Russell Martin

[saintant]

3 minutes ago, Farmer Saint said:

I don't agree with this, I think he actually has a very high ceiling. The issue is he also has a really fucking low floor.

This is the problem with him in a nutshell - high ambitions but he doesn't have the tools to back them up.

[Turkish]

16 minutes ago, Oldandtired said:

Can you explain to me exactly what other data actually matters. And while you’re at it get that other twat fabreze to explain  how ‘all the metrics’ are so important.

There’s only one bit of data / metric that matters to most fans. This:

 

 

Who decided 14 games was the measure of success? who decided 38 games was the measure of success? On an eternal timeline this things are pretty irrelevant. No one wins the sport of Soccerball. Sure some clubs might have short term success but at the start of next season everything is back to zero. Look at how happy everyone was with the dopamine hit they got May 25 2024, now everyones hedonic adaptation has gone back to it's natural level. 

You and other fans short termism is the reason why you dont run in Soccerball, you just dont get it. Quoting small arbitrary groups of fixtures as some proof failure is such narrow minded thinking. A dynasty takes decades to develop measured in centuries. Im glad the owners of Southampton Soccerball Club have a much more holistic approach to the sport than many of our fans.

 

[SaintLondon]

I know it's Alex Crook but he's saying that both Wolves and West Ham have approached Graham Potter. Not that he'd want to come here but the fact that our relegation rivals are making moves means that when they do get rid of Russell, we'll be shopping in bargain basement. The thing is, they will sack him at one point, our fortunes aren't going to turn around and when we're 14 points adrift with 1 win in 25 they'll then have to and it'll be a fucking waste of time. 

[Pip]

Is it still £12 million to get rid?  If this is based on wages etc surely is will go down as the season goes on?  At what point will we be able to afford to get rid?  I'd gladly sacrifice the light show and half time relay to move things on a bit.

[SambaMaverick]

10 minutes ago, Farmer Saint said:

I don't agree with this, I think he actually has a very high ceiling. The issue is he also has a really fucking low floor.

He will never manage in the Premier League again after us. There is nothing behind those eyes, just a dense cunt with a flawed belief he knows better than everyone else.

[Farmer Saint]

8 minutes ago, saintant said:

This is the problem with him in a nutshell - high ambitions but he doesn't have the tools to back them up.

I think the thing is he needs very good tools (players) to make it a success. It is not a tactic for shit players (or players below the quality of other teams).

[BarberSaint]

RM's  ceiling is  the floor.

[saintant]

8 minutes ago, Farmer Saint said:

I think the thing is he needs very good tools (players) to make it a success. It is not a tactic for shit players (or players below the quality of other teams).

I agree he needs better players but I still maintain he is not smart enough to coach the system he believes in and never will be.

[Cabrone]

12 minutes ago, Farmer Saint said:

I don't agree with this, I think he actually has a very high ceiling. The issue is he also has a really fucking low floor.

It seems to me that the big RM divide amongst fans are those that think the players are simply not good enough and that's not RMs fault VS others like myself who think that the players are capable of at least putting up a decent fight but that RM simply does not have what it takes.

The reason I have been thinking like that since last season is because we continually suffer from self inflicted mistakes that a better manager would have corrected.

For example we are constantly leaking goals with the tippy tappy football at the back, RM got away with it in the champ but not in the PL.

IMO a better manager would have quickly seen that it doesn't work, scrapped it and put in a more pragmatic system that suits these players based on no nonsense defence plus fast break outs.

Listening to RM last night he simply does not seem capable of seeing this and I don't think he has what it takes to adapt.

We all have our opinions but for me that's why he is a very limited manager.

[beatlesaint]

1 minute ago, Cabrone said:

It seems to me that the big RM divide amongst fans are those that think the players are simply not good enough and that's not RMs fault VS others like myself who think that the players are capable of at least putting up a decent fight but that RM simply does not have what it takes.

The reason I have been thinking like that since last season is because we continually suffer from self inflicted mistakes that a better manager would have corrected.

