Russell Martin

[Harry_SFC]

6 hours ago, coalman said:

David Ornstein now giving his opinion on Martin. 

"No doubt it's precarious there, but I don't know of him being in imminent danger of being removed from his position, and that's because he's highly thought of.

He bought Southampton into the Premier League. Their ambition was to stay there, and they very well could do so this season.

The view of him is high, not only inside Southampton among the ownserhip, but outside as well.

There's a feeling that perhaps the players have not been good enough, and they're going to need to do something in the January transfer window."

So that's it. The players, who aren't good enough and are going to be replaced think highly of Martin. As do the ownership who are high on something and the solution is to let him buy even more players in January to turn things around. I'm guessing these same players, who aren't good enough, are feeling really bad that they're the thing holding Martin back from achieving his vision. It's unclear who the people outside Southampton (also clearly high) that like Martin. At least that's what I got out of this.

In fact, this situation might be more easily explicable (and even forgivable) if it turned out that everyone at or involved with the club was totally bollocksed out of their fucking minds on a truly incredible cocktail of substances.

Meanwhile Russmus comes late to Southampton as Martin and Ankersen are set for another shopping spree in Jnauary to fill our squad with more randomly scouted players that we don't need and will in no way form the financial millstone that causes us to financially implode again (a la Redknapp).

Clearly by "outside" he means people in football but I can tell you one thing, literally everyone I know who isn't a Saints fan thinks Martin's tactics/style is a load of shite. 

Also... the players haven't been good enough. The same players that were signed by SR themselves!? It's really quite amusing. 

[Wade Garrett]

6 hours ago, coalman said:

David Ornstein now giving his opinion on Martin. 

"No doubt it's precarious there, but I don't know of him being in imminent danger of being removed from his position, and that's because he's highly thought of.

He bought Southampton into the Premier League. Their ambition was to stay there, and they very well could do so this season.

The view of him is high, not only inside Southampton among the ownserhip, but outside as well.

There's a feeling that perhaps the players have not been good enough, and they're going to need to do something in the January transfer window."

So that's it. The players, who aren't good enough and are going to be replaced think highly of Martin. As do the ownership who are high on something and the solution is to let him buy even more players in January to turn things around. I'm guessing these same players, who aren't good enough, are feeling really bad that they're the thing holding Martin back from achieving his vision. It's unclear who the people outside Southampton (also clearly high) that like Martin. At least that's what I got out of this.

In fact, this situation might be more easily explicable (and even forgivable) if it turned out that everyone at or involved with the club was totally bollocksed out of their fucking minds on a truly incredible cocktail of substances.

Meanwhile Russmus comes late to Southampton as Martin and Ankersen are set for another shopping spree in Jnauary to fill our squad with more randomly scouted players that we don't need and will in no way form the financial millstone that causes us to financially implode again (a la Redknapp).

The PR shit being fed to the media is an insult to the fans and no more than gaslighting.

None of their bullshit words will change a single thing on the pitch.  We’ll continue to play like an opponent’s dream and continue to lose.

Those clueless fucking pricks making the decisions are an absolute waste of fucking time.  Fucking embarrassing.

[Whitey Grandad]

1 hour ago, coalman said:

So you're saying Russball can't work?

Sorry to piss on your bonfire 😜

[FarehamSaintJames]

I’m not against some of our tactics.

But passing for passings sake is an utter waste, forty passes around the edge of an opposition box without so much as a shot isn’t tactical genius, it’s naive.

We have players who have an ability to run with the ball (Sulemana and Cornet) albeit they’re pretty crap but try a different approach, let the ST drop deeper and allow the wider players to run and cut inside more narrowly.

You make up the width with the full backs and maintain a solid centre with the midfielders and defenders.

[coalman]

25 minutes ago, Whitey Grandad said:

Sorry to piss on your bonfire 😜

Well, fuck. 

[Galway saint]

1 hour ago, Harry_SFC said:

Clearly by "outside" he means people in football but I can tell you one thing, literally everyone I know who isn't a Saints fan thinks Martin's tactics/style is a load of shite. 

Also... the players haven't been good enough. The same players that were signed by SR themselves!? It's really quite amusing. 

