Russell Martin

[OnceaSaintalwaysaSaint]

On 30/09/2023 at 15:12, RedArmy said:

Credit where it’s due he got it spot on today, got his subs right too which helped us regain a bit of control in the second half. 
 

More of the same please Russell. 

Wasn't sure about those subs. Bringing on Che in the 70th minute did nothing. Still had mini heart failure when he brought on Bree & Aribo albeit with only 5 + 5 minutes to go.

Is his building from the back/possession style football so completely different from the more direct stuff we played yesterday? Hopefully, he'll realise you can build from the back but just do it quicker and with purpose. 

[eurosaint]

11 hours ago, cambsaint said:

Just goes to show that referees can't win. I too thought the ref penalised Saints for every offence and let Leeds getaway with exactly the same things. Amazed she thought he was woeful. The quality of refereeing is obviously in the eye of the beholder.

Absolutely true, I guess that we are all inherently biased towards our own team! How many times have you been to a match with a mate who supports the opposition and opinions in the car on the return journey are polar opposites 😊

[Saint86]

The question is, is he going to show he's learnt from the first half vs Leeds, or will we go straight back to ideological suicide?

[Barsiem]

I'm liking the above quote!  I appreciate the jury is still out on Martin after that run of defeats, but he is the most proactive manager tactically we've had since Adkins imo.  The tactical changes he's made for the last two games have shored the defence up massively (albeit we're still shaky at the back), and he has already made positive impacts in the 2nd half of games with substitutions to have us go on the attack or to protect a lead is something we haven't seen in years.  Here's hoping the good run continues for a long while yet

[notnowcato]

Russell is also a young manager, he, like many of our players are learning their craft. It is a results business so it’s good for him to be heading into the final game of this tranche with a couple of wins and the performances improving giving him some breathing space to kick on after this international break. 

[Chewy]

1 hour ago, Barsiem said:

I'm liking the above quote!  I appreciate the jury is still out on Martin after that run of defeats, but he is the most proactive manager tactically we've had since Adkins imo.  The tactical changes he's made for the last two games have shored the defence up massively (albeit we're still shaky at the back), and he has already made positive impacts in the 2nd half of games with substitutions to have us go on the attack or to protect a lead is something we haven't seen in years.  Here's hoping the good run continues for a long while yet

I noticed that quote too. Despite his bravado in earlier interviews about sticking to the process and being brave he has changed things and been more pragmatic, especially with the full backs. 
Wonder if Wilcox had a word, if he and the coaches decided it for themselves or even if it was the players. Whatever the case it was needed. And to be fair it’s what most of us were clamouring for on this thread. Maybe some of us were right after all? 
He does speak well, seems to have decent values, is proactive with his subs, likes to play good football and seems popular with the players. There’s a lot to like and why I think most fans want him to work out. 
But he was taking us down a kamikaze path. If he’s back-tracked and gone down a more pragmatic version of that route, I’m all for it.

Maybe the fans are to blame for this? Who knows? Maybe we need a poll?? 😉

[gio1saints]

I’ve had a road to Damascus moment ( I think!) as I try to understand the RM philosophy.
 

Martin is relentlessly positive. 
 

He name checks his players constantly in a positive manner when interviewed. 
 

In interview whenever asked about one of our guys there is barely a sentence where he does not express how great, brave, brilliant, amazing, excellent, professional, or insert any upbeat adjective you like, one of our players is. 
 

I can understand why players would ultimately come to love him as the gaffer as his major philosophical weapon is to give all his love, belief and trust in them. 
 

I really wish him all the best in this approach. I can recall players once used to say same about Mourinho at Chelsea and you can name others. 
 

Of course you can name (winning) others who motivate as much by fear as by love - Ferguson a good example but in an era in which this kind of approach is increasingly understood to have fundamental psychological benefits ( I’m talking mental health here) I think it’s good to see and refreshingly progressive. 
 