For example we are constantly leaking goals with the tippy tappy football at the back, RM got away with it in the champ but not in the PL.

IMO a better manager would have quickly seen that it doesn't work, scrapped it and put in a more pragmatic system that suits these players based on no nonsense defence plus fast break outs.

Listening to RM last night he simply does not seem capable of seeing this and I don't think he has what it takes to adapt.

We all have our opinions but for me that's why he is a very limited manager.

I wish I'd written this - nailed it sir !

[Farmer Saint]

4 minutes ago, Cabrone said:

It seems to me that the big RM divide amongst fans are those that think the players are simply not good enough and that's not RMs fault VS others like myself who think that the players are capable of at least putting up a decent fight but that RM simply does not have what it takes.

The reason I have been thinking like that since last season is because we continually suffer from self inflicted mistakes that a better manager would have corrected.

For example we are constantly leaking goals with the tippy tappy football at the back, RM got away with it in the champ but not in the PL.

IMO a better manager would have quickly seen that it doesn't work, scrapped it and put in a more pragmatic system that suits these players based on no nonsense defence plus fast break outs.

Listening to RM last night he simply does not seem capable of seeing this and I don't think he has what it takes to adapt.

We all have our opinions but for me that's why he is a very limited manager.

Can't disagree with this.

[Colinjb]

17 minutes ago, Cabrone said:

It seems to me that the big RM divide amongst fans are those that think the players are simply not good enough and that's not RMs fault VS others like myself who think that the players are capable of at least putting up a decent fight but that RM simply does not have what it takes.

The reason I have been thinking like that since last season is because we continually suffer from self inflicted mistakes that a better manager would have corrected.

For example we are constantly leaking goals with the tippy tappy football at the back, RM got away with it in the champ but not in the PL.

IMO a better manager would have quickly seen that it doesn't work, scrapped it and put in a more pragmatic system that suits these players based on no nonsense defence plus fast break outs.

Listening to RM last night he simply does not seem capable of seeing this and I don't think he has what it takes to adapt.

We all have our opinions but for me that's why he is a very limited manager.

Just further approval for a great post. Nutshell.

[Dirkdiggler]

3 hours ago, Fabrice29 said:

 

There’s not a chance the new guy gets patience after losing games on a regular basis for 4-5 months which will include mistakes from players similar to the ones made now and games where we look toothless in attack and games in which we get hammered. It’s not happening unless like Sheffield United you appoint someone with already a lot of good standing at the club. And that only happens if said person is so desperate to come back because of failings elsewhere. But anyway, you can all believe you’ll be super patient and great super fans if you like. I’ll just bring all your posts up again like I did last season when you all said we wouldn’t be promoted.  
 

Any new manager should be appointed with the aim of salvaging this season, which is possible, although would be helped by having players defend properly, pass the ball properly and a decent goal scoring option in January (which I’d rather spend any compensation money on personally).

Known issues with the players we have, the manager is setting them up for failure from the start.

A decent manager would evaluate the staff and set them up using what strengths we have. 
 

continuing to set the team up in the same way each and every games is completely suicidal and looks like ineptness.

[derry]

The club has got it's recruitment completely wrong. Part of the problem is one footed players. Last night in the first couple of minutes Aribo had a great chance that needed to be smashed in with his right foot something he couldn't do trying to bend his left foot around the ball and gave the keeper the opportunity to save his weak attempt. Him and Manning are incapable of under pressure turning left with the ball so instead of going forward take the comfortable option and pass back into our danger area. The problem isn't quite so bad with right footed players but to a lesser extent is still there with predominately one footed players. Our recruitment should have set criteria, pace, two footed, good control, ability to turn either way, etc, etc. Even if there is a deficiency it can be worked on

I have three very young grandchildren all good footballers who are being coached by the Saints. From the start I've been bollocking them for favouring their right foot. I threatened to tie a crushed coke tin on their right boot if they didn't use their left foot. Now they get it. Professionals should be under the same pressure. Manning and Aribo shouldn't have even been considered because of the one footedness. For years I've seen players with major faults that are never rectified. I don't think there is much remedial coaching at all ever,

[Kermitzasaint]

12 hours ago, Fabrice29 said:

I love how people genuinely believe managers records will translate seamlessly to a new club without any regards for the people they’ll have to work with on a daily basis. 

