Russell Martin

[CB Fry]

People can talk about patience but you can also talk about Automatic Promotion which is what the aim was before the season started.

If you go back multiple seasons the rule of thumb for Automatic Promotion from this division is to keep defeats down to single figures. (It's extreme but Burnley lost 3 all season). Keep goals against below 40. We're clearly not going to deliver either of those.

Automatic promotion is over, already and it's still September. That is the extent of the absolute fuck up Russell Martin has delivered.

It's not "patience" to just hope that our goals against tally is going to be sub 40 when we are already at -17 a sixth of the way through the season. It's not patience, it's just hope. Which is fine if you want to believe.

We can still go up, but we'll have to do it at Wembley.

Edited 21 September, 2023 by CB Fry

[JRM]

1 hour ago, CB Fry said:

People can talk about patience but you can also talk about Automatic Promotion which is what the aim was before the season started.

If you go back multiple seasons the rule of thumb for Automatic Promotion from this division is to keep defeats down to single figures. (It's extreme but Burnley lost 3 all season). Keep goals against below 40. We're clearly not going to deliver either of those.

Automatic promotion is over, already and it's still September. That is the extent of the absolute fuck up Russell Martin has delivered.

It's not "patience" to just hope that our goals against tally is going to be sub 40 when we are already at -17 a sixth of the way through the season. It's not patience, it's just hope. Which is fine if you want to believe.

We can still go up, but we'll have to do it at Wembley.

I think Russell Martin knows that , you can see in his body language it's not gone to plan and he's struggling. 

When he had his moan about the "angry fan in the stands behind the dugout" and the players on the bench wanting to say something, I think what he meant was he wanted to say something, hearing a few home truths from the stand and he didn't like it. 

Fair play to whoever that was as the questions in the press conferences don't seem to be critical enough, doesn't seem like the board are pulling him up on it so someone needs to tell it as it is. 

[AlexLaw76]

Let's be honest, NO ONE...and I mean no one, not even the most loyal Sport Republic psychopath, believed for one second that automatic promotion would be over 6-7 games in.

 

That is the mess Russell "trust the process" Martin is 'cooking'. What is funnier, we are alarmingly getting worse. God knows where he will shoe-horn Ross Stewart into the side. But will be a funny spectacle all the same.

 

[Fan The Flames]

Patience is fine if it looks like you are building towards something, we don't. It's an indecipherable mess on the pitch and it needs a complete rethink.

Yes the season was about promotion, but for me it was about getting the buzz back after seasons of dross. I wanted the matchday anticipation back and the days after a win watching the highlights and reading stuff, looking at the league table, looking at the upcoming games, all that stuff. But straight away it's back to being really shit on the pitch and the feeling we have to dig in for another wank season, with little reward again. It's bollocks for a club like ours to be in this mess.

Edited 21 September, 2023 by Fan The Flames

[saintoaks]

18 minutes ago, AlexLaw76 said:

Let's be honest, NO ONE...and I mean no one, not even the most loyal Sport Republic psychopath, believed for one second that automatic promotion would be over 6-7 games in.

 

That is the mess Russell "trust the process" Martin is 'cooking'. What is funnier, we are alarmingly getting worse. God knows where he will shoe-horn Ross Stewart into the side. But will be a funny spectacle all the same.

 

Easy, move Che Adams out of the side, how he's still here i dont know, last season he scored two against Cambridge in the cup and we kept him, this season he's scored a couple of tap ins and then guess what, he's still here !! Just doesnt do enough for me.

[ChrisR]

After Tuesday I walked away from the ground having accepted that promotion is off the table and if anything we are in for a relegation battle, the tactics, the lack of composure passing out of the back gifting chance after chance after chance are exasperating to watch. To start with i could live with that as we looked like scoring but since the transfer window closed and certain players did not get their move they have clearly downed tools and going through the motions - which is down to Martin picking them / playing in wrong position and we dont look like scoring enough to win games - just like last season, possession up to the 18 yard line pedestrian and gives so much time for opposition to get their shape back and then we look around and think oh bollocks what do we do now.

I am not one for major over reactions but am already perplexed by the managerial decisions another who will not play players in their natural position which made them pro players

I wonder whose next on the Ankersen spreadsheet of doom

 

[Dman]

Watching Leicester Friday and last night, I cannot believe the gulf in teams, despite player for player being relatively similar in terms of quality. 

