Russell Martin

[Wade Garrett]

1 minute ago, Fabrice29 said:

We've had two bad games in a row. Honestly, this fan base is so ridiculous  Fuck it, get another one in and give him 6 games as well, why not.

Fuck off you pious cunt.

[S-Clarke]

I think the argument that we're having 'teething problems' and that 'we were always going to hit these problems whilst we transitioned' is pretty weak tbh. Letting 3 guys run clear through on your goal, on 65 mins, isn't teething problems - it's basic, schoolboy shambles.

Leicester have done exactly the same us as, they reinvited the way they played and are focused on a very similar pass and move style. I don't notice teething problems there.

The biggest difference is that they have decent quality playing in the right positions doing jobs they're comfortable doing, yep they keep the ball but nothing more clever than that.

I appreciate that in the PL we have to look for ways to be 'different' to compete against the heavy hitters, but at this league we are one of the heavy hitters so we don't really need to be clever. 

[Fabrice29]

2 minutes ago, S-Clarke said:

I think the argument that we're having 'teething problems' and that 'we were always going to hit these problems whilst we transitioned' is pretty weak tbh. Letting 3 guys run clear through on your goal, on 65 mins, isn't teething problems - it's basic, schoolboy shambles.

Leicester have done exactly the same us as, they reinvited the way they played and are focused on a very similar pass and move style. I don't notice teething problems there.

The biggest difference is that they have decent quality playing in the right positions doing jobs they're comfortable doing, yep they keep the ball but nothing more clever than that.

I appreciate that in the PL we have to look for ways to be 'different' to compete against the heavy hitters, but at this league we are one of the heavy hitters so we don't really need to be clever. 

This just simply isn't true fwiw. 

[S-Clarke]

1 minute ago, Fabrice29 said:

This just simply isn't true fwiw. 

It is. They have gone mini-pep as well, their fans were all frustrated with the suicidal playing from the back against Coventry in their opening game. They did it a lot yesterday as well. 

They never really played long ball in the PL, but neither did we - there is a specific style they are following though.

[Fabrice29]

Just now, S-Clarke said:

It is. They have gone mini-pep as well, their fans were all frustrated with the suicidal playing from the back against Coventry in their opening game. They did it a lot yesterday as well. 

They never really played long ball in the PL, but neither did we - there is a specific style they are following though.

They were a possession based team for quite a few years under Rodgers, most of their spine yesterday was recruited under him. We've had 4 managers with 4 different styles and recruited accordingly for 3 of those. 

[CB Fry]

54 minutes ago, woodsaint1 said:

Should have brought Carrick in. Doing a fantastic job at Boro....

If we'd have recruited Michael Carrick and he was doing terribly for us, you'd be on this forum telling us all that there is no other manager that could do any better.

[S-Clarke]

4 minutes ago, Fabrice29 said:

They were a possession based team for quite a few years under Rodgers, most of their spine yesterday was recruited under him. We've had 4 managers with 4 different styles and recruited accordingly for 3 of those. 

What I'm trying to say is that good players, in positions and roles they are comfortable in, don't need teething periods or bedding in. They just do their jobs and the quality will rise to the top, dependant on the league they are in.

In it's most basic form football isn't complicated, it really isn't. It becomes complicated when people start being clever with it.

Edited 16 September, 2023 by S-Clarke

[Fabrice29]

3 minutes ago, S-Clarke said:

What I'm trying to say is that good players, in positions and roles they are comfortable in, don't need teething periods or bedding in. They just do their jobs and the quality will rise to the top, dependant on the league they are in.

In it's most basic form football isn't complicated, it really isn't. It becomes complicated when people start being clever with it.

Maybe we don't have good players? That's part of the point I was making earlier. 

[S-Clarke]

2 minutes ago, Fabrice29 said:

Maybe we don't have good players? That's part of the point I was making earlier. 

We do. Let's not start that debate. ''Oh poor Martin, he has such a poor squad with no money!!'' - absolute bollocks. We've got one of the top 3 teams in this league. We had a bench of Sulemana, Charly Alcaraz, Scottish international Armstrong and PL loanee holgate for petes sake.

