Russell Martin

[Wade Garrett]

10 hours ago, gio1saints said:

.

Edited 16 November, 2024 by Wade Garrett

[Weston Super Saint]

12 hours ago, gio1saints said:

Classic straw man argument. 
(a) I agree it has been demoralising for supporters. 
(b) it has ( often) been fucking dreadful 

(c) but where the fuck - apart from your insinuation have I said that it’s not? 
 

This part of thread is only saying at times bit unlucky. Fuck me, you see my name and make up whatever lying shit you like as a response don’t you? 

(c) - when you claimed we are creating a 'football super power' this season?

No one is 'making up lying shit' just reading your bat shit crazy posts, pointing and laughing at you.

[gio1saints]

11 hours ago, verlaine1979 said:

Out of curiousity, how often have you seen b) fucking dreadful transform into d) an odds-defying football dynasty for the ages?

We both know the answer is zero. 
 

But I hope you understand my point, which is that with FFP and the Premier League the way it is there remains ZERO chance that we can even aspire to becoming one of the aristocratic teams of English ( and world) football. Saints fans can aspire to win promotion to the EPL and then struggle to stay in it - maybe a Cup run, that’s what we have to describe as success. And we have done that quite well over the years. 

The season we do even mildly well ( say, mid table EPL a Cup Final, we will then sell our best player(s) to the big clubs. Big clubs, who by virtue of ring fencing their monopolistic baked in position via the FFP rules solidify there position further. 
 

The results of the matches barely matter anymore as it’s a foregone conclusion. The days when you might see a Huddersfield Leeds or a Derby, a Notts Forest or a Southampton battling for the title are over , finito. 
 

So, SR own a business to make money but know that we won’t win the league or anything like that. The cover story is that with this extreme style of play under RM we may be able to make up for all the rest of the barriers to getting up there. The theory goes that if you carry on playing by the big guys rules you will just get the same results we always get - Saints one big cup in a hundred years no league winners trophies…..George Orwell paraphrased fascism as a jackboot smashing into one’s face, forever. Playing the way the others play is the same as agreeing to have that jackboot smashed in our face, forever. It means continuing Being Saintsy like we have been all the time not win anything etc.

Playing the way RM asks is 99%  going to give the same result - so my view is what’s the loss? I don’t consider relegation as a purely negative setback if that’s what happens. It can be effective negative feedback to improve and refine the system he espouses.Defeat and Losing is often the best form of learning. His way of playing “ Russball” is not even new, just a slightly more exaggerated version of what many clubs already do anyway- but at least he believes if the players master it there is a chance we can win league win cups. 
 

My view is we can always return back to mediocrity like we have been practically ALL our history - but I’d rather be outstandingly bad in the cause of being outstandingly good and stay that good than just a forever also ran mediocrity struggling from year to year.  I know many will disagree and suggest we will go down multiple leagues and the club will fold etc etc. We’ve been there too btw so I don’t have fear of playing Walsall away in Div2. I have more fear of not trying g to escape the net that we and most the other teams are trapped in. Our freedom and integrity is more important than obsequiousness to the EPL. 
That under SR and RM we have a set up still prepared to fight the system should be a matter of pride ~ not disgust and fury from supporters. 

Edited 16 November, 2024 by gio1saints

[johnnyboy]

17 minutes ago, gio1saints said:

 

Defeat and Losing is often the best form of learning. His way of playing “ Russball” 

Well that’s clearly not happening with our man is it ??!!

[coalman]

17 minutes ago, gio1saints said:

We both know the answer is zero. 
 

But I hope you understand my point, which is that with FFP and the Premier League the way it is there remains ZERO chance that we can even aspire to becoming one of the aristocratic teams of English ( and world) football. Saints fans can aspire to win promotion to the EPL and then struggle to stay in it - maybe a Cup run, that’s what we have to describe as success. And we have done that quite well over the years. 

The season we do even mildly well ( say, mid table EPL a Cup Final, we will then sell our best player(s) to the big clubs. Big clubs, who by virtue of ring fencing their monopolistic baked in position via the FFP rules solidify there position further. 
 

