Russell Martin

[franniesTache]

2 hours ago, Whitey Grandad said:

There’s a whole article by James Gheerbrant in The Times today about Russell Martin 

 

 

“Why Gary O’Neil and Russell Martin are prioritising style over results”

I won’t paste the whole article because of copyright issues but here’s a paragraph:

 

 

“And yet, oddly, they have found themselves this season facing similar complaints: an enervating inflexibility, a lack of urgency, playing as if to some ulterior objective besides scoring. Wolves and Southampton have, respectively, the highest and second-highest percentage of backwards passes this season. In the dying seconds of their game against Manchester City, trailing 1-0, and with the 6ft 7in striker Paul Onuachu freshly introduced, Martin’s team opted to take their last free kick short and were still tapping the ball among themselves when the final whistle blew.”

 

 

Totally unacceptable reporting that, I think the club would be well within their rights to re-program these people to be more positive about the ground breaking football that is RUSSBALL, perhaps these journalists need some time in the gulag

[Turkish]

2 hours ago, franniesTache said:

What are you talking about no one wants Martin out, we are all learning to love the million passes that go nowhere, and we NOW understand that football is not about winning, but about statistics.

Anyway i need to go back to my re-education because apparently i didn't quite express my love for Martin hard enough

Winning what? Who wins the sport of Soccerball? No one that's who. They may enjoy short term "success" but come next season everyone is back to zero. When people talk about Johan Cruyff they don't talk about what meaningless trophies he won, they talk about Dutch total football, Cruyff turns he invented. Russell will have a similar legacy. 

[Toussaint]

https://podcasts.apple.com/gb/podcast/up-front/id1683837570?i=1000675898679
 

they talk quite a bit about Saints “style” on this one.

 

It’s the Up Front with Simon Jordan, Graham Souness, Troy Deany and Henry Winter as a special guest for those who are not familiar with the podcast 

[Turkish]

 

From 1.08 in, good discussion about Russball type football.

 

"managers now are all sheep, everyone sees Guardiola moves a defender into midfield and they all copy it" So true

Edited Friday at 19:17 by Turkish

[SaintsBarry74]

About time people outside Saints are seeing through Martin's propaganda football. All this possession for possession's sake with nothing to show for it - we're a laughing stock.

[Disco Stu]

4 hours ago, Toussaint said:

https://podcasts.apple.com/gb/podcast/up-front/id1683837570?i=1000675898679
 

they talk quite a bit about Saints “style” on this one.

 

It’s the Up Front with Simon Jordan, Graham Souness, Troy Deany and Henry Winter as a special guest for those who are not familiar with the podcast 

Interesting point about a lack of voices in teams willing to speak up. I always got the impression clubs of yesteryear had a manager as well as leaders within the playing squad that had the influence to impress onto the manager the sentiment and views of the team. That the playing squad had some influence on how they would like to play whereas now, it feels like players prefer to have their hands held and be told what to do. I can't imagine anyone in our squad going"wait a minute, is this really the way to win a football match?". I'm sure many of them have thought it though.

[NewYorkSaint]

Must be just me then. I counted at least four occasions against Everton, apart from the goal, where, yes, we passed it around the back for a bit, with a certain amount of risk, and then... pow!.... Ramsdale or THB pings it sharply up the middle to Downes or Fernandes, who either turn their man, or flick the ball out to an open full back, powering up the field.  Those moments led to hugely promising attacks. And more than that, they were the exciting payoff of Russball.    If you get used to the idea of a slower, more tactical build, the whole thing is actually hugely enjoyable.

If you rewatch the game, I think we could easily have been a couple goals up by half-time. The fact that we weren't meant that yes, Lady Luck, and a brilliant goalkeeper, were needed in the second half.  But on the balance of play I think we fully deserved the win.  

And I think we'll prob win tomorrow.  

So there. 

