Russell Martin

[Farmer Saint]

2 minutes ago, notnowcato said:

I think the tipping point was Pinder.... when that bombshell dropped the recycle bins were chockfull of crusty lads mags 😂

Yeah, that's when we really started hearing the gnashing of teeth...that's gnashing, not noshing.

[Lee On Solent Saint]

26 minutes ago, Lighthouse said:

Probably the same cuckoo land as the over 31,000 fans who’ve attended every game at St Mary’s this season, despite RM being here and losing every week. If we go back to winning most weeks in the Championship, the crowds will remain pretty healthy, regardless of what happens this season.

I guess we will just have to see how that pans out, should we continue down this path of complete insanity. 

[Oldandtired]

30 minutes ago, Lighthouse said:

Probably the same cuckoo land as the over 31,000 fans who’ve attended every game at St Mary’s this season, despite RM being here and losing every week. If we go back to winning most weeks in the Championship, the crowds will remain pretty healthy, regardless of what happens this season.

Would it not be fair to say though that the majority of the healthy attendances at Saint Mary's this season are those who were suckered into buying season tickets on the premise that we were at least going to give it a go, play a competitive style of football that is not every opposing managers dream to play against under a manager who is at least pragmatic enough to realise that what  he believes in does not work?

As has been said so many times here this is not his personal vanity project. It's our club and because of the trust and belief we showed in record season ticket saleswe deserve so much more than what we're getting now. 
 

in simple terms the club does not deserve the support it's currently getting.Both board and manager display an arrogance and self belief not born out in playing style, points gained or league position.

Bitter? Certainly, this has been my club for over 65 years and they are ruining it.

 

 

[Lee On Solent Saint]

29 minutes ago, Farmer Saint said:

I'm not sure people are necessarily advocating for him to still be here next season, but it's more that with him in place next season will we be one of the favourites to go up? Yeah, of course we will, as long as sales aren't too extreme (which they shouldn't be).

Certain posters are of the opinion that Martin walks on water and can do no wrong and would quite happily clap along if he was here again next season. I'm saying that if our relegation is going to be as horrific as it appears it is going to be, I think the majority would question why he would be given another season, even if we were in the Championship.

[Gingeletiss]

I see all the Martin lovers are out in force, guess the club has the whole PR team in at work today!

[franniesTache]

2 minutes ago, Gingeletiss said:

I see all the Martin lovers are out in force, guess the club has the whole PR team in at work today!

It's just that we're enlightened don't you see, no propaganda here, we have seen the light of the future of football and understand that Russell Martin's philosophy of football is so great, so all empowering, so CORRECT, that the entire game will change to his rules.

Goals will no longer count, only passes and pass completion, points will be allocated for bravery and relegation will be the new promotion.

In the coming years The Five Pledges will not just be published for us, they will be written into global law as the new rules of the game.

We will lead the charge from the Wessex league, becoming European Powerhouses (tm @gio1saints) alongside such giants as Totton, Sholing and Colden Common.

WE CHANGE THE GAME ON!

[notnowcato]

46 minutes ago, Lee On Solent Saint said:

Certain posters are of the opinion that Martin walks on water and can do no wrong and would quite happily clap along if he was here again next season.

Who are these posters and where are their posts that suggest Martin walks on water? 
Don’t worry, it was a rhetorical question, everyone knows said posters don’t exist. 
Some posters see some balance in where we are and what is achievable, they have every right to hold that opinion. 
 

[Oldandtired]

7 minutes ago, franniesTache said:

It's just that we're enlightened don't you see, no propaganda here, we have seen the light of the future of football 

Goals will no longer count, only passes and pass completion, points will be allocated for bravery and relegation will be the new promotion.

 

That's not the future, that's our here and now.

[LGTL]

For fuck sake we’re back to people wishing we were in the Championship, saying we were promoted too early, advocating getting relegated to come back stronger?! It is total and utter horseshit. 

Just because Martin is a pathetic manager doesn’t mean the sane among us want to settle for the poxy second division. And we’ll have to thank our lucky stars for that soon enough too no doubt, when you can guarantee some of the cretins on here will take delight in telling us the Championship is the hardest it’s ever been, and how the top 6 is our realistic target.

All thanks to a really shit manager. Fantastic. 

[Farmer Saint]

1 hour ago, Lee On Solent Saint said:

Certain posters are of the opinion that Martin walks on water and can do no wrong and would quite happily clap along if he was here again next season. I'm saying that if our relegation is going to be as horrific as it appears it is going to be, I think the majority would question why he would be given another season, even if we were in the Championship.

Absolutely, but apart from Gio, who are you actually making these points to? I don't think anyone has said he is close to walking on water, in fact even Gio has been quite critical at times (but he is also quite clearly on a bit of a windup), so I'm interested to know who is part of this group.

