Russell Martin

[AlexLaw76]

Just now, Farmer Saint said:

But they already have players, they have different baselines.

LOL...we still spent loads. 6th highest..I doubt that was to finish bottom on 15 points

[S-Clarke]

14 minutes ago, Farmer Saint said:

This is the drum I was banging all last season - finances outlined that we wouldn't invest in enough high value, high wage players if we got promoted due to PSR, which has left us very weak for this season. The fact that Martin has shit the bed tactically could end up being irrelevant due to the fact we seem to have too many Championship Players in the squad.

I don't truly buy that, we have spent a fortune in SR's 3 PL transfer windows.

£100m Summer 1

60m January 1

£100m Summer 2

In their 3 PL attempts they've spent £260m, the fact we haven't been able to build a stable PL team and are left with loads of Championship players is down to the awful decision making and poor use of that money.

Edited November 13 by S-Clarke

[Farmer Saint]

2 minutes ago, AlexLaw76 said:

LOL...we still spent loads. 6th highest..I doubt that was to finish bottom on 15 points

I'm sure it wasn't. Not sure where you're getting the opinion that I said it was? I think they expected a brave fight against relegation, but ultimately relegation.

[AlexLaw76]

1 minute ago, Farmer Saint said:

I'm sure it wasn't. Not sure where you're getting the opinion that I said it was? I think they expected a brave fight against relegation, but ultimately relegation.

it is you re-trotting out a belief we have been disadvantaged due to PSR. The amount we have spent on transfers and wages suggest otherwise.

[trousers]

4 hours ago, Farmer Saint said:

would we not be better to wait until the beginning of next season (June PSR EOY) and sacking him then?

Or put him on gardening leave until then, get in a new manager now, and then sack Martin in June (by which time he'll have a queue of suitors desperate to sign him up... ). Best of both worlds, potentially...?

[Billy the Kidd]

4 hours ago, Farmer Saint said:

TBF they were proactive in 2022-2023 - we had 3 Managers - and that didn't work either.

So with the position we're in, do we chuck £12m on sacking (which counts against this year in PSR - no amortisation over contract length) and then a fuck ton at employing someone to the end of the season when it is very unlikely that we'll stay up (3% chance according to Opta based on points, fixtures and players - I don't believe they take Manager into account). This could massively hinder us next season so would we not be better to wait until the beginning of next season (June PSR EOY) and sacking him then?

 

Not sure that is correct. As in, Martin and the staff wouldnt get 100% of their payout in a lump sum, they would surely get in monthly until the end of the contract or until they got another job.

Whilst I strongly disagree, I'm not sure we are sacking him anytime soon.

I for one wont watch another game while he is here, in the ground or on TV.

[Football Special]

2 hours ago, Billy the Kidd said:

Not sure that is correct. As in, Martin and the staff wouldnt get 100% of their payout in a lump sum, they would surely get in monthly until the end of the contract or until they got another job.

Whilst I strongly disagree, I'm not sure we are sacking him anytime soon.

I for one wont watch another game while he is here, in the ground or on TV.

Correct, payments continue monthly unless an agreement is reached to pay off X amount on the basis the manager agrees to early termination of contract. 

[Zorba]

2 hours ago, Billy the Kidd said:

.I for one wont watch another game while he is here, in the ground or on TV.

I keep telling myself this.. but it never happens. The football has generally been shit since mid way through Ralph’s tenure when he was expected to play with a reserve team and no striker. Things have steadily declined since, culminating in RMs farcical fantasy football ..but I still haven’t missed a game yet. Gives me something to moan about, I suppose.

 

[Football Special]

2 hours ago, S-Clarke said:

I don't truly buy that, we have spent a fortune in SR's 3 PL transfer windows.

£100m Summer 1

60m January 1

£100m Summer 2

In their 3 PL attempts they've spent £260m, the fact we haven't been able to build a stable PL team and are left with loads of Championship players is down to the awful decision making and poor use of that money.

Does all that money spent include the millions paid to Luton to buy Nathan Jones out of his contract and then also kept paying him after sacking? 

Eye watering wastage , the January 2023 transfer window might as well have just driven around Southampton throwing cash out of the window , shocking really Onuacho, Kamaldeen, Orsic , £50 million pounds , scouting and player recruitment department should be put in the stocks outside St Mary's 

[Weston Super Saint]

6 hours ago, Farmer Saint said:

TBF they were proactive in 2022-2023 - we had 3 Managers - and that didn't work either.

So with the position we're in, do we chuck £12m on sacking (which counts against this year in PSR - no amortisation over contract length)

 

9 minutes ago, Football Special said:

Correct, payments continue monthly unless an agreement is reached to pay off X amount on the basis the manager agrees to early termination of contract. 