The results of the matches barely matter anymore as it’s a foregone conclusion. The days when you might see a Huddersfield Leeds or a Derby, a Notts Forest or a Southampton battling for the title are over , finito. 
 

So, SR own a business to make money but know that we won’t win the league or anything like that. The cover story is that with this extreme style of play under RM we may be able to make up for all the rest of the barriers to getting up there. The theory goes that if you carry on playing by the big guys rules you will just get the same results we always get - Saints one big cup in a hundred years no league winners trophies…..George Orwell paraphrased fascism as a jackboot smashing into one’s face, forever. Playing the way the others play is the same as agreeing to have that jackboot smashed in our face, forever. It means continuing Being Saintsy like we have been all the time not win anything etc.

Playing the way RM asks is 99%  going to give the same result - so my view is what’s the loss? I don’t consider relegation as a purely negative setback if that’s what happens. It can be effective negative feedback to improve and refine the system he espouses.Defeat and Losing is often the best form of learning. His way of playing “ Russball” is not even new, just a slightly more exaggerated version of what many clubs already do anyway- but at least he believes if the players master it there is a chance we can win league win cups. 
 

My view is we can always return back to mediocrity like we have been practically ALL our history - but I’d rather be outstandingly bad in the cause of being outstandingly good and stay that good than just a forever also ran mediocrity struggling from year to year.  I know many will disagree and suggest we will go down multiple leagues and the club will fold etc etc. We’ve been there too btw so I don’t have fear of playing Walsall away in Div2. I have more fear of not trying g to escape the net that we and most the other teams are trapped in. Our freedom and integrity is more important than obsequiousness to the EPL. 
That under SR and RM we have a set up still prepared to fight the system should be a matter of pride ~ not disgust and fury from supporters. 

You state that this is the only way to fight the fascism if the premier league like we're fighting some noble fight. We are not some plucky freedom fighters bucking the system. We're the problem gambler walking into the casino with their paycheque thinking it's going to be different this time.

[gio1saints]

5 minutes ago, johnnyboy said:

Well that’s clearly not happening with our man is it ??!!

Nope it’s not happening atm. The strong probability is that SR “ give up”.  And my view then is that we will revert to our average of the last fifty years plus that ive been folliwingSaints ie mediocrity.

Just now, coalman said:

You state that this is the only way to fight the fascism if the premier league like we're fighting some noble fight. We are not some plucky freedom fighters bucking the system. We're the problem gambler walking into the casino with their paycheque thinking it's going to be different this time.

I don’t say it’s the only way really. Miracles happen. But when you’ve watched the best of Southampton fc - and for me that was early mid eighties and it was still not good enough -  I do not sense playing on the battlefield of the EPL’s choosing is our best shot anymore. There has to be another way. And it will appear crazy and its advocates will also appear crazy. And it is still incredibly likely to blow up in our fa e as is currently all too apparent. But Saints fans should be proud not angry that we lead the resistance.

[Chewy]

I guess we all admire the bravery and sticking to our noble principles, but 

[CB Fry]

44 minutes ago, gio1saints said:

But Saints fans should be proud not angry that we lead the resistance.

What does this drivel even mean.

[Whitey Grandad]

1 hour ago, gio1saints said:

Playing the way RM asks is 99%  going to give the same result - so my view is what’s the loss? I don’t consider relegation as a purely negative setback if that’s what happens. It can be effective negative feedback to improve and refine the system he espouses.Defeat and Losing is often the best form of learning. His way of playing “ Russball” is not even new, just a slightly more exaggerated version of what many clubs already do anyway- but at least he believes if the players master it there is a chance we can win league win cups. 

The loss is that watching this turgid sludge is boring as shit. I’ve seen washing machines on a rinse cycle that were more exciting.

[Whitey Grandad]

52 minutes ago, gio1saints said:

Nope it’s not happening atm. The strong probability is that SR “ give up”.  And my view then is that we will revert to our average of the last fifty years plus that ive been folliwingSaints ie mediocrity.

I don’t say it’s the only way really. Miracles happen. But when you’ve watched the best of Southampton fc - and for me that was early mid eighties and it was still not good enough -  I do not sense playing on the battlefield of the EPL’s choosing is our best shot anymore. There has to be another way. And it will appear crazy and its advocates will also appear crazy. And it is still incredibly likely to blow up in our fa e as is currently all too apparent. But Saints fans should be proud not angry that we lead the resistance.