Let me put this forward for instance:

- I think we need a new Manager this season if we want any chance of staying up (and even then he would need to be outstanding to do that).

- I don't think he should be replaced with just anyone - we saw how that worked out last year with Selles and I don't trust the board to pick another Manager.

- If we got relegated, although he would have been pretty much wholly complicit in that (along with whoever bought our Championship level players), he has proved that he can take a severely damaged and transfer ravaged team up to the PL, so we could probably do a lot worse.

I know people from the beginning have hated him, and we are now at a point where the list of hates are:

- His face

- His hair

- His beard

- The fact he's vegan

- His smugness

- His arrogance

- His ego

- The fact the he is dating an ex-glamour model

- Photos being taken of him on holiday and subsequently put on Instagram (not by him, mind)

- His clothes

- His demeanor on the touchline

- His press conferences being too honest, or not honest enough, taking blame, or giving blame to the players, blaming the ref, and not blaming the ref, him getting annoyed with press questions, or not getting annoyed with press questions

- His laughing with his players

- His hugging and congratulating of his players

- The fact his players seem to like him

- His charity work (outside of his charitable foundation)

- His charitable foundation

(have I missed anything?)

Whereas in actual fact what people should really hate is:

- His tactics

- His team selections

[CB Fry]

2 hours ago, Lighthouse said:

If we go down with Martin we will be amongst the favourites to get promoted. If you can arrange a ‘definitely guaranteed to get us promoted’ manager, that’d be wonderful too but ultimately the squad we’re likely to have left, with Martin will be one of the favourites. We might win the Championship, we might not. We don’t even know which other teams are doing up or down with us yet.

I can’t get my head around the mental gymnastics you’re trying to do with Wilder. His team was utterly abysmal for the latter 2/3 of the season but now they’re top of the league. The difference between them and Luton is nothing to do with that. After Wilder was appointed, Luton outscored Sheff U 17 points to 11 in the remainder of the season, so how does that work?

But you have already said that the period before Wilder is "irrelevant" when they replaced their manager in December '23. 

So if we replace our manager in Dec '24 then that "before" period for us becomes equally "irrelevant", right? We heal, we move on, we go forward. Why can't you let this manager go?

Edited 3 hours ago by CB Fry

[gio1saints]

One of the questions that SR are most probably analysing is this: 

Is it better* to ditch RM ( which means pay him off ) and then spend on new players/new manager January, to the limit of FFP, in an all-out bid to avoid relegation or 

Wait until end of season with RM and current players maybe let him have a forward in Jan and see where we are at?  
 

Quite frankly, IF we are going down as seems super likely what’s the point of blowing big borrowed wads -isn’t it more prudent to go down without blowing the budget - to give a bit of a kitty for the Championship recruitment and sales? 
 

My rough ready recliner puts the opportunity cost of replacing RM at north of £30m.  That’s him and his team gone, cost of recruiting a decent new manager ( and his team) plus the essential at least one or two decent new players the new manager will demand. And that expenditure and club disruption has no guarantee of avoiding the drop.

Indeed the most likely scenario is that we do NOT turn into Brighton or Brentford overnight nor manage a “ Great Escape“ nor do most of our first team squad players suddenly turn into EPL standard players even in a different say more pragmatic style of football- see D. Moyes. Aside from TD and MF imo who are predestined stars already.
That means relegation either way / but we also spent an extra £30m and turned the club upside down when we maybe didn’t need to. 

As Farmer Saint has noted, going down and returning along with astute player trading may be a more profitable operating strategy than overspending to try and finish 16th or 13th each year but being constantly broke. 
I’m not saying I like it or I agree with it- but it’s a credible strategy to make money. 

Put into that kind of context it does not matter to SR as much as we might imagine if RM takes us down - as long as we can recruit more Tyler Diblings and Mateus Fernandes who want to play this now infamous and instantly recognisable style of football. They are possibly already £50m worth of players and by end of season maybe more. THB now he’s got his cap and that goal is going that way also. Who else wants to join Saints and maybe become the next superstar? 
 

I think that if that way of thinking has any traction with SR - and I’ve an inkling it does- I’d be surprised if they gave RM the boot before year end if at all. 

* “ better = financially better - not necessarily same as better for supporters or better style of football or better hair style of next manager) 

Edited 2 hours ago by gio1saints

[tdmickey3]

27 minutes ago, Farmer Saint said:

Absolutely, but apart from Gio, who are you actually making these points to? I don't think anyone has said he is close to walking on water, in fact even Gio has been quite critical at times (but he is also quite clearly on a bit of a windup), so I'm interested to know who is part of this group.

