Russell Martin

[saintant]

1 hour ago, SNSUN said:

Still back him but he needs to prove this was a blip with a win against Leicester. The starting line up needs to be as strong as it can be: Baz, KWP, Bed, THD, Man, Charles, Downes, Charly, Fraser, AA, Adams currently IMO. He has two weeks to sort it. No excuses. Leicester also lost so they are beatable.

Two of those aren't close to being good enough from what I've seen so far. That's almost 20% of the team.

[SNSUN]

25 minutes ago, saintant said:

Two of those aren't close to being good enough from what I've seen so far. That's almost 20% of the team.

Which two?

[James G]

Sunderland played a 4231, so when Southampton pushed forward with Manning and kwp to expolit the space on the wings, Downes would have stepped back to cover the defence, but it leaves 4 against 3 when Sunderland push forward quickly

[saintant]

2 minutes ago, SNSUN said:

Which two?

I'll leave you to draw your own conclusions or, of course, you may think all 11 are fine.

[The very right reverend]

If Gavin Bazunu is Russell Martin's hill to die on he'll be gone long before Christmas.

[James G]

So, a 442 is difficult to triangulate, but a 4231 would work, where the two middle players move back so it's 4 vs 4, and it keeps the triangulation. Also, it would probably suit AA better in behind and you could have Che or the new guy up front

[SNSUN]

2 minutes ago, saintant said:

I'll leave you to draw your own conclusions or, of course, you may think all 11 are fine.

All XI are fine. If you mean Bazunu he's not going anywhere. He's first choice whether we like it or not... and who are the other options, McCarthy and Lumley. I don't rate Bazunu but he's still the best choice right now (although he does need to get his shit together). The rest are IMO what I would like to see against Leicester.

[The very right reverend]

If you mean Bazunu he's not going anywhere. He's first choice whether we like it or not... and who are the other options

 

 

Swallow your pride, accept you're wrong and bring in Kasper Schmeichel for the interim.

Edited 3 September, 2023 by The very right reverend
To quote a piece of another post.

[HKsaint]

1 hour ago, Saint Fan CaM said:

I have concern that he’ll keep trying to do the same thing. And continue to select Baz.

Sound familiar. Have you already said this last season? 

Edited 3 September, 2023 by HKsaint

[bpsaint]

14 minutes ago, saintant said:

I'll leave you to draw your own conclusions or, of course, you may think all 11 are fine.

Janny B and Manning are the two notable weak links in the outfield 10 for me.

Having slept on yesterdays result it’s still hugely disappointing but we likely had the most disruptive transfer window, and deadline day of most teams in the Championship. You can guarantee players had agents in their ear all the way up till late the Friday night and I wouldn’t be surprised if the whole mindset of the entire squad was affected as a result. Therefore i’m hoping to accept this was merely a blip and cut RM some slack.

That being said, we’ve had 2 years now of hearing various managers and players tell us a particular result was tough to take etc and they’re going to put it right but it never happens. If we don’t get a win, not a draw but a win, against Leicester then already I’ll have lost faith he’s the man to get us promoted. He’s already got egg on his face by nailing his colours to the mast regarding Bazunu despite every man and his dog knowing it’s a problem area. Fail to get a reaction out of a 5-0 loss and you’d have to question his “philosophy”.

[lambtiss]

Just watching the Rangers v Celtic match. Tackles flying in, nobody has time on the ball. Completely different to Saints nonchalant, half hearted pressing yesterday. Long John Silver could have strolled through our midfield. 

Its as if we've been told not to tackle

[Gloucester Saint]

In the next three games, the overriding priority has to be a clean sheet. Track the runners properly, reduce the crosses coming in and become much harder to beat. If we nick a goal somewhere for a 1-0 win, even better but the priority is to play dry. If the club needs to get a Winterburn or Dixon figure in short-term to get the back 4/5 tightly and systematically organised for the rest of the season then do it, worth every penny. At the moment, the level of disorganisation and chaos is moronic to not learn from and fix. Basics like closing down for the second goal yesterday, last week QPR and Colbeck, Sara v Norwich. Close the space down quicker. It’s just laziness early on in the game when everyone should fresh. Bazanu was guilty of it on the first goal yesterday too, that’s his ball, get to it first and if their striker is off on a stretcher because you clean him out, that’s how it is. As long you clearly get the ball first, it ain’t a foul. 