They're coached well, pass with a purpose and have a clear plan of how to score / win games. They didn't even have to break sweat against us, but a well drilled, sensible system with smart plans made them look levels above. 

I can only wonder how different things would be here if we weren't rejected by Wilcox man, Enzo and didn't have to make do with Rassmus' man, Martin. 

What a wasted opportunity appointing by martin 

[adrian lord]

I have learned that anyone in management that starts talking endlessly about "process" is usually dim and incompetent, and has to rely on "process" because they cannot think for themselves. 

Edited 21 September, 2023 by adrian lord

[trousers]

2 hours ago, CB Fry said:

People can talk about patience but you can also talk about Automatic Promotion which is what the aim was before the season started.

If you go back multiple seasons the rule of thumb for Automatic Promotion from this division is to keep defeats down to single figures. (It's extreme but Burnley lost 3 all season). Keep goals against below 40. We're clearly not going to deliver either of those.

Automatic promotion is over, already and it's still September. That is the extent of the absolute fuck up Russell Martin has delivered.

It's not "patience" to just hope that our goals against tally is going to be sub 40 when we are already at -17 a sixth of the way through the season. It's not patience, it's just hope. Which is fine if you want to believe.

We can still go up, but we'll have to do it at Wembley.

Nail on head. He's already failed by Sport Republic's own success criteria (i.e. automatic promotion). The question therefore is, why are SR persisting with someone who has already failed?

[Miltonaggro]

2 hours ago, CB Fry said:

People can talk about patience but you can also talk about Automatic Promotion which is what the aim was before the season started.

If you go back multiple seasons the rule of thumb for Automatic Promotion from this division is to keep defeats down to single figures. (It's extreme but Burnley lost 3 all season). Keep goals against below 40. We're clearly not going to deliver either of those.

Automatic promotion is over, already and it's still September. That is the extent of the absolute fuck up Russell Martin has delivered.

It's not "patience" to just hope that our goals against tally is going to be sub 40 when we are already at -17 a sixth of the way through the season. It's not patience, it's just hope. Which is fine if you want to believe.

We can still go up, but we'll have to do it at Wembley.

That's a thoughtful, sobering post to wake up to - I love the smell of realism in the morning!  The only current chance of recovery I think we have is Wilcox, so he's the one to watch above any PR about Martin put out by the club, see what he puts his name to.  The successful Blackburn side that he was a part of installed a savvy manager, bought a crop of the top players in the league (including two of ours) and then simply played them to their strengths.  A while ago now, but he is the sole Board member at our club who has the football knowledge to arrest the current slide, and that at some point he will need to intervene.  He will also know the longer we are outside the PL the harder it will be to gain promotion, and the rank stupidity of trying to pull the cart before the horse - promotion and then start the Sport Republic Man City lite revolution, perhaps.  However, another scenario is that he resigns whilst his youth guru credentials are still high and goes into a role at a decent Prem club.  I think Russell Martin is a thoroughly earnest, decent man, the opposite of Nathan Jones, but we are seeing very similar batshit formations and tactics, whilst blowing smoke up players arses when they need a fucking rocket.  It's likely to get worse.  My gut feeling is that SR will dig in and stick with RM to at least Christmas when the playoffs may look like a pipedream, if he's here after that we are going to finish in mid-table obscurity and a nostalgic look towards 2007-2008. What a fucking mess.    

[Daft Kerplunk]

4 minutes ago, trousers said:

Nail on head. He's already failed by Sport Republic's own success criteria (i.e. automatic promotion). The question therefore is, why are SR persisting with someone who has already failed?

I still believe there is a hangover from previous years inside the club, because there are still plenty behind the scenes who still remain.  Players are molly coddled and protected inside the Staplewood bubble, and then when they have to fend for themselves in front of a crowd, seem to fold like a cheap deck of cards.  

I, like most, was prepared to give RM plenty of time but fuck me does he need to find a way for a team to stop leaking goals and being so easy to play through.  So many in football now seem to feel like they have to justify their high earnings by making it seem like they are doing something incredibly complicated.  it's faux intellectualisation and it's ridiculous.  People like Paisley weren't busy because they were sat behind their laptops analysing inverted transitions, they were busy watching other games, watching players who might add to their teams, understanding character and adding to their understanding of a living breathing game.  Of course there are complexities, but that's mostly in human performance science to get people in shape but Joe Wicks is good at that, and he's no brains of Britain. Football is a simple game made complicated by people.

