Russell Martin

[Forester]

To mitigate against the risk that I am sure the Board are grappling with, re cost of sacking and risk of not getting next appointment right, I think if fans want a change (as I do) we need to accept that, because of the ridiculous delay in taking a decision that was obvious to most fans after the Bournemouth game, we now need to find a manager who will give us an outside chance of staying up but more likely would be a good fit to manage us in the championship.  Had we have acted sooner, we would have had more choice, something many of us pointed out two months ago.

So by definition that now rules out some of the bigger names.  I think a good choice under the circumstances would be Steve Cooper.  The case for:

- managed Swansea for two seasons and achieved play offs both times, the latter being beaten at Wembley 

- took Forest up at first ask

- kept Forest up first season, before being sacked in second season

- has just been sacked by Leicester, another promoted team, while being outside the bottom three.

He isn’t the sexy appointment some will want, but he fits the profile of available, and could manage in both divisions.

[OldNick]

6 minutes ago, Mr X said:

The thing is we are not like a Newcastle or one of the top six that simply wouldn't accept the situation their will be a few noises of discontent but then it will fizzle out.... Our fans will just go along with it by continuing to attend games..... Nothing says you've lost the fanbase like an empty stadium 

It seems that the social media is where the real groundswell is. I feel the fans at the games have been pretty understanding with a bit of booing. Any fan with any sense would have known that we were likely to struggle this season.

A mixture of bad mistakes and bad fortune have cost us at least 5 points. The last minute equaliser against Ipswich where their payer hit the ball and took a massive deflection was bad luck, Leicester last minute winner with a scuffed shot another, let alone the poor VAR decisions has been costly. 

I agree we have made a lot of our own luck due to poor decisions by manager and players.

To methe players are giving it all and surely we will get a better run of fortune.

If he fails to pick TP when he is fit and It will be the end of any sympathy from me, as he gives us another option

[Miltonaggro]

16 minutes ago, Mr X said:

The thing is we are not like a Newcastle or one of the top six that simply wouldn't accept the situation their will be a few noises of discontent but then it will fizzle out.... Our fans will just go along with it by continuing to attend games..... Nothing says you've lost the fanbase like an empty stadium 

Lots of pissed off and angry people in the crowd around me at final whistle last home game and half empty stands with 30 minutes to go. As placid and reasonable as saints fans are I think times up for Martin. SR are negligent in allowing resentment to simmer, but that epitomises the owners we have. 

[derry]

I know it's not traditional in football however I think the owners are missing a trick. Sack the manager gives change, good or bad. If it was my club, I would do two things, firstly I would order Martin and his staff to cut out the mistake ridden short passing in our final third, secondly I'd call in the players and instruct them likewise. Martin then has a choice comply or be suspended.

[Toussaint]

I didn't bother posting this before, it seemed a bit petty, but now I think, so what!

I was sitting  directly behind the coaches and subs at the Everton game.  Martin jumped up to remonstrate with the fourth official at something he didn't like. However, between "jumping up", and "dashing over" to the fourth official, he actually took a time-out to coiffure his hair with both hands, presumably in preparation for the cameras panning to him. He really is a vain chap, not someone I can relate to at all.

[Mr X]

2 minutes ago, derry said:

I know it's not traditional in football however I think the owners are missing a trick. Sack the manager gives change, good or bad. If it was my club, I would do two things, firstly I would order Martin and his staff to cut out the mistake ridden short passing in our final third, secondly I'd call in the players and instruct them likewise. Martin then has a choice comply or be suspended.

But they knew exactly what they were getting with Martin he said from the very start this is how my teams play he has never done anything different at any of the clubs hes managed

[Miltonaggro]

4 minutes ago, Toussaint said:

I didn't bother posting this before, it seemed a bit petty, but now I think, so what!

