Russell Martin

[FarehamSaintJames]

People that think he was going to be sacked are deluded.

If nothing changes in the next six then I see early December becoming the month Saints start to look at options, before inevitably settling on another backroom member of the team. 😂

[stknowle]

1 hour ago, Colinjb said:

My exact feelings towards the club right now too. I can take us losing, but we are all being treated like absolute idiots. We have been watching terrible football since 2017 and it's dressed up as though everything is fine.

AND with the odd implied accusation that it's at least partly our fault. Seriously you could not make this shit up. I cannot CANNOT believe what a ridiculous shit show we are.

[Saint NL]

Sheff United got hammered, surely they'll go for Warnock sooner or later. Maybe we need to move now

[harvey]

4 hours ago, stknowle said:

I like this one:

Don’t they understand they’re following ‘a process’? 

I shouldn’t laugh given where we are now, but it’s all very predictable. He’s a very limited manager. Not the worst, but a one trick pony who can’t adapt nonetheless.

 

A one trick donkey more than a one trick pony.

[SambaMaverick]

The mincing cunt quite rightfully got a right earful at FT and ended up doing a "no-look" clap.

The few who came over to clap got the same, especially AA.

But somewhat in his defence (I still think he should go) what I saw yesterday was players just not trying. Stoppage time came and went without us laying a glove on them or breaking a sweat. Rotten.

[Andy Hill]

So many crap players even at this level -  not sure even the great Sir Alex would get any sort of tune out of them. 

[Holmes_and_Watson]

Martin has made sure to say that he’s implementing a football philosophy that the club also want. He’s said this to defend his approach and to also divert calls for him to go at this stage. After all, if it’s what the club are fully committed too, we’d just get more of the same, seems to be the argument there.

It’s going to take a fairly lengthy run of defeats for him to be one his way. He talks about blocks of games, so will be seeing out this one at least.

He’s not wrong about SR’s approach either.

- Get in players on cusp of breaking through, and sell for a profit.
- Implement a consistent football style to support/ strengthen recruitment and development.
- Be data driven in development and recruitment.

A big one is their “results don’t matter”. It’s a project. It’s a philosophy to reach the above. If there’s data driven improvements, then eventually the results will go our way. With the large assumption that the data you’re using is worth anything when faced with real life football games.

Before the season started, there were quotes talking about projects and development over results. They were around the time there were quotes about it not being a disaster not to go straight up, as a reset was needed. Only after I heard that, did I hear more direct “the aim is to go back up” comments. Often without a time frame. Sometimes a “soon as possible.” Not much in the area of “considering our resources and confidence in our recruitment/ system we will expect our new structure to deliver an immediate return.” Which is what the likes of Leicester and Leeds look to be aiming for.

@Lighthouse made the good point that those two nearly stayed up, while we plummeted like a stone.

Rather that reassess their philosophy, or wonder why we were so abject, we’ve even more closely aligned ourselves to a philosophy. It’s now closer to being a man city light, but without the talent, discipline, resources or will to succeed as they have.

It’s another revolutionary footballing system, as if any of the traditional ones couldn’t possibly reach SR’s goals.

Martin talked about changes in mentality. When we go one down, it’s scar tissue from previous regimes. These are scars shared by the fans, which he’s taken exception to, calling it out a couple of times. When we go one up “There was loads of anxiety in the crowd because we stole the ball a few times, we scored off stealing the ball, and then just went passive – didn’t look after the ball, didn’t hunt the ball after that. It’s not a conscious decision, so we have to really look at that, really work on that.”

When their fans aren’t winning “their crowd really willing them on because they haven’t won yet." We’re apparently just critical, wouldn’t understand a process if it was delivered on a flowchart, and anxious based on previous trauma.

Not because anyone, including all of our opponents, can see all the ways we set ourselves up to lose a game of football. Which is on Martin and SR more than it is on the players.

[Holmes_and_Watson]

We didn’t see much of Baz’s passing skills on Saturday, just after he’d doen well in that department. If it’s something that’s changed, then we should be looking to bring in the one who at least has the most chance of saving a shot.

We changed some things defensively. As Manning was brought in for the initial style, he’s now less suited for this. We got rid of a better left back (who admittedly wanted out after being messed around by the previous system) during the summer.

Holgate had another nightmare moment. But I wonder just who was available for him to pass to, as our lines are miles apart at the wrong times in games.

Since JWP’s departure, there’s a lot less of this high possession with intent football. Martin is right that there’s no intensity and passivity across our team. But he’s the one coaching them on passing, intensity and shape.

If it can’t be implemented, then something else is going to have to change, or we’re going to be watching a lot of defeats.

JWP covered multiple jobs in midfield. We only have Charles as a DM. Downes is more capable of direct link ups. Smallbone is better further forward, but not as a 10. He’s best at cycling the ball through a midfield bolstered by our two inverted fullbacks, and with support from another midfielder. With JWP he had someone who could give all that support. Without him, he does some things well, but can’t take control of a game or provide any direct attacking outlet as Stu or Alcaraz can.

Up front we have a support striker with no one to support. Out wide we rotate a number of people, with Edozie being the only one so far looking to develop a blend of dribbling and shooting.