Does that mean that Farmer Giles has made up a load of old bollocks about the clubs finances. Again?

He wouldn't do that twice would he?

[Gloucester Saint]

9 minutes ago, Football Special said:

Does all that money spent include the millions paid to Luton to buy Nathan Jones out of his contract and then also kept paying him after sacking? 

Eye watering wastage , the January 2023 transfer window might as well have just driven around Southampton throwing cash out of the window , shocking really Onuacho, Kamaldeen, Orsic , £50 million pounds , scouting and player recruitment department should be put in the stocks outside St Mary's 

I’ve just found Rasmus’s favourite band https://news.stv.tv/highlands-islands/why-did-the-klf-burn-a-million-pounds-on-a-scottish-island#:~:text=“It seemed like a failure”&text=“Cauty and Drummond tend to,the money is a purgative.”

[ErwinK1961]

2 hours ago, AlexLaw76 said:

it is you re-trotting out a belief we have been disadvantaged due to PSR. The amount we have spent on transfers and wages suggest otherwise.

The (valid) point he’s making is we have been limited on what we can spend on our PSR allowance. We had a net spend of c £63m. £35m was spent on keeping two players from the previous year, essentially to stand still. I’m sure the club would have tried to spend a lot more than that if they could. £63m investment into the team (in my opinion) was never going to be enough to keep us up. 

Ipswich by comparison have a net spend of £104m. They’re probably still going to go down.

Forest spent £160m to scrape staying up (and got points deduction in the process).

Whether spending more under SR leadership would have made a difference, probably not based on their track record of transfers. But we have been limited on what we can spend, that’s a fact.

[benali-shorts]

5 hours ago, Farmer Saint said:

We won't be in a similar financial state, that's not true, we'll be in a better position as wages are far lower this season, and will be next season due to that.

But I would say the above sales would be fine, the only one I have in there that would make any actual difference is THB - I don't think we'd sell Archer,  he was purchased with an eye on the Championship anyway IMO.

We won't need to raise £160m like last time.

I suppose it depends how much we spend / waste in January. If it’s £50m like last time, we’d have to recoup that too. 

[coalman]

13 minutes ago, benali-shorts said:

I suppose it depends how much we spend / waste in January. If it’s £50m like last time, we’d have to recoup that too. 

We can get another 3 attacking midfielders to play out of position for that.

[FarehamSaintJames]

It isn’t difficult to scout players if you watch the right kind of football.

Having watched football since the age of ten (now 31) I’m pretty confident that I could pick out a player that is somewhat promising.

You can tell the flashes in the pan apart from genuine talent, belief, urgency, determination etc.

The amount of players my old man and I have watched over the years just by going to games that have gone on to better things is staggering.

Sport Republics model is based on a game of Football Manager. Have any of their scouting department been to a football match ever? Or do they just watch numbers flicker on a screen?

[coalman]

1 minute ago, FarehamSaintJames said:

It isn’t difficult to scout players if you watch the right kind of football.

Having watched football since the age of ten (now 31) I’m pretty confident that I could pick out a player that is somewhat promising.

You can tell the flashes in the pan apart from genuine talent, belief, urgency, determination etc.

The amount of players my old man and I have watched over the years just by going to games that have gone on to better things is staggering.

Sport Republics model is based on a game of Football Manager. Have any of their scouting department been to a football match ever? Or do they just watch numbers flicker on a screen?

You're assuming they're not just using the player stats from Football Manager...

[FarehamSaintJames]

1 minute ago, coalman said:

You're assuming they're not just using the player stats from Football Manager...

Oh I 100% believe they use that. Probably scouting Carlos Fierro as we speak.

[Farmer Saint]

3 hours ago, Football Special said:

Correct, payments continue monthly unless an agreement is reached to pay off X amount on the basis the manager agrees to early termination of contract. 

It completely depends on the original contract, the amount left unpaid, the amount of time left on the contract and what's negotiated on contract termination. It's why you see some contracts immediately terminated and the manager walks into another job, or situations like Graham Potter where he wouldn't receive his full pay-off unless he didn't take a monthly pay-off (which is rare).

 

Edited November 13 by Farmer Saint

[Farmer Saint]

31 minutes ago, benali-shorts said:

I suppose it depends how much we spend / waste in January. If it’s £50m like last time, we’d have to recoup that too. 

True story - I'd imagine if we were to invest it would be on good Championship players to help us next season in our next "yo-yo" season, or young cheap but high upside players for the sale part of our strategy - if PSR allows it of course.

Edited November 13 by Farmer Saint

[benali-shorts]

1 hour ago, Farmer Saint said:

True story - I'd imagine if we were to invest it would be on good Championship players to help us next season in our next "yo-yo" season, or young cheap but high upside players for the sale part of our strategy - if PSR allows it of course.