Most of the players aren’t good enough if we’re honest ( particularly in attack) but it’s whether we want to be relegated with approx 10 points or at least try and make a fight of it. I’m not sure what the club is expecting - it’s not just going to click into place. At the moment we’re not competitive and we have the wrong manager for the current situation and players. Seems pretty obvious but unless there’s someone better waiting in the wings what’s the point ? Ultimately we were shit during our last season in the PL and we are even worse now and you can only lay so much of that on RM. The club is not well run and the recruitment has with a few exceptions been really poor so I hope we don’t piss more money up the wall in January until we’ve got a decent scouting set up but I won’t hold my breath for that 

[Dellyears]

31 minutes ago, FarehamSaintJames said:

I’m not against some of our tactics.

But passing for passings sake is an utter waste, forty passes around the edge of an opposition box without so much as a shot isn’t tactical genius, it’s naive.

We have players who have an ability to run with the ball (Sulemana and Cornet) albeit they’re pretty crap but try a different approach, let the ST drop deeper and allow the wider players to run and cut inside more narrowly.

You make up the width with the full backs and maintain a solid centre with the midfielders and defenders.

Players who run with the ball! Oh those were the days, who can forget Mike Channon, he frightened the daylights out of the best defences and was exciting to watch. Who does that today? its out of fashion, square passes are the order of the day, that sends me to sleep. 

[gio1saints]

3 minutes ago, Dellyears said:

Players who run with the ball! Oh those were the days, who can forget Mike Channon, he frightened the daylights out of the best defences and was exciting to watch. Who does that today? its out of fashion, square passes are the order of the day, that sends me to sleep. 

Mike Channon was a generational talent agreed.

But you asked who does that today? Closest we have is Tyler Dibling. Everything points to a rosy future for him. Last year I’d say KWP was our only player regularly running at and past / around players with the ball. Mateus has already ghosted past players with the ball on a number of occasions this season and he too looks destined for greatness though it’s early days for both him and Tyler for sure. But both are at least starlets already. 

[derry]

I've just watched the U21s playing Wealdstone in the National League Cup. They lost 1-3 and scored a late goal from a corner. Exactly like the first team, total garbage. As an example, for the last minute and a half needing a goal we just recycled the ball including possibly three free kicks on the halfway line. "Hail Mary" time, everybody into the box, no fear,  pass it sideways and back to the keeper and out to the full backs, etc, etc, never got over the halfway line, shades of Manchester City, the ball went back to our keeper then the full time whistle was blown. I think the players are playing by numbers and virtually brain dead. Much like the so called coaches. Can somebody invent another game this one is a scam.

[HarvSFC]

This is just crap. If we dominated the Championship like Leicester last season, you could forgive the board for giving Martin a bit more time. If we had won consecutive promotions under Martin, like we did Nigel Adkins, who lost his job so that the club could go up another level, you could forgive the board for giving Martin a bit more time.

But, neither of those scenarios happened. We finished fourth and nine points behind the automatic promotion spots with one of the better squads in the league. Parts of last season were really good, but there was also a lot of bad parts and a number of warning signs about what this season may bring.

The facts are that we have played 11 league games this season, won one, drew one and lost the other nine. We've also had quite a favourable start to the season in terms of the fixture list.

This line that Martin's rated outside of the club is also rubbish. Guardiola just blew smoke up his arse, it's a well known Guardiola tactic. He did it to Nathan Redmond. Then within the club, you have to ask if Martin is so highly rated, then why did Adams, Stuart Armstrong and now KWP turn down contracts to continue working with him and with his style of play. He won't get a Premier League job after he leaves us.

Of course morale is going to be high in the squad. Martin's signed a load of his mates in Fraser, Downes, Wood and Manning. They aren't going to turn against him and they're going to have an influence in the dressing room. Alongside these you also have captain Jack Stephens, who under any other manager wouldn't be a Premier League player, so he's also happy to latch onto Martin, and he's meant to be the leader.

When we get pumped by Liverpool in the next game without laying a glove on them, the fans need to make feelings clear. He needed to go in an international break, we've missed that opportunity. So, it's all just rubbish from Sports Republic and Ankersen once again. They've learned nothing about being proactive.