 

[saintwbu]

18 minutes ago, NewYorkSaint said:

Must be just me then. I counted at least four occasions against Everton, apart from the goal, where, yes, we passed it around the back for a bit, with a certain amount of risk, and then... pow!.... Ramsdale or THB pings it sharply up the middle to Downes or Fernandes, who either turn their man, or flick the ball out to an open full back, powering up the field.  Those moments led to hugely promising attacks. And more than that, they were the exciting payoff of Russball.    If you get used to the idea of a slower, more tactical build, the whole thing is actually hugely enjoyable.

If you rewatch the game, I think we could easily have been a couple goals up by half-time. The fact that we weren't meant that yes, Lady Luck, and a brilliant goalkeeper, were needed in the second half.  But on the balance of play I think we fully deserved the win.  

And I think we'll prob win tomorrow.  

So there. 

 

There’s also been some complete re-writing of history suggesting our goal against Everton was some abandonment of ‘russball’ and it was a rapid counter attack. Fernandes stopped and played the ball backwards, accompanied by a collective groan that you can hear on the highlights, got it back and waited for all Everton players to get behind the ball and then played it back to THB again. THB then plays the ball forward to Sugawara to put the ball into the box and we score. 

[Whitey Grandad]

1 hour ago, NewYorkSaint said:

Must be just me then. I counted at least four occasions against Everton, apart from the goal, where, yes, we passed it around the back for a bit, with a certain amount of risk, and then... pow!.... Ramsdale or THB pings it sharply up the middle to Downes or Fernandes, who either turn their man, or flick the ball out to an open full back, powering up the field.  Those moments led to hugely promising attacks. And more than that, they were the exciting payoff of Russball.    If you get used to the idea of a slower, more tactical build, the whole thing is actually hugely enjoyable.

If you rewatch the game, I think we could easily have been a couple goals up by half-time. The fact that we weren't meant that yes, Lady Luck, and a brilliant goalkeeper, were needed in the second half.  But on the balance of play I think we fully deserved the win.  

And I think we'll prob win tomorrow.  

So there. 

 

Yep. Just you.

”Exciting payoff” and “slower tactical buildup” don’t go together. It’s pedestrian football.

[FarehamSaintJames]

I listened to Sam Allardyce on UndrTheCosh podcast a little hole back and he talked his tactics (effectively what we see as route one).

He said everyone sees it as boring and direct play, but if you win that first header you immediately being the surrounding players into play and put the pressure on the oppositions third of the pitch, and when overrun suddenly they will panic and be out of position.

Makes sense but still don’t agree it would be fun by any means.

Just fascinating to listen to.

[Whitey Grandad]

17 minutes ago, FarehamSaintJames said:

I listened to Sam Allardyce on UndrTheCosh podcast a little hole back and he talked his tactics (effectively what we see as route one).

He said everyone sees it as boring and direct play, but if you win that first header you immediately being the surrounding players into play and put the pressure on the oppositions third of the pitch, and when overrun suddenly they will panic and be out of position.

Makes sense but still don’t agree it would be fun by any means.

Just fascinating to listen to.

Take a look at “Position of Maximum Opportunity”. 
 

“The term was coined by football manager Charles Hughes, who based his philosophy on statistical analysis. Hughes believed that 87.1% of goals are scored from five passes or fewer“

[chiknsmack]

24 minutes ago, Whitey Grandad said:

Take a look at “Position of Maximum Opportunity”. 
 

“The term was coined by football manager Charles Hughes, who based his philosophy on statistical analysis. Hughes believed that 87.1% of goals are scored from five passes or fewer“

There was a similar reasoning behind the Hasenhüttl/Klopp high press; some large percentage of goals are scored within a small number of seconds of a change of possession, so the goal was to force turnovers high up the pitch and then have a shot ASAP.

[LiberalCommunist]

 There are very few certainties in football. But this weekend, someone’s getting sacked. 

[SWLondon Saint]

10 hours ago, NewYorkSaint said:

If you rewatch the game, I think we could easily have been a couple goals up by half-time. The fact that we weren't meant that yes, Lady Luck, and a brilliant goalkeeper, were needed in the second half.  But on the balance of play I think we fully deserved the win.  