That would be sensible, which in itself would be a refreshing change of transfer strategy by SR. 

[Football Special]

1 hour ago, Farmer Saint said:

True story - I'd imagine if we were to invest it would be on good Championship players to help us next season in our next "yo-yo" season, or young cheap but high upside players for the sale part of our strategy - if PSR allows it of course.

The club already believe the squad is too big, I can't see us bringing anyone in, but if we do need to offload some first, hopefully can cancel the loans and roll the dice on a couple of new ones that can contribute more than our current ones. 

[Farmer Saint]

5 minutes ago, Football Special said:

The club already believe the squad is too big, I can't see us bringing anyone in, but if we do need to offload some first, hopefully can cancel the loans and roll the dice on a couple of new ones that can contribute more than our current ones. 

Yep, will free up a huge amount of wages (circa £100k PW) and allow us the headroom for PSR.

Potential exit for ABK, Sulemana and Tall Paul.

Edited November 13 by Farmer Saint

[verlaine1979]

Jeez, give it a rest about PSR. Anyone would think you're a club plant sent here with the sole purpose of seeding a narrative about financial constraint. (Just like I was a plant sent here by the Catholic Church to undermine faith in Steven Davis).

[SaintsBarry74]

Could we sell Russell Martin? Reduce our losses.

[Lighthouse]

1 hour ago, Football Special said:

The club already believe the squad is too big, I can't see us bringing anyone in, but if we do need to offload some first, hopefully can cancel the loans and roll the dice on a couple of new ones that can contribute more than our current ones. 

I don't think there can be any arguments on that point. We've got about seven players too many.

[Whitey Grandad]

4 minutes ago, SaintsBarry74 said:

Could we sell Russell Martin? Reduce our losses.

Just remember: the longer he stays the less it costs to get rid of him.

[Andy Hill]

The continual playing of JS in a “pseudo” back 5 is insane. We have to scrap this in favour of a more attacking formation in the hope that we manage to create the odd shot on target and maybe even a goal from open play.

[Whitey Grandad]

5 minutes ago, Andy Hill said:

The continual playing of JS in a “pseudo” back 5 is insane. We have to scrap this in favour of a more attacking formation in the hope that we manage to create the odd shot on target and maybe even a goal from open play.

He’s a spectator in a game where we need an extra player with in midfield or further forward.

[Mr X]

So literally SR are still going to persist with him when pool put 5 plus goals past us? 

[Oldandtired]

11 hours ago, Lighthouse said:

I don't think there can be any arguments on that point. We've got about seven players too many.

Players? Not so sure about that, bodies going through the motions maybe.

[Toussaint]

11 hours ago, Whitey Grandad said:

Just remember: the longer he stays the less it costs to get rid of him.

The less it costs in the short term, but the  longer term effect of keeping could be catastrophic. Thats the decision they don’t seem “brave” enough to make. The “Sunk cost fallacy” springs to mind.
 

I do also wonder if they have to get rid of Martin it will expose Rasmus as the “catch me if you can” charlatan a lot of us believe him to be. 

[kitch]

2 hours ago, Mr X said:

So literally SR are still going to persist with him when pool put 5 plus goals past us? 

They'd expect to lose that game anyway. RM gets credit in the bank every time we 'compete' with a big club (Arsenal; City), play well and don't get thrashed. Ultimately we still lose, but it bangs the drum that there's a team in there.
Then we play someone like Wolves, Leicester or Bournemouth where we could actually have a chance of getting a result if we play well and we don't show up, or are tactically bullied by them.

Rinse & repeat.

[Fitzhugh Fella]

1 minute ago, kitch said:

They'd expect to lose that game anyway. RM gets credit in the bank every time we 'compete' with a big club (Arsenal; City), play well and don't get thrashed. Ultimately we still lose, but it bangs the drum that there's a team in there.
Then we play someone like Wolves, Leicester or Bournemouth where we could actually have a chance of getting a result if we play well and we don't show up, or are tactically bullied by them.

Rinse & repeat.

Rinse and repeat seems to be the club mantra at present. A plucky 1-0 defeat at City is seen as a turning point only for us to resort to type in our next away fixture.

He obviously isn't going to get sacked anytime soon and if and when he does it will be too late to a) attract anyone decent and b) too late to avoid the drop.

Taking the above into consideration then all the blame must now be aimed at SR who I think are more worried about how sacking RM would look .......compared  to continue to loyally back him, whatever. This shows a weak and stubborn Board who know they have dropped a clanger but continue to furiously dig the hole ever deeper. It is verging on the criminal.

[Charlie Wayman]

47 minutes ago, Toussaint said:

The less it costs in the short term, but the  longer term effect of keeping could be catastrophic. Thats the decision they don’t seem “brave” enough to make. The “Sunk cost fallacy” springs to mind.
 