I was sitting  directly behind the coaches and subs at the Everton game.  Martin jumped up to remonstrate with the fourth official at something he didn't like. However, between "jumping up", and "dashing over" to the fourth official, he actually took a time-out to coiffure his hair with both hands, presumably in preparation for the cameras panning to him. He really is a vain chap, not someone I can relate to at all.

I think it’s likely there are a few posters who have the same teasy weasy ritual before posting on here! 

[Mr X]

10 minutes ago, Miltonaggro said:

Lots of pissed off and angry people in the crowd around me at final whistle last home game and half empty stands with 30 minutes to go. As placid and reasonable as saints fans are I think times up for Martin. SR are negligent in allowing resentment to simmer, but that epitomises the owners we have. 

I hope you are right and they raise the stakes at Tottenham (in a non violent way) 

[derry]

6 minutes ago, Mr X said:

But they knew exactly what they were getting with Martin he said from the very start this is how my teams play he has never done anything different at any of the clubs hes managed

They and Martin knew what they were getting in the Championship. He had no experience in the Premier League and the way he is instructing the players isn't working worse still his methods are causing defeats. The owners have a right to make changes.

Edited 10 December, 2024 by derry

[Saint Keef]

27 minutes ago, Toussaint said:

I didn't bother posting this before, it seemed a bit petty, but now I think, so what!

I was sitting  directly behind the coaches and subs at the Everton game.  Martin jumped up to remonstrate with the fourth official at something he didn't like. However, between "jumping up", and "dashing over" to the fourth official, he actually took a time-out to coiffure his hair with both hands, presumably in preparation for the cameras panning to him. He really is a vain chap, not someone I can relate to at all.

 

21 minutes ago, Miltonaggro said:

I think it’s likely there are a few posters who have the same teasy weasy ritual before posting on here! 

Exactly. I have nothing to say, but I did have a full manicure before telling you guys that I had nothing to say.

[Wade Garrett]

31 minutes ago, derry said:

I know it's not traditional in football however I think the owners are missing a trick. Sack the manager gives change, good or bad. If it was my club, I would do two things, firstly I would order Martin and his staff to cut out the mistake ridden short passing in our final third, secondly I'd call in the players and instruct them likewise. Martin then has a choice comply or be suspended.

I would just fuck him off.

[BARCELONASAINT]

There must be a point where the owners accept that we are relegated and that a change of manager will make no change at all. I honestly thought before a ball was kicked this season we would be relegated and i honestly think a change in manager now will not change that. Do i think we will appoint a new manager? Well i didn't until last weekend and heard RM's prematch comments and his comments after the game. Now i think a change is coming but who and on what basis god only knows.

If we are to believe the rumours that the Man City number 2 was lined up then this only further confirms the owners want any manager coming in to play the same style of football.

I actually think the owners did not expect us to be promoted at the first time of asking (we were not one of the best 3 sides in the Championship) I think the plan for Southampton is a long term one with whoever is the manager being asked to play a certain way (I believe RM was chosen as manager because of how his teams play and he is playing the system asked of him) We just clearly do not have the players to play it.

For me this season is a combination of the board already accepting we were promoted a season too early and with too many Championship players on long contracts. So many of our transfers say "this player will be perfect for a promotion push in the Championship".

It's a bloody depressing state of affairs for us fans but i am desperately trying to see inside whatever the bigger picture is.

[Toussaint]

6 minutes ago, Wade Garrett said:

I would just fuck him off.

Agreed, you can’t have him sulking and stinking out the place. He’s far to conceited to accept advice with good grace.

[Wurzel]

38 minutes ago, Toussaint said:

I didn't bother posting this before, it seemed a bit petty, but now I think, so what!

I was sitting  directly behind the coaches and subs at the Everton game.  Martin jumped up to remonstrate with the fourth official at something he didn't like. However, between "jumping up", and "dashing over" to the fourth official, he actually took a time-out to coiffure his hair with both hands, presumably in preparation for the cameras panning to him. He really is a vain chap, not someone I can relate to at all.

