Russell Martin

[SaintsFan86]

Just now, Smirking_Saint said:

The amount of people that don’t understand how clauses work from a legal perspective is spectacular

As I said earlier, Saints can just approach Swansea again when we are officially a championship.l club and pay the lesser amount.

 

That being said, as it's well documented we want him, then the club should meet somewhere in the middle - Tbh... I think it has already been agreed personally. We are just waiting for the announcement. 

[SaintsFan86]

Just now, Toussaint said:

Thought he was going to Palace?

No - He's going to Nice.

[SotonianWill]

2 minutes ago, Smirking_Saint said:

The amount of people that don’t understand how clauses work from a legal perspective is spectacular

it’s almost as if it’s a football forum

[Wsaint]

Doesn't seem hard, from a fans point of view we are now a championship club, from an official league point of view we are still a premier club until a certain point (fuck knows when that would be, but I'm sure the people involved in the talks do). Annoying for us but if Swansea are holding out they obviously have grounds to do so.

[SaintsFan86]

Just now, SotonianWill said:

it’s almost as if it’s a football forum

Is there a E-law course somewhere?

That being said, Clauses really aren't difficult to get your head around.

[notnowcato]

38 minutes ago, Lighthouse said:

A club without a pot to piss in are being dick by holding out for money they're entitled to?

I wonder how they would "read" the clause if Luton came in for Martin.  It's clearly bollocks from Swansea.

36 minutes ago, Dman said:

Can you let me know when your house is up for sale, please. Easy pickings as a seller with this mentality. 

No clauses in my house sale for selling to Vanarama National League type forum posters.

11 minutes ago, CB Fry said:

I look forward to seeing your full-throated support of the club selling Kyle Walker Peters for the very first offer they recieve. After all, we shouldn't be dicks about it, should we?

Does KWP have a clause in his contract about how much we should sell to a Premier League club or a Championship or even a new relegated Premier League club

[SaintsFan86]

Just now, notnowcato said:

I wonder how they would "read" the clause if Luton came in for Martin.  It's clearly bollocks from Swansea.

No clauses in my house sale for selling to Vanarama National League type forum posters.

Does KWP have a clause in his contract about how much we should sell to a Premier League club or a Championship or even a new relegated Premier League club

Careful - You'll be accused of being arrogant. 🤣🤣

[Smirking_Saint]

5 minutes ago, SotonianWill said:

it’s almost as if it’s a football forum

Point well made 😂

[notnowcato]

1 minute ago, SaintsFan86 said:

Careful - You'll be accused of being arrogant. 🤣🤣

How would I possibly cope with that?? 🤔

[skintsaint]

4 minutes ago, SaintsFan86 said:

Is there a E-law course somewhere?

https://www.lawinsport.com/courses-sports-law-business/football-law-in-practice

https://www.lboro.ac.uk/schools/sport-exercise-health-sciences/football-finance-professionals/

Let me know how you go.

[Smirking_Saint]

3 minutes ago, notnowcato said:

 

48 minutes ago, Lighthouse said:

A club without a pot to piss in are being dick by holding out for money they're entitled to?

I wonder how they would "read" the clause if Luton came in for Martin.  It's clearly bollocks from Swansea.

 

Well Id suggest they’d do their best to try to hang out negotiations but if Luton aren’t idiots they’d pay the agreed compensation figure whilst still technically and legally a Championship club 🤷‍♀️

[Smirking_Saint]

Id be amazed and genuinely angry if Potter pitches up at Leicester 

[skintsaint]

1 minute ago, Smirking_Saint said:

Id be amazed and genuinely angry if Potter pitches up at Leicester 

& Rodgers @ Leeds.

[SotonianWill]

1 minute ago, Smirking_Saint said:

Id be amazed and genuinely angry if Potter pitches up at Leicester 

Maybe if we put it in the contract that we were still in the prem, he’d join. 

[Dman]

10 minutes ago, notnowcato said:

I wonder how they would "read" the clause if Luton came in for Martin.  It's clearly bollocks from Swansea.

No clauses in my house sale for selling to Vanarama National League type forum posters.

Does KWP have a clause in his contract about how much we should sell to a Premier League club or a Championship or even a new relegated Premier League club

The clause is in place for a reason, to cover the selling team. Why would they just disregard it? you're spouting nonsense. If it was just 'Swansea being dicks' then we'd have signed and announced him already - the fact we haven't goes to show that legally this is tricky ground. 

[Dman]

12 minutes ago, SaintsFan86 said:

Careful - You'll be accused of being arrogant. 🤣🤣

Not arrogant, just stupid. 

[Dman]

2 hours ago, notnowcato said:

Meanwhile, in the real world, Martin has been approached to manage a Championship club. 

