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Russell Martin

LegalEagle

By LegalEagle
in The Saints

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ErwinK1961

ErwinK1961

Posted
Posted
On 08/09/2023 at 07:52, egg said:

There was nothing wrong with being concerned before he got here, and then being concerned after Saturday/Gillingham. Frankly, I think it's madness not to be concerned, but let's hope that he's got enough about him to change the lack of discipline (effort, doing as instructed, avoiding yellows) on the pitch, the completely imbalanced shape of the team, and the renegade tactics. 

Of course it’s ok to have doubts, it’s certainly not perfect at the moment and lots of room for improvement.

My comment was aimed at the “hope I’m proved wrong” brigade, who are writing off the manager after 5 league games (after which we have 10 points btw), despite a major overhaul of players, staff and style of play. If people have come to that ‘conclusion’ this quickly, then it’s pretty clear that you didn’t want him in the first place.

Who knows if he’ll turn out to be the one, but 5 games isn’t anywhere near long enough to tell.

  • Like 5
trousers

trousers

Posted
Posted
On 08/09/2023 at 08:22, egg said:

RM seems uber relaxed and pally with his players, but that can be a dangerous thing....

And Ralph was supposedly a stand-offish  disciplinarian... Which can also be a dangerous thing... I guess the really good managers are somewhere in-between 

  • Like 2
Long Shot

Long Shot

Posted
Posted
2 hours ago, Osvaldorama said:


Ok so you’re a real saints fan but just a completely unreasonable one. Makes sense. 
 

It’s absolutely outrageous to be saying that martin’s system is no good. He’s had 5 - FIVE - games with a constantly changing line up due to transfers in & out. And we looked good in 4 of them!
 

I think it’s remarkable that he’s already stamped a new style on the team in such a short time - something our previous managers failed to do.  
 

If we lose the next ten games then you may have a point. But why don’t you wait and see what happens FFS

“We looked good in four of them”.

I beg to differ. We have actually had 6 games (you conveniently forgot Gillingham) and I reckon we looked good against a poor Sheffield Wed and average v Plymouth, QPR and Norwich although I accept the points we got owing to last minute goals made our start look better than our performances. 
You are right 6 games is not enough to properly judge a manager (although Jones was a dead man walking after the same nos). But I have listened to and spoken to Swansea fans and there wasn’t much angst at his leaving which speaks volumes. I was sceptical when he was appointed. I was at Hillsborough and came away thinking perhaps he has something but what I’ve seen since has brought about the return of my scepticism. Maybe I am “being unreasonable” to be so judgemental so quickly but not being a fan of possession tip tappy sideways football I am  pretty sure this isn’t going to end well unless he becomes more flexible. That is a characteristic not shown at Swansea. 
Like I said I hope I am wrong. 

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SW11_Saint

SW11_Saint

Posted
Posted
On 06/09/2023 at 23:41, revolution saint said:

That's because no one has actually said that - you've just made it up.  Well done.  All saintant said was that we need to play the ball a bit quicker, and not only is he right but Russell Martin agrees too.

The inference in his post was clear, otherwise why bother writing it? Maybe you need to read it again. 

  • Confused 1
trousers

trousers

Posted
Posted (edited)
22 minutes ago, Long Shot said:

Like I said I hope I am wrong

"A guaranteed way of not being wrong is not to come to a conclusion in the first place"

(Bobby Davro, Skegness Palladium, May 1983)

But, of course, the only problem with the pragmatic approach is that you don't get to play your "ner, ner, ner ner, ner... told you so" card if it does all end up going tits up... ;)

Edited by trousers
The Kraken

The Kraken

Posted
Posted
8 minutes ago, Long Shot said:

…

but not being a fan of possession tip tappy sideways football I am  pretty sure this isn’t going to end well unless he becomes more flexible. That is a characteristic not shown at Swansea. 
Like I said I hope I am wrong. 

You are wrong. At least according to a Swansea fan who was on here very recently. Said that Swansea went 7 wins in 9 at the back end of last season and he put it down to Martin being flexible by changing formation and going more direct.

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AlexLaw76

AlexLaw76

Posted
Posted

Whether he will be flexible or so. One thing is clear, not being significant challengers for the top 2 positions will be a failure with this squad (which will only get weaker every transfer window in the champ)

  • Like 4
saintant

saintant

Posted
Posted
3 hours ago, Osvaldorama said:


Ok so you’re a real saints fan but just a completely unreasonable one. Makes sense. 
 

It’s absolutely outrageous to be saying that martin’s system is no good. He’s had 5 - FIVE - games with a constantly changing line up due to transfers in & out. And we looked good in 4 of them!
 