AA offers us work rate and cover. He’s got lots of attributes that the rest of the team could do with. But he’s not a deep lying midfielder in a three. He’s not a wide player either. Another stuck in yet another system that’s not going to get the best out of him.

Martin’s comment of “Then in the second half we were so on top, so in control…” borders on delusional. If that’s what his data is telling him, then it’s going to be a long time before it synchs with the reality on the pitch. Every team we’ve faced has looked more than capable of putting us to the sword. If they didn’t before, they all know now how to do it. Just as it was with Ralph’s teams.

I agree with him that keeping the same mindset through the game is important. I agree with him, and the players, that you should have a working environment focused on development and support. There are multiple systems and approaches to achieving that. Results, in the end, do matter.  

I’d prefer any system over that of Selles’ involvement with us. Having at least the chance of getting a goal is better than watching us sit back waiting for the inevitable.  

But we have lots of comedy tactical moments. Things Martin is happy to persist with. As @Conivct Colony said, we’ve actually managed to go backwards, the more of his system he’s tried to put into place. I still want him to do well, and for things to turn around. That this was a backward step, to progress faster. But if it continues, it’s going to be a wasted season, when Dragan should have been expecting us to be in contention for going straight back up. SR telling him otherwise is just conning him.

[Convict Colony]

"Football is a simple game complicated by idiots" - Bill Shankly.

[Saint Gifford]

49 minutes ago, Andy Hill said:

So many crap players even at this level -  not sure even the great Sir Alex would get any sort of tune out of them. 

I get what you are saying and yes some players find themselves at a level they shouldn’t be at. 
 

However seeing both my boys going through the football pathway, my eldest didn’t get to academy level , my youngest did at 6 years old.
 

Right place, right time, right grass roots manager, right scout at the right time. 
 

Yes some players make a lot of mistakes and probably should be dropped down a league or two.
 

But there are a hell of a lot of players that should be playing at a much higher level than they are. 
 

Only my opinion, but for the most part I do stand up for players and what it takes to get a professional contract.
 

The sacrifice the hard work the commitment, the disappointment the feeling of being cast aside and starting again when a coach or manager thinks they know better is really hard to watch. 
 

I agree there are so many pre Madonna’s out there, and I’ve not picked up on your post particularly, I’m sorry that I just happen to use yours, I’ve been meaning to mention this for a long time. 
 

To make it at League level you have to have an abundance of ability, and a lot and I mean a lot of luck. 
 

It’s unfortunate that when you land with a crap manager or coach that can define your career at that time. 
 

Maybe I’m too one sided towards the players but as Michael Calvin said amongst others. To make playing in the Prem is a one in 0.001% chance. 
 

Yes players need to take a hell of a lot of responsibility as they are the ones that ultimately cross the white line. But they are only taking direction from the bloke in the hot seat and the half dozen seats next to him. 

This is down to 100% the management / coaches and football directors and not the players in my humble opinion. 
 

 

 

[SaintBobby]

4 hours ago, Andy Hill said:

So many crap players even at this level -  not sure even the great Sir Alex would get any sort of tune out of them. 

Disagree with that. Our squad is comfortably top 6. Probably top 3.

[Dark Munster]

1 hour ago, SaintBobby said:

Disagree with that. Our squad is comfortably top 6. Probably top 3.

Absolutely, we should have been pushing for automatic promotion. Not at the very least making the playoffs is criminal.

Flirting with relegation is beyond description, fit for a judge to wear a black cap.

I've never been so furious about what Ankersen and his SR clowns have done to our club. Dragan ought to be too, and I'd be furious with him too if it wasn't his money they are pissing down the drain.

I wonder when P*rtsm**th will give Rasmus W. Ankersen the keys to their city?

[Osvaldorama]

6 hours ago, SaintBobby said:

Disagree with that. Our squad is comfortably top 6. Probably top 3.

Agree. Most championship teams would kill for the quality in our squad. That’s the first thing every single opposition fan says. Leicester and Leeds the only two with equal or better players. 
 

It’s all on the coaching. Absolute shit show. 
 

They have been coached to avoid running, creativity & common sense. 
 

They get outworked every game and as a wise man (Adkins) once said: ‘hard work beats talent, if talent doesn’t work hard’

[SotonianWill]

12 hours ago, FarehamSaintJames said:

People that think he was going to be sacked are deluded.

If nothing changes in the next six then I see early December becoming the month Saints start to look at options, before inevitably settling on another backroom member of the team. 😂

They won’t sack him now as they’d have to suck up their embarrassment and admit they got it wrong, again. But not doing so could cost us possible promotion. By the time this idiot leaves we’ll be nowhere near in with a chance. 

[SotonianWill]

11 hours ago, Andy Hill said:

So many crap players even at this level -  not sure even the great Sir Alex would get any sort of tune out of them. 

Sir Alex is overrated anyways, Warnock is much better UTS

[StrangelyBrown]

13 hours ago, stknowle said:

AND with the odd implied accusation that it's at least partly our fault. Seriously you could not make this shit up. I cannot CANNOT believe what a ridiculous shit show we are.

