Russell Martin

[JRM]

30 minutes ago, Fabrice29 said:

I'm not saying it's the fans fault. I'm saying this is quite clearly a new set up and it deserves some patience from the fans and the fans not showing that patience doesn't help. I agree it's not the fans fault, I think some of the players who seem to be consistently picked and in idolised by both fans and managers really should take the most blame fwiw. 

Deluded. Tactics are to blame firstly.

[Fabrice29]

13 minutes ago, stknowle said:

Harwood Bellis was a key player in team that pissed this league last season largely because of its solid defence. He looked like he fitted right in to a comically bad piss weak defence last night. Has he become a shit defender the close season or is he now playing for a manager that hasn’t got a clue what he’s doing instead of the one he was playing for last season who absolutely did? 
 

Burnley had kept 1 clean sheet this time last season. Also won twice. They obviously weren't wide open like we are but they weren't an end product. We're 6 games in. Good teams don't just happen and they also don't change everything after 2 or 3 bad games.

[Fabrice29]

Just now, JRM said:

Deluded. Tactics are to blame firstly.

3 different managers with 3 different tactics in the past 8 months but yeeeeeeaaaa, tactics!

[RedArmy]

50 minutes ago, stknowle said:

Even weirder to state that you’re proud of the players. Just fucking bizarre.

Probably a subconscious admission that it wasn’t their fault, they’re just trying to implement his bizarre tactics. 

[Fan The Flames]

3 minutes ago, Fabrice29 said:

Burnley had kept 1 clean sheet this time last season. Also won twice. They obviously weren't wide open like we are but they weren't an end product. We're 6 games in. Good teams don't just happen and they also don't change everything after 2 or 3 bad games.

I would take that if there were good performances under the bad results, a sense that we are moving in the right direction. But there was none of that in the last two games, we look clueless. We are so vulnerable, most mistakes in midfield lead to a good chance for the opposition. We could have let in loads more last night. 

Martin had got some work to do to turn this around 

[Fan The Flames]

7 minutes ago, Fabrice29 said:

3 different managers with 3 different tactics in the past 8 months but yeeeeeeaaaa, tactics!

The tactics were part of the problem last night, we were wide open. And most of the players who started weren't regular players over the last 8 months.

[antialias]

43 minutes ago, Fabrice29 said:

I think fans are some of the problem yes. You say compliant but all I see and hear during games is restfulness. Which is some what understandable considering I've spent years spending money on season tickets and barely seen us win but here we have a manager and an idea that is completely different to what we experienced before and is already producing more entertaining football and it's only been 6 games but the fan base loses it's shit when the keeper (who might be the best passer of the ball in the defence) dares to either pass to his centre back or waits a couple of seconds before picking out a long ball. It's bizarre, there's no patience, there's no thought that maybe we need to encourage them to be better at it rather than mocking them for doing it. No wonder players look tepid in their play at times, they've got a manager all week encouraging them to play a certain way but once they do it and it doesn't quite click straight away they've got 20k plus people screaming at them. 

There's no connection and there hasn't been since Ralph, I think that's a fan base not really knowing what it wants or letting a new manager take them to a place they don't feel comfortable in. 

Spot on.
 

[stknowle]

7 minutes ago, Fabrice29 said:

Burnley had kept 1 clean sheet this time last season. Also won twice. They obviously weren't wide open like we are but they weren't an end product. We're 6 games in. Good teams don't just happen and they also don't change everything after 2 or 3 bad games.

This post makes some valid points but at it's heart is the implication that things will all turn round under Martin, we'll become a solid outfit under him and go on to do well and maybe even win the league. Based on what I have seen so far this season, I don't think any of that will happen. No chance. The only slight hope is we bring in a specialist defensive coach to do what Martin can't whilst he concentrates on doing what he apparently can. Anyway, we are going round in circles here Fabrice. Over and out.

[No Saint David]

On 06/09/2023 at 11:42, notnowcato said:

Welcome to the board.

At what point does a Swans fan stop giving a shit about a previous manager?

Oh I don't give a feck about martin but I actually quite like Southampton, been a closet fan since LeTiss, used to love watching him play.  It's sad to see you being made mugs of.

