Russell Martin

[FarehamSaintJames]

What a reactionary thread. 😂

[OttawaSaint]

SR are hopeless. They had the opportunity last summer to say, "thanks Ralph but we'll go in a different direction" when we were still reasonably attractive to decent managers. Now all that we can get are snake oil salesmen.

Passing around in our box, what next? Playing without boots to show us how to toughen our feet? 

Loony tunes!

[ErwinK1961]

I guess I’m classed as a Martin apologist, but that was a step too far tonight. Utterly suicidal and shambolic tactics.

This lot can’t play how he wants. Not sure there are many teams that can, we are not City. You have to cut your cloth accordingly.

I have never in my life seen in professional football a 3 on 0 before 70mins. Or 3 goals conceded after basically one misplaced pass. Utter incompetence.

[goodymatt]

I’m struggling with us losing 5-0 to Sunderland and then changing nothing. How can a manager just blindly keep things the same, definition of insanity? Going forward I’m seeing positives but defensively it’s absolutely horrendous. One of the best squads in the league getting ripped apart like we are bottom of the league again.

We are also playing with more fear now, giving the ball away much more often. We don’t have the ability to really control games, despite all the possession, evidenced by the number of goals conceded direct from a kick off, I can count at least 4 already: Plymouth, Norwich, Sunderland, Leicester. That’s 66% of games! Worst defence in the league, 16 goals in 6 games with a 50% save percentage.

I’m sure it will get better over time, getting used to the system, players back fit, settled team etc. I’m also pretty confident that time lost will cost us promotion, certainly automatics.

[The Kraken]

1 minute ago, ErwinK1961 said:

I guess I’m classed as a Martin apologist, but that was a step too far tonight. Utterly suicidal and shambolic tactics.

This lot can’t play how he wants. Not sure there are many teams that can, we are not City. You have to cut your cloth accordingly.

I have never in my life seen in professional football a 3 on 0 before 70mins. Or 3 goals conceded after basically one misplaced pass. Utter incompetence.

It was building up to that all game. I said in the match thread, we had two early corners which were cleared and Smallbone was our last man back, he was almost attacking the penalty box. It’s just cavalier nonsense football tactics. Sunderland highlighted our major flaws, Martin said we won’t make those mistakes again, we went out and did exactly the same. It’s just infuriating. He seems a nice guy with a few good ideas but looks like he’s got no idea how to set up a team to defend.

[6ft8saint]

1 hour ago, AlexLaw76 said:

Not so much that, but just fecking piss easy against us on the break. When I say piss easy, it is an embarrassment to the professional game. Look at Leicester's 4th, they were 3-on-1 with our keeper from 25 yards inside their own half.

But I guess you have the lived experience.

The 4th came from yet another player who was scared to have a shot ans then fumbled a pass back to defence. Effing shoot for once 

[egg]

43 minutes ago, Crab Lungs said:

He sounds like someone scared to put a rocket up those players as he knows he’s the one to blame, so is still doing the pally pally act.

Yep. I said similar last week. He's their mate, not their manager. That never works. 

When you can't manage the players, can't coach a defence or midfield, then slate the fans like he did, you should be a dead man walking. 

[Ralph Fastenbüttl]

Seriously you lot, come on now.

[egg]

19 minutes ago, FarehamSaintJames said:

What a reactionary thread. 😂

??

It's a reaction to everything since the Wednesday game mate. Not tonight. 

[Verbal]

54 minutes ago, trousers said:

Forum regulars will know that, historically, I'm a pragmatist / benefit-of-the-doubt kinda guy, but after tonight I've seen enough.... Martin is quite clearly out of his depth and we need to replace with the likes of Graham Potter sharpish before it's too late.

However, given the recent Jason "everything is rosey" Wilcox interviews, the chances of anything changing are are slim to zero, alas...

Odd that RM should have met with Potter and given him such a rave review. In any other walk of life it would sound like you're choosing, or perhaps unconsciously choosing, your successor.

[saints-til-i-die]

Matt Taylor of Rotherham (and previously Exeter) would be better. Heard and saw a lot of him when he was Exeter manager. Very pragmatic. Honest. Worked wonders with limited resources. 

[Harry_SFC]

I was actually in favour of appointing Martin - I didn't realise at the time that his defensive set up was this bad though. 

As others have alluded to,we made exactly the same mistakes as against Sunderland. Martin said himself that that type of display wouldn't happen again.

I would give him until the international break. If nothing has changed in our structure then I'd bin him off. You can pass the ball and still be solid, just look at Leicester.

We missed out on Maresca...

[qwertyell]

Too enamoured with his own genius to respect the basics of the game.