Talking about January signings too. Like with Sulemana and Onuachu, we'll wait until deadline day to make any impactful signings, when it will be too late.

Edited Tuesday at 23:38 by HarvSFC

[Gloucester Saint]

11 hours ago, coalman said:

David Ornstein now giving his opinion on Martin. 

"No doubt it's precarious there, but I don't know of him being in imminent danger of being removed from his position, and that's because he's highly thought of.

He bought Southampton into the Premier League. Their ambition was to stay there, and they very well could do so this season.

The view of him is high, not only inside Southampton among the ownserhip, but outside as well.

There's a feeling that perhaps the players have not been good enough, and they're going to need to do something in the January transfer window."

So that's it. The players, who aren't good enough and are going to be replaced think highly of Martin. As do the ownership who are high on something and the solution is to let him buy even more players in January to turn things around. I'm guessing these same players, who aren't good enough, are feeling really bad that they're the thing holding Martin back from achieving his vision. It's unclear who the people outside Southampton (also clearly high) that like Martin. At least that's what I got out of this.

In fact, this situation might be more easily explicable (and even forgivable) if it turned out that everyone at or involved with the club was totally bollocksed out of their fucking minds on a truly incredible cocktail of substances.

Meanwhile Russmus comes late to Southampton as Martin and Ankersen are set for another shopping spree in Jnauary to fill our squad with more randomly scouted players that we don't need and will in no way form the financial millstone that causes us to financially implode again (a la Redknapp).

Rasmus truly is clueless about anything football-related. I bet he fed Ornstein that pile of vacuous shit and went for some random flavoured vape outside afterwards. Those comments are truly the final straw for me. Rasmus has achieved nothing but ride off others’ hard work and float around doing TedTalks. 

If you want to watch live football folks, pick your local non league team or lower leagues. Cheltenham Town and Gloucester City for me but it could be Sholing, Eastleigh etc. Just don’t give any SR and this buffoon Ankerson any of your hard earned money. He’s a charlatan and Dragan is a total mug. He’ll destroy the club beyond repair.

He’s referring to Martin but he’s got himself in mind with his comments too. Failing nonentities both of them but they love themselves. I did the protests with Branfoot and Lowe, time for a new generation to step up to the plate. Protests or boycotting - either is good and exposes what the people of the city I grew up in really think.

We’ve all spent too long trying to stop an arrogant club destroying itself multiple times since the early 90s - SFC isn’t Southampton FC as I knew it. I’m far more AFC Wimbledon and SR have turned SFC into MK Dons, plastic franchise stuff. Semmens helped on the way to plasticity by banning all the fans in the Itchen North who had some character.

Edited yesterday at 00:03 by Gloucester Saint

[OttawaSaint]

Fuck, he's still here?

Ludicrous.

Baffling.

Worrying.

Lame.

[Football Special]

4 hours ago, OttawaSaint said:

Fuck, he's still here?

Ludicrous.

Baffling.

Worrying.

Lame.

He's not being sacked, certainly in the short term 

[tdmickey3]

4 hours ago, OttawaSaint said:

Fuck, he's still here?

Ludicrous.

Baffling.

Worrying.

Lame.

He`s employed but a bunch out of depth bullshiters, so yep he`s still fuckin here

Edited 19 hours ago by tdmickey3

[hypochondriac]

Just give up on the season and start thinking about gaining promotion again next year. It's far better for your health. 

[Gloucester Saint]

Just now, hypochondriac said:

Just give up on the season and start thinking about gaining promotion again next year. It's far better for your health. 

Absolutely this, but I’d actually choose to break Derby’s points record if it humiliated first Martin and then Rasmus out of a restructured SR. I’d rather they sold the club full stop but that seems unlikely in the short-term as Ornstein’s comments (he ought to know better as well) fed to him by Rasmus which he won’t challenge, indicate SR are actually enjoying their vanity project. Going by the Martin poll, we certainly are not.

Cheltenham Town and Torquay United this season for me and possibly next if there aren’t seismic changes at SFC over the summer which re-engage me and thousands of others. 