Let me put this forward for instance:

- I think we need a new Manager this season if we want any chance of staying up (and even then he would need to be outstanding to do that).

- I don't think he should be replaced with just anyone - we saw how that worked out last year with Selles and I don't trust the board to pick another Manager.

- If we got relegated, although he would have been pretty much wholly complicit in that (along with whoever bought our Championship level players), he has proved that he can take a severely damaged and transfer ravaged team up to the PL, so we could probably do a lot worse.

I know people from the beginning have hated him, and we are now at a point where the list of hates are:

- His face

- His hair

- His beard

- The fact he's vegan

- His smugness

- His arrogance

- His ego

- The fact the he is dating an ex-glamour model

- Photos being taken of him on holiday and subsequently put on Instagram (not by him, mind)

- His clothes

- His demeanor on the touchline

- His press conferences being too honest, or not honest enough, taking blame, or giving blame to the players, blaming the ref, and not blaming the ref, him getting annoyed with press questions, or not getting annoyed with press questions

- His laughing with his players

- His hugging and congratulating of his players

- The fact his players seem to like him

- His charity work (outside of his charitable foundation)

- His charitable foundation

(have I missed anything?)

Whereas in actual fact what people should really hate is:

- His tactics

- His team selections

Lot of garbage in that 

[Saint Fan CaM]

11 minutes ago, Farmer Saint said:

Absolutely, but apart from Gio, who are you actually making these points to? I don't think anyone has said he is close to walking on water, in fact even Gio has been quite critical at times (but he is also quite clearly on a bit of a windup), so I'm interested to know who is part of this group.

Let me put this forward for instance:

- I think we need a new Manager this season if we want any chance of staying up (and even then he would need to be outstanding to do that).

- I don't think he should be replaced with just anyone - we saw how that worked out last year with Selles and I don't trust the board to pick another Manager.

- If we got relegated, although he would have been pretty much wholly complicit in that (along with whoever bought our Championship level players), he has proved that he can take a severely damaged and transfer ravaged team up to the PL, so we could probably do a lot worse.

I know people from the beginning have hated him, and we are now at a point where the list of hates are:

- His face

- His hair

- His beard

- The fact he's vegan

- His smugness

- His arrogance

- His ego

- The fact the he is dating an ex-glamour model

- Photos being taken of him on holiday and subsequently put on Instagram (not by him, mind)

- His clothes

- His demeanor on the touchline

- His press conferences being too honest, or not honest enough, taking blame, or giving blame to the players, blaming the ref, and not blaming the ref, him getting annoyed with press questions, or not getting annoyed with press questions

- His laughing with his players

- His hugging and congratulating of his players

- The fact his players seem to like him

- His charity work (outside of his charitable foundation)

- His charitable foundation

(have I missed anything?)

Whereas in actual fact what people should really hate is:

- His tactics

- His team selections

You seem to have tarred many on here with the same brush using emotive language like ‘hate’. I’m one of the most critical posters of RM on here, but I’ve never used the word hate, whether talking about him, his tactics or anything about him personally. I’m not sure others have used the term much either. And I think it’s being somewhat disingenuous to list the stuff that posters typically laugh about like him being hipster etc. as if that were the primary concern, over his tactics and team selections. If you were to count up the negative posts on here it’s clear that his managerial decisions are the top focus for most supporters and if those concerns were put to rights, the other stuff would hardly be mentioned. 

The indefensible facts cannot be disputed - his results this season are appalling. The only question up for grabs is whether another Manager could get a better tune out of the available squad. I reckon that’s entirely possible and you only have to look at Martins pre-Saints record to confirm that view. Playing his system/tactics he reached the best he could achieve out of the Swansea squad and the same is now true of better Saints squad…he’s hit his ceiling. You could argue it’s not his fault that the club can’t afford better players to push through his ceiling, but that’s not possible and highly risky. Keeping him in place is a folly that will persist until the club either gets significantly better investment, or realises it’s not working and sack him, or continues to be an ‘also ran’ club in the Championship, or Russ gets a better offer elsewhere and buggers off leaving behind a right old mess.

[Lighthouse]

21 minutes ago, CB Fry said:

But you have already said that the period before Wilder is "irrelevant" when they replaced their manager in December '23. 

So if we replace our manager in Dec '24 then that "before" period for us becomes equally "irrelevant", right? We heal, we move on, we go forward. Why can't you let this manager go?

I’m not trying to make any kind of connection between replacing a manager in December any form the following season. Sheaf claimed that we’d struggle at the start of next season if we still had the same manager who’d achieved very poor results this season. That isn’t necessarily true, Sheff U are a very good current example of why not.