[Ralph Fastenbüttl]

I can very much understand frustration at our current defensive failings. I'm frustrated.

What I don't understand are the people demanding the manager's head in early September. When we've won more than we've lost.

Do we want better? Yep. Should this squad be capable of delivering better? Undoubtedly. But there is a long ol' season with plenty of twists and turns ahead. Let's just fucking give RM and the team the slightest chance to bed in FFS, yeah?

Edited 16 September, 2023 by Ralph Fastenbüttl

[Lord Duckhunter]

12 minutes ago, redkeith said:

I like a lot of Martins ideas, compared to the previous 2 idiots,  but to try to learn to  play inverted full backs at the same time as trying to adapt to high possession play, at a higher tempo  is just mental. 

We really need to go back to basics. 

A compact shape when out of possession, a shield in front of the back 4 and always having 2 or more players behind the ball at all times.

All you need to do to beat us at the moment is defend in a block, and keep 2 players hugging the touchline.    

 

So you like some of his ideas, but then pull apart his defensive set up and call his attacking set up “mental”. 
 

You call Selles an idiot. I don’t see these tactics being any less idiotic than Russball In fact defensively, Selles set us up better. Had Selles remained in charge, would we be in a worse position? I’m not so sure. 

[CB Fry]

40 minutes ago, Fabrice29 said:

Stephens, Bednarek, Armstrong, Adams.

"Idolised".

Jesus wept.

[Sheaf Saint]

6 minutes ago, Fabrice29 said:

3 different managers with 3 different tactics in the past 8 months but yeeeeeeaaaa, tactics!

I think you're largely banging this drum on your own mate. 

I'm not going to start calling for RM's head quite yet, but the two pastings we have just taken in our last two games are undeniably the result of tactical ineptitude on his part. 

Yes, there have been major issues with this club for a while now, and many of the players who have played a large part in our downfall are still here. But the squad we have now absolutely wouldn't be getting murdered on the break and conceding 4 or more goals game after game if they were coached and set up correctly. 

Martin needs to recognise that his whole system is fatally flawed and that we will lose more than we win the way he has us playing. But all the indications so far, and the testimony of the Swans fans who have come on here, point to him being completely inflexible and unable to learn from his mistakes. So the question is: how much longer do we give him before accepting that we have cocked up yet another managerial appointment?

[Golactico]

IF we pull the plug on Martin, I hope we do something radical like appoint someone with plenty of managerial experience. Young and enthusiastic don't seem to be attributes that have served our purpose over the last three appointments. Hate to say it, but I can think of a very experienced, rather rotund person who would stop the defensive rot and get us winning ugly....

Edited 16 September, 2023 by Golactico

[CB Fry]

17 minutes ago, Fabrice29 said:

3 different managers with 3 different tactics in the past 8 months but yeeeeeeaaaa, tactics!

Pretty obvious to any human being watching last night and at Sunderland that there are very clear issues with the tactical approach and team set up, that if the team were sent out with different instructions the outcome could have been different.

The pattern of play would definitely be different as we never played like that under any of our past five managers.

 

[antialias]

1. Martin is not Pep

No, he is not. Yet.

If you ask me, I'd rather take a chance on a manager who's trying to be Pep than one who's inspired by Sean Dyche. Besides, Pep didn't invent possession football and he didn't know what he knows now when he started his managerial career. Every young manager needs time to learn and develop.

2. Martin doesn't have the players Pep has at Manchester City, so it's impossible to play possession football.

Wrong. It's a myth that you need extraordinary skills to play possession football. I can give you many examples of lower league clubs in the UK and abroad who have played and still play possession football. Swansea under Martinez, Rodgers and Laudrup were called Swanselona and played fantastic football with players you've never heard of.

Also, even the most skilled players make mistakes and those who watch Pep's teams will know that they concede silly goals from time to time. And no one blames Pep for his tactics, because everyone knows that his football is superior in the long run.

What you need to play possession-based football is not some mystical skill, but a bit of concentration and movement patterns to receive the ball (pass & move).

