Russell Martin

[Smirking_Saint]

Just now, davefizzy14 said:

Ok thanks. Do you think we would go for a big name like Gerrard or Vieira? 

I doubt we’ll look at Gerrard, think Vieira was on certain lists previous to Palace which could tie in with the rumours we’ve talked to him but dunno

[davefizzy14]

2 minutes ago, Smirking_Saint said:

I doubt we’ll look at Gerrard, think Vieira was on certain lists previous to Palace which could tie in with the rumours we’ve talked to him but dunno

Gerrard would be my top choice.

Edited 18 May, 2023 by davefizzy14

[Tamesaint]

So Nathan Jones is a born again Christian. Martin is a Buddhist.

Can SR extend their search for a manager into those who have no significant religious beliefs? 

 

[Crab Lungs]

thankfully doesn’t seem mental like Mad Nate. Seems like a proper decent bloke. But we’re not hiring Rylans perfect dinner date, we’re hiring the next Saints manager…. Having said that, watched his tactics piece earlier, was very thorough and gave good insight into the planning, prep and execution of a game…

[Turkish]

8 minutes ago, Crab Lungs said:

thankfully doesn’t seem mental like Mad Nate. Seems like a proper decent bloke. But we’re not hiring Rylans perfect dinner date, we’re hiring the next Saints manager…. Having said that, watched his tactics piece earlier, was very thorough and gave good insight into the planning, prep and execution of a game…

Can’t be arsed to watch it? Any inside info on setting traps, turnovers, red zones and false 9s?

[aintforever]

2 hours ago, Dusic said:

Assuming there is an even chsnce for every team at the start of the season then yes, thats the way to look at it.

But obviously in the real world there are significant nuances such as budget, existing squad, quality of opposition etc.

Not saying I am an expert in where MK Dons or Swansea were expected to finish but I doubt the expectstion for either was to win the league.

Now, the fact he can point to having implemented a clear style of play with both is clearly significant and is often the sign of a good coach. If I recall correctly Pochettino was fired from Espanyol when they were in a poor position but had drawn praise for implementing a clear style, just as he didnvery quickly with us.

Next season we will have one of the biggest budgets and in theory a squad of players who are better than what Swansea have. I would imagine Sport Republic think that with better players, Martin's style would be suited to achieving a higher finish. Whether that happens of course nobody knows, but to reduce a manager to simply where their team finishes in the league is a bit too simplistic.

But good managers get teams playing above expectations, especially in the lower leagues. I get the thinking behind it but fact is he hasn’t finished above mid-table when other managers have got teams promoted or up around the top on a shoestring.

[James G]

I think it must be this. The betting after the math.

Of the original 3, one was disregarded, the other 2 said no, so this must be our guy.

It's one of those stats manager guys, a real risk. Southampton haven't quite nailed the stats thing yet, and the squad is made up from two other playing styles.

But, there is money, plus we have multiple proven existing players from the Championship.

I do think it needs a more experienced manager 

[FarehamSaintJames]

I don’t think it’ll be Russell Martin.

Surely SR have to get this appointment right, don’t they?

Inexperienced and untried surely has to have been a monumental failure for them in the past eight months? (Jones and Selles).

They couldn’t possibly make the same mistake again, right…? 👀

[Doctoroncall]

2 hours ago, aintforever said:

Vincent Kompany it is then!

Russell Martin's MK Dons had great possession stats, but could only finish 13th in League 1. Swansea under him have finished 15th and 10th. They are the only stats that matter.

You missed my point, in general terms, there is a correlation on teams possession with position in the table. It’s more pronounced the further up the leagues. 
 

No idea how good RM is, too early in his career but we don’t have time to find out. 

[Crab Lungs]

9 hours ago, Turkish said:

Can’t be arsed to watch it? Any inside info on setting traps, turnovers, red zones and false 9s?