Does there?

The only way is to develop slowly and steadily within our own capabilities. what some might call Post Neo-classical Endogenous Growth.

[Whitey Grandad]

54 minutes ago, Chewy said:

I guess we all admire the bravery and sticking to our noble principles, but 

Yes, yes, but people still remember this noble stand against the modern world.

[coalman]

13 minutes ago, Whitey Grandad said:

Yes, yes, but people still remember this noble stand against the modern world.

That horrible moment when Gio thought we were Indiana Jones then realised we're the comic relief.

[gio1saints]

30 minutes ago, Whitey Grandad said:

The loss is that watching this turgid sludge is boring as shit. I’ve seen washing machines on a rinse cycle that were more exciting.

That’s fair enough Whitey, each to their own. Some find chess exceedingly boring, 5 day test cricket ditto. I’m maybe unusual in my particular appreciating of ( rare) nuances - not the obvious - in those kind of sports and I can see same in the way we play despite the current results.

 Like you, I’ve watched hundreds if not thousands of Saints matches so I can honestly say I’ve seen the good the bad and the ugly in all different ways with Saints, home and away. Perhaps as I’ve aged and I realise Father Time is catching up with me I’m hoping for something different for Saints than what’s been served the last fifty or so. Because if we do what we always done it’s likely going to end the same way. With tears for Saints fans. Maybe RM is not the answer - but this attitude to bravely stick to your principles surely is. And I respect it more than temporary results. 

[tdmickey3]

3 hours ago, gio1saints said:

We both know the answer is zero. 
 

But I hope you understand my point, which is that with FFP and the Premier League the way it is there remains ZERO chance that we can even aspire to becoming one of the aristocratic teams of English ( and world) football. Saints fans can aspire to win promotion to the EPL and then struggle to stay in it - maybe a Cup run, that’s what we have to describe as success. And we have done that quite well over the years. 

The season we do even mildly well ( say, mid table EPL a Cup Final, we will then sell our best player(s) to the big clubs. Big clubs, who by virtue of ring fencing their monopolistic baked in position via the FFP rules solidify there position further. 
 

The results of the matches barely matter anymore as it’s a foregone conclusion. The days when you might see a Huddersfield Leeds or a Derby, a Notts Forest or a Southampton battling for the title are over , finito. 
 

So, SR own a business to make money but know that we won’t win the league or anything like that. The cover story is that with this extreme style of play under RM we may be able to make up for all the rest of the barriers to getting up there. The theory goes that if you carry on playing by the big guys rules you will just get the same results we always get - Saints one big cup in a hundred years no league winners trophies…..George Orwell paraphrased fascism as a jackboot smashing into one’s face, forever. Playing the way the others play is the same as agreeing to have that jackboot smashed in our face, forever. It means continuing Being Saintsy like we have been all the time not win anything etc.

Playing the way RM asks is 99%  going to give the same result - so my view is what’s the loss? I don’t consider relegation as a purely negative setback if that’s what happens. It can be effective negative feedback to improve and refine the system he espouses.Defeat and Losing is often the best form of learning. His way of playing “ Russball” is not even new, just a slightly more exaggerated version of what many clubs already do anyway- but at least he believes if the players master it there is a chance we can win league win cups. 
 

My view is we can always return back to mediocrity like we have been practically ALL our history - but I’d rather be outstandingly bad in the cause of being outstandingly good and stay that good than just a forever also ran mediocrity struggling from year to year.  I know many will disagree and suggest we will go down multiple leagues and the club will fold etc etc. We’ve been there too btw so I don’t have fear of playing Walsall away in Div2. I have more fear of not trying g to escape the net that we and most the other teams are trapped in. Our freedom and integrity is more important than obsequiousness to the EPL. 
That under SR and RM we have a set up still prepared to fight the system should be a matter of pride ~ not disgust and fury from supporters. 

