Russell Martin

[verlaine1979]

3 hours ago, gecko said:

 

The theory of drawing the press is fine by me, it should leave bigger spaces in the rest of the field to exploit.

Drawing the press means having a back five who are all comfortable enough on the ball that they can evade the opposition as well as a midfield nimble enough to join in and create additional avenues of escape.

When, honestly, was the last time we had that kind of technical quality in our backline? Puel, pre-VVD departure?

[JRM]

25 minutes ago, Turkish said:

he could have stayed in Brighton and marred a nice transgender vegan lovely…

Fair play to him for not taking the easy path in life! 

When did we last have a spiritual manager who believed in karma? Glenn Hoddle ? 

[hypochondriac]

1 hour ago, Saint Keef said:

We've made a montage of Gav - Brilliant - that's going to sort it all out.

"We are consistent". Add "ly shit" and you're spot on mate.

"Social media is crazy". Well there's a fucking revelation! You'll find that if you're doing a good job it's not so crazy. If you are doing a shit job it becomes "crazy". If you know it ain't working you start blaming Social media. 

"I'm relaxed". Well you fucking shouldn't be.

"I'm looking forward to tomorrow". Well I'm glad you are, because I'm not.

"I'm happy with the work we've done this week". Yeah I'm sure the montage of Gav is wonderful.

He's starting to sound like Jones to me, believing his own hype (bollocks). Maybe it's just me, but he comes across as being right up his own arse. Never wrong. Not an awful lot of humility on show. 

I confess to being a Ralph fan, although in the end I had to concede that he'd run out of ideas with the players he had (and had allegedly fallen out with some) and I know he got some things wrong, but right now, I'd take him back in a heartbeat. 

I don't agree with that. He's shown humility and admitted to being wrong loads of times. Plenty to criticise let's not make things up. 

[hypochondriac]

1 hour ago, S-Clarke said:

I dunno, I think it's fair to have the same expectations as Leicester. By all accounts we were in a much stronger position financially than Leicester, who relied on loans and such because of FFP. I'm not of the mindset to sit back and say ''Oh well, we can never be expected to compete with Leicester, write that game off!''

They've managed to keep the likes of KDH, Ndid, Pereira, Vardy sure - but like us they lost a hell of a lot of first team players - Castange, Maddison, Barnes, Soumoure, Kristiansen, Tielemans, Perez, Evans, Armarty, Thomas, Mendy, Tete.

We've done well to get the fee's we have for our guys, they lost a lot on free. We have also been able to retain KWP, Adams, Alcaraz, Sulemana. Sure, it was never a foregone conclusion that we'd beat Leicester - totally possible we'd lose - but to go down 4-1 to someone I expected to be close to isn't great.

Indeed. There wasn't a hint of that mindset the last time we went up. We had an Ipswich mindset and wanted to go toe to toe with the best teams in the division. 

[whelk]

Neil Warnock available 

[egg]

1 minute ago, whelk said:

Neil Warnock available 

Any more 3 or 4 goal pastings, and I'd be close to being happy with a bit of Warnock pragmatism. 

[Yorkshire Saint]

1 hour ago, Miltonaggro said:

Whist being the most zen man in Europe...

Marred ? Probably not very pc.

[Farmer Saint]

I don't disagree that considering the turnover of staff and starting to play in a new way will take time to gel - in fact I've made that point over and over - the issue I have is that he doesn't seem to learn from mistakes, most importantly setup wise. Until we are comfortable with passing out from the back, we need an extra player and point of release dropped back from midfield. 

[saints-til-i-die]

His press conference was atrocious. The negative body language on show. Sounded very defensive. He flip flopped between being critical of the fans and then trying to soften his comments. Negative atmosphere… I understand why… not helpful. Then the random bit about some guy behind the dugout shouting abuse after the second goal and having to stop the players responding. What was that about? Unnecessary. He didn’t need to share that. 
He could’ve said that there were some passionate fans behind the dugout and that he loves the passion. He’s told the players they need to show the same passion and win these people over. 
 

The wheels are coming off his press conferences and post match comments now he’s under some pressure. I do see similarities with Jones. He seemed really pissy like it was all a bit of a bother to him to have to speak to the media.