The number of crosses just allowed in with no effort whatsoever to close down (Sheffield Weds it was an issue second half, Norwich’s opener, Plymouth and yesterday x2) has been going on since Ralph lost the plot. Pochettino double sessions and pure drilling/practice will instil the right habits.

The possession football is fine but always has to be built upon two basics - win the midfield in the first 30 minutes and ensuring the defence is screened. The nice stuff can come only after that. Pep expects Rodri to dominate his battles and at present, Wilcox has to put his foot down about Downes and Charles, when fit, are automatic XI selections. Alcaraz or Smallbone can be the luxury more offensive CM. 

As fans, we expect to see a much higher work rate in the next few games, closing spaces and better positional awareness. Do the basics well, get a foothold in the game and then we can pass teams to death in the last 30 minutes with cutting edge from the strong bench option against a worn opposition. City did it several times at SMS when Saints were on a good run. I don’t want to keep sacking managers but Russell is learning the hard way with the dreadful goals conceded, and going dry for a few games would be a very good idea, a few clean sheets and build a platform to be more progressive from there. Leicester is huge game and a clean sheet would help ease any concerns the owners may have about poor organisation and training. 

Edited 3 September, 2023 by Gloucester Saint

[Barsiem]

16 minutes ago, The very right reverend said:

If you mean Bazunu he's not going anywhere. He's first choice whether we like it or not... and who are the other options

 

 

Swallow your pride, accept you're wrong and bring in Kasper Schmeichel for the interim.

Schmeichel apparently has developed a terrible attitude, so he wouldn't be the answer.  Think we're stuck with Baz until January at least. 

In fairness, he's had one bad game this season so far, a couple of ok ones, and one good one (QPR).  So definite signs of improvement - whether it's enough is another matter

[Holmes_and_Watson]

8 minutes ago, lambtiss said:

Its as if we've been told not to tackle

Having to tackle, would mean the player did not have the ball. To not have the ball is forbidden in MartinBall, so they don't practice such shameful things. 🙂

[Maggie May]

Yesterday was bad but the way this forum goes into meltdown mode after a defeat is embarrassing. We have 10 points on the board already without playing to our best. Our closest rivals also lost yesterday. This process is going to take time but you can’t write RM off just yet. 

[Saint Gifford]

5 hours ago, manji said:

Of course they do. One game far too early for wimps like you to come crawling out of the woodwork.

I think you have missed my point.
 

Perhaps me not communicating my understanding in the right way for you.

It’s our identity, DNA what ever you want to call it, that imo is missing. 
 

Nothing to do with yesterdays result.

We can carry on employing managers that have the latest blueprint of how to play the game, employ players, back room staff ect ect, spend loads and then let the next guy come in. 

Again forgive my tone but we will end up like countless professional clubs with a confused agenda. 

Yes I think Dragan has got an involvement now, and about time I might add.

I won’t go on about 4 managers and a relegation in the time SR has been in control.

I genuinely would like your comments on how going from Ralph to NJ, RS and now RM has any consistency in playing style, player recruitment approach to what we as a club should be trying to achieve.

Call me a Dinosaur, but I’m trying to make the point that we do not have the luxury of players and a pedigree that can allow a free thinking Pep or Klopp type managers to do what they want.

My opinion and happy to be shot down, but we have to have standards and a way that the club wants to play and any manager or player that walks through the door has to tow that line. 
 

I glad that it appears that the powers to be are trying. No it’s not one game I’ve followed the Saints long enough to feel the pain and joy. 
 

 

 

 

[Holmes_and_Watson]

16 minutes ago, Saint Gifford said:

I think you have missed my point.
 

Perhaps me not communicating my understanding in the right way for you.

It’s our identity, DNA what ever you want to call it, that imo is missing. 
 

Nothing to do with yesterdays result.

We can carry on employing managers that have the latest blueprint of how to play the game, employ players, back room staff ect ect, spend loads and then let the next guy come in. 

