Russell Martin

[Convict Colony]

This is what we need to copy from brighton.

https://twitter.com/TheSecretScout_/status/1703445354153120050?s=20

Edited 17 September, 2023 by Convict Colony

[JRM]

26 minutes ago, Convict Colony said:

This is what we need to copy from brighton.

https://twitter.com/TheSecretScout_/status/1703445354153120050?s=20

United jogging around with minimal effort to win the ball though, very poor from them. 

[Sergei Gotsmanov]

2 hours ago, Saint Fan CaM said:

More like he gave it everything he had and came up short. It was only a matter of time before he relegated us - in fact it’s not untrue to say he set us up for relegation, but that’s only because the Board faffed around so long giving him a long stretch of rope to hang himself.

I think they gambled on not getting a striker in when Che Adams scored two at Leicester thinking we had enough and underestimated the loss of Oriel Romeu. 

I liked Ralph even more after Adam Blackmore's comments on him. 

[Monk]

Playing out from the back/through the thirds:

Observation from Brighton's ball possession and progression against our own. Brighton move the ball at all times, there's no delay on the 5 yard passes, running with the ball, it's constantly moving and shifting the point of attack. These five yard passes/dribbles constantly allow for Brighton to seek progressive passes, regardless of their location in the pitch. So the out of possession team are always adjusting, whether it's by pressing or shift their block across the columns to follow the ball. All of their final third attacks are 'explosive' almost an attitude of commitment to creating a goalscoring opportunity. Runs to support and those of decoy are done at top speed and with numbers, the ball is zipped in and patterns happen quickly, not passively... unlike our own. It's almost as if their playing philosophy is 'see it, do it'. 

When RM's Saints have the ball in our third, we look to draw the press directly to the ball carrier by delaying the pass, whose intention is to shift and then play through the press. The problem this causes is if the press reads our intended pass (usually intended for a showing CM), the press usually dictates the location of our next phase which is now a player being occupied by his pressing counterpart. This is a result of the initial pass being constantly delayed and the pressing team having the time to suffocate our passing options with numbers (wouldn't happen as much if we moved the ball quicker). Our playing philosophy sometimes feels like 'see it but don't do it as they've seen it too'. 

As for our general out of possession model, we are so easy to play against 'between the lines' and if you add in the fact we can't deal with overloads/runners we're a recipe for disaster against teams that attack with numbers and speed. 

Some defensive stats of interest (be careful with stats, not always contextual):

Gav has faced 32 shots and conceded 15 goals, that's a goal every other shot he faces. 

KWP's current defensive stats have him averaging just one interception every 90 minutes, and Saints conceding a goal every 38 minutes he's played, surprisingly his ground duals won are high (not what I was originally forecasting). 

Ryan Manning... stats are inconsistently captured but one website has him only winning 1 out of 3 defensive duals so far. 

Edited 17 September, 2023 by Monk

[Toussaint]

4 hours ago, AlexLaw76 said:

 

He’s been got at by the S R Stasi 

 

[notnowcato]

9 hours ago, Sheaf Saint said:

We failed to keep the ball because they knew exactly where and when to press our players into making a mistake. The goal after 21 seconds highlights that.

and if most formations would have been sufficient then it just shows even more that our tactics are shit and can be out overcome by anyone with basic competence.

It’s not tactics, it’s elementary errors in ball possession. 

[JRM]

8 minutes ago, notnowcato said:

It’s not tactics, it’s elementary errors in ball possession. 

Which get punished due to the tactics resulting in defensive players being miles out of position when we lose the ball 

[saintant]

2 hours ago, Convict Colony said:

This is what we need to copy from brighton.

https://twitter.com/TheSecretScout_/status/1703445354153120050?s=20

Haven't seen that goal before. That is so embarrassing for Utd - made no attempt to close down. Good from Brighton but few teams in the Premier League would allow that.