[hypochondriac]

5 minutes ago, Gloucester Saint said:

Absolutely this, but I’d actually choose to break Derby’s points record if it humiliated first Martin and then Rasmus out of a restructured SR. I’d rather they sold the club full stop but that seems unlikely in the short-term as Ornstein’s comments (he ought to know better as well) fed to him by Rasmus which he won’t challenge, indicate SR are actually enjoying their vanity project. Going by the Martin poll, we certainly are not.

Cheltenham Town and Torquay United this season for me and possibly next if there aren’t seismic changes at SFC over the summer which re-engage me and thousands of others. 

I can't imagine Dragan is thrilled about how things are going. Love him or hate him, Cortese would have taken decisisive action by now. Maybe he will bin them all off and get someone else to run things. 

Edited 19 hours ago by hypochondriac

[badgerx16]

35 minutes ago, hypochondriac said:

Just give up on the season and start thinking about gaining promotion again next year. It's far better for your health. 

Possible promotion next season would be dependent on whether Russ is still manager. If he is I don't think we would achieve it; RussBall will be well understood, from an opponent's perspective, and everybody we play will simply go with a high press and direct attacking.

Yes our attack would look impressive from a Championship perspective, but it will still be the same lame, mindless defending, with Bazunu back in goal.

[hypochondriac]

38 minutes ago, badgerx16 said:

Possible promotion next season would be dependent on whether Russ is still manager. If he is I don't think we would achieve it; RussBall will be well understood, from an opponent's perspective, and everybody we play will simply go with a high press and direct attacking.

Yes our attack would look impressive from a Championship perspective, but it will still be the same lame, mindless defending, with Bazunu back in goal.

The difference being we would have more time on the ball and better players for that level. If this year has taught us anything, it's that the gap between the two divisions is rather large. We'd still have to replace Stewart Armstrong and probably Adams. 

Bazunu/new GK 

Sugawara Edwards/new CB Bednarek/Woods Manning/Taylor 

Downes/Charles Smallbone 

Armstrong/Armstrong replacement Lallana/Aribo SAA/Fraser 

Archer/BBD

That team really should perform better than last years. 

Edited 18 hours ago by hypochondriac

[ally_uk]

It really feels like there's a gap between the decisions being made and what’s actually happening on the pitch. We need someone with solid football knowledge who can speak up and say, "This isn't working." A voice that understands both the sport and the pulse of the fans to bring some sense and stability to this situation—someone who can actually advise the owners to take a step back and rethink the current approach.

It’s frustrating to watch, isn’t it? If January’s plan is just to add more players without real quality or purpose, it’ll only make things worse.

The scouting setup and recruitment strategy need serious scrutiny. We’re picking up players that aren’t adding value, and as you said, the Ross Stewart signing is a perfect example of the poor judgment. Whoever’s greenlighting these moves isn’t delivering; 

The decision to extend Martin's contract feels like a clear misstep in hindsight. He might have a good rapport with the squad, but being “one of the lads” doesn’t compensate for tactical inflexibility. The recycling of the ball with no final purpose has led to a style that’s painfully uninspiring to watch. It's almost as if the creativity and drive to go forward are being trained out of the players.

What’s worse, this approach is suffocating any chance creation. In a league where goals are the only way to survive, we’re showing about as much attacking edge as a soggy sponge. Without adapting and instilling a more direct, chance-oriented approach, we’re just watching the same story unfold each game. If the stubbornness continues, it’s hard to see us turning this around.

It’s baffling to see some of the lineup choices lately, and the insistence on forcing certain players into the setup doesn’t make much sense. It’s even worse when, after his tactics fall flat, Martin chooses to call out the players publicly instead of taking accountability. That approach does nothing for morale or cohesion.

And Rasmus—what a disappointment. It’s hard to see what value he’s brought; his involvement feels like more posturing than progress. The club needs a serious wake-up call from the top down. Bringing in a seasoned Director of Football could at least provide structure and a clear vision. Right now, we’re stuck in a loop of poor decisions and a lack of genuine direction, and without decisive action, we’re not going anywhere good.

The Sports Republic takeover was meant to be the start of something transformative, but apart from that brief Wembley high, it’s been one disappointing decision after another. From shaky managerial appointments to questionable transfer choices, the “exciting era” they promised feels like a distant dream....