Anyway, I think I said after the Wolves game that I’m sure we’ll find out soon enough whether it’s all one man’s fault and I’ll happily admit I was wrong when things miraculously improve under new management. 

Yet Russell Martin has been consistently mediocre at each club he has worked at. 

[Mr X]

41 minutes ago, Farmer Saint said:

Can't disagree with this.

Can't see how anyone can disagree with it! we know our players aren't worldies but they are better than what Martin's style allows! 

Edited 5 December, 2024 by Mr X

[OldNick]

13 minutes ago, derry said:

The club has got it's recruitment completely wrong. Part of the problem is one footed players. Last night in the first couple of minutes Aribo had a great chance that needed to be smashed in with his right foot something he couldn't do trying to bend his left foot around the ball and gave the keeper the opportunity to save his weak attempt. Him and Manning are incapable of under pressure turning left with the ball so instead of going forward take the comfortable option and pass back into our danger area. The problem isn't quite so bad with right footed players but to a lesser extent is still there with predominately one footed players. Our recruitment should have set criteria, pace, two footed, good control, ability to turn either way, etc, etc. Even if there is a deficiency it can be worked on

I have three very young grandchildren all good footballers who are being coached by the Saints. From the start I've been bollocking them for favouring their right foot. I threatened to tie a crushed coke tin on their right boot if they didn't use their left foot. Now they get it. Professionals should be under the same pressure. Manning and Aribo shouldn't have even been considered because of the one footedness. For years I've seen players with major faults that are never rectified. I don't think there is much remedial coaching at all ever,

I read once George Best at first was right footed but practiced so hard with his left that became his dominant foot. I agree players should have to use bth feet. The Aribo chance actually was flagged but the ref let the game on without stopping. 

[Toussaint]

1 minute ago, Mr X said:

Can't see how anyone can disagree with it! we know our players aren't worldies but they are better than what Martin's style allows! 

Neither can I, and yet they will.

[Oldandtired]

1 hour ago, Turkish said:

Who decided 14 games was the measure of success? who decided 38 games was the measure of success? On an eternal timeline this things are pretty irrelevant. No one wins the sport of Soccerball. Sure some clubs might have short term success but at the start of next season everything is back to zero. Look at how happy everyone was with the dopamine hit they got May 25 2024, now everyones hedonic adaptation has gone back to it's natural level. 

You and other fans short termism is the reason why you dont run in Soccerball, you just dont get it. Quoting small arbitrary groups of fixtures as some proof failure is such narrow minded thinking. A dynasty takes decades to develop measured in centuries. Im glad the owners of Southampton Soccerball Club have a much more holistic approach to the sport than many of our fans.

 

What the hell are you on?

[Mr X]

7 minutes ago, Oldandtired said:

What the hell are you on?

And wth is soccerball? 😂

[Dr. Kucho]

1 hour ago, Pip said:

Is it still £12 million to get rid?  If this is based on wages etc surely is will go down as the season goes on?  At what point will we be able to afford to get rid?  I'd gladly sacrifice the light show and half time relay to move things on a bit.

We could start a crowdfunding to help the club. As long as Rasmus doesn’t get to pick the next manager. 

[derry]

Last night was horrendous for me. The team started well but Lumley was a pussy with Cucarella pushing him and letting him. Secondly what the hell were the rest of our defenders thinking allowing the goalkeeper to be blocked. Somebody needs to physically block off the opponents. The absurdity was taken a stage further with the goalkeeper attempting to pass out and becoming stranded through stupidity. This kind of play is the extreme end of passing out from the back. It is just nonsense to try and rotate the ball without the option of clearing it and has resulted in nine goals so far. 