Something Boris Johnson was know for.  I'll leave others to make further comparisons 😇

[derry]

11 minutes ago, Wade Garrett said:

I would just fuck him off.

Works for me.🤣

Edited 10 December, 2024 by derry

[gurru991]

2 hours ago, Forester said:

To mitigate against the risk that I am sure the Board are grappling with, re cost of sacking and risk of not getting next appointment right, I think if fans want a change (as I do) we need to accept that, because of the ridiculous delay in taking a decision that was obvious to most fans after the Bournemouth game, we now need to find a manager who will give us an outside chance of staying up but more likely would be a good fit to manage us in the championship.  Had we have acted sooner, we would have had more choice, something many of us pointed out two months ago.

So by definition that now rules out some of the bigger names.  I think a good choice under the circumstances would be Steve Cooper.  The case for:

- managed Swansea for two seasons and achieved play offs both times, the latter being beaten at Wembley 

- took Forest up at first ask

- kept Forest up first season, before being sacked in second season

- has just been sacked by Leicester, another promoted team, while being outside the bottom three.

He isn’t the sexy appointment some will want, but he fits the profile of available, and could manage in both divisions.

As a Leicester City supporter I would strongly recommend against Steve Cooper !!!   He was one of the poorest managers I have ever watched. 

[Tommy Mulgrew]

You’ve not watched many Saints’ games then?

[Nordic Saint]

5 hours ago, gurru991 said:

As a Leicester City supporter I would strongly recommend against Steve Cooper !!!   He was one of the poorest managers I have ever watched. 

Your club did very well to act quickly and appoint Ruud van Nistelrooy.  What a massive lift for you all his arrival must be. 

Edited 10 December, 2024 by Nordic Saint

[Whitey Grandad]

3 hours ago, Forester said:

I would give my right arm for a boring 8th placed finish, or 43 points finishing anywhere in the table!

We wouldn't finish 8th with 43 points. It always used to be considered that 42 points was the safety level.

Personally I'd rather keep my right arm. I'm rather fond of it.

[Pamplemousse]

So he still hasn't been sacked then?

 

What a joke. We have a nice little run of (somewhat) easier games that a new manager would love. 2 wins and a draw before the end of the year would put us right back in contention.

Edited 10 December, 2024 by Pamplemousse

[OnceaSaintalwaysaSaint]

I see from the BBC website that the Wolves Board are keeping the faith with O'Neil on the basis that they have the belief the squad are good enough to get out of the danger zone and O'Neil can lead them to do it.

Don't get any ideas SR. Russell is not the person to get us out of our mess.

[Harry_SFC]

25 minutes ago, OnceaSaintalwaysaSaint said:

I see from the BBC website that the Wolves Board are keeping the faith with O'Neil on the basis that they have the belief the squad are good enough to get out of the danger zone and O'Neil can lead them to do it.

Don't get any ideas SR. Russell is not the person to get us out of our mess.

Well at least the Wolves board have said something about their situation, which is still a lot better than ours.

You'd think everything was going swimmingly the way SR are acting. 

Edited 10 December, 2024 by Harry_SFC

[CanadaSaint]

The number of 12 million has been bandied about for cleaning house on the coaching side but I don't think anyone on here really knows.

The fact that we just accept numbers of that magnitude as plausible - and the entire notion of lengthy “gardening leave” - is indicative of everything that’s wrong in the spoilt, cosseted, cloud-cuckoo world of the PL.

In the real world, people aren’t free to produce dire results without consequences; there are termination provisions in contracts, and employment law to cover those without contracts. As I remember it, the law addresses “dismissal for cause” and “dismissal without cause”, and cause has to be proven: “M’Lud, I cite 5 points from 15 games, recurrent mistakes, criticism from almost all of the football world, widespread anger in the fan base, and open disrespect shown to paying customers – including, allegedly, an instruction to ‘fuck off’. I could go on, M'Lud.”