 

[saintant]

8 minutes ago, gio1saints said:

I’ve had a road to Damascus moment ( I think!) as I try to understand the RM philosophy.
 

Martin is relentlessly positive. 
 

He name checks his players constantly in a positive manner when interviewed. 
 

In interview whenever asked about one of our guys there is barely a sentence where he does not express how great, brave, brilliant, amazing, excellent, professional, or insert any upbeat adjective you like, one of our players is. 
 

I can understand why players would ultimately come to love him as the gaffer as his major philosophical weapon is to give all his love, belief and trust in them. 
 

I really wish him all the best in this approach. I can recall players once used to say same about Mourinho at Chelsea and you can name others. 
 

Of course you can name (winning) others who motivate as much by fear as by love - Ferguson a good example but in an era in which this kind of approach is increasingly understood to have fundamental psychological benefits ( I’m talking mental health here) I think it’s good to see and refreshingly progressive. 
 

 

I think managers need a mix and should be able to dish out the hair drier treatment to show players when they are angry with a performance. Ferguson could do it but was also able to show both sides from what Man Utd players have said about him. There is a danger in being too soft that can lead to losing respect so a happy medium needs to be found. Maybe RM is tougher in private which is fair enough because that's where the bollockings should be handed out.

[gio1saints]

1 hour ago, Chewy said:

Maybe the fans are to blame for this? Who knows? Maybe we need a poll?? 😉

I think this point has been put to bed recently. In summary; 

NO it’s not the fault of the fans. It’s RM and JW’s fault - but we would be one-eyed if we failed to give due credit in same measure if it goes right. 
 

This squad should get promoted playing whatever formation and style you can think of. They are all top footballers at Championship level - there can surely not be much unbiased dispute about that. 
 

That being the case, it’s surely a matter of HOW we get promoted. The RM playbook is considered the best long term get promoted stay promoted approach for Saints.
 

It’s What we as supporters argue about constantly. I’d rather 3 points playing crap than zero playing Brazilian - but I want my cake and to eat it too. I’d like both , ideally, and the road to that is rocky and filled with 5-0 and 1-4 mishaps! And that’s if we even arrive! 

[Holmes_and_Watson]

52 minutes ago, saintant said:

I think managers need a mix and should be able to dish out the hair drier treatment to show players when they are angry with a performance. Ferguson could do it but was also able to show both sides from what Man Utd players have said about him. There is a danger in being too soft that can lead to losing respect so a happy medium needs to be found. Maybe RM is tougher in private which is fair enough because that's where the bollockings should be handed out.

I think he said he lost his temper during 5 mins when training didn't go well. Martin being angry is probably nowhere near other managers. If it were the players would worry about a jeckyll and Hyde personality. But it did show that he's focused on developing them within a supporting environment, but also does have levels of harsher feedback, when required.

[Professor]

Oddly, the win over Stoke has reduced my confidence in RM. 
The team, plus subs, that he praised did enough to earn a 0-0 away draw. Not promotion form. The win was down to a moment of skill by Stu Armstrong, not due to the team, the tactics, bravery or any of RM’s word salads. We have a squad packed with talented players who are easily capable of winning games in this league. All RM needs to do is pick the best eleven available 

[egg]

2 minutes ago, Professor said:

Oddly, the win over Stoke has reduced my confidence in RM. 
The team, plus subs, that he praised did enough to earn a 0-0 away draw. Not promotion form. The win was down to a moment of skill by Stu Armstrong, not due to the team, the tactics, bravery or any of RM’s word salads. We have a squad packed with talented players who are easily capable of winning games in this league. All RM needs to do is pick the best eleven available 

So we only the game because someone scored a goal?  That's kind of the point. 

