Russell Martin

[Whitey Grandad]

52 minutes ago, Bakovnetski said:

Which in retrospect I can do for finishing 8th.

On how many points?

[OldNick]

1 hour ago, Bakovnetski said:

Which in retrospect I can do for finishing 8th.

It was boring as we just couldnt put the ball into the net so that we as fans had the rush of a goal. I think we missed at least one penalty in those final games

[sadoldgit]

6 hours ago, CSA96 said:

Cool, but the manager of that team got sacked for being boring, which was repeatedly levelled at him by the fanbase… 

I’d be very happy with boring but putting some points on the board at the moment. Boring and 8th, who wouldn’t take that now?

Sport is fundamentally about competing and, ideally, getting a result. Entertainment is a by product of that and a bonus if it happens.

Edited 10 December, 2024 by sadoldgit

[Whitey Grandad]

Just now, sadoldgit said:

I’d be very happy with boring but putting some points on the board at the moment. Boring and 8th, who wouldn’t take that now?

We wouldn't get 8th with the number of points that we had then.

[Lighthouse]

9 hours ago, Dark Munster said:

Boring Puel out!!

It was memorable but it was also one of the very few instances of a Puel team attacking with pace and purpose, and against a team who'd gone gung-ho trying to find an equaliser from a corner. We'd have lost that game quite comfortably nine times out of ten.

[Toussaint]

Eddie How on the up front podcast with Simon Jordan “Russel Martin has a great future” 

what am I missing? 

 

[Holmes_and_Watson]

Just now, Toussaint said:

Eddie How on the up front podcast with Simon Jordan “Russel Martin has a great future” 

what am I missing? 

 

All the other managers are in awe of him managing to stay in post, when every one of them would have been given the boot by their club long ago.

Or, they all see the long term value of the process/project/philosophy (the 3 "p" although you can come up with others) and it's tactical, data driven approach. They look forward to it's inevitable, but not necessarily near, success.

[Wade Garrett]

9 minutes ago, Toussaint said:

Eddie How on the up front podcast with Simon Jordan “Russel Martin has a great future” 

what am I missing? 

 

What else is he going to say?

They praise him to the rafters because they want him to stay in post.  It’s an easy 6 points and they can rest players.

How many managers has Pep praised after he has actually been beaten?  Did he praise the Palace guy at the weekend after the draw?  No, his comments and those of other managers regarding The Idiot, need to be taken with a massive pinch of salt.

[kitch]

1 hour ago, Bakovnetski said:

Which in retrospect I can do for finishing 8th.

8th place papered over the cracks - we were closer to 17th than 7th. Much of our finishing position came down to other teams being shit, not us being good. He'd also lost the dressing room. Seemed a good man, but not much of a motivator!

[Lee On Solent Saint]

14 minutes ago, Toussaint said:

Eddie How on the up front podcast with Simon Jordan “Russel Martin has a great future” 

what am I missing? 

 

Easy for him to say that. In another world, SR could have been his employers 

[beatlesaint]

2 minutes ago, Wade Garrett said:

How many managers has Pep praised after he has actually been beaten?  Did he praise the Palace guy at the weekend after the draw?  No, his comments and those of other managers regarding The Idiot, need to be taken with a massive pinch of salt.

Yeah, Fergie did it all the time, Klopp too, they all do. If you roll over for the big boys you get a pat on the head and a "well done you". Woe betide anyone who gets a point or a win against them !

The biggest issue with Martin is his arrogance has prevented him sticking by the old, well worn saying that when promoted you have to earn your right to play your way in the league. He has failed to do that big time and will continue to do it. 

[tdmickey3]

Martin epitomises what happens when you go for stability but accept gross incompetence 

[Mr X]

I honestly can't believe how far the owners and board are living in cloud cuckoo land!.... I'm sure they buy into Russ's its going to click any second and we will be unstoppable spiel! I don't want us to lose against Tottenham but we are going to anyway so we may as well get an absolute thrashing in the vain hope that it will force their hand! Honestly I think martin could replace Stephens and they would still see it as revolutionary thinking! 

[Toussaint]

49 minutes ago, Wade Garrett said:

What else is he going to say?

They praise him to the rafters because they want him to stay in post.  It’s an easy 6 points and they can rest players.