[Lee On Solent Saint]

1 hour ago, Gloucester Saint said:

Absolutely this, but I’d actually choose to break Derby’s points record if it humiliated first Martin and then Rasmus out of a restructured SR. I’d rather they sold the club full stop but that seems unlikely in the short-term as Ornstein’s comments (he ought to know better as well) fed to him by Rasmus which he won’t challenge, indicate SR are actually enjoying their vanity project. Going by the Martin poll, we certainly are not.

Cheltenham Town and Torquay United this season for me and possibly next if there aren’t seismic changes at SFC over the summer which re-engage me and thousands of others. 

I hate going at the moment. I feel no passion or excitement watching the team.I couldn't be less interested. I still go mainly because I still want my 12 year old son to grow up as a Saints fan. Ultimately, we are going to lose a whole generation of young supporters if the football on offer continues in this vein. 

[Challenger]

1 hour ago, hypochondriac said:

Just give up on the season and start thinking about gaining promotion again next year. It's far better for your health. 

The damage being caused now will run through beyond what happens next season unless it's sorted damn quick.

[hypochondriac]

1 minute ago, Challenger said:

The damage being caused now will run through beyond what happens next season unless it's sorted damn quick.

Could have said the same the last time we went down which was arguably more of a shit show. 

[Farmer Saint]

10 hours ago, HarvSFC said:

This is just crap. If we dominated the Championship like Leicester last season, you could forgive the board for giving Martin a bit more time. If we had won consecutive promotions under Martin, like we did Nigel Adkins, who lost his job so that the club could go up another level, you could forgive the board for giving Martin a bit more time.

But, neither of those scenarios happened. We finished fourth and nine points behind the automatic promotion spots with one of the better squads in the league. Parts of last season were really good, but there was also a lot of bad parts and a number of warning signs about what this season may bring.

The facts are that we have played 11 league games this season, won one, drew one and lost the other nine. We've also had quite a favourable start to the season in terms of the fixture list.

This line that Martin's rated outside of the club is also rubbish. Guardiola just blew smoke up his arse, it's a well known Guardiola tactic. He did it to Nathan Redmond. Then within the club, you have to ask if Martin is so highly rated, then why did Adams, Stuart Armstrong and now KWP turn down contracts to continue working with him and with his style of play. He won't get a Premier League job after he leaves us.

Of course morale is going to be high in the squad. Martin's signed a load of his mates in Fraser, Downes, Wood and Manning. They aren't going to turn against him and they're going to have an influence in the dressing room. Alongside these you also have captain Jack Stephens, who under any other manager wouldn't be a Premier League player, so he's also happy to latch onto Martin, and he's meant to be the leader.

When we get pumped by Liverpool in the next game without laying a glove on them, the fans need to make feelings clear. He needed to go in an international break, we've missed that opportunity. So, it's all just rubbish from Sports Republic and Ankersen once again. They've learned nothing about being proactive.

Talking about January signings too. Like with Sulemana and Onuachu, we'll wait until deadline day to make any impactful signings, when it will be too late.

TBF they were proactive in 2022-2023 - we had 3 Managers - and that didn't work either.

So with the position we're in, do we chuck £12m on sacking (which counts against this year in PSR - no amortisation over contract length) and then a fuck ton at employing someone to the end of the season when it is very unlikely that we'll stay up (3% chance according to Opta based on points, fixtures and players - I don't believe they take Manager into account). This could massively hinder us next season so would we not be better to wait until the beginning of next season (June PSR EOY) and sacking him then?

 

[Farmer Saint]

20 minutes ago, Challenger said:

The damage being caused now will run through beyond what happens next season unless it's sorted damn quick.

What difference is it to last time? People keep saying this but last time we went down we were utterly fucked financially as well.

[Wade Garrett]

1 hour ago, hypochondriac said:

Just give up on the season and start thinking about gaining promotion again next year. It's far better for your health. 

Not if you’ve spunked £700 on a season ticket.

[AlexLaw76]

5 minutes ago, Farmer Saint said:

What difference is it to last time? People keep saying this but last time we went down we were utterly fucked financially as well.

is that why we spent a fortune in Championship standards?