Not in that video but the coaches voice one above is Stacked with that kind of terminology in a thick Brighton accent. Got me right flustered.

Edited 19 May, 2023 by Crab Lungs

[wild-saint]

1 hour ago, FarehamSaintJames said:

I don’t think it’ll be Russell Martin.

Surely SR have to get this appointment right, don’t they?

Inexperienced and untried surely has to have been a monumental failure for them in the past eight months? (Jones and Selles).

They couldn’t possibly make the same mistake again, right…? 👀

Who are you thinking that realistic? I'm not massively enamoured by any of the names out there. Unfortunately the chance to get a decent name was in November last year and that chance has long since gone. To be honest i dont really care which one we get now, it will either work or it wont and I have no idea which way it will go. Although if you were asking me to bet my life on the outcome id probably go "Big Fail".

[Ex Lion Tamer]

4 minutes ago, wild-saint said:

Who are you thinking that realistic? I'm not massively enamoured by any of the names out there. Unfortunately the chance to get a decent name was in November last year and that chance has long since gone. To be honest i dont really care which one we get now, it will either work or it wont and I have no idea which way it will go. Although if you were asking me to bet my life on the outcome id probably go "Big Fail".

I'd go for Schumacher.

Feels like we've decided a style of play and are now trying to fit a coach to it, rather than getting the best man for the job.

 

[Wurzel]

11 hours ago, davefizzy14 said:

Gerrard would be my top choice.

Can you  imagine the arse licking Sky would give us if we appointed Gerrard next week and beat Liverpool in his one and only game for this season.  They'd have us on live every game next season if they could 🤣

 

[Christophenburg]

11 hours ago, davefizzy14 said:

Gerrard would be my top choice.

Why!? Gerrard has been found out since he and Michael Beale parted company, he offers absolutely nothing other then being an ex-player that people have heard of

[Nordic Saint]

Well if it is him and let's hope it isn't, it looks like they may have found someone even worse than Nathan Jones.

Martin's managerial career absolutely reeks of mediocrity. He took MK Dons to 19th and 13th in League One. He then took Swansea to 15th and 10th. His teams have a terrible defensive record as they keep getting caught out passing the ball around at the back. His win rate is a mediocre 36%.
 

[Dman]

1 hour ago, Ex Lion Tamer said:

I'd go for Schumacher.

Feels like we've decided a style of play and are now trying to fit a coach to it, rather than getting the best man for the job.

 

Martin is a big risk (one I think will back fire, badly), but how have you come to the conclusion that Schumacher is the best man for the job…

That would be another massively underwhelming appointment. 

Personally, I can’t see past anyone other Vieria. 

Edited 19 May, 2023 by Dman

[gammon cheeks]

According to Adam Blackmore he is top of the list .

[The very right reverend]

We need a manager of experience and knowledge, Mowbray, Alladyce if Leeds go down and they don't want him, we need a nasty spiteful old dog not some yes man bean counter.

[jayrivers]

I don't see why people are getting to annoyed about the Martin's link. He seems to play a good brand of football and has something about him tactically. It's clear ideally they want an up and coming British manager that we can build for the future with. 

Yes he might not work out, but writing him off as worse than Jones seems a tad extreme in my opinion. 

I'll get behind him, and get behind someone that will hopefully try and be progressive and get us playing football and actually trying to win matches. 

[Dman]

5 minutes ago, jayrivers said:

I don't see why people are getting to annoyed about the Martin's link. He seems to play a good brand of football and has something about him tactically. It's clear ideally they want an up and coming British manager that we can build for the future with. 

Yes he might not work out, but writing him off as worse than Jones seems a tad extreme in my opinion. 

I'll get behind him, and get behind someone that will hopefully try and be progressive and get us playing football and actually trying to win matches. 

Based on their records and what they’ve achieved in management, I’d actually say he’s worse than Jones. 