This is a squad full of quality that should be competing for 2 top all season, if managed right.

Edited 16 September, 2023 by S-Clarke

[Saint Fan CaM]

4 minutes ago, Fabrice29 said:

They were a possession based team for quite a few years under Rodgers, most of their spine yesterday was recruited under him. We've had 4 managers with 4 different styles and recruited accordingly for 3 of those. 

4 managers with four different styles?!? Give me a break. They ALL expected the team to pass out from the back and they ALL expected slow build-up possession based play moving forwards. There are differences in some areas such as the % press, but essentially the system has superseded the managers…i.e. SR want Pep style footie and they’ve tried to recruit ex-MCFC employees (and players) to deliver it. PS: unless you’ve missed the last 2-3 seasons, it ain’t working.

[egg]

2 minutes ago, S-Clarke said:

What I'm trying to say is that good players, in positions and roles they are comfortable in, don't need teething periods or bedding in. They just do their jobs and the quality will rise to the top, dependant on the league they are in.

In it's most basic form football isn't complicated, it really isn't. It becomes complicated when people start being clever with it.

Absolutely. RM's brand of football should suit any pro footballer capable of playing at this level. The only signings over the last couple of years that arguably isn't is Tall Paul, but even he was probably capable of receiving the ball and passing it five yards and then moving. As for the others, nobody is convincing me that any of them isn't capable of passing and moving. 

The primary with RM is how he sets his team up. 

[Smirking_Saint]

2 minutes ago, Fabrice29 said:

Maybe we don't have good players? That's part of the point I was making earlier. 

I think if you compared all the players of all the squads in the division and built a team with them, form not counted, we’d have a significant number

We have good players, we just have a suicidal defensive structure

[Lord Duckhunter]

6 minutes ago, Fabrice29 said:

They were a possession based team for quite a few years under Rodgers, most of their spine yesterday was recruited under him. We've had 4 managers with 4 different styles and recruited accordingly for 3 of those. 

We were possession based under Ralph & Selles, & Jones lasted about 10 mins. it’s a load of old pony to try & make out Martin is bedding in a different style, that’ll take time to embed. Most teams play the same fucking way, when was the last time you saw a side take a proper goal kick instead of.mincing around. 
 

Modern players are quite capable of embracing now tactics quickly, they can adapt. Our players are flexible and adaptable, look how quickly they’ve embraced the Fred Kano method of defending. 

[Fabrice29]

4 minutes ago, S-Clarke said:

We do. Let's not start that debate. ''Oh poor Martin, he has such a poor squad with no money!!'' - absolute bollocks. We've got one of the top 3 teams in this league. We had a bench of Sulemana, Charly Alcaraz, Scottish international Armstrong and PL loanee holgate for petes sake.

This is a squad full of quality that should be competing for 2 top all season, if managed right.

Not saying that at all, I'm saying that some of the guys who have been here a while have consistently let us down and been part of teams who have been losing for a few years now. One of those is captain and one is currently the lead fit striker who the fan base didn't want to be sold. It's weird imo but inconsistent players will deliver inconsistent performances and we've got quite a few.

[Fabrice29]

20 minutes ago, Lord Duckhunter said:

We were possession based under Ralph & Selles, & Jones lasted about 10 mins. it’s a load of old pony to try & make out Martin is bedding in a different style, that’ll take time to embed. Most teams play the same fucking way, when was the last time you saw a side take a proper goal kick instead of.mincing around. 
 

Modern players are quite capable of embracing now tactics quickly, they can adapt. Our players are flexible and adaptable, look how quickly they’ve embraced the Fred Kano method of defending. 

23 minutes ago, Saint Fan CaM said:

4 managers with four different styles?!? Give me a break. They ALL expected the team to pass out from the back and they ALL expected slow build-up possession based play moving forwards. There are differences in some areas such as the % press, but essentially the system has superseded the managers…i.e. SR want Pep style footie and they’ve tried to recruit ex-MCFC employees (and players) to deliver it. PS: unless you’ve missed the last 2-3 seasons, it ain’t working.