I started off a little hesitant about his appointment but he won me over with some articulate speeches/interviews. He’s losing it though. It’s a worrying sign.

[Dusic]

Rather than just reading the shared quotes, if you listen to the whole press conference and the context in which he speaks then I found it to be pretty reasonable, honest and pretty strong.

At the end of the day he has been hired to change the style very significantly. He isnt going to radically change that because of a couple of bad results. As he says he can tweak it and try to get the playera doing what he wants better but what he wants will stay and it will take time before its natural for them.

The real question is whether we should have hired someone whose style is so radical. But that isnt a question for Russell Martin and he will just keep doing what he has done, which we knew when we hired him.

[saintant]

Just watching Monday Night Football and listening to them analysing how De Zerbi made tactical tweaks during the game as Brighton beat Man Utd. Brighton's two centre backs normally play narrow and high up the pitch when their keeper has the ball. Utd's set-up was causing issues with this so De Zerbi told his centre backs to go wider and drop deeper, they had a clip of him explaining it to Dunk - it worked a dream. This is what is needed from a coach and his assistants. Tomas Frank is one of the guests and it's an eye opener to hear the levels of intelligence and tactical awareness he and De Zerbi show. It's no wonder Brighton and Brentford are doing so well. Unfortunately for us it's another world compared to our tactical ineptitude. 

Edited 18 September, 2023 by saintant

[saints-til-i-die]

5 minutes ago, Dusic said:

Rather than just reading the shared quotes, if you listen to the whole press conference and the context in which he speaks then I found it to be pretty reasonable, honest and pretty strong.

At the end of the day he has been hired to change the style very significantly. He isnt going to radically change that because of a couple of bad results. As he says he can tweak it and try to get the playera doing what he wants better but what he wants will stay and it will take time before its natural for them.

The real question is whether we should have hired someone whose style is so radical. But that isnt a question for Russell Martin and he will just keep doing what he has done, which we knew when we hired him.

Not sure if that was aimed at me but I listened to the whole thing.

[Lymington Saint]

This season was always going to be bumpy.  We all knew that and expectations of automatic promotion are unrealistic in my view.  Huge turnover of players and not sure who would end up staying.  But there are clearly problems with the way that we are playing that need to be addressed fast.  Not sure that RM has the ability to adapt his system to fix them.  The next few games are key.  If we continue the way that we are then he will be gone fairly quickly.  Then the owners will appoint another muppet and we will go through the whole cycle again.

 

[saints-til-i-die]

Why do we keep employing people that over complicate everything. Ralph and Russell seem to think it takes ages to learn their style. Wonder if they’ve ever reflected on that. It took Swansea aver a year. 
Why does his possession style game have to be so different to everyone else’s? He seems to like telling us how different it is. If nobody else is doing it, maybe there’s a reason. Perhaps some managers think conceding so many goals is not the best idea 😂 

[Dusic]

14 minutes ago, saints-til-i-die said:

Not sure if that was aimed at me but I listened to the whole thing.

It wasn't, no. I think a lot of people don't bother to do that and then you certainly miss different elements.

You have a different view than I do, fair enough. Personally I don't see anything wrong with correctly saying there is a negative atmosphere. There is and as he says, its unsuprising. But its pretty clear that it doesn't help our team in certain moments. Totally understand why its like it is, but as he said its better for the players to try and ignore it because he wants them to do what he tells them and not Neil from Romsey in the Itchen Stand.

[Convict Colony]

I'm pretty sure Martin, his team and Wilcox know how to play this system and not concede lots of goals.

The weakness is both decision making and tactical discipline from the players especially when both our fullbacks are in the box on an attack.

The team need experience at playing this system with games to get the errors out, am expecting our 2nd half of the season to be 🔥 hopefully this first half we keep in the top 10 to give us a chance.

[SotonianWill]

The more we lose the less hair product Russ uses. His arrogance was always going to get annoying if we started losing, no different to Jones in that side of him

[Miltonaggro]

26 minutes ago, SotonianWill said:

The more we lose the less hair product Russ uses. His arrogance was always going to get annoying if we started losing, no different to Jones in that side of him

By Christmas he’ll look like Bob Geldoff! 

[JRM]

1 hour ago, Dusic said:

It wasn't, no. I think a lot of people don't bother to do that and then you certainly miss different elements.