You can think that, but if you look at the xG, Everton created significantly better chances than we did and therefore 'deserved' the win more. It's fine to just to be happy with a lucky win.

[gio1saints]

11 hours ago, NewYorkSaint said:

Must be just me then. I counted at least four occasions against Everton, apart from the goal, where, yes, we passed it around the back for a bit, with a certain amount of risk, and then... pow!.... Ramsdale or THB pings it sharply up the middle to Downes or Fernandes, who either turn their man, or flick the ball out to an open full back, powering up the field.  Those moments led to hugely promising attacks. And more than that, they were the exciting payoff of Russball.    If you get used to the idea of a slower, more tactical build, the whole thing is actually hugely enjoyable.

If you rewatch the game, I think we could easily have been a couple goals up by half-time. The fact that we weren't meant that yes, Lady Luck, and a brilliant goalkeeper, were needed in the second half.  But on the balance of play I think we fully deserved the win.  

And I think we'll prob win tomorrow.  

So there. 

 

It’s not just you. 😁. And it’s been most matches actually. We just not got the recipe right. Yet. Maybe we won’t ever - but Saints under RM will keep trying despite the wailing. 

PS. Please don’t tell the others because it upsets them as they think players only go on the pitch to massage Russells’s ego ~ not to actually win matches. 🤩. True.

To be fair, All the players say it as well.

Theres tons of quotes from these players saying the same thing “ I only joined because Russ told me he wanted a Trump sized ego and said I was the player that could help him get there “ or “ when Russ called me and said how do I feel about making him the least successful most overrated Manager in Saints history I leapt at the chance”.
 

But I suppose the best one was from Ramsdale “ Russ told me that my lower back would be strengthened beyond belief the number of times I’d have to bend over and pick up the ball from the back of my net, that clinched it for me, I’ve always had lower back issues and this, finally, was someone who offered a professional and rational way to get better”. 😇

Edited Saturday at 09:48 by gio1saints

[CB Fry]

9 hours ago, Whitey Grandad said:

Take a look at “Position of Maximum Opportunity”. 
 

“The term was coined by football manager Charles Hughes, who based his philosophy on statistical analysis. Hughes believed that 87.1% of goals are scored from five passes or fewer“

That was the fundamental text for the Graham Taylor England era.

Get it in the fucking mixer.

 

[StrangelyBrown]

59 minutes ago, gio1saints said:

It’s not just you. 😁. And it’s been most matches actually. We just not got the recipe right. Yet. Maybe we won’t ever - but Saints under RM will keep trying despite the wailing. 

PS. Please don’t tell the others because it upsets them as they think players only go on the pitch to massage Russells’s ego ~ not to actually win matches. 🤩. True.

To be fair, All the players say it as well.

Theres tons of quotes from these players saying the same thing “ I only joined because Russ told me he wanted a Trump sized ego and said I was the player that could help him get there “ or “ when Russ called me and said how do I feel about making him the least successful most overrated Manager in Saints history I leapt at the chance”.
 

But I suppose the best one was from Ramsdale “ Russ told me that my lower back would be strengthened beyond belief the number of times I’d have to bend over and pick up the ball from the back of my net, that clinched it for me, I’ve always had lower back issues and this, finally, was someone who offered a professional and rational way to get better”. 😇

Give it a rest Gio.

Perhaps a lot of the dissenters just don't enjoy the football - I certainly don't. I completely understand what we are trying to do, but sadly we don't have the quality to execute it well in the premier league which leads to excessive amounts of time passing the ball sideways and backwards waiting for mistakes that don't come easily with premier league players.

You might like it and others might too, but it doesn't mean that all of the people who think it is tedious also think that "players only go to massage Russ' ego".

You need to give up this condescending nonsense - it really is very tiresome.

[gio1saints]

2 minutes ago, StrangelyBrown said:

Give it a rest Gio.

