Russell Martin

[Convict Colony]

I would like to know 2 things about our play - all FM experts feel free to share how it works in the game.

1. How do high possession teams create clear cut chances before teams reset and get bodies back - at the moment i think we are stuck in this phase of walking the ball forwards too slowly and then smacking shots/crosses into blockers, i saw pepe say his job is controlling his team for 3/4 of the pitch and then the players do the rest in the final 1/4, are our forwards currently too shit ?

2. How do high possession teams stop counters/quick transitions ? - looking at something i saw the other day i saw a DM drop in with CBs to make a 3 man line and have the 2 inverted wingers as midfielders to be the 1st screen - is this what we are trying to do ? and are we doing it but the CB's not spread wide enough to cover the full backs positions ?

Genuinely curious about this, rus if you post please advise.

 

 

Edited 5 September, 2023 by Convict Colony

[verlaine1979]

Possession football works when you have players willing and capable of taking the ball around their opposing number, or at least carrying it forward far enough to compress space and create options. It doesn't work when all you're doing is standing still trying to pass safely to players who aren't under pressure. Watching Brighton this weekend, Gilmour has stepped seamlessly into MacAllister's role, picking up the ball from the defense and carrying it forward quickly. They don't have Dunk and Webster twatting about waiting for space to magically open up.

[Dark Munster]

57 minutes ago, The Kraken said:

Meh. I’d had enough of the Premier League for a bit, and I never expected Saints to run away with anything this season. I’d definitely like to see us tighten up much more, who knows, maybe RM has learnt from past mistakes and will put them right (hopeful thinking but it’s very early days). Sunderland aside I’ve found the games quite refreshing to watch although the possession -based domination certainly does irk some who want a bit more of a balanced approach that can go direct when required. We’ll see!

That's all well and good enjoying it while we are big fish in a small pond, but if we're stuck here for more than a season or two we lose our better players, no more parachute money, and we descend into the level of the rest of the dross.

Promotion asap has to be the objective, and I am worried that SR have made yet another bad managerial appointment.

[No Saint David]

1 hour ago, Miltonaggro said:

Makes you wonder if the upturn iin form coincided with a covert initial approach from Saints - pressure off and the doctrine eased off somewhat. 

The upturn coincided with him changing things, going back 4, kore direct. Or as many of us saw it, using our squad more effectively. He'd done it before Christmas when we won 6 of 7 but he reverted when Burnley thrashed us. Then we won 3 games in the next 21.  He is arrogantly stubborn. He won't change easily. And you have better players than we did, a decent voucher should have you top 4 minimum I'd say.

[qwertyell]

1 hour ago, No Saint David said:

A view from Wales, we gave Martin 2 years and apart from the last 9 games it was the slowest, most boring football many had endured. Martin is a very stubborn man. He allegedly said he'd rather lose playing his way than win playing a different way. To play his way you need the top players.  Have you seen a lot of passing in your own box that causes problems, have you seen too much passing backwards from beyond the halfway line, have you seen slow, predictable football?  That is what we got at Swansea for 2 years and many of us were glad you came in for him.

This is not a wind up BTW, I am deadly serious. Many of us wanted him gone, I you can be bothered have a good look at our forum, it's all there though you'll need to dig a bit now.

Good luck.

Well, I went early doors and declared he'd turn out to be a Poundland Brendan Rodgers, during the Norwich game, and I'm sticking with that (for now).

It's surely not a coincidence that none of his teams can defend at all. Which makes the unwavering adherence to his "philosophy" an exercise in futility, as it clearly doesn't work in at least one fundamentally crucial way.

I don't see how he can be so self-satisfied with his approach that has thus far yielded fuck all across three clubs. It's all smoke and mirrors. Propaganda football, as Wee Gordon might say, between mouthfuls of almost expired yoghurt. 

[InvictaSaint]

1 hour ago, Dark Munster said:

That's all well and good enjoying it while we are big fish in a small pond, but if we're stuck here for more than a season or two we lose our better players, no more parachute money, and we descend into the level of the rest of the dross.

Promotion asap has to be the objective, and I am worried that SR have made yet another bad managerial appointment.

But again….if we’re below top 6 at Christmas, they will know they have a decision to make. SR’s investment doesn’t improve by our staying in the Championship. We have to go up. SR know this and have publicly said as much; RM knows this; Wilcox knows this. So if it’s not looking likely around early Jan, they will have to act. Either way - we hope - Saints will benefit. 