[S-Clarke]

56 minutes ago, Professor said:

Oddly, the win over Stoke has reduced my confidence in RM. 
The team, plus subs, that he praised did enough to earn a 0-0 away draw. Not promotion form. The win was down to a moment of skill by Stu Armstrong, not due to the team, the tactics, bravery or any of RM’s word salads. We have a squad packed with talented players who are easily capable of winning games in this league. All RM needs to do is pick the best eleven available 

These sort of posts really confuse me. One minute you've got people crying out for pragmatic tactics, not as open etc etc, we get that, we win....but it's not good enough.

We won, who the fuck gives a shit as to how we won. I don't. You'll get wins like that over the course of a season, if you expect any football team to sparkle every week then you're in the wrong sport.

[notnowcato]

Come on guys, all the Prof wants is champagne football straight after a piss poor run of results. Simples. 

[Saint Gifford]

I hope RM is watching Newcastle V PSG now. 
 

Newcastle 34% possession scored 3. PSG 66% scored 0. 
 

I know it’s all about the game at the time, but I hope he keeps up his change in attitude about possession possession for possession sake. 
 

 

[Colinjb]

1 minute ago, Saint Gifford said:

I hope RM is watching Newcastle V PSG now. 
 

Newcastle 34% possession scored 3. PSG 66% scored 1. 
 

I know it’s all about the game at the time, but I hope he keeps up his change in attitude about possession possession for possession sake. 
 

 

Just sorted that for you.

[notnowcato]

1 hour ago, Saint Gifford said:

I hope RM is watching Newcastle V PSG now. 
 

Newcastle 34% possession scored 3. PSG 66% scored 0. 
 

I know it’s all about the game at the time, but I hope he keeps up his change in attitude about possession possession for possession sake. 
 

 

SaintsWeb myth… “possession for possession sake”. 

[Convict Colony]

10 hours ago, Saint Gifford said:

I hope RM is watching Newcastle V PSG now. 
 

Newcastle 34% possession scored 3. PSG 66% scored 0. 
 

I know it’s all about the game at the time, but I hope he keeps up his change in attitude about possession possession for possession sake. 
 

 

To be fair most of Newcastle's possession seemed to be in the PSG half

[Patches O Houlihan]

Just watched the extended press conference prior to Rotherham this afternoon.  

The last question was interesting. RM at pains to make clear that he won't try to coach the aggressiveness out of Charly Alcaraz or Flynn Downes. That its an element that brings an edge to their game and if he did so he'd take away from their overall skill set. When set against the rest of the conversation you can see that he feels many players get over coached and become a confused lesser version of themselves, and he is keen to avoid that.

I can't help it. I like Russell, like I liked Ralph. He just seems like a good bloke. I'm pleased we ended our losing streak and were able to sort out the midfield better before things got too tense. Really want him (and Saints) to do well. 

 

[Gloucester Saint]

In huge danger again, back to where he was pre-Boro. Had to win today, next game has to be a heavy victory and immaculate display.

For a manager on the brink, his Pellegrino tactics and holding on for a 1-0 v Rotherham were astonishing.

Go, go now. You have no legitimacy from our fanbase.

[Block41 Saint]

He's painfully out of his depth. We've had one good 45 minutes under him in 11 games. His subs killed us today. 

[LGTL]

Two tough away games after the international break. Can only see a maximum of a point. Martin out.

[Saint_clark]

Find a way to play that works, great. 

But it isnt how Martin wanted to play and, even worse, it's the way fans have been screaming at him to play all season. Can't have that. 

So try and get a 1-0 lead playing that way then switch to his style and see the game out, taking all the credit. 

Just fucking play fast direct football with your first choice attacking line you pompous knob.

[Pilchards]

6 minutes ago, Saint_clark said:

Find a way to play that works, great. 

But it isnt how Martin wanted to play and, even worse, it's the way fans have been screaming at him to play all season. Can't have that. 

So try and get a 1-0 lead playing that way then switch to his style and see the game out, taking all the credit. 

Just fucking play fast direct football with your first choice attacking line you pompous knob.

Totally agree.

Anyone defending that performance needs to be shot.

Played bottom  of the league Boro and we lost and now Rotherham today who are fucking shit.