Really don't think this is true at all. Playing out from the back is such a minor thing, it's not a style. Ralph was very heavily off the ball based, he had a playbook that he insisted all age groups worked to so they knew where they were supposed to be at all times. It led to players being under coached on the ball and when we lost a clinical striker we were dropped massively because we were clearly out of ideas. We recruited heavily based on peoples off the ball qualities, we dismissed the likes of Olise because we didn't trust his off the ball ability, just because he tried playing out of the back doesn't mean that was his style at all. 

Jones was a mess but was quite clearly trying to make us a more physical side. He alluded to that many times and he felt we weren't strong, tall or quick enough. He was quite obviously torn between what he wanted to do and what he thought/was told modern PL managers do so we had this weird thing of passing it out the back then lumping it into the box. Again poorly coached but a clear push to being more "aggressive" as he kept saying. He referenced power almost every interview during January and was eventually given a massive striker and a rapid winger. A week or two later he was sacked.

Selles recognised we had recruited heavily for Ralph and so tried going back to that whilst also clearly wanting to modernise the team and making us hard to beat and more organised in transitions. No transfer window obviously and this weird result of combination of styles followed.

Martin is completely different. It's clear he's taken us to the extreme other side of things, much more heavily coached in possession and it shows in our movement when on the ball and shows in the attacking player being better  but it's at the detriment of the transition so far. The recruitment is also completely different and much more focused on being better on the ball. We're really in a different style of playing completely right now and 6 games really isn't long enough to judge. At some point we'll have to stick with a manager for more than a few games by the way, why not stick with the one who is actively trying to do something different and more entertaining?

Edited 16 September, 2023 by Fabrice29

[Lord Duckhunter]

More entertaining? 
 

 

Edited 16 September, 2023 by Lord Duckhunter

[revolution saint]

17 minutes ago, Fabrice29 said:

Martin is completely different. It's clear he's taken us to the extreme other side of things, much more heavily coached in possession and it shows in our movement when on the ball and shows in the attacking player being better  but it's at the detriment of the transition so far. The recruitment is also completely different and much more focused on being better on the ball. We're really in a different style of playing completely right now and 6 games really isn't long enough to judge. At some point we'll have to stick with a manager for more than a few games by the way, why not stick with the one who is actively trying to do something different and more entertaining?

Out of interest, when is the best time to judge?  

[saintant]

17 minutes ago, Fabrice29 said:

Really don't think this is true at all. Playing out from the back is such a minor thing, it's not a style. Ralph was very heavily off the ball based, he had a playbook that he insisted all age groups worked to so they knew where they were supposed to be at all times. It led to players being under coached on the ball and when we lost a clinical striker we were dropped massively because we were clearly out of ideas. We recruited heavily based on peoples off the ball qualities, we dismissed the likes of Olise because we didn't trust his off the ball ability, just because he tried playing out of the back doesn't mean that was his style at all. 

Jones was a mess but was quite clearly trying to make us a more physical side. He alluded to that many times and he felt we weren't strong, tall or quick enough. He was quite obviously torn between what he wanted to do and what he thought/was told modern PL managers do so we had this weird thing of passing it out the back then lumping it into the box. Again poorly coached but a clear push to being more "aggressive" as he kept saying. He referenced power almost every interview during January and was eventually given a massive striker and a rapid winger. A week or two later he was sacked.

Selles recognised we had recruited heavily for Ralph and so tried going back to that whilst also clearly wanting to modernise the team and making us hard to beat and more organised in transitions. No transfer window obviously and this weird result of combination of styles followed.

Martin is completely different. It's clear he's taken us to the extreme other side of things, much more heavily coached in possession and it shows in our movement when on the ball and shows in the attacking player being better  but it's at the detriment of the transition so far. The recruitment is also completely different and much more focused on being better on the ball. We're really in a different style of playing completely right now and 6 games really isn't long enough to judge. At some point we'll have to stick with a manager for more than a few games by the way, why not stick with the one who is actively trying to do something different and more entertaining?

Anyone else find losing back to back games 5-0 and 1-4 entertaining?