This manager is a one trick zealot. His adjustments are more his desperation than tactics because his insistence playing out from the back is the problem and inhibiting our ability to attack. We need the ball carriers, KWP. Dibling, Fernandes etc to be given the ball quickly, break quickly and be supported but keeping a solid defence. 

Anybody who thinks this is a long term plan is living in cloud cuckoo land. If this manager is relegated and manages to win promotion again does anybody really think this stupidity is going to magically work. I think it's been cruelly exposed and publicly demonstrated as a nonsense. As long as he stays this will get worse. SR spent over £100m in the summer and according to the media still more in January. To do what?  Apart from hoping to sell them in the summer. This manager is a busted flush that is only going to relegate us again.

Edited 5 December, 2024 by derry

[Mr X]

11 minutes ago, derry said:

Last night was horrendous for me. The team started well but Lumley was a pussy with cucarella pushing him and letting him. Secondly what the hell were the rest of our defenders thinking allowing the goalkeeper to be blocked. Somebody needs to physically block off the opponents. The absurdity was taken a stage further with the goalkeeper attempting to pass out and becoming stranded through stupidity. This kind of play is the extreme end of passing out from the back. It is just nonsense to try and rotate the ball without the option of clearing it and has resulted in nine goals so far. 

This manager is a one trick zealot. His adjustments are more his desperation than tactics because his insistence playing out from the back is the problem and inhibiting our ability to attack. We need the ball carriers, KWP. Dibling, Fernandes etc to be given the ball quickly, break quickly and be supported but keeping a solid defence. 

Anybody who thinks this is a long term plan is living in cloud cuckoo land. If this manager is relegated and manages to win promotion again does anybody really think this stupidity is going to magically work. I think it's been cruelly exposed and publicly demonstrated as a nonsense. As long as he stays this will get worse. SR spent over £100m in the summer and according to the media still more in January. To do what?  Apart from hoping to sell them in the summer. This manager is a busted flush that is only going to relegate us again.

Martin should have been given a bonus and sent on his way after promotion, it was clear to everyone bar SR that his style would be suicide in the premier league  plus he had no prior experience, a recipe for disaster and that's exactly how its turned out! 

[Jack]

2 minutes ago, Mr X said:

Martin should have been given a bonus and sent on his way after promotion, it was clear to everyone bar SR that his style would be suicide in the premier league  plus he had no prior experience, a recipe for disaster and that's exactly how its turned out! 

Yep, was plain to see from last season that we’d be horrendously exposed playing like this in the Prem. Leicester gave us a great insight into how it’d play out, and we haven’t learned a thing. Ridiculous situation. 

Edited 5 December, 2024 by Jack

[Mr X]

2 minutes ago, Jack said:

Yep, was plain to see from last season that we’d be horrendously exposed playing like this in the Prem. Leicester have us a great insight into how it’d play out, and we haven’t learned a thing. Ridiculous situation. 

I honestly don't think SR are interested in the football side of things or Martin would be gone, we are just about spotlighting our few star players for the shop window and then we get the next batch in 

Edited 5 December, 2024 by Mr X

[sadoldgit]

56 minutes ago, derry said:

The club has got it's recruitment completely wrong. Part of the problem is one footed players. Last night in the first couple of minutes Aribo had a great chance that needed to be smashed in with his right foot something he couldn't do trying to bend his left foot around the ball and gave the keeper the opportunity to save his weak attempt. Him and Manning are incapable of under pressure turning left with the ball so instead of going forward take the comfortable option and pass back into our danger area. The problem isn't quite so bad with right footed players but to a lesser extent is still there with predominately one footed players. Our recruitment should have set criteria, pace, two footed, good control, ability to turn either way, etc, etc. Even if there is a deficiency it can be worked on

I have three very young grandchildren all good footballers who are being coached by the Saints. From the start I've been bollocking them for favouring their right foot. I threatened to tie a crushed coke tin on their right boot if they didn't use their left foot. Now they get it. Professionals should be under the same pressure. Manning and Aribo shouldn't have even been considered because of the one footedness. For years I've seen players with major faults that are never rectified. I don't think there is much remedial coaching at all ever,

Yet Aribo and Manning were two of our better players last night.