Downes, Smallbone, and a diminutive, out of position striker wouldn't even be a midfield of substance in a testimonial. Not a tackle between them.

In a competitive, physical league, it's taking the piss - and getting rightfully mauled.  

[saintant]

29 minutes ago, S-Clarke said:

The last two games are on him, because our out of possession shape has been inept in both of them. We cannot, we simply cannot, allow teams to have the freedom to break on us like we're giving. It's basic, it's kid playground stuff, 5-a-side stuff. I just don't understand why. Opposition managers will look at it and stick their quick players up, tackle us, and then they're away because we're so high with everyone all over the shop.

I'm not on board with the ''EVERYONE OUT'' chatter, because it's ridiculous this early on, but we can certainly voice our concerns and hope he has it in him to fix it. This club has been on a slide for many, many, many years now - it's boring now, but at least we're consistent at something - losing games of football at home, it's a soul destroying experience going to St Mary's and has been since 2016. So I guess it's not going to change overnight, seemingly even with a new 11.

What worried me is that we didn't learn anything from Sunderland. Ipswich have pace and attacking quality too, so if we do the same thing against them they will equally pick us off and it will be a similar score line. We need a midfield to start with, them we may have a basis to build from - but he needs to start sticking Charles in there and keeping him in there, he's our only hope.

I agree with all you say but you omit the act that the first two goals which caused most of the damage were not caused by us being caught with too many players upfield. They were the result of Leicester being fully aware that we'd try to play out from the back whatever the circumstances. We played right into their hands by twice giving away the ball in our half and Leicester cashed in and raced into a two goal lead.

[bpsaint]

On 03/09/2023 at 13:15, bpsaint said:

Janny B and Manning are the two notable weak links in the outfield 10 for me.

Having slept on yesterdays result it’s still hugely disappointing but we likely had the most disruptive transfer window, and deadline day of most teams in the Championship. You can guarantee players had agents in their ear all the way up till late the Friday night and I wouldn’t be surprised if the whole mindset of the entire squad was affected as a result. Therefore i’m hoping to accept this was merely a blip and cut RM some slack.

That being said, we’ve had 2 years now of hearing various managers and players tell us a particular result was tough to take etc and they’re going to put it right but it never happens. If we don’t get a win, not a draw but a win, against Leicester then already I’ll have lost faith he’s the man to get us promoted. He’s already got egg on his face by nailing his colours to the mast regarding Bazunu despite every man and his dog knowing it’s a problem area.Fail to get a reaction out of a 5-0 loss and you’d have to question his “philosophy”.

That was my thoughts post Sunderland, and I’m done already, honestly. Promises a reaction and that’s the performance we see as an answer to a 5-0 loss. Martin will not be leading us back to the Prem I’m afraid.

[OttawaSaint]

We play like a cocky but average boxer with his guard down. He's not got a knockout punch and is going to get pummeled...

[Dark Munster]

2 hours ago, trousers said:

Probably too many Martini Espressos here on the Croatian Riviera, but... I'm buggered if I'm going to be the forum pragmatist any longer.... Martin clearly isn't up to the job... Get Potter in to sort this mess out... What is it with Sport Republic and selecting managers that are quite clearly out of their depth...?

It's quite remarkable, isn't it? But there have been strong indications that RM was a Wilcox choice. SR and Rasmus W. Ankersen hid in the background while they let Wilcox introduce the new manager signing, implying he was chosen by Wilcox. But the club were after RM for quite a while, before Wilcox himself was appointed.

So I would really like to know, who was the "brains" behind choosing a mediocre lower league manager, with a poor defensive record, and no previous success? It screams of another Rasmus W. Ankersen hipster choice, desperately trying to find his new Thomas Bloody Frank, but hiding behind Wilcox for plausible deniability after his Jones debacle. I really hope this is the case, because if not, it means our "saviour" Wilcox is clueless and is definitely not the messiah.

[Sergei Gotsmanov]

1 hour ago, trousers said:

Forum regulars will know that, historically, I'm a pragmatist / benefit-of-the-doubt kinda guy, but after tonight I've seen enough.... Martin is quite clearly out of his depth and we need to replace with the likes of Graham Potter sharpish before it's too late.

However, given the recent Jason "everything is rosey" Wilcox interviews, the chances of anything changing are are slim to zero, alas...

I am in the same camp Trousers and would always back a manager. I like him as a person but its like having the team run by one of your mates. The defending has been shambolic yet no effort has been made to address it.

Once again the club has been trying to be smart arses by appointing a young manager who we all know would either be no good and get sacked or would do well and leave anyway.