Perhaps a lot of the dissenters just don't enjoy the football - I certainly don't. I completely understand what we are trying to do, but sadly we don't have the quality to execute it well in the premier league which leads to excessive amounts of time passing the ball sideways and backwards waiting for mistakes that don't come easily with premier league players.

You might like it and others might too, but it doesn't mean that all of the people who think it is tedious also think that "players only go to massage Russ' ego".

You need to give up this condescending nonsense - it really is very tiresome.

Detecting sense of humour failure. 

[Lee On Solent Saint]

50 minutes ago, gio1saints said:

Detecting sense of humour failure. 

Is there a joke in there somewhere? Must have missed it.

[Lee On Solent Saint]

Replies and comments on this thread getting removed seems to be a common occurence these days. I thought this was supposed to be a discussion board. 

[Mr X]

4 hours ago, LiberalCommunist said:

 There are very few certainties in football. But this weekend, someone’s getting sacked. 

Likely the wolves manager then as we've tied our allegiance to Martin 

[Lighthouse]

1 hour ago, Lee On Solent Saint said:

Replies and comments on this thread getting removed seems to be a common occurence these days. I thought this was supposed to be a discussion board. 

It’s a Saints forum for discussing Southampton football issues. If you wish to discuss Gio, I suggest you PM him directly as very few other people want to read about him.

[egg]

12 minutes ago, Lighthouse said:

It’s a Saints forum for discussing Southampton football issues. If you wish to discuss Gio, I suggest you PM him directly as very few other people want to read about him.

Will you be extending this "subject not people" approach to the lounge as well? 

[egg]

4 hours ago, LiberalCommunist said:

 There are very few certainties in football. But this weekend, someone’s getting sacked. 

I can't imagine it'll be RM, whatever the outcome. I can't imagine Wolves will be so benevolent if we can manage a win. 

[Ken Tone]

15 hours ago, Disco Stu said:

Interesting point about a lack of voices in teams willing to speak up. I always got the impression clubs of yesteryear had a manager as well as leaders within the playing squad that had the influence to impress onto the manager the sentiment and views of the team. That the playing squad had some influence on how they would like to play whereas now, it feels like players prefer to have their hands held and be told what to do. I can't imagine anyone in our squad going"wait a minute, is this really the way to win a football match?". I'm sure many of them have thought it though.

Don't think managers like Clough, Feguson etc allowed much disagreement in the players. 

Clough said something like if a player disagrees with me, we have a frank and open discussion .....and then we agree that I'm right. 

[Lee On Solent Saint]

22 minutes ago, Lighthouse said:

It’s a Saints forum for discussing Southampton football issues. If you wish to discuss Gio, I suggest you PM him directly as very few other people want to read about him.

Hardly said anything offensive, just questioned where the joke was in his supposed "funny" post. A few posters get dog shit abuse in other rooms/threads, but I guess that's perfectly ok depending on who you are and who is dishing out the said dog shit abuse?

[Charlie Wayman]

15 hours ago, SaintsBarry74 said:

About time people outside Saints are seeing through Martin's propaganda football. All this possession for possession's sake with nothing to show for it - we're a laughing stock.

No we're not, only in your mind.

[Whitey Grandad]

3 minutes ago, Charlie Wayman said:

No we're not, only in your mind.

More pity than laughter I believe.

[vectraman]

On 08/11/2024 at 13:50, Turkish said:

Winning what? Who wins the sport of Soccerball? No one that's who. They may enjoy short term "success" but come next season everyone is back to zero. When people talk about Johan Cruyff they don't talk about what meaningless trophies he won, they talk about Dutch total football,

Quote

 

Cruyff turns he invented. Russell will have a similar legacy. 

I’m sure the “Russell turn” will become a household footballing term soon enough. Meaning - “When a player receives a pass and then immediately plays it backwards towards his own goal”

For special treats if you are lucky enough to witness three Russell turns in succession, you’ll have witnessed what is collectively known as “ A bravery”.