3. We keep conceding plenty of goals

So what? Football is supposed to be an entertaining game. 😂

All joking aside, playing from the back is risky and there will be more goals like this, but I am 100% sure that Martin's style of football is superior in the long run. If it takes two or three seasons to get promoted, so be it.

[Yorkshire Saint]

If you want cheering up go and listen to the last 2 hours of radio 5 and that scrotum natjan jones ...

Edited 16 September, 2023 by Yorkshire Saint

[Miltonaggro]

1 minute ago, Yorkshire Saint said:

If you want cheering up go and listen to the last 2 hours of radio 5 and that scotum natjan jones ...

Is he a DJ now? 

[OldNick]

1 minute ago, Yorkshire Saint said:

If you want cheering up go and listen to the last 2 hours of radio 5 and that scotum natjan jones ...

he's the messiah compared to what we have now lol. I doubt we'd be messing around, but being ultra aggressive and rattling cages

[Chris cooper]

5 minutes ago, antialias said:

1. Martin is not Pep

No, he is not. Yet.

If you ask me, I'd rather take a chance on a manager who's trying to be Pep than one who's inspired by Sean Dyche. Besides, Pep didn't invent possession football and he didn't know what he knows now when he started his managerial career. Every young manager needs time to learn and develop.

2. Martin doesn't have the players Pep has at Manchester City, so it's impossible to play possession football.

Wrong. It's a myth that you need extraordinary skills to play possession football. I can give you many examples of lower league clubs in the UK and abroad who have played and still play possession football. Swansea under Martinez, Rodgers and Laudrup were called Swanselona and played fantastic football with players you've never heard of.

Also, even the most skilled players make mistakes and those who watch Pep's teams will know that they concede silly goals from time to time. And no one blames Pep for his tactics, because everyone knows that his football is superior in the long run.

What you need to play possession-based football is not some mystical skill, but a bit of concentration and movement patterns to receive the ball (pass & move).

3. We keep conceding plenty of goals

So what? Football is supposed to be an entertaining game. 😂

All joking aside, playing from the back is risky and there will be more goals like this, but I am 100% sure that Martin's style of football is superior in the long run. If it takes two or three seasons to get promoted, so be it.

Are you Martin’s Brother?

[pimpin4rizeal]

36 minutes ago, Fabrice29 said:

3 different managers with 3 different tactics in the past 8 months but yeeeeeeaaaa, tactics!

Whilst I’m not gonna jump all over him it’s not really the same team that the other managers had is it ? 

We have had quite a turnover of players and it’s a lower league so we can’t just palm it off as this 

[OttawaSaint]

Leicester have a new set up. Don't see them struggling or playing laughably ludicrous tactics.

[Saint Fan CaM]

9 minutes ago, antialias said:

1. Martin is not Pep

No, he is not. Yet.

If you ask me, I'd rather take a chance on a manager who's trying to be Pep than one who's inspired by Sean Dyche. Besides, Pep didn't invent possession football and he didn't know what he knows now when he started his managerial career. Every young manager needs time to learn and develop.

2. Martin doesn't have the players Pep has at Manchester City, so it's impossible to play possession football.

Wrong. It's a myth that you need extraordinary skills to play possession football. I can give you many examples of lower league clubs in the UK and abroad who have played and still play possession football. Swansea under Martinez, Rodgers and Laudrup were called Swanselona and played fantastic football with players you've never heard of.

Also, even the most skilled players make mistakes and those who watch Pep's teams will know that they concede silly goals from time to time. And no one blames Pep for his tactics, because everyone knows that his football is superior in the long run.

What you need to play possession-based football is not some mystical skill, but a bit of concentration and movement patterns to receive the ball (pass & move).

3. We keep conceding plenty of goals

So what? Football is supposed to be an entertaining game. 😂

All joking aside, playing from the back is risky and there will be more goals like this, but I am 100% sure that Martin's style of football is superior in the long run. If it takes two or three seasons to get promoted, so be it.

Over simplistic tosh. You want simple…here we go…Martin does not have the quality of players at his disposal to play the style of football he wants and win games. Fact.