You have a different view than I do, fair enough. Personally I don't see anything wrong with correctly saying there is a negative atmosphere. There is and as he says, its unsuprising. But its pretty clear that it doesn't help our team in certain moments. Totally understand why its like it is, but as he said its better for the players to try and ignore it because he wants them to do what he tells them and not Neil from Romsey in the Itchen Stand.

I actually think the fans were excellent against Norwich despite the set backs ,QPR a bit of frustration began to show but still got behind the team so it's only really the Leicester game where "negative fans" were audible which is hardly surprising watching the mess on the pitch masquerading as our football team. 

Sunderland away the players wouldn't have heard negative comments as we were stuck well out the way in the upper tier and most fans just left early rather than criticise. 

[Galway saint]

1 hour ago, Convict Colony said:

I'm pretty sure Martin, his team and Wilcox know how to play this system and not concede lots of goals.

The weakness is both decision making and tactical discipline from the players especially when both our fullbacks are in the box on an attack.

The team need experience at playing this system with games to get the errors out, am expecting our 2nd half of the season to be 🔥 hopefully this first half we keep in the top 10 to give us a chance.

you say that Martin knows how to play the system and not concede lots but at Swansea he played the system and conceded lots of goals. If you look at last season you have to go down to 20th to find a worse defensive record.

[CB Fry]

1 hour ago, Convict Colony said:

I'm pretty sure Martin, his team and Wilcox know how to play this system and not concede lots of goals.

Swansea - two seasons, goals against 64 and 68.

So you can be pretty sure that Martin and his team do not know how to play this system and not concede goals.

Wilcox not coaching the team so irrelevant.

Edited 18 September, 2023 by CB Fry

[whelk]

7 minutes ago, CB Fry said:

Swansea - two seasons, goals against 64 and 68.

So you can be pretty sure that Martin and his team do not know how to play this system and not concede goals.

Wilcox not coaching the team so irrelevant.

You need to be patient with these systems

[Turkish]

9 minutes ago, CB Fry said:

Swansea - two seasons, goals against 64 and 68.

So you can be pretty sure that Martin and his team do not know how to play this system and not concede goals.

Wilcox not coaching the team so irrelevant.

A system that when your player to give the ball away 30 yards from goal allows 3 attackers to be able to run unmarked, challenged or tracked half the length of the pitch towards your goalkeeper suggests the system might be the issue 

[maysie]

15 minutes ago, CB Fry said:

Swansea - two seasons, goals against 64 and 68.

So you can be pretty sure that Martin and his team do not know how to play this system and not concede goals.

Wilcox not coaching the team so irrelevant.

3rd seasons a charm 😳

[Baz Fl]

I thought Adam Blackmore asked a very good question about at what point or timeframe should we judge Russell Martin’s system of play. No one can argue that Saints fans don’t have reason to be worried about not only the last two results but also the last few seasons and if the atmosphere at St Mary’s gets negative after we conceded some truly silly goals who can possibly be surprised? My god we’re shell shocked and had two 9-0’s dumped on us. That said I can’t help but like Russell and the way he handles himself plus the idea of yet another new manager is embarrassing. He is not going to change his beliefs or system and was brought in because of those things so we can only take a deep breath and give him time to truly implement it. We’ve been through worse things and will come through in the end🤞

so no “Happy Clappers” or “Bed wetters” just Fans that really care about a team they love. 

[CB Fry]

20 minutes ago, whelk said:

You need to be patient with these systems

The Swansea players still learning it.

[CB Fry]

17 minutes ago, Turkish said:

A system that when your player to give the ball away 30 yards from goal allows 3 attackers to be able to run unmarked, challenged or tracked half the length of the pitch towards your goalkeeper suggests the system might be the issue 

He's trying to do something different that no one has ever tried before or something 

[egg]

Just now, CB Fry said:

He's trying to do something different that no one has ever tried before or something 

The genius tactic of pushing the best attacking RB in the league into midfield, and then pushing your actual midfielders god knows where, is definitely different. 