[AlexLaw76]

26 minutes ago, hypochondriac said:

Could have said the same the last time we went down which was arguably more of a shit show. 

the level scar tissue will be horrific...

[Oldandtired]

1 hour ago, hypochondriac said:

Just give up on the season and start thinking about gaining promotion again next year. It's far better for your health. 

Same board, likely same manager, same brand of football which was found out as easy to play against at the latter stages of last season before we won the lottery…..really?

Edited 17 hours ago by Oldandtired

[beatlesaint]

4 minutes ago, AlexLaw76 said:

the level scar tissue will be horrific...

Nah, we'll be fine. We'll still have Capt. Jack, Bazunu, Manning, Fraser, Bereton-Diaz..........yeah ok, fair point 😒

Edited 17 hours ago by beatlesaint

[Lee On Solent Saint]

10 minutes ago, Farmer Saint said:

What difference is it to last time? People keep saying this but last time we went down we were utterly fucked financially as well.

For me, the damage will be if Martin is still in charge next season. 

[Whitey Grandad]

13 minutes ago, Farmer Saint said:

TBF they were proactive in 2022-2023 - we had 3 Managers - and that didn't work either.

So with the position we're in, do we chuck £12m on sacking (which counts against this year in PSR - no amortisation over contract length) and then a fuck ton at employing someone to the end of the season when it is very unlikely that we'll stay up (3% chance according to Opta based on points, fixtures and players - I don't believe they take Manager into account). This could massively hinder us next season so would we not be better to wait until the beginning of next season (June PSR EOY) and sacking him then?

 

Isn’t that why contracts are rarely paid up in full?

[Mr X]

Who is our actual talent scout? Whoever sanctioned the signing of Breton Diaz wants shooting, I think I'd rather have Jack Stephens in the team than him and that's saying something! 

[hypochondriac]

20 minutes ago, AlexLaw76 said:

is that why we spent a fortune in Championship standards?

We will probably sell Dibling, Ramsdale and THB which should net us close to 100 million - more than enough to be competitive in the league below assuming we don't go mad with silly buys this January which is no guarantee. 

[Nordic Saint]

6 minutes ago, hypochondriac said:

We will probably sell Dibling, Ramsdale and THB which should net us close to 100 million - more than enough to be competitive in the league below assuming we don't go mad with silly buys this January which is no guarantee. 

Then there's reality. With our recruitment team, £100 million will just buy a bunch of useless inury-prone players, most of whom will be goal shy left wingers, that we'll be struggling to get rid of a year or two later.

Edited 17 hours ago by Nordic Saint

[benali-shorts]

35 minutes ago, Farmer Saint said:

What difference is it to last time? People keep saying this but last time we went down we were utterly fucked financially as well.

One of the key differences would be the lack of saleable assets in summer 25. Last time, we sold c£150m players on relegation. This time, Fernandes, Ramsdale, TH-B and Dibling (value dependent on contract, talk of which appears to have gone worryingly quiet and the same for Sam A-A) would be sellable for >£15m, there's not much value (or quality) outside of them. We'd have a weaker squad, and difficult to know how much surplus cash we might have to strengthen. There would also be the challenge of renewing contracts - both in terms of finances, but also the medium term issue of knowing quite a few aren't Prem quality even if they did renew. 

[Farmer Saint]

58 minutes ago, AlexLaw76 said:

is that why we spent a fortune in Championship standards?

Prior to our sales this is.

[badgerx16]

1 hour ago, AlexLaw76 said:

is that why we spent a fortune in Championship standards?

But we spent that fortune ON Championship standards.

[badgerx16]

Whatever team we have next season it will still be worse than the other 2 teams that go down with us. Factor in teams such as Leeds and the other 'sleeping giants' and we will probably at best be competing in the free-for-all fight for the playoffs.

[hypochondriac]

1 hour ago, Nordic Saint said:

Then there's reality. With our recruitment team, £100 million will just buy a bunch of useless inury-prone players, most of whom will be goal shy left wingers, that we'll be struggling to get rid of a year or two later.