But regardless of whether it’s for cause or without cause, the departing employee has a duty to mitigate his/her loss by actively seeking employment to replace at least some of the lost income. That doesn’t mean waiting for another job as a PL head coach – it means employment in his/her field. There’s no licence in the real world to sit on their ass and do nothing, or nurture the veggies in their allotment, while their contract runs down.

It’s difficult to imagine that Martin’s contract is completely silent on this stuff – even accounting for the fact that we’re talking about the PL in general and Sports Republic in particular.

Every employee is subject to reasonable supervision, and this – to me – is where SR have been utterly inept. Martin acts like, sounds like and looks like someone who only reports to his own ego. If SR really don't intend to fire him, they need to wake the fuck up and start telling him as pointedly as necessary what he needs to change. That's certainly not my preferred option but they need to either piss or get off the pot before it cracks wide open.

[Saintsfan79]

31 minutes ago, Pamplemousse said:

So he still hasn't been sacked then?

 

What a joke. We have a nice little run of (somewhat) easier games that a new manager would love. 2 wins and a draw before the end of the year would put us right back in contention.

Who's to say we won't? However unlikely I agree but that can be done with or without Martin.

We all slate him but the players are literally weak as piss also, If you're telling me every player in a 25man squad is on his side and will only play by his tactics and happy with his tombola team selection week in week out then the only player I think we should keep on is ABK.

Sometimes the blame can be on players also they are shocking.

Did sports republic buy who lego wanted or did someone they employ decide the style/perfect fit for the way he wants to play football?.

 

Anyway it's just a huge cluster fuck.

[badgerx16]

Presumably losing to Spurs will not get him the sack.

Every game he stays in charge reduces the already slender possibility that a change of manager gives us a faint chance of escaping the drop.

[adrian lord]

5 minutes ago, badgerx16 said:

Presumably losing to Spurs will not get him the sack.

Every game he stays in charge reduces the already slender possibility that a change of manager gives us a faint chance of escaping the drop.

Yep.

 

This is slow motion suicide. 

[miserableoldgit]

2 minutes ago, adrian lord said:

Yep.

 

This is slow motion suicide. 

Exactly what it feels like!!

[gurru991]

8 minutes ago, Tommy Mulgrew said:

You’ve not watched many Saints’ games then?

I've watched quite a few actually but I get your point.  Cooper would not be much of an upgrade on Martin even though if I had to choose I would take Cooper over Martin

[Gingeletiss]

32 minutes ago, gurru991 said:

I've watched quite a few actually but I get your point.  Cooper would not be much of an upgrade on Martin even though if I had to choose I would take Cooper over Martin

We would take Tommy Cooper, over Martin.

[gurru991]

2 hours ago, Nordic Saint said:

You club did very well to act quickly and appoint Ruud van Nistelrooy.  What a massive lift for you all his arrival must be. 

We took a lot of criticism for acting so quickly but it definitely was the right decision. Cooper wasn't working for us & a change was needed. You guys could still turn your season around but it will need a managerial change in the very near future.

[sambosa75]

Cooper doesn’t strike me as someone who’s going to come in, shake things up and get the players behind him.  I’m surprised he seems such a popular choice, just because he’s got recent PL experience, one of which is an unsuccessful spell at one of our relegation rivals.

[Harry_SFC]

1 minute ago, sambosa75 said:

Cooper doesn’t strike me as someone who’s going to come in, shake things up and get the players behind him.  I’m surprised he seems such a popular choice, just because he’s got recent PL experience, one of which is an unsuccessful spell at one of our relegation rivals.

Agreed. It's probably just because it's anyone but Martin, so it's kinda understandable. 

[Galway saint]

No one with any kudos is going to come here at the moment, so lets be realistic. 

We are bound to be relegated, have one of the worst attacks in the PL in recent memory, one proper CM and a bloated squad that has only a few decent players you might consider PL standard.