He's on borrowed time, with fans at least.  Sport Republic may just have yet another cock up on their hands unless Russ can be convinced that winning football is about finding solutions to get the ball from one end to the other and going in one net, and not your own.     

[dellboysaint]

What struck me on Tuesday was Martin’s body language. Hands in his pockets and trying to appear in control. He has lost any support he had from the fans judging by the supporters near me. Smallbone seems to epitomise him…neat, tidy but weak and ineffective. We have weak and ineffective leadership and need a manager like Tony Mowbray in charge so someone who knows the Championship.

[Dman]

On 17/05/2023 at 18:13, Dman said:

Agreed. Stick my kneck on the line, if we appoint him, it’ll end up a disaster. 

 

On 18/05/2023 at 11:13, Dman said:

If we appoint Martin it’ll be a lot of sidewards passes, loads of possession, look tidy but little to no end product, we’ll get hit on the counter and draw / lose as many as we win. It’ll be a disaster. 
 

You can only play like City, Barca etc if you have the players and creativity to do so. You don’t get those players in the championship. 
 

It does make me a little sad we’re moving towards this possession based approach this season rather than last, because Lavia would have been fucking phenomenal (even better) at it. 

I really (not really) hate to say it... but I told you so! 

I can't believe how obviously bad this appointment was going to be for us and we still done it anyway. 

[Suhari]

1 hour ago, trousers said:

Nail on head. He's already failed by Sport Republic's own success criteria (i.e. automatic promotion). The question therefore is, why are SR persisting with someone who has already failed?

From a statistical/historic point of view: does teh start we've made pretty much rule out automatic promotion?

[Dman]

3 hours ago, CB Fry said:

People can talk about patience but you can also talk about Automatic Promotion which is what the aim was before the season started.

If you go back multiple seasons the rule of thumb for Automatic Promotion from this division is to keep defeats down to single figures. (It's extreme but Burnley lost 3 all season). Keep goals against below 40. We're clearly not going to deliver either of those.

Automatic promotion is over, already and it's still September. That is the extent of the absolute fuck up Russell Martin has delivered.

It's not "patience" to just hope that our goals against tally is going to be sub 40 when we are already at -17 a sixth of the way through the season. It's not patience, it's just hope. Which is fine if you want to believe.

We can still go up, but we'll have to do it at Wembley.

Its an interesting point... I can't believe that any of those clubs who've conceded sub 40 goals had 9 of those conceded in 2 games, so theoretically, we could conceded more than 40 and it not be that much of a determine.  On the assumption we over achieved for the rest of the season in front of goal - isn't going to happen. 

But I agree, we've fucked up any chance of automatic promotion already and it was clear as day we wouldn't go up under Mr 10th Martin when we first appointed him. 

[Toussaint]

I understand the reasons he wouldn't, but Russell seems a really decent bloke, I wonder if it will get too much for him (I think it already has), and he'll walk away?

Its not his fault he was appointed, he was nowhere ready for it, he may never be ready for a job like this. Bit that can also be said for the previous 2 appointments.  

[Mr X]

2 minutes ago, Toussaint said:

I understand the reasons he wouldn't, but Russell seems a really decent bloke, I wonder if it will get too much for him (I think it already has), and he'll walk away?

Its not his fault he was appointed, he was nowhere ready for it, he may never be ready for a job like this. Bit that can also be said for the previous 2 appointments.  

Exactly so why didn't we go for someone with a proven way of playing someone with track record in achieving promotion? Or at least a track record of moulding a cohesive and competitive team in this league.  We are constantly going for the cheap option which sports Republic think is "clever and modern" but is actually awful and not suited to the players we have

Sports Republic couldn't give a shit about what league we are in or the performances it's just a buy player cheap sell on for more club.  

[Toussaint]

1 minute ago, Mr X said:

Exactly so why didn't we go for someone with a proven way of playing someone with track record in achieving promotion? Or at least a track record of moulding a cohesive and competitive team in this league.  We are constantly going for the cheap option which sports Republic think is "clever and modern" but is actually awful and not suited to the players we have

Sports Republic couldn't give a shit about what league we are in or the performances it's just a buy player cheap sell on for more club.  