If he really believes that then he is more deluded that the majority think he is

[East Kent Saint]

1 hour ago, gio1saints said:

That’s fair enough Whitey, each to their own. Some find chess exceedingly boring, 5 day test cricket ditto. I’m maybe unusual in my particular appreciating of ( rare) nuances - not the obvious - in those kind of sports and I can see same in the way we play despite the current results.

 Like you, I’ve watched hundreds if not thousands of Saints matches so I can honestly say I’ve seen the good the bad and the ugly in all different ways with Saints, home and away. Perhaps as I’ve aged and I realise Father Time is catching up with me I’m hoping for something different for Saints than what’s been served the last fifty or so. Because if we do what we always done it’s likely going to end the same way. With tears for Saints fans. Maybe RM is not the answer - but this attitude to bravely stick to your principles surely is. And I respect it more than temporary results. 

In our day you could watch a 5 day cricket match on the BBC for just the licence fee , on sundays you could watch every Saints home match on Southern Soccer while eating your sunday roast .

Saints at St Marys has varied but since just before covid home matches we attended were more in hope than expectation , but we enjoyed the day out 🙂

[Disco Stu]

3 hours ago, Chewy said:

I guess we all admire the bravery and sticking to our noble principles, but 

Perfect summary of Russball.

[Oldandtired]

2 hours ago, gio1saints said:

 

Edited 16 November, 2024 by Oldandtired
Can’t delete that so I’ll have another go to make my earth shattering point.

[Oldandtired]

2 hours ago, gio1saints said:

but this attitude to bravely stick to your principles surely is. And I respect it more than temporary results. 

What if your principles are demonstrably wrong? In the business (it’s not sport any more) of elite football surely you have aims and targets. Those targets are usually results, not who can be top of the aimlessly keeping hold of the ball statistics or whatever RM prides himself on.

He has chosen a job and profession. His principles are not working in that job and profession. In any job I don’t think that sticking to principles which are detrimental to the organisation you work for would be tolerated.
 

Why should Southampton football club be any different? They seem to be, and I really don’t understand it.

Edited 16 November, 2024 by Oldandtired

[Holmes_and_Watson]

To be a football powerhouse, or not to be a football powerhouse, that is the question:
Whether 'tis nobler in the mind to suffer
The thick lines and incompetence of outrageous VAR,
Or to take to data analysis against a sea of defeats,
And by opposing end them: to give death to old formations, to sleep
No more; and by a sleep, to say we end
The heart-ache, and the thousand natural losses
That non possession play is heir to? 'Tis a consummation
Devoutly to be wished. To cease old tactics, to sleep,
To sleep, perchance to Dream; aye, there's the rub,
For in that sleep of change, what dreams may come.

Bill Shakesbeard, Saints Magic Sponge purveyor 1584 - 1605, upon the occasion of petitioning Lord Ankerson for patronage to develop a new style of The People's Game.

[coalman]

Before anyone asks, the hamster is holding out for the Leicester job.

 

Edited 16 November, 2024 by coalman

[Osvaldorama]

5 hours ago, gio1saints said:

We both know the answer is zero. 
 

But I hope you understand my point, which is that with FFP and the Premier League the way it is there remains ZERO chance that we can even aspire to becoming one of the aristocratic teams of English ( and world) football. Saints fans can aspire to win promotion to the EPL and then struggle to stay in it - maybe a Cup run, that’s what we have to describe as success. And we have done that quite well over the years. 

The season we do even mildly well ( say, mid table EPL a Cup Final, we will then sell our best player(s) to the big clubs. Big clubs, who by virtue of ring fencing their monopolistic baked in position via the FFP rules solidify there position further. 
 

The results of the matches barely matter anymore as it’s a foregone conclusion. The days when you might see a Huddersfield Leeds or a Derby, a Notts Forest or a Southampton battling for the title are over , finito. 
 

So, SR own a business to make money but know that we won’t win the league or anything like that. The cover story is that with this extreme style of play under RM we may be able to make up for all the rest of the barriers to getting up there. The theory goes that if you carry on playing by the big guys rules you will just get the same results we always get - Saints one big cup in a hundred years no league winners trophies…..George Orwell paraphrased fascism as a jackboot smashing into one’s face, forever. Playing the way the others play is the same as agreeing to have that jackboot smashed in our face, forever. It means continuing Being Saintsy like we have been all the time not win anything etc.