Whilst it was underwhelming and clearly not going to work based on the players we had and position we were in, Jones earned his right to get the chance in the PL.. had it come in the summer, who knows if things would have been different. 

Jones wasn’t right for us but he built the foundations of this Luton side which could now be in the PL. He was manager of the year in the championship and had a record of overachieving. 

Other than passing it around the back a bit, I don’t see anything that makes Martin stand out as a manager that has enough about him to take us up and keep us up. 
 

Desperate to find a young ‘upcoming manager’, will result in the same as spending all last summer buying young ‘upcoming players’. It’ll be a disaster. 

[The very right reverend]

9 minutes ago, jayrivers said:

I don't see why people are getting to annoyed about the Martin's link. He seems to play a good brand of football and has something about him tactically. It's clear ideally they want an up and coming British manager that we can build for the future with. 

Yes he might not work out, but writing him off as worse than Jones seems a tad extreme in my opinion. 

I'll get behind him, and get behind someone that will hopefully try and be progressive and get us playing football and actually trying to win matches. 

Its a terrible appointment, not because of who is who is (that is a side issue)(but I don't rate him and he is the cheap option) but its smacks of the board not learning from previous mistakes and doing the same thing again and again, arrogance, the previous model of appointments hasn't worked so would this one? He resume is worse than the previous managers, we need to change everything, we need hardnosed 30 year olds who'll fight to get us out of the league, the same goes for the manager.

[Dusic]

5 minutes ago, The very right reverend said:

Its a terrible appointment, not because of who is who is (that is a side issue)(but I don't rate him and he is the cheap option) but its smacks of the board not learning from previous mistakes and doing the same thing again and again, arrogance, the previous model of appointments hasn't worked so would this one? He resume is worse than the previous managers, we need to change everything, we need hardnosed 30 year olds who'll fight to get us out of the league, the same goes for the manager.

But it seems like he is totally different from the previous appointments in terms of style?

And he is actually experienced in the league that we will be in.

Much more so than a Vieira or Gerrard type.

[Turkish]

It’s a big thumbs up from Andrew 

 

 

[the saint in winchester]

11 minutes ago, The very right reverend said:

Its a terrible appointment, not because of who is who is (that is a side issue)(but I don't rate him and he is the cheap option) but its smacks of the board not learning from previous mistakes and doing the same thing again and again, arrogance, the previous model of appointments hasn't worked so would this one? He resume is worse than the previous managers, we need to change everything, we need hardnosed 30 year olds who'll fight to get us out of the league, the same goes for the manager.

That's the top and bottom of it, yes. We seem to have hardened ourselves to getting in 20 yo lads and instructing them to play out from the back, and keep possession above anything else, including getting forward and trying to score goals to win games. And looking for a coach that will go along with that.

How about discarding that play style and hiring the most successful manager we can afford, and asking him to set the tone and implement the playing style he recommends based on his experience, letting him recommend the players he wants, be they 23, 28 or 33.

[Suhari]

SR trying to be clever. Again.

It didn't work last time.

I understand it......try and hire the next Potter, Frank etc. but it's a big risk. For every Potter or Frank there's a chunk of Mad-Nates and a whole bunch of total averageness.

Always thought the SR model would be best implemented in a mid-table Championship club with a few seasons to build it (i.e. the next Brentford). Wasn't suited to the prem...is it suited to bouncing straight up?

Very risky.

[Fabrice29]

6 minutes ago, the saint in winchester said:

That's the top and bottom of it, yes. We seem to have hardened ourselves to getting in 20 yo lads and instructing them to play out from the back, and keep possession above anything else, including getting forward and trying to score goals to win games. And looking for a coach that will go along with that.

How about discarding that play style and hiring the most successful manager we can afford, and asking him to set the tone and implement the playing style he recommends based on his experience, letting him recommend the players he wants, be they 23, 28 or 33.

This is the complete opposite to what we’ve been doing for quite a few years now. 
 