Again forgive my tone but we will end up like countless professional clubs with a confused agenda. 

Yes I think Dragan has got an involvement now, and about time I might add.

I won’t go on about 4 managers and a relegation in the time SR has been in control.

I genuinely would like your comments on how going from Ralph to NJ, RS and now RM has any consistency in playing style, player recruitment approach to what we as a club should be trying to achieve.

Call me a Dinosaur, but I’m trying to make the point that we do not have the luxury of players and a pedigree that can allow a free thinking Pep or Klopp type managers to do what they want.

My opinion and happy to be shot down, but we have to have standards and a way that the club wants to play and any manager or player that walks through the door has to tow that line. 
 

I glad that it appears that the powers to be are trying. No it’s not one game I’ve followed the Saints long enough to feel the pain and joy. 
 

 

 

 

Just some random thoughts..

SR love a project. 🙂

Having a football philosophy in the coaching, compliments their use of data to get the most out of small margins, and from players with slightly different skillsets.

A coaching philosophy, exhibited by a consistent approach across games, allows them to hone their recruitment/ support requirements accordingly. As we've seen they can make us brittle and take time to bed in.

Ideally, the idea would be to capture players on the cusp of breaking through, but a little delayed, because they're at a massive club. That's complimented by a mix of experience, but experience with sell on potential. Lowering the initial wage bill, to also provide more resources/profit, has been important to them too.

Because of using a philosophy/ playbook under Ralph, they can track development within roles, and it's a big help when bringing in players and staff. The creation of the style, and tweaks, may be free thinking, but they all have to be ruthlessly enforced to work. Pep, Klopp and a host of other managers are no different.

How we've employed an approach has shifted in focus from more high press, through keeping high pressure, but with deeper, direct delivery through posession and then counter and to possession and control. There's been transition, but some things have carried through. Underlying it all is how can we get an edge with less resources than bigger clubs? How can we control games? of our managers have had a focus on data analytics. How can we use that more?

It's not been a transition through choice. We'll never know if Ralph's team would have stayed up had he got attackers in to help. Nathan also didn't have the personnel he needed, with it being too late when some arrived. Selles was closer to Ralph's style, but we'd bought in a Nathan forward in Big Paul.

For every gain we made through Lavia and Tino, we were behind in getting the right players in at the right time, or the managers in at the right time to support them in the windows. Some of the players we've brought in had talent, but not the attitude to deal with where we were. All clubs also have their misses in the market. There's been enough of a gap between styles to leave us with Bree and Big Paul. But there's also been others who we've been looking to move on, including Che, McCarthy for the right price.

I think there's goals and principles in place. There is an identity, although it's taken a few forms in a too short space of time. I know I got mixed messages at the start of the season suggesting it could take a few years, when we had our best chance of going straight back up. But the goal is to go back up.

Another thing to look forward to, is that we are going to have terrible days. We did under Ralph. We're going to here. But when it works, it could be good, and if it works far more often than not, then we'll be more sustainable. Before SR, Poch was very clear that it would take months for everything to sink in. The trick is getting enough of it in quickly enough to keep us in contention. Which this early on, looking at the table, we are. There are risks in getting Martin, just as there was to Nathan and Ralph. Just as there are in a lot of projects, which is what  SR love.

[lambtiss]

7 hours ago, ant said:

Yes, yesterday was a shitshow. But reading the comments here it feels like many were primed to attack at the first possible opportunity.

Almost a perverse glee to it.

Personally, I believe we'll learn from this. And if we don't, those gunning for Martin will fairly swiftly get their wish.

I don't think people are "gunning" for Martin. I think he has had almost universal support. People are quite right to ask questions after an appalling display, a baffling lineup and a 3, 4 and a 5 conceded in 6 matches

[Orkney Saint]

7 hours ago, Holmes_and_Watson said:

Thanks for that. Interesting to see that together, and hopefully as the season goes on.

That late 5th of Sunderland's to be added, not that it impacts your point.