Let's not forget that we are treated like customers rather than fans despite the fact that the fans and the community are the fabric of the club.

[DT]

The trouble is, all the players we have at our disposal are those without any real drive or determination. They all appear to believe they're above all this. And that just doesn't cut it in this league. I'd rather we tried the kids - mystifying why we let Ballard out on loan. He at least would give it a right go, rather than the skill-less bellend that is Che Adams. We need triers, not mercenaries. But the playing system/style does nothing to encourage anything but trying to retain the ball until we inevitably lose it and concede. It is madness. RM gets no plaudits for bravery aka sticking obstinately to a system that doesn't work with the resources we have. I'd not call that bravery. I'd call that stupidity. Sticking with my prediction of mid-table by the end of the season, offered on day one, because Martin's sides concede too many. My mistake then was saying we would score loads too. Not seen that bit yet...

[trousers]

1 hour ago, DT said:

The trouble is, all the players we have at our disposal are those without any real drive or determination. They all appear to believe they're above all this. And that just doesn't cut it in this league. I'd rather we tried the kids

What makes you think SR's/RM's approach/philosophy wouldn't suck the "drive and determination" out of the younger players too in due course....?

[Mr Nimbus]

I really wanted this to work out, but I just can't see it doing do. Thing is we've put all our eggs in this basket.

I'm certain that with some decent (and arguably simple) structural changes on the pitch, protecting the defence a bit more and defending properly, this squad is easily a top 6 team.

I like Martin but he's nailed to his "system" and I think it will cost him (and us)



 

[Cabrone]

1 hour ago, DT said:

The trouble is, all the players we have at our disposal are those without any real drive or determination. They all appear to believe they're above all this. And that just doesn't cut it in this league. I'd rather we tried the kids - mystifying why we let Ballard out on loan. He at least would give it a right go, rather than the skill-less bellend that is Che Adams. We need triers, not mercenaries. But the playing system/style does nothing to encourage anything but trying to retain the ball until we inevitably lose it and concede. It is madness. RM gets no plaudits for bravery aka sticking obstinately to a system that doesn't work with the resources we have. I'd not call that bravery. I'd call that stupidity. Sticking with my prediction of mid-table by the end of the season, offered on day one, because Martin's sides concede too many. My mistake then was saying we would score loads too. Not seen that bit yet...

For me the jury is out on the players until we get a manager that can coach and has higher standards than RM.

When the manager has such low expectations of them you can't tell the slackers from the rough diamonds. A decent mgr would find out soon enough.

[Golac's Cunning Stunts]

anyone starting to think we need another league one on minus 10 before we get the reset the club obviously needs?

[Fitzhugh Fella]

I have just posted this on the match thread so apologies if this is your second encounter with my thoughts, this morning but Trousers recommended I post it here as well (if you want someone to blame 😀).

 

Just back from the game (I overnighted in Manchester on the way back) and here are a few thoughts. Apologies they are a bit late (and long winded), but I need to unburden.

I couldn't believe how all of our "new" signings have, suddenly, become so poor. Downes totally was inconspicuous on Saturday. The only time I noticed him was when he fluffed a pass which could have led to a goal had he delivered. Harwood-Bellis struggled all game, no pace whatsoever, hard to believe he is the captain of England U21. Fraser no impact at all, I prefer Amo-Ameyaw. Charles, having looked to be a really good player at first, has in the last few games become a shadow of his first few games. Holgate, well what can I say? First time I've seen him, describing him as being ponderous is being kind. Manning, when he came on, didn't seem to know where he was playing. He was everywhere he shouldn't be and no where he should be. No discipline. The yawning gaps down his side of the pitch were quickly exploited. It seems Martin's coaching is turning good players into dummies. Boro were utter garbage in the first half hour. The crowd were quickly on their backs and they were there for the taking. Although Armstrong took his goal well enough that was all he did, except run. He's such an ineffectual, ordinary player. I've been patient with him but have now lost it. Adams for a senior player was awful, too. Missed a good chance before our goal and he posed little threat whatsoever. And to think I was pleased he didn't leave. Give me Ballard any day or any other promising youngster. Smallbone I watched closely. He glides effortlessly and looks classy without delivering much. He should have scored in the 2nd H when presented with a good chance but he shot tamely and weakly at the 'keeper. It was the sort of chance that other teams always score against us. Walker-Peters huffed and puffed but made errors and his comical foul throw towards the end was embarrassing just when we had won back possession.

It was a cluster fuck of a a performance and I felt deeply embarrassed to be a Saints fan. I was a guest in the players' lounge afterwards and I sensed an element of pity among those I talked to. Quite a few couldn't understand how we had fallen so quickly. It was hard to explain.