Edited 5 September, 2023 by InvictaSaint

[trousers]

1 hour ago, qwertyell said:

Well, I went early doors and declared he'd turn out to be a Poundland Brendan Rodgers, during the Norwich game, and I'm sticking with that (for now).

It's surely not a coincidence that none of his teams can defend at all. Which makes the unwavering adherence to his "philosophy" an exercise in futility, as it clearly doesn't work in at least one fundamentally crucial way.

I don't see how he can be so self-satisfied with his approach that has thus far yielded fuck all across three clubs. It's all smoke and mirrors. Propaganda football, as Wee Gordon might say, between mouthfuls of almost expired yoghurt. 

Isn't this 'possession football' malarkey more about how SR/Wilcox want the team/club to play and Martin is simply a means-to-an-end manager that fits their strategy? In other words, I don't think it's a case of laying any blame on Martin for the way we play, he's just fitting in with what the owners & director of football want?

[trousers]

1 hour ago, No Saint David said:

The upturn coincided with him changing things, going back 4, kore direct. Or as many of us saw it, using our squad more effectively. He'd done it before Christmas when we won 6 of 7 but he reverted when Burnley thrashed us. Then we won 3 games in the next 21.  He is arrogantly stubborn. He won't change easily. And you have better players than we did, a decent voucher should have you top 4 minimum I'd say.

I've got a WH Smiths book token if that's any good? 

[No Saint David]

2 hours ago, Maggie May said:

Bet they’re begging for him back now, though. Seven wins in the last nine at the end of the season to a winless start under Duff.

Nope.  Duff has a lot to change, it won't happen quickly. We have a lot if new players too, 4 of them couldn't play last game. Anyway, it's not their clubs, it's our clubs so we'll both want our manager to succeed. Good luck guys, except when you play us.

[trousers]

2 hours ago, Convict Colony said:

I would like to know 2 things about our play - all FM experts feel free to share how it works in the game.

1. How do high possession teams create clear cut chances before teams reset and get bodies back - at the moment i think we are stuck in this phase of walking the ball forwards too slowly and then smacking shots/crosses into blockers, i saw pepe say his job is controlling his team for 3/4 of the pitch and then the players do the rest in the final 1/4, are our forwards currently too shit ?

2. How do high possession teams stop counters/quick transitions ? - looking at something i saw the other day i saw a DM drop in with CBs to make a 3 man line and have the 2 inverted wingers as midfielders to be the 1st screen - is this what we are trying to do ? and are we doing it but the CB's not spread wide enough to cover the full backs positions ?

Genuinely curious about this, rus if you post please advise.

 

 

Someone posted this the other day, which may answer some of your questions?

https://www.skysports.com/football/news/15126/10549782/does-pep-guardiola-have-the-formula-for-stopping-the-counter-attack

And also found this: https://www.coachesvoice.com/cv/counter-pressing-gegenpressing-football-tactics-explained-klopp-guardiola-bielsa-hasenhuttl/#:~:text=Pep Guardiola&text=The use of full-backs,press following a defensive transition.

 

[verlaine1979]

2 hours ago, Convict Colony said:

I would like to know 2 things about our play - all FM experts feel free to share how it works in the game.

1. How do high possession teams create clear cut chances before teams reset and get bodies back - at the moment i think we are stuck in this phase of walking the ball forwards too slowly and then smacking shots/crosses into blockers, i saw pepe say his job is controlling his team for 3/4 of the pitch and then the players do the rest in the final 1/4, are our forwards currently too shit ?

2. How do high possession teams stop counters/quick transitions ? - looking at something i saw the other day i saw a DM drop in with CBs to make a 3 man line and have the 2 inverted wingers as midfielders to be the 1st screen - is this what we are trying to do ? and are we doing it but the CB's not spread wide enough to cover the full backs positions ?

Genuinely curious about this, rus if you post please advise.

 

 

I think our issue has long been that we're utterly shit on the counter attack, both through a lack of pace throughout the side, and a lack of clinical decision-making and finishing. Even the most possession-hungry teams don't spurn the opportunity to pour forward when the ball is won back in position promising for a break, but we're just terrible at it. So all we get is the slow build up from positions when the ball finds its way back to our keeper/CBs, with none of the dash and drive that marks out the teams that are actually successful at playing this way.