Thanks for pointing out the error 👍 I’ve now corrected the table…

 

Match No.	Possession %	Shots	Shots on Target	Corners	Goals For	Goals Against
1	80	23	7	6	2	1
2	70	31	11	12	4	4
3	61	19	9	10	2	1
4	74	7	3	4	2	1
5	68	13	2	8	0	5
Total	-	93	32	40	10	12
Average	70.6	18.6	6.4	8.0	2.0	2.4

[Holmes_and_Watson]

29 minutes ago, Orkney Saint said:

Thanks for pointing out the error 👍 I’ve now corrected the table…

 

Match No.	Possession %	Shots	Shots on Target	Corners	Goals For	Goals Against
1	80	23	7	6	2	1
2	70	31	11	12	4	4
3	61	19	9	10	2	1
4	74	7	3	4	2	1
5	68	13	2	8	0	5
Total	-	93	32	40	10	12
Average	70.6	18.6	6.4	8.0	2.0	2.4

"I humbly accept my pedant award on behalf of the many people I've pointed out minor details to over the years. It all began when a certain, now departed, poster joined SaintsWeb and I saw my future..." Continues for an hour with pauses to correct the grammar in the awards ceremony menu and the attire of the catering staff... 🙂

[tdmickey3]

Sort it out Mr Martin

[Dman]

19 hours ago, Maggie May said:

Yesterday was bad but the way this forum goes into meltdown mode after a defeat is embarrassing. We have 10 points on the board already without playing to our best. Our closest rivals also lost yesterday. This process is going to take time but you can’t write RM off just yet. 

I think that is the concern. We've been pretty lucky to win the games we have. 

Saturdays result has been coming, it could have been QPR if they had a bit more cutting edge. Out of possession we are dreadful, our pressing is ridiculously poor, we stupidly easy to play through and the full backs get too high up the pitch leaving CB's exposed. 

I really like Martin, I think he speaks well and is a great figure head for the club. However, I do think he's very limited as a manager though. 

I thought at the time of his appointment we wouldn't go up under him and 5 games in, I still think the same. 

It's probably for the best we don't to be completely honest. We'd see results like Saturday every single week in the PL playing in the way that we do. 

[Ex Lion Tamer]

I do think the centre back decision was a tough one for him:

Stephens - injured

Holgate - with us for a week

Bellis - with us for a day

Charles - not his natural position

In that situation, you probably go for the experienced player.

The Mara decision is harder to defend

[Dman]

2 minutes ago, Ex Lion Tamer said:

I do think the centre back decision was a tough one for him:

Stephens - injured

Holgate - with us for a week

Bellis - with us for a day

Charles - not his natural position

In that situation, you probably go for the experienced player.

The Mara decision is harder to defend

I can understand why he started, Che was likely expecting to not be here come Saturday and we've likely trained / prepped without him.

I've absolutely no idea why he played him RW with AA through the middle. That made no sense at all. Especially against Clarke who was their best player, he offered little to no protection to the full backs at all. 

Its actually painful that Martin isn't learning that AA cannot play through the middle alone. 

[saintant]

24 minutes ago, Dman said:

I can understand why he started, Che was likely expecting to not be here come Saturday and we've likely trained / prepped without him.

I've absolutely no idea why he played him RW with AA through the middle. That made no sense at all. Especially against Clarke who was their best player, he offered little to no protection to the full backs at all. 

Its actually painful that Martin isn't learning that AA cannot play through the middle alone. 

Amen to that. When is the penny going to drop?

[stevy777_x]

38 minutes ago, saintant said:

Amen to that. When is the penny going to drop?

Once he stops praising him left right and center

[Polegategavin243]

18 hours ago, Orkney Saint said:

Thanks for pointing out the error 👍 I’ve now corrected the table…

 

Match No.	Possession %	Shots	Shots on Target	Corners	Goals For	Goals Against
1	80	23	7	6	2	1
2	70	31	11	12	4	4
3	61	19	9	10	2	1
4	74	7	3	4	2	1
5	68	13	2	8	0	5
Total	-	93	32	40	10	12
Average	70.6	18.6	6.4	8.0	2.0	2.4

It would be useful to see how many shots against and the passes in final third for better context

[Dark Munster]

3 hours ago, Dman said:

Its actually painful that Martin isn't learning that AA cannot play through the middle alone. 