[revolution saint]

Just now, saintant said:

Anyone else find losing back to back games 5-0 and 1-4 entertaining?

Yep, fucking loving it.  Queue to get out last night was well easy.  That was always the worst thing about going to games and boy did I complain about it to the club.  Anyway, hats off - they've only gone and fucking sorted it.

[Galway saint]

20 minutes ago, Fabrice29 said:

Really don't think this is true at all. Playing out from the back is such a minor thing, it's not a style. Ralph was very heavily off the ball based, he had a playbook that he insisted all age groups worked to so they knew where they were supposed to be at all times. It led to players being under coached on the ball and when we lost a clinical striker we were dropped massively because we were clearly out of ideas. We recruited heavily based on peoples off the ball qualities, we dismissed the likes of Olise because we didn't trust his off the ball ability, just because he tried playing out of the back doesn't mean that was his style at all. 

Jones was a mess but was quite clearly trying to make us a more physical side. He alluded to that many times and he felt we weren't strong, tall or quick enough. He was quite obviously torn between what he wanted to do and what he thought/was told modern PL managers do so we had this weird thing of passing it out the back then lumping it into the box. Again poorly coached but a clear push to being more "aggressive" as he kept saying. He referenced power almost every interview during January and was eventually given a massive striker and a rapid winger. A week or two later he was sacked.

Selles recognised we had recruited heavily for Ralph and so tried going back to that whilst also clearly wanting to modernise the team and making us hard to beat and more organised in transitions. No transfer window obviously and this weird result of combination of styles followed.

Martin is completely different. It's clear he's taken us to the extreme other side of things, much more heavily coached in possession and it shows in our movement when on the ball and shows in the attacking player being better  but it's at the detriment of the transition so far. The recruitment is also completely different and much more focused on being better on the ball. We're really in a different style of playing completely right now and 6 games really isn't long enough to judge. At some point we'll have to stick with a manager for more than a few games by the way, why not stick with the one who is actively trying to do something different and more entertaining?

i can see that conceding 19 goals in 7 games is good for the sky cameras but it’s not great for the team and it’s aspirations

[Ted Bates Statue]

I see #MartinOut is trending on Twitter.  We've put up with a lot of shit in the last couple of years, so he needs to turn it around soon, or he'll be gone by Christmas. Rasmus' preferred NJ replacement Carrick might be available by then.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

(ok it's about Ron Martin of Southend, but looks like it would suit a lot of us)

[Lord Duckhunter]

Just now, saintant said:

Anyone else find losing back to back games 5-0 and 1-4 entertaining?

I don’t particularly find City entertaining, I admire their ability & some of the tactical innovations, but it can be as boring as Coldplay or U2. I prefer Klopps Liverpool or Brentford, and those great entertainers from our last spell at this level. Nigel Adkins’ Southampton. 
 

If I don’t find Pep entertaining, I’m hardly likely to find the pound shop version getting me out of my seat. 

[Galway saint]

we are looking for the clever option and in reality what we need is someone who understands the game and how to set up a team. the likes of hodgson but that’s not ‘cool’ enough 

[Fabrice29]

19 minutes ago, revolution saint said:

Out of interest, when is the best time to judge?  

At the very least when we've lost more league games than we have won. 

Edited 16 September, 2023 by Fabrice29

[Weston Super Saint]

10 minutes ago, Fabrice29 said:

At the very least when we've lost more league games than we have won. 

Next weekend then?

[derry]

1 hour ago, S-Clarke said:

What I'm trying to say is that good players, in positions and roles they are comfortable in, don't need teething periods or bedding in. They just do their jobs and the quality will rise to the top, dependant on the league they are in.

In it's most basic form football isn't complicated, it really isn't. It becomes complicated when people start being clever with it.

Being stupid not clever,

[woodsaint1]

1 hour ago, CB Fry said:

If we'd have recruited Michael Carrick and he was doing terribly for us, you'd be on this forum telling us all that there is no other manager that could do any better.

Not really kid, since you're so interested in my posts have a wee dig there and you'll see plenty where I said that Carrick was overrated and would struggle once they lost Akpom and Archer. 