We might have the odd win but overall we are going to be hit and miss all season.

[CB Fry]

Weeks like this are going to be typical for the season. Just enough there to buy him more time in the job, but nowhere near enough quality for us to be anywhere near the real promotion battle.

As a manager he has never achieved anything, at all. And he ain't achieving anything with us. 

[saintant]

12 minutes ago, Pilchards said:

Totally agree.

Anyone defending that performance needs to be shot.

Played bottom  of the league Boro and we lost and now Rotherham today who are fucking shit.

We might have the odd win but overall we are going to be hit and miss all season.

To be fair I think Boro were in a bit of a false position and they'll soon be above us.  Rotherham, on the other hand, candy from a baby is how it should have gone.

[CB Fry]

Weeks like this are going to be typical for the season. Just enough there to buy him more time in the job, but nowhere near enough quality for us to be anywhere near the real promotion battle.

As a manager he has never achieved anything, at all. And he ain't achieving anything with us. 

[The Kraken]

3 minutes ago, CB Fry said:

Weeks like this are going to be typical for the season. Just enough there to buy him more time in the job, but nowhere near enough quality for us to be anywhere near the real promotion battle.

As a manager he has never achieved anything, at all. And he ain't achieving anything with us. 

You can say that again.

He will consistently be not shit enough to get rid of and nowhere near good enough to be confident in.

[saintant]

Just now, CB Fry said:

Weeks like this are going to be typical for the season. Just enough there to buy him more time in the job, but nowhere near enough quality for us to be anywhere near the real promotion battle.

As a manager he has never achieved anything, at all. And he ain't achieving anything with us. 

I agree. Much as he's a nice guy and I'd love to see him succeed I'll be surprised if he turns out to be anything other than a mid table Championship manager - he doesn't demonstrate in his words or actions that he has the tools to become one of the bright lights in the game. I think what we've seen so far is about what we'll get. It's a hard job and I don't think RM is ever going to excel at it. Hope he proves me wrong but the signs aren't good.

[tdmickey3]

One trick pony

[Dark Munster]

Mediocracy is his ceiling. And what's so infuriating this could be seen a mile away before hiring him, and he is wasting one of the best squads in the Championship. After we finish mid table at the end of the season, we'll lose most of our quality players, and the downward spiral will continue. A golden opportunity blown.

Thank you Rasmus W. Ankersen, you remind me of Trump, you have delusions that you're a genius, but you're actually a ****ing moron.

[Miltonaggro]

Tell you what, that was top Russball today, that’s how it looks in its refined form, players following managerial instructions to the letter. What a pile of rancid dogshit.

[goodymatt]

2 minutes ago, Miltonaggro said:

Tell you what, that was top Russball today, that’s how it looks in its refined form, players following managerial instructions to the letter. What a pile of rancid dogshit.

Is rancid dogshit football creating at least 4 big chances and dominating the majority of a match? We saw much worse footy for the majority of the last 2 years. 

We are underachieving overall and those 4 straight suicidal footy results were a world away from today’s performance IMO. To be out of the automatics race so early in the season is not acceptable but I can’t agree that what I watched today was a poor performance. We won’t dominate teams like that too often, very unfortunate to not comfortably win this game.

I remain unconvinced Martin is the right guy to get us promoted but today was on the finishing of our players.

[Miltonaggro]

8 minutes ago, goodymatt said:

Is rancid dogshit football creating at least 4 big chances and dominating the majority of a match? We saw much worse footy for the majority of the last 2 years. 

We are underachieving overall and those 4 straight suicidal footy results were a world away from today’s performance IMO. To be out of the automatics race so early in the season is not acceptable but I can’t agree that what I watched today was a poor performance. We won’t dominate teams like that too often, very unfortunate to not comfortably win this game.

I remain unconvinced Martin is the right guy to get us promoted but today was on the finishing of our players.