Agreed, it’s infuriating. And that’s not the only bleeding obvious things he’s getting wrong. And some are hoping he will address our crap defending. But his record on that goes back to his time at Swansea. 

It seems to me that he is a nice but thick bloke. What did Wilcox see in him? I’m hoping he was a Rasmus W. Ankersen choice with Wilcox rubber stamping, because if Wilcox was really the driving force for appointing him then that is very worrying about any future manager hires. Wilcox is supposedly the “expert” that saves us from the profound SR footballing incompetence. 

[Convict Colony]

4 hours ago, Dark Munster said:

Agreed, it’s infuriating. And that’s not the only bleeding obvious things he’s getting wrong. And some are hoping he will address our crap defending. But his record on that goes back to his time at Swansea. 

It seems to me that he is a nice but thick bloke. What did Wilcox see in him? I’m hoping he was a Rasmus W. Ankersen choice with Wilcox rubber stamping, because if Wilcox was really the driving force for appointing him then that is very worrying about any future manager hires. Wilcox is supposedly the “expert” that saves us from the profound SR footballing incompetence. 

10pts from 5 games is automatic promotion form with a team that's lost and changed lots of players and are playing a new system in a new league.

Jason Wilcox, premier league winner, Man City academy director for 10yrs who they didn't want to lose is "supposedly" the expert 🤣

 

 

[SambaMaverick]

6 minutes ago, Convict Colony said:

10pts from 5 games is automatic promotion form with a team that's lost and changed lots of players and are playing a new system in a new league.

Jason Wilcox, premier league winner, Man City academy director for 10yrs who they didn't want to lose is "supposedly" the expert 🤣

 

 

What does "Premier League winner" have to do with the price of fish exactly? Thierry Henry, best forward the PL has seen, couldn't manage his way out of a paper bag - among others.

[AlexLaw76]

11 minutes ago, SambaMaverick said:

What does "Premier League winner" have to do with the price of fish exactly? Thierry Henry, best forward the PL has seen, couldn't manage his way out of a paper bag - among others.

Djimi Traore won the Champions League. The streets dont forget these players

[Dark Munster]

1 hour ago, Convict Colony said:

10pts from 5 games is automatic promotion form with a team that's lost and changed lots of players and are playing a new system in a new league.

Jason Wilcox, premier league winner, Man City academy director for 10yrs who they didn't want to lose is "supposedly" the expert 🤣

 

 

Pep and Saudi billions are PL winners.

And being an academy director (at a filthy rich club to boot) doesn't guarantee success at being director of football with us.

[CB Fry]

20 minutes ago, Dark Munster said:

Pep and Saudi billions are PL winners.

And being an academy director (at a filthy rich club to boot) doesn't guarantee success at being director of football with us.

No, but nothing does. You'd say a variation on that kind of dismissiveness if he'd been director of football at Peterborough or Celtic or Everton or Notts County or Cleckhampton Ladies.

Nothing guarantees anyone will be a success at anything so maybe just pick our next director of football from the queue for the next bus to Sholing.

 

Personally it felt like (and still feels like) an excellent appointment to get Wilcox in from City. Of all the things to whinge about I can't see how that is one.

Edited 4 September, 2023 by CB Fry

[Dark Munster]

1 hour ago, CB Fry said:

No, but nothing does. You'd say a variation on that kind of dismissiveness if he'd been director of football at Peterborough or Celtic or Everton or Notts County or Cleckhampton Ladies.

Nothing guarantees anyone will be a success at anything so maybe just pick our next director of football from the queue for the next bus to Sholing.

 

Personally it felt like (and still feels like) an excellent appointment to get Wilcox in from City. Of all the things to whinge about I can't see how that is one.

I'm not whinging about his appointment, nor dismissing him. See the quote I was replying to. 

Some people think he is a great appointment. And indeed he may well turn out to be, let's hope so. But the jury's still out for me, he has brought in some good players and got a good price on Lavia, but there are worrying signs: no decent GK appointment ("a strong stable of goalkeepers here" lol!), Holgate, and choosing* RM despite his mediocre track record and well-known inability to get teams to defend well.