[woodsaint1]

53 minutes ago, trousers said:

Isn't this 'possession football' malarkey more about how SR/Wilcox want the team/club to play and Martin is simply a means-to-an-end manager that fits their strategy? In other words, I don't think it's a case of laying any blame on Martin for the way we play, he's just fitting in with what the owners & director of football want?

How can you not blame the manager for the way we play. Yes Wilcox wants to push the possession model, but RM has been employing this style of play for a while. Hes hardly doing it just to 'fit in'

[woodsaint1]

Burnley were sitting 16th with 6 points after their first 5 games last season.

Lets see where we are after the next 5 when some of the new players have had time to bed in.

Long, long way to go, but we need to drastically improve defensively

[Golac's Cunning Stunts]

1 hour ago, trousers said:

Isn't this 'possession football' malarkey more about how SR/Wilcox want the team/club to play and Martin is simply a means-to-an-end manager that fits their strategy? In other words, I don't think it's a case of laying any blame on Martin for the way we play, he's just fitting in with what the owners & director of football want?

It may be that Sports Direct wanted to play this way and then they have found a manager who fits the bill. However, Martin's philosophy directly aligns with the way we play. He is not fitting in with them - he is completely bought into it. Met up with a pal from years ago tonight. Him and his two sons are big Swans fans. They described what they went through and it already fits what we have seen as Saints fans. Massive amounts of possession, but still losing to teams who employed robust counterattacking football, the feeling that every time the oppo attacks you will concede, fullbacks pushed way too far up the pitch, no real strength in midfield, the feeling they would concede every time a cross or corner came in.

They said, and it has been repeated a few times now, that he kept saying he could have pulled it off, but never had the backing or the quality of players at his disposal. Now he does, and we will see won't we.

[trousers]

46 minutes ago, woodsaint1 said:

How can you not blame the manager for the way we play. Yes Wilcox wants to push the possession model, but RM has been employing this style of play for a while. Hes hardly doing it just to 'fit in'

Isn't the fact that Martin has been 'doing it for while' the very reason why SR/Wilcox employed him in the first place? i.e. If Martin's approach didn't fit the way SR/Wilcox want to play then they wouldn't have employed him?

#chicken #egg

Edited 5 September, 2023 by trousers

[Long Shot]

9 hours ago, woodsaint1 said:

Burnley were sitting 16th with 6 points after their first 5 games last season.

Lets see where we are after the next 5 when some of the new players have had time to bed in.

Long, long way to go, but we need to drastically improve defensively

We are not Burnley and Martin is not Kompany

[Smirking_Saint]

On 03/09/2023 at 06:21, benjii said:

I like what we do on the ball. Yesterday the line up was wrong. I'm confident that once all our forwards are available and settled and we have people in their correct position we will score plenty of goals.

We have also added some height to the squad with Ross Stewart and THB. Again, once we set up with our best XI we should be OK at set pieces.

Aside from individual errors, the big issue, which has been obvious in pretty much every match is the lack of midfield cover for the back 4. Simply, our midfield is too high as a unit. We absolutely need to calm it down and have someone goal side of the ball at all times. Being turned over and having all midfielders the wrong side of the ball really isn't acceptable (unless there's a couple of minutes left and we're chasing the game).

We need Charles to sit deep. We need Downes or Smallbone to also play disciplined and then we can have Alcaraz or whoever charging beyond the forwards. 

This is exactly it for me, I think its a good system in theory and is/will be conducive to a good season but so far what I have seen is a team that over commits too much

People have talked about how he is trying to emulate pep, and to an extent he is, but Peps sides, although agreed are brimming with talent, tend to be a bit more patient and will have enough bodies behind the ball if and when turnovers occur

Far too often the only men back for us are our CBs, and even then one of them eventually progresses with the ball… I think I said as early as the reading game that I was worried we over commit at times… and here we are

He needs to add more resilience and fast

[Smirking_Saint]

13 hours ago, Convict Colony said:

I would like to know 2 things about our play - all FM experts feel free to share how it works in the game.

1. How do high possession teams create clear cut chances before teams reset and get bodies back - at the moment i think we are stuck in this phase of walking the ball forwards too slowly and then smacking shots/crosses into blockers, i saw pepe say his job is controlling his team for 3/4 of the pitch and then the players do the rest in the final 1/4, are our forwards currently too shit ?