I thought we were arrogant and naive, a heady mix in this league. Propaganda football at its finest, and judging by those stood around me interpreted by a majority as a poor performance at home to Rotherham. 

[goodymatt]

Just now, Miltonaggro said:

I thought we were arrogant and naive, a heady mix in this league. Propaganda football at its finest, and judging by those stood around me interpreted by a majority as a poor performance at home to Rotherham. 

Propaganda football is possession football for possession’s sake? But we actually created a lot of good chances today, just weren’t clinical enough to protect ourselves against Rotherham scoring their only half chance. It’s a poor result for sure, but our performance was pretty dominant. I don’t think we will dominate like that too often.

I understand the frustration after dominating a game so much and not winning. So annoying and we have to stew on it for 2 weeks. I can’t believe we didn’t win today.

[Miltonaggro]

2 minutes ago, goodymatt said:

Propaganda football is possession football for possession’s sake? But we actually created a lot of good chances today, just weren’t clinical enough to protect ourselves against Rotherham scoring their only half chance. It’s a poor result for sure, but our performance was pretty dominant. I don’t think we will dominate like that too often.

I understand the frustration after dominating a game so much and not winning. So annoying and we have to stew on it for 2 weeks. I can’t believe we didn’t win today.

We agree on the latter point Matt, far too casual going into the international break. Let’s hope Stewart is in the squad for Hull as we are desparate for that type of player. 

[TheAlehouseBrawlers]

I agree with MIltonaggro, it smacked of arrogance. I can't help thinking after dominating them first half, Martin may have thought the 3 points were in the bag and this was the perfect opportunity to showcase his (ponderous) gazzillion-pass football second half. It's astounding we never went for the jugular, a chance to claw back some 'goals against' and see off probably the worst side (particularly away) in the division. Rotherham clearly couldn't believe their luck.

I'm not liking this football malarkey.

[The Kraken]

42 minutes ago, tdmickey3 said:

One trick pony

When do we get to see the trick?

[bpsaint]

I can’t be too angry at RM anymore to be honest. He had a mediocre record before joining, and he’s proving himself to be equally mediocre here. 
 

The anger should be directed at SR who have once again failed with their manager appointment, and let all the fans down as a result.

Edited 7 October, 2023 by bpsaint

[RedArmy]

6 minutes ago, The Kraken said:

When do we get to see the trick?

We’ve seen it many times. His trick is not winning games of football that we should comfortably win. 

[West end Saints]

29 minutes ago, goodymatt said:

Propaganda football is possession football for possession’s sake? But we actually created a lot of good chances today, just weren’t clinical enough to protect ourselves against Rotherham scoring their only half chance. It’s a poor result for sure, but our performance was pretty dominant. I don’t think we will dominate like that too often.

I understand the frustration after dominating a game so much and not winning. So annoying and we have to stew on it for 2 weeks. I can’t believe we didn’t win today.

Good post. 

 

I think many posts are understandable frustration and emotional. 

We played well for a decent count of today. The first 25 mins or so was excellent. Apart from the  finishing no one can complain. Good possession, moving the ball quickly,midfielders overlapping etc. Could have, and should have been 3 or 4 up. 

Clearly how the manager set them up so don't think it was his fault at all today. 

I enjoyed it. 

The scary (close to me) medical emergency understandably took away some of the atmosphere and energy from both crowd and players. 

But we all knew we would suffer from not killing the game. 

In the second half Rotherham were offering nothing, sat back, seemed happy to keep to 1-0.

We started to run out of ideas and slowed down. 

I could see why Che was considering giving their keeper the ball, and him being a mug led to the goal. 

I am frustrated and disappointed. 

I am also unhappy about how far off the top two we are. 

But personally don't agree with booing players, and manager after 7 points in a week and a game where we played well, created loads, etc but missed out on a win due to 1) a goal keeper having the game of his life 2) missed chances 3) Che stupidity 4) a period of 20 mins or so when we looked a bit complacent and slowed down go play out the game. 

