Russell Martin

[Fabrice29]

3 hours ago, Saint_clark said:

Just fucking play fast direct football with your first choice attacking line you pompous knob.

This is absolutely everything wrong with people in this thread by the way. Not only did we previously have a manager who wanted to do this but got hounded for many reasons including his shit style of football but also the idea that these incredibly basic statements make everything fine. 

[The Kraken]

3 minutes ago, Fabrice29 said:

For a fanbase that has experienced such shite for years now the entitlement in this thread is incredible  

Just out of interest, what is the actual level of entitlement that is about right from the fans for the game today?

[Saint_clark]

1 minute ago, Fabrice29 said:

This is absolutely everything wrong with people in this thread by the way. Not only did we previously have a manager who wanted to do this but got hounded for many reasons including his shit style of football but also the idea that these incredibly basic statements make everything fine. 

You know "direct, fast football" doesn't have to mean long ball right? We were playing the ball direct and fast v Leeds, v Stoke and in the first half today. Second half we reverted to keep ball at all costs and, well, it cost us. 

[Fabrice29]

Just now, AlexLaw76 said:

You are right. Just staying up will be amazing

COYRs

Yes, either that or just an acceptance that A) it's early and things won't be perfect B) 7 points in a week is pretty good considering not one of you probably thought we'd get that a week ago and C) the goalkeeper today was the only thing stopping us getting 9

[trousers]

I'm mightily confused... At times today I stood there looking on in admiration at how commanding and confident we were, but that admiration was interlaced with frustration at not being able to capitalise on our dominance and superior squad quality. 

Martin out? Martin in? Having seen one of his teams in the flesh for the first time today, I've genuinely no f**king idea!

[Saint_clark]

Just now, trousers said:

I'm mightily confused... At times today I stood there looking on in admiration at how commanding and confident we were, but that admiration was interlaced with frustration at not being able to capitalise on our dominance and superior squad quality. 

Martin out? Martin in? Having seen one of his teams in the flesh for the first time today, I've genuinely no f**king idea!

The trouble I have is that it seems on the face of it that the more direct, fast paced style in the first half is something that he's begrudgingly brought in due to the poor form rather than a genuine change in philosophy. Before the Stoke game he literally said "the way the players played in the first half against Leeds was probably a subconscious choice from them due to recent form". And it seems that he is very keen once we get into a winning position to switch back to his preferred style so it appears as if we've won playing his style of football. 

[Fabrice29]

10 minutes ago, Saint_clark said:

You know "direct, fast football" doesn't have to mean long ball right? We were playing the ball direct and fast v Leeds, v Stoke and in the first half today. Second half we reverted to keep ball at all costs and, well, it cost us. 

Those two teams played a lot higher and a proactive game themselves. Rotherham made a sub after 30 minutes to go 5 at the back and concede any attempts to have any possession and retreated because they realised they weren't competing. Once the space has gone there's nothing to go fast and direct into and we have to carve out chances instead. We did that and their keeper played well. It happens. 

[Fabrice29]

Just now, Saint_clark said:

The trouble I have is that it seems on the face of it that the more direct, fast paced style in the first half is something that he's begrudgingly brought in due to the poor form rather than a genuine change in philosophy. Before the Stoke game he literally said "the way the players played in the first half against Leeds was probably a subconscious choice from them due to recent form". And it seems that he is very keen once we get into a winning position to switch back to his preferred style so it appears as if we've won playing his style of football. 

He said that about the second half, not first, when we gave up a lot of possession and looked even worse than today.

[Pilchards]

The first 25 minutes of the second half was a pathetic waste of time. 
We just wanted to pass the ball for the sake of passing the ball.

I used to love watching Barcelona pass the ball around but 9/10 they would at least threaten the oppositions goal a few times.

I’m actually not surprised our two best players got subbed off eventually as they drifted out of the game with boredom.