I do also wonder if they have to get rid of Martin it will expose Rasmus as the “catch me if you can” charlatan a lot of us believe him to be. 

They're expecting that our fortunes will turn a corner soon and everthing will fall into place so that they can crow to the disbelievers that Martin was the right choice and just needed to be given time.

The only trouble with that pious hope is that every corner Martin has turned so far has revealed another corner just up the road.

[sadoldgit]

Like every one else on this forum, I have no idea what is going on behind the scenes, but isn’t it possible that SR have a wish list of replacement managers that they have worked through and drawn a blank so far? Having messed up with Jones I expect that are very wary about bringing in a poorer option. It would make sense to stick with Martin until they have found a better replacement.

As it stands, baring a spectacular influx of quality players in the January window, which we know is not going to happen, we are down. Finding a quality coach who will be prepared to play out this season and then able to bring us straight back up isn’t going to be an easy ask. I don’t envy those who are tasked with finding the next coach.
 

[Kenilworthy]

6 minutes ago, sadoldgit said:

Like every one else on this forum, I have no idea what is going on behind the scenes, but isn’t it possible that SR have a wish list of replacement managers that they have worked through and drawn a blank so far? Having messed up with Jones I expect that are very wary about bringing in a poorer option. It would make sense to stick with Martin until they have found a better replacement.

As it stands, baring a spectacular influx of quality players in the January window, which we know is not going to happen, we are down. Finding a quality coach who will be prepared to play out this season and then able to bring us straight back up isn’t going to be an easy ask. I don’t envy those who are tasked with finding the next coach.
 

Its a reasonable take on the situation. But no matter what, RM needs to be gone now. If there is no immediate replacement then just appoint Lallana as caretaker.

[CheshireSaint]

It is understandable that financial considerations may be forcing SR's hand one way or another. In the interim, what I don't understand is why RM isn't being sat down and told in no uncertain terms that this sh1te style of play needs to be ripped up and a more direct approach taken. If he absolutely refuses to consider any other system, then why doesn't that constitute a refusal of a reasonable request? I know football management isn't the same as an 'ordinary' job but there has to be something the board can do. Relieve the idiot of his duties and get Lallana in with the same brief, with bonus related incentives. Go down fighting at least. Failure to address this will have a knock on effect of season ticket sales for next season, especially if he is still going to be here. It's a mess and simply can't continue in this manner.  

[Whitey Grandad]

19 minutes ago, CheshireSaint said:

It is understandable that financial considerations may be forcing SR's hand one way or another. In the interim, what I don't understand is why RM isn't being sat down and told in no uncertain terms that this sh1te style of play needs to be ripped up and a more direct approach taken. If he absolutely refuses to consider any other system, then why doesn't that constitute a refusal of a reasonable request? I know football management isn't the same as an 'ordinary' job but there has to be something the board can do. Relieve the idiot of his duties and get Lallana in with the same brief, with bonus related incentives. Go down fighting at least. Failure to address this will have a knock on effect of season ticket sales for next season, especially if he is still going to be here. It's a mess and simply can't continue in this manner.  

In my world if anyone refuses to do the job the way that the management want them to they are open to termination of contract.

[gio1saints]

@Farmer Saint is one of the few talking sensibly on here atm. Maybe running a farm gets you realistic about real life but I don’t think his assessment of our current situation is too far wrong. People should listen carefully cos he knows his stuff. Even if he is a part of that satanic devil worshippers cult that taunt and tease saints fans every transfer window. 😁

Having said that, I personally disagree with his and the general consensus opinion of RM and our tactical approach on here.
That is largely to do with my personal perception of how long it takes or might realistically take - and what might be necessary- to change Saints from what they were 18 mths ago to where I and most Saints supporters would like them to be. 
 

And where is that? Well put it this way, I’m tired of us being also rans, of being plucky losers, of losing our best players year after year and trying to “ compete” on an unfair pitch versus the “ Big Boys”.
 

Brief Moments of happiness interleaved with seasons of mediocrity and struggle is the quick 1 sentence history of our club.
 

I despise the system that perpetuates this and I resent that it keeps not just Saints but about 90 other clubs in the leagues formally in there place-  permanently. If there was a vote for having a revolution in football I’d vote for it. But that’s not happening.
 

Extreme times call for extreme measures. What RM is doing is nuts. It’s crazy stupid. It’s extreme. Fuck it we’ve tried everything else my view is go all-in on this approach for as long as SR have the funding and see where we get to. Can we create a new football superpower legacy ? We’ve not done so in 100+ years of trying mainly conventional ways so hold onto your courage let’s go! 
 