I think it’s remarkable that he’s already stamped a new style on the team in such a short time - something our previous managers failed to do.  
 

If we lose the next ten games then you may have a point. But why don’t you wait and see what happens FFS

To be fair even RM has admitted he's not been happy with most of our performances. I got the impression he thought the only game we played up to standard was Sheff Wed.

  • Like 2
AlexLaw76

AlexLaw76

Posted
Posted

Here are some more stats...but they mean nothing, right?

Southampton ranks in the Championship this season:

◉ 70.2% Average possession (1st)

◉ 10 Goals (T-3rd)

◉ 315 Progressive passes (1st)

◉ 131 Progressive carries (1st)

◉ 28 Shots on target (T-3rd)

◉ 3,423 Completed passes (1st)

◉ 89.3% Pass accuracy (1st)

◉ 4,398 Touches (1st)

◉ 2,271 Touches in middle 3rd (1st)

◉ 1,309 Touches in attacking 3rd (1st)

◉ 58 Successful take ons

◉ 134 Touches in opponents box (1st)

◉ 7,156 Progression distance in yds (1st)

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Yorkshire Saint

Yorkshire Saint

Posted
Posted
12 minutes ago, AlexLaw76 said:

Here are some more stats...but they mean nothing, right?

Southampton ranks in the Championship this season:

◉ 70.2% Average possession (1st)

◉ 10 Goals (T-3rd)

◉ 315 Progressive passes (1st)

◉ 131 Progressive carries (1st)

◉ 28 Shots on target (T-3rd)

◉ 3,423 Completed passes (1st)

◉ 89.3% Pass accuracy (1st)

◉ 4,398 Touches (1st)

◉ 2,271 Touches in middle 3rd (1st)

◉ 1,309 Touches in attacking 3rd (1st)

◉ 58 Successful take ons

◉ 134 Touches in opponents box (1st)

◉ 7,156 Progression distance in yds (1st)

Most goals conceded- 1st

Most goalkeeper mistakes - 1st 

😇😏

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Osvaldorama

Osvaldorama

Posted
Posted
9 hours ago, Long Shot said:

“We looked good in four of them”.

I beg to differ. We have actually had 6 games (you conveniently forgot Gillingham) and I reckon we looked good against a poor Sheffield Wed and average v Plymouth, QPR and Norwich although I accept the points we got owing to last minute goals made our start look better than our performances. 
You are right 6 games is not enough to properly judge a manager (although Jones was a dead man walking after the same nos). But I have listened to and spoken to Swansea fans and there wasn’t much angst at his leaving which speaks volumes. I was sceptical when he was appointed. I was at Hillsborough and came away thinking perhaps he has something but what I’ve seen since has brought about the return of my scepticism. Maybe I am “being unreasonable” to be so judgemental so quickly but not being a fan of possession tip tappy sideways football I am  pretty sure this isn’t going to end well unless he becomes more flexible. That is a characteristic not shown at Swansea. 
Like I said I hope I am wrong. 


I didn’t forget Gillingham. The cup game was him giving fringe players a chance to stake a claim in the team. None of them did.
That was good management. He gave the whole squad a chance to prove themselves. 

It’s not his fault if the players brought in before his tenure are all absolutely shit. 
 

With how shit we were do you really expect a manager to come in and win every game? You are completely deluded mate. 
 

All reasonable fans are looking for are promising signs and things to build on. And there are PLENTY of those already. 

  • Like 1
Whitey Grandad

Whitey Grandad

Posted
Posted
3 hours ago, AlexLaw76 said:

Here are some more stats...but they mean nothing, right?

Southampton ranks in the Championship this season:

◉ 70.2% Average possession (1st)

◉ 10 Goals (T-3rd)

◉ 315 Progressive passes (1st)

◉ 131 Progressive carries (1st)

◉ 28 Shots on target (T-3rd)

◉ 3,423 Completed passes (1st)

◉ 89.3% Pass accuracy (1st)

◉ 4,398 Touches (1st)

◉ 2,271 Touches in middle 3rd (1st)

◉ 1,309 Touches in attacking 3rd (1st)

◉ 58 Successful take ons

◉ 134 Touches in opponents box (1st)

◉ 7,156 Progression distance in yds (1st)

After five games? Really?

Of course they mean nothing.

  • Like 2
Long Shot

Long Shot

Posted
Posted
9 hours ago, Osvaldorama said:


I didn’t forget Gillingham. The cup game was him giving fringe players a chance to stake a claim in the team. None of them did.
That was good management. He gave the whole squad a chance to prove themselves. 