 

[Fabrice29]

5 minutes ago, trousers said:

I'm mightily confused... At times today I stood there looking on in admiration at how commanding and confident we were, but that admiration was interlaced with frustration at not being able to capitalise on our dominance and superior squad quality. 

Martin out? Martin in? Having seen one of his teams in the flesh for the first time today, I've genuinely no f**king idea!

Having a proper striker who is a presence and threat in the box would help. We haven't had that for a long while. Adams won 1 header in the box today maybe and it lead to a goal, having someone who can compete more would really help open up different threats.

[Saint_clark]

Next time he talks about scar tissue from last season can someone show him the league table and point to Leicester at the top. 

[RedArmy]

8 minutes ago, Saint_clark said:

Next time he talks about scar tissue from last season can someone show him the league table and point to Leicester at the top. 

Difference is Leicester reinvested a good percentage of what they sold. 
 

We tried to sell everyone with a pulse and reinvested next to fuck all of it. 
 

That’s not the managers fault. 
 

His tactics are his fault however. 

[Dusic]

19 minutes ago, Saint_clark said:

Next time he talks about scar tissue from last season can someone show him the league table and point to Leicester at the top. 

A midfield 3 in most games of Ndidi, Winks and Dewsbury-Hall helps a lot.

In many games they have Iheanacho on the bench.

Doing really well but have a superior squad to anyone else, which in most positions has pretty proven PL/Intl players!

[Block41 Saint]

9 minutes ago, Dusic said:

A midfield 3 in most games of Ndidi, Winks and Dewsbury-Hall helps a lot.

In many games they have Iheanacho on the bench.

Doing really well but have a superior squad to anyone else, which in most positions has pretty proven PL/Intl players!

We should also be doing better than what we are. Some clowns are happily being dragged down to his mediocre level. 

[Saint_clark]

13 minutes ago, Dusic said:

A midfield 3 in most games of Ndidi, Winks and Dewsbury-Hall helps a lot.

In many games they have Iheanacho on the bench.

Doing really well but have a superior squad to anyone else, which in most positions has pretty proven PL/Intl players!

Makes a mockery of the fact we sold JWP so cheap though doesn't it, the fact they kept so many of their players. We seemed desperate to let him go.

[Block41 Saint]

1 minute ago, Saint_clark said:

Makes a mockery of the fact we sold JWP so cheap though doesn't it, the fact they kept so many of their players. We seemed desperate to let him go.

That's what the owners want. The last year was probably a success for them because they signed Lavia for £12m and sold him for £50m this summer. Showcase FC. 

[LGTL]

Some of you lot happily being dragged down to this level is astonishing. We aren’t fucking Rotherham and should be battling for automatics. We’re a big club at this level with a manager who has achieved the square root of fuck all in his entire career. 

[notnowcato]

1 point off the play offs. 
 

I had to check but it’s true. 

[Saint86]

3 hours ago, LGTL said:

Some of you lot happily being dragged down to this level is astonishing. We aren’t fucking Rotherham and should be battling for automatics. We’re a big club at this level with a manager who has achieved the square root of fuck all in his entire career. 

Agreed. It is an absolute joke. 

[Bad Wolf]

We aren't a "big club". We're basically this division's version of Everton.

[WestMidSaint]

11 hours ago, notnowcato said:

1 point off the play offs. 
 

I had to check but it’s true. 

Yes, but that’s presumably not what he was hired for. I assume the brief he was given was top 2, not the lottery of play offs. That’s 11 points off and even the biggest optimist would surely struggle to make a case for us catching up. 
 

 

[Kenilworthy]

23 minutes ago, WestMidSaint said:

Yes, but that’s presumably not what he was hired for. I assume the brief he was given was top 2, not the lottery of play offs. That’s 11 points off and even the biggest optimist would surely struggle to make a case for us catching up. 
 

 

Personally, I don't see it happening for Saints. But over the years we have seen that this is a league where teams can go on runs of winning game after game. Like Forest going from bottom in September 2021 to winning the play-offs.