2. How do high possession teams stop counters/quick transitions ? - looking at something i saw the other day i saw a DM drop in with CBs to make a 3 man line and have the 2 inverted wingers as midfielders to be the 1st screen - is this what we are trying to do ? and are we doing it but the CB's not spread wide enough to cover the full backs positions ?

Genuinely curious about this, rus if you post please advise.

 

 

1. A combination of things really, we don’t ‘counter attack’ to any real degree, so we need to be slow and methodic and attempt to pull the backline apart to create space, its why we’ll end up seeing so many touches in the final third but with no penetration. We need a mix of good distance shooters and technical dribblers, I assume thats why we were happy to release Tella and pushed for Roberts as the former isn’t a good dribbler

2. You just need more organisation really, players need to be drilled in that they have to track back immediately, we’re lazy at that. But equally you need your CBs and No.6 to be behind the ball if it breaks.. we weren’t on Saturday, both Downes and Smallbone were in and around the opposition 18 yrd box. Those three need to be good 1 v 1 defenders too, to slow down the attack, we probably aren’t really

Lastly.. the wingbacks are, like you say supposed to aid in stopping an attack, the issue is when you invert them you give up the wings, and thats why we see SO much come down our flanks and it unfortunately exaggerates the fact that we’re piss poor at defending crosses

 

 

[Dig Dig]

2 hours ago, Long Shot said:

We are not Burnley and Martin is not Kompany

No doubt though that had we made a similar start to Burnley with Kompany as the manager, the squealing on here would be rife. Wonder how long before the first Kompany out posts appear on the Burnley forums after their tactically inept start to the premier league campaign?  

[AlexLaw76]

6 minutes ago, Dig Dig said:

No doubt though that had we made a similar start to Burnley with Kompany as the manager, the squealing on here would be rife. Wonder how long before the first Kompany out posts appear on the Burnley forums after their tactically inept start to the premier league campaign?  

Has the forum decided it wants Martin out?

[saintant]

Nothing wrong with passing the ball to your own players - if that's possession football then I'm for it. However, it has to be with a purpose and done with a quick tempo. Pass and move, get players taking up positions between the lines and we'll make the game look a lot more simple and create more chances than we are doing currently. We seem to be trying to play out from the back but without any kind of tempo or urgency then look surprised when we get picked off. If you play walking football at the back like we do you are asking for trouble because opponents will quickly latch onto this and press hard leading to panic and errors. I'd like to see us play a mix of playing out from the back and pinging longer balls down the flanks or into the channels - there's more than one way to skin a cat and it makes us less predictable and one dimensional.

[AngusHyd]

A dreadful performance and there had been signs it was coming. The inability to hold a lead has been really frustrating, and this is down to inept defenders and at times an overly exposed defensive line. I do think that RM will get us plenty of wins and we will be up at the top end challenging for promotion but along the way there will be some really dreadful performances. It is still early days with RM as our manager, and I think he's done a good job so far in creating a new style of football and a better atmosphere amongst the players. Hopefully, he can bed in the new players and start to rectify the huge gaps in defence. 

[The Kraken]

39 minutes ago, AlexLaw76 said:

Has the forum decided it wants Martin out?

I don’t think the forum is a single entity.

[Convict Colony]

cheers dudes nice to read tactical stuff for a change instead of "he's shit" "we are shit" "they are shit"

[Holmes_and_Watson]

6 minutes ago, The Kraken said:

I don’t think the forum is a single entity.

Except in times of national emergency, when all the posters merge to form Mega Forum! 🙂

[AlexLaw76]

12 minutes ago, The Kraken said:

I don’t think the forum is a single entity.

OK, other than the one post that was locked immediately, unsure anyone, let alone collectively, has demanded or suggested "Martin out"

[Wade Garrett]

Possession football is ok as  long as we are moving the ball quickly.  To do that, the players need to move quickly.  Man  City players always have multiple passing options because they work fucking hard.

RMs comment about players not running after the Sunderland game suggests the reason why we were so ponderous.  He needs to drop a few and crack some heads.  Lazy fuckers.