How many managers has Pep praised after he has actually been beaten?  Did he praise the Palace guy at the weekend after the draw?  No, his comments and those of other managers regarding The Idiot, need to be taken with a massive pinch of salt.

What surprised me more with this one is that  it was Howe who bought him into the conversation. He wasn’t directly lead into it by Jordan.

[BERMUDASAINT]

Why would RM be good to have when we go back to championship? He complained last year when he took over he had to instill confidence and restore the players bravery because of the previous shit season. How will the players feel when it is him that delivers the worst season in the PL? How will he raise thier spirits if RM cause the trauma? It just dont make sense!

[goodymatt]

Like many I’m not sure I believe he’s going to turn it around and it feels a matter of when, not if we will part company. Damage is done.

I would partially agree with Martin on the luck side of things. VAR, injuries to key players, last min deflections - you make your own luck but we have not had the rub of the green often this season. Would a full strength team have got more points? Would we have potentially up to 10 more without VAR? 

I think I’ve landed on he’s not good enough, neither are the players and relegation seems just as likely now as it has all season as a result. Making a change now will cost us (£12m?) and not change the outcome. 

Either Martin manages to get us performing better and we can take that into the promotion push or he will have to be replaced. Players do appear to still be playing for him at the moment, which is surprising given the results to date.

[Bakovnetski]

5 hours ago, Whitey Grandad said:

On how many points?

Does it matter? The table reflects the competition that year. We finished above the pack (not Man City and Spurs as I said previously..wrong year)

After that we finished with 36, 39, 52, 43, 40, then 25 and bottom.

Edited 10 December, 2024 by Bakovnetski

[disconnect]

How on earth did he get that new contract in the summer? Unless it was part of the package, that has basically cost us the season if we cant afford to sack him. Note, no other club seems to have this issue... Classic Saints...

[Dirkdiggler]

10 hours ago, Saint86 said:

There are plenty of things to criticise martin about without trotting out this fairly nonsensical one liner. Did i live in a parallel universe where we weren't the worst of the sides to get relegated, where we didn't then sell £160M of players and completely change the playing style, and where Ipswich didn't exist (let alone didn't get 96points)?! He got us promoted when we weren't one of the best 3 sides in the league. Fair play to him - great memories at Wembley and something we'll all remember fondly.

And this season, the reality is that as much as we're all pissed off with him - its fundamentally because the players aren't good enough for his style at this level, and because he refuses to do anything other than go out doing it his way. Which is a recipe for disaster, grates with people, and everyone is tired and fed up of losing... It doesn't mean he's now a manager incapable of getting us out of the championship again.

I said it fairly on in the season, if the board are going to keep him regardless, then they need to just come out and say it. If they don't do this, or keep him around just to sack him later on, then all they're going to cause a lot of damage and negativity to set into the club. Also the stress and uncertainty it puts on Martin and his team cannot be healthy and isn't nice to watch on a human level, and publicly stating the plan (is there even a plan) would end any uncertainty with the fans which is now starting to become quite toxic, and similarly it must be getting to the players by now. 

If we get relegated and keep him, the reality is he'll more than likely do fine in the championship. He's more experienced now than he was previously, he knows his players, and ultimately he got us promoted last year despite not having a top 3 team, and despite having an absolute car crash start to the season re players leaving and arriving from one weekend to the next and being tasked with turning around both player morale and utterly changing the playing style.

I say all that after being utterly furious with him at times this season and calling for him to go... but then i ask myself - do i think anyone else will keep us up? No. Do i think Martin will get us promoted next season? Yes probably..... and so, unless we can get someone in who wants the job, who'll stick around next season, and who clearly is a better pick that Martin (all 3 combined is unlikely lets be honest), then i don't see what we gain in sacking him in a hurry to be honest. Even if it is a car crash season, adding more instability to the club isn't going to help us - as Benali said, what we need is stability again.

Hi Russ/Lucy…

[Bakovnetski]

5 hours ago, OldNick said:

It was boring as we just couldnt put the ball into the net so that we as fans had the rush of a goal. I think we missed at least one penalty in those final games

So pretty much the same as we have been this season? No. 10th after 15 games with 20 points and a zero goal difference. Goals scored per game 1.08 vs 0.73 this. Goals conceded 1,26 vs 2.07

With 12 wins in total by the beginning of April they took their foot off (probably still after being robbed at Wembley) and had a poor run of form after.