 

[saintant]

3 hours ago, Fabrice29 said:

So much wrong and hysterical about this post but I've bolded a few of my favourites. Just love the idea you can't coach good possession based football and that nobody outside of City tries it, despite being in a league won last year by a team literally who were lauded for it. Also love the idea that we get back to basic and simple football and not only will the players perform but the crowd will love it despite having one of the most basic managers around just a few months ago and the fans booing him off every week because guess what...the players weren't performing. Glorious.

Where did I say nobody outside of Man City tries it? The problem with RM is that he is for total possession football which his players cannot give him. Of course, all teams play for possession of the ball but you can't instruct your defenders not to ever go long to the flanks or channels which is where he is going wrong. Mix it up and make the possession football more purposeful. We have no shape or strategy and look a ragbag of a team that has no clue what it's doing. Let's see what the future brings - my guess is that RM's current style of play will be binned one way or another.

Edited 16 September, 2023 by saintant

[adrian lord]

It’s not looking good. Not only for Martin but Sports Republic and the executives that make the decisions about hiring. 
 

I find myself casting my eyes enviously along the coast at Brighton - they are everything we once were during the Poch and Koeman eras and seem to run seamlessly despite changes in off and on field personnel. 

[Dark Munster]

2 hours ago, Lord Duckhunter said:

He’s part of the problem, so I doubt it. When did Wilcox suddenly become some sort of football guru? 

That’s what I’ve been wondering. Many think JW is some messiah. I suppose in a way I can understand people putting him on a pedestal, because of the sheer incompetence of Rasmus W. Ankersen and co. anyone semi competent looks like a genius in comparison. But if he is the one who chose RM then Dragan needs to haul him into his office and ask him what the f*ck is going on. 

[CB Fry]

1 hour ago, woodsaint1 said:

Not really kid, since you're so interested in my posts have a wee dig there and you'll see plenty where I said that Carrick was overrated and would struggle once they lost Akpom and Archer. 

 

It's more about what happens to some fans when any manager becomes Saints manager. I seriously doubt you were shouting for Russell Martin and no one else on the day Selles was fired. 

I remember some fucking idiots trying to tell me that Sports Republic would not sack Nathan Jones even if he relegated us because Sports Republic had a vision and they would stick to it and Jones was the long term appointment and that was the end of it. Fancy that, eh?

Edited 16 September, 2023 by CB Fry

[LGTL]

1 hour ago, Galway saint said:

we are looking for the clever option and in reality what we need is someone who understands the game and how to set up a team. the likes of hodgson but that’s not ‘cool’ enough 

Tony Mowbray would get us promoted this season, no question. Knows the league inside out, knows how to set a team up and knows how to defend. But he wouldn’t take nonsense off Rasmus or Wilcox (who has done what exactly to warrant the esteem he’s held in?).

[Farmer Saint]

4 minutes ago, LGTL said:

Tony Mowbray would get us promoted this season, no question. Knows the league inside out, knows how to set a team up and knows how to defend. But he wouldn’t take nonsense off Rasmus or Wilcox (who has done what exactly to warrant the esteem he’s held in?).

If you'd have suggested Tony Mowbray in the Summer you'd have been laughed off the forum. 

The issue is, as fans, we're as fucking clueless as the owners, as most of the suggestions were fucking shit. I know we're not paid to find managers yadda blah blah, but I think as fans we've also thought in the past that we know better than the owners. 

I think one of the biggest frustrations as fans, and after seeing Martin seemingly going tits up, is that as fans we are also all out of ideas. There is no easy fix, and that's scary. We've had 4 managers in the last year, and they've all been fucking shit. What's to say if we brought in a new Manager it wouldn't be the same. I think it probably would personally. Something is properly broken at the club. 

[Fabrice29]

1 hour ago, saintant said:

Where did I say nobody outside of Man City tries it? The problem with RM is that he is for total possession football which his players cannot give him. Of course, all teams play for possession of the ball but you can't instruct your defenders not to ever go long to the flanks or channels which is where he is going wrong. Mix it up and make the possession football more purposeful. We have no shape or strategy and look a ragbag of a team that has no clue what it's doing. Let's see what the future brings - my guess is that RM's current style of play will be binned one way or another.