You answered your own question, but I don't think its a cheap option, I am assuming we currently have 4 managers on the payroll, plus compensation. If we get rid of RM we'll have 5 on the payroll, its just absolute madness.

[Fabrice Fernandes no.1 fan]

47 minutes ago, Suhari said:

From a statistical/historic point of view: does teh start we've made pretty much rule out automatic promotion?

Burnley had 12 points after 7 games last season and we have 10, so in theory no, but they only lost 2 more games after that run, and only 1 in the first 7 (3 draws was their initial hurdle). Sheffield united had 14 points, and finished the season on 91 points, so only 1 off maintaining an average of 2 points a game all season. (

The season before that, Bournemouth were unbeaten in their first 15 games, and had 15 points from 7 games, but Fulham were more up and down, and lost 10 games across the season (they didn't draw many games).

The season before that was Norwich and Watford, Norwich had 13 points from their first 7, and Watford had 14.

Basically, we need to win a tonne more games than we're on track to, to even think about automatic promotion, and we'd need a lot of teams above us to lose form too.

That being said, 3 points separates 4th to us in 13th, so play-offs aren't out of reach if we turn things around.

 

[saintant]

2 hours ago, Daft Kerplunk said:

I still believe there is a hangover from previous years inside the club, because there are still plenty behind the scenes who still remain.  Players are molly coddled and protected inside the Staplewood bubble, and then when they have to fend for themselves in front of a crowd, seem to fold like a cheap deck of cards.  

I, like most, was prepared to give RM plenty of time but fuck me does he need to find a way for a team to stop leaking goals and being so easy to play through.  So many in football now seem to feel like they have to justify their high earnings by making it seem like they are doing something incredibly complicated.  it's faux intellectualisation and it's ridiculous.  People like Paisley weren't busy because they were sat behind their laptops analysing inverted transitions, they were busy watching other games, watching players who might add to their teams, understanding character and adding to their understanding of a living breathing game.  Of course there are complexities, but that's mostly in human performance science to get people in shape but Joe Wicks is good at that, and he's no brains of Britain. Football is a simple game made complicated by people.

He's on borrowed time, with fans at least.  Sport Republic may just have yet another cock up on their hands unless Russ can be convinced that winning football is about finding solutions to get the ball from one end to the other and going in one net, and not your own.     

Good points. RM knows he is failing and is trying to use the smoke screen that his methods are complicated and hard for the players to learn so it will take time. Quite frankly that is complete bullshit and is fooling very few fans. It's a bit of an insult to be honest as is this rubbish about scar tissue from last season. He's just making excuses and deflecting the flak he's getting because he knows he's been found out and doesn't know what to do next to extract us from the mess he's got us into. We look a shambles all over the pitch and there are no signs that he is capable of changing things to improve us. Unfortunately I think we're stuck with him.

[saintant]

47 minutes ago, Toussaint said:

I understand the reasons he wouldn't, but Russell seems a really decent bloke, I wonder if it will get too much for him (I think it already has), and he'll walk away?

Its not his fault he was appointed, he was nowhere ready for it, he may never be ready for a job like this. Bit that can also be said for the previous 2 appointments.  

If he walks away he misses out on a big pay-off. He won't do that and the big pay-off is the reason we are stuck with him.

[saintant]

38 minutes ago, Toussaint said:

You answered your own question, but I don't think its a cheap option, I am assuming we currently have 4 managers on the payroll, plus compensation. If we get rid of RM we'll have 5 on the payroll, its just absolute madness.

I think it's 3 rather than 4 because I don't believe we're still paying Selles.

[Toussaint]

1 minute ago, saintant said:

I think it's 3 rather than 4 because I don't believe we're still paying Selles.

Fair enough, but still not good, its like paying HP on 3 cars you daunt have whilst still paying for one you do.

[Fitzhugh Fella]

31 minutes ago, Fabrice Fernandes no.1 fan said:

Burnley had 12 points after 7 games last season and we have 10, so in theory no, but they only lost 2 more games after that run, and only 1 in the first 7 (3 draws was their initial hurdle). Sheffield united had 14 points, and finished the season on 91 points, so only 1 off maintaining an average of 2 points a game all season. (

The season before that, Bournemouth were unbeaten in their first 15 games, and had 15 points from 7 games, but Fulham were more up and down, and lost 10 games across the season (they didn't draw many games).