Ralph was a heavily out of possession based manager. The playbook is based around that fundamentally and the in possession stuff comes after. 
 

Jones was lambasted for long ball football.

Selles has gone back to Ralph’s ways. 
 

We’ve looked cluessess in possession since the whole ‘Vestegaard diagonal to KWP or give it to Ings’ season. Having a manager who wants to focus on possession and goals scored is exactly what this squad needs. Carrick, Martin, Mowbray, whoever it maybe needs to be steadfast in creating attractive football and coaching our players to be better at it.

[Themotherfunky]

https://breakingthelines.com/manager-analysis/russell-martin-standing-by-his-principles-at-swansea/

Having a read through this doesn't fill me with hope. Being in possession this season didn't yield much of anything, fumbling about in the middle of the park while the other team reorganises at the back.

We've struggled for years with being too slow moving the ball forwards into the box, usually with too many players up top with no room for runs in behind or space for shots.

We need a manager who's good at moving the ball forward quickly with players making themselves available for passes, looking for the next pass forward or through on goal. It seems by the numbers that while Swansea had the most possession this season, they didn't do enough with it.

[warsash saint]

39 minutes ago, The very right reverend said:

Its a terrible appointment, not because of who is who is (that is a side issue)(but I don't rate him and he is the cheap option) but its smacks of the board not learning from previous mistakes and doing the same thing again and again, arrogance, the previous model of appointments hasn't worked so would this one? He resume is worse than the previous managers, we need to change everything, we need hardnosed 30 year olds who'll fight to get us out of the league, the same goes for the manager.

For a guy that wants Mowbray or Alladyce, i think we should take your opinion with a pinch of salt!!

[Crab Lungs]

41 minutes ago, Turkish said:

It’s a big thumbs up from Andrew 

 

 

Edozie might struggle, I don’t think he has much use for wingers. 

[trousers]

I'm gonna join the SWF "hope I'm proven wrong" gang....

Russell Martin? Not for me. I think the last thing we need right now is another Rasmus 'experimental' manager. What we need more than tick-box spreadsheet attributes is a manager who has a shed load of soft skills. That sense of gravitas and presence that you can't measure but you know is there.

Whether there is such a manager willing to join us is another matter of course...

[LGTL]

Appointing this guy would be another disaster by the geeks running this football club. Jones was mental, doing it twice would be really fucking mental. 

[SaintsFan86]

Jones went into the club like a babbling idiot, Asking rhe players what rhey wanted to play.. Instead of telling them which formation, and roles they were going to play.

Russell Martin will instill some leadership, And with a couple of stalwarts in the team too I'm sure we will be fine.

[Fabrice29]

47 minutes ago, Themotherfunky said:

https://breakingthelines.com/manager-analysis/russell-martin-standing-by-his-principles-at-swansea/

Having a read through this doesn't fill me with hope. Being in possession this season didn't yield much of anything, fumbling about in the middle of the park while the other team reorganises at the back.

We've struggled for years with being too slow moving the ball forwards into the box, usually with too many players up top with no room for runs in behind or space for shots.

We need a manager who's good at moving the ball forward quickly with players making themselves available for passes, looking for the next pass forward or through on goal. It seems by the numbers that while Swansea had the most possession this season, they didn't do enough with it.

That article is a year old fwiw.

This season they're statistically not too different from Burnley. Possession is basically the same (ever so slightly less) and shots per game is also ever so slightly less. They scored 20 goals less than Burnley, suggesting that if you give this guy better quality in the final third than he currently has it might yield similar results to Burnley. Therein lies the problem of course, whether we've got/will have the attack to deliver but the fundamentals of Martins Swansea are not dissimilar to a team that swept away the Championship this year.

 

Edited 19 May, 2023 by Fabrice29

[gammon cheeks]

if Martin comes surely we could get Joel Piroe aswell looks pretty decent striker ! 