[Galway saint]

martin is doing what he has always done and leading a mid table side. 

he has no track record of doing much more so he’s performing to par

looking at his managerial record he loses broadly as many games as he wins and that’s what the owners employed and that’s what he’s producing

its ultimately again a SR issue not a RM issue

we might get into the play offs but that’s about it  

[sledger]

adams will be gone in january,he knows it,the club knows it and as such hes not gonna get himself injured,shouldnt be near the team.

[Barsiem]

Bad subs from Martin yesterday...  why he kept Adams on and took off A Armstrong I don't know, but the really stupid one was taking off Sulemana before the game was dead and buried.  That said, on another day we would have been 4-0 up by the point those subs were made

[Lee On Solent Saint]

A thought occured to me on the way home after the game yesterday. Did SR get this the wrong way around? After sacking Ralph, should we have gone for Martin then? We practically did when we gave Selles the job anyway. So after the inevitable relegation to the Championship under Martin, would we have not been better off going for Jones for this season rather than last? 

[saintant]

RM is clearly happy to watch the side play many many passes sideways and backwards just for the sake of claiming we are possession based. If we cut those often pointless passes by half we would instantly become a better side. The danger is, the longer it is allowed to go on, the worse it will get as it becomes the norm for the players and we lose the ambition on the pitch to be incisive and forward thinking.  Ok we created chances yesterday but the most popular consensus seems to be that we spent far too long  fannying around with the ball in no-mans'-land.  We have pace to get in behind but refuse to use it because there are few passes into space for the wingers to run onto and the likes of Sulemana then get frustrated and feel they have to take on the opposition single handedly to contribute to the game. For a possession side our movement off the ball is pathetic - players should be buzzing all over the park to find pockets of space - they should be coming short, going long, running into the channels but it's not happening resulting in far too much short negative passing. Good sides playing against limited opponents like Rotherham will continually batter them relentlessly until they are like a boxer on the ropes then pick them off. Our current tactic is to play too much tip tap football which, like yesterday, gives the opposition some respite and the time to regroup, it basically lets them off the hook. Tactical changes are needed but there are no signs that this is recognised within the club.

[Tanlee]

In my opinion Leicester have a better squad than ours , would RM have them top of the league... probably not. That's more a reflection on whoever identifies our next leader than the manager himself. At this early stage he doesn't look what we need and turning on the fans who have put up with so much will hardly help matters. 

[Kermitzasaint]

18 hours ago, Dusic said:

Personally find a lot of this OTT.

With ever so slightly better finishing and/or a GK not having one of those games and we are on 9pts from the week and sitting in the top 6 despite having lost 4 in a row recently.

In the Stoke game if we take one of the massive chances (Armstrong header, Sulemana, Mara) then we win comfortably.

For me its the same today.

I can see improvements in defence, a team that is dominating the opponent and now creating good chances. The last two games we have probably had 7 or 8 very decent chances that we havent scored. On Tuesday it didnt cost us, today it did.

Personally don't see why thebresult today has anything to do with the manager, it was the players not adding a second goal that was the issue.

We look like we will be well in the mix for the playoffs, I will be majorly suprised if we dont finish comfortably inside the top 6.

Leicester are clearly the best team, they have the best squad by a mile.

Ipswich currently on an incredible run and are a team with positve momentum who have been together for a while. If they win 9 of each 11 for the rest of the season then they fully deserve auto. If they don't (more likely) then we need to make sure we are there to capitalise.

Interesting you don't feel RM is responsible for being easily nullified when a bottom of the table coach makes a change. RM just blindly let things continue regardless leading to his own special kind of nothing football.

 

[Challenger]

Let's be honest there is nothing about this club, manager included that is geared up for success. We just need to get used to it.