[Saint NL]

https://www.slotswise.com/insights/most-handsome-premier-league-managers/

 

Top of the league 🔥

[derry]

Jack Stephens has now been suspended for a total of nine games through his arrogance and stupidity. Captain!  don't make me laugh. He has no idea what Captaincy means. For goodness sake he doesn't even know the rules. After last year, pulling hair is a mandatory sending off. Apart from multiple cameras and officials what did he think it would achieve except his sending off. That worked. His ball watching and positional unawareness should disqualify him. His manager now publicly backs him, I get that, but if he continues as captain, the manager is again demonstrating his arrogant stupidity. Will he now rehabilitate ABK? Me neither 

[derry]

12 minutes ago, sadoldgit said:

Yet Aribo and Manning were two of our better players last night.

Except that at numerous other times they both consistently because of their inabilities due to one footedness with the opportunity to turn left and play forward, turned right and passed back into our penalty area. We need them to play out not backwards in those circumstances. 

Edited 5 December, 2024 by derry

[gecko]

1 hour ago, saintant said:

I agree he needs better players but I still maintain he is not smart enough to coach the system he believes in and never will be.

agreed. It's easy to say he needs better players for the system. And I fully expect that a team of better players would be doing better in this system. But I also think they'd mutiny soon enough, much like what we saw with Jones, where the better players clocked immediately that he was a total fraudster

Better players would simply paper over some of the gargantuan cracks in Martin's playbook.

 

The fact is, we don't have better players, and we still seem insistent on playing this "system" and expecting different results. (I'll caveat that with the latest few games where we have certainly been better going forward, but interspersed with the inevitable cock up at the back)

[Miltonaggro]

2 hours ago, BarberSaint said:

RM's  ceiling is  the floor.

As is his manicured beardy chin lately...

[Miltonaggro]

1 hour ago, Oldandtired said:

What the hell are you on?

Lucy Pinder

[Fabrice29]

1 hour ago, Dirkdiggler said:

Known issues with the players we have, the manager is setting them up for failure from the start.

A decent manager would evaluate the staff and set them up using what strengths we have. 
 

continuing to set the team up in the same way each and every games is completely suicidal and looks like ineptness.

Right, just want to address how I feel on this because a few people have mentioned it in my replies.

Regarding the idea the team is set up to fail and should be asked to play more pragmatically. I think that sounds wonderful on paper but I really don’t think asking defenders who can’t defend to defend more is the answer. I think asking them to pass the ball to each other instead is a better idea in practice although I will happily subscribe to the idea that the manager who keeps picking players who can’t do either probably needs to stop doing that. 

[CheshireSaint]

3 minutes ago, Fabrice29 said:

Right, just want to address how I feel on this because a few people have mentioned it in my replies.

Regarding the idea the team is set up to fail and should be asked to play more pragmatically. I think that sounds wonderful on paper but I really don’t think asking defenders who can’t defend to defend more is the answer. I think asking them to pass the ball to each other instead is a better idea in practice although I will happily subscribe to the idea that the manager who keeps picking players who can’t do either probably needs to stop doing that. 

By your own logic if defenders can't defend, how on earth does it make sense to tell them to do anything other than get rid to the midfield, who presumably can play their positions? If the defenders were better with the ball at their feet than defending, I'd suggest they should be in playing in more suitable positions (midfield or forward). Sorry Fabrice but your viewpoint is so odd.

[Sunglasses Ron]

2 minutes ago, CheshireSaint said:

By your own logic if defenders can't defend, how on earth does it make sense to tell them to do anything other than get rid to the midfield, who presumably can play their positions? If the defenders were better with the ball at their feet than defending, I'd suggest they should be in playing in more suitable positions (midfield or forward). Sorry Fabrice but your viewpoint is so odd.

What do you call a defender who can't defend?

A Southampton defender!