If reports are to be believed, the initial approach / agreement was made before the Liverpool game, when there was absolutely no doubt we were (or at least pretended to be) a PL club. 

[Toussaint]

Get Woy!

[Southner]

23 minutes ago, SaintLondon said:

Leicester pushing for Potter... Would be a bit annoying if that happens as it shows that it could have been possible here. Classic. 

Wonder if Wilcox/Rasmus et al. will put feelers out to Potter as a back up to Martin? Maybe the Leicester rumours make it more of a realistic possibility since talk of the Nice job?

[saintant]

29 minutes ago, Wsaint said:

Doesn't seem hard, from a fans point of view we are now a championship club, from an official league point of view we are still a premier club until a certain point (fuck knows when that would be, but I'm sure the people involved in the talks do). Annoying for us but if Swansea are holding out they obviously have grounds to do so.

Surely we are the club holding out in that we could get him now by paying the going rate as a Premier League club. If we are prepared to wait until we are officially a Championship club to enjoy the reduced rate then that is down to us.

[Fitzhugh Fella]

19 minutes ago, Southner said:

Wonder if Wilcox/Rasmus et al. will put feelers out to Potter as a back up to Martin? Maybe the Leicester rumours make it more of a realistic possibility since talk of the Nice job?

That would suggest Ankersen and Co actually know what they are doing so don't hold your breath.

[tdmickey3]

48 minutes ago, Smirking_Saint said:

The amount of people that don’t understand how clauses work from a legal perspective is spectacular

TBF, there are loads on here who claim to understand lots of things but once you read their posts you realise fairly quickly they don't have a clue

but it is a football forum so I guess its to be expected.

However those that claim to be right about everything all the time are the ones that get on your tits 😉

[CB Fry]

50 minutes ago, notnowcato said:

Does KWP have a clause in his contract about how much we should sell to a Premier League club or a Championship or even a new relegated Premier League club

Unlikely but he definitely has a contract and as the selling club we have that to work with vs any potential suitors.

Just like Swansea have a contract with their manager.

Dry your eyes and just wait for the negotiation to complete.

[Convict Colony]

The only clause I care about is Santa Claus - I just want this to be over so we can get on with slagging him off before our 1st friendly.

[West end Saints]

35 minutes ago, Dman said:

If reports are to be believed, the initial approach / agreement was made before the Liverpool game, when there was absolutely no doubt we were (or at least pretended to be) a PL club. 

So? 

If we walk away now, when no agreement made with him or the club, but go back tomorrow we pay cheaper price. 

In a shop if you look at an item, talk to the shop then the price changes - you pay the price at time of the transaction. 

[beatlesaint]

41 minutes ago, Southner said:

Wonder if Wilcox/Rasmus et al. will put feelers out to Potter as a back up to Martin? Maybe the Leicester rumours make it more of a realistic possibility since talk of the Nice job?

I dont get this love in with Potter. Season before last Brighton fans were deeply unhappy as they couldnt hit a barn door with a banjo, they almost made Adam Armstrong look like a consistent goalscorer. Pretty sure he actually came out and had a go back at them for booing.

Potter isn't all moonlight, roses and glorious attacking football. 

[Southner]

40 minutes ago, Fitzhugh Fella said:

That would suggest Ankersen and Co actually know what they are doing so don't hold your breath.

This is true. I'm off to play the recorder, to fully empty my lungs. 

[Smirking_Saint]

1 hour ago, Southner said:

Wonder if Wilcox/Rasmus et al. will put feelers out to Potter as a back up to Martin? Maybe the Leicester rumours make it more of a realistic possibility since talk of the Nice job?

I think we already tried and were rejected

The Martin deal feels like its done anyway, we’re just waiting to sort the fee

[Dman]

32 minutes ago, West end Saints said:

So? 

If we walk away now, when no agreement made with him or the club, but go back tomorrow we pay cheaper price. 

In a shop if you look at an item, talk to the shop then the price changes - you pay the price at time of the transaction. 

In that case it would be one for the lawyers to resolve, I'd imagine.

It would open up a huge can of worms around tapping up and all that jazz, as well. 

[Dman]

1 hour ago, Wade Garrett said:

We could always walk away.

Why would we walk away over peanuts. Martin is clearly the bloke we want, he wants to come here - everything is agreed other than a minor sticking point between the 2 clubs. 

Unless someone better (in the clubs view - thinking Potter or that chap from City) suddenly become available, walking away would be a stupid idea. 

Again, Swansea know that. Our hand isn't very strong in these negotiations. 

Edited 2 June, 2023 by Dman

[Southner]

20 minutes ago, beatlesaint said:

I dont get this love in with Potter. Season before last Brighton fans were deeply unhappy as they couldnt hit a barn door with a banjo, they almost made Adam Armstrong look like a consistent goalscorer. Pretty sure he actually came out and had a go back at them for booing.