* If indeed he did, as the club have been implying. Possibly that's plausible deniability on Rasmus W. Ankersen's part after his Jones disaster.

[Long Shot]

Martin might communicate well and be likeable, plausible and fan savvy but there is nothing on his cv that suggests he can actually manage. Saturday was a massive crash to earth moment. That defeat was worse than anything under Jones according to Jo Tessem. Was it a one off? We shall see but I’m not over hopeful that SR haven’t made another clanger. 

[Wade Garrett]

I think he has to find a system that suits his best players rather than tie himself to a system regardless.

Adams, Fraser, Charles and Bellis have to start.  As do Flynn, KWP and A Armstrong (not in the 9 though).

 

[Miltonaggro]

Keeper aside (Larry, Curly and Mo) after the recent window we have a good deal of strength in depth across the squad for this league. No excuses, Martin should be able to get a tune out of this group in terms of dominating games and keeping clean sheets. I’ll take the points tally and current position but we should expect to see a clear incremental improvement from here as well as a reaction to the Sunderland debacle. 

[Lord Duckhunter]

I’m pleasantly surprised how many points we’ve got so far, and on paper the transfer window looked ok (although I’d have liked a couple of pirates in).  However, there are worrying things about the first month. Firstly he seems wedded to Baz in nets, & secondly he doesn’t seem to be able to organise us defensively, it’s also slightly worrying that the most coherent & effective we’ve looked was in the first half of the first game. I guess it’s the uncertainty since that’s had an effect and we can now move forward. I imagine he knows it’s shit or bust so maybe that might encourage him to be a bit more pragmatic.
 

Promotion is the be all and end all, I couldn’t really care less how it’s achieved, but I wish we’d get it in the mixer a bit more. 
 

 

Edited 5 September, 2023 by Lord Duckhunter

[Kermitzasaint]

On 03/09/2023 at 20:27, Gloucester Saint said:

In the next three games, the overriding priority has to be a clean sheet. Track the runners properly, reduce the crosses coming in and become much harder to beat. If we nick a goal somewhere for a 1-0 win, even better but the priority is to play dry. If the club needs to get a Winterburn or Dixon figure in short-term to get the back 4/5 tightly and systematically organised for the rest of the season then do it, worth every penny. At the moment, the level of disorganisation and chaos is moronic to not learn from and fix. Basics like closing down for the second goal yesterday, last week QPR and Colbeck, Sara v Norwich. Close the space down quicker. It’s just laziness early on in the game when everyone should fresh. Bazanu was guilty of it on the first goal yesterday too, that’s his ball, get to it first and if their striker is off on a stretcher because you clean him out, that’s how it is. As long you clearly get the ball first, it ain’t a foul. 

The number of crosses just allowed in with no effort whatsoever to close down (Sheffield Weds it was an issue second half, Norwich’s opener, Plymouth and yesterday x2) has been going on since Ralph lost the plot. Pochettino double sessions and pure drilling/practice will instil the right habits.

The possession football is fine but always has to be built upon two basics - win the midfield in the first 30 minutes and ensuring the defence is screened. The nice stuff can come only after that. Pep expects Rodri to dominate his battles and at present, Wilcox has to put his foot down about Downes and Charles, when fit, are automatic XI selections. Alcaraz or Smallbone can be the luxury more offensive CM. 

As fans, we expect to see a much higher work rate in the next few games, closing spaces and better positional awareness. Do the basics well, get a foothold in the game and then we can pass teams to death in the last 30 minutes with cutting edge from the strong bench option against a worn opposition. City did it several times at SMS when Saints were on a good run. I don’t want to keep sacking managers but Russell is learning the hard way with the dreadful goals conceded, and going dry for a few games would be a very good idea, a few clean sheets and build a platform to be more progressive from there. Leicester is huge game and a clean sheet would help ease any concerns the owners may have about poor organisation and training. 

I agree with what you're saying but Russell Martin doesn't do defensive tactics. He never has done as said by supporters of his previous clubs. This is why he is described as infuriating. He doesn't care about the defence.