I’d agree we get rid of RM otherwise it’s going to turn toxic pretty soon and he’s run his course,  but you’d be concerned who they would bring in. these are the people who thought that nathan jones was a good fit. 

At least lampard is otherwise engaged. 

 

 

[trousers]

7 hours ago, BARCELONASAINT said:

I actually think the owners did not expect us to be promoted at the first time of asking

I may be misremembering here, but didn't one of the head honchos (Parsons?) at the last Solent Fan Forum state that there was a huge sigh of relief in the boardroom when we got promoted because we'd have been in a spot of bother financially if we hadn't come straight back up...?

[verlaine1979]

There's no way SR bought us as a premier league club, saw us relegated with one of the biggest budgets in the Championship, and thought "you know what, we should stay down here for a couple of seasons to get our bearings". It's fucking moronic.

[Jack]

1 hour ago, verlaine1979 said:

There's no way SR bought us as a premier league club, saw us relegated with one of the biggest budgets in the Championship, and thought "you know what, we should stay down here for a couple of seasons to get our bearings". It's fucking moronic.

It’s almost like they haven’t got the faintest fucking idea what they’re doing 

[Weston Super Saint]

7 hours ago, verlaine1979 said:

There's no way SR bought us as a premier league club, saw us relegated with one of the biggest budgets in the Championship, and thought "you know what, we should stay down here for a couple of seasons to get our bearings". It's fucking moronic.

And yet, allegedly, that was the plan.

The new plan of course is to get us back there as soon as possible - we even spunked millions of this year's transfer budget on players for the Championship next season. Allegedly.

[Toussaint]

16 hours ago, Forester said:

To mitigate against the risk that I am sure the Board are grappling with, re cost of sacking and risk of not getting next appointment right, I think if fans want a change (as I do) we need to accept that, because of the ridiculous delay in taking a decision that was obvious to most fans after the Bournemouth game, we now need to find a manager who will give us an outside chance of staying up but more likely would be a good fit to manage us in the championship.  Had we have acted sooner, we would have had more choice, something many of us pointed out two months ago.

So by definition that now rules out some of the bigger names.  I think a good choice under the circumstances would be Steve Cooper.  The case for:

- managed Swansea for two seasons and achieved play offs both times, the latter being beaten at Wembley 

- took Forest up at first ask

- kept Forest up first season, before being sacked in second season

- has just been sacked by Leicester, another promoted team, while being outside the bottom three.

He isn’t the sexy appointment some will want, but he fits the profile of available, and could manage in both divisions.

For me it’s quite a simple equation, the risk of changing manager versus the absolute certainty of relegation if we don’t. 

[CB Fry]

7 hours ago, verlaine1979 said:

There's no way SR bought us as a premier league club, saw us relegated with one of the biggest budgets in the Championship, and thought "you know what, we should stay down here for a couple of seasons to get our bearings". It's fucking moronic.

 

19 minutes ago, Weston Super Saint said:

And yet, allegedly, that was the plan.

The new plan of course is to get us back there as soon as possible - we even spunked millions of this year's transfer budget on players for the Championship next season. Allegedly.

You people just don't understand top level football like the geniuses at Sport Republic and the handful of awfully clever types on here who think this is the masterplan.

[Charlie Wayman]

16 hours ago, Miltonaggro said:

I think it’s likely there are a few posters who have the same teasy weasy ritual before posting on here! 

A quick polish is enough for many of us on here

[Miltonaggro]

18 minutes ago, Charlie Wayman said:

A quick polish is enough for many of us on here

Think there are a few keen on that too. Perhaps the same ones…

[aintforever]

2 hours ago, Toussaint said:

For me it’s quite a simple equation, the risk of changing manager versus the absolute certainty of relegation if we don’t. 

The equation is simpler than that, we are down regardless of who is manager. We could hire Jurgan Klopp and give him £100mill to spend and we would still be odds on to go down.