I therefore spoke to quite a few current pros over the weekend, and the general feeling in the game is that Martin's sides are "soft" and he is not rated as a manager. I think we are all waking up to that fact, at the moment. Our players, on the day looked disinterested, half-hearted and were full of simple mistakes. Passes went astray all the time. The second half was so frustrating. Edozie brightened things up a bit and Sulemana injected pace and a bit of urgency but that was about as good as it got. We have severe problems all over the park. Goal scoring, midfield and defence - I wouldn't know where to begin, to be honest. We can't keep carrying on hoping, as if by magic, we are suddenly going to turn a corner - but the prospect of a fifth manager in less than a year is bat shit crazy and a sure sign of massive mismanagement on an industrial scale. Martin is I hate to say it.... a charlatan. I think he believes in himself and genuinely thinks he has what it takes but he sells snake oil. As well as the board, he has successfully duped Adam Blackmore, I noted, after the game, that while comparing him to Jones, he then was calling for him to be given "more time", but Adam, we will be serious relegation candidates very soon unless the rot is stopped pronto. I spent 12 hours in my car driving to this away game (and back) and had a lot of time to contemplate our predicament. Other than our relegation/administration season I can't remember being more depressed as a Saints fan. Even in the Branfoot days the players had fight in their bellies but that is now badly missing. We have been crying out for some leadership on the pitch but our calls have not been answered by the powers to be. Us fans are helpless to intercede, we are just bystanders watching a slow and inevitable car crash. We can only hope someone in SR is sensible and brave enough to smell the coffee and take a gulp. Otherwise we are in for a winter of discontent with the resulting damage liable to be long term.

[Wade Garrett]

Surely if ex-pros can see how shit Martin is, Wilcox can.

As embarrassing as a 5th manager in a year is, it has to be done.  We are going nowhere up the table if we stick with Martin.

As well as sacking Martin, I hope Dragan sees through Ankersen and gets rid of him too.

[Sidney Fudpucker the 3rd]

Is he still here? 

Our fans could learn a thing or two from Ajax fans about how to show the board their discontent. 

[Turkish]

15 minutes ago, Fitzhugh Fella said:

I have just posted this on the match thread so apologies if this is your second encounter with my thoughts, this morning but Trousers recommended I post it here as well (if you want someone to blame 😀).

 

Just back from the game (I overnighted in Manchester on the way back) and here are a few thoughts. Apologies they are a bit late (and long winded), but I need to unburden.

I couldn't believe how all of our "new" signings have, suddenly, become so poor. Downes totally was inconspicuous on Saturday. The only time I noticed him was when he fluffed a pass which could have led to a goal had he delivered. Harwood-Bellis struggled all game, no pace whatsoever, hard to believe he is the captain of England U21. Fraser no impact at all, I prefer Amo-Ameyaw. Charles, having looked to be a really good player at first, has in the last few games become a shadow of his first few games. Holgate, well what can I say? First time I've seen him, describing him as being ponderous is being kind. Manning, when he came on, didn't seem to know where he was playing. He was everywhere he shouldn't be and no where he should be. No discipline. The yawning gaps down his side of the pitch were quickly exploited. It seems Martin's coaching is turning good players into dummies. Boro were utter garbage in the first half hour. The crowd were quickly on their backs and they were there for the taking. Although Armstrong took his goal well enough that was all he did, except run. He's such an ineffectual, ordinary player. I've been patient with him but have now lost it. Adams for a senior player was awful, too. Missed a good chance before our goal and he posed little threat whatsoever. And to think I was pleased he didn't leave. Give me Ballard any day or any other promising youngster. Smallbone I watched closely. He glides effortlessly and looks classy without delivering much. He should have scored in the 2nd H when presented with a good chance but he shot tamely and weakly at the 'keeper. It was the sort of chance that other teams always score against us. Walker-Peters huffed and puffed but made errors and his comical foul throw towards the end was embarrassing just when we had won back possession.

It was a cluster fuck of a a performance and I felt deeply embarrassed to be a Saints fan. I was a guest in the players' lounge afterwards and I sensed an element of pity among those I talked to. Quite a few couldn't understand how we had fallen so quickly. It was hard to explain.

I therefore spoke to quite a few current pros over the weekend, and the general feeling in the game is that Martin's sides are "soft" and he is not rated as a manager. I think we are all waking up to that fact, at the moment. Our players, on the day looked disinterested, half-hearted and were full of simple mistakes. Passes went astray all the time. The second half was so frustrating. Edozie brightened things up a bit and Sulemana injected pace and a bit of urgency but that was about as good as it got. We have severe problems all over the park. Goal scoring, midfield and defence - I wouldn't know where to begin, to be honest. We can't keep carrying on hoping, as if by magic, we are suddenly going to turn a corner - but the prospect of a fifth manager in less than a year is bat shit crazy and a sure sign of massive mismanagement on an industrial scale. Martin is I hate to say it.... a charlatan. I think he believes in himself and genuinely thinks he has what it takes but he sells snake oil. As well as the board, he has successfully duped Adam Blackmore, I noted, after the game, that while comparing him to Jones, he then was calling for him to be given "more time", but Adam, we will be serious relegation candidates very soon unless the rot is stopped pronto. I spent 12 hours in my car driving to this away game (and back) and had a lot of time to contemplate our predicament. Other than our relegation/administration season I can't remember being more depressed as a Saints fan. Even in the Branfoot days the players had fight in their bellies but that is now badly missing. We have been crying out for some leadership on the pitch but our calls have not been answered by the powers to be. Us fans are helpless to intercede, we are just bystanders watching a slow and inevitable car crash. We can only hope someone in SR is sensible and brave enough to smell the coffee and take a gulp. Otherwise we are in for a winter of discontent with the resulting damage liable to be long term.

agree with pretty much all that. We have good players, Harwood-Bellis is raved about, West Ham fans love Flynn Downes, Manning people were saying he could play in the premier league when he joined and so on. But we are so soft, predictable and easy to play against. Boro are awful yet we were lucky not to lose by more against them, Martins excuse that we lost our confidence when we scored is quite frankly ridiculous. Like going ahead is a negative thing!! 

