Russell Martin

[Turkish]

1 minute ago, Saint_clark said:

I too was very sceptical, not so much for who he was but how it came about. It was all a bit of a farce. 

If the performance last night is anything to go by and he is properly backed with transfers, I could see him being a good Prem manager as well. 

He wouldn’t have been anyone’s choice and what I like about him is he seems to be aware of that and even said himself he didn’t get the job because he finished 10th with Swansea. Compare that to Jones and his statistically one of the best managers in Europe bullshit 🤣🤣

definitely so far making a good impression, early days but done everything right so far 

[egg]

5 minutes ago, Soton7 said:

Still makes me angry how we ended up with Nathan fkn Jones. The type of fella to wear an Apple Watch with a 3 piece suit and order a pint of Carling when out with the directors. You know big Russ will order the finest whiskey on the rocks and will be supporting a Rolex Daytona. 

You're not wrong, although I think Russell has more class than to sport a Daytona. Strikes me as an IWC Portugieser kind of guy, with aspirations for a Patek Philipe Nautilus as a reward to himself after promotion. 

[hypochondriac]

13 minutes ago, Turkish said:

He wouldn’t have been anyone’s choice and what I like about him is he seems to be aware of that and even said himself he didn’t get the job because he finished 10th with Swansea. Compare that to Jones and his statistically one of the best managers in Europe bullshit 🤣🤣

definitely so far making a good impression, early days but done everything right so far 

Regardless of what Martin does, I actually like the bloke whereas with Jones I disliked him so intensely that I was very close to actively wanting us to lose so he could leave quicker. It makes a huge difference to the fanbase to have a manager like Adkins and Martin who everyone seems to like and makes supporting the team a hell of a lot easier. Supporting saints has been really hard for the last few years, it feels like they can give us something to be proud of again. 

[egg]

8 minutes ago, hypochondriac said:

Regardless of what Martin does, I actually like the bloke whereas with Jones I disliked him so intensely that I was very close to actively wanting us to lose so he could leave quicker. It makes a huge difference to the fanbase to have a manager like Adkins and Martin who everyone seems to like and makes supporting the team a hell of a lot easier. Supporting saints has been really hard for the last few years, it feels like they can give us something to be proud of again. 

Spot on mate 👍👏

[Turkish]

https://www.thesun.co.uk/sport/23293878/southampton-relegated-premier-league-championship-russell-martin-norwich-swansea/?utm_medium=Social&utm_campaign=sunfootballfacebook020823&utm_source=Facebook&fbclid=IwAR06cktbAprXF90s79IprAFzr7KL-4VYyQH0wFOxLGrdhly7Bnmz8JU90YE_aem_AdL5iglBACV5GQMHr5BfdktAwRwWD5MTC24QReVS9OF5afHscfFy8tJlnZR_OJ7482I#Echobox=1690926479

I really like this guy 

[Dark Munster]

11 hours ago, Soton7 said:

I really like this guy and the type of manager we needed for our club. If only we got the right appointment after Ralph. 

He’s charismatic, speaks well, nice accent, got a good presence about him, dresses well, has a good set of hair, skin, and when he speaks you listen. I loved the tongue in cheek at the end when he went over to our supporters and gave it the fist pump. Hopefully he settles here and will be part of a longer term journey. Yes it’s only been 1 game but  hopefully there’s some exciting times ahead. Up the Saints!

 

As good as Selles?

Talking about Selles, I remember the gushing praise after his first match as full time manager. We all know where it went after that.

I reserve judgement for a while, but I'm sure RM will be much better, especially, unlike the clueless Selles, he actually has prior experience as a manager, not to mention the Championship being a big step down from the PL. 

[Crab Lungs]

9 hours ago, Dark Munster said:

As good as Selles?

Talking about Selles, I remember the gushing praise after his first match as full time manager. We all know where it went after that.

I reserve judgement for a while, but I'm sure RM will be much better, especially, unlike the clueless Selles, he actually has prior experience as a manager, not to mention the Championship being a big step down from the PL. 