[CB Fry]

9 minutes ago, Lighthouse said:

I’m not trying to make any kind of connection between replacing a manager in December any form the following season. Sheaf claimed that we’d struggle at the start of next season if we still had the same manager who’d achieved very poor results this season. That isn’t necessarily true, Sheff U are a very good current example of why not.

They're a good example of the benefits of sacking a failing Premier League manager in December, aren't they?

Luton are a good example of going down and expecting the same manager to deliver the same magic the following season. Good example of that not being true as well?

We are talking about just two clubs, so my analysis is as valid as what you have cherry picked, correct?

Edited 2 hours ago by CB Fry

[Lighthouse]

20 minutes ago, CB Fry said:

They're a good example of the benefits of sacking a failing Premier League manager in December, aren't they?

Luton are a good example of going down and expecting the same manager to deliver the same magic the following season. Good example of that not being true as well?

We are talking about just two clubs, so my analysis is as valid as what you have cherry picked, correct?

There’s no reason at all to think that sacking a manager in December is in any way relevant to the following season. That’s just nonsense that you keep bringing up for no apparent reason. I’ve no idea why you keep coming up with these weird scenarios and asking me if they’re true, as if they’re somehow my opinions, but it’s getting boring now.

[CB Fry]

24 minutes ago, Lighthouse said:

There’s no reason at all to think that sacking a manager in December is in any way relevant to the following season. That’s just nonsense that you keep bringing up for no apparent reason. I’ve no idea why you keep coming up with these weird scenarios and asking me if they’re true, as if they’re somehow my opinions, but it’s getting boring now.

But a straw poll of one club to prove your point is Ok but me using exactly the same club to make a different point isn't? 

Why is my "scenario" weird but your scenario is completely fine?

Sheaf's point is 100% supported by the Luton example, but you don't like that so are ignoring it and going with the Sheffield United example because something something reasons definitely not weird but it suits your point.

 

The fact is:

If it is not relevent to the following season then we can sack Martin now with zero fear. It's not relevant for next season, it's fine. Agree, or no?

 

Edited 1 hour ago by CB Fry

[Miltonaggro]

10 hours ago, Osvaldorama said:

How anyone can defend a manager with a worse record than Jones, Selles and fucking Steve Wigley is absolutely beyond me. 
 

He’s really managed to cast a spell on the owners and some of the fans. 
 

That's quite insulting.  Steve Wigley is essentially Pep Clough when compared to Rusty - on merit!

[Miltonaggro]

1 hour ago, gio1saints said:

One of the questions that SR are most probably analysing is this: 

Is it better* to ditch RM ( which means pay him off ) and then spend on new players/new manager January, to the limit of FFP, in an all-out bid to avoid relegation or 

Wait until end of season with RM and current players maybe let him have a forward in Jan and see where we are at?  
 

Quite frankly, IF we are going down as seems super likely what’s the point of blowing big borrowed wads -isn’t it more prudent to go down without blowing the budget - to give a bit of a kitty for the Championship recruitment and sales? 
 

My rough ready recliner puts the opportunity cost of replacing RM at north of £30m.  That’s him and his team gone, cost of recruiting a decent new manager ( and his team) plus the essential at least one or two decent new players the new manager will demand. And that expenditure and club disruption has no guarantee of avoiding the drop.

Indeed the most likely scenario is that we do NOT turn into Brighton or Brentford overnight nor manage a “ Great Escape“ nor do most of our first team squad players suddenly turn into EPL standard players even in a different say more pragmatic style of football- see D. Moyes. Aside from TD and MF imo who are predestined stars already.
That means relegation either way / but we also spent an extra £30m and turned the club upside down when we maybe didn’t need to. 

As Farmer Saint has noted, going down and returning along with astute player trading may be a more profitable operating strategy than overspending to try and finish 16th or 13th each year but being constantly broke. 
I’m not saying I like it or I agree with it- but it’s a credible strategy to make money. 

Put into that kind of context it does not matter to SR as much as we might imagine if RM takes us down - as long as we can recruit more Tyler Diblings and Mateus Fernandes who want to play this now infamous and instantly recognisable style of football. They are possibly already £50m worth of players and by end of season maybe more. THB now he’s got his cap and that goal is going that way also. Who else wants to join Saints and maybe become the next superstar? 
 

I think that if that way of thinking has any traction with SR - and I’ve an inkling it does- I’d be surprised if they gave RM the boot before year end if at all. 

* “ better = financially better - not necessarily same as better for supporters or better style of football or better hair style of next manager) 

My vote is option A. Shit or bust!  Anything else is just window dressing.

[beatlesaint]

1 hour ago, LGTL said:

For fuck sake we’re back to people wishing we were in the Championship, saying we were promoted too early, advocating getting relegated to come back stronger?! It is total and utter horseshit. 