The first thing he did after the first goal yesterday was tell Charles he should have clipped it into the channel. It's also abundantly clear he's instructed Bazunu to pick out runners with long balls but yeah, he doesn't mix it up.

[saint michael]

I think the main problem is that we have decided that we want to be a city type side and whoever the manager is will need to comply with this. Fundamentally this football style doesn’t suit us, and can’t be executed successfully here at saints, because the step of having football competency and sound foundations are missing and will take a generation now to develop.  Who knows where we would bottom out before or (if) it can be achieved. 

This problem is then compounded by the wish for this to be done with a team of young players that can be developed and sold for a fortune and then the cycle is reworked with incoming players making a smooth transition in without impacting performance. 
 

The theory is that whilst all this is going on we are challenging for top 6 prem position that showcases how great we are and how brilliant this theory is being executed. 
 

We are in this experiment and have been for a few years so far. I see no progress and getting worse if anything. 
 

step 1 of this needs to be train the team in football fundamentals and get them playing together. Unfortunately we have fast forwarded to step 5 advanced football style…
 

A right shit show for a long time to come. Unless we go to step 1

[Saint Billy]

The big problem is that I don't think RM is capable of changing the system or even wanting to.

[woodsaint1]

43 minutes ago, CB Fry said:

It's more about what happens to some fans when any manager becomes Saints manager. I seriously doubt you were shouting for Russell Martin and no one else on the day Selles was fired. 

I remember some fucking idiots trying to tell me that Sports Republic would not sack Nathan Jones even if he relegated us because Sports Republic had a vision and they would stick to it and Jones was the long term appointment and that was the end of it. Fancy that, eh?

I know its mental that people want them out after 6 games, even when we've won half of them. RM wasnt my choice but the decision was made and Wilcox (a football man) has explained his reasons for appointing him. Im always for giving managers time, whats wrong with that. It was bad enough we had 3 managers last season, do you want another 3 this season? Even Watford would be laughing at us.

Jones shot himself in the foot with his bizarre post match comments and pressers. The board had to act in the end. The fact they ended up giving it to Selles shows that they had no real plan beyond Jones for last season

[LGTL]

43 minutes ago, Farmer Saint said:

If you'd have suggested Tony Mowbray in the Summer you'd have been laughed off the forum. 

The issue is, as fans, we're as fucking clueless as the owners, as most of the suggestions were fucking shit. I know we're not paid to find managers yadda blah blah, but I think as fans we've also thought in the past that we know better than the owners. 

I think one of the biggest frustrations as fans, and after seeing Martin seemingly going tits up, is that as fans we are also all out of ideas. There is no easy fix, and that's scary. We've had 4 managers in the last year, and they've all been fucking shit. What's to say if we brought in a new Manager it wouldn't be the same. I think it probably would personally. Something is properly broken at the club. 

As a football club, we're obsessed with having an 'identity' and thinking we know better then anyone else in the entire country. It goes right back to the times of the 'black box' and other associated nonsense. Reed, Semmens, Ankerson and now Wilcox are all oh so clever. We do it differently, we don't follow we lead, we march on, academy of football yada yada. There's a pungent smell of arrogance that renovates throughout the entire club that we just can't seem to shift. Buy low, sell high, nothing can ever go wrong. Sell your best player? Go to the black box and get the next one off the conveyor belt and show how brilliant we are. Except that next player is fucking Wesley Hoedt. 

As a football club we have completely lost focus of what's important, and that's winning fucking football matches. Pellegrino, Hughes, Hasenhuttl, Jones, Selles, Martin. Our last 6 managers, and bar RH and to a lesser extent Hughes, a list of complete incompetence and neglect by managing directors that think they're clever and know better. Even the best of that list managed to lose 9-0 not once, but twice. 

The current mess is a result of a managed decline by narcissistic bellends over a number of years, going right back to when we sacked Puel. As a club, we're getting everything we deserve for thinking we're some football outlier who are leading the blind. 