I watched some of the Reading match yesterday. It was awful. 😂

[Wade Garrett]

22 minutes ago, Crab Lungs said:

I watched some of the Reading match yesterday. It was awful. 😂

He is a total fraud.  They’ll continue to be shit until he gets the bullet.

[beatlesaint]

46 minutes ago, Wade Garrett said:

He is a total fraud.  They’ll continue to be shit until he gets the bullet.

Made me laugh when the reporter said the second half changes Selles made had stopped the momentum they were starting to build up. Yeah, that’s about right.

[Miltonaggro]

17 hours ago, Turkish said:

https://www.thesun.co.uk/sport/23293878/southampton-relegated-premier-league-championship-russell-martin-norwich-swansea/?utm_medium=Social&utm_campaign=sunfootballfacebook020823&utm_source=Facebook&fbclid=IwAR06cktbAprXF90s79IprAFzr7KL-4VYyQH0wFOxLGrdhly7Bnmz8JU90YE_aem_AdL5iglBACV5GQMHr5BfdktAwRwWD5MTC24QReVS9OF5afHscfFy8tJlnZR_OJ7482I#Echobox=1690926479

I really like this guy 

Good piece, and interesting about the basis of his foundation, grounded and pragmatic.  The old interview adage of 'would you enjoy having a beer outside of a work with this person?' is a good measure of the man here.  Easy with Martin, and could likely stretch to a curry.  With Nathan Jones the prospect of eight pints of Stella, Dixie Chicken and a punch up in the taxi rank not quite as appealing. 

[Convict Colony]

Just for information this is how city try and get around the low block.

Of course caveats regarding player quality etc etc

 

[Saint_clark]

1 hour ago, Convict Colony said:

Just for information this is how city try and get around the low block.

Of course caveats regarding player quality etc etc

 

Oversimplified really, you're telling me City will try that little manoeuvre over and over again? Or will they be trying all sorts? 

[Convict Colony]

8 minutes ago, Saint_clark said:

Oversimplified really, you're telling me City will try that little manoeuvre over and over again? Or will they be trying all sorts? 

Bro I dont write the blog I just share the info people might find interesting but yes your correct, if you can post all the other approaches as well that would be interesting as genuinely is there a tactic to defeat the low block ? When i think low block i think chelsea v barca away after having a man sent off, what defeats a low block ?

[Patches O Houlihan]

1 hour ago, Convict Colony said:

Bro I dont write the blog I just share the info people might find interesting but yes your correct, if you can post all the other approaches as well that would be interesting as genuinely is there a tactic to defeat the low block ? When i think low block i think chelsea v barca away after having a man sent off, what defeats a low block ?

Edozie/Sulemana getting fouled on the edge of the area and a JWP special!

[Miltonaggro]

38 minutes ago, Patches O Houlihan said:

Edozie/Sulemana getting fouled on the edge of the area and a JWP special!

This is actually key in this system, get them to change their shape to adapt to your attack, don’t change yours. All about patience and having the right players. We will need two for each position over the season. Also, before Sheff weds I was fairly ambivalent about JWP leaving, now, I can see that he could be the metronome and executioner in this side. Dream is Tella, Sule, Acaraz and Armstrong picking locks and JWP and a new centre forward clinical from free kicks and the middle. 

[Charlie Wayman]

22 hours ago, Turkish said:

https://www.thesun.co.uk/sport/23293878/southampton-relegated-premier-league-championship-russell-martin-norwich-swansea/?utm_medium=Social&utm_campaign=sunfootballfacebook020823&utm_source=Facebook&fbclid=IwAR06cktbAprXF90s79IprAFzr7KL-4VYyQH0wFOxLGrdhly7Bnmz8JU90YE_aem_AdL5iglBACV5GQMHr5BfdktAwRwWD5MTC24QReVS9OF5afHscfFy8tJlnZR_OJ7482I#Echobox=1690926479

I really like this guy 

More so with short hair and no facial hair. Always a bit suspicious of blokes who hide behind beards.

[Le Timmier]

2 minutes ago, Charlie Wayman said:

More so with short hair and no facial hair. Always a bit suspicious of blokes who hide behind beards.