[Dig Dig]

Martin’s not going to change his approach a great deal so it’s really whether the players can implement quickly enough. Conceding 9 goals in two games at this level is ridiculous, clearly. But I do think he’s been unfortunate with timing. The Sunderland game was only hours after the close of the transfer window. There have been key injuries meaning we don’t have a settled defence. There hasn’t been much time on the training ground due to the international break and frequency of games.
 

But he could help himself immediately by sacrificing an 8 for someone who will hold. We’ve had no defensive minded midfield player for the last two games. It feels like recklessness over high risk/high reward. I actually think his slightly OTT public praise of AA is becoming a problem as he basically has to start him for the foreseeable, limiting options of firming up the midfield. 

[saintant]

36 minutes ago, whelk said:

You need to be patient with these systems

The opposition don't though do they!

[saintant]

15 minutes ago, CB Fry said:

He's trying to do something different that no one has ever tried before or something 

What, passing it to your own players?

[saintant]

10 minutes ago, Dig Dig said:

Martin’s not going to change his approach a great deal so it’s really whether the players can implement quickly enough. Conceding 9 goals in two games at this level is ridiculous, clearly. But I do think he’s been unfortunate with timing. The Sunderland game was only hours after the close of the transfer window. There have been key injuries meaning we don’t have a settled defence. There hasn’t been much time on the training ground due to the international break and frequency of games.
 

But he could help himself immediately by sacrificing an 8 for someone who will hold. We’ve had no defensive minded midfield player for the last two games. It feels like recklessness over high risk/high reward. I actually think his slightly OTT public praise of AA is becoming a problem as he basically has to start him for the foreseeable, limiting options of firming up the midfield. 

Maybe RM is too good a manager for us. Perhaps he should be at Man City.

[Turkish]

20 minutes ago, CB Fry said:

He's trying to do something different that no one has ever tried before or something 

At the moment it’s got more of the General Melchett doing exactly what we’ve done 17 time before is exactly the last thing they’d expect us to do this time, feel about it right now

[Weston Super Saint]

I'm more concerned by his habit of constantly picking at the grass, like he's a cow or sheep.

Maybe he had to trim the pitch at Swansea so he's just carrying on with us.

[hypochondriac]

Just listened to the press conference. It wasn't too bad but also clear that he isn't going to be ake any real changes, it's just about whether the players can actually play the way he wants them to. I fear they won't get it quickly enough (particularly the fullbacks) and fan discontent will grow before any success we have drowns them out. 

[Osvaldorama]

2 minutes ago, hypochondriac said:

Just listened to the press conference. It wasn't too bad but also clear that he isn't going to be ake any real changes, it's just about whether the players can actually play the way he wants them to. I fear they won't get it quickly enough (particularly the fullbacks) and fan discontent will grow before any success we have drowns them out. 

Or he could have learned some lessons and we could put in a good performance.

 

Some of the criticism is way OTT already. He’s not even had 10 league games. I think it was an OK press conference. He’s not going anywhere for a while, there’s no way SR will pull the trigger. So may as well back him and be positive for now 

[hypochondriac]

2 minutes ago, Osvaldorama said:

Or he could have learned some lessons and we could put in a good performance.

 

Some of the criticism is way OTT already. He’s not even had 10 league games. I think it was an OK press conference. He’s not going anywhere for a while, there’s no way SR will pull the trigger. So may as well back him and be positive for now 

TBF I didn't really say anything very different from you. I certainly wouldn't sack him at the moment but another drubbing with 3 plus goals conceded and it's going to get close to a mutiny. He will quickly lose credibility if we continue to ship goals and he continues to be laid back and say everything is fine and how proud he is of how far we come. The more games we get gumped in, the more ridiculous that attitude appears. 

[notnowcato]

Press conferences are nearly as bad as post match player interviews. A tedious, fucking waste of time, the only beneficiaries are the sponsors logos in the background. 
 

[musesaint]

It wouldn’t be so bad at the moment if we followed Kevin Keegan with “whatever you score we’ll score more”.

But we don’t.

And sadly there’s little prospect that we will.  

[Dark Munster]

2 hours ago, saintant said:

Maybe RM is too good a manager for us. Perhaps he should be at Man City.

Sounds good to me! The tricky part will be convincing City to do a swap with Pep.

[Lighthouse]

Between George, Brand and Martin it's been one heck of a s**t weekend for people called Russell.