[saintant]

1 hour ago, Monk said:

Playing out from the back/through the thirds:

Observation from Brighton's ball possession and progression against our own. Brighton move the ball at all times, there's no delay on the 5 yard passes, running with the ball, it's constantly moving and shifting the point of attack. These five yard passes/dribbles constantly allow for Brighton to seek progressive passes, regardless of their location in the pitch. So the out of possession team are always adjusting, whether it's by pressing or shift their block across the columns to follow the ball. All of their final third attacks are 'explosive' almost an attitude of commitment to creating a goalscoring opportunity. Runs to support and those of decoy are done at top speed and with numbers, the ball is zipped in and patterns happen quickly, not passively... unlike our own. It's almost as if their playing philosophy is 'see it, do it'. 

When RM's Saints have the ball in our third, we look to draw the press directly to the ball carrier by delaying the pass, whose intention is to shift and then play through the press. The problem this causes is if the press reads our intend pass (usually intended for a showing CM), the press usually dictates the location of our next phase which is now a player being occupied by a his pressing counterpart. This is a result of the initial pass being constantly delayed and the pressing team having the time to suffocate our passing options with numbers (wouldn't happen as much if we moved the ball quicker). Our playing philosophy sometimes feels like 'see it but don't do it as they've seen it too'. 

As for our general out of possession model, we are so easy to play against 'between the lines' and if you add in the fact we can't deal with overloads/runners we're a recipe for disaster against teams that attack with numbers and speed. 

Some defensive stats of interest (be careful with stats, not always contextual):

Gav has faced 32 shots and conceded 15 goals, that's a goal every other shot he faces. 

KWP's current defensive stats have him averaging just one interception every 90 minutes, and Saints conceding a goal every 38 minutes he's played, surprisingly his ground duals won are high (not what I was originally forecasting). 

Ryan Manning... stats are inconsistently captured but one website has him only winning 1 out of 3 defensive duals so far. 

Some very good points there especially about how slow we are which just invites our opponents to press. How RM fails to see that we need to quicken everything up is beyond me. Walking football is for 50 year old men.

[Sheaf Saint]

2 hours ago, notnowcato said:

It’s not tactics, it’s elementary errors in ball possession. 

So having watched us get carved open at will by both Sunderland and Leicester, and conceding 9 goals, do you honestly think it's just down to individual errors and there's nothing wrong with the tactics?

Errors in possession can be got away with if you have an organised defensive shape giving sufficient cover. When they are being punished so frequently, and a misplaced pass from a corner can lead to a 3 on 1 against the keeper with not a single defender within 10 yards of them, then you cannot put that down to simply being sloppy on the ball. 

Edited 17 September, 2023 by Sheaf Saint

[Charlie Wayman]

He has to go. The crap we are being served up is no better than the crap we've endured for the past three years. No way we are promotion candidates, if things go on the way they are we'll be in the  mix for relegation. 

[Dark Munster]

It seems the majority have had enough. Too early for a poll?

Apart from a last minute win against a poor Sheff. Wed. side, it's lurched from poor to appalling, with schoolboy level tactical errors.

Even before his appointment he, like Jones, seemed a crap choice, maybe even more so, given his poor record with the Swans. But even if he's fired (hopefully soon, but I'm not holding my breath with the muppets in charge), the odds are that they will appoint yet another smooth talking hipster piece of crap. 

Ah, but we've got Wilcox in charge, so everything's ok. Yeah right, wasn't he supposed to be the one who chose that pillock RM, or at least approved the choice? Not to mention saying we have a strong stable of goalkeepers. He may have been good with kids at a club with untold riches, but does that make him qualified to be a director of football of a whole club? We better hope so, otherwise we're f*cked. The signs aren't good.

[Osvaldorama]

I still think it’s too early for a change. He is trying to change the style of play completely and it will have teething problems. He hasn’t had much time with the full squad in training. Sacking the manager means yet another reset, change of playing style and to be honest makes us look like even more like a total basket case to any potential incoming managers & players. Plus as someone pointed out, every appointment that SR make gets worse and worse 😂
 

But he HAS to make us more solid on Tuesday. If we concede 4+ goals again his position is starting to look more and more untenable as this squad should be doing much better. 