WWE are probably going down anyway. We’ve been in Div one and got back. Long timers have seen the cycles endlessly repeat.  This way of doing it is different. Disastrously so? Maybe but relegation is relegation and we been there a bunch of times and it does not scare me. Disaster to me is doing what we always do and historically have done - sack the manager abandon the plan lose the belief- and What scares memory is NOT trying to break this stranglehold and seeing the game eventually get snuffed out. Cos that’s what’s happening. 
 

Edited November 14 by gio1saints

[Weston Super Saint]

17 minutes ago, gio1saints said:

@Farmer Saint is one of the few talking sensibly on here atm. Maybe running a farm gets you realistic about real life but I don’t think his assessment of our current situation is too far wrong. People should listen carefully cos he knows his stuff. Even if he is a part of that satanic devil worshippers cult that taunt and tease saints fans every transfer window. 😁

Having said that, I personally disagree with his and the general consensus opinion of RM and our tactical approach on here.
That is largely to do with my personal perception of how long it takes or might realistically take - and what might be necessary- to change Saints from what they were 18 mths ago to where I and most Saints supporters would like them to be. 
 

And where is that? Well put it this way, I’m tired of us being also rans, of being plucky losers, of losing our best players year after year and trying to “ compete” on an unfair pitch versus the “ Big Boys”.
 

Brief Moments of happiness interleaved with seasons of mediocrity and struggle is the quick 1 sentence history of our club.
 

I despise the system that perpetuates this and I resent that it keeps not just Saints but about 90 other clubs in the leagues formally in there place-  permanently. If there was a vote for having a revolution in football I’d vote for it. But that’s not happening.
 

Extreme times call for extreme measures. What RM is doing is nuts. It’s crazy stupid. It’s extreme. Fuck it we’ve tried everything else my view is go all-in on this approach for as long as SR have the funding and see where we get to. Can we create a new football superpower legacy ? We’ve not done so in 100+ years of trying mainly conventional ways so hold onto your courage let’s go! 
 

WWE are probably going down anyway. We’ve been in Div one and got back. Long timers have seen the cycles endlessly repeat.  This way of doing it is different. Disastrously so? Maybe but relegation is relegation and we been there a bunch of times and it does not scare me. Disaster to me is doing what we always do and historically have done - sack the manager abandon the plan lose the belief- and What scares memory is NOT trying to break this stranglehold and seeing the game eventually get snuffed out. Cos that’s what’s happening. 
 

A 'football superpower legacy'.

Jesus wept 🤦‍♂️

[coalman]

13 minutes ago, gio1saints said:

@Farmer Saint is one of the few talking sensibly on here atm. Maybe running a farm gets you realistic about real life but I don’t think his assessment of our current situation is too far wrong. People should listen carefully cos he knows his stuff. Even if he is a part of that satanic devil worshippers cult that taunt and tease saints fans every transfer window. 😁

Having said that, I personally disagree with his and the general consensus opinion of RM and our tactical approach on here.
That is largely to do with my personal perception of how long it takes or might realistically take - and what might be necessary- to change Saints from what they were 18 mths ago to where I and most Saints supporters would like them to be. 
 

And where is that? Well put it this way, I’m tired of us being also rans, of being plucky losers, of losing our best players year after year and trying to “ compete” on an unfair pitch versus the “ Big Boys”.
 

Brief Moments of happiness interleaved with seasons of mediocrity and struggle is the quick 1 sentence history of our club.
 

I despise the system that perpetuates this and I resent that it keeps not just Saints but about 90 other clubs in the leagues formally in there place-  permanently. If there was a vote for having a revolution in football I’d vote for it. But that’s not happening.
 

Extreme times call for extreme measures. What RM is doing is nuts. It’s crazy stupid. It’s extreme. Fuck it we’ve tried everything else my view is go all-in on this approach for as long as SR have the funding and see where we get to. Can we create a new football superpower legacy ? We’ve not done so in 100+ years of trying mainly conventional ways so hold onto your courage let’s go! 
 

WWE are probably going down anyway. We’ve been in Div one and got back. Long timers have seen the cycles endlessly repeat.  This way of doing it is different. Disastrously so? Maybe but relegation is relegation and we been there a bunch of times and it does not scare me. Disaster to me is doing what we always do and historically have done - sack the manager abandon the plan lose the belief- and What scares memory is NOT trying to break this stranglehold and seeing the game eventually get snuffed out. Cos that’s what’s happening. 
 

Out of curiosity - what would need to happen or you to see in order to change your opinion of Russell Martin as a manager? What would be the tipping point for you to think that we needed a change? How long should we keep persisting with our current approach both with Martin and also as a club under Sport Republic?