[Killers Knee]

Russel Brand has a better defence

[Harry_SFC]

26 minutes ago, LGTL said:

As a football club, we're obsessed with having an 'identity' and thinking we know better then anyone else in the entire country. It goes right back to the times of the 'black box' and other associated nonsense. Reed, Semmens, Ankerson and now Wilcox are all oh so clever. We do it differently, we don't follow we lead, we march on, academy of football yada yada. There's a pungent smell of arrogance that renovates throughout the entire club that we just can't seem to shift. Buy low, sell high, nothing can ever go wrong. Sell your best player? Go to the black box and get the next one off the conveyor belt and show how brilliant we are. Except that next player is fucking Wesley Hoedt. 

As a football club we have completely lost focus of what's important, and that's winning fucking football matches. Pellegrino, Hughes, Hasenhuttl, Jones, Selles, Martin. Our last 6 managers, and bar RH and to a lesser extent Hughes, a list of complete incompetence and neglect by managing directors that think they're clever and know better. Even the best of that list managed to lose 9-0 not once, but twice. 

The current mess is a result of a managed decline by narcissistic bellends over a number of years, going right back to when we sacked Puel. As a club, we're getting everything we deserve for thinking we're some football outlier who are leading the blind. 

This is why I enjoyed the Adkins era so much. None of this bollocks about a style being set in stone, it was just decent football mixed with hard work. He created a winning atmosphere and the players enjoyed playing for him. Nothing seemed complicated.

[Gloucester Saint]

47 minutes ago, LGTL said:

As a football club, we're obsessed with having an 'identity' and thinking we know better then anyone else in the entire country. It goes right back to the times of the 'black box' and other associated nonsense. Reed, Semmens, Ankerson and now Wilcox are all oh so clever. We do it differently, we don't follow we lead, we march on, academy of football yada yada. There's a pungent smell of arrogance that renovates throughout the entire club that we just can't seem to shift. Buy low, sell high, nothing can ever go wrong. Sell your best player? Go to the black box and get the next one off the conveyor belt and show how brilliant we are. Except that next player is fucking Wesley Hoedt. 

As a football club we have completely lost focus of what's important, and that's winning fucking football matches. Pellegrino, Hughes, Hasenhuttl, Jones, Selles, Martin. Our last 6 managers, and bar RH and to a lesser extent Hughes, a list of complete incompetence and neglect by managing directors that think they're clever and know better. Even the best of that list managed to lose 9-0 not once, but twice. 

The current mess is a result of a managed decline by narcissistic bellends over a number of years, going right back to when we sacked Puel. As a club, we're getting everything we deserve for thinking we're some football outlier who are leading the blind. 

Brilliant post. Summarises that it’s not the same club that played at the Dell, which WGS, Nigel, Poch or Ronald managed. Gao’s takeover and Semmens arriving killed the club and any identity, Kreuger and Reed did the rest. Bullshit merchants all and SR and Rasmus are just another extension of that. Soulless corporate club playing soulless football with soulless mercenary players, JWP might as well as switched the lights off when he left.

Just a bigger version of Reading or MK Dons. The obsession with how much they sell players for is pathetic - useless selling a VVD or a Lavia if you buy Carrillos, Onachus, Elys, Lyancos, Vestergaards and Hoedts. If you a buy a Mane, a Tadic or an earlier career VVD, then you can feel happy for a season but be planning for the next successor and increasing the budget as your comparators will.

Pellegrino-Hughes-N Jones-Selles-Martin - there’s a clear regression towards the soundbite manager who thinks tactics are a type of small mint. It’s just that Jones’s sound bites didn’t quite fit the plastic brand. But with Russell Martin they’ve found their David Brent. And so appropriate for an empty corporate vessel. Deserves to get steamrollered by real central midfielders with character in this division, like Saints had in 2011-12 with Hammond, Cork and Morgan. 

Still, if SR takes us into the National League, they can install a plastic pitch to complete the artificiality. 

