Russell Martin

[LiberalCommunist]

New criticism for RM alert!

id prefer him to be more cagey and less honest in the presser. It was borderline embarrassing. Thanking everybody-even down to the tea lady-after the first win is cringeworthy. Continuing to admit we are lucky to have signed Ramsdale. We know. Get over it. We have a job to do. Citing mental health when referencing the bad run. You are a premier league manager. It says it on the contract. This was not an audition, do your job. I thought he was waiting for a standing ovation from the press at one stage. 

So next week, whatever the result. Knock out some one liners. Keep the platitudes to a minimum and build some momentum. Help me to believe you’ve got this. 

[Saint86]

16 hours ago, Saint_clark said:

Today feels in spite of him. The goal we scored was the antithesis of how he wants to play.

We played like this last season, difference was confidence levels and relative ability of the teams. I've said it elsewhere, but dibling and fernandes are massive for us as they're the two players than can genuinely deliver attacking play like Martin wants at this level - sugawara and kwp as well. We're a totally different team when they're all on the pitch. Lallana as well to a lesser extent. 

[Sheaf Saint]

1 minute ago, Saint86 said:

We played like this last season, difference was confidence levels and relative ability of the teams. I've said it elsewhere, but dibling and fernandes are massive for us as they're the two players than can genuinely deliver attacking play like Martin wants at this level - sugawara and kwp as well. We're a totally different team when they're all on the pitch. Lallana as well to a lesser extent. 

Which makes RM's constant tinkering with the starting lineup even more baffling.

[Saint86]

17 minutes ago, Sheaf Saint said:

Which makes RM's constant tinkering with the starting lineup even more baffling.

Dibling is 18 having played circa 10games of men's football, lallana is 36(?}... For obvious reasons we won't be getting 90min out of either of them regularly. The squad depth / quality will need to be improved on January specifically in the attacking areas if we're to have any serious chance of staying up playing like this. 

[Pamplemousse]

16 hours ago, Saint_clark said:

Today feels in spite of him. The goal we scored was the antithesis of how he wants to play.

Knew there would be these types of moronic comments.

So when we don't win it's always his fault, but when we do win he has nothing to do with it. Right.

 

Edited November 3 by Pamplemousse

[Daft Kerplunk]

14 minutes ago, Pamplemousse said:

Knew there would be these types of moronic comments.

So when we don't win it's always his fault, but when we do win he has nothing to do with it. Right.

 

Unlike many/most other sports, football is a game where a team can still win despite being crap. Or as the case, mostly just boring to watch. Grateful for a win but under no illusions that much more is needed to have any chance of staying up. 

[saintwbu]

45 minutes ago, Sheaf Saint said:

Which makes RM's constant tinkering with the starting lineup even more baffling.

I’d say since the Bournemouth disaster he’s pretty much settled on his best 11, with a couple of tweaks depending on fitness/availability. Taking out Bournemouth, we’ve actually played pretty well from Ipswich onwards, but people ignore it because the results don’t reflect it - yesterday the result arrives and now it’s all about the performance instead 🤷‍♂️

[Gingeletiss]

For those of you, bigging up RM for this win, know this, if the Everton effort that hit the crossbar a few short minutes before our goal, had gone in, there was no way we would of come back from it. How some of you struggle with the conception that this style of football is crap, is beyond me. Like others, I am in my 70’s, I have seen some really crap football at the Dell over the years, and some great, but this is boring as bat shit football.

[Saint_clark]

41 minutes ago, Pamplemousse said:

Knew there would be these types of moronic comments.

So when we don't win it's always his fault, but when we do win he has nothing to do with it. Right.

 

Exactly.

[Lee On Solent Saint]

It was a game we could easily have lost on another day. Ramsdale was the difference in the end. The save from Keane was top drawer, even then we had a huge slice of luck with the ball deflecting off Ramsdale and onto the post via Keane again. Another day, that goes in because of the deflection. Credit to Armstrong, was a tidy finish from a difficult chance, he misses easier ones. All in all a welcome three points, but such as the fine margins are, we could easily be sat here talking about another defeat. 

[Fitzhugh Fella]

58 minutes ago, Pamplemousse said:

Knew there would be these types of moronic comments.

So when we don't win it's always his fault, but when we do win he has nothing to do with it. Right.

 

It's not moronic as many leaving the stadium were saying exactly the same. One slightly fortuitous win does not change the fact Russell Martin's style of football is very unpopular with the large majority of fans who find it, dull, tedious uninspiring and largely unproductive. Yes he has a tough job to compete in a skewed environment and yes - good for him he has made his choice as to what tactics he thinks is the club's best chance to get results, but I and many others think, he is wrong and his system flawed. If we are going to go down I would rather do it with all guns blazing rather a series of monotonous meaningless sideways or backwards passing triangles. The stats and points total speak for themselves.