 

[franniesTache]

27 minutes ago, gio1saints said:

@Farmer Saint is one of the few talking sensibly on here atm. Maybe running a farm gets you realistic about real life but I don’t think his assessment of our current situation is too far wrong. People should listen carefully cos he knows his stuff. Even if he is a part of that satanic devil worshippers cult that taunt and tease saints fans every transfer window. 😁

Having said that, I personally disagree with his and the general consensus opinion of RM and our tactical approach on here.
That is largely to do with my personal perception of how long it takes or might realistically take - and what might be necessary- to change Saints from what they were 18 mths ago to where I and most Saints supporters would like them to be. 
 

And where is that? Well put it this way, I’m tired of us being also rans, of being plucky losers, of losing our best players year after year and trying to “ compete” on an unfair pitch versus the “ Big Boys”.
 

Brief Moments of happiness interleaved with seasons of mediocrity and struggle is the quick 1 sentence history of our club.
 

I despise the system that perpetuates this and I resent that it keeps not just Saints but about 90 other clubs in the leagues formally in there place-  permanently. If there was a vote for having a revolution in football I’d vote for it. But that’s not happening.
 

Extreme times call for extreme measures. What RM is doing is nuts. It’s crazy stupid. It’s extreme. Fuck it we’ve tried everything else my view is go all-in on this approach for as long as SR have the funding and see where we get to. Can we create a new football superpower legacy ? We’ve not done so in 100+ years of trying mainly conventional ways so hold onto your courage let’s go! 
 

WWE are probably going down anyway. We’ve been in Div one and got back. Long timers have seen the cycles endlessly repeat.  This way of doing it is different. Disastrously so? Maybe but relegation is relegation and we been there a bunch of times and it does not scare me. Disaster to me is doing what we always do and historically have done - sack the manager abandon the plan lose the belief- and What scares memory is NOT trying to break this stranglehold and seeing the game eventually get snuffed out. Cos that’s what’s happening. 
 

This post is parody right? Or did you decide to drink bleach and take magic mushrooms before you wrote it

[Miltonaggro]

28 minutes ago, gio1saints said:

@Farmer Saint is one of the few talking sensibly on here atm. Maybe running a farm gets you realistic about real life but I don’t think his assessment of our current situation is too far wrong. People should listen carefully cos he knows his stuff. Even if he is a part of that satanic devil worshippers cult that taunt and tease saints fans every transfer window. 😁

Having said that, I personally disagree with his and the general consensus opinion of RM and our tactical approach on here.
That is largely to do with my personal perception of how long it takes or might realistically take - and what might be necessary- to change Saints from what they were 18 mths ago to where I and most Saints supporters would like them to be. 
 

And where is that? Well put it this way, I’m tired of us being also rans, of being plucky losers, of losing our best players year after year and trying to “ compete” on an unfair pitch versus the “ Big Boys”.
 

Brief Moments of happiness interleaved with seasons of mediocrity and struggle is the quick 1 sentence history of our club.
 

I despise the system that perpetuates this and I resent that it keeps not just Saints but about 90 other clubs in the leagues formally in there place-  permanently. If there was a vote for having a revolution in football I’d vote for it. But that’s not happening.
 

Extreme times call for extreme measures. What RM is doing is nuts. It’s crazy stupid. It’s extreme. Fuck it we’ve tried everything else my view is go all-in on this approach for as long as SR have the funding and see where we get to. Can we create a new football superpower legacy ? We’ve not done so in 100+ years of trying mainly conventional ways so hold onto your courage let’s go! 
 

WWE are probably going down anyway. We’ve been in Div one and got back. Long timers have seen the cycles endlessly repeat.  This way of doing it is different. Disastrously so? Maybe but relegation is relegation and we been there a bunch of times and it does not scare me. Disaster to me is doing what we always do and historically have done - sack the manager abandon the plan lose the belief- and What scares memory is NOT trying to break this stranglehold and seeing the game eventually get snuffed out. Cos that’s what’s happening. 
 

Fucking gold. Almost every line...

[Farmer Saint]

53 minutes ago, gio1saints said:

@Farmer Saint is one of the few talking sensibly on here atm. Maybe running a farm gets you realistic about real life but I don’t think his assessment of our current situation is too far wrong. People should listen carefully cos he knows his stuff. Even if he is a part of that satanic devil worshippers cult that taunt and tease saints fans every transfer window. 😁

Having said that, I personally disagree with his and the general consensus opinion of RM and our tactical approach on here.
That is largely to do with my personal perception of how long it takes or might realistically take - and what might be necessary- to change Saints from what they were 18 mths ago to where I and most Saints supporters would like them to be. 
 

And where is that? Well put it this way, I’m tired of us being also rans, of being plucky losers, of losing our best players year after year and trying to “ compete” on an unfair pitch versus the “ Big Boys”.
 

Brief Moments of happiness interleaved with seasons of mediocrity and struggle is the quick 1 sentence history of our club.
 