Just because Martin is a pathetic manager doesn’t mean the sane among us want to settle for the poxy second division. And we’ll have to thank our lucky stars for that soon enough too no doubt, when you can guarantee some of the cretins on here will take delight in telling us the Championship is the hardest it’s ever been, and how the top 6 is our realistic target.

All thanks to a really shit manager. Fantastic. 

I don’t think anyone is wishing we were back in the Championship so calm down dear ffs

[Lee On Solent Saint]

1 hour ago, Farmer Saint said:

Absolutely, but apart from Gio, who are you actually making these points to? I don't think anyone has said he is close to walking on water, in fact even Gio has been quite critical at times (but he is also quite clearly on a bit of a windup), so I'm interested to know who is part of this group.

Let me put this forward for instance:

- I think we need a new Manager this season if we want any chance of staying up (and even then he would need to be outstanding to do that).

- I don't think he should be replaced with just anyone - we saw how that worked out last year with Selles and I don't trust the board to pick another Manager.

- If we got relegated, although he would have been pretty much wholly complicit in that (along with whoever bought our Championship level players), he has proved that he can take a severely damaged and transfer ravaged team up to the PL, so we could probably do a lot worse.

I know people from the beginning have hated him, and we are now at a point where the list of hates are:

- His face

- His hair

- His beard

- The fact he's vegan

- His smugness

- His arrogance

- His ego

- The fact the he is dating an ex-glamour model

- Photos being taken of him on holiday and subsequently put on Instagram (not by him, mind)

- His clothes

- His demeanor on the touchline

- His press conferences being too honest, or not honest enough, taking blame, or giving blame to the players, blaming the ref, and not blaming the ref, him getting annoyed with press questions, or not getting annoyed with press questions

- His laughing with his players

- His hugging and congratulating of his players

- The fact his players seem to like him

- His charity work (outside of his charitable foundation)

- His charitable foundation

(have I missed anything?)

Whereas in actual fact what people should really hate is:

- His tactics

- His team selections

I would suggest you've been on here long enough to identify the posters that seem to want to defend Martin and the way we play. Even though I suspect that they are on the windup. I personally don't care what Martin does outside Staplewood or St Mary's, what I do care is what he does on the training ground and out on the pitch. As you rightly say what we should dislike is the tactics, team selection and game management. These three aspects are all I'm interested in, and at present, he is failing to deliver on both results and performances. If SR are hellbent on continuning along this path of destruction, then St Marys is very likely to come across as being every bit as toxic on matchdays when Jones was here. As for next season, can you really see Martin still being here should we go down with the lowest points total in PL history? 

[Lee On Solent Saint]

2 hours ago, notnowcato said:

Who are these posters and where are their posts that suggest Martin walks on water? 
Don’t worry, it was a rhetorical question, everyone knows said posters don’t exist. 
Some posters see some balance in where we are and what is achievable, they have every right to hold that opinion. 
 

Well done on proving these posters do exist. I think that there quite a few on here who would agree. 

[notnowcato]

The following managers have all been relegated in their careers:  Wenger, Klopp, Conte, Benitez.  Benitez actually managing it twice, although his second one at Newcastle maybe forgiven due to the basket case that club was.  

Now, don't be fooled into thinking I'm comparing Russell with any of those titans (only Conte would feasibly be banging a glamour model) but what is fair to say is that just because you manage a club that is relegated doesn't mean you're a bad manager or that you won't go on to being a very successful manager given the right circumstances.

Countering this point is that obviously Redkrack took us down, I jest, Harry - love him or hate him - was a good manager despite what we all think of him.  Another manager, Dyche, won promotion with Burnley in his first full season, relegated the next before bouncing back as Champions of the Championship.  Sometimes, if circumstances allow, it's worth sticking with the manager - unfortunately only hindsight will truly tell us if that's the right option or not.

[beatlesaint]

1 minute ago, notnowcato said:

The following managers have all been relegated in their careers:  Wenger, Klopp, Conte, Benitez.  Benitez actually managing it twice, although his second one at Newcastle maybe forgiven due to the basket case that club was.  

Now, don't be fooled into thinking I'm comparing Russell with any of those titans (only Conte would feasibly be banging a glamour model) but what is fair to say is that just because you manage a club that is relegated doesn't mean you're a bad manager or that you won't go on to being a very successful manager given the right circumstances.

Absolutely right BUT a bad manager is one who oversees his players making the same errors week after week after week without addressing it or making a small change, ie stop passing it around in your own penalty area, in order to cut down on the errors/risk.

[Oldandtired]

2 minutes ago, notnowcato said:

The following managers have all been relegated in their careers:  Wenger, Klopp, Conte, Benitez.  Benitez actually managing it twice, although his second one at Newcastle maybe forgiven due to the basket case that club was.  