We can't keep flip flopping because of 1, somewhat unconvincing, win. 

[Fabrice29]

28 minutes ago, Lee On Solent Saint said:

It was a game we could easily have lost on another day. Ramsdale was the difference in the end. The save from Keane was top drawer, even then we had a huge slice of luck with the ball deflecting off Ramsdale and onto the post via Keane again. Another day, that goes in because of the deflection. Credit to Armstrong, was a tidy finish from a difficult chance, he misses easier ones. All in all a welcome three points, but such as the fine margins are, we could easily be sat here talking about another defeat. 

We could have been sat here talking about 2 previous home wins if the fine margins went our way previously. That’s the ruthlessness of this league and combine that with the fact that we’re the worst team in it on paper based on the last 2 seasons, we’re going to have to accept that until we get a striker or proper defender that can decide games on their own, fine margins will be a big factor and we’ll have to stick with them each time they fall against us. 

[Fabrice29]

7 minutes ago, Fitzhugh Fella said:

It's not moronic as many leaving the stadium were saying exactly the same. One slightly fortuitous win does not change the fact Russell Martin's style of football is very unpopular with the large majority of fans who find it, dull, tedious uninspiring and largely unproductive. Yes he has a tough job to compete in a skewed environment and yes - good for him he has made his choice as to what tactics he thinks is the club's best chance to get results, but I and many others think, he is wrong and his system flawed. If we are going to go down I would rather do it with all guns blazing rather a series of monotonous meaningless sideways or backwards passing triangles. The stats and points total speak for themselves.

We can't keep flip flopping because of 1, somewhat unconvincing, win. 

We literally went down attempting all guns blazing stuff 2 seasons ago. And guess what…it was crap, it didn’t feel like we were all guns blazing because we were so bad at it, there’s no guarantee that ‘all guns glazing’ translates into results or football you would enjoy. What is more likely is you’ll see a squad that’s largely physically out of its depth get rolled over completely and torn apart even more than we do now. Last year we scored a lot of goals, that isn’t going to translate because the league is ridiculously tough and ruthless at both ends, but you need to stick with them as the team navigates it. I’d much rather us try and bait teams in and fuck it up ourselves than attempt to match teams for speed and tempo and get beat up every week.

You don’t have to go if you’re not enjoying it. It’s beyond bizarre people who have been moaning for over a year now continue to go and then moan again. 

[Lee On Solent Saint]

16 minutes ago, Fabrice29 said:

We could have been sat here talking about 2 previous home wins if the fine margins went our way previously. That’s the ruthlessness of this league and combine that with the fact that we’re the worst team in it on paper based on the last 2 seasons, we’re going to have to accept that until we get a striker or proper defender that can decide games on their own, fine margins will be a big factor and we’ll have to stick with them each time they fall against us. 

Not really sure fine margins were in play against Leicester. That defeat was down to Martin and his bizarre subs. 

[Fabrice29]

3 minutes ago, Lee On Solent Saint said:

Not really sure fine margins were in play against Leicester. That defeat was down to Martin and his bizarre subs. 

Martin and his team selection got us two nil up then presumably, if that’s the way it works?

Or maybe the defeat was because we went down to 10 men, got run over physically and in the final moments the ref went to blow his whistle, they won a corner instead and smashed a ball from the edge of the box under the bar rather than into it like yesterday. Fine margins.

[Bobsmith]

Its great that we've won. I just don't know whether this is like the Nathan Jones moment against Manchester City, which gives Martin a stay of execution and by the time he does go, it will be too late to stay up. I could somewhat accept Martin's blunt style of play, if he didn't continually pick his ineffectual best mates like Stephens. He wasn't deemed good enough by Ralph which is why we brought in ABK, and he's not even getting a game. Do we even know what's happened to Taylor, arguably our best natural left back?

Edited November 3 by Bobsmith

[Lee On Solent Saint]

2 minutes ago, Fabrice29 said:

Martin and his team selection got us two nil up then presumably, if that’s the way it works?

Or maybe the defeat was because we went down to 10 men, got run over physically and in the final moments the ref went to blow his whistle, they won a corner instead and smashed a ball from the edge of the box under the bar rather than into it like yesterday. Fine margins.

No. It was the subs and the in game management that cost us that. If Fraser doesn't come on, he's not in a position to committ the tug back on Vardy. Presumbly you can grasp that? I'd be willing to bet that Taylor, if he had come on like he should, would not have been in that situation. You can piss and moan about the ref as much as you like, but its only hiding behind the inept decision making in that game. 

[Whitey Grandad]

10 minutes ago, Fabrice29 said:

Martin and his team selection got us two nil up then presumably, if that’s the way it works?