[trousers]

4 minutes ago, Sidney Fudpucker the 3rd said:

Is he still here? 

Our fans could learn a thing or two from Ajax fans about how to show the board their discontent. 

Does it involve waving handkerchiefs....?

[SaintLondon]

My major worry here is that I think it's clear that Russell isn't working, the longer he's had the worse he's making the players. I don't remember him banging on so much about scar tissue when we were winning. He's a rabbit in the headlights and I genuinely think he's scratching his head as to how to dig us out of this mess. But back to my worry, who do we turn to? If you're a high performing current Championship manager at the likes of Hull, Sunderland or Ipswich then even if the club allowed you to talk to us, why would you come to us? We're a basket case of a club and let's be honest, we have been since the Puel days. The only sort of manager that will come here is a journeyman which is a risk of course or even riskier someone we've not heard of from the Serbian second division. I don't want to be accused of bed wetting but I actually think we're in rather a dangerous / bleak position here, do I think we'll be relegated? No, I don't. Do I think we're (as it stands) destined for years of mediocrity in the Championship? Yes. Great fun this Championship lark. 

[Saint86]

1 hour ago, Golac's Cunning Stunts said:

anyone starting to think we need another league one on minus 10 before we get the reset the club obviously needs?

Only if you get another no nonsense ruthless winner like cortese at the reigns. Not Wankerson (or another hipster egotistical project man that won't see the obvious - even when it's slapping him in the face every game). SR easily the worst owners we've had in my lifetime... And I bet in his own mind, Wankerson still thinks he's responsible for brentford's rise and that what's happened here is the fault of everyone he's sacked so far 🤣😂

Edited 25 September, 2023 by Saint86

[DT]

1 hour ago, Fitzhugh Fella said:

I have just posted this on the match thread so apologies if this is your second encounter with my thoughts, this morning but Trousers recommended I post it here as well (if you want someone to blame 😀).

 

Just back from the game (I overnighted in Manchester on the way back) and here are a few thoughts. Apologies they are a bit late (and long winded), but I need to unburden.

I couldn't believe how all of our "new" signings have, suddenly, become so poor. Downes totally was inconspicuous on Saturday. The only time I noticed him was when he fluffed a pass which could have led to a goal had he delivered. Harwood-Bellis struggled all game, no pace whatsoever, hard to believe he is the captain of England U21. Fraser no impact at all, I prefer Amo-Ameyaw. Charles, having looked to be a really good player at first, has in the last few games become a shadow of his first few games. Holgate, well what can I say? First time I've seen him, describing him as being ponderous is being kind. Manning, when he came on, didn't seem to know where he was playing. He was everywhere he shouldn't be and no where he should be. No discipline. The yawning gaps down his side of the pitch were quickly exploited. It seems Martin's coaching is turning good players into dummies. Boro were utter garbage in the first half hour. The crowd were quickly on their backs and they were there for the taking. Although Armstrong took his goal well enough that was all he did, except run. He's such an ineffectual, ordinary player. I've been patient with him but have now lost it. Adams for a senior player was awful, too. Missed a good chance before our goal and he posed little threat whatsoever. And to think I was pleased he didn't leave. Give me Ballard any day or any other promising youngster. Smallbone I watched closely. He glides effortlessly and looks classy without delivering much. He should have scored in the 2nd H when presented with a good chance but he shot tamely and weakly at the 'keeper. It was the sort of chance that other teams always score against us. Walker-Peters huffed and puffed but made errors and his comical foul throw towards the end was embarrassing just when we had won back possession.

It was a cluster fuck of a a performance and I felt deeply embarrassed to be a Saints fan. I was a guest in the players' lounge afterwards and I sensed an element of pity among those I talked to. Quite a few couldn't understand how we had fallen so quickly. It was hard to explain.

I therefore spoke to quite a few current pros over the weekend, and the general feeling in the game is that Martin's sides are "soft" and he is not rated as a manager. I think we are all waking up to that fact, at the moment. Our players, on the day looked disinterested, half-hearted and were full of simple mistakes. Passes went astray all the time. The second half was so frustrating. Edozie brightened things up a bit and Sulemana injected pace and a bit of urgency but that was about as good as it got. We have severe problems all over the park. Goal scoring, midfield and defence - I wouldn't know where to begin, to be honest. We can't keep carrying on hoping, as if by magic, we are suddenly going to turn a corner - but the prospect of a fifth manager in less than a year is bat shit crazy and a sure sign of massive mismanagement on an industrial scale. Martin is I hate to say it.... a charlatan. I think he believes in himself and genuinely thinks he has what it takes but he sells snake oil. As well as the board, he has successfully duped Adam Blackmore, I noted, after the game, that while comparing him to Jones, he then was calling for him to be given "more time", but Adam, we will be serious relegation candidates very soon unless the rot is stopped pronto. I spent 12 hours in my car driving to this away game (and back) and had a lot of time to contemplate our predicament. Other than our relegation/administration season I can't remember being more depressed as a Saints fan. Even in the Branfoot days the players had fight in their bellies but that is now badly missing. We have been crying out for some leadership on the pitch but our calls have not been answered by the powers to be. Us fans are helpless to intercede, we are just bystanders watching a slow and inevitable car crash. We can only hope someone in SR is sensible and brave enough to smell the coffee and take a gulp. Otherwise we are in for a winter of discontent with the resulting damage liable to be long term.