A painful experience down by the docks? 

[Miltonaggro]

1 hour ago, Le Timmier said:

A painful experience down by the docks? 

Every Tuesday and Thursday 😂 ⛴️ 

[SotonianWill]

On 05/08/2023 at 20:43, Turkish said:

https://www.thesun.co.uk/sport/23293878/southampton-relegated-premier-league-championship-russell-martin-norwich-swansea/?utm_medium=Social&utm_campaign=sunfootballfacebook020823&utm_source=Facebook&fbclid=IwAR06cktbAprXF90s79IprAFzr7KL-4VYyQH0wFOxLGrdhly7Bnmz8JU90YE_aem_AdL5iglBACV5GQMHr5BfdktAwRwWD5MTC24QReVS9OF5afHscfFy8tJlnZR_OJ7482I#Echobox=1690926479

I really like this guy 

How’s he going to swing this one if we get promoted and a championship team come in for one of our players. “yeah, always said the prem was more enjoyable” 

[Fabrice29]

10 hours ago, SotonianWill said:

How’s he going to swing this one if we get promoted and a championship team come in for one of our players. “yeah, always said the prem was more enjoyable” 

Well if you read the quote he’s talking about his own experience of struggling and trying to survive in the PL. I think he and Wilcox have both talked about wanting to be top 10 and therefore that would be more enjoyable.

[Convict Colony]

From the analyst website - lots of interesting stuff on there https://theanalyst.com/eu/2023/08/championship-stats-2023-24-opta/

On the control one Red is where the opposition has had over 55% of the touches in that area.

 

Edited 7 August, 2023 by Convict Colony

[goodymatt]

1 hour ago, Convict Colony said:

From the analyst website - lots of interesting stuff on there https://theanalyst.com/eu/2023/08/championship-stats-2023-24-opta/

On the control one Red is where the opposition has had over 55% of the touches in that area.

 

Someone have a word with Nathan Tella, he didn’t complete the set.

[CSA96]

2 hours ago, Convict Colony said:

From the analyst website - lots of interesting stuff on there https://theanalyst.com/eu/2023/08/championship-stats-2023-24-opta/

On the control one Red is where the opposition has had over 55% of the touches in that area.

 

QPR doing well, then...

[Miltonaggro]

55 minutes ago, CSA96 said:

QPR doing well, then...

They need to focus on catching Rotherham.

[Miltonaggro]

In Martin’s early interviews he stated that it would take time for the squad to adapt to his tactics and that we’d likely lose key players right up until the close of the window, that there would be blips. Early mitigation of course but right to say it.  Last night was an early blip but perhaps a blessing in that it came in a cup competition when we put out a side of mainly ‘premier league’ players against a division four side. Whatever you think of that line up it should have been able to achieve a result. Instead, for those of us who have been watching these players much longer than Martin they reverted to type, given a chance they blew it. With the summer window open for a long time yet you would hope that our revolving door would be increasing its rpm after that shitshow. The main positives for me, are getting this out of the way, and the individual chancers into the light now, along with Martin’s post match interview. In the interview he was honest in a way we haven’t seen since Koeman, genuinely angry and calling out the sub-standard players. Dismayed at the performance but frank and now aware that the fringe personnel aren’t up to the job.  Wait and see the subs bench against Norwich. 

[LegalEagle]

He’s doing alright don’t we think after the mayhem of the past 12 months? He’s not a bullshitter which I like.

[Turkish]

He’s doing a great job. Feels like a great fit for us. I, like many, was skeptical about him but he’s a good guy, talks honestly and openly, made his mark on the team and strategy. He feels right for us something Nathan Jones never did. I am a big supporter of RM. He gets the Turkish stamp of approval 

[SotonianWill]

 

[goodymatt]

2 hours ago, SotonianWill said:

 

Celebration needs work. What a hit though!