Or maybe the defeat was because we went down to 10 men, got run over physically and in the final moments the ref went to blow his whistle, they won a corner instead and smashed a ball from the edge of the box under the bar rather than into it like yesterday. Fine margins.

No, that’s not the way it works.

You can’t cherry pick your moments in a game. Martin is responsible for the way we defend (?) corners and he got that spectacularly wrong in both games. 
 

I wasn’t smashed under the bar, as you put it. It was driven down at the foot of the post.

[Fabrice29]

10 minutes ago, Whitey Grandad said:

No, that’s not the way it works.

You can’t cherry pick your moments in a game. Martin is responsible for the way we defend (?) corners and he got that spectacularly wrong in both games. 
 

I wasn’t smashed under the bar, as you put it. It was driven down at the foot of the post.

Did it go in the net and therefore under the bar? 

[Fabrice29]

14 minutes ago, Lee On Solent Saint said:

No. It was the subs and the in game management that cost us that. If Fraser doesn't come on, he's not in a position to committ the tug back on Vardy. Presumbly you can grasp that? I'd be willing to bet that Taylor, if he had come on like he should, would not have been in that situation. You can piss and moan about the ref as much as you like, but its only hiding behind the inept decision making in that game. 

Fraser coming on isn’t a walking red card ffs 😂 Taylor also got rinsed by their lad later in the game which people seem to forget. It’s so utterly bizarre that people anyone in their right mind can say ‘sub had bad moment so if sub didn’t happen we’d have won’. Anyway, the tactical decisions of the game isn’t the point I was making nor one I wanted to discuss. The wider point was clear and stands either way, that sometimes in the PL things will go for you and sometimes they won’t. Being better in the big moments is what will be key for us this season. Yesterday we were, we wilted for whatever reason against Leicester and Ipswich again was another last kick of the game going against us. That’s the game, it’s to be expected and happens a lot in this league not just us. We need to improve our management of games better at times obviously and be ruthless in both boxes but shit will happen like that, because that’s the league but it doesn’t make RM the messiah or devil either way.

[Lee On Solent Saint]

7 minutes ago, Fabrice29 said:

Fraser coming on isn’t a walking red card ffs 😂 Taylor also got rinsed by their lad later in the game which people seem to forget. It’s so utterly bizarre that people anyone in their right mind can say ‘sub had bad moment so if sub didn’t happen we’d have won’. Anyway, the tactical decisions of the game isn’t the point I was making nor one I wanted to discuss. The wider point was clear and stands either way, that sometimes in the PL things will go for you and sometimes they won’t. Being better in the big moments is what will be key for us this season. Yesterday we were, we wilted for whatever reason against Leicester and Ipswich again was another last kick of the game going against us. That’s the game, it’s to be expected and happens a lot in this league not just us. We need to improve our management of games better at times obviously and be ruthless in both boxes but shit will happen like that, because that’s the league but it doesn’t make RM the messiah or devil either way.

The point is, if Fraser doesn't come on, the offence for the penalty doesn't happen. Taylor was the most obvious sub in that game. Am not suggesting he is a walking red card, so no idea where you get that from. Am not sure what point you are trying to make, a sub can have a bad moment, a sub can score an own goal so its pretty likely that a sub can influence a game just as much as a starter can. The only reason we wilited against Leicester was because of Martin's in game management, a fact that was largely universally agreed with on the match thread, apart from the Martin fanboys that is. 

[Whitey Grandad]

26 minutes ago, Fabrice29 said:

Did it go in the net and therefore under the bar? 

It was nowhere near the bar, and you know full well that it wasn’t. You can’t wriggle out of this one 😊

[Whitey Grandad]

21 minutes ago, Fabrice29 said:

Fraser coming on isn’t a walking red card ffs 😂 Taylor also got rinsed by their lad later in the game which people seem to forget. It’s so utterly bizarre that people anyone in their right mind can say ‘sub had bad moment so if sub didn’t happen we’d have won’. Anyway, the tactical decisions of the game isn’t the point I was making nor one I wanted to discuss. The wider point was clear and stands either way, that sometimes in the PL things will go for you and sometimes they won’t. Being better in the big moments is what will be key for us this season. Yesterday we were, we wilted for whatever reason against Leicester and Ipswich again was another last kick of the game going against us. That’s the game, it’s to be expected and happens a lot in this league not just us. We need to improve our management of games better at times obviously and be ruthless in both boxes but shit will happen like that, because that’s the league but it doesn’t make RM the messiah or devil either way.

Yes, the game is about fine moments. The important thing is to load the dice and maximise your chances of scoring whilst minimising your chances of conceding.

Things like not packing your goal area at corners and marking the edge of your box for example.