I despise the system that perpetuates this and I resent that it keeps not just Saints but about 90 other clubs in the leagues formally in there place-  permanently. If there was a vote for having a revolution in football I’d vote for it. But that’s not happening.
 

Extreme times call for extreme measures. What RM is doing is nuts. It’s crazy stupid. It’s extreme. Fuck it we’ve tried everything else my view is go all-in on this approach for as long as SR have the funding and see where we get to. Can we create a new football superpower legacy ? We’ve not done so in 100+ years of trying mainly conventional ways so hold onto your courage let’s go! 
 

WWE are probably going down anyway. We’ve been in Div one and got back. Long timers have seen the cycles endlessly repeat.  This way of doing it is different. Disastrously so? Maybe but relegation is relegation and we been there a bunch of times and it does not scare me. Disaster to me is doing what we always do and historically have done - sack the manager abandon the plan lose the belief- and What scares memory is NOT trying to break this stranglehold and seeing the game eventually get snuffed out. Cos that’s what’s happening. 
 

FFS, that's any credibility I had left down the fucking pan after that endorsement. Cheers pal.

Edited November 14 by Farmer Saint

[Chewy]

1 minute ago, Farmer Saint said:

FFS, that's any credibility I had left down the fucking pan after that endorsement. Cheers pal.

So no damage done then

[gio1saints]

39 minutes ago, coalman said:

Out of curiosity - what would need to happen or you to see in order to change your opinion of Russell Martin as a manager? What would be the tipping point for you to think that we needed a change? How long should we keep persisting with our current approach both with Martin and also as a club under Sport Republic?

 

Appreciate the fair way of asking - thank you. 
 

If RM was found guilty of criminal activity he should go. 

If we go down two leagues he should go. 

If he loses his composure and starts biting back at fans, blaming them - he should go.
 

Otherwise I think he has a two or three year contract? If he has not delivered in that time or we are not sufficiently progressed on the long term plan ( that I have not seen but can guess at) then do not renew. Week by week results I’m not so obsessed on as the rest here. I try to look longer term. 

RM is there not just to deliver for SFC ~ but to deliver for SR. And frankly that’s the more important part. If he is not delivering to SR he will be gone soon enough don’t worry. I personally do not want that to happen and hope that a man we’ve given two or three years to fix something will be allowed that two or three years to fix it. As others have said- replacing him is unlikely to change the outcome of this season. Second half of this season is basically a free hit for the concept and playbook, without the pressure or fear of relegation. 

[imadirtyurchin]

1 hour ago, gio1saints said:

@Farmer Saint is one of the few talking sensibly on here atm. Maybe running a farm gets you realistic about real life but I don’t think his assessment of our current situation is too far wrong. People should listen carefully cos he knows his stuff. Even if he is a part of that satanic devil worshippers cult that taunt and tease saints fans every transfer window. 😁

Having said that, I personally disagree with his and the general consensus opinion of RM and our tactical approach on here.
That is largely to do with my personal perception of how long it takes or might realistically take - and what might be necessary- to change Saints from what they were 18 mths ago to where I and most Saints supporters would like them to be. 
 

And where is that? Well put it this way, I’m tired of us being also rans, of being plucky losers, of losing our best players year after year and trying to “ compete” on an unfair pitch versus the “ Big Boys”.
 

Brief Moments of happiness interleaved with seasons of mediocrity and struggle is the quick 1 sentence history of our club.
 

I despise the system that perpetuates this and I resent that it keeps not just Saints but about 90 other clubs in the leagues formally in there place-  permanently. If there was a vote for having a revolution in football I’d vote for it. But that’s not happening.
 

Extreme times call for extreme measures. What RM is doing is nuts. It’s crazy stupid. It’s extreme. Fuck it we’ve tried everything else my view is go all-in on this approach for as long as SR have the funding and see where we get to. Can we create a new football superpower legacy ? We’ve not done so in 100+ years of trying mainly conventional ways so hold onto your courage let’s go! 
 

WWE are probably going down anyway. We’ve been in Div one and got back. Long timers have seen the cycles endlessly repeat.  This way of doing it is different. Disastrously so? Maybe but relegation is relegation and we been there a bunch of times and it does not scare me. Disaster to me is doing what we always do and historically have done - sack the manager abandon the plan lose the belief- and What scares memory is NOT trying to break this stranglehold and seeing the game eventually get snuffed out. Cos that’s what’s happening. 
 

I’m not sure that having one of the lowest chance creation stats in the league, plus the lowest shot rate and even fewer goals whilst shipping goals at a rate that would make most teams in the country blush is a way to create a new foootballing superpower legacy. Especially when we have SO MUCH of the ball. I feel like I’m being gaslit - how the hell is it okay to have so much possession and do so little with it whilst not even being defensively solid as a result? What’s the fucking point? 