[revolution saint]

2 hours ago, saintant said:

Nothing wrong with passing the ball to your own players - if that's possession football then I'm for it. However, it has to be with a purpose and done with a quick tempo. Pass and move, get players taking up positions between the lines and we'll make the game look a lot more simple and create more chances than we are doing currently. We seem to be trying to play out from the back but without any kind of tempo or urgency then look surprised when we get picked off. If you play walking football at the back like we do you are asking for trouble because opponents will quickly latch onto this and press hard leading to panic and errors. I'd like to see us play a mix of playing out from the back and pinging longer balls down the flanks or into the channels - there's more than one way to skin a cat and it makes us less predictable and one dimensional.

Yes, agree with all this and we definitely need to play with a higher tempo.  I'm still giving Martin the benefit of the doubt - always thought that August and September would be tough months with the uncertainty around players, new players coming in and all whilst still getting to grips with a new style of playing.  I'm actually surprised we've done as well as we have done. 

Fairly hopeful we'll start playing a few long balls to mix things up - looking at THB I'm not sure he's ever passed the ball less than 50 yards and if we've got the pace of Sulemana, Fraser and Arma then there will be opportunities to exploit that. 

Edited 6 September, 2023 by revolution saint

[notnowcato]

18 hours ago, No Saint David said:

A view from Wales, we gave Martin 2 years and apart from the last 9 games it was the slowest, most boring football many had endured. Martin is a very stubborn man. He allegedly said he'd rather lose playing his way than win playing a different way. To play his way you need the top players.  Have you seen a lot of passing in your own box that causes problems, have you seen too much passing backwards from beyond the halfway line, have you seen slow, predictable football?  That is what we got at Swansea for 2 years and many of us were glad you came in for him.

This is not a wind up BTW, I am deadly serious. Many of us wanted him gone, I you can be bothered have a good look at our forum, it's all there though you'll need to dig a bit now.

Good luck.

Welcome to the board.

At what point does a Swans fan stop giving a shit about a previous manager?

[notnowcato]

18 hours ago, Miltonaggro said:

Makes you wonder if the upturn iin form coincided with a covert initial approach from Saints - pressure off and the doctrine eased off somewhat. 

Fuck me, and I thought the transfer window was silly season.

[notnowcato]

RM is not a prophet but he was pretty bang on with what we could expect and what he was hoping to achieve in the short term: 

1.  Patience, the change being implemented will take time.

2. There will be bumps along the way.

3. Some fans won't like it.

4. Whilst going through the change, somehow, need to keep the team taking points and staying in touch.

[Midfield_General]

Yeah but he missed out:

5. We'll get humped 5-0 by some probable mid-table also-rans and consider ourselves lucky it wasn't eight

6. We'll concede basically every shot that comes in on target

7. We'll defend like a cubs team with ten players in the opposition half for corners, and fail to respond in-game even when the problems are basic and glaringly obvious to everyone, including the opposition's manager 

[Smirking_Saint]

36 minutes ago, Midfield_General said:

Yeah but he missed out:

5. We'll get humped 5-0 by some probable mid-table also-rans and consider ourselves lucky it wasn't eight

6. We'll concede basically every shot that comes in on target

7. We'll defend like a cubs team with ten players in the opposition half for corners, and fail to respond in-game even when the problems are basic and glaringly obvious to everyone, including the opposition's manager 

In fairness, the Sara (whatever his name was) and the Colback efforts.. even the Sunderland 3rd were all pretty special efforts and Im not really overly critical of what happened there, Im much more annoyed about the fact that we were all at sea for basically every other goal Sunderland scored

Overall Im happy with what RM is building, its a system that will work I think, Im sick and tired of hearing we need to pass it with ‘pace’ and ‘urgency’… no.. we don’t, overall our ability on the ball and his possession tactics are fine

The two glaring issues are based around how we react, or more pertinently, how we’re set up to react when we lose possession, we don’t press particularly well for a start, but more importantly we need to do two things;

1. Better organisation IN possession.. in the ball we’re incredibly fluid positionally.. thats fine, it creates plenty of options, but when the ball is turned over our structure is tragic, we simply need a bit more rigidity in atleast the CBs and No.6 to help curb counter attacks, we’re far too open in that regard

2. Players need to work harder in defence.. we’re lazy and it seems they just pass on responsibility to others… possession football isn’t hugely taxing when done right, so RM is right, when the ball is turned over they need to put the running in to get back behind the ball

 

Again you can argue we defend our flanks really fucking badly… and I honestly don’t see that changing so we need to get better at defending crosses one way or another but ultimately actually marking players might help….