Many of us knew we needed a big character at the helm, somebody who commanded respect and would have persuaded players to stay and fight for the cause. Somebody who had a point to prove and would not be head hunted by one of the big clubs if he did well. Dare I say it, in the Allardyce mould.

The only encouraging factor is that I think the squad has enough ability to get promoted and if we did finally make the right appointment we would start winning.

 

[HKsaint]

1 hour ago, Wade Garrett said:

No point sacking him.  Every time SR sack a manager, they appoint a worst one.

 

I thought the the last one were the worst, but SR has found a worse one. 

[SNSUN]

I'm not Martin Out yet, but 9 goals conceded in 2 games at this level is fucking pathetic with 1 goal to show for it and he needs to sort it out fast. Pinning all our defensive hopes on signing THB is not going to solve things - it requires coaching. Martin was a bloody defender so god knows how he has us so open at the back!

[OttawaSaint]

I feel completely done with this guy. Didn't want him, don't like him, don't like his tactics. 

Not enjoying this season at all. 

[OttawaSaint]

2 hours ago, bpsaint said:

That was my thoughts post Sunderland, and I’m done already, honestly. Promises a reaction and that’s the performance we see as an answer to a 5-0 loss. Martin will not be leading us back to the Prem I’m afraid.

Ah but what will be the reaction to the reaction?

[St. Ciervo]

In theory, the reaction to the reaction should be equal and opposite. That's quite uplifting.

[OttawaSaint]

Still here?

Useless. He's taken a poor team and made them even worse. 

Start with the defence and work forward but this clown has made everyone forwards. Pillock, Pep wannabe. 

Fuck off!

Edited 16 September, 2023 by OttawaSaint

[OttawaSaint]

41 minutes ago, St. Ciervo said:

In theory, the reaction to the reaction should be equal and opposite. That's quite uplifting.

So now we'll pass it around in the oppo's box before giving it away. Oh joy...

[Nordic Saint]

# Embrace Failure

If you've ever wondered why our managerial appointments under SR are so bad:

"RASMUS ANKERSEN has said that clubs and fans are wrong to discount managers who have failed - and that he actually prefers those who have."

So, don't expect a successful manager anytime soon.

Training Ground Guru | Rasmus Ankersen: Why football clubs should embrace failure

Edited 16 September, 2023 by Nordic Saint

[Fan The Flames]

They will think sticking with RMs style of play is brave, but the brave thing to do is to sack him this morning. 

[Streaky]

Embarrassing that a club relegated from the Premier league can be totally clueless against the ball playing in the championship.

This brand of football will not work at this level. The players aren't good enough to implement it, and the more we try to play out from the back the more teams will press us. 

It's like giving teams a head start. So bad.

[Tauro]

🤡

[wild-saint]

1 hour ago, Fan The Flames said:

They will think sticking with RMs style of play is brave, but the brave thing to do is to sack him this morning. 

Sacking him the Morning after watching that unorganised mess is brave?

brave would have been sacking him at half time. 

There is absolutely no point keeping him because he is wedded to his tactics and won’t change it. He thinks he can coach them to play his style but the problem. Is it’s flawed. 
 

 

[Sarisbury Saint]

SR must be Pompey fans. Can’t think of any other reason why they would be doing this .

[Toussaint]

I am convinced he’s the right man to get us out of this division.

[saintant]

His comments after the game were strange to say the least. He sounded like the pressure is already getting to him and most of what he said came across as garbled nonsense that I don't think even he believed. 

[SaintNewForest]

The last 2 games have been bad, really bad.

But bit early to be calling for his head. Give it till end of October for me and see where we are.

[aintforever]

We shouldn’t be surprised, his whole track record is of loads of possession, loads conceded and shit results.

[Jimbo]

If they’re serious about a promotion challenge, they need to tighten up fast. 
not sure this guy is the man to do it.

Would give him 2 more games to show he can change, or he should go

[Farmer Saint]

I really liked him.

I was wrong. 

He has to go. 

 

 

I don't even care about getting promoted, but I also don't want to see us leak goals like we are. 

[HKsaint]

Martin is doing experiments on us. We are leaking goals for fun. 

[beatlesaint]

I’m not sure, even for Saints managers, the honeymoon period has crashed and burned quite so quickly and alarmingly. From 10 points in 4 games, better than anyone could have expected, to the last two games ! Talk about flatter to deceive.

[AlexLaw76]

With him here, we are bound to win a few games and even go on a little run.  As we should, we have a much better squad than about 20 teams in the league. However, he will also ensure we will finish 7th place or below, which with this squad will be criminal.