[Galway saint]

13 minutes ago, Osvaldorama said:

I still think it’s too early for a change. He is trying to change the style of play completely and it will have teething problems. He hasn’t had much time with the full squad in training. Sacking the manager means yet another reset, change of playing style and to be honest makes us look like even more like a total basket case to any potential incoming managers & players. Plus as someone pointed out, every appointment that SR make gets worse and worse 😂
 

But he HAS to make us more solid on Tuesday. If we concede 4+ goals again his position is starting to look more and more untenable as this squad should be doing much better. 

but his style of play has never really produced a solid style of play - it’s one that ships goals 

[Osvaldorama]

6 minutes ago, Galway saint said:

but his style of play has never really produced a solid style of play - it’s one that ships goals 

Don’t get me wrong, I thought it was a huge mistake to begin with. Imo we needed someone more pragmatic and with experience in this league to get us organised again. But now he’s here… surely we can’t sack him already? 
 

But tbh if we concede 4 again I don’t see how we can keep persisting with suicide football. Massive conundrum right now that can only be solved by a good performance on Tues

[Harry_SFC]

You can see why his team's generally finish around mid table. This system is good enough to beat the lower sides who don't have as much quality in the final third but anyone with anything about them in midfield/up top will score goals for fun.

[James]

If we lose both of our games this week (with or without another 3+ conceded) then its tricky to know where we go next. 

[Dman]

13 hours ago, notnowcato said:

It’s not tactics, it’s elementary errors in ball possession. 

Aye? The reason we're making the mistakes is because we're making 5 yard passes on the edge of our box into midfield / no mans land. That is literally the tactics asked by the manager. 

That's not withstanding fundamental flaws in defensive set up (with and without the ball)

[James]

2 minutes ago, Dman said:

Aye? The reason we're making the mistakes is because we're making 5 yard passes on the edge of our box into midfield / no mans land. That is literally the tactics asked by the manager. 

That's not withstanding fundamental flaws in defensive set up (with and without the ball)

Issue is the way we are set up these errors are far more exposed. We give the ball away and the opposition has a clean run on goal. Is it an individual error? Yes, sure the ball was given away but the fact that some of these errors result in basically free goals is squarely as a result of the tactics.

[derry]

There is no defensive structure or discipline. Freewheeling in our own box or nine players in the opponents box doesn't cut it. If RM doesn't want to fix it then he has to go. It's in his hands. The mistakes in themselves are minor but the kamikaze rush to get forward in numbers unhinges us and leaves the wrong players at the back. I'd love to play against us at the moment.

Edited 18 September, 2023 by derry

[saintant]

55 minutes ago, Dman said:

Aye? The reason we're making the mistakes is because we're making 5 yard passes on the edge of our box into midfield / no mans land. That is literally the tactics asked by the manager. 

That's not withstanding fundamental flaws in defensive set up (with and without the ball)

Those 5 yard passes are a big part of the problem as, unless you have triangles of players ready to move the ball on, you just get smothered by the opposition press causing the panic we are seeing. If you watch the teams who know how to play out from the back most of the passes are much longer which changes angles and creates space. We pass out from the back without thought or purpose bringing pressure on ourselves just so RM can say that we are a modern team that plays possession football and builds from the back rather than playing hoofball. Something has to change and quick.

[notnowcato]

53 minutes ago, James said:

Issue is the way we are set up these errors are far more exposed. We give the ball away and the opposition has a clean run on goal. Is it an individual error? Yes, sure the ball was given away but the fact that some of these errors result in basically free goals is squarely as a result of the tactics.

My original point, possibly badly made, was countering the suggestion that the Leicester coach got his tactics spot on. He didn’t have too, we laid it on a plate for them with our inability to keep the ball under the slightest bit of pressure. 
 

KWP is an excellent full back, I doubt many have looked at him and thought he could play in midfield. The best inverted full backs are those that can receive and retain under pressure, classic midfielder traits. 
 

THB and Charles as CBs having just been introduced to each other following international break was brave to say the least, especially coming into a team that were subject to a drubbing the game before. Was Holgate injured? Removed from the firing line to such an extent that 2 youngsters were preferred? How does he come back from that. 
 