[LegalEagle]

I see Tony Mowbray is being linked. I would prefer him to Martin but he has the feeling of a journeyman and that we could just do better. With the money that we’ll have for a couple of seasons and some of the squad that will be left, we must be up there as one of the two or three most attractive clubs in the Championship to manage. Maybe I’m wrong but with the right approach we could get someone better than these two. Carrick would be the best in my view of the current Championship crop along with those out of work that we all know about - Gerrard, Vieira etc

[trousers]

7 minutes ago, Fabrice29 said:

if you give this guy better quality in the final third than he currently has it might yield similar results to Burnley.

 

[Appy]

Seems much more “us” than Jones, at least there’s clearly some method in the madness, doesn’t half make me feel old that we could be appointing someone we played against in 2015/16

[FarehamSaintJames]

2 hours ago, Turkish said:

It’s a big thumbs up from Andrew 

 

 

Is he a re****?

 

They should just make Andrew manager. That would make Nathan Jones look like Pep.

Edited 19 May, 2023 by FarehamSaintJames

[revolution saint]

1 hour ago, trousers said:

I'm gonna join the SWF "hope I'm proven wrong" gang....

Russell Martin? Not for me. I think the last thing we need right now is another Rasmus 'experimental' manager. What we need more than tick-box spreadsheet attributes is a manager who has a shed load of soft skills. That sense of gravitas and presence that you can't measure but you know is there.

Whether there is such a manager willing to join us is another matter of course...

Completely agree.  Not every appointment has to be left field and different from everyone else - it's almost like they feel this appointment has to differentiate us from the crowd.  I'm not against possession based football but whoever comes in needs to be pragmatic and flexible rather than bound by principle to a particular style.  The job is to get us promoted and I couldn't give a toss how that's achieved. 

I'm also a bit confused about why we're now looking at managers who are only linked with a possession based game.  Why the fascination now?  It's the exact opposite of a Nathan Jones style of manager who they had tracked for a long time.  Smacks of someone desperate and chucking ideas out in the hope one of them will work out well.

Your soft skills point is well made - I'd much rather a manager who is a good motivator and can maintain discipline rather than a tactical genius that overthinks and leaves players wondering what they're supposed to be doing.

As you say, hope I'm proven wrong but...... 

[Fitzhugh Fella]

I must admit I’m not a fan of watching defenders tip tapping the ball around their own half just for the sake of being in possession. 

[Crab Lungs]

2 minutes ago, Fitzhugh Fella said:

I must admit I’m not a fan of watching defenders tip tapping the ball around their own half just for the sake of being in possession. 

Likewise but in one of his vids, he instructs his centre halves to keep the ball, sometimes just stand on it to encourage a press from the other team so as to open up space for a choreographed move.

’‘twas very technical. 

Edited 19 May, 2023 by Crab Lungs

[jayrivers]

8 minutes ago, revolution saint said:

Completely agree.  Not every appointment has to be left field and different from everyone else - it's almost like they feel this appointment has to differentiate us from the crowd.  I'm not against possession based football but whoever comes in needs to be pragmatic and flexible rather than bound by principle to a particular style.  The job is to get us promoted and I couldn't give a toss how that's achieved. 

I'm also a bit confused about why we're now looking at managers who are only linked with a possession based game.  Why the fascination now?  It's the exact opposite of a Nathan Jones style of manager who they had tracked for a long time.  Smacks of someone desperate and chucking ideas out in the hope one of them will work out well.

Your soft skills point is well made - I'd much rather a manager who is a good motivator and can maintain discipline rather than a tactical genius that overthinks and leaves players wondering what they're supposed to be doing.

As you say, hope I'm proven wrong but...... 