I'll take boring in retrospect for sure.

 

 

Edited 10 December, 2024 by Bakovnetski

[Greenridge]

29 minutes ago, disconnect said:

How on earth did he get that new contract in the summer? Unless it was part of the package, that has basically cost us the season if we cant afford to sack him. Note, no other club seems to have this issue... Classic Saints...

Would imagine it’s fairly standard practice that managers who achieve promotion automatically trigger a contract extension / review. 

[saintant]

2 hours ago, Toussaint said:

Eddie How on the up front podcast with Simon Jordan “Russel Martin has a great future” 

what am I missing? 

 

Yeah but not as a Premier League manager.

[Whitey Grandad]

36 minutes ago, Bakovnetski said:

Does it matter? The table reflects the competition that year. We finished 1 above Man City and 2 above Spurs.

After that we finished with 47 and then bottom with 32.

It only matters if you think that our finishing position was a reflection on how well we played.

[lambtiss]

10 hours ago, Saint86 said:

There are plenty of things to criticise martin about without trotting out this fairly nonsensical one liner. Did i live in a parallel universe where we weren't the worst of the sides to get relegated, where we didn't then sell £160M of players and completely change the playing style, and where Ipswich didn't exist (let alone didn't get 96points)?! He got us promoted when we weren't one of the best 3 sides in the league. Fair play to him - great memories at Wembley and something we'll all remember fondly.

And this season, the reality is that as much as we're all pissed off with him - its fundamentally because the players aren't good enough for his style at this level, and because he refuses to do anything other than go out doing it his way. Which is a recipe for disaster, grates with people, and everyone is tired and fed up of losing... It doesn't mean he's now a manager incapable of getting us out of the championship again.

I said it fairly on in the season, if the board are going to keep him regardless, then they need to just come out and say it. If they don't do this, or keep him around just to sack him later on, then all they're going to cause a lot of damage and negativity to set into the club. Also the stress and uncertainty it puts on Martin and his team cannot be healthy and isn't nice to watch on a human level, and publicly stating the plan (is there even a plan) would end any uncertainty with the fans which is now starting to become quite toxic, and similarly it must be getting to the players by now. 

If we get relegated and keep him, the reality is he'll more than likely do fine in the championship. He's more experienced now than he was previously, he knows his players, and ultimately he got us promoted last year despite not having a top 3 team, and despite having an absolute car crash start to the season re players leaving and arriving from one weekend to the next and being tasked with turning around both player morale and utterly changing the playing style.

I say all that after being utterly furious with him at times this season and calling for him to go... but then i ask myself - do i think anyone else will keep us up? No. Do i think Martin will get us promoted next season? Yes probably..... and so, unless we can get someone in who wants the job, who'll stick around next season, and who clearly is a better pick that Martin (all 3 combined is unlikely lets be honest), then i don't see what we gain in sacking him in a hurry to be honest. Even if it is a car crash season, adding more instability to the club isn't going to help us - as Benali said, what we need is stability again.

This is very contradictory but ultimately overly supportive of Russ. On one hand, you acknowledge that Russ is part of the problem "because he refuses to do anything other than go out doing it his way" and yet you want him to stay on and have a chance next season. as you think he will probably get us promoted again. I fundamentally disagree with this proposition.

1) A manager that can see that his way is failing (miserably) in any league but arrogantly refuses to change should be sacked.

2) The promotion from the Championship, whilst a wonderful day out, was more luck based than careful managerial planning (Bazunu's injury played a big part, forcing Russ to abandon his possession obsession approach).

3) The main reason we ended up in the play-offs was that even Championship teams had sussed out that Russ has one matchday approach only and they set up accordingly resulting in a very poor set of results during the crucial run-in period.

4) After the Wembley success, most Saint's fans could see that Russ's possession, obsession tactic had been sussed and was generally not succeeding against poorer quality Championship teams and therefore was never going to work in the Premiership against vastly superior teams. So, if we could see this - why the hell couldn't Russ a) see this?  and b) change the approach once it had been tried and was obviously failing after 7-10 games this season. Especially, in crucial home matches against Ipswich and Leicester.

5) In recent weeks, Russ has blamed both the fans and the players for his team's results, in public. Both, unforgiveable.