Potter isn't all moonlight, roses and glorious attacking football. 

Might do a job with our younger players?

The job he did with Brighton gives an insight into what he could achieve with us. Granted his Chelsea tenure wasn't anything to shout about, but I think he needs time to build something. 

[Weston Super Saint]

4 hours ago, Convict Colony said:

Surely this prem league v champ's league argument can be clarified by a lawyer and a football league/EPL person.

No need to worry, I can clear that up.  We are definitely NOT a Champ(ion)'s league team.  Probably never will be.

[Southner]

14 minutes ago, Smirking_Saint said:

I think we already tried and were rejected

The Martin deal feels like its done anyway, we’re just waiting to sort the fee

Yeah I think the talks of compensation implies it's all done bar the shouting. 

[Wsaint]

1 hour ago, saintant said:

Surely we are the club holding out in that we could get him now by paying the going rate as a Premier League club. If we are prepared to wait until we are officially a Championship club to enjoy the reduced rate then that is down to us.

No idea mate, just going by what people on here are moaning about 😂 Either way if that's all its riding on it'll be done eventually so I don't really care, he'll have pre season to whip the turd of a team we have in to shape and hopefully Wilcox will have some lovely transfer options lined up for when he does join. 

[Wade Garrett]

16 minutes ago, Dman said:

Why would we walk away over peanuts. Martin is clearly the bloke we want, he wants to come here - everything is agreed other than a minor sticking point between the 2 clubs. 

Unless someone better (in the clubs view - thinking Potter or that chap from City) suddenly become available, walking away would be a stupid idea. 

Again, Swansea know that. Our hand isn't very strong in these negotiations. 

The biggest strength we have is to walk away if we think Swansea are being unreasonable.

I’m not saying we should, but just because there is this clause, it isn’t legally binding.  Just something that Swansea want if Martin leaves.  

[Weston Super Saint]

23 minutes ago, Smirking_Saint said:

I think we already tried and were rejected

The Martin deal feels like its done anyway, we’re just waiting to sort the fee

Shouldn't be any need.  I imagine the invoice will have a 30 day payment term, so by the time it's due for payment we will be confirmed by every man and his dog as a championship club.

Move on now.

[Dman]

20 minutes ago, Wade Garrett said:

The biggest strength we have is to walk away if we think Swansea are being unreasonable.

I’m not saying we should, but just because there is this clause, it isn’t legally binding.  Just something that Swansea want if Martin leaves.  

Which leaves us without a manager (I know hes not yet technically our manager yet). Cutting off your nose to spite your face imo. 

I'd rather we walk away, but that's my heart speaking over my head as I don't think Martin is the right man for us. It's not the sensible thing to do though if we've highlighted him as the man to take us forward. 

[Smirking_Saint]

2 hours ago, SaintsFan86 said:

As I said earlier, Saints can just approach Swansea again when we are officially a championship.l club and pay the lesser amount.

 

That being said, as it's well documented we want him, then the club should meet somewhere in the middle - Tbh... I think it has already been agreed personally. We are just waiting for the announcement. 

Its widely reported personals have been agreed and apparantly he’s been to Staplewood already

Im sure he is in contact with the club about what he wants, the players are currently away on holiday, there really isn’t a rush if its only a few days to wait for a cheaper fee

I do get the clamour from fans to get this over the line but in reality this is all just formalities that I doubt have any significance to either club

[Turkish]

7 minutes ago, Smirking_Saint said:

Its widely reported personals have been agreed and apparantly he’s been to Staplewood already

Im sure he is in contact with the club about what he wants, the players are currently away on holiday, there really isn’t a rush if its only a few days to wait for a cheaper fee

I do get the clamour from fans to get this over the line but in reality this is all just formalities that I doubt have any significance to either club

The same fans clamouring to get it over the line, are they the same ones moaning that it was an really uninspiring appointment?

[Smirking_Saint]

11 minutes ago, Turkish said:

The same fans clamouring to get it over the line, are they the same ones moaning that it was an really uninspiring appointment?

Couldn’t write it eh

[OldNick]

I think I read/heard that the American owners are difficult. They will look to get the most possible, as we should expect. The club obviously feel confident nobody will poach him before we get this over the line. No doubt other clubs will have seen the last 2 managers we have chosen and so not gagging to pip us to our choice.

Not a good sign that we have a free run perhaps, lol

Edited 2 June, 2023 by OldNick

[revolution saint]

Can't say I'm much bothered either way and certainly not that worried about any delay.  Obviously wouldn't want it stretching out too long but this feels like the usual haggling that generally gets sorted without too much bother.