[Dark Munster]

13 hours ago, woodsaint1 said:

That's some revisionism. You just need to look at that match thread to see the levels of optimism following that performance. We battered Wednesday and yes it took a late goal, but they barely touched the ball for 90 minutes. Plymouth away was another solid win against a team who hadn't lost at home for however long. 

I wrote "Apart from a last minute win against a poor Sheff. Wed. side, it's lurched from poor to appalling ..." which implies that was the one decent performance. So hardly "some revisionism".

@Harry_SFC 's post sums it up for me:

5 hours ago, Harry_SFC said:

The only game we've looked decent in was the Wednesday one and they were in turmoil. I'd imagine most League 1 teams would've beaten them. 

Gillingham was appalling albeit with a weakened side. Players played out of position and they clearly didn't understand the system. 

Norwich we looked ok going forward but horrendous at the back and needed a soft penalty to secure a draw.

Plymouth we didn't play well at all for 60 minutes and relied on a last minute goal to get the win.

QPR was a poor performance against a very average team. 

Sunderland and Leicester were diabolical.

It's true that a competent manager would've got more out of our squad so far. I don't buy this "we've got to go through pain to get to where we want to be". Why do we? By the time we've got though the pain the season will be over and we'll have finished mid table.

 

[notnowcato]

6 hours ago, Lighthouse said:

Between George, Brand and Martin it's been one heck of a s**t weekend for people called Russell.

Is that seriously a comparison you’re looking to draw here?? 

[Weston Super Saint]

39 minutes ago, notnowcato said:

Is that seriously a comparison you’re looking to draw here?? 

George Russell had a car crash, the Leicester game was a car crash.  Not sure what the problem is.

[Give it to Ron]

Don’t believe anyone wants him to fail, I was very unsure about him but could see the progress at start and we finally had a game plan but that’s gone tits up.

The problem now is he doesn’t seem to do the basics of football and jeopardises the reasons for those to play this mad system. Just watch KWP first 15 against Leicester it was madness leaving that space and others being drawn over.

You can stick your inverted full backs up your arse Russell 4-4 fking 2 or at least 4-2-3-1 the front 4 have enough ability in this league.

Change or we pay the consequences it’s simple we cannot continue to ship goals under this system. Tinker it and we will be fine.

Who else would leave a massive gap between forwards and defenders with no midfield anywhere.

Edited 19 September, 2023 by Give it to Ron

[Farmer Saint]

1 hour ago, notnowcato said:

Is that seriously a comparison you’re looking to draw here?? 

It was a joke mate, and to be fair I have to agree that Russell Brand's new show on Channel 4 wasn't very funny. 

Made me very horny though. 

[Weston Super Saint]

1 hour ago, Give it to Ron said:

Don’t believe anyone wants him to fail, I was very unsure about him but could see the progress at start and we finally had a game plan but that’s gone tits up.

The problem now is he doesn’t seem to do the basics of football and jeopardises the reasons for those to play this mad system. Just watch KWP first 15 against Leicester it was madness leaving that space and others being drawn over.

You can stick your inverted full backs up your arse Russell 4-4 fking 2 or at least 4-2-3-1 the front 4 have enough ability in this league.

Change or we pay the consequences it’s simple we cannot continue to ship goals under this system. Tinker it and we will be fine.

Who else would leave a massive gap between forwards and defenders with no midfield anywhere.

Ralph, Nathan, Ruben, apparently.

[trousers]

9 hours ago, Lighthouse said:

Between George, Brand and Martin it's been one heck of a s**t weekend for people called Russell.

 

3 hours ago, notnowcato said:

Is that seriously a comparison you’re looking to draw here?? 

 

2 hours ago, Weston Super Saint said:

George Russell had a car crash, the Leicester game was a car crash.  Not sure what the problem is.

 

2 hours ago, Farmer Saint said:

It was a joke mate, and to be fair I have to agree that Russell Brand's new show on Channel 4 wasn't very funny. 

Made me very horny though. 

 

Some heartening 'Russell' news just for balance... https://paradepets.com/pet-news/jack-russell-kittens

[trousers]

P.s. what do you call a man with a pile of leaves on his head?

[Turkish]

27 minutes ago, trousers said:

P.s. what do you call a man with a pile of leaves on his head?

Martin?