Because since then we have recruited Jason Wilcox who has different ideas he's bringing with him from City. This is about rebuilding the club in a style that's more successful and better suited to success. Whether this is the right decision or not is to be see, but that's where the change appears to have come from. It was also why Marsch decided against the job because we want to move away from the Red Bull style of football

[Ken Tone]

5 minutes ago, Crab Lungs said:

Likewise but in one of his vids, he instructs his centre halves to keep the ball, sometimes just stand on it to encourage a press from the other team so as to open up space for a choreographed move.

’‘twas very technical. 

The trouble with this sort of play is that it risks a monumental cock up, with eg an attacker latching on to a badly placed pass between defenders.

The main tactical change I've seen from Selles has been to get the keeper to pass to a centre back who passes it back again etc.  Fills me with fear every time!

[100%Red&White]

I think it will be interesting to see whether Selles is sent packing or if part of the deal for whoever's coming in is accommodating him in some kind of coaching role, hence the low bar with names linked. Clean sweep needed but beginning to sound like just more of the same tedious tactics. I'm not feeling enthused.

[Miltonaggro]

14 minutes ago, FarehamSaintJames said:

Is he a re****?

 

They should just make Andrew manager. That would make Nathan Jones look like Pep.

A controversial opinion...

[Miltonaggro]

1 hour ago, LGTL said:

Appointing this guy would be another disaster by the geeks running this football club. Jones was mental, doing it twice would be really fucking mental. 

I genuinely assumed that the NJ debacle would see the forced cessation of little Rasmus Ankersen's soccerball work experience programme, with Solak and Kraft closing ranks.  Not so sure given the current jungle drums, but early days perhaps.  Worst case scenario would be the uber-narcissist Ankersen pressing ahead with his data-advised choice and Wilcox deciding he wont be moving south after all. 

[The Oggmonster]

1 hour ago, Fabrice29 said:

That article is a year old fwiw.

This season they're statistically not too different from Burnley. Possession is basically the same (ever so slightly less) and shots per game is also ever so slightly less. They scored 20 goals less than Burnley, suggesting that if you give this guy better quality in the final third than he currently has it might yield similar results to Burnley. Therein lies the problem of course, whether we've got/will have the attack to deliver but the fundamentals of Martins Swansea are not dissimilar to a team that swept away the Championship this year.

 

His sides are quite poor defensively though, both Swansea and MK Dons conceded 60+ goals in a season under him. Needs to improve on that aspect for sure.

[davefizzy14]

Apparently according to a few people on twitter, Martin isn't even in America so who knows? Very Underwhelmed to be honest if he's near the top of our shortlist.

Edited 19 May, 2023 by davefizzy14

[revolution saint]

13 minutes ago, jayrivers said:

Because since then we have recruited Jason Wilcox who has different ideas he's bringing with him from City. This is about rebuilding the club in a style that's more successful and better suited to success. Whether this is the right decision or not is to be see, but that's where the change appears to have come from. It was also why Marsch decided against the job because we want to move away from the Red Bull style of football

And that's kind of my point - the idea that there's one style out there that guarantees success and it's just a case of finding it.  I'd be more interested in finding a manager who can look at the players we have and figure out what the best style would be for them (and obviously with the considerations of the league we're in).  I'd like a decent manager who will be pragmatic and flexible rather than a dogmatic ideologue.

Take your point about why it seems to be the case.

[Wade Garrett]

4 hours ago, Nordic Saint said:

Well if it is him and let's hope it isn't, it looks like they may have found someone even worse than Nathan Jones.

Martin's managerial career absolutely reeks of mediocrity. He took MK Dons to 19th and 13th in League One. He then took Swansea to 15th and 10th. His teams have a terrible defensive record as they keep getting caught out passing the ball around at the back. His win rate is a mediocre 36%.
 

It would be absolute madness to appoint him.  The stats demonstrate that.  Would be another Johnny Cleverbollocks appointment, doomed to fail.

What is the fucking point of continually passing sideways and backwards?  Certainly wouldn’t encourage me the renew my season ticket.  Would be the same shit I’ve endured this season, just in a different league.