[Lord Duckhunter]

4 minutes ago, antialias said:

 

2. Martin doesn't have the players Pep has at Manchester City, so it's impossible to play possession football.

Wrong. It's a myth that you need extraordinary skills to play possession football. I can give you many examples of lower league clubs in the UK and abroad who have played and still play possession football. Swansea under Martinez, Rodgers and Laudrup were called Swanselona and played fantastic football with players you've never heard of.

Also, even the most skilled players make mistakes and those who watch Pep's teams will know that they concede silly goals from time to time. And no one blames Pep for his tactics, because everyone knows that his football is superior in the long run.

What you need to play possession-based football is not some mystical skill, but a bit of concentration and movement patterns to receive the ball (pass & move).

 

I’ll give you some other examples of teams playing possession football. Nearly every fucking one in the top 2 divisions. They’re all possession based nowadays, you make out Martin is some sort of outrider. He’s not, the outriders are the ones that don’t. Nobody has a problem with possession football. What they have a problem with is what we do without the ball, and Martins obsession with possession for the sake of it.
 

Some of us were watching Brian Clough’s sides, Liverpool & Ajax playing possession football 50 fucking years ago, before the hipsters redefined the game. Martin hasn’t reinvented the wheel, and you can’t see things the rest of us can’t. 

[Yorkshire Saint]

6 minutes ago, Miltonaggro said:

Is he a DJ now? 

Judging by the distribution of questions between him and Dean what ever his name is (x villa manager) and NJ bailing out as soon as they asked him specifically about how Important it was to have the fans onside id say his future as a DJ is even worse than a PL manager 🤣

[CB Fry]

4 minutes ago, Saint Fan CaM said:

Over simplistic tosh. You want simple…here we go…Martin does not have the quality of players at his disposal to play the style of football he wants and win games. Fact.

I think its more like the style of football he is trying to impose is not going to consistently win games, whoever the players are. He wouldn't last a month at Chelsea or Liverpool playing that shite.

He's bimbled about in mid table at MK Dons and Swansea so there is no evidence it can work at this level or lower.

Edited 16 September, 2023 by CB Fry

[derry]

The simple fact is that after four iffy games we were found out and our weaknesses thoroughly exploited by two teams who played into our weaknesses and murdered us. If we keep doing it, more teams will do the same thing. There are two ways of dealing with it, be more disciplined defensively or change the manager.

[Sheaf Saint]

17 minutes ago, OttawaSaint said:

Leicester have a new set up. Don't see them struggling or playing laughably ludicrous tactics.

Quite.

Like us they have a new manager and a largely new-look squad. But the difference yesterday was night and day. Their manager knew exactly how to set his team up to defend properly and to exploit our weaknesses. 

[woodsaint1]

1 hour ago, stknowle said:

Sorry but that’s bollocks mate. Put a competent manager in charge of that squad in this league and it’s virtually guaranteed top six. Sadly, we have a demonstrably incompetent manager.

What competent manager did you have in mind? All this forum can suggest is Potter like we actually have a chance of enticing him here

[woodsaint1]

26 minutes ago, OttawaSaint said:

Leicester have a new set up. Don't see them struggling or playing laughably ludicrous tactics.

Well they did get beat by Hull at home before they played us. 2 shots on target the whole game. They also werent overly convincing in their first few games (edging wins just like us). Im sure their forum was a joy to read like this one

[CB Fry]

25 minutes ago, woodsaint1 said:

What competent manager did you have in mind? All this forum can suggest is Potter like we actually have a chance of enticing him here

The first airing this season for that old chestnut.

The only conceivable manager for us just so happens to be the one managing us right now.

Said about Ralph, said about Jones, said about Selles. Usually by the same people in succession.

There's no one anywhere on earth who can replace the guy we have. 

Edited 16 September, 2023 by CB Fry

[Miltonaggro]

53 minutes ago, Yorkshire Saint said:

Judging by the distribution of questions between him and Dean what ever his name is (x villa manager) and NJ bailing out as soon as they asked him specifically about how Important it was to have the fans onside id say his future as a DJ is even worse than a PL manager 🤣

The trolleys at Asda Pontypridd beckon. 

[richardc]

1 hour ago, Ralph Fastenbüttl said:

I can very much understand frustration at our current defensive failings. I'm frustrated.