The season before that was Norwich and Watford, Norwich had 13 points from their first 7, and Watford had 14.

Basically, we need to win a tonne more games than we're on track to, to even think about automatic promotion, and we'd need a lot of teams above us to lose form too.

That being said, 3 points separates 4th to us in 13th, so play-offs aren't out of reach if we turn things around.

 

If the biggest word in the English language

[Lee On Solent Saint]

It's a shame that the local journalists don't engage in tougher questions for him. All too precious about keeping their access etc. Which I get, but it would be good for once if the managers got a harder time. Just seems little point in speaking to the media as it becomes the same regurgitated shit every week.

[so22saint]

3 hours ago, AlexLaw76 said:

Let's be honest, NO ONE...and I mean no one, not even the most loyal Sport Republic psychopath, believed for one second that automatic promotion would be over 6-7 games in.

 

That is the mess Russell "trust the process" Martin is 'cooking'. What is funnier, we are alarmingly getting worse. God knows where he will shoe-horn Ross Stewart into the side. But will be a funny spectacle all the same.

 

Inverted striker

[Lord Duckhunter]

2 hours ago, Miltonaggro said:

The only current chance of recovery I think we have is Wilcox, so he's the one to watch above any PR about Martin put out by the club, see what he puts his name to.  The successful Blackburn side that he was a part of installed a savvy manager, bought a crop of the top players in the league (including two of ours) and then simply played them to their strengths.  A while ago now, but he is the sole Board member at our club who has the football knowledge to arrest the current slide, and that at some point he will need to intervene.   

Based on what? 
 

He played for a team with a good manager, Jesus fucking Christ, let’s get Andy Cole in, shall we.

 

Nobody can fucking tell me Wilcox wasn’t fully on board the Russ bus. He’s part of the shit show. I’m glad you think he’s our only chance of recovery, because I fucking don’t. He may well “intervene”, but it’ll be for job preservation, rather than not thinking Martin was the man for the job. He was another smug wanker that thinks he’s broken the mould and reinvented football. 

Martin & Wilcox are two checks of the same arse as far as I’m concerned. 

[Miltonaggro]

34 minutes ago, Lord Duckhunter said:

Based on what? 
 

He played for a team with a good manager, Jesus fucking Christ, let’s get Andy Cole in, shall we.

 

Nobody can fucking tell me Wilcox wasn’t fully on board the Russ bus. He’s part of the shit show. I’m glad you think he’s our only chance of recovery, because I fucking don’t. He may well “intervene”, but it’ll be for job preservation, rather than not thinking Martin was the man for the job. He was another smug wanker that thinks he’s broken the mould and reinvented football. 

Martin & Wilcox are two checks of the same arse as far as I’m concerned. 

Based on him being the only decision maker above the first team coaching staff from a football background with a previously decent reputation to protect - self preservation. Other than that fuck knows. Think we may find out soon. 

[Osvaldorama]

It is truly unbelievable how dumb everyone at Southampton FC are. 
 

About 80% of fans knew Nathan Jones was an awful appointment. 
 

About 90% of fans knew RM wasn’t the right appointment. 
 

100% of fans knew the line up against Ipswich would end in defeat. 
 

Yet they are all so busy wanking each other off at their own brilliance they forget that real life is different from statistics. 
 

They do not value experience, character or the physical aspects of the game whatsoever so all the metrics that they use for scouting and recruitment are completely flawed. They see who has good pass completion and possession stats and sign them whatever the cost. 
 

Fucking ludicrous way to run a football club. The only saving grace i have is knowing they’ve pissed all their own money up the wall. Cheers for destroying the club you absolute clusterfuck of bell ends. 

[OldNick]

8 minutes ago, Osvaldorama said:

It is truly unbelievable how dumb everyone at Southampton FC are. 
 

About 80% of fans knew Nathan Jones was an awful appointment. 
 

About 90% of fans knew RM wasn’t the right appointment. 
 

100% of fans knew the line up against Ipswich would end in defeat. 
 

Yet they are all so busy wanking each other off at their own brilliance they forget that real life is different from statistics. 
 

They do not value experience, character or the physical aspects of the game whatsoever so all the metrics that they use for scouting and recruitment are completely flawed. They see who has good pass completion and possession stats and sign them whatever the cost. 
 