Playing the way RM asks is 99%  going to give the same result - so my view is what’s the loss? I don’t consider relegation as a purely negative setback if that’s what happens. It can be effective negative feedback to improve and refine the system he espouses.Defeat and Losing is often the best form of learning. His way of playing “ Russball” is not even new, just a slightly more exaggerated version of what many clubs already do anyway- but at least he believes if the players master it there is a chance we can win league win cups. 
 

My view is we can always return back to mediocrity like we have been practically ALL our history - but I’d rather be outstandingly bad in the cause of being outstandingly good and stay that good than just a forever also ran mediocrity struggling from year to year.  I know many will disagree and suggest we will go down multiple leagues and the club will fold etc etc. We’ve been there too btw so I don’t have fear of playing Walsall away in Div2. I have more fear of not trying g to escape the net that we and most the other teams are trapped in. Our freedom and integrity is more important than obsequiousness to the EPL. 
That under SR and RM we have a set up still prepared to fight the system should be a matter of pride ~ not disgust and fury from supporters. 

This is, and I don’t say this lightly, the most stupid forum post I have ever read. 
 

Setting up to lose every game pitifully should be a source of pride for the supporters?

Mediocrity is a distant dream under this manager. 
 

[gio1saints]

38 minutes ago, Osvaldorama said:

This is, and I don’t say this lightly, the most stupid forum post I have ever read. 
 

Setting up to lose every game pitifully should be a source of pride for the supporters?

Mediocrity is a distant dream under this manager. 
 

Dear God. Talk about deliberately twisting and misreading my post. Wow. Congratulations. 

[gio1saints]

1 hour ago, Oldandtired said:

What if your principles are demonstrably wrong? In the business (it’s not sport any more) of elite football surely you have aims and targets. Those targets are usually results, not who can be top of the aimlessly keeping hold of the ball statistics or whatever RM prides himself on.

He has chosen a job and profession. His principles are not working in that job and profession. In any job I don’t think that sticking to principles which are detrimental to the organisation you work for would be tolerated.
 

Why should Southampton football club be any different? They seem to be, and I really don’t understand it.

Understand your point and it’s what many feel so you are in a big majority.

If you really want to understand how I see it - not how many others do let’s take that for granted - then I’d like to add that I don’t find this number of defeats and this number of points from a team of this so-so calibre under a newbie EPL Manager, attempting something different, a surprise.
 

My idea of how long it might take to reverse out of the tailspin we were in season before last and start to break into that football aristocracy ceiling is counted in years not weeks. It is not linear either - that’s the ideal but it’s also totally unrealistic. The likeliest trajectory may be more of a roller coaster. 
 

So- I’m not a proponent of “ go out and lose on purpose to fulfil some daft principles” I’m simply supportive of our club which i see trying to do something bigger than just survive in the EPL. It’s not working at present but I admire the sentiment and wish them every success.

Sainrs( SR) can employ a standard manager play a standard way and get standard results ~ pretty easily. But we will always be little Southampton as a consequence (imo based on our history) and firmly in our place scrapping for crumbs like we’ve done for over a century. We won’t win the league we might get a cup run and we will eventually be back to battling relegation year on year with the bottom ten clubs in the league. Thats not authentic living or competing ~ thats servitude dressed up as football. Fed up of that. Fed up of the built in unfairness of the Leagues system that favours the bigger clubs. 

Edited 16 November, 2024 by gio1saints

[Gingeletiss]

2 hours ago, tdmickey3 said:

If he really believes that then he is more deluded that the majority think he is

I suggest, he doesn’t believe it. He has a certain style to his monologues, dare I say Scottish, maybe even Glaswegian!

[Holmes_and_Watson]

1 hour ago, Osvaldorama said:

This is, and I don’t say this lightly, the most stupid forum post I have ever read. 
 

Setting up to lose every game pitifully should be a source of pride for the supporters?

Mediocrity is a distant dream under this manager. 
 

#daretodream 🙂

[coalman]

17 minutes ago, gio1saints said:

Understand your point and it’s what many feel so you are in a big majority.