I really want RM to succeed as his football does have the potential to excite (in the right way) but maybe the players are not ready for the challenges being set.  

[Wade Garrett]

I don’t get this bollocks of it’s going to take time.  These guys are professionals, they know how to play football, and are fit.  The game is not the rocket science that Martin makes it out to be.

Move the ball quickly, and move off the ball to give passing options.  They should all know how to do that.

Martin is fucking it up with the ridiculous shape of the side.  Inverted full-backs, fuck off, total bullshit.  A midfield that teams are running through, fuck off, total bullshit.  Leaving us 1 v 1 at the back, fuck off, total bullshit.

His tactics aren’t ‘brave’, they’re fucking stupid.  If we get smashed again tomorrow, Wilcox needs to do his job and address the situation.

[woodsaint1]

10 hours ago, Dark Munster said:

It seems the majority have had enough. Too early for a poll?

Apart from a last minute win against a poor Sheff. Wed. side, it's lurched from poor to appalling, with schoolboy level tactical errors.

Even before his appointment he, like Jones, seemed a crap choice, maybe even more so, given his poor record with the Swans. But even if he's fired (hopefully soon, but I'm not holding my breath with the muppets in charge), the odds are that they will appoint yet another smooth talking hipster piece of crap. 

Ah, but we've got Wilcox in charge, so everything's ok. Yeah right, wasn't he supposed to be the one who chose that pillock RM, or at least approved the choice? Not to mention saying we have a strong stable of goalkeepers. He may have been good with kids at a club with untold riches, but does that make him qualified to be a director of football of a whole club? We better hope so, otherwise we're f*cked. The signs aren't good.

That's some revisionism. You just need to look at that match thread to see the levels of optimism following that performance. We battered Wednesday and yes it took a late goal, but they barely touched the ball for 90 minutes. Plymouth away was another solid win against a team who hadn't lost at home for however long. There's no denying that aspects of the other games were poor to appalling as you say, but we managed to grind out a win against QPR and a late point against a solid Norwich team. You'd think we'd gone 6 game without a win. Yes things may not improve and those calling for RM's head now will be rejoicing in a month or two, but to be calling for his sacking now is unwarranted in my opinion

[Wade Garrett]

2 minutes ago, woodsaint1 said:

That's some revisionism. You just need to look at that match thread to see the levels of optimism following that performance. We battered Wednesday and yes it took a late goal, but they barely touched the ball for 90 minutes. Plymouth away was another solid win against a team who hadn't lost at home for however long. There's no denying that aspects of the other games were poor to appalling as you say, but we managed to grind out a win against QPR and a late point against a solid Norwich team. You'd think we'd gone 6 game without a win. Yes things may not improve and those calling for RM's head now will be rejoicing in a month or two, but to be calling for his sacking now is unwarranted in my opinion

Don’t get me wrong, I want Martin to succeed, but I can’t see him turning it around while he stubbornly refuses to change his system of play.

 

[Lee On Solent Saint]

1 hour ago, Wade Garrett said:

Don’t get me wrong, I want Martin to succeed, but I can’t see him turning it around while he stubbornly refuses to change his system of play.

 

If things don't improve, it's going to get ugly pretty quickly. I can take losing games, but the manner in which we lose games and concede goals is just amatuerish.

[InvictaSaint]

1 hour ago, Wade Garrett said:

Don’t get me wrong, I want Martin to succeed, but I can’t see him turning it around while he stubbornly refuses to change his system of play.

 

I think this is the biggest concern for me currently. RM has stated, explicitly, that he will live or die by the sword he has created for himself. If that means he refuses to change or becomes stubborn to the point of allowing the same mistakes to occur, then as somebody above posts, it will get ugly pretty quickly. This is the one area I think he and maybe JW is not understanding - as a fan base we are not like Swansea or MK Dons; we have been very, very poorly served over the last 3-5 years at home in particular and have seen our status plummet. Martin doesn't have the luxury of time or earned patience. Thus, if tomorrow takes a similar path to Friday night I fear for his future. I want him to succeed more than anything; but he has to be a pragmatist as well as an ideologue.