Or it will buy another Downes or THB in other area of the pitch - players more than good enough to perform at the top of the championship. 

[Farmer Saint]

2 hours ago, Whitey Grandad said:

Isn’t that why contracts are rarely paid up in full?

Yes, exactly - but sacking him it will be, obviously.

[Farmer Saint]

2 hours ago, benali-shorts said:

One of the key differences would be the lack of saleable assets in summer 25. Last time, we sold c£150m players on relegation. This time, Fernandes, Ramsdale, TH-B and Dibling (value dependent on contract, talk of which appears to have gone worryingly quiet and the same for Sam A-A) would be sellable for >£15m, there's not much value (or quality) outside of them. We'd have a weaker squad, and difficult to know how much surplus cash we might have to strengthen. There would also be the challenge of renewing contracts - both in terms of finances, but also the medium term issue of knowing quite a few aren't Prem quality even if they did renew. 

I'm not sure we'd have a much weaker squad versus the one we started the 2023 season with..?

Baz, Macca

Manning, Bree, Suga, Taylor

Bednarek, Stephens, THB? (would we lose him, he'd been awful until the last 3 weeks so probably too early to say), Edwards, Wood 

Downes (doubt we'd lose him, not great in the Prem as predicted), Charles (looking decent on loan) Smallbone, Aribo, Fraser, Sulemana, Edozie, SAA

Armstrong, Stewart, BBD, Archer

 

Not sure where we're much weaker than last year.

Edited 14 hours ago by Farmer Saint

[Forester]

As I have posted a few times here, I would have pulled the trigger after Bournemouth, since then we have lost four of the following five games, two against direct rivals.

The reality I fear is that the Board have concluded that, because of their poor decision making two seasons ago, there are insufficient funds to BOTH change the manager and buy players in January.  It’s one or other.  And I also think they believe they will be in a more secure financial picture after relegation than we were a year or so ago, and with less heavy lifting in the squad.  It’s likely, not certain, that we would have the following players available and prepared to play championship football next season:

Baz, McCarthy, Bree, Manning, Suga, Taylor, Bednarek, Stephens, Wood, Edwards, Downes, Charles, Fraser, Edozie, SAA, Aribo, Smallbone, Armstrong, Stewart, BBD, Archer.  This squad looks light of midfield options, but that is about it for that level.  So you could see it being strong with two or three additions.

I have assumed that Ramsdale, KWP, THB, ABK,  Fernandez, Tall Paul, Kamaldeen and Dibbling would all be sold, and the loans would expire.  I estimate this could raise around £150 million in total, and possibly more as some saleable assets are on long contracts.

The great shame is that despite the appalling start to our season we are only four points off safety, and so I still feel we could be attractive to a new manager.  But I accept it would need someone prepared to manage in the championship if needed.

Edited 14 hours ago by Forester

[Farmer Saint]

1 minute ago, Forester said:

And I also think they believe they will be in a more secure financial picture after relegation than we were a year or so ago, and with less heavy lifting in the squad. 

This is the drum I was banging all last season - finances outlined that we wouldn't invest in enough high value, high wage players if we got promoted due to PSR, which has left us very weak for this season. The fact that Martin has shit the bed tactically could end up being irrelevant due to the fact we seem to have too many Championship Players in the squad.

[AlexLaw76]

2 minutes ago, Farmer Saint said:

This is the drum I was banging all last season - finances outlined that we wouldn't invest in enough high value, high wage players if we got promoted due to PSR, which has left us very weak for this season. The fact that Martin has shit the bed tactically could end up being irrelevant due to the fact we seem to have too many Championship Players in the squad.

Yet here we are, spending nearly as much a Brighton this season....and more then Brentford..

[Saint86]

22 minutes ago, Farmer Saint said:

I'm not sure we'd have a much weaker squad versus the one we started the 2023 season with..?

Baz, Macca

Manning, Bree, Suga, Taylor

Bednarek, Stephens, THB? (would we lose him, he'd been awful until the last 3 weeks so probably too early to say), Edwards, Wood 

Downes (doubt we'd lose him, not great in the Prem as predicted), Charles (looking decent on loan) Smallbone, Aribo, Fraser, Sulemana, Edozie, SAA

Armstrong, Stewart, BBD, Archer

 

Not sure where we're much weaker than last year.