If you really want to understand how I see it - not how many others do let’s take that for granted - then I’d like to add that I don’t find this number of defeats and this number of points from a team of this so-so calibre under a newbie EPL Manager, attempting something different, a surprise.
 

My idea of how long it might take to reverse out of the tailspin we were in season before last and start to break into that football aristocracy ceiling is counted in years not weeks. It is not linear either - that’s the ideal but it’s also totally unrealistic. The likeliest trajectory may be more of a roller coaster. 
 

So- I’m not a proponent of “ go out and lose on purpose to fulfil some daft principles” I’m simply supportive of our club which i see trying to do something bigger than just survive in the EPL. It’s not working at present but I admire the sentiment and wish them every success.

Sainrs( SR) can employ a standard manager play a standard way and get standard results ~ pretty easily. But we will always be little Southampton as a consequence (imo based on our history) and firmly in our place scrapping for crumbs like we’ve done for over a century. We won’t win the league we might get a cup run and we will eventually be back to battling relegation year on year with the bottom ten clubs in the league. Thats not authentic living or competing ~ thats servitude dressed up as football. Fed up of that. Fed up of the built in unfairness of the Leagues system that favours the bigger clubs. 

 

[Weston Super Saint]

22 minutes ago, gio1saints said:

 I’m simply supportive of our club which i see trying to do something bigger than just survive in the EPL. 

Once you accept weird Gio is a wind up, sentences like this one become hilarious!

Top trolling.

[Holmes_and_Watson]

6 hours ago, gio1saints said:

I have more fear of not trying g to escape the net that we and most the other teams are trapped in. Our freedom and integrity is more important than obsequiousness to the EPL. 

That under SR and RM we have a set up still prepared to fight the system should be a matter of pride ~ not disgust and fury from supporters. 

 

5 hours ago, gio1saints said:

But Saints fans should be proud not angry that we lead the resistance.

 

29 minutes ago, gio1saints said:

So- I’m not a proponent of “ go out and lose on purpose to fulfil some daft principles” I’m simply supportive of our club which i see trying to do something bigger than just survive in the EPL. It’s not working at present but I admire the sentiment and wish them every success.

We won’t win the league we might get a cup run and we will eventually be back to battling relegation year on year with the bottom ten clubs in the league. Thats not authentic living or competing ~ thats servitude dressed up as football. Fed up of that. Fed up of the built in unfairness of the Leagues system that favours the bigger clubs. 

Some of my favourite bits from today.

While not ignoring results or outcomes, thoughts being offered on the purpose of what we do and why we do it.

Stirring and thought provoking stuff.

[gio1saints]

14 minutes ago, Weston Super Saint said:

Once you accept weird Gio is a wind up, sentences like this one become hilarious!

Top trolling.

You really have a thing about me don’t you. Please put me on ignore if that what you really think. If it’s not what you really think who is the troll? 

[Weston Super Saint]

34 minutes ago, gio1saints said:

You really have a thing about me don’t you. Please put me on ignore if that what you really think. If it’s not what you really think who is the troll? 

Put you on ignore? How preposterous!

If I did that then I'd miss gems like Saints aiming to become a "football super power".

#obvioustrollisobvious

[FarehamSaintJames]

Might be doing an Andrew on X and being controversial but we haven’t played as badly as some suggest.

Games have been screwed up tactically over late subs, wrong subs or more often in our case monumental fuck ups and mistakes when dithering around with the ball, this getting caught out.

You could argue fundamentally cut out those mistakes and it adds a few more points on the board and suddenly it looks a lot kinder.

I think Russ’ problem is naivety, you can’t sit back and rest on what works at Championship level, you have to be smart and counter teams when it matters.
It does frustrate me that we’re currently playing five at the back when we desperately need to score goals.

I agree with Gio (to a point) that our overall gameplay at times has been satisfactory - but no more than that, and had a bit of luck gone our way we would have picked up more points.

But it’s a results business, and every time you don’t gain anything and your rivals do is a deeper hole being dug.

We should have been braver (but Russ has ruined that phrase) against the teams around us. Brentford shipping goals for fun, five at the back against direct league rivals is not going to win you many games.