He has to go to allow another manager to start to work with these players, who despite what they say about him being the best thing since sliced bread (nice hugs?) must be sick to death of losing each week ... especially, that he is is now slagging them off as well.

[derry]

Whatever happens unless he is sacked we're relegated. If we are relegated and could keep enough players to be promoted he has to be sacked at the end of the season or the cycle will be repeated.

[ExtraMan]

What on earth would be the point of RM managing us in the Championship next season? Even if (by some miracle) he were to get us promoted again, would we really want him to try to manage us in the PL again? Most of the fanbase would spend the Championship season dreading the prospect of another promotion with RM and another clusterfuck in the PL.

[Toussaint]

15 minutes ago, saintant said:

Yeah but not as a Premier League manager.

The actual context was lack of suitable English managers for the England job!

[Whitey Grandad]

19 minutes ago, Bakovnetski said:

So pretty much the same as we have been this season? No. 10th after 15 games with 20 points and a zero goal difference. Goals scored per game 1.13 vs 0.73 this. Goals conceded 1,21 vs 

With 11 wins on the board they took their foot off (probably after being robbed at Wembley) and had a poor run of form after beating Leeds but then topped off with a win over City to make it 13.

I'll take boring in retrospect for sure.

You might be happy with that but others wouldn't.  

"Southampton being just six points above 17th-placed Watford. Southampton finished only two places lower than the previous year but gathered 17 points fewer."

"...as his team failed to score in his last five home matches. They ended the campaign with a paltry 41 goals from 38 league games, with only the bottom five teams scoring fewer."

And let's not talk about the way he squandered our European campaign.

He only looks good if you compare him with the incumbent clown but so would any of the others we've had. 

[lambtiss]

3 hours ago, Toussaint said:

Eddie How on the up front podcast with Simon Jordan “Russel Martin has a great future” 

what am I missing? 

 

I think Eddie is referring to being with Lucy Pinder. Obviously nothing to do with managerual ability

[Sarnia Cherie]

3 hours ago, Toussaint said:

Eddie How on the up front podcast with Simon Jordan “Russel Martin has a great future” 

what am I missing? 

 

A future! What as? Advertising Wash & Go for floppy fringes? He'd make a bog of that too.

[warsash saint]

I have been one of Martin's biggest supporters & will always be thankful for him in giving me one of my favourite seasons last year in 50 years of supporting Saints - I admire his stubbiness BUT it is obvious he does not have the players to implement his style.  So blame Martin for not changing or Sports Direct for not giving him the players HOWEVER once you have lost the supporters there is only outcome...

NO decent manager will take charge of us in our position - only one that is desperate for a job & does not mind a relegation on their CV

Might have already been said on here (cant be bothered to read whole thread) but I would appoint Lallana until end of season & then re-assess in summer.

Edited 10 December, 2024 by warsash saint

[trousers]

10 minutes ago, warsash saint said:

I have been one of Martin's biggest supporters & will always be thankful for him in giving me one of my favourite seasons last year in 50 years of supporting Saints - I admire his stubbiness BUT it is obvious he does not have the players to implement his style.  So blame Martin for not changing or Sports Direct for not giving him the players HOWEVER once you have lost the supporters there is only outcome...

NO decent manager will take charge of us in our position - only one that is desperate for a job & does not mind a relegation on their CV

Might have already been said on here (cant be bothered to read whole thread) but I would appoint Lallana until end of season & then re-assess in summer.

Yep, myself and a few others have advocated this before. Given we're already as good as relegated, I see a caretaker manager as a pragmatic "nothing to lose" option for the remainder of the season and I'd be happy for Lallana to be given a crack of the whip.

Edited 10 December, 2024 by trousers

[david in sweden]

All this conjecture about Russell Martin's "potential " sacking really is a rather uninteresting non-event.

By now we have all realised that his job is safe - for the foreseeable future - but those people who are really 

in fear of the sack ...are the manager(s) of those sides who Saints might eventually beat later in the season.

 

I mean... what sort of manager is it whose side can't beat a team who have only won once in 14 Prem. games. 

That would be a condemnation that they would never be allowed to forget for the rest of their career(s). 

Edited 10 December, 2024 by david in sweden

[saintant]

42 minutes ago, Toussaint said:

The actual context was lack of suitable English managers for the England job!

Then bringing up Russell Martin's name emphasised their point.