Now, don't be fooled into thinking I'm comparing Russell with any of those titans (only Conte would feasibly be banging a glamour model) but what is fair to say is that just because you manage a club that is relegated doesn't mean you're a bad manager or that you won't go on to being a very successful manager given the right circumstances.

Countering this point is that obviously Redkrack took us down, I jest, Harry - love him or hate him - was a good manager despite what we all think of him.  Another manager, Dyche, won promotion with Burnley in his first full season, relegated the next before bouncing back as Champions of the Championship.  Sometimes, if circumstances allow, it's worth sticking with the manager - unfortunately only hindsight will truly tell us if that's the right option or not.

Can we really afford ourselves the luxury of waiting and seeing, and then shrugging our shoulders and saying guess it was the wrong option? The current situation is death by a thousand cuts, it surely must be better to at least try something dynamic such as a change in management?

[Farmer Saint]

10 minutes ago, Lee On Solent Saint said:

I would suggest you've been on here long enough to identify the posters that seem to want to defend Martin and the way we play. Even though I suspect that they are on the windup. I personally don't care what Martin does outside Staplewood or St Mary's, what I do care is what he does on the training ground and out on the pitch. As you rightly say what we should dislike is the tactics, team selection and game management. These three aspects are all I'm interested in, and at present, he is failing to deliver on both results and performances. If SR are hellbent on continuning along this path of destruction, then St Marys is very likely to come across as being every bit as toxic on matchdays when Jones was here. As for next season, can you really see Martin still being here should we go down with the lowest points total in PL history? 

Apart from Gio, I don't really know who you're talking about, and I certainly don't think anyone thinks he does no wrong, but as you raised it, it would be useful to know if you can share please?

Edited 1 hour ago by Farmer Saint

[Lord Duckhunter]

4 minutes ago, notnowcato said:

just because you manage a club that is relegated doesn't mean you're a bad manager or that you won't go on to being a very successful manager given the right circumstances.

Continuing to play the same way, making the same mistakes and somehow thinking you are right and  everybody else is wrong does . Going down without giving it a real go, does. As does bring an arrogant cock with a pathetic win ratio. 
 

I do hate the twat as well, hated him last season and hate him this. He’s an arrogant blagger, at least Hoddle & other arrogant managers actually had something to be arrogant about. Never has arrogance been so misplaced. 

[LGTL]

26 minutes ago, notnowcato said:

The following managers have all been relegated in their careers:  Wenger, Klopp, Conte, Benitez.  Benitez actually managing it twice, although his second one at Newcastle maybe forgiven due to the basket case that club was.  

Now, don't be fooled into thinking I'm comparing Russell with any of those titans (only Conte would feasibly be banging a glamour model) but what is fair to say is that just because you manage a club that is relegated doesn't mean you're a bad manager or that you won't go on to being a very successful manager given the right circumstances.

Countering this point is that obviously Redkrack took us down, I jest, Harry - love him or hate him - was a good manager despite what we all think of him.  Another manager, Dyche, won promotion with Burnley in his first full season, relegated the next before bouncing back as Champions of the Championship.  Sometimes, if circumstances allow, it's worth sticking with the manager - unfortunately only hindsight will truly tell us if that's the right option or not.

It’s not about getting relegated. That can happen to anyone as your post proves. It’s more about getting relegated with playing the most ludicrous style of football and being so utterly pig ignorant and arrogant that you refuse to adapt to give your team the best possible chance of success. Couple this with gaslighting the fans and potentially presiding over one of the lowest points total in PL history, is it any wonder most of us have had enough?!

I hate the bloke because he’s Russell Martin first and SFC second, and it’s clouding his judgement. His arrogance over his ‘style’ couldn’t be more misplaced either, what’s he ever achieved to warrant such belief? Conceding about 70 goals wherever he goes? All this is to the detriment of my football club yet he appears to not give two fucks.

Edited 47 minutes ago by LGTL

[Maggie May]

14 minutes ago, beatlesaint said:

Absolutely right BUT a bad manager is one who oversees his players making the same errors week after week after week without addressing it or making a small change, ie stop passing it around in your own penalty area, in order to cut down on the errors/risk.

Saints have conceded eight goals from 12 errors. How does he stop Sugawara handballing it? 
 

How does he stop VAR ruling out Manning’s goal against Wolves?

You could say his philosophy is working, it’s the individual errors that are letting him down.

 

[Lee On Solent Saint]

15 minutes ago, Farmer Saint said:

Apart from Gio, I don't really know who you're talking about, and I certainly don't think anyone thinks he does no wrong, but as you raised it, it would be useful to know if you can share please?

Am not interested in naming names, so no I won't . And I know what the reaction from you will be, so don't bother yourself by typing it. 