Fucking ludicrous way to run a football club. The only saving grace i have is knowing they’ve pissed all their own money up the wall. Cheers for destroying the club you absolute clusterfuck of bell ends. 

I'm not sure they have done their own money, perhaps saddled the club with more loans/debt. Our owners are very wealthy but I don't think they have untold millions free to put into the club. 

 

[Bad Wolf]

15 minutes ago, Osvaldorama said:

It is truly unbelievable how dumb everyone at Southampton FC are. 
 

About 80% of fans knew Nathan Jones was an awful appointment. 
 

About 90% of fans knew RM wasn’t the right appointment. 
 

100% of fans knew the line up against Ipswich would end in defeat. 
 

Yet they are all so busy wanking each other off at their own brilliance they forget that real life is different from statistics. 
 

They do not value experience, character or the physical aspects of the game whatsoever so all the metrics that they use for scouting and recruitment are completely flawed. They see who has good pass completion and possession stats and sign them whatever the cost. 
 

Fucking ludicrous way to run a football club. The only saving grace i have is knowing they’ve pissed all their own money up the wall. Cheers for destroying the club you absolute clusterfuck of bell ends. 

If I were a billionaire and I'd messed a club up this much but I came on here and saw this, I'd just keep going the way I was and mess it up a little more out of spite.

[Toussaint]

5 minutes ago, Bad Wolf said:

If I were a billionaire and I'd messed a club up this much but I came on here and saw this, I'd just keep going the way I was and mess it up a little more out of spite.

never mind all of that, what did you have for lunch today?

[Dman]

1 hour ago, Lord Duckhunter said:

Based on what? 
 

He played for a team with a good manager, Jesus fucking Christ, let’s get Andy Cole in, shall we.

 

Nobody can fucking tell me Wilcox wasn’t fully on board the Russ bus. He’s part of the shit show. I’m glad you think he’s our only chance of recovery, because I fucking don’t. He may well “intervene”, but it’ll be for job preservation, rather than not thinking Martin was the man for the job. He was another smug wanker that thinks he’s broken the mould and reinvented football. 

Martin & Wilcox are two checks of the same arse as far as I’m concerned. 

I'm not so sure Martin is Wilcox man, if i'm honest. 

I suspect Wilcox has set the direction of the club (i.e possession based), but Wilcox man was Enzo. He rejected us, so I think we went back to Rassmus trendy algorithm. Obviously Martin would score high if we were looking at possession stats. 

I'm fairly sure I saw somewhere that Martin was high up the list when we appointed Jones... before Wilcox was here. 

I will judge him on results, but I think Wilcox done a decent job in the transfer market, if i'm honest. 

Edited 21 September, 2023 by Dman

[pimpin4rizeal]

4 hours ago, trousers said:

Nail on head. He's already failed by Sport Republic's own success criteria (i.e. automatic promotion). The question therefore is, why are SR persisting with someone who has already failed?

Why is everyone talking like automatic promotion is already over ?? We lost 3 games .. still plenty of time if we pick up and get a consistent run going 

[Dman]

Just now, pimpin4rizeal said:

Why is everyone talking like automatic promotion is already over ?? We lost 3 games .. still plenty of time if we pick up and get a consistent run going 

Because we've been really poor for the first 7 games and absolutely nothing suggests Russel Martin is capable to making a team promotion worthy. 

[Turkish]

23 minutes ago, Bad Wolf said:

If I were a billionaire and I'd messed a club up this much but I came on here and saw this, I'd just keep going the way I was and mess it up a little more out of spite.

That's one of the reasons why you aren't a billionaire i suspect.

[disconnect]

I wouldnt write him off just yet, after 3 bad results. Whilst he's picked some fairly dodgy lineups(!), this hasn't been helped by half of them being new to the team (either being thrown in or seemingly held back after being thrown in - see Holgate), and some of our better players being injured (Alcaraz, Sulemana, Bedders and Stephens). Hopefully Charles playing centre back is over now we've got Janny B back fit, Holgate getting upto speed and Harwood-Bellis playing, and we can move Charles into a proper defensive midfielder position, drop Smallengine (in honour of his top speed of around 7mph) and get Sulemana starting games with Stewart up front in the hopefully not too distant future. 