[TheAlehouseBrawlers]

5 minutes ago, trousers said:

Yep, myself and a few others have advocated this before. Given we're already as good as relegated, I see a caretaker manager as a pragmatic "nothing to lose" option for the remainder of the season and I'd be happy for Lallana to be given a crack of the whip.

I agree, many of us accepted it was very likely that we’d go straight back down but another season in the Championship didn’t appear the worse prospect. But going down without a fight is unacceptable.

So relegation wouldn’t be pinned on Lallana, as long as it wasn’t more of the same. But assuming RM’s coaching team go too, who does AL surround himself with? Not ideal but it’s a short-term option and saves the club a few bob rather than bringing in experience and would, imo, give the club an immediate lift.

[Saint_clark]

1 hour ago, Greenridge said:

Would imagine it’s fairly standard practice that managers who achieve promotion automatically trigger a contract extension / review. 

I bet it isn't. 

[beatlesaint]

2 minutes ago, TheAlehouseBrawlers said:

I agree, many of us accepted it was very likely that we’d go straight back down but another season in the Championship didn’t appear the worse prospect. But going down without a fight is unacceptable.

So relegation wouldn’t be pinned on Lallana, as long as it wasn’t more of the same. But assuming RM’s coaching team go too, who does AL surround himself with? Not ideal but it’s a short-term option and saves the club a few bob rather than bringing in experience and would, imo, give the club an immediate lift.

If, and lets face it, its a huge if, but if it did happen I wouild think an old experienced hand could come in, not to do anything bar watch matches and training sessions even just as an eye and ear for Lallana to bounce ideas off and listen to. Someone like Roy Hodgson would be ideal. Given his years in the game and contacts I wouldnt think getting a coaching team together wouldnt be too difficult for him. All conjecture of course and only risen out of his name being suggested in this thread. Tbh the rest of this season can be viewed as a trial for taking over properly in the summer.

[Saint_Jonny]

1 hour ago, derry said:

Whatever happens unless he is sacked we're relegated. If we are relegated and could keep enough players to be promoted he has to be sacked at the end of the season or the cycle will be repeated.

We're relegated regardless mate. People need to get that through their heads - there is no way this team stays up regardless of who comes in. Change the manager and half the team throw a fit because they are "Martin's players". Most importantly there is no where near enough quality make up the gap we've already made for ourselves. Yeah not playing suicide football in our own box might give us more of a chance of picking up points between now and the end of the season, but there is no way this team stays up from here - zero chance. If you are pinning your hopes on changing the manager to stay up, you are only setting yourself to hate the next bloke that comes in (which with our negative IQ fanbase is guaranteed to happen anyway). 

 

[stknowle]

1 hour ago, ExtraMan said:

What on earth would be the point of RM managing us in the Championship next season? Even if (by some miracle) he were to get us promoted again, would we really want him to try to manage us in the PL again? Most of the fanbase would spend the Championship season dreading the prospect of another promotion with RM and another clusterfuck in the PL.

Indeed. The thought of him still being our manager next week fills me with dread let alone next season and the season after that. Anyone failing this badly at their job deserves to lose it, not be rewarded with the chance to give it another go.

[Dark Munster]

4 hours ago, Lighthouse said:

It was memorable but it was also one of the very few instances of a Puel team attacking with pace and purpose, and against a team who'd gone gung-ho trying to find an equaliser from a corner. We'd have lost that game quite comfortably nine times out of ten.

We beat them in the first leg as well. 

[saintant]

1 minute ago, Saint_Jonny said:

We're relegated regardless mate. People need to get that through their heads - there is no way this team stays up regardless of who comes in. Change the manager and half the team throw a fit because they are "Martin's players". Most importantly there is no where near enough quality make up the gap we've already made for ourselves. Yeah not playing suicide football in our own box might give us more of a chance of picking up points between now and the end of the season, but there is no way this team stays up from here - zero chance. If you are pinning your hopes on changing the manager to stay up, you are only setting yourself to hate the next bloke that comes in (which with our negative IQ fanbase is guaranteed to happen anyway). 

 

Football is a business. It would not be a good business decision to just allow this downward spiral to continue as more and more damage will be done. Now is the time for action to be taken by the owners who should be looking at bringing in a new manager and coaching staff to at least get us on a more stable footing and stop the bleeding so that hopefully we end the season heading in a more positive direction. In addition Martin has lost the fans which also means it's time to part company with him. 