[notnowcato]

1 hour ago, Midfield_General said:

Yeah but he missed out:

5. We'll get humped 5-0 by some probable mid-table also-rans and consider ourselves lucky it wasn't eight

6. We'll concede basically every shot that comes in on target

7. We'll defend like a cubs team with ten players in the opposition half for corners, and fail to respond in-game even when the problems are basic and glaringly obvious to everyone, including the opposition's manager 

Congratulations on continuing the number sequence, the rest is bollocks.

[woodsaint1]

7 hours ago, Long Shot said:

We are not Burnley and Martin is not Kompany

There could be similarities in managerial ability.....we just don't know yet. Kompany did next to nothing in two years at Anderlecht where the expectation was to win the league. The Burnley job came with some PL quality/experienced players and parachute payments and he performed well. Martin has done very little at MK Dons/Swansea but now he has better players at his disposal and better financial backing. Let's see how he gets on (i.e after a season as opposed to 5 games)

[trousers]

Football is too results driven apparently... 🤦

 

[Patrick Bateman]

15 minutes ago, trousers said:

Football is too results driven apparently... 🤦

 

It's the taking part that counts. 

[saintant]

1 hour ago, Smirking_Saint said:

In fairness, the Sara (whatever his name was) and the Colback efforts.. even the Sunderland 3rd were all pretty special efforts and Im not really overly critical of what happened there, Im much more annoyed about the fact that we were all at sea for basically every other goal Sunderland scored

Overall Im happy with what RM is building, its a system that will work I think, Im sick and tired of hearing we need to pass it with ‘pace’ and ‘urgency’… no.. we don’t, overall our ability on the ball and his possession tactics are fine

The two glaring issues are based around how we react, or more pertinently, how we’re set up to react when we lose possession, we don’t press particularly well for a start, but more importantly we need to do two things;

1. Better organisation IN possession.. in the ball we’re incredibly fluid positionally.. thats fine, it creates plenty of options, but when the ball is turned over our structure is tragic, we simply need a bit more rigidity in atleast the CBs and No.6 to help curb counter attacks, we’re far too open in that regard

2. Players need to work harder in defence.. we’re lazy and it seems they just pass on responsibility to others… possession football isn’t hugely taxing when done right, so RM is right, when the ball is turned over they need to put the running in to get back behind the ball

 

Again you can argue we defend our flanks really fucking badly… and I honestly don’t see that changing so we need to get better at defending crosses one way or another but ultimately actually marking players might help….

You seem to be an advocate of the type of slow, dreary football most of us detest. Walking football is played by 50 year old men. I'm sure most of us want to see the ball moved crisply and with purpose, we want to see flying wingers taking on opponents and players charging into the box to get on the end of high and low crosses. Football is not a game of chess, it's meant to generate emotions, passion and excitement. Watch all the best sides in the world and they get you off your seat - they don't stroll around tip-tapping five yard safe passes just to say they play possession football. Possession with a purpose is what I want to see.

[Whitey Grandad]

1 minute ago, saintant said:

You seem to be an advocate of the type of slow, dreary football most of us detest. Walking football is played by 50 year old men. I'm sure most of us want to see the ball moved crisply and with purpose, we want to see flying wingers taking on opponents and players charging into the box to get on the end of high and low crosses. Football is not a game of chess, it's meant to generate emotions, passion and excitement. Watch all the best sides in the world and they get you off your seat - they don't stroll around tip-tapping five yard safe passes just to say they play possession football. Possession with a purpose is what I want to see.

As Danny Blanchflower said, "...The game is about glory, it is about doing things in style and with a flourish, about going out and beating the lot, not waiting for them to die of boredom."

[saintant]

19 minutes ago, trousers said:

Football is too results driven apparently... 🤦

 

Let's stop publishing league tables then. Football is totally results driven whether some players like it or not - those that don't are probably playing the wrong sport.

[CB Fry]

39 minutes ago, trousers said:

Football is too results driven apparently... 🤦

 

It depends if he means the current culture of death by stats.

If players are sat in rooms being briefed about successful turnovers or transitions or minutes in opponents half or whatever then that probably is a ball ache.