Hopefully he's seen the full back positions arent working great, and getting that right in the system is quite vital, we need to be solid, whilst getting the ball to players who will make things happen (Alcaraz, Sulemana and Edozie), giving Adams or Stewart some good opportunities to put the ball in the net, whilst all 3 of those will be chipping in with goals. He obviously has to play them to make this work though!

We all want him to succeed right?

[Chez]

4 hours ago, Suhari said:

From a statistical/historic point of view: does teh start we've made pretty much rule out automatic promotion?

Here's the results of the first seven games of the promoted teams over the last ten years:

2022/23
Burnley w3 d3 L1
Sheff Utd  w4 d2 L1

21/22
Fulham w5 D1 L1
Bournemouth W4 D3

20/21
Norwich w4 D1 L2
Watford w4 D2 L1

19/20
Leeds w5 D1 L1
West Brom w3 D4

18/19
Norwich w2 d2 L3
Sheff Utd w4 L3

17/18
Wolves w4 D2 L1
Cardiff w5 D1 L1

16/17
Newcastle w5 L2
Brighton w3 d2 L2

15/16
Burnley w4 D2 L1
Boro w4 d2 L1

14/15
Bournemouth w2 d2 L3
Watford w5 l2

13/14
Leicester w5 D1 L1
Burnley w4 d2 L1

Edited 21 September, 2023 by Chez

[Long Shot]

31 minutes ago, pimpin4rizeal said:

Why is everyone talking like automatic promotion is already over ?? We lost 3 games .. still plenty of time if we pick up and get a consistent run going 

Have you seen the manner of those 3 defeats (actually it’s 4 but everyone seems to be disregarding the debacle at Gillingham)? Three inept performances on the bounce, some delusional statements in the after match interviews and a dodgy track record suggests to me we are roughly in the appropriate League position (13th). Yes it’s early days but the odds are stacking up against. 

[Doctoroncall]

3 hours ago, Dman said:

Its an interesting point... I can't believe that any of those clubs who've conceded sub 40 goals had 9 of those conceded in 2 games, so theoretically, we could conceded more than 40 and it not be that much of a determine.  On the assumption we over achieved for the rest of the season in front of goal - isn't going to happen. 

But I agree, we've fucked up any chance of automatic promotion already and it was clear as day we wouldn't go up under Mr 10th Martin when we first appointed him. 

Automatic qualification is not out of reach yet, it soon will be unless there is a significant change - attitude, performance, instructions or whatever combination. However I just cannot see it happening anytime soon. 
 

Some of the tactics are bizarre with ‘inverted’ fullbacks when space is required for passing. Time to make things simpler for the players to understand and perform.
 

This is Martin’s wet dream.  So far away for this team. 

[saintant]

41 minutes ago, disconnect said:

I wouldnt write him off just yet, after 3 bad results. Whilst he's picked some fairly dodgy lineups(!), this hasn't been helped by half of them being new to the team (either being thrown in or seemingly held back after being thrown in - see Holgate), and some of our better players being injured (Alcaraz, Sulemana, Bedders and Stephens). Hopefully Charles playing centre back is over now we've got Janny B back fit, Holgate getting upto speed and Harwood-Bellis playing, and we can move Charles into a proper defensive midfielder position, drop Smallengine (in honour of his top speed of around 7mph) and get Sulemana starting games with Stewart up front in the hopefully not too distant future. 

Hopefully he's seen the full back positions arent working great, and getting that right in the system is quite vital, we need to be solid, whilst getting the ball to players who will make things happen (Alcaraz, Sulemana and Edozie), giving Adams or Stewart some good opportunities to put the ball in the net, whilst all 3 of those will be chipping in with goals. He obviously has to play them to make this work though!

We all want him to succeed right?

Clutching at straws - every team gets injuries, suspensions and all the other set-backs that happen. We can't blame those things on the mess we are in.

[LGTL]

Absolutely forget about automatic promotion. 8 points off already and conceded 17 goals, it just isn't going to happen. The biggest of fuck ups from Martin, who is squirming because he knows he's already mucked up his big chance at management after *checks notes* finishing mid-table with MK Dons and Swansea....

What a monumental cock up his appointment was, once again. It's a fucking disgrace that we've conceded the most goals in this league after 7 games. 

[Suhari]

30 minutes ago, Doctoroncall said:

Automatic qualification is not out of reach yet, it soon will be unless there is a significant change - attitude, performance, instructions or whatever combination. However I just cannot see it happening anytime soon. 
 