 

Not sure how we will do under Martin but he is no where near being sacked and nor should he be. 

[Miltonaggro]

45 minutes ago, The Kraken said:

When do we get to see the trick?

Traditionally after a lot of horseshit! 

[Dark Munster]

59 minutes ago, bpsaint said:

I can’t be too angry at RM anymore to be honest. He had a mediocre record before joint, and he’s proving himself to be equally mediocre here. 
 

The anger should be directed at SR who have once again failed with their manager appointment, and let all the fans down as a result.

Yep, and in one person in particular. You know who I'm talking about.

[AlexLaw76]

Crap mid-level manger

we are getting exactly what it says on the tin 

[Block41 Saint]

Another woeful managerial appointment from woeful owners. 🙃

[HarvSFC]

We're better defensively, although we couldn't get much worse.

Now, he needs to learn substitutions. Against Leeds, the substitutions made us worse, against Stoke, the substitutions made us worse, today, the substitutions made us worse.

I think SAA would be a pretty good substitutions for Suelemana, if he can't last 90 minutes, so why he has been demoted back to the Under-21s, I'm not sure. Fraser's a different player, more of a grafter who won't pull off the magic to win a game and Aribo's also different in that he's just so average and lazy. Whereas, Amo-Ameyaw's like a younger Sulemana in that he has that skill and trickery to get fans off their seat and create something.

Mara's also not it, so poor. Hope not to see him again for a while when Stewart gets fit.

We don't always need to make 5 subs. Before COVID teams coped with 3.

[Dusic]

Personally find a lot of this OTT.

With ever so slightly better finishing and/or a GK not having one of those games and we are on 9pts from the week and sitting in the top 6 despite having lost 4 in a row recently.

In the Stoke game if we take one of the massive chances (Armstrong header, Sulemana, Mara) then we win comfortably.

For me its the same today.

I can see improvements in defence, a team that is dominating the opponent and now creating good chances. The last two games we have probably had 7 or 8 very decent chances that we havent scored. On Tuesday it didnt cost us, today it did.

Personally don't see why thebresult today has anything to do with the manager, it was the players not adding a second goal that was the issue.

We look like we will be well in the mix for the playoffs, I will be majorly suprised if we dont finish comfortably inside the top 6.

Leicester are clearly the best team, they have the best squad by a mile.

Ipswich currently on an incredible run and are a team with positve momentum who have been together for a while. If they win 9 of each 11 for the rest of the season then they fully deserve auto. If they don't (more likely) then we need to make sure we are there to capitalise.

[Roo1976]

2 hours ago, Pilchards said:

Totally agree.

Anyone defending that performance needs to be shot.

Played bottom  of the league Boro and we lost and now Rotherham today who are fucking shit.

We might have the odd win but overall we are going to be hit and miss all season.

That Boro game has ignited their season hasnt it...................we are so so far behind the top after only 11 games,but RM will stay even after jan window ..........WHY.........................? our lack of a  strong midfield pressence  was so apparent again today.Only saw the last 30 mins but from what ever went on in the first half it didnt gain anything in the second.

When are we going to get a coach/manager that has the tenacity to drive the team with fluid quick attractive tactics?  do we want promotion?,can we afford promotion?(money gained by Sky aside).Fuck me another dissapointing mangerial cluster fuck. Wheres Sam AA?,he looked good in the early part of the season, promising you might say ,certainly not affraid to take a player on and move the ball quickly IMO. Better than Fraser,and whats with the new Ely-Smallbone getting ahead of Alcaraz all the time .Like most of our midfield plays backwards and sideways way too slow and safe,btw fucking cant tackle either,  along with the rest.

[Fabrice29]

For a fanbase that has experienced such shite for years now the entitlement in this thread is incredible  

[AlexLaw76]

3 minutes ago, Fabrice29 said:

For a fanbase that has experienced such shite for years now the entitlement in this thread is incredible  

You are right. Just staying up will be amazing

COYRs