[Wsaint]

2 hours ago, Lee On Solent Saint said:

It was a game we could easily have lost on another day. Ramsdale was the difference in the end. The save from Keane was top drawer, even then we had a huge slice of luck with the ball deflecting off Ramsdale and onto the post via Keane again. Another day, that goes in because of the deflection. Credit to Armstrong, was a tidy finish from a difficult chance, he misses easier ones. All in all a welcome three points, but such as the fine margins are, we could easily be sat here talking about another defeat. 

Could be, but we could have won the Ipswich game if not for bad luck, could have had a draw or better at Newcastle without that error. That's how it goes. We won, I'm going to enjoy that, which is what some others on here should try to do. Gunna be a long old season for most if they can't see past their dislike of the manager to enjoy a win for the team they claim to support. (Last bit not meant for you in particular)

[Holmes_and_Watson]

4 hours ago, LiberalCommunist said:

New criticism for RM alert!

id prefer him to be more cagey and less honest in the presser. It was borderline embarrassing. Thanking everybody-even down to the tea lady-after the first win is cringeworthy. Continuing to admit we are lucky to have signed Ramsdale. We know. Get over it. We have a job to do. Citing mental health when referencing the bad run. You are a premier league manager. It says it on the contract. This was not an audition, do your job. I thought he was waiting for a standing ovation from the press at one stage. 

So next week, whatever the result. Knock out some one liners. Keep the platitudes to a minimum and build some momentum. Help me to believe you’ve got this. 

I've only listened to the Blackmore interview. He did say that "it wasn't enough" as to where we are.

I'd like to think he's giving praise for everyone pulling together despite results.

But behind the scenes, and without being a different person which I'm sure he's not, making sure everyone knows that Ipswich, Leicester and Everton at home were the minimum of games we'd be wanting to get points from. Then helping to set those standards including in his own tactical approach.

He's been around the PL as a player to hopefully not get dazzled by getting a win in it.

[swannymere]

On 02/11/2024 at 02:09, Kermitzasaint said:

That's like saying my last few gfs cheated so I'm OK with my new one doing it now. 

You should have higher self esteem and kick her out.

[Lee On Solent Saint]

41 minutes ago, Wsaint said:

Could be, but we could have won the Ipswich game if not for bad luck, could have had a draw or better at Newcastle without that error. That's how it goes. We won, I'm going to enjoy that, which is what some others on here should try to do. Gunna be a long old season for most if they can't see past their dislike of the manager to enjoy a win for the team they claim to support. (Last bit not meant for you in particular)

Yep, I'll enjoy the win. Good to finally get one, however it came about. The real acid test will come at Wolves next week, huge game for both teams. I hate the term relegation six pointer, but I guess that is what it is. 

[Wsaint]

3 minutes ago, Lee On Solent Saint said:

Yep, I'll enjoy the win. Good to finally get one, however it came about. The real acid test will come at Wolves next week, huge game for both teams. I hate the term relegation six pointer, but I guess that is what it is. 

Aye should be an interesting one. You'd hope this can be the start of something, although it's saints so we'll probably fuck it up 😂

[Lord Duckhunter]

Finally Lego got his subs right and affected the game, but make no mistake the jury is still out. This boring football just doesn’t generate enough chances & leaves Archer too isolated. This wasn’t vindication of Russball in any way. 

Edited November 3 by Lord Duckhunter

[stknowle]

4 hours ago, Fabrice29 said:

We literally went down attempting all guns blazing stuff 2 seasons ago. And guess what…it was crap, it didn’t feel like we were all guns blazing because we were so bad at it, there’s no guarantee that ‘all guns glazing’ translates into results or football you would enjoy. What is more likely is you’ll see a squad that’s largely physically out of its depth get rolled over completely and torn apart even more than we do now. Last year we scored a lot of goals, that isn’t going to translate because the league is ridiculously tough and ruthless at both ends, but you need to stick with them as the team navigates it. I’d much rather us try and bait teams in and fuck it up ourselves than attempt to match teams for speed and tempo and get beat up every week.

You don’t have to go if you’re not enjoying it. It’s beyond bizarre people who have been moaning for over a year now continue to go and then moan again. 

Jones and Selles’ football was ‘all guns blazing stuff’. Blimey.

[bugenhagen]

57 minutes ago, stknowle said:

Jones and Selles’ football was ‘all guns blazing stuff’. Blimey.

It was front footed and agressive... no?😉

 

[tdmickey3]

1 fortunate win changes nothing.

Normal service (defeat) will most likely be resumed next week.

 

[Mr X]

3 hours ago, Lee On Solent Saint said:

Yep, I'll enjoy the win. Good to finally get one, however it came about. The real acid test will come at Wolves next week, huge game for both teams. I hate