In a Peter Drury voice:-  “Oh look, Southampton have taken the corner, and in just a bravery of Russell turns the ball is back with Aaron Ramsdale on the edge of his area, simply magnificent football…”

[Turkish]

7 minutes ago, vectraman said:

I’m sure the “Russell turn” will become a household footballing term soon enough. Meaning - “When a player receives a pass and then immediately plays it backwards towards his own goal”

For special treats if you are lucky enough to witness three Russell turns in succession, you’ll have witnessed what is collectively known as “ A bravery”.

In a Peter Drury voice:-  “Oh look, Southampton have taken the corner, and in just a bravery of Russell turns the ball is back with Aaron Ramsdale on the edge of his area, simply magnificent football…”

You don’t need to beat players that’s so 1990s with pacy winger! Get the ball, recycle it, if a team doesn’t get a touch for 5 minutes that a real victory. 

[OldNick]

58 minutes ago, vectraman said:

 

In a Peter Drury voice:-  “Oh look, Southampton have taken the corner, and in just a bravery of Russell turns the ball is back with Aaron Ramsdale on the edge of his area, simply magnificent football…”

If it is Drury as the commentator he will scream 'Martin' as the ball limply rolls along the ground

[Oldandtired]

2 hours ago, Charlie Wayman said:

 

2 hours ago, Lighthouse said:

It’s a Saints forum for discussing Southampton football issues. If you wish to discuss Gio, I suggest you PM him directly as very few other people want to read about him.

Thought about becoming a PL referee? Bias seems to be a prerequisite for them too.

Edited Saturday at 16:21 by Oldandtired

[tdmickey3]

Just fuck off and take your possession based shit with you

[SNSUN]

So... New contract for the gaffer? 

[Disco Stu]

I don't understand why he's still here. Is the plan to get relegated with Martin, lose all our best players and then arrogantly assume we'll get promoted again? Even if, somehow, we were to get promoted, is the plan to let Martin continue to inflict his philosophy on us and relegate us again?

He's not the long term solution if the ambition is to establish ourselves in this league. The only conclusion I can come to is that's not the ambition.

[Lighthouse]

2 hours ago, Lee On Solent Saint said:

Hardly said anything offensive, just questioned where the joke was in his supposed "funny" post. A few posters get dog shit abuse in other rooms/threads, but I guess that's perfectly ok depending on who you are and who is dishing out the said dog shit abuse?

Fine, I wont bother any more. Just don't start bleating about 'useless moderators' when you end up with a thread which is three pages of Gio or some other internet 'personality'.

[Weston Super Saint]

2 minutes ago, Lighthouse said:

Fine, I wont bother any more. Just don't start bleating about 'useless moderators' when you end up with a thread which is three pages of Gio or some other internet 'personality'.

That's just one post isn't it?

[Wiggles31]

Get rid for the love of god. Get some pace and purpose back into the side. 

[AlexLaw76]

Please, ffs, just leave the club....

[Osvaldorama]

Thanks for Wembley Russ. 
 

Times up. 

[Harry_SFC]

Please get rid of him 

[Oldandtired]

4 minutes ago, Harry_SFC said:

Please get rid of him 

Who? Gio? 
 

I'm in .

[sambosa75]

Time for a change.  Couldn’t even trouble the opposition keeper once in a relegation 6 pointer.

[SambaMaverick]

I've never liked the guy, I'm highly compromised

But surely, even if we are already doomed, it can't go on like this?

[skintsaint]

[Tommy]

71% possession and only 1 shot on goal is unforgivable. If he won’t change then there club needs to make a change.

[trousers]

I actually feel a tad sorry for Russ this evening. Whilst we're weren't great (especially in the second half), poor refereeing decisions influenced the outcome. That said, if he and the club parted ways before out next game then I wouldn't be shedding too many tears...

[Toussaint]

I can’t recall such a lame , feeble performance. 

[Bad Wolf]

13 minutes ago, AlexLaw76 said:

Please, ffs, just leave the club....

I wouldn't do that. You wouldn't do that and neither would anyone else. Stop this crap. If we want him gone the onus is on the club to sack him.

[CB Fry]

Should have been sacked two international breaks ago.