[Crab Lungs]

18 hours ago, Turkish said:

He’s doing a great job. Feels like a great fit for us. I, like many, was skeptical about him but he’s a good guy, talks honestly and openly, made his mark on the team and strategy. He feels right for us something Nathan Jones never did. I am a big supporter of RM. He gets the Turkish stamp of approval 

That’s a proper accolade. 👍🏼

[Harry_SFC]

46 minutes ago, goodymatt said:

Celebration needs work. What a hit though!

Maybe the goal music this season was Martin's idea...

Edited 28 August, 2023 by Harry_SFC

[Convict Colony]

On 07/08/2023 at 09:37, Convict Colony said:

From the analyst website - lots of interesting stuff on there https://theanalyst.com/eu/2023/08/championship-stats-2023-24-opta/

On the control one Red is where the opposition has had over 55% of the touches in that area.

 

 

 

Update on the teams view

Edited 28 August, 2023 by Convict Colony

[Patches O Houlihan]

RM's teams historically seem to have a habit of letting in a shit tonne of goals, and watching our first six games its not hard to see why:

• 2 inverted full backs both playing almost in the no 8 position
• Lively wingers that cut the ball back to the penalty spot but passes always cut off by the defence and no attacking players in the right spot. Hence we loose the ball with only a couple of players available to defend
• Generally pretty weak in the midfield
• Midfielders who do not run back hard to defend when we loose the ball
• and when the midfielders do get goal side of an attacker seem to be too far back to do anything but create a ricochet that wrong foots the goalie. Surely they need to be pressing much tighter not waiting to be passed through.

We have appointed a set piece coach to improve that side of our game. RM came with a coaching team, but that group has consistently coached teams which cough up goals.

Is there an argument for bringing in an additional coach specifically to improve the defensive tactics & skills? Or do we end up with a Hasenhuttl/Selles 5 at the back shit fight like we did in pre-season last year? 

I really like the guy, and really want him to succeed, but we are playing playground football right now

Edited 2 September, 2023 by Patches O Houlihan
clarification

[Smirking_Saint]

15 hours ago, Patches O Houlihan said:

RM's teams historically seem to have a habit of letting in a shit tonne of goals, and watching our first six games its not hard to see why:

• 2 inverted full backs both playing almost in the no 8 position
• Lively wingers that cut the ball back to the penalty spot but passes always cut off by the defence and no attacking players in the right spot. Hence we loose the ball with only a couple of players available to defend
• Generally pretty weak in the midfield
• Midfielders who do not run back hard to defend when we loose the ball
• and when the midfielders do get goal side of an attacker seem to be too far back to do anything but create a ricochet that wrong foots the goalie. Surely they need to be pressing much tighter not waiting to be passed through.

We have appointed a set piece coach to improve that side of our game. RM came with a coaching team, but that group has consistently coached teams which cough up goals.

Is there an argument for bringing in an additional coach specifically to improve the defensive tactics & skills? Or do we end up with a Hasenhuttl/Selles 5 at the back shit fight like we did in pre-season last year? 

I really like the guy, and really want him to succeed, but we are playing playground football right now

Pretty much… I was going to sit and do a bit of an analysis of our conceded goals today for my own sanity, really cause I’m sad enough to like the tactical side of things. But to be honest after today, I just absolutely cannot be bothered.

I think my main takeaway from today, and I’d actually noticed in previous matches, but we got away with it, is that we play far too fluidly with the ball. Now that means from attacking point of view, and also a possession based point of view, that we have plenty of options all over the pitch. Unfortunately, though is that does mean that there is just absolutely no structure when we get turned over and we do get turned over too much.
 

For instance, if Flynn was supposed to be our effective number six today, then far too often I see him popping up on the right wing or left wing and he just wasn’t in a position to stifle any transitions when it did break, now I’m not sure if that is a tactical thing or just the way he likes to play, but I didn’t see it so much from Charles in previous weeks.

I think if we can get better from a structural point of view and slightly less fluid in our possession based play, then okay, we may see a little less of the ball, but ultimately we should be in a better position if and inevitably, when the opposition turns us over.