As we know some stats are worthless, like 68% possession when you get gubbed 5 nil.

[Saint Fan CaM]

38 minutes ago, trousers said:

Football is too results driven apparently... 🤦

 

Let’s break that down. Players don’t care about results when they’re not good enough to win games of football. Well done Manning…well done. FFS, if I wanted this kind of spectator sport I’d just go watch the local 5 year olds have a kick about an “all inclusive, taking part that matters” game. Actually come to think of it, it might be more fun.

[Challenger]

27 minutes ago, saintant said:

Let's stop publishing league tables then. Football is totally results driven whether some players like it or not - those that don't are probably playing the wrong sport.

Certainly are if they expect an obscene salary for doing do.

[Whitey Grandad]

Why all the criticism? 

Just feel the love

[Convict Colony]

1 hour ago, trousers said:

Football is too results driven apparently... 🤦

 

players want to get get paid a fortune and not have the consequences that goes with that.

Fuck off mate

[Smirking_Saint]

55 minutes ago, saintant said:

You seem to be an advocate of the type of slow, dreary football most of us detest. Walking football is played by 50 year old men. I'm sure most of us want to see the ball moved crisply and with purpose, we want to see flying wingers taking on opponents and players charging into the box to get on the end of high and low crosses. Football is not a game of chess, it's meant to generate emotions, passion and excitement. Watch all the best sides in the world and they get you off your seat - they don't stroll around tip-tapping five yard safe passes just to say they play possession football. Possession with a purpose is what I want to see.

And yet in recent history the most dominant sides have been coached by Pep Guardiola… an advocate of possession based football

And currently, Brighton.. a team rightly lauded for punching well above their weight… play possession based football

Burnley won this division playing.. you guessed it.. possession based football

Ive not seen the figures this week yet but last week we had the best xG in the division, so from an attacking perspective we looked the best side in the Champ.. the issue isn’t about possession based football.. the issue is team structure

[once_bitterne]

21 hours ago, Convict Colony said:

I would like to know 2 things about our play - all FM experts feel free to share how it works in the game.

1. How do high possession teams create clear cut chances before teams reset and get bodies back - at the moment i think we are stuck in this phase of walking the ball forwards too slowly and then smacking shots/crosses into blockers, i saw pepe say his job is controlling his team for 3/4 of the pitch and then the players do the rest in the final 1/4, are our forwards currently too shit ?

2. How do high possession teams stop counters/quick transitions ? - looking at something i saw the other day i saw a DM drop in with CBs to make a 3 man line and have the 2 inverted wingers as midfielders to be the 1st screen - is this what we are trying to do ? and are we doing it but the CB's not spread wide enough to cover the full backs positions ?

Genuinely curious about this, rus if you post please advise.

 

 

I think you're asking a bit much for here.  TSW is a more get it in the mixer.

[Dig Dig]

Let's all start frothing at the mouth over a single quote without any other context added. 

[notnowcato]

57 minutes ago, saintant said:

You seem to be an advocate of the type of slow, dreary football most of us detest. Walking football is played by 50 year old men. I'm sure most of us want to see the ball moved crisply and with purpose, we want to see flying wingers taking on opponents and players charging into the box to get on the end of high and low crosses. Football is not a game of chess, it's meant to generate emotions, passion and excitement. Watch all the best sides in the world and they get you off your seat - they don't stroll around tip-tapping five yard safe passes just to say they play possession football. Possession with a purpose is what I want to see.

Possession with purpose... one of our forum cliches, bit like "a keeper should never get beaten at the near post" (or at all if you're between the sticks for us).

Anyway, given we're at the start of a transformation do you not think we need to master the possession bit before the crudely put "purpose" becomes more evident and realistic?  

 

[revolution saint]

17 minutes ago, Smirking_Saint said:

And yet in recent history the most dominant sides have been coached by Pep Guardiola… an advocate of possession based football

And currently, Brighton.. a team rightly lauded for punching well above their weight… play possession based football

Burnley won this division playing.. you guessed it.. possession based football

Ive not seen the figures this week yet but last week we had the best xG in the division, so from an attacking perspective we looked the best side in the Champ.. the issue isn’t about possession based football.. the issue is team structure

You do realise you can play possession football and still move the ball round quickly?  Possession football doesn't equal pedestrian football.