He is clearly out of his depth and appears Sports Republic have hired yet ANOTHER dud

Edited 16 September, 2023 by AlexLaw76

[Mr X]

52 minutes ago, Toussaint said:

I am convinced he’s the right man to get us out of this division.

He's definitely that shame it will be to the division below 

[LGTL]

3 minutes ago, AlexLaw76 said:

With him here, we are bound to win a few games and even go on a little run.  As we should, we have a much better squad than about 20 teams in the league.

He is clearly out of his depth and appears Sports Republic have hired yet ANOTHER dud

Oh yeah we’ll beat the cannon fodder. Might beat Rotherham 3-0 or something. They’ll miss a hatful of chances because they aren’t that good, much like QPR/Plymouth. 

But anyone that’s any good in this league will embarrass us. Nailed on for a 10th-15th finish which is disgraceful really. 

[CB Fry]

Just now, AlexLaw76 said:

With him here, we are bound to win a few games and even go on a little run.  As we should, we have a much better squad than about 20 teams in the league.

He is clearly out of his league. and appears Sports Republic have hired yet ANOTHER dud

Our squad is obviously good and against weaker teams we will just win regardless of selection or tactics.

Rotherham won't have a bench where they can bring on Armstrong and Alcaraz etc etc.

So we're into winning in spite of the manager not because of him.

Swansea last two seasons = 68 and 64 goals against. 

Currently we are on track for 122 goals against.

[Harry_SFC]

9 minutes ago, CB Fry said:

Our squad is obviously good and against weaker teams we will just win regardless of selection or tactics.

Rotherham won't have a bench where they can bring on Armstrong and Alcaraz etc etc.

So we're into winning in spite of the manager not because of him.

Swansea last two seasons = 68 and 64 goals against. 

Currently we are on track for 122 goals against.

This really. We've scraped past the worst teams in the division so far because we have better players than them. The 3 times we've come up against teams who will be up there this season we have been battered. (Including Norwich because they were better than us) 

[Patches O Houlihan]

9 hours ago, ErwinK1961 said:

I guess I’m classed as a Martin apologist, but that was a step too far tonight. Utterly suicidal and shambolic tactics.

This lot can’t play how he wants. Not sure there are many teams that can, we are not City. You have to cut your cloth accordingly.

I have never in my life seen in professional football a 3 on 0 before 70mins. Or 3 goals conceded after basically one misplaced pass. Utter incompetence.

This is where I am. His man management and attitude seems good, good relationship with Wilcox, players seem to respond to him. 
 

BUT - The defence needs a screen. At one point Downes was playing alongside KWP next to the corner flag. No way you’d have seen Lavia there last year.
 

He needs to set the full backs up much more rationally - by all means break forward, but not both at once. 
 

The three against none - I haven’t seen either. At 1-3 down in the 67th minute there is still half an hour to play. Just that one incident demonstrates the naivety with which we are set up. 
 

Smallbone looks like JWP under Koeman. Has some talent but no solidity. However I think the reason he didn’t take him down during that break away was because he was already carrying a yellow card having done it once already. As Franny said after - better to not dive in, try to slow things to let team mates catch up. 

[Golac's Cunning Stunts]

8 hours ago, OttawaSaint said:

We play like a cocky but average boxer with his guard down. He's not got a knockout punch and is going to get pummeled...

He already is getting pummelled! Some boxers will improve and learn from mistakes. There is no sign this guy will. He didn’t at Swansea. He said the Sunderland mistakes wouldn’t be made again but they were in the very next game. Even more worrying, this time round he says the players did exactly what he asked them to do. 
 

Massive red flags that he is turning into mad Nate 2.0

[hypochondriac]

If he can't sort out the defence then he has to go. Football should be a simple game and we have excellent players for this division. We either need a new defensive coach or a complete rethink. 

[Golac's Cunning Stunts]

Just now, hypochondriac said:

If he can't sort out the defence then he has to go. Football should be a simple game and we have excellent players for this division. We either need a new defensive coach or a complete rethink. 

Worryingly, he seems wedded to his martinball tactics. He has too much hubris to consider a rethink.

[Saint NL]

Imagine we did get promoted and Martin was playing these suicidal tactics against Man City or Liverpool. It'd blow our 9-0 defeats out the water 

[Patches O Houlihan]

6 minutes ago, hypochondriac said:

If he can't sort out the defence then he has to go. Football should be a simple game and we have excellent players for this division. We either need a new defensive coach or a complete rethink. 

Do we think that Wilcox could roll up his sleeves and make some telling defensive changes?

Not as drastic as a sacking but done in a no nonsense - this has gone far enough, and you need a bit of guidance kind of way. 

Edited 16 September, 2023 by Patches O Houlihan
Bloody autocorrect