To put it frankly, I really like Russell Martin, but unless he gets the team in a better defensive structure and more importantly, the players need to be aware of the defensive positions, we won’t be getting promoted

Edited 3 September, 2023 by Smirking_Saint
Did original using voice notes and it was a bag of wank

[saintant]

RM lost a lot of street cred today presiding over that embarrassment.  Those nagging little doubts just got a whole lot bigger. The guy is very likeable so I hope this is a blip and we'll come back stronger but it was one hell of a wake-up call.

[James]

Like Martin and want him to do well but that hiding was coming after a few poor performances where we got away with it. On the plus side, Martin himself is at least acknowledging we have not played well in games we've won but he seems tactically naive and reluctant to change it. Not sure he's going to last the season to be honest, we are so open.

[saintant]

5 minutes ago, James said:

Like Martin and want him to do well but that hiding was coming after a few poor performances where we got away with it. On the plus side, Martin himself is at least acknowledging we have not played well in games we've won but he seems tactically naive and reluctant to change it. Not sure he's going to last the season to be honest, we are so open.

I wonder if he'd be better off introducing his passing obsession gradually. Mix things up a bit whist always developing the passing mantra. Maybe it's too much too soon. Certainly looked that way today.

[SaintJackoInHurworth]

I'm just back from the match as I live near Darlington. I was tempted to create a new thread entitled "Who did worst today: Holgate, Downes or Russell Martin?"!

I think the answer to this question is actually Holgate... but only just!! Russell Martin had an absolute mare today with his team selection and subs. There are too many things on which to comment, but let me start with the following table that compares players' normal position to where they were playing at the end of today's game:

Player        Normal Pos    Final Pos today

Bazunu      GK                   GK
Charles      CDM               RB
KWP           RB                   LB
Bednarek   RCB                RCB
Manning     LB                   LCB
Downes     CM                  CDM
Alcaraz      AM                   CM
Arma          CF                    AM
Fraser        RW                   LW
Aribo          AM                   RW
Adams        CF                   CF
 

Now, I am not arguing that we can't ever rotate players from their usual positions (eg KWP is great at left back) but to end the match with 8 players not playing in their natural position has got to suggest there is something very wrong!!

It was pretty obvious early in the first half that Holgate was struggling. Yet Flynn Downes did not have the ability to help him because he is not a CDM like Oriol Romeu, but rather a box-to-box CM like JWP.

That forced Stu Armstrong to drop back from AM to help out, thus depriving us of an outlet. Then when he went off, Downes (who also had a dreadful game) was left stranded once again.

Which brings me to another issue...

Substitutions

* Why did it take so long to sub Holgate off?

* How did the woeful and ineffective Downes get to stay on? At the very least he should have been moved into the box-to-box position in place of Smallbone by bringing on Harwood-Bellis as centre back and moving Charles into his natural CDM position.

* Edozie was our most effective winger but was taken off. Why? His replacement, Fraser, was practically invisible! I didn't even realise he was playing until second half injury time!!! 😲

Summary

Holgate was awful today and takes a lot of the blame for the scoreline, but Martin has also got to take some blame. He has got to get to grips with the squad and work out how best to combine them. He needs to stop relying on his favourites and needs to play less players out of their normal positions... unless they are better in the alternative position and are better than another player in that position (e.g. Arma may be better as an AM though I would argue that Alcaraz is the best player in that position)

Edited 2 September, 2023 by SaintJackoInHurworth
Corrections to spellings and clarification of comments

[Dark Munster]

So our last three managers:

Jones: Unlikeable and incompetent.

Selles: Likeable and incompetent.

Martin: Jury still out. But is he another Selles? The fact that defensively he was very poor at Swansea indicates this is a fundamental flaw, not a blip

[HKsaint]

Sack him before too late

[Miltonaggro]

10 minutes ago, Dark Munster said:

So our last three managers:

Jones: Unlikeable and incompetent.

Selles: Likeable and incompetent.

Martin: Jury still out. But is he another Selles? The fact that defensively he was very poor at Swansea indicates this is a fundamental flaw, not a blip

I think to play the way he wants to play you have to have the most able ball players in your respective league, high fitness and commitment. You can’t get away with weak links and have to weed out any quick smart. If Martin blows it it will be because he lacks a ruthless streak or can’t identify the clear weaknesses. 