[Whitey Grandad]

40 minutes ago, Kermitzasaint said:

I agree with what you're saying but Russell Martin doesn't do defensive tactics. He never has done as said by supporters of his previous clubs. This is why he is described as infuriating. He doesn't care about the defence.

That is a concern. If all he cares about is making pretty patterns then we are not going to get very far.

[Convict Colony]

Removed it cos disconnect pointed out that the stat was worded incorrectly.

 

 

Edited 5 September, 2023 by Convict Colony
English is my 15th language

[VectisSaint]

On 03/09/2023 at 13:27, Gloucester Saint said:

In the next three games, the overriding priority has to be a clean sheet. Track the runners properly, reduce the crosses coming in and become much harder to beat. If we nick a goal somewhere for a 1-0 win, even better but the priority is to play dry. If the club needs to get a Winterburn or Dixon figure in short-term to get the back 4/5 tightly and systematically organised for the rest of the season then do it, worth every penny. At the moment, the level of disorganisation and chaos is moronic to not learn from and fix. Basics like closing down for the second goal yesterday, last week QPR and Colbeck, Sara v Norwich. Close the space down quicker. It’s just laziness early on in the game when everyone should fresh. Bazanu was guilty of it

The possession football is fine but always has to be built upon two basics - win the midfield in the first 30 minutes and ensuring the defence is screened.

Agreed but you missed the 1st basic, that is keep possession. Saturday there were far too many sloppy passes, especially in our own half. Holgate was probably the worst culprit, but Armstrong (S), KWP, Manning, Alcatraz, Smallbone all guilty, Bazunu contributed as well. Far too often players tried a risky pass when it wasn't necessary. Risky passes are OK further up, indeed they are critical to breaking through. It might seem ponderous and boring to us, but for the system to work it is an unforgivable sin to give the ball away unnecessarily and under no pressure. Commentators on Saturday praised Sunderland for winning the ball but in most cases they did not win it, we gifted it to them. Part of this is also stopping our CBs marauding up the pitch, it may look good but usually ends in tears, and then we are too ponderous to get back.

Probably find the stats will show very high percent of successful passes, but it only takes one misplaced pass in a dangerous area to give the opposition a chance.

Would also like to see Manning taken off corner duty, LB taking right side corners is a recipe for disaster as we know from the days of Bertrand, great corners but trouble if they break down.

[Dig Dig]

1 hour ago, Kermitzasaint said:

I agree with what you're saying but Russell Martin doesn't do defensive tactics. He never has done as said by supporters of his previous clubs. This is why he is described as infuriating. He doesn't care about the defence.

I'm sure Swansea (winless) and MK Dons (relegated) fans are really happy he left. 

[Saint Fan CaM]

2 hours ago, Kermitzasaint said:

I agree with what you're saying but Russell Martin doesn't do defensive tactics. He never has done as said by supporters of his previous clubs. This is why he is described as infuriating. He doesn't care about the defence.

Not sure he’s too bothered about attack either…it’s all about possession - if we’ve got the ball they can’t score and we may get lucky and find a way past 11 players. Trouble is our team is so fragile that unless the opposition are really poor, they allow 30% possession to convert into more goals than we can score and we end up with a disaster or an uphill battle at best.

[disconnect]

1 hour ago, Convict Colony said:

Pretty damning our right back makes this list let alone edozie.

 

This should read the number of players these named players have dribbled past, not that people are running rings around Jack Clarke and KWP. It basically tells us what we know, KWP is a great attacking full back, and Edozie is a great dribbler. 

[No Saint David]

On 03/09/2023 at 16:12, Maggie May said:

Yesterday was bad but the way this forum goes into meltdown mode after a defeat is embarrassing. We have 10 points on the board already without playing to our best. Our closest rivals also lost yesterday. This process is going to take time but you can’t write RM off just yet. 

A view from Wales, we gave Martin 2 years and apart from the last 9 games it was the slowest, most boring football many had endured. Martin is a very stubborn man. He allegedly said he'd rather lose playing his way than win playing a different way. To play his way you need the top players.  Have you seen a lot of passing in your own box that causes problems, have you seen too much passing backwards from beyond the halfway line, have you seen slow, predictable football?  That is what we got at Swansea for 2 years and many of us were glad you came in for him.