[Dusic]

1 hour ago, Kermitzasaint said:

Interesting you don't feel RM is responsible for being easily nullified when a bottom of the table coach makes a change. RM just blindly let things continue regardless leading to his own special kind of nothing football.

 

We had more than enough chances to win that game comfortably. Probably nine times out of 10 thats what happens.

Very frustrating not to win, but the reason wasn't Russell Martin.

[niceandfriendly]

13 hours ago, Bad Wolf said:

We aren't a "big club". We're basically this division's version of Everton.

We wish. How many dugouts have we invented?

[Saint Gifford]

Disagree, we are a big club. We won’t win the champions league or Prem anytime soon I get that. 
 

I’m sure someone will correct me, but it’s only twice maybe three times we have been relegated from the top divisions.

 

I’m also sure that we have been one of the longest serving Prem sides since its inception. 
 

We don’t have state funding and a long list of title's. But I still believe we are a big club that should be looking at some kind of FA cup run, Euro league football given time. 
 

Currently our stock has plummeted, but that’s not to say we have a great back story. 
 

I guess it comes down to the people that sign off the money. Jeezz we are not the cartoon owned club down the road just yet. 

[Harry_SFC]

Does anyone else find it infuriating when our midfielders just pass the ball backwards for the sake of it? I've lost count of how many times our players (Smallbone is the worst) don't turn with the ball and play it forwards when it's clearly on. You can still play a possession game without just recycling it sideways and backwards all the time.

It is totally risk averse football. The lack of ambition is an obvious problem with these tactics.

Edited 8 October, 2023 by Harry_SFC

[stknowle]

2 minutes ago, Harry_SFC said:

Does anyone else find it infuriating when our midfielders just pass the ball backwards for the sake of it? I've lost count of how many times our players (Smallbone is the worst) don't turn with the ball and play it forwards when it's clearly on. You can still play a possession game without just recycling it sideways and backwards all the time.

It is totally risk averse football. The lack of ambition is an obvious problem with these tactics.

Yes I find it utterly and totally infuriating. There's a time and place for that kind of football. I recall one of our 6 wins last season against Bournemouth we did it very well and saw the game out. 0-1 up away with 10-15 minutes to go is the time and place. 1-0 up at home against a shite team with half the match remaining is not.

[lambtiss]

1 hour ago, Dusic said:

We had more than enough chances to win that game comfortably. Probably nine times out of 10 thats what happens.

Very frustrating not to win, but the reason wasn't Russell Martin.

So who told the team to pass the ball slowly and negatively for half an hour, made three poor substitutions resulting on us losing the attacking iniative to put the game to bed which would have rendered their goal insignificant.  You shouldn't sit back, at home on a 1-0 lead especially against the team bottom of the league.

[trousers]

5 hours ago, Galway saint said:

martin is doing what he has always done and leading a mid table side. 

he has no track record of doing much more so he’s performing to par

looking at his managerial record he loses broadly as many games as he wins and that’s what the owners employed and that’s what he’s producing

its ultimately again a SR issue not a RM issue

we might get into the play offs but that’s about it  

Indeed. The club even put out this info-graphic when he joined... 

 

[Badger]

1 minute ago, trousers said:

Indeed. The club even put out this info-graphic when he joined... 

 

Have to wonder what sort of numbnuts in the Press Office thought this was something to shout from the rooftops, or that it would impress the masses.

Assuming it didn’t come from a higher level than our marketing team of course.

I’d accept the view that he didn’t have the resources at Swansea or MK that he’d get here, but even so that stat and graphic does nothing to inspire the fanbase. 

[Badger]

5 hours ago, Kenilworthy said:

Personally, I don't see it happening for Saints. But over the years we have seen that this is a league where teams can go on runs of winning game after game. Like Forest going from bottom in September 2021 to winning the play-offs.

I looked up the 2011/12 season and noticed that in October 2011 Reading were 10 points behind us but made up ground. 

But I’m not expecting us to put anything like that run of form together. 

