up the frustration of changing when we go ahead a lot.  It’s his job to sort it, I think give him the time to fix it. I think people really under estimating how long this season is. Things don’t have to be instant and it’s unrealistic to expect it to be so. Really think we need to come back to this next year at some stage. 

I'm gonna ignore that 'parrot' comment because I haven't and this is largely a pleasant discussion. But it's one thing for RM to say it, it's a different game entirely for him to prove it and I've not seen an improvement in either area since game one, in fact I'd argue there's some regression, that's my issue. It's not like we're suddenly going to turn into world beaters within 4 games, and we were fucking shit last Wednesday and not much better against Hull.  Fortunately, our form has been ok but not good enough to overhaul Ipswich and certainly not Leicester.

 

I've not seen him address the change in tactics when we go up, I've seen/heard him be dismissive of defensive duties at the cost of possession and I personally have seen no improvement in performance which is what's making people turn against him. If your tactics don't work with your players, you're the problem.

I actually liked him when he came in, he's well spoken and seems relatively pleasant. I can't say I have the same feeling today.

[david in sweden]

1 hour ago, Pip said:

I just want to be entertained.      Is it too much to ask?

Entertained ?... that is asking a lot.   Have you been watching Tottenham again ? ....What do you expect .. World Cup football.?

In some games we have to dig deep, but personally as long as we can last out 95+ minutes and come out with 3 points, I'm willing to put up with it.

Edited 28 October, 2023 by david in sweden

[saintant]

1 hour ago, Bad Wolf said:

Depends. I couldn't care less about 'entertainment'. For me it's about winning. We can win every game 1-0 with a last minute dodgy own goal with 5% possession for all I care. I really don't care about the style of football that's played or how mind numbing it is because I'll always be focused on the end result.

That being said, if entertainment and pretty football is your priority, that's absolutely your right. You (presumably) pay your money like the rest of us so if you put entertaining football above results, that's totally up to you.

I just get annoyed at the people who seem to demand that we play typical Brazilian football with the ball, press high up the pitch without the ball, blood at least 10 youngsters a season, demand every single signing hits the ground running immediately, keep a clean sheet in every game, score at least 3 in every game. It's just not going to happen. You can't have everything. Not even the likes of Man City can do all that stuff.

The bottom line is, if we win today, I'll be delighted for the weekend. If we lose I'll be gutted. If we draw, I'll be a bit meh. How we arrive at either of those is completely irrelevant to me. I hope you enjoy the game for what you're looking for though. Hopefully we're both happy.

Your view is different to SR and RM then because they claim results are not important.

[Saint_clark]

7 minutes ago, saintant said:

Your view is different to SR and RM then because they claim results are not important.

Patience! Get the performances right and with enough time and/or relegations, we'll start winning games. 

[Bad Wolf]

19 minutes ago, saintant said:

Your view is different to SR and RM then because they claim results are not important.

No they didn't and you know it

[Kermitzasaint]

I don't want RM to fail. I just can't see him succeeding. 

His teams have the worst defensive record. They play slow ponderous football. The tactics and line ups are often baffling.

RM football is like playing with a deliberate handicap and it's frustrating as hell. RM then insists that this handicap will remain regardless of the fact that he has never had any success with it in his career.

The only times we look good is when we move quickly which goes against the RM philosophy. 

[Saint Matty 76]

I was pretty entertained today to be fair.

[saintant]

2 minutes ago, Saint Matty 76 said:

I was pretty entertained today to be fair.

Me too especially in the first half. 

[Turkish]

6 unbeaten, 14 points from 18. Really should be 16 from 18 given the Rotherham game. you can’t really fault the results

[West end Saints]

Entertaining 

Playing with style and identity

6 games unbeaten

Crowd singing his name

Clearly good team spirit

Still not sure how we will do over the season but pretty clear he will be at least ok/decent, and may do well. 

Those how on here who think he is crap are completely entitled to their view, but although repeated frequently by the group, I don't think what I see from fans at the ground. 

[Micky]

2 hours ago, Kermitzasaint said:

I don't want RM to fail. I just can't see him succeeding. 

His teams have the worst defensive record. They play slow ponderous football. The tactics and line ups are often baffling.

RM football is like playing with a deliberate handicap and it's frustrating as hell. RM then insists that this handicap will remain regardless of the fact that he has never had any success with it in his career.

The only times we look good is when we move quickly which goes against the RM philosophy. 

Success = promotion, this season.

Failure = anything less. 

The bar set by the club and players, so it's a very high bar, especially so given the start that Leicester and Ipswich have made.   Not to sure that possession without purpose will achieve the aim, but from a personal point of view, at least we are winning a few games this season, which obviously is a much better fan experience.   If we don't achieve promotion this season, I can see us being in this division for some years.