What I don't understand are the people demanding the manager's head in early September. When we've won more than we've lost.

Do we want better? Yep. Should this squad be capable of delivering better? Undoubtedly. But there is a long ol' season with plenty of twists and turns ahead. Let's just fucking give RM and the team the slightest chance to bed in FFS, yeah?

I think its because we have seen he did f**K all in league one and did f**k all in the championship in two years and everything the the fans of previous clubs said is coming true - even if by a miracle we scrape thru back to the Premier league because our squad is worth 5 times the rest of the teams, we will last 5 mins in that league and will be probably looking back fondly on the 5:0 spankings as we let in our 11th or 12th goal

[stknowle]

11 minutes ago, CB Fry said:

The first airing this season for that old chestnut.

The only conceivable manager for us just so happens to be the one managing us right now.

Said about Ralph, said about Jones, said about Selles. Usually by the same people in succession.

There's no one anywhere on earth who can replace the guy we have. 

Haha, yeah this exactly. 

[Whitey Grandad]

1 hour ago, No Saint David said:

Oh I don't give a feck about martin but I actually quite like Southampton, been a closet fan since LeTiss, used to love watching him play.  It's sad to see you being made mugs of.

I was very impressed with Swansea when we went there for that big match a couple of years ago. Very dignified and friendly. A proper football club.

[Miltonaggro]

59 minutes ago, woodsaint1 said:

What competent manager did you have in mind? All this forum can suggest is Potter like we actually have a chance of enticing him here

Back in May I would have gone for Veira, and likely he would have chosen us over Strasbourg. Think he would have been tailor made for us in this league - c’est la vie! 

[saintant]

2 hours ago, Fabrice29 said:

No, but last night we conceded after twenty seconds and most of the crowd was quiet and part of it was obsessed at Vardy daring to celebrate. There's no encouragement, no idea of getting behind them, it's just an inevitability about it. Which would be fine but then it's quickly followed up with anger when Bazunu dares to pass to a defender the next time he gets it. I don't think the players are help themselves obviously, and I have serious issues with certain ones, but I also don't think the fans are particularly helpful either. Even if you cba to encourage, I feel the desperation to be angry at a short pass is genuinely creating a harmful atmosphere.

Go to any ground in the country and fans will react in the same way as we do when the ball is constantly being given away particularly in dangerous areas. You can't expect anything else because that is the norm and people like you who may be prepared to sit and applaud politely are a rare breed. Fans are passionate and, having paid a lot of their hard earned income to watch their team of very highly paid professionals they quite naturally become pissed off if said professionals on massive incomes perform like players who have barely been introduced to a football. Currently I tend to blame RM more than our players because his system is making them look bad. You can laud RM all you like for trying a brave new way of playing but I can tell you and him it has zero chance of working because that kind of effective possession based football is only possible if you have the best players in the world at your disposal. You cannot coach it - if you could teams like Man City would be ten a penny. There's a very simple reason very few managers, if any, outside the top of the Premier League try it and that reason is that it is impossible to implement. The sooner we get back to a more basic, simpler brand of football the sooner our players will perform to the best of their ability and not have the crowd constantly pressurising them - we have a decent squad but they are being asked to play in the wrong way. Now results are turning and teams see how easy we can be exploited it is only going to get worse. Time for management to bite the bullet and inform RM he has to change and see if he has anything else to offer other than possession football.

[Holmes_and_Watson]

46 minutes ago, Miltonaggro said:

The trolleys at Asda Pontypridd beckon. 

"In today's news, two injured in front wheeled, aggressive trolley rampage in Pontypridd."

[saintant]

2 hours ago, Saint NL said:

 

The more I see this, the worse it gets 

I was watching my son's under 12 game and you don't even get three attackers through on goal at that level 🤣

The only time you'd normally see a picture like this is if Leicester were the defending side 🙂

[Weston Super Saint]

1 hour ago, CB Fry said:

The first airing this season for that old chestnut.

The only conceivable manager for us just so happens to be the one managing us right now.

Said about Ralph, said about Jones, said about Selles. Usually by the same people in succession.

There's no one anywhere on earth who can replace the guy we have. 