I agree with all of this and it is very depressing. The only thing slightly in RM's favour is that even before he arrived we as a club have a very strong tendancy to turn promising players into shite, so maybe it is something deeper in the set up, and/or bad eggs stinking the place out/causing dischord. Hell, even Aribo was pretty useful when he first arrived. It's the reverse Midas effect, and will be an oil tanker or three to turn around. But a quicker way would be having a coach who concentrates on the basic, not reinventing the wheel so it is shit and square shaped.

[Miltonaggro]

1 hour ago, Sidney Fudpucker the 3rd said:

Is he still here? 

Our fans could learn a thing or two from Ajax fans about how to show the board their discontent. 

Clog the directors box?

[cloggy saint]

4 hours ago, StrangelyBrown said:

Let's not forget that we are treated like customers rather than fans despite the fact that the fans and the community are the fabric of the club.

Most fans act like customers. "This product's no good, I demand something different".

[Toussaint]

23 minutes ago, SaintLondon said:

Do I think we'll be relegated? No, I don't. Do I think we're (as it stands) destined for years of mediocrity in the Championship? Yes. Great fun this Championship lark. 

See how you feel after Saturday, we can be caught by the team currently sitting 20th this weekend, Stoke, who incidentally we play (capitulate to) after Leeds. Scary times. 

[kenneth_kenobi]

15 minutes ago, DT said:

I agree with all of this and it is very depressing. The only thing slightly in RM's favour is that even before he arrived we as a club have a very strong tendancy to turn promising players into shite, so maybe it is something deeper in the set up, and/or bad eggs stinking the place out/causing dischord. Hell, even Aribo was pretty useful when he first arrived. It's the reverse Midas effect, and will be an oil tanker or three to turn around. But a quicker way would be having a coach who concentrates on the basic, not reinventing the wheel so it is shit and square shaped.

Warnock is available.................

[Toussaint]

2 minutes ago, cloggy saint said:

Most fans act like customers. "This product's no good, I demand something different".

On that note I’d like my season ticket money back. I just don’t want to go anymore.

[hypochondriac]

1 hour ago, Turkish said:

agree with pretty much all that. We have good players, Harwood-Bellis is raved about, West Ham fans love Flynn Downes, Manning people were saying he could play in the premier league when he joined and so on. But we are so soft, predictable and easy to play against. Boro are awful yet we were lucky not to lose by more against them, Martins excuse that we lost our confidence when we scored is quite frankly ridiculous. Like going ahead is a negative thing!! 

KWP 

THB 

Downes 

Manning 

Adams 

A. Armstrong 

All of those players have played much better in this league than they are now. That's over half the team seriously underperforming. At least with the others and the youngsters, you could argue that they've never been in this league or shown much pedigree before. You're right that we are incredibly soft and just seem happy to let teams score or perform against us and sort of shrug our shoulders when it happens. What we would give for the equivalent of a Craig Bellamy, Lee Bowyer or a Robbie Savage. Just a nasty bastard who would get in people's faces and wind them up and piss everyone off. It's actually incredible that we've gone through another transfer window without addressing this. 

[Turkish]

10 minutes ago, hypochondriac said:

KWP 

THB 

Downes 

Manning 

Adams 

A. Armstrong 

All of those players have played much better in this league than they are now. That's over half the team seriously underperforming. At least with the others and the youngsters, you could argue that they've never been in this league or shown much pedigree before. You're right that we are incredibly soft and just seem happy to let teams score or perform against us and sort of shrug our shoulders when it happens. What we would give for the equivalent of a Craig Bellamy, Lee Bowyer or a Robbie Savage. Just a nasty bastard who would get in people's faces and wind them up and piss everyone off. It's actually incredible that we've gone through another transfer window without addressing this. 

There has been a lack of leadership on the pitch for years. People took the piss out of Duckhunter but he was right, a team of nice lads but none of them could grab the game by the scruff of the neck and turn it round. For years we've had teams who completely melt when the going gets tough. We're the team you want to play when you're out of form, either as a team or player because you know we wouldnt give you a hard time. Romeu had a bit of devil on him, other than that i'm struggling to think of a player we've had who the other team wouldn't want to face since Van Dijk and Fonte left. How hard can it be to find a couple of experienced players, in their early 30s who could give us a couple of years and help these young lads along with experience, leadership and game management? It really is incredible that year after year the club have ignored such obvious flaws in the squad and instead been obsessed with future resale value when we need a few players who can do a job now.