[Tommy Mulgrew]

We have been promoted to the first division or premier league before.  Each time we stayed in that league a long time before being relegated.  During that time we sometimes played well and sometimes played badly; sometimes we were exciting to watch and sometimes excruciating.

Now we are tying something different: bravely trying a revolutionary way of playing with the intention of overturning the EPL world order to become one of the big boys and thus deserving of gio’s support and admiration.  The trouble is that our way of playing is not revolutionary at all: plenty of other teams do it, and much better than us, too.  And those teams play with a pace and intensity that we can only dream of; and they vary their style to suit the opposition and the occasion.  We do not do that; we play an exaggerated version of possession football, which reduces our ability to score and thus win games or draw them.  Without wins or draws, we do not accumulate enough points to avoid certain relegation.

How can us non-believers get excited by ploughing a lonely but brave furrow if all it does is give us a worse chance of survival in the premier league than we would have if we were to play to the strengths of our squad of players and try to win games and hence stay in the EPL, where most of want to play for as many seasons as possible?

Absolutely barking mad.

[Doctoroncall]

So… trying to do something bigger

results don’t matter… follow the process

I really cannot see anything useful or innovative coming out of this experiment. Perhaps it’s a puzzle?  is it that we are playing the same way for the first game we play against all nine other teams so the game data is collected and analysed how we can beat them in second match with them?. 
 

it all seems Emperors New Clothes and nothing innovative.

 

[Oldandtired]

31 minutes ago, Tommy Mulgrew said:

 

 

Absolutely barking mad.

Three words which absolutely sum up our manager, our board, our whole philosophy this season and the thousands of twats like me suckered into buying a season ticket.

[aintforever]

The worst thing about the way we play is that it doesn’t even change when we are 1 or 2 up. A style that is risky at 0-0 is just suicidal when the opponent is chasing the game. I said to a mate before the Everton game, the only way we will win is if we go ahead really late on and that proved to be the case, even then we needed a huge slice of luck to see the game out.

I get the passing out the back to suck the opposition in thing but without mixing it up a bit it loses all effect. When we are leading the opposition commit more and more forward and our players naturally get more and more defensive so it just leads to passes to nowhere and invites pressure and mistakes. The frustrating thing is we do play some good football in patches but are undone by our own dogmatic approach.

Edited 16 November, 2024 by aintforever

[derry]

1 hour ago, aintforever said:

The worst thing about the way we play is that it doesn’t even change when we are 1 or 2 up. A style that is risky at 0-0 is just suicidal when the opponent is chasing the game. I said to a mate before the Everton game, the only way we will win is if we go ahead really late on and that proved to be the case, even then we needed a huge slice of luck to see the game out.

I get the passing out the back to suck the opposition in thing but without mixing it up a bit it loses all effect. When we are leading the opposition commit more and more forward and our players naturally get more and more defensive so it just leads to passes to nowhere and invites pressure and mistakes. The frustrating thing is we do play some good football in patches but are undone by our own dogmatic approach.

The trouble is we aren't sucking the opposition in to create the space behind to break out. What the opponents are doing is massing behind the ball and due to the slowness of our recycling just retreating into a massed barrier we have neither the space or ability to breach.  7 goals for and 21 against says it all. It's just a con wasting two seasons and hopefully not many more.

[SaintsBarry74]

We've dropped down to 4th place in possession, the good news is that big Jan has the most touches in the Premier League.

[obelisk]

29 minutes ago, SaintsBarry74 said:

We've dropped down to 4th place in possession, the good news is that big Jan has the most touches in the Premier League.

Not for the next month or so. Jan has a knee injury.

[Holmes_and_Watson]

We can only hope that the loss of Ramsdale and Bedders isn't going to disrupt our defensive possession too much. At least Stephens has been getting plenty of minutes, and the club did well in extending Alex's contract, meaning we've an England international to play in goal.

Edited 16 November, 2024 by Holmes_and_Watson

[disconnect]

18 minutes ago, obelisk said:

Not for the next month or so. Jan has a knee injury.

Shoehorn will be delighted! So, we’re now going into the next matches without Ramsdale or Bednarek?! Just when you thought it couldn’t get any worse. Hopefully it means a complete change of system 

[FarehamSaintJames]

Four at the back please. He needs to have another attacking player in the team now. 
 