[notnowcato]

Hate is such a strong word, especially when it's based upon a perceived opinion - not saying the opinion is wrong - but it could be and so to go balls deep in hating someone strikes me as peculiar and often seems to reveal more about the person harbouring that sentiment than about the individual it's directed toward.

 

[Toussaint]

3 minutes ago, Maggie May said:

Saints have conceded eight goals from 12 errors. How does he stop Sugawara handballing it? 
 

How does he stop VAR ruling out Manning’s goal against Wolves?

You could say his philosophy is working, it’s the individual errors that are letting him down.

 

You could say that,  if you haven’t watched us play. So, Manning’s goal against Wolves was wrongly disallowed, from there on we didn’t manage a single shot at goal. 
 

Individual errors, yes there have been a few. Tactical errors, selection errors, substitution errors, in game management errors, defensive set piece errors etc happen every game. I honestly think there is no defending the guy. 

[notnowcato]

8 minutes ago, Maggie May said:

Saints have conceded eight goals from 12 errors. How does he stop Sugawara handballing it? 
 

How does he stop VAR ruling out Manning’s goal against Wolves?

You could say his philosophy is working, it’s the individual errors that are letting him down.

 

Do one!  No space in the Martinettes for any Maggie Come Lately 😂😇

[derry]

22 hours ago, CanadaSaint said:

Warning: Lengthy vent inbound.

I can’t believe I’m typing this when I’ve long felt little sympathy for spoilt, ludicrously-overpaid athletes who live cosseted lives and don’t face the day to day challenges most of us face.

But I really sympathize with our guys because they’re like the crew of the Costa Concordia, as our version of Francesco Schettino takes them on his ego-triggered journey onto the rocks.

Or, to use another metaphor, they are the cannon-fodder that “General Lead-From-Behind” sends out to meet their inevitable fate. The last words they hear from him are “Be brave, men, be brave”.

Russell Martin says “brave” constantly but only focuses on the first word of the definition: courage in the face of danger. He arrogantly refuses to focus on the last word (the word that pretty much the entire football world keeps using), and is dismissive of what that last word means for the players.

So what does it mean for the players?

I have little doubt that, if the real truth were told, the vast majority hate playing for him. You can see the fear in their eyes, the panic as they try to find the “Russball” pass when all their football instincts are telling them to do something else. They know they are being transformed into football robots. They know that being robotic and sycophantic with the manager will get you in the team ahead of far more talented players. They know that not being sufficiently robotic will get them a one-way trip to the sidelines. They know that when they make the inevitable mistake, all eyes will be focused on them. And then their mistake will be replayed and replayed again, before making its way to YouTube for even more people to see. They know that their career trajectories are heading ever-lower with each game under Russ.

Having played the position myself, I see Martin as a “keeper killer” because he forces his keepers to play in a way that compromises their positioning, and try to make Russball ‘contributions’ that A) are well out of their comfort zone and often beyond their capability, and B) damage their ability to actually be keepers. We can criticize Bazunu and McCarthy until we go blue in the face, but when we spend 25 million on a high-quality, ultra-confident keeper and can see the fear in his eyes two games into his stint with us, something is very, very wrong.

Despite their huge pay checks it's very sad to watch, and I’m really starting to feel for them.

Here’s another thing I can’t believe I’m typing, given our disastrous results so far. There are numerous very solid elements of Russball, and I’d be sorry to lose them. It can be great to watch until it hits the point at which it turns from great to suicidal.

The problem is back to that definition of “brave”. Martin’s self-besotted arrogance only allows him to see the courage part, not the danger part. The bit where everything falls apart.

Just as there’s a “trigger” for pressing tactics to kick in, there needs to be a trigger for Russball to end. But he just won’t accept it – won’t even pick fast, wide players who are targets for quick transition from Russball to penetrating offence. He says he wants fast transition but does nothing to make it happen, and sometimes even shows exasperation if someone tries it. I doubt that he took anything from Tall Paul’s excellent play on Sunday, other than the fear that it might derail Russball and make other talented but non-robotic players think that there’s a route from the doghouse to the starting lineup. I’d love to know what was said in his little chat with Dibling on Sunday – it didn’t look like they were on the same page but young Dibling seemed to be holding his ground.

It’s becoming increasingly clear that Russ isn’t leaving, so we can only hope that he is somehow forced to face some realities. It won’t come from SR – that’s like being up shit creek with Rasmus for a paddle. The fan opinions don’t work with Russ or Rasmus because they’re the smartest guys in every room they enter.

It needs a new dressing room leader (i.e. not Jack Stephens or Ross Manning – good guys but …) to have enough gonads to step forward, on behalf of what I suspect is a large majority of the squad, and have a frank conversation with the manager. It wouldn’t be a player “revolt” but a very pointed discussion.