Any appointment now need to be with next season's promotion attempt in mind.

[disconnect]

3 minutes ago, aintforever said:

The equation is simpler than that, we are down regardless of who is manager. We could hire Jurgan Klopp and give him £100mill to spend and we would still be odds on to go down.

Any appointment now need to be with next season's promotion attempt in mind.

If Klopp was our manager we would have probably at least 15 points by now.

[Saint Marky]

2 hours ago, Weston Super Saint said:

And yet, allegedly, that was the plan.

The new plan of course is to get us back there as soon as possible - we even spunked millions of this year's transfer budget on players for the Championship next season. Allegedly.

It’s comical that someone would post that our boards plan at the start of the season, was to buy championship standard players in preparation for the goal of relegation, with the goal of promotion back to the prem the following year and then rinse and repeat . I suspect with building a multi million pound empire, our owner is probably a bit more business savvy than that! A series of random picture clues and info from some Brighton season ticket holding farm- hands, isn’t enough to convince me otherwise. What is very bizarre is the fact Ramus has still not intervened and removed the single most obvious reason we find ourselves in this embarrassing predicament.

[scumbag]

It would be just our luck that they'll sack him, and then we'll lose to whoever he's managing in next season's playoff final.

That level of skepticism represents a new low - even for me.

[trousers]

3 minutes ago, scumbag said:

It would be just our luck that they'll sack him, and then we'll lose to whoever he's managing in next season's playoff final.

That level of skepticism represents a new low - even for me.

That scenario could be even worse if the other team is that cesspit of a club down the road...

[BARCELONASAINT]

11 hours ago, trousers said:

I may be misremembering here, but didn't one of the head honchos (Parsons?) at the last Solent Fan Forum state that there was a huge sigh of relief in the boardroom when we got promoted because we'd have been in a spot of bother financially if we hadn't come straight back up...?

you may be absolutely correct and if that is the case then nothing they have done since makes any sense at all

Edited 11 December, 2024 by BARCELONASAINT

[east-stand-nic]

Math equation time. Does anyone on this forum believe with a good Manager this squad could get 46 points over 38 games. I think probably yes.

I figure 33/34 points will be about enough to stay up. So, we need another 28-29 points from 23 games; around 1.2 points per game. I believe a decent manager, Moyes, Potter, AN other etc., could average 1.2 points per game from now to the end of the season. So, why is everyone saying we are nailed on down? Yes, if RM remains in charge we are 100% down. But IF we make a good change I think we could still do it.

[Toussaint]

3 minutes ago, east-stand-nic said:

Math equation time. Does anyone on this forum believe with a good Manager this squad could get 46 points over 38 games. I think probably yes.

I figure 33/34 points will be about enough to stay up. So, we need another 28-29 points from 23 games; around 1.2 points per game. I believe a decent manager, Moyes, Potter, AN other etc., could average 1.2 points per game from now to the end of the season. So, why is everyone saying we are nailed on down? Yes, if RM remains in charge we are 100% down. But IF we make a good change I think we could still do it.

So do I, at least die trying...

 

[Dirkdiggler]

15 minutes ago, east-stand-nic said:

Math equation time. Does anyone on this forum believe with a good Manager this squad could get 46 points over 38 games. I think probably yes.

I figure 33/34 points will be about enough to stay up. So, we need another 28-29 points from 23 games; around 1.2 points per game. I believe a decent manager, Moyes, Potter, AN other etc., could average 1.2 points per game from now to the end of the season. So, why is everyone saying we are nailed on down? Yes, if RM remains in charge we are 100% down. But IF we make a good change I think we could still do it.

If it’s still an outside chance that we can stay up by getting rid of RM and installing a decent manager/coach then surely it’s worth the risk?

Anyone know the money side? What the cost difference is between staying up having paid off RM and going down still continuing with this debacle?