[Fabrice29]

4 minutes ago, CheshireSaint said:

By your own logic if defenders can't defend, how on earth does it make sense to tell them to do anything other than get rid to the midfield, who presumably can play their positions? If the defenders were better with the ball at their feet than defending, I'd suggest they should be in playing in more suitable positions (midfield or forward). Sorry Fabrice but your viewpoint is so odd.

I’ve no idea what you’re trying to say here tbh. Do you want them to give the ball to the midfield or not? I actually think giving the ball to our midfield is our best option because it’s by far our most impressive part of the team. 

[Dirkdiggler]

14 minutes ago, Fabrice29 said:

Right, just want to address how I feel on this because a few people have mentioned it in my replies.

Regarding the idea the team is set up to fail and should be asked to play more pragmatically. I think that sounds wonderful on paper but I really don’t think asking defenders who can’t defend to defend more is the answer. I think asking them to pass the ball to each other instead is a better idea in practice although I will happily subscribe to the idea that the manager who keeps picking players who can’t do either probably needs to stop doing that. 

But RM is SETTING the team up, he is getting the players to play how he want the game to be played.

This is proving to be  100% wrong as the same mistakes are happening every game.

A good manager will evaluate the squad and pick a set up/system to get the best out them.

RM is not doing this his principals are flawed for the group of players we have.

[CheshireSaint]

3 minutes ago, Fabrice29 said:

I’ve no idea what you’re trying to say here tbh. Do you want them to give the ball to the midfield or not? I actually think giving the ball to our midfield is our best option because it’s by far our most impressive part of the team. 

You said 'I think asking them to pass the ball to each other instead is a better idea'. I am countering with that being a terrible idea. Defending is their forte (sort of). Passing definitely isn't. I think I made that pretty clear. Again, if they cannot defend well (despite this supposedly being their strength), then RM needs to instruct them to pass the ball into midfielders or forwards as quickly as possible. Contrary to this, he instructs them to pass to each other, thus retaining the ball in our defensive third, to be exploited by the opposition.

[tdmickey3]

Just now, Dirkdiggler said:

But RM is SETTING the team up, he is getting the players to play how he want the game to be played.

This is proving to be  100% wrong as the same mistakes are happening every game.

A good manager will evaluate the squad and pick a set up/system to get the best out them.

RM is not doing this his principals are flawed for the group of players we have.

Mate, what you say is spot on but trying to explain it to him is like speaking with a wall and expecting a sensible response

[Dirkdiggler]

1 minute ago, tdmickey3 said:

Mate, what you say is spot on but trying to explain it to him is like speaking with a wall and expecting a sensible response

I’ve noticed 

[Fabrice29]

14 minutes ago, Dirkdiggler said:

But RM is SETTING the team up, he is getting the players to play how he want the game to be played.

This is proving to be  100% wrong as the same mistakes are happening every game.

A good manager will evaluate the squad and pick a set up/system to get the best out them.

RM is not doing this his principals are flawed for the group of players we have.

I would like to remind people that quite a lot of our squad have relegations on their CV’s and none of them have been under Martin yet. There’s not this wonderful unexplored way of playing out there for this squad. There are clear bits of quality in it, especially in midfield and maybe the GK when fit but the idea that there’s some magic way of playing that means a defence consisting of Stephens, Bednarek, KWP and some lads playing their first full season in the league would suddenly stop making mistakes, especially with its 3rd and 4th choice keepers in goal is one for the birds. Even more so without nullifying the attacking talents of our midfield. 

But I’m sure we’ll find out soon enough.

[CheshireSaint]

2 minutes ago, Fabrice29 said:

I would like to remind people that quite a lot of our squad have relegations on their CV’s and none of them have been under Martin yet. There’s not this wonderful unexplored way of playing out there for this squad. There are clear bits of quality in it, especially in midfield and maybe the GK when fit but the idea that there’s some magic way of playing that means a defence consisting of Stephens, Bednarek, KWP and some lads playing their first full season in the league would suddenly stop making mistakes, especially with its 3rd and 4th choice keepers in goal is one for the birds. Even more so without nullifying the attacking talents of our midfield. 