Edited 25 September, 2023 by Turkish

[Miltonaggro]

28 minutes ago, SaintLondon said:

My major worry here is that I think it's clear that Russell isn't working, the longer he's had the worse he's making the players. I don't remember him banging on so much about scar tissue when we were winning. He's a rabbit in the headlights and I genuinely think he's scratching his head as to how to dig us out of this mess. But back to my worry, who do we turn to? If you're a high performing current Championship manager at the likes of Hull, Sunderland or Ipswich then even if the club allowed you to talk to us, why would you come to us? We're a basket case of a club and let's be honest, we have been since the Puel days. The only sort of manager that will come here is a journeyman which is a risk of course or even riskier someone we've not heard of from the Serbian second division. I don't want to be accused of bed wetting but I actually think we're in rather a dangerous / bleak position here, do I think we'll be relegated? No, I don't. Do I think we're (as it stands) destined for years of mediocrity in the Championship? Yes. Great fun this Championship lark. 

Good points.  Since Sunderland Martin's eyes and demeanour have not been able to lie regardless of what he is saying - he's scared, rattled, and has no idea how to turn this around.  The players either can't understand what he wants and / or have no respect for him as a person.  He was appointed at a wealthy club recently relegated after over a decade in the Premier League, nothing like his previous appointments, and he is clearly in over his head.  Not a nice position to be in but RM needs putting out of his (and our) misery despite the damage to boardroom egos and what's left of our reputation as a football club.  If Martin is kept on we will be on a path to mid-table mediocrity and flirting with relegation, so right now it appears to be about damage limitation, rather like the appointment Hughes after Pelligrino, and then Hassenhutl once we could take a breath.  If I was in a position of influence it would be about bringing in a no-nonsense manager, a character, to stabilise with an outside chance of the play offs via our stupidly expensive squad - if nothing else this would expose who is worth keeping.  Then the club breathes and strategises for auto-promotion next summer.  It is shite, but it's where we are now and would at least give us something to cheer for.    

[Lord Duckhunter]

Steve Bruce made an interesting point the other day, regarding “process “ and how all the young managers now have a “project”. He used Vincent Kompany as an example. He said if he sticks to his principles and keeps playing the same way, Burnley will probably go down. But he will get another half decent job, most likely in Europe, because  Chairmen will like his philosophy, his “project” & the way he sets his teams up and how he plays “the right way”. However, if he becomes a bit pragmatic, abandons his style & keeps them up for a couple of years, his future options will actually diminish because he’ll then be associated with that type of job. 
 

Whilst Bruce clearly has “scar tissue” from some of his previous jobs & is a bit bitter, there is an element of truth to what he’s saying. These bullshit merchants ponce  it all up with flowery spiel & their pony around undertaking a project & the process which they promise us will work but takes time, and a lot of people fall for it. It’s the “emperor's new clothes", he’ll probably blag another job after this one, another project, another owner who thinks he’s reinvented football. Whereas his actual record is that of a lower league journeyman manager. 

Edited 25 September, 2023 by Lord Duckhunter

[hypochondriac]

9 minutes ago, Miltonaggro said:

Good points.  Since Sunderland Martin's eyes and demeanour have not been able to lie regardless of what he is saying - he's scared, rattled, and has no idea how to turn this around.  The players either can't understand what he wants and / or have no respect for him as a person.  He was appointed at a wealthy club recently relegated after over a decade in the Premier League, nothing like his previous appointments, and he is clearly in over his head.  Not a nice position to be in but RM needs putting out of his (and our) misery despite the damage to boardroom egos and what's left of our reputation as a football club.  If Martin is kept on we will be on a path to mid-table mediocrity and flirting with relegation, so right now it appears to be about damage limitation, rather like the appointment Hughes after Pelligrino, and then Hassenhutl once we could take a breath.  If I was in a position of influence it would be about bringing in a no-nonsense manager, a character, to stabilise with an outside chance of the play offs via our stupidly expensive squad - if nothing else this would expose who is worth keeping.  Then the club breathes and strategises for auto-promotion next summer.  It is shite, but it's where we are now and would at least give us something to cheer for.    

Absolutely. If this continues over the next couple of months- as seems likely- everything should be geared towards next season and stabilising us enough this year to keep us in the division and looking for promotion next year. The only positive with all this is I genuinely couldn't care who we get rid of other than it might be nice to keep Edozie, Stephens and She Charles who has some promise but everyone else can just fuck right off and start from scratch. We have one more chance next year before everything gets increasingly more difficult so we need to make the most of it. 

[Lee On Solent Saint]

29 minutes ago, kenneth_kenobi said:

Warnock is available.................

So is Frank Lampard. Frank Lampard's Southampton has got a certain ring to it, don't you think?!

[hypochondriac]

3 minutes ago, Lord Duckhunter said:

Steve Bruce made an interesting point the other day, regarding “process “ and how all the young managers now have a “project”. He used Vincent Kompany as an example. He said if he sticks to his principles and keeps playing the same way, Burnley will probably go down. But he will get another half decent job, most likely in Europe, because  Chairmen will like his philosophy, his “project” & the way he sets his teams up and how he plays “the right way”. However, if he becomes a bit pragmatic, abandons his style & keeps them up for a couple of years, his future options will actually diminish because he’ll then be associated with that type of job. 
 