[derry]

Personally I'm absolutely against appointing a caretaker manager. With 23 matches currently left we owe it to everybody to get in a tough manager that will give it a go and turn relegation into a battle. Throwing in the towel now is a nonsense. Giving a caretaker and the players a free ride irrespective of results is also a nonsense. Martin's stubborn, selfish promotion of his pet theory is based on one thing only, promoting himself to eventually find a big club that wants to adopt the theory. Vincent Kompany like Martin sacrificed the club to advertise his prospectus to a future elite job. 

I  don't buy it and I don't like it and feel that he should be sacked as soon as possible to give the club a chance. We have nearly six months of this season left so get somebody in with the guts to put up a fight whatever the final outcome. No surrender.

[OldNick]

4 hours ago, Lighthouse said:

It was memorable but it was also one of the very few instances of a Puel team attacking with pace and purpose, and against a team who'd gone gung-ho trying to find an equaliser from a corner. We'd have lost that game quite comfortably nine times out of ten.

What about the game at West Ham, did we not also win at Arsenal in the Cup run? Not many Saints managers can say that over the years. Ok it was the league cup but all the same a tremendous result

[gecko]

1 hour ago, ExtraMan said:

What on earth would be the point of RM managing us in the Championship next season? Even if (by some miracle) he were to get us promoted again, would we really want him to try to manage us in the PL again? Most of the fanbase would spend the Championship season dreading the prospect of another promotion with RM and another clusterfuck in the PL.

This is one of my biggest concerns, too.

On the assumption they are wanting to play the long game here and have factored in the onrushing relegation this season, I could understand why the board aren't jumping the gun. (doesn't mean I agree with it)

But 15 games in, and so far he seems to have learnt absolutely nothing at all. So it's a colossal risk to expect that him at the helm - for the rest of this car crash season, and a subsequent year with even lesser players, against lesser opposition - will get us anything other than a repeat of this season were we to get promoted again.

[East Kent Saint]

https://www.bbc.com/sport/football/articles/cqjzdv7lykyo

sounds sort of familiar !

[Bakovnetski]

1 hour ago, Whitey Grandad said:

It only matters if you think that our finishing position was a reflection on how well we played.

Of course not. But it does matter when they hand out the end of season cash and we seek to attract new players or even investors. Not to mention finishing in the bottom 3 is a disaster for how we may play in the future with a crippled first team as a result.

[Mr X]

2 hours ago, goodymatt said:

Like many I’m not sure I believe he’s going to turn it around and it feels a matter of when, not if we will part company. Damage is done.

I would partially agree with Martin on the luck side of things. VAR, injuries to key players, last min deflections - you make your own luck but we have not had the rub of the green often this season. Would a full strength team have got more points? Would we have potentially up to 10 more without VAR? 

I think I’ve landed on he’s not good enough, neither are the players and relegation seems just as likely now as it has all season as a result. Making a change now will cost us (£12m?) and not change the outcome. 

Either Martin manages to get us performing better and we can take that into the promotion push or he will have to be replaced. Players do appear to still be playing for him at the moment, which is surprising given the results to date.

They are playing for him because he's their pal and they get an easy ride! And they know along with the owners he isn't too bothered about losing so it's a win win for them 

[Miltonaggro]

Assuming Martin is in place for Spurs there is likely to be a reaction from the crowd, particularly given the stupidity of his spiky post Villa comments!  Looks like SR are happy to humiliate Martin and take the piss out of the club's fanbase to see who blinks first. 

[Mr X]

14 minutes ago, Miltonaggro said:

Assuming Martin is in place for Spurs there is likely to be a reaction from the crowd, particularly given the stupidity of his spiky post Villa comments!  Looks like SR are happy to humiliate Martin and take the piss out of the club's fanbase to see who blinks first. 

The thing is we are not like a Newcastle or one of the top six that simply wouldn't accept the situation their will be a few noises of discontent but then it will fizzle out.... Our fans will just go along with it by continuing to attend games..... Nothing says you've lost the fanbase like an empty stadium 

[Forester]

11 hours ago, Whitey Grandad said:

No, his style is not suited at this level to the players that he has available.

I would give my right arm for a boring 8th placed finish, or 43 points finishing anywhere in the table!