It’s not his fault if the players brought in before his tenure are all absolutely shit. 
 

With how shit we were do you really expect a manager to come in and win every game? You are completely deluded mate. 
 

All reasonable fans are looking for are promising signs and things to build on. And there are PLENTY of those already. 

If you can point out where I said I expected him to win every game then I would quite happily accept your accusations of being deluded. 
We all want him to succeed. If I am wrong and you are right then it’s win win and we are going up but you don’t seem to be able to contemplate this most plausible of men just might not be a very good manager. I know that hurts and I know it’s an unpopular opinion no one wants to hear. We will know more by Cmas. 
 

(incidentally when we beat Newport, away 8-0 , the team was made up of fringe players)

Wade Garrett

Wade Garrett

Posted
Posted

I think the biggest job the manager has is man-managing a squad that has had their morale destroyed last season by a succession of shit managers and some selfish wankers in the dressing room that, thankfully, have been moved on.

Martin isn’t an idiot.  He knows what the game is all about.  He has to be given time.

  • Like 15
Convict Colony

Convict Colony

Posted
Posted

Only QPR, Blackburn, Rotherham and Huddersfield have conceded more shots on target than us so far (24)

Baz has saved 50% of those shots and of those he hasn't he's had virtually no chance with the majority of them.

Also interestingly we have the most yellow cards in the league (21) so something fundamental needs to change defensively to stop shots and giving up yellows to try and stop counter attacks etc.

 

  • Like 2
VectisSaint

VectisSaint

Posted
Posted
20 minutes ago, Convict Colony said:

Only QPR, Blackburn, Rotherham and Huddersfield have conceded more shots on target than us so far (24)

Baz has saved 50% of those shots and of those he hasn't he's had virtually no chance with the majority of them.

Also interestingly we have the most yellow cards in the league (21) so something fundamental needs to change defensively to stop shots and giving up yellows to try and stop counter attacks etc.

 

To be fair many of the yellows were for time wasting, kicking the ball away etc, not all for stopping counter attacks, and is giving away a yellow for breaking up a counter attack necessarily a bad thing anyway, better than allowing a shot on target/conceding a goal.

  • Like 3
danjosaint

danjosaint

Posted
Posted

DISAPLINE, maybe like others have noted is he too pally with his players and there's a lack of discipline,  he mentioned players not doing the hard yards etc, not really taking on board instructions and making cheap silly fouls 

  • Confused 1
Thereisonlyonemickychannon

Thereisonlyonemickychannon

Posted
Posted
15 hours ago, AlexLaw76 said:

Here are some more stats...but they mean nothing, right?

Southampton ranks in the Championship this season:

◉ 70.2% Average possession (1st)

◉ 10 Goals (T-3rd)

◉ 315 Progressive passes (1st)

◉ 131 Progressive carries (1st)

◉ 28 Shots on target (T-3rd)

◉ 3,423 Completed passes (1st)

◉ 89.3% Pass accuracy (1st)

◉ 4,398 Touches (1st)

◉ 2,271 Touches in middle 3rd (1st)

◉ 1,309 Touches in attacking 3rd (1st)

◉ 58 Successful take ons

◉ 134 Touches in opponents box (1st)

◉ 7,156 Progression distance in yds (1st)

😆 🤣 😂 😹 😆 🤣 

And lost bloody 5-0 you numpty!!!

  • Confused 1
Osvaldorama

Osvaldorama

Posted
Posted
11 minutes ago, Thereisonlyonemickychannon said:

😆 🤣 😂 😹 😆 🤣 

And lost bloody 5-0 you numpty!!!

But again it shows there are things going well and there is a platform to build from.  
 

It’s not all shite like under previous 3 managers. If he was in his interviews saying “yeah we played fantastic and were really unlucky” I’d be worried too. 
 

But he has clearly stated the issues which we can all see and is likely going to work on them. I am shocked at the negativity on here tbh 

 

 

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danjosaint

danjosaint

Posted
Posted (edited)

It's ok saying its not as bad as RS NJ but they were in premier league albeit with a couple of better players,  but RM has a very capable squad , if he served up those tactics in the Premier league 9v0 would no longer be the worst score, there is no need for the hipster inverted full backs or any over complicated tactics, 4231 all day long and get that formation working properly 

Edited by danjosaint
  • Like 1
Bad Wolf

Bad Wolf

Posted
Posted
1 hour ago, Thereisonlyonemickychannon said:

😆 🤣 😂 😹 😆 🤣 

And lost bloody 5-0 you numpty!!!