But I’m sure we’ll find out soon enough.

Fabrice, you seem to be using the same logic as everybody else but coming up with a polar opposite conclusion. Everything you say is sound. Therefore, the ball needs to spend the minimum of time in our defensive third. Why does that currently not happen? Because RM decrees it so. Yet you seem to defend RM. He is absolutely the reason we are making so many mistakes. Yes these players in defence, are error prone, so recognise it and stop encouraging them to keep the bloody ball. Top step in Hierarchy of controls - Eliminate.

[Sheaf Saint]

56 minutes ago, Fabrice29 said:

I really don’t think asking defenders who can’t defend to defend more is the answer. 

Defending isn't just about the ability of individual players though. You only need to have the most basic grasp of football to understand that.

It's a TEAM game, and good defending means defending as a TEAM. And it's the manager's job to coach and set up the TEAM to do that.

How do you not get this?

[Saint NL]

Looks like Potter is going to West Ham.

Maybe Moyes will fancy a crack at getting Adam Armstrong etc back into the PL.

[tdmickey3]

17 minutes ago, Fabrice29 said:

I would like to remind people that quite a lot of our squad have relegations on their CV’s and none of them have been under Martin yet. There’s not this wonderful unexplored way of playing out there for this squad. There are clear bits of quality in it, especially in midfield and maybe the GK when fit but the idea that there’s some magic way of playing that means a defence consisting of Stephens, Bednarek, KWP and some lads playing their first full season in the league would suddenly stop making mistakes, especially with its 3rd and 4th choice keepers in goal is one for the birds. Even more so without nullifying the attacking talents of our midfield. 

But I’m sure we’ll find out soon enough.

[Mr X]

If only SR had had the nous to pull the trigger on Martin a lot sooner say after ten games latest and we would have still been pretty appealing to the right manager as they would have had a chance of keeping us up now we have no chance and are all but relegated..... It's when not if! 

[Fabrice29]

18 minutes ago, Sheaf Saint said:

Defending isn't just about the ability of individual players though. You only need to have the most basic grasp of football to understand that.

It's a TEAM game, and good defending means defending as a TEAM. And it's the manager's job to coach and set up the TEAM to do that.

How do you not get this?

Okay we’ve had 4 managers in less than 2 seasons in the PL and some of same players throughout and at no point have they looked defensively solid as a TEAM (or even before that in some examples) but yeah another manager will sort it sure. 

[Toussaint]

4 minutes ago, Fabrice29 said:

Okay we’ve had 4 managers in less than 2 seasons in the PL and some of same players throughout and at no point have they looked defensively solid as a TEAM (or even before that in some examples) but yeah another manager will sort it sure. 

Yes he will "sort it for sure", simply by instructing our "limited" defenders not to try playing round  and through far technically superior forwards and midfielders from opposing teams. 

[Fabrice29]

23 minutes ago, CheshireSaint said:

Fabrice, you seem to be using the same logic as everybody else but coming up with a polar opposite conclusion. Everything you say is sound. Therefore, the ball needs to spend the minimum of time in our defensive third. Why does that currently not happen? Because RM decrees it so. Yet you seem to defend RM. He is absolutely the reason we are making so many mistakes. Yes these players in defence, are error prone, so recognise it and stop encouraging them to keep the bloody ball. Top step in Hierarchy of controls - Eliminate.

I dont think using the ball as a hot potato in defence and getting it up to the two smallest strikers in the league (probably) as quickly and as often as possible will stand us in a good stead personally that’s all. I do think any success we have will involve feeding Fernandes and Dibling in areas where they can turn their man and attack space and think we should get better at that. 

[Fabrice29]

5 minutes ago, Toussaint said:

Yes he will "sort it for sure", simply by instructing our "limited" defenders not to try playing round  and through far technically superior forwards and midfielders from opposing teams. 

I think my point is this would just create a different problem.