Some of the tactics are bizarre with ‘inverted’ fullbacks when space is required for passing. Time to make things simpler for the players to understand and perform.
 

This is Martin’s wet dream.  So far away for this team. 

Good move that, but jesus - no effort to close down from the Utd players.

[Dman]

41 minutes ago, Doctoroncall said:

Automatic qualification is not out of reach yet, it soon will be unless there is a significant change - attitude, performance, instructions or whatever combination. However I just cannot see it happening anytime soon. 
 

Some of the tactics are bizarre with ‘inverted’ fullbacks when space is required for passing. Time to make things simpler for the players to understand and perform.
 

This is Martin’s wet dream.  So far away for this team. 

This is the issue for me. It makes us way to obvious to read and easy to press and counter against. That's excluding the main thing that KWP, one of our best players, is a very very good attacking full back, but absolutely cannot play in the middle of the park - not technical enough.

Move back to a more traditional back 4, with Charles in a holding role allowing full backs to push on, we'll improve over night.  

Also - Work on your fucking passing patterns. 

[Micky]

1 hour ago, pimpin4rizeal said:

Why is everyone talking like automatic promotion is already over ?? We lost 3 games .. still plenty of time if we pick up and get a consistent run going 

Because of the manner of the defeats, style of play and tactics that this manager insists on.   We were absolutely hammered in two of the games and then failed to get back into a 1 nil at home!  That would suggest that not only are we woeful at the back, but we are similarly so up top as well. We are heading one way, and one way only...!

[Weston Super Saint]

2 minutes ago, Micky said:

Because of the manner of the defeats, style of play and tactics that this manager insists on.   We were absolutely hammered in two of the games and then failed to get back into a 1 nil at home!  That would suggest that not only are we woeful at the back, but we are similarly so up top as well. We are heading one way, and one way only...!

Sideways?

[Elmore Saint]

<soapbox>

Why can't RM see the reality of the league we are in? The Prem is the place for all the high-pressing and high-possession malarkey. The Championship is where the Prem was about 30-years ago. Just look at what Ref's are letting go - we yet are still in the falling-about / entitled to free kicks premiership mindset. It's not going to work. We have to wake up and recognise where we are.

Think about the old Arsenal teams of the 90s. An old wise head between the sticks, couple of hard bastards running the spine and a solid striker up top. How many other Champ teams at the top end / recently promoted look like this? Most, if not all I'd say. 

We have some, but not all, of these elements on-board, but we choose to be all smart-arse and hipster-ball about it.

Let's get back to some basics Russ - starting with fitness, a basic shape and using players in their coached positions.

</soapbox>

[Mr X]

31 minutes ago, Weston Super Saint said:

Sideways?

Backwards for an own goal

[notnowcato]

1 hour ago, saintant said:

Clutching at straws - every team gets injuries, suspensions and all the other set-backs that happen. 

Most teams these issues do result in a drop in form, mostly that would be accepted too.  Over a season, unless you are exceptionally unlucky, these things even themselves out.  Feels a tad harsh to judge after 7 games.

[Lord Duckhunter]

2 hours ago, Dman said:

I'm not so sure Martin is Wilcox man, if i'm honest. 

I suspect Wilcox has set the direction of the club (i.e possession based), but Wilcox man was Enzo. He rejected us, so I think we went back to Rassmus trendy algorithm. Obviously Martin would score high if we were looking at possession stats. 

I'm fairly sure I saw somewhere that Martin was high up the list when we appointed Jones... before Wilcox was here.

If they had a trendy algorithm, why would it pick diametrically opposed managers like Jones & Martin. Did this algorithm throw up a front footed aggressive Brentford like outcome, followed by a possession based RussBall.
 

 If so, it’s a bit of a coincidence that we’ve ended up with a bloke who thinks he’s Pep. If Martin was a success I think I know who you’d be putting it down to, Wilcox. We’re a pound shop Man C, yet the bloke we’ve hired from Man C didn’t really want the pound shop Pep. He actually wanted the bloke that’s doing well at another relegated club, amazing isn’t it. Spin worthy of Alister Campbell.  
 

This is what the club said was his role when first appointed “responsibility for all football departments, including the men’s first team”. If Wilcox had said, “fuck me don’t employ that Lego headed chump, he’s a blagger that can’t set a team up defensively “,  do you think he’d be here?