Whilst Bruce clearly has “scar tissue” from some of his previous jobs & is a bit bitter, there is an element of truth to what he’s saying. These bullshit merchants ponce  it all up with flowery spiel & their pony around undertaking a project & the process which they promise us will work but takes time, and a lot of people fall for it. It’s the “emperor's new clothes", he’ll probably blag another job after this one, another project, another owner who thinks he’s reinvented football. Whereas his actual record is that of a lower league journeyman manager. 

Great post and actually very true. New managers have little choice but to buy into a project if they want to be given a chance unless they're a sexy foreigner. You'd be better off going abroad and having a go there if you're British if you don't want to get on board the bullshit train. One thing is for sure, you're not going to see the next generation of Mowbrays, Hughtons, Wilders or Warnocks being given a chance unless they happen to make a small club successful. Meat and potatoes football that gets results just isn't favoured by the supposedly intelligent football clubs. 

[hypochondriac]

5 minutes ago, Lee On Solent Saint said:

So is Frank Lampard. Frank Lampard's Southampton has got a certain ring to it, don't you think?!

I'd have him in charge over Martin tbh even though I think it would be a horrible idea to have him. 

[Zorba]

[Chocolate Box]

24 minutes ago, Lee On Solent Saint said:

So is Frank Lampard. Frank Lampard's Southampton has got a certain ring to it, don't you think?!

NO

[Lee On Solent Saint]

18 minutes ago, hypochondriac said:

I'd have him in charge over Martin tbh even though I think it would be a horrible idea to have him. 

To be honest, he probably couldn't do any worse. He must be on Ankerson's radar as he's pretty much failed at every job he's had, apart from a purple patch at Derby.

[Golac's Cunning Stunts]

2 hours ago, Turkish said:

agree with pretty much all that. We have good players, Harwood-Bellis is raved about, West Ham fans love Flynn Downes, Manning people were saying he could play in the premier league when he joined and so on. But we are so soft, predictable and easy to play against. Boro are awful yet we were lucky not to lose by more against them, Martins excuse that we lost our confidence when we scored is quite frankly ridiculous. Like going ahead is a negative thing!! 

I mean, it's like saying we were unlucky because the oppo went down to 10 men. Who would say such a thing 🙂

 

[Badger]

2 hours ago, Turkish said:

Martins excuse that we lost our confidence when we scored is quite frankly ridiculous. Like going ahead is a negative thing!! 

Has to be up there with Nathan Jones theory of being harder to play against 10 men.

Good job Middlesbrough didn’t have a bloke sent off, we’d have been in real trouble.

 

[saintant]

1 hour ago, SaintLondon said:

My major worry here is that I think it's clear that Russell isn't working, the longer he's had the worse he's making the players. I don't remember him banging on so much about scar tissue when we were winning. He's a rabbit in the headlights and I genuinely think he's scratching his head as to how to dig us out of this mess. But back to my worry, who do we turn to? If you're a high performing current Championship manager at the likes of Hull, Sunderland or Ipswich then even if the club allowed you to talk to us, why would you come to us? We're a basket case of a club and let's be honest, we have been since the Puel days. The only sort of manager that will come here is a journeyman which is a risk of course or even riskier someone we've not heard of from the Serbian second division. I don't want to be accused of bed wetting but I actually think we're in rather a dangerous / bleak position here, do I think we'll be relegated? No, I don't. Do I think we're (as it stands) destined for years of mediocrity in the Championship? Yes. Great fun this Championship lark. 

The problem we have is that the very clever Rasmus Ankersen believes if it aint broke it should be broken. Trouble is, we are broke and I've not heard what his solution for that is. I'm sure he'll have one and it'll be very left field.

[saintant]

1 hour ago, Toussaint said:

On that note I’d like my season ticket money back. I just don’t want to go anymore.

I think you'll find you're well past the cooling off period.

Edited 25 September, 2023 by saintant

[Gloucester Saint]

1 hour ago, Turkish said:

There has been a lack of leadership on the pitch for years. People took the piss out of Duckhunter but he was right, a team of nice lads but none of them could grab the game by the scruff of the neck and turn it round. For years we've had teams who completely melt when the going gets tough. We're the team you want to play when you're out of form, either as a team or player because you know we wouldnt give you a hard time. Romeu had a bit of devil on him, other than that i'm struggling to think of a player we've had who the other team wouldn't want to face since Van Dijk and Fonte left. How hard can it be to find a couple of experienced players, in their early 30s who could give us a couple of years and help these young lads along with experience, leadership and game management? It really is incredible that year after year the club have ignored such obvious flaws in the squad and instead been obsessed with future resale value when we need a few players who can do a job now.

What I find ironic is that Ryan Fraser was exactly that player at AFCB - Bellamy-like without the excesses. Why has he turned into a church mouse since joining SFC? Has to be the environment and culture is just so far off being competitive let alone winning. We will probably be told we’re lucky to be in the Championship next.