If think Eddie Howe will be free in a few days 😳

[saintant]

2 hours ago, Dell McDellFace said:

I'm not calling for Russell's head - we don't want to become Watford!

He's not stupid or completely intransigent. Hopefully he will learn from the last few games and create more of a solid formation and tactics.

He will also learn about the squad in a game situation, things that weren't apparent in training.

You have far more faith in his ability to adapt and change than many of us and we were warned by Swansea fans what to expect.

[saintant]

2 hours ago, Fabrice29 said:

Burnley had kept 1 clean sheet this time last season. Also won twice. They obviously weren't wide open like we are but they weren't an end product. We're 6 games in. Good teams don't just happen and they also don't change everything after 2 or 3 bad games.

How many goals had they conceded?

[woodsaint1]

Should have brought Carrick in. Doing a fantastic job at Boro....

Edited 16 September, 2023 by woodsaint1

[saintant]

I wonder if JW has sat RM down for a chat after the last two abysmal performances. I'd like to think he has because things need to be said.

[qwertyell]

Ruben Selles has won more matches this season than Russell Martin, with a club in financial meltdown (docked another three points this week) who have had to build a squad out of kids and bits found in a skip.

Funny old game, Saint. 

[Wade Garrett]

What fucks me off is that he’ll get his contract paid when he gets sacked for his obviously suicidal tactics and deluded post match interviews.

Won’t be long until the players start to turn on him.  I get the impression he’s lost KWP already.

[Lord Duckhunter]

6 minutes ago, saintant said:

I wonder if JW has sat RM down for a chat after the last two abysmal performances. I'd like to think he has because things need to be said.

He’s part of the problem, so I doubt it. When did Wilcox suddenly become some sort of football guru? 
 

 

Edited 16 September, 2023 by Lord Duckhunter

[Wade Garrett]

1 minute ago, qwertyell said:

Ruben Selles has won more matches this season than Russell Martin, with a club in financial meltdown (docked another three points this week) who have had to build a squad out of kids and bits found in a skip.

Funny old game, Saint. 

SR keeping up their record of appointing a manager shittier than his predecessor.

Dragan needs to fuck Rasmus off out of it.

[Fabrice29]

1 hour ago, saintant said:

Go to any ground in the country and fans will react in the same way as we do when the ball is constantly being given away particularly in dangerous areas. You can't expect anything else because that is the norm and people like you who may be prepared to sit and applaud politely are a rare breed. Fans are passionate and, having paid a lot of their hard earned income to watch their team of very highly paid professionals they quite naturally become pissed off if said professionals on massive incomes perform like players who have barely been introduced to a football. Currently I tend to blame RM more than our players because his system is making them look bad. You can laud RM all you like for trying a brave new way of playing but I can tell you and him it has zero chance of working because that kind of effective possession based football is only possible if you have the best players in the world at your disposal. You cannot coach it - if you could teams like Man City would be ten a penny. There's a very simple reason very few managers, if any, outside the top of the Premier League try it and that reason is that it is impossible to implement. The sooner we get back to a more basic, simpler brand of football the sooner our players will perform to the best of their ability and not have the crowd constantly pressurising them - we have a decent squad but they are being asked to play in the wrong way. Now results are turning and teams see how easy we can be exploited it is only going to get worse. Time for management to bite the bullet and inform RM he has to change and see if he has anything else to offer other than possession football.

So much wrong and hysterical about this post but I've bolded a few of my favourites. Just love the idea you can't coach good possession based football and that nobody outside of City tries it, despite being in a league won last year by a team literally who were lauded for it. Also love the idea that we get back to basic and simple football and not only will the players perform but the crowd will love it despite having one of the most basic managers around just a few months ago and the fans booing him off every week because guess what...the players weren't performing. Glorious.

Edited 16 September, 2023 by Fabrice29

[Fabrice29]

3 minutes ago, Wade Garrett said:

What fucks me off is that he’ll get his contract paid when he gets sacked for his obviously suicidal tactics and deluded post match interviews.

Won’t be long until the players start to turn on him.  I get the impression he’s lost KWP already.

We've had two bad games in a row. Honestly, this fan base is so ridiculous  Fuck it, get another one in and give him 6 games as well, why not.