[Dr. Kucho]

Whoever decides on Martin’s position has a difficult decision to make. Give him time to get the defense sorted and risk losing out on promotion if it doesn’t work out. Or replace him and have another manager on our books to pay off. 

I would give Martin another 4/5 games, but if we lose them and concede numerous amounts of goals replacing him (with an experienced coach who has a decent track record) would be the best choice imo. Our squad is in the top 5 best of the league and many players have PL experience. Any half decent manager should be able to reach the play offs with this group of players.
 

[tdmickey3]

1 hour ago, Wade Garrett said:

Don’t get me wrong, I want Martin to succeed, but I can’t see him turning it around while he stubbornly refuses to change his system of play.

 

Brace yourself for more of the same sadly, he wont change

[hypochondriac]

15 minutes ago, InvictaSaint said:

I think this is the biggest concern for me currently. RM has stated, explicitly, that he will live or die by the sword he has created for himself. If that means he refuses to change or becomes stubborn to the point of allowing the same mistakes to occur, then as somebody above posts, it will get ugly pretty quickly. This is the one area I think he and maybe JW is not understanding - as a fan base we are not like Swansea or MK Dons; we have been very, very poorly served over the last 3-5 years at home in particular and have seen our status plummet. Martin doesn't have the luxury of time or earned patience. Thus, if tomorrow takes a similar path to Friday night I fear for his future. I want him to succeed more than anything; but he has to be a pragmatist as well as an ideologue.

Yep. If we employ the same tactics tomorrow and we are two plus down at half time then I can imagine a number in the crowd flying off the handle and starting to give some abuse to the manager. It's one thing to lose, but quite another to get hammered with nonsensical tactics whilst refusing to change the setup (if we don't change the role of the wingbacks then I think that's going to cause some major friction when they inevitably give goals away again.)

[bpsaint]

1 hour ago, Wade Garrett said:

I don’t get this bollocks of it’s going to take time.  These guys are professionals, they know how to play football, and are fit.  The game is not the rocket science that Martin makes it out to be.

Move the ball quickly, and move off the ball to give passing options.  They should all know how to do that.

Martin is fucking it up with the ridiculous shape of the side.  Inverted full-backs, fuck off, total bullshit.  A midfield that teams are running through, fuck off, total bullshit.  Leaving us 1 v 1 at the back, fuck off, total bullshit.

His tactics aren’t ‘brave’, they’re fucking stupid.  If we get smashed again tomorrow, Wilcox needs to do his job and address the situation.

This is the bit that concerns me too. Why is it that RM is going to apparently take time to implement a style and the players are going to take time to get used to it. The Leicester manager has had the same amount of time, is sitting pretty near the top of the league and has had the same amount of games as RM, what’s so different about us that we apparently are going to have to give it time.

Why does it need to be so fucking hard, play your players in their best positions, put a man in front of the back four and stop conceding fucking goals.

Getting pissed off being a project for some guy with a “philosophy” trying to overcomplicate the very simple game of football.

[saintant]

17 minutes ago, bpsaint said:

This is the bit that concerns me too. Why is it that RM is going to apparently take time to implement a style and the players are going to take time to get used to it. The Leicester manager has had the same amount of time, is sitting pretty near the top of the league and has had the same amount of games as RM, what’s so different about us that we apparently are going to have to give it time.

Why does it need to be so fucking hard, play your players in their best positions, put a man in front of the back four and stop conceding fucking goals.

Getting pissed off being a project for some guy with a “philosophy” trying to overcomplicate the very simple game of football.

It seems to me that coaches like RM watch Man City and convince themselves that they can get a team playing the same way. I see why they get sucked in because City make it look so easy. The problem is it is far from that. City can do it because they have Pep in charge, huge financial resources and the best players available. We need a style that suits our players and to stop trying to turn them into a version of Man City as that is never going to work. If RM refuses to change he is putting his own head in the noose and it won't be long before the hangman decides it's time to kick the box away.