I think it was Mick McCarthy who said that generally speaking clubs tend to finish according to the quality of the playing squad and, while managers have an influence, they're not that big a deal.  Obviously there's exceptions and really bad ones will mean you do much worse and really good ones could be the difference between promotion and staying where you are.  Seemed to make a lot of sense to me. 

Edited 2 June, 2023 by revolution saint

[Kenilworthy]

24 minutes ago, revolution saint said:

Can't say I'm much bothered either way and certainly not that worried about any delay.  Obviously wouldn't want it stretching out too long but this feels like the usual haggling that generally gets sorted without too much bother.

I think it was Mick McCarthy who said that generally speaking clubs tend to finish according to the quality of the playing squad and, while managers have an influence, they're not that big a deal.  Obviously there's exceptions and really bad ones will mean you do much worse and really good ones could be the difference between promotion and staying where you are.  Seemed to make a lot of sense to me. 

It is not just the quality of either the players or manager, but if they can work together. There are plenty of examples where players have effectively gone on strike to get rid of a manager they didn't want - Leicester players did it to Ranieri, Shakespeare and Puel with big upturns in results when they got their way. I half suspect the Wolves result was down to something similar, with JWP suddenly deciding not to strike freekicks like he usually does.

[revolution saint]

19 minutes ago, Kenilworthy said:

It is not just the quality of either the players or manager, but if they can work together. There are plenty of examples where players have effectively gone on strike to get rid of a manager they didn't want - Leicester players did it to Ranieri, Shakespeare and Puel with big upturns in results when they got their way. I half suspect the Wolves result was down to something similar, with JWP suddenly deciding not to strike freekicks like he usually does.

Yeah so when I said generally I meant most of the time rather than all of the time.  Obviously there's a whole host of considerations that come into play but generally the quality of the squad will be more important than whoever happens to be the manager.

[Holmes_and_Watson]

1 hour ago, OldNick said:

The club obviously feel confident nobody will poach him before we get this over the line.

A SR strategy that has gone so well for us, like getting in a striker for example. 🙂

1 hour ago, Kenilworthy said:

It is not just the quality of either the players or manager, but if they can work together. There are plenty of examples where players have effectively gone on strike to get rid of a manager they didn't want - Leicester players did it to Ranieri, Shakespeare and Puel with big upturns in results when they got their way. I half suspect the Wolves result was down to something similar, with JWP suddenly deciding not to strike freekicks like he usually does.

Unusually, if our squad were to go on strike, I'd not be too bothered with them being replaced, with a few exceptions. If the Athletic is accurate, then there are poor standards and cliques to be sorted out. I'd not be too upset if some folk behind that were moved along, all for the right price. 🙂

2 hours ago, Turkish said:

The same fans clamouring to get it over the line, are they the same ones moaning that it was an really uninspiring appointment?

Good point. I want whoever comes in to be our best ever manager. At the same time, I am a bit underwhelmed by the level of Martin's experience. Not necessarily with him as a person. I can see why Swansea want their money. And why we would wait until whenever the end of the season is (assuming that's what the trigger to the different compensation levels is.). But I would want whoever it is to get here as soon as possible. Just to give them as much time as possible to assess things and have the best possible start. SR's sense of timing has helped to strand 3 managers already. I'd not want to see Martin having to wait and wait, if there's work he can be doing to help us and him. So yeah, keen to get it done as well as being a bit underwhelmed.  🙂

[Saint Fan CaM]

Was it Swansea where we've had a bit of previous bother?  Something to do with a hotel need near the ground not being made available for the players or something like that?  Perhaps they still hold a long held grudge and are playing hardball accordingly.

[Southner]

8 hours ago, skintsaint said:

Must be a record sized thread for a manager who hasn't even signed yet?

Only because we're Prem. You wait 'til we're officially Champ chumps. 

[trousers]

21 minutes ago, Saint Fan CaM said:

Was it Swansea where we've had a bit of previous bother?  Something to do with a hotel need near the ground not being made available for the players or something like that?

Yup

[beatlesaint]

59 minutes ago, Saint Fan CaM said:

Was it Swansea where we've had a bit of previous bother?  Something to do with a hotel need near the ground not being made available for the players or something like that?  Perhaps they still hold a long held grudge and are playing hardball accordingly.

Yeah if I remember correctly the hotel booking was mysteriously cancelled and the team had to stay in Cardiff. Then the coach was stopped on the way to the ground so Hughes took all the players off it and they walked to the ground. It backfired badly of course cos it wound the players up enough for them to win.

[Whitey Grandad]

8 hours ago, SaintsFan86 said:

Perhaps, But if Swansea wait it out until qe are officially a championship club then we are well within our right activate his championship clause.

It's why southampton should offer grace ans meet in the middle now.

Or look elsewhere.