This is not a wind up BTW, I am deadly serious. Many of us wanted him gone, I you can be bothered have a good look at our forum, it's all there though you'll need to dig a bit now.

Good luck.

[Miltonaggro]

4 minutes ago, No Saint David said:

A view from Wales, we gave Martin 2 years and apart from the last 9 games it was the slowest, most boring football many had endured. Martin is a very stubborn man. He allegedly said he'd rather lose playing his way than win playing a different way. To play his way you need the top players.  Have you seen a lot of passing in your own box that causes problems, have you seen too much passing backwards from beyond the halfway line, have you seen slow, predictable football?  That is what we got at Swansea for 2 years and many of us were glad you came in for him.

This is not a wind up BTW, I am deadly serious. Many of us wanted him gone, I you can be bothered have a good look at our forum, it's all there though you'll need to dig a bit now.

Good luck.

Makes you wonder if the upturn iin form coincided with a covert initial approach from Saints - pressure off and the doctrine eased off somewhat. 

[The Kraken]

17 minutes ago, No Saint David said:

A view from Wales, we gave Martin 2 years and apart from the last 9 games it was the slowest, most boring football many had endured. Martin is a very stubborn man. He allegedly said he'd rather lose playing his way than win playing a different way. To play his way you need the top players.  Have you seen a lot of passing in your own box that causes problems, have you seen too much passing backwards from beyond the halfway line, have you seen slow, predictable football?  That is what we got at Swansea for 2 years and many of us were glad you came in for him.

This is not a wind up BTW, I am deadly serious. Many of us wanted him gone, I you can be bothered have a good look at our forum, it's all there though you'll need to dig a bit now.

Good luck.

Yeah I don’t think you’re telling us much more that we’ve already heard before and already seen this season with our own eyes! 😆

There’s been a few times when I’ve watched Martinball this season and been genuinely impressed, it’s at times been really nice on the eye. On to many occasions it’s looked very weak though, as epitomised against Sunderland when we were second best all over the park and our tactics just allowed them to play right through us.

It’s interesting you say ‘to play his way you need the top players’. I still think we’ve got a really good squad for this level, and against some of the lower sides I reckon we’ll look great, Sheff We’d away for instance showed a bit of a gulf in class of players. That said, I’ve rarely seen a Saints side so susceptible to the counter attack and when out of possession, and I don’t really see that changing all that much given Martin’s history.

Meh. I’d had enough of the Premier League for a bit, and I never expected Saints to run away with anything this season. I’d definitely like to see us tighten up much more, who knows, maybe RM has learnt from past mistakes and will put them right (hopeful thinking but it’s very early days). Sunderland aside I’ve found the games quite refreshing to watch although the possession -based domination certainly does irk some who want a bit more of a balanced approach that can go direct when required. We’ll see!

 

[Maggie May]

40 minutes ago, No Saint David said:

A view from Wales, we gave Martin 2 years and apart from the last 9 games it was the slowest, most boring football many had endured. Martin is a very stubborn man. He allegedly said he'd rather lose playing his way than win playing a different way. To play his way you need the top players.  Have you seen a lot of passing in your own box that causes problems, have you seen too much passing backwards from beyond the halfway line, have you seen slow, predictable football?  That is what we got at Swansea for 2 years and many of us were glad you came in for him.

This is not a wind up BTW, I am deadly serious. Many of us wanted him gone, I you can be bothered have a good look at our forum, it's all there though you'll need to dig a bit now.

Good luck.

Bet they’re begging for him back now, though. Seven wins in the last nine at the end of the season to a winless start under Duff.

[Convict Colony]

1 hour ago, disconnect said:

This should read the number of players these named players have dribbled past, not that people are running rings around Jack Clarke and KWP. It basically tells us what we know, KWP is a great attacking full back, and Edozie is a great dribbler. 

Ah got you thought it was a bit weird for our fullback as he's not that bad to look at from what i've seen, not good at tracking back quickly but not so much of a easy dribble against.