You can’t play defensively and hope that you can draw your way to safety.

[Miltonaggro]

6 hours ago, FarehamSaintJames said:

Four at the back please. He needs to have another attacking player in the team now. 
 

You can’t play defensively and hope that you can draw your way to safety.

You’re right, but won’t happen with Russell’s doppelgänger, the Home Bargains Beckenbauer, available. 

[Charlie Wayman]

13 hours ago, Tommy Mulgrew said:

We have been promoted to the first division or premier league before.  Each time we stayed in that league a long time before being relegated.  During that time we sometimes played well and sometimes played badly; sometimes we were exciting to watch and sometimes excruciating.

Now we are tying something different: bravely trying a revolutionary way of playing with the intention of overturning the EPL world order to become one of the big boys and thus deserving of gio’s support and admiration.  The trouble is that our way of playing is not revolutionary at all: plenty of other teams do it, and much better than us, too.  And those teams play with a pace and intensity that we can only dream of; and they vary their style to suit the opposition and the occasion.  We do not do that; we play an exaggerated version of possession football, which reduces our ability to score and thus win games or draw them.  Without wins or draws, we do not accumulate enough points to avoid certain relegation.

How can us non-believers get excited by ploughing a lonely but brave furrow if all it does is give us a worse chance of survival in the premier league than we would have if we were to play to the strengths of our squad of players and try to win games and hence stay in the EPL, where most of want to play for as many seasons as possible?

Absolutely barking mad.

Fresh air. Thanks for opening the window.

[pimpin4rizeal]

Martin still being here makes zero sense at all. This clown has lost nine out of eleven games, we are slow in attack and shit in defense due to his tactics . Even the Everton win we got super lucky. I’m struggling to see any reason at all that the board think he will turn it around. Surely this isn’t about saving a poxy 12 million when the  board like to buy about 25 players each window ? Just can’t get my head around it 

[saintant]

Martin should at least be congratulated for managing to con one of the biggest con merchants in football - I give you Rasmus Ankersen. If anyone seriously thinks Russ has a clue what he's trying to do let alone the brains and talent to do it they are deluded. He hides behind this pretence of some alternative possession based football because he knows he is a very limited coach and this crazy mantra is somehow giving him a little talkability and a bit of kudos with those who swallow it. The man is a snake oil salesman but he's proving to be quite a good one judging by the fact that he's still here after the set of results and performances he's presided over so far this season.

[Whitey Grandad]

1 minute ago, saintant said:

Martin should at least be congratulated for managing to con one of the biggest con merchants in football - I give you Rasmus Ankersen. If anyone seriously thinks Russ has a clue what he's trying to do let alone the brains and talent to do it they are deluded. He hides behind this pretence of some alternative possession based football because he knows he is a very limited coach and this crazy mantra is somehow giving him a little talkability and a bit of kudos with those who swallow it. The man is a snake oil salesman but he's proving to be quite a good one judging by the fact that he's still here after the set of results and performances he's presided over so far this season.

Would you buy a used car from him?

Either of them?

[saintant]

Just now, Whitey Grandad said:

Would you buy a used car from him?

Either of them?

Not without a fully comprehensive report from the best engineer the AA can put forward and, even then, I'd demand a 10 year warranty covering every part, whistle and bell including normal wear and tear. 

[Holmes_and_Watson]

32 minutes ago, Whitey Grandad said:

Would you buy a used car from him?

Either of them?

In order to give your used car prolonged success, Rasmus will have broken it. So, you'd want details on that for a start. Also check it's not a clown car, or a 2D picture of a car, if you're buying online.

[Toussaint]

51 minutes ago, saintant said:

Not without a fully comprehensive report from the best engineer the AA can put forward and, even then, I'd demand a 10 year warranty covering every part, whistle and bell including normal wear and tear. 

Your looking at it all wrong, your judging a car buy it’s performance, reliability, cost effectiveness, safety, none of those things matter. You need to break free from that mental prison. 

[FarehamSaintJames]

Realistically who are you going to remake Russell Martin with?

Realistically?

It’s a short list.