[coalman]

3 minutes ago, gio1saints said:

Appreciate the fair way of asking - thank you. 
 

If RM was found guilty of criminal activity he should go. 

If we go down two leagues he should go. 

If he loses his composure and starts biting back at fans, blaming them - he should go.
 

Otherwise I think he has a two or three year contract? If he has not delivered in that time or we are not sufficiently progressed on the long term plan ( that I have not seen but can guess at) then do not renew. Week by week results I’m not so obsessed on as the rest here. I try to look longer term. 

RM is there not just to deliver for SFC ~ but to deliver for SR. And frankly that’s the more important part. If he is not delivering to SR he will be gone soon enough don’t worry. I personally do not want that to happen and hope that a man we’ve given two or three years to fix something will be allowed that two or three years to fix it. As others have said- replacing him is unlikely to change the outcome of this season. Second half of this season is basically a free hit for the concept and playbook, without the pressure or fear of relegation. 

What would sufficient progress against the plan look like? In particular - where should we be right now? Where should we be by the end of December? Where should we be by the end of the season? How will we know the plan is working?

[Toussaint]

9 minutes ago, gio1saints said:

Appreciate the fair way of asking - thank you. 
 

If RM was found guilty of criminal activity he should go. 

If we go down two leagues he should go. 

If he loses his composure and starts biting back at fans, blaming them - he should go.
 

Otherwise I think he has a two or three year contract? If he has not delivered in that time or we are not sufficiently progressed on the long term plan ( that I have not seen but can guess at) then do not renew. Week by week results I’m not so obsessed on as the rest here. I try to look longer term. 

RM is there not just to deliver for SFC ~ but to deliver for SR. And frankly that’s the more important part. If he is not delivering to SR he will be gone soon enough don’t worry. I personally do not want that to happen and hope that a man we’ve given two or three years to fix something will be allowed that two or three years to fix it. As others have said- replacing him is unlikely to change the outcome of this season. Second half of this season is basically a free hit for the concept and playbook, without the pressure or fear of relegation. 

I think 3 further years of the current regime would take us to a place from where it would be very difficult to return. 

[Turkish]

1 hour ago, gio1saints said:

@Farmer Saint is one of the few talking sensibly on here atm. Maybe running a farm gets you realistic about real life but I don’t think his assessment of our current situation is too far wrong. People should listen carefully cos he knows his stuff. Even if he is a part of that satanic devil worshippers cult that taunt and tease saints fans every transfer window. 😁

Having said that, I personally disagree with his and the general consensus opinion of RM and our tactical approach on here.
That is largely to do with my personal perception of how long it takes or might realistically take - and what might be necessary- to change Saints from what they were 18 mths ago to where I and most Saints supporters would like them to be. 
 

And where is that? Well put it this way, I’m tired of us being also rans, of being plucky losers, of losing our best players year after year and trying to “ compete” on an unfair pitch versus the “ Big Boys”.
 

Brief Moments of happiness interleaved with seasons of mediocrity and struggle is the quick 1 sentence history of our club.
 

I despise the system that perpetuates this and I resent that it keeps not just Saints but about 90 other clubs in the leagues formally in there place-  permanently. If there was a vote for having a revolution in football I’d vote for it. But that’s not happening.
 

Extreme times call for extreme measures. What RM is doing is nuts. It’s crazy stupid. It’s extreme. Fuck it we’ve tried everything else my view is go all-in on this approach for as long as SR have the funding and see where we get to. Can we create a new football superpower legacy ? We’ve not done so in 100+ years of trying mainly conventional ways so hold onto your courage let’s go! 
 

WWE are probably going down anyway. We’ve been in Div one and got back. Long timers have seen the cycles endlessly repeat.  This way of doing it is different. Disastrously so? Maybe but relegation is relegation and we been there a bunch of times and it does not scare me. Disaster to me is doing what we always do and historically have done - sack the manager abandon the plan lose the belief- and What scares memory is NOT trying to break this stranglehold and seeing the game eventually get snuffed out. Cos that’s what’s happening. 
 

This x 1000 brilliant post

Truth Passes Through Three Stages: First, It Is Ridiculed. Second, It Is Violently Opposed. Third, It Is Accepted As Self-Evident

 

Russball has achieved stage one, when the fans start to turn to opposition then he will have achieved stage 2. Soon we will see the world turn to Russball as the new gold standard of soccerball and everyone will except he is a genius and he'll be up there with Cruyff and Guardiola as the revolutionaries of the game. 

then he will have created a new dynasty, the new normal, the global soccerball super power we all want us to be.

Like Russball, it need patience but its incredible that people cant see what he is achieving here.