So who’s going to have a chat with our Francesco Schettino?
 

Bill, this is a very good synopsis of what is wrong. Knowing your intelligence and abilities especially as you played for a team that I managed and the fact we have been friends ever since I think you've nailed this problem. I am tearing my hair out because we still have a chance of getting out of this with a more orthodox manager, With this pie in the sky ego we have no chance. 

Edited 20 minutes ago by derry

[Farmer Saint]

17 minutes ago, Lee On Solent Saint said:

Am not interested in naming names, so no I won't . And I know what the reaction from you will be, so don't bother yourself by typing it. 

Lol, brilliant. Seems you're as good at backing yourself up as @CB Fry is. 

[OnceaSaintalwaysaSaint]

5 minutes ago, Toussaint said:

You could say that,  if you haven’t watched us play. So, Manning’s goal against Wolves was wrongly disallowed, from there on we didn’t manage a single shot at goal. 
 

Individual errors, yes there have been a few. Tactical errors, selection errors, substitution errors, in game management errors, defensive set piece errors etc happen every game. I honestly think there is no defending the guy. 

Surely enough of the squad can get together and say we have to change - give us a chance to play the game the way we want to play it. They are not a bunch of nine year olds all wanting to play Centre Forward or Centre Mid, they know their best position and their strengths, so if enough of them say to Russ, we need to change, he will need to listen. 

[CB Fry]

49 minutes ago, notnowcato said:

The following managers have all been relegated in their careers:  Wenger, Klopp, Conte, Benitez.  Benitez actually managing it twice, although his second one at Newcastle maybe forgiven due to the basket case that club was.  

Now, don't be fooled into thinking I'm comparing Russell with any of those titans (only Conte would feasibly be banging a glamour model) but what is fair to say is that just because you manage a club that is relegated doesn't mean you're a bad manager or that you won't go on to being a very successful manager given the right circumstances.

Countering this point is that obviously Redkrack took us down, I jest, Harry - love him or hate him - was a good manager despite what we all think of him.  Another manager, Dyche, won promotion with Burnley in his first full season, relegated the next before bouncing back as Champions of the Championship.  Sometimes, if circumstances allow, it's worth sticking with the manager - unfortunately only hindsight will truly tell us if that's the right option or not.

All this would be fine if Russell Martin wasn't fucking shit at Swansea as well.

[Gloucester Saint]

11 hours ago, Osvaldorama said:

How anyone can defend a manager with a worse record than Jones, Selles and fucking Steve Wigley is absolutely beyond me. 
 

He’s really managed to cast a spell on the owners and some of the fans. 
 

And Branfoot, even Mauricio Pellegrino based on the PL results and GD

[notnowcato]

3 minutes ago, CB Fry said:

All this would be fine if Russell Martin wasn't fucking shit at Swansea as well.

Which he clearly wasn’t. 

[Lee On Solent Saint]

7 minutes ago, Farmer Saint said:

Lol, brilliant. Seems you're as good at backing yourself up as @CB Fry is. 

There are 274 pages on this thread, am sure you could find the fanboys if you looked. I've no interest in getting into a dick swinging competion with you, so if you want the last word, be my guest.

[Hemp]

Everyday i come on here hoping there may be a snippet from someone ITK that the board are not happy with the situation,rumours of us considering other avenues etc but the silence is deafining from the club. 

So it appears they are quite content to keep losing, quite happy to keep collecting unwanted records and quite happy for us to have a very good chance of becoming the worst premiership team in history. 

Lot of talk about hate on hear. I dont hate anyone but i hate the way our club is being run and i hate the fact that we are a premiership team with a manager who has failed abysmly and seemingly has the green light to continue failing.

We have sacked managers of a far higher calibre than martin in my lifetime for a lot less than 4 points from 36. 

Why is the club not doing something to at least try and change this horror of a season 🤷

 

[Football Special]

3 minutes ago, Hemp said:

Everyday i come on here hoping there may be a snippet from someone ITK that the board are not happy with the situation,rumours of us considering other avenues etc but the silence is deafining from the club. 

So it appears they are quite content to keep losing, quite happy to keep collecting unwanted records and quite happy for us to have a very good chance of becoming the worst premiership team in history. 

Lot of talk about hate on hear. I dont hate anyone but i hate the way our club is being run and i hate the fact that we are a premiership team with a manager who has failed abysmly and seemingly has the green light to continue failing.

We have sacked managers of a far higher calibre than martin in my lifetime for a lot less than 4 points from 36. 

Why is the club not doing something to at least try and change this horror of a season 🤷

 

Last I heard was Martin had been assured he had the backing of the board, could have changed last few weeks but I really think they're going to keep sticking with him