If we win the league, our incredibly supportive fanbase are STILL going to be harping on about that. I'd have been quite happy to have 10 points from the first 5 games. How we got them and how much the one defeat was by is irrelevant.

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Mr X

Mr X

Posted
Posted
32 minutes ago, ally_uk said:

Jesus wept! Least give him a few more games... 

I will see what shape we are in at Xmas before righting him off, we need to be in good shape by then though and not letting in 2+ goals every game  

stknowle

stknowle

Posted
Posted
4 hours ago, Thereisonlyonemickychannon said:

Martin out. Very strange haircut and combing method. 

Agree, his haircut is odd. He absolutely should be given time to get it right though.

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Dusic

Dusic

Posted
Posted
17 hours ago, Whitey Grandad said:

After five games? Really?

Of course they mean nothing.

At the very least its evidence of a manager and coaching team being able to instill a clear style of play which they have stated they would do.

That in itself is an achievement a lot of managers never accomplish over much longer tenures.

  • Like 3
manji

manji

Posted
Posted
On 09/09/2023 at 13:07, The Kraken said:

You are wrong. At least according to a Swansea fan who was on here very recently. Said that Swansea went 7 wins in 9 at the back end of last season and he put it down to Martin being flexible by changing formation and going more direct.

And again if anyone had bothered to watch Martins very first interview. He said he would adapt formation where necessary. It’s the usual mouth breathers latching onto one comment. Analysing the nuances is far too complicated.

going on about the Sunderland game is dumb as fuck. 12 hours after the transfer window shut. Some of the players that signed a week previously had probably only had a couple of training sessions.

Incidently Leics lost as well and their message board was dripping with piss.

  • Like 3
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Miltonaggro

Miltonaggro

Posted
Posted
12 hours ago, Maggie May said:

The fan base hasn’t been this divided over a manager’s haircut since the appointment of Mark Wotte.

I think that we need to give the haircut reasonable time. The water in Southampton is notoriously hard and chalky and Martin said in his first press conference that it will take some time for the follicles to adapt to a the way he wants them to lay. Usual bedwetters on here criticising the state of his parting at Sunderland when he had to adapt to a hotel hairdryer and gel purchased at the motorway services only 24 hours before.  Getting Nicky Clarke in as a split ends coach was a masterstroke by L'Oréal Republic and Vidal Sasoon wasn’t built in a day. 

  • Haha 9
Kermitzasaint

Kermitzasaint

Posted
Posted
On 09/09/2023 at 14:26, Convict Colony said:

Surely we need to give him this break and probably until nov before we can judge the system and his flexibility with it better, too early to call it flawed at present.

Has the system worked successfully at other clubs under Martin? 

Thats the question imho

Kermitzasaint

Kermitzasaint

Posted
Posted
On 09/09/2023 at 17:32, Osvaldorama said:


Ok so you’re a real saints fan but just a completely unreasonable one. Makes sense. 
 

It’s absolutely outrageous to be saying that martin’s system is no good. He’s had 5 - FIVE - games with a constantly changing line up due to transfers in & out. And we looked good in 4 of them!
 

I think it’s remarkable that he’s already stamped a new style on the team in such a short time - something our previous managers failed to do.  
 

If we lose the next ten games then you may have a point. But why don’t you wait and see what happens FFS

You keep acting as if Martin has never coached elsewhere. It's amusing albeit confusing. 

 

Martin is known to be flawed at his previous clubs. Those same flaws exist now with us.

You claim to be reasonable whilst acting nonsensical. 

  • Confused 1
CB Fry

CB Fry

Posted
Posted
4 minutes ago, Kermitzasaint said:

You keep acting as if Martin has never coached elsewhere. It's amusing albeit confusing. 

 

Martin is known to be flawed at his previous clubs. Those same flaws exist now with us.

You claim to be reasonable whilst acting nonsensical. 

I fucking said we should have appointed a team manager with no flaws. I fucking said that. FFS

  • Haha 8
Miltonaggro

Miltonaggro

Posted
Posted
17 minutes ago, CB Fry said:

I fucking said we should have appointed a team manager with no flaws. I fucking said that. FFS

You did, this message board is a paragon of harsh reality. 

  • Like 1
Osvaldorama

Osvaldorama

Posted
Posted
4 hours ago, Kermitzasaint said:

You keep acting as if Martin has never coached elsewhere. It's amusing albeit confusing. 

 

Martin is known to be flawed at his previous clubs. Those same flaws exist now with us.

You claim to be reasonable whilst acting nonsensical. 


Yeah you’re right. You’ve given him 5 games and already slating him. 
 

You are so calm and reasonable and not a complete wet wipe at all 

  • Haha 6

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