Where is the rest of your player sales?

We will be ripping the squad totally apart following relegation - all saleable assets will be removed.

We raised £160M last time around, and we will be in a similar financial state this time out as well.

Trying to summarise where on earth that money can come from is pretty bleak... I've approximated some valuations below, although we'll be in a far weaker negotiating position this time around without the likes of big money sales to bail us out. Obviously we won't get takers for all these players, and similarly we may have to sell a couple we don't want...

Ramsdale - £25M?

THB - £25M?

Dibling - £20M?

Fernandes - £15-20M

Archer (if we're lucky) - £10M?

Onuachu (if we're lucky) - £5M?

Sulemana - £5-10M

ABK - £5-10N

Reckon we could feasibly get somewhere in the realms of £95-115M all in - its unlikely we're realise maximum value for every player we sold, we'd need to cut wages, and we'd need to balance getting them out the door with trying to fill gaps... but all said and done, it leaves the squad pretty threadbare as it is and doubtful we'd have much money to strengthen.

GK - Baz/Macca (Average champ)

FBs - Bree, Taylor, Manning, Suga (Autos level))

CBs - Stephens, Bednarek, Woods, Edwards (Playoff level)

CDMs - Downes, Charles, (Autos level)

CMS - Smallbone, Aribo, (Play off level))

AM/Wingers - Edozie, SAA, Fraser (Top half)

CFs/St - Armstrong, Stewart (Armstrong is playoff level, but zero depth)

That is a squad that would challenge for the playoffs, not the top 2.

 

Edited 13 hours ago by Saint86

[Farmer Saint]

4 minutes ago, AlexLaw76 said:

Yet here we are, spending nearly as much a Brighton this season....and more then Brentford..

Teams with established Premier League players, not a squad of Championship players.

[AlexLaw76]

1 minute ago, Farmer Saint said:

Teams with established Premier League players, not a squad of Championship players.

still spending high amounts, despite PSR

[Farmer Saint]

Just now, Saint86 said:

Where are your player sales?

We will be ripping the squad apart of relegation - all saleable assets will be removed.

We raised £160M last time around, and we will be in a similar financial state this time out as well.

Trying to summarise where on earth that money can come from is pretty bleak... I've approximated some valuations below, although we'll be in a far weaker negotiating position this time around without the likes of big money sales to bail us out.

Ramsdale - £25M?

THB - £25M?

Dibling - £20M?

Fernandes - £15-20M

Archer (if we're lucky) - £10M?

Onuachu (if we're lucky) - £5M?

Sulemana - £5-10M

ABK - £5-10N

Reckon we could feasibly get somewhere in the realms of £95-115M all in - its unlikely we're realise maximum value for every player we sold, we'd need to cut wages, and we'd need to balance getting them out the door with trying to fill gaps... but all said and done, it leaves the squad pretty threadbare as it is and doubtful we'd have much money to strengthen.

GK - Baz/Macca (Average champ)

FBs - Bree, Taylor, Manning, Suga (Autos level))

CBs - Stephens, Bednarek, Woods, Edwards (Playoff level)

CDMs - Downes, Charles, (Autos level)

CMS - Smallbone, Aribo, (Play off level))

AM/Wingers - Edozie, SAA, Fraser (Top half)

CFs/St - Armstrong, Stewart (Armstrong is playoff level, but zero depth)

That is a squad that would challenge for the playoffs, not the top 2.

 

We won't be in a similar financial state, that's not true, we'll be in a better position as wages are far lower this season, and will be next season due to that.

But I would say the above sales would be fine, the only one I have in there that would make any actual difference is THB - I don't think we'd sell Archer,  he was purchased with an eye on the Championship anyway IMO.

We won't need to raise £160m like last time.

[Farmer Saint]

3 minutes ago, AlexLaw76 said:

still spending high amounts, despite PSR

But they already have players, they have different baselines. We spent, what, £80-90m on mostly lower wage players, with Ramsdale as a one year dart throw as we know he's a saleable asset whatever happens.

Edited 13 hours ago by Farmer Saint