[notnowcato]

30 minutes ago, bpsaint said:

This is the bit that concerns me too. Why is it that RM is going to apparently take time to implement a style and the players are going to take time to get used to it. The Leicester manager has had the same amount of time, is sitting pretty near the top of the league and has had the same amount of games as RM, what’s so different about us that we apparently are going to have to give it time.

Why does it need to be so fucking hard, play your players in their best positions, put a man in front of the back four and stop conceding fucking goals.

Getting pissed off being a project for some guy with a “philosophy” trying to overcomplicate the very simple game of football.

Before the game against Leicester we were 2 points behind them, so despite us being in the process of transforming our playing style we're not far that off the favourites to win the league.

Things are a little bleak at present; but if we can continue to stay in touch, get a fully fit squad back including Ross Stewart and the plan starts coming together we could be stronger for it.

Edited 18 September, 2023 by notnowcato

[Adkins' Bus]

18 minutes ago, saintant said:

It seems to me that coaches like RM watch Man City and convince themselves that they can get a team playing the same way. I see why they get sucked in because City make it look so easy. The problem is it is far from that. City can do it because they have Pep in charge, huge financial resources and the best players available. We need a style that suits our players and to stop trying to turn them into a version of Man City as that is never going to work. If RM refuses to change he is putting his own head in the noose and it won't be long before the hangman decides it's time to kick the box away.

Exactly, we haven't even got the same style of players that Man City are using in their current system. Their inverted full backs are generally physical ball playing centre halves, e.g. Stones, Ake. They also have Rodri in DM, so that is 5 physical, defensively minded players that give them a base for their attacking players to express themselves. It is very different and downright stupid trying to replicate it with KWP, Manning and Downes!  

[gecko]

17 hours ago, saintant said:

Haven't seen that goal before. That is so embarrassing for Utd - made no attempt to close down. Good from Brighton but few teams in the Premier League would allow that.

I'd wager even we'd be able to break a press that glacial. Ten Haag must've been absolutely fuming at the apathy shown in that clip.

The theory of drawing the press is fine by me, it should leave bigger spaces in the rest of the field to exploit. However, something really hasn't clicked yet, as I've not seen us actually exploit space like that in any of the games so far. And the whole inverted-fullback stuff seems to be doing nothing but leaving gaping holes in the defence that every other team seems more than capable of exploiting at pace.

RM really does need to earn his dollar-bucks right now

[wild-saint]

3 hours ago, Wade Garrett said:

I don’t get this bollocks of it’s going to take time.  These guys are professionals, they know how to play football, and are fit.  The game is not the rocket science that Martin makes it out to be.

Move the ball quickly, and move off the ball to give passing options.  They should all know how to do that.

Martin is fucking it up with the ridiculous shape of the side.  Inverted full-backs, fuck off, total bullshit.  A midfield that teams are running through, fuck off, total bullshit.  Leaving us 1 v 1 at the back, fuck off, total bullshit.

His tactics aren’t ‘brave’, they’re fucking stupid.  If we get smashed again tomorrow, Wilcox needs to do his job and address the situation.

Totally agree. I mad my mind up 15 minutes into Friday night that he was clueless and needs to go. The remainder of the game just added to the shit show. Its not the ability of the players its the set up thats flawed. He changes it and we have a chance tomorrow. I fear it is a hill he is prepared to die on so the sooner the better for me.

[Lighthouse]

Comparisons with Leicester are pointless, they’re a different club who came down with an arguably much better team and were starting off from a higher platform. We are having to start again from scratch, with one of the worst squads in premier league history, minus its best players.

Im not saying Russell is definitely the man to take us forward and if these defensive horror shows continue much longer he’ll have to go, but this is going to take patience regardless of who’s in charge.

[Wade Garrett]

30 minutes ago, wild-saint said:

Totally agree. I mad my mind up 15 minutes into Friday night that he was clueless and needs to go. The remainder of the game just added to the shit show. Its not the ability of the players its the set up thats flawed. He changes it and we have a chance tomorrow. I fear it is a hill he is prepared to die on so the sooner the better for me.

Why wouldn’t he be prepared to die on his tactics.  He’ll get his contract paid up regardless.  

[wild-saint]

26 minutes ago, Wade Garrett said:

Why wouldn’t he be prepared to die on his tactics.  He’ll get his contract paid up regardless.  

Id like to think he can see the flaws in  the system and make appropriate changes rather than sit there thinking it will work with time and patience. Yes he wil get paid out but surely he is a professional and will want to be seen as a successful particularly if he want to take his career higher still. 

[S-Clarke]

45 minutes ago, Lighthouse said:

Comparisons with Leicester are pointless, they’re a different club who came down with an arguably much better team and were starting off from a higher platform. We are having to start again from scratch, with one of the worst squads in premier league history, minus its best players.

Im not saying Russell is definitely the man to take us forward and if these defensive horror shows continue much longer he’ll have to go, but this is going to take patience regardless of who’s in charge.

I dunno, I think it's fair to have the same expectations as Leicester. By all accounts we were in a much stronger position financially than Leicester, who relied on loans and such because of FFP. I'm not of the mindset to sit back and say ''Oh well, we can never be expected to compete with Leicester, write that game off!''

They've managed to keep the likes of KDH, Ndid, Pereira, Vardy sure - but like us they lost a hell of a lot of first team players - Castange, Maddison, Barnes, Soumoure, Kristiansen, Tielemans, Perez, Evans, Armarty, Thomas, Mendy, Tete.

We've done well to get the fee's we have for our guys, they lost a lot on free. We have also been able to retain KWP, Adams, Alcaraz, Sulemana. Sure, it was never a foregone conclusion that we'd beat Leicester - totally possible we'd lose - but to go down 4-1 to someone I expected to be close to isn't great.

[the saint in winchester]

Press Conference:

His hair looks nicer, softer

"Kamaldeen appeal successful"

"We're trying to build here, we need foundations"

"We are consistent, but social media is crazy"

"trust the process, it will get better, the Swansea lads will confirm that"

"i'm relaxed, we will win more games than we won't"

"we have to go through pain to get to where we want to get to"

"Gav's brilliant, we made a montage of his saves and distribution"

"I'm looking forward to tomorrow, I'm happy with the work we have done this week"

 

[S-Clarke]

3 minutes ago, the saint in winchester said:

Press Conference:

His hair looks nicer, softer

"Kamaldeen appeal successful"

"We're trying to build here, we need foundations"

"We are consistent, but social media is crazy"

"trust the process, it will get better, the Swansea lads will confirm that"

"i'm relaxed, we will win more games than we won't"

"we have to go through pain to get to where we want to get to"

"Gav's brilliant, we made a montage of his saves and distribution"

"I'm looking forward to tomorrow, I'm happy with the work we have done this week"

 

Let's hope we start to see things changing in that case. I'm still of the belief that good players win you games, not systems. In fact systems and philosophy's can actually hinder good players - so if we can play our good players, who are better than 90% of this league, in their natural positions then I'm sure we'll win many more.

I find it hard to totally get behind the 'need to build' and 'gelling' arguments - Leicester haven't had that problem using them as an example. Burnley didn't have that issue last year and they totally transformed themselves. It's all about good players. We've got good enough players who shouldn't' need to gel, just let them do what they're good at.

Edited 18 September, 2023 by S-Clarke

[qwertyell]

He's not getting sacked any time soon. The club have gone all in on their Swansea fetish - added a couple more of their youth coaches today, having already signed their manager, all their senior coaching staff, their academy director, and a few ex players (and failed to sign Nathan Wood). 

There's clearly a plan in place. Replicating the non-success of Swansea is not a very good plan, perhaps, but one that is unlikely to be abandoned after just a couple of months.

Better get used to celebrating those sweet possession stats. And not much else.

 

[SambaMaverick]

The fan-blaming (although he insists he's not blaming the fans) is creeping in.

The anecdote about the fan behind the dugout was telling. 

If the players and manager are upset that someone else is showing the passion they should be conjuring up for the money they're paid, then I'm not sure football is the right sport for them. 

RM seems to think that happiness of the players comes above results, which it doesn't. Manning's comments a few weeks ago echoed that. These attitudes which are creeping into football are just bizarre.

[Saint Keef]

31 minutes ago, the saint in winchester said:

Press Conference:

His hair looks nicer, softer

"Kamaldeen appeal successful"

"We're trying to build here, we need foundations"

"We are consistent, but social media is crazy"

"trust the process, it will get better, the Swansea lads will confirm that"

"i'm relaxed, we will win more games than we won't"

"we have to go through pain to get to where we want to get to"

"Gav's brilliant, we made a montage of his saves and distribution"

"I'm looking forward to tomorrow, I'm happy with the work we have done this week"

 

We've made a montage of Gav - Brilliant - that's going to sort it all out.

"We are consistent". Add "ly shit" and you're spot on mate.

"Social media is crazy". Well there's a fucking revelation! You'll find that if you're doing a good job it's not so crazy. If you are doing a shit job it becomes "crazy". If you know it ain't working you start blaming Social media. 

"I'm relaxed". Well you fucking shouldn't be.

"I'm looking forward to tomorrow". Well I'm glad you are, because I'm not.

"I'm happy with the work we've done this week". Yeah I'm sure the montage of Gav is wonderful.

He's starting to sound like Jones to me, believing his own hype (bollocks). Maybe it's just me, but he comes across as being right up his own arse. Never wrong. Not an awful lot of humility on show. 

I confess to being a Ralph fan, although in the end I had to concede that he'd run out of ideas with the players he had (and had allegedly fallen out with some) and I know he got some things wrong, but right now, I'd take him back in a heartbeat. 

[Chewy]

The most concerning bit for me about that press conference was how he referenced Swansea and MK as examples of where, after a painful period, it suddenly started working and everything was great.  Didn’t they finish bottom half each time?

Im not suggesting it didn’t get better, or that those results at those clubs with those budgets were bad, but it’s hardly referencing a comparable experience. We should be challenging for the title from day 1. We shouldn’t - with the players we have - need to go through a learning experience of shipping 3 goals at Gillingham, 4 goals at home twice, and 5 goals at Sunderland. We were in the premier league last season, conceding less than that against far superior teams despite being utter sh1te. We shouldn’t be doing it now, new process or not.  
We shouldn’t need half a season of being cr4p and then be grateful for salvaging a top half finish next April.

The other weird bit was when he said how all the goals conceded were different so it was hard to learn from. They’re not different - they come from a) leaving a 60 yard unmanned gap behind us (mostly at corners) or b) giving the ball away two inches from our own goal.

If he GENUINELY believes there’s no common issue behind most of the goals we’ve shipped, then he’s bat sh1t mental and we’re screwed.

It was a press conference so I’ll give him the benefit of the doubt, but I’m even more worried after watching that than I was at full time on Friday. 

[trousers]

40 minutes ago, SambaMaverick said:

The fan-blaming (although he insists he's not blaming the fans) is creeping in.

Yep... He seems to think if he slaps a "...but I don't blame the fans... Their negative reaction is completely understandable" at the end of every paragraph then we won't notice his thinly veiled pops at the fans... Unlucky Mr Martin, there's a few fans that are clever enough to spot it... 

Edited 18 September, 2023 by trousers

[trousers]

30 minutes ago, Saint Keef said:

He's starting to sound like Jones to me

There were a couple of times in that press conference that I said to myself "Jones would have said something along those lines"... Don't think he's at Jones' levels of madness though.... Not yet anyway.... 

Edited 18 September, 2023 by trousers

[Turkish]

17 hours ago, trousers said:

There were a couple of times in that press conference that I said to myself "Jones would have said something along those lines"... Don't think he's at Jones' levels of madness though.... Not yet anyway.... 

he could have stayed in Brighton and married a nice transgender vegan, lovely…

Edited 19 September, 2023 by Turkish

[Miltonaggro]

Just now, Turkish said:

he could have stayed in Brighton and marred a nice transgender vegan lovely…

Whist being the most zen man in Europe...