Edited 16 September, 2023 by Gloucester Saint

[sandwichsaint]

58 minutes ago, woodsaint1 said:

I know its mental that people want them out after 6 games, even when we've won half of them. RM wasnt my choice but the decision was made and Wilcox (a football man) has explained his reasons for appointing him. Im always for giving managers time, whats wrong with that. It was bad enough we had 3 managers last season, do you want another 3 this season? Even Watford would be laughing at us.

Jones shot himself in the foot with his bizarre post match comments and pressers. The board had to act in the end. The fact they ended up giving it to Selles shows that they had no real plan beyond Jones for last season

Surely one of the defining characteristics of the black box was that we always had the next manager 'on tap'. Did you see RM's comments last night? Who is this season's Selles?

Hopefully (!) SR have learnt some lessons and we do have a Plan B.

[verlaine1979]

Watched City this morning (California time) and noted that their playing out from the back almost never involves passing to a marked fullback with only an inch or two of space inside the touchline. Seems that makes quite a big difference. Who'd have thought?

[saintant]

1 hour ago, Fabrice29 said:

The first thing he did after the first goal yesterday was tell Charles he should have clipped it into the channel. It's also abundantly clear he's instructed Bazunu to pick out runners with long balls but yeah, he doesn't mix it up.

My apologies, I hadn't realised you were privy to what RM said to Charles after the first goal. Bazunu picking out runners with a few long balls can hardly be described as mixing it up -there are ten outfield players in the team.

[notnowcato]

8 hours ago, Sheaf Saint said:

Quite.

Like us they have a new manager and a largely new-look squad. But the difference yesterday was night and day. Their manager knew exactly how to set his team up to defend properly and to exploit our weaknesses. 

Horseshit. We were the architects of our downfall, Leicester took advantage superbly. 

[StrangelyBrown]

For all those calling for RM to get time - what improvement are you seeing? We are getting worse not better. What I expect from a manager is a bit of tactical flexibility.

When something isn't working great leaders change things up - so far RM slicks back his shit hair and carries on with the same shit. We've had too many inflexible twats running this club and RM is showing every sign of being another one...

[revolution saint]

21 minutes ago, notnowcato said:

Horseshit. We were the architects of our downfall, Leicester took advantage superbly. 

That’s a really fine distinction that doesn’t need “horseshit” prefixing it. You’re basically saying the same thing

[revolution saint]

5 hours ago, Fabrice29 said:

At the very least when we've lost more league games than we have won. 

Cheers, that’s a pretty low bar for a team expecting to be in the mix for promotion or play offs. Extrapolate that out over a season and you need to go down to 13th before you get to a side that has lost more than they’ve won. And that seems to be Martin’s level, mid table. So despite having better resources you don’t think he should be judged unless he does worse than he did at Swansea. Good to know, and obviously if he does do worse, it’s probably the fans fault. Nice.

[Patrick Bateman]

3 hours ago, Farmer Saint said:

 

The issue is, as fans, we're as fucking clueless as the owners, 

This is the only thing that makes sense, BUT, we as fans can all see that with this squad you pay for some experience (Potter? don't care, anyone with actual top flight experience) and Saints go up. Carry on messing around with trying to find the next best gem, you get worse. 

Right now I honestly would be welcoming Hassenthuttl back.  Not even sure he should have been given the boot still - a few players moaned, I have a feeling those players are no longer here ... 

[Osvaldorama]

23 minutes ago, StrangelyBrown said:

For all those calling for RM to get time - what improvement are you seeing? We are getting worse not better. What I expect from a manager is a bit of tactical flexibility.

When something isn't working great leaders change things up - so far RM slicks back his shit hair and carries on with the same shit. We've had too many inflexible twats running this club and RM is showing every sign of being another one...

In fairness it has been very few games. I am one that has been defending him because he seems like a great man manager and he managed to stamp some sort of an identity on the team in a very short space of time. 
 

I thought the Sunderland game may have just been a blip. But unfortunately it has continued & the last 2 games have been a catastrophe. The team is doing many things that no professional football team should ever do. I genuinely can’t believe how bad we are. The worry comes in his post match comments where he praised the team. That was totally delusional. 
 

I don’t know where we go from here. Essentially we have to be more solid on Tuesday. I dont even want to contemplate shipping 4+ goals again.