[spyinthesky]

Russell Martin comes across as a likeable bloke who wants to play a decent brand of 'keep ball' and so far this season this has largely worked.

However many of us fans have seen potential issues  eg
1. Height and physicality of the team.
2. Susceptibility to crosses.
3. Potential to be hit on the break (even Reading a team of triallists we totally outplayed pre season, scored two and nearly had three goals from breakaways)
4.  Goal keeping errors (btw I dont necessarily blame Baz as I think he will develop into a decent GK and the set up in front of him hasn't helped)
5. Over elaboration in the final third of the pitch.

We have now got the worst defensive record in the Championship, conceded three against a 4th tier team and the team didn't cover themselves in glory pre season.

Russell Martin and his coaching staff have got a couple of weeks to try and sort something out before difficult games against Leicester & Ipswich, although losing players to the International break wont help.

Let's hope that there is more structure to the team and a better defensive set up as a consequence of today's hammering.

My thoughts go out to those who had to witness the game first hand and have to travel back to Hampshire.

[Patches O Houlihan]

31 minutes ago, SaintJackoInHurworth said:

Substitutions

* Why did it take so long to sub Holgate off?

With 15 mins gone I was thinking "Holgate needs to be swapped for Shea Charles, he's having a mare", but then I got to thinking "but what does that do to his confidence if he's subbed off halfway through the first half of his debut playing a league down? We seem to be back in control now (~06:00 - 29:00 minutes) let's see if he can settle and maybe make the change at half time." 

Commentators and me thought there was a chance we'd get one back in the last few mins of the first half, but of course we let in a third. We're very unlikely to come back from that so subbing Holgate at half time most likely doesn't gain you a win/draw it just saps the confidence of a new signing...

Holgate had a shocker and there's no disputing it, but I can kind of see why he stayed on as long as he did.

[Long Shot]

1 hour ago, saintant said:

RM lost a lot of street cred today presiding over that embarrassment.  Those nagging little doubts just got a whole lot bigger. The guy is very likeable so I hope this is a blip and we'll come back stronger but it was one hell of a wake-up call.

I agree with this. I had big doubts about his tippy tappy style which were partly eased by our performance at Hillsborough. All my fears have resurfaced after this embarrassment. 

Edited 2 September, 2023 by Long Shot

[Nordic Saint]

8 minutes ago, Miltonaggro said:

I think to play the way he wants to play you have to have the most able ball players in your respective league, high fitness and commitment. You can’t get away with weak links and have to weed out any quick smart. If Martin blows it it will be because he lacks a ruthless streak or can’t identify the clear weaknesses. 

Holgate and Manning were clear weak links today and he's just brought them here. You wouldn't think it would be possible to make an already weak defence any weaker but somehow he's managed it.

[Patches O Houlihan]

1 minute ago, Nordic Saint said:

Holgate and Manning were clear weak links today and he's just brought them here. You wouldn't think it would be possible to make an already weak defence any weaker but somehow he's managed it.

On the plus side we didn't pay anything for either of them...

[Lee On Solent Saint]

Our obsession to be Manchester City is likely to cost us any chance of promotion from this league. 

[Suhari]

Should we have gone all out for Dyche? Or the American fella (can't remember his name; think he had a TV show)? Oh....or Big Sam?

With the greatest respect, maybe Jones would've come good?

 

I didn't see the game BTW. Which I think is a good thing.

[AlexLaw76]

So far, we have beat 2 of the 3 promoted teams with a late goal and QPR at home (which they had many chances to hurt us).

We have conceded 9 against teams who will be top half/play off contenders. 

THAT has to improve or he wont have a job I doubt

[Weston Super Saint]

19 minutes ago, Suhari said:

Should we have gone all out for Dyche? Or the American fella (can't remember his name; think he had a TV show)? Oh....or Big Sam?

With the greatest respect, maybe Jones would've come good?

 

I didn't see the game BTW. Which I think is a good thing.

I'm assuming they wouldn't let you out of your padded cell with those suggestions.