[Maggie May]

3 hours ago, Challenger said:

Let's be honest there is nothing about this club, manager included that is geared up for success. We just need to get used to it.

Frustratingly, we could have pushed on after Koeman. We were an attractive, fashionable club ready to establish ourselves as a top 10 side. It just didn’t happen. There was some hope we’d start to turn it around again after appointing Hassenhuttl but, for some reason, it was a failure in the end.

Edited 8 October, 2023 by Maggie May

[Maggie May]

2 minutes ago, Badger said:

I looked up the 2011/12 season and noticed that in October 2011 Reading were 10 points behind us but made up ground. 

But I’m not expecting us to put anything like that run of form together. 

We don’t have this in us. 

[Badger]

4 minutes ago, Maggie May said:

We don’t have this in us. 

As things stand at the moment,sad but true.

Edited 8 October, 2023 by Badger

[Mr X]

18 hours ago, LGTL said:

Some of you lot happily being dragged down to this level is astonishing. We aren’t fucking Rotherham and should be battling for automatics. We’re a big club at this level with a manager who has achieved the square root of fuck all in his entire career. 

Hasn't he only been a manager for like four years or something? 

[Wade Garrett]

5 hours ago, sledger said:

adams will be gone in january,he knows it,the club knows it and as such hes not gonna get himself injured,shouldnt be near the team.

Not sure who would want to sign him.  He was absolutely useless yesterday.  If I was him, I would sign the 3 year contract.  If I was Saints I would be renegotiating.

[Turkish]

21 minutes ago, Badger said:

I looked up the 2011/12 season and noticed that in October 2011 Reading were 10 points behind us but made up ground. 

But I’m not expecting us to put anything like that run of form together. 

We’re 13 points behind Leicester already, we aren’t catch them they will run away with the league. It’ll probably be play offs at best for us 

[trousers]

9 minutes ago, Wade Garrett said:

Not sure who would want to sign him. 

Who's to say he wouldn't end up as one of those players who plays within themselves at Saints but blossoms when playing for a better managed team...? There's a fair few precedents of this after all... 

[Challenger]

8 minutes ago, Turkish said:

We’re 13 points behind Leicester already, we aren’t catch them they will run away with the league. It’ll probably be play offs at best for us 

Need to get real, this brand of football is going to fall well,well short.

[OnceaSaintalwaysaSaint]

One poster wrote that with a couple of wins behind him, RM probably felt it a chance to re-establish his brand of possession football. After we went ahead, it certainly looked like we were holding on to the ball and asking Rotherham to chase it. Why can't he see that's a recipe for failure?

Apart from the fact that you don't change a winning team, I'm concerned he keeps making the wrong substitutions. 

Stop talking about being "brave", RM. Talk about being "passing with intent" We can still easily make the play-offs. We've got the fastest players in the League. Use them. Positive, direct football. That's what we need.

[Gloucester Saint]

10 minutes ago, OnceaSaintalwaysaSaint said:

One poster wrote that with a couple of wins behind him, RM probably felt it a chance to re-establish his brand of possession football. After we went ahead, it certainly looked like we were holding on to the ball and asking Rotherham to chase it. Why can't he see that's a recipe for failure?

Apart from the fact that you don't change a winning team, I'm concerned he keeps making the wrong substitutions. 

Stop talking about being "brave", RM. Talk about being "passing with intent" We can still easily make the play-offs. We've got the fastest players in the League. Use them. Positive, direct football. That's what we need.

Yep, WGS used to talk about being brave on the ball and that meant using the ball progressively and ambitiously In the right areas. He used to describe sideways or backwards passes all of the time as cowards football.

[Turkish]

11 minutes ago, Gloucester Saint said:

Yep, WGS used to talk about being brave on the ball and that meant using the ball progressively and ambitiously In the right areas. He used to describe sideways or backwards passes all of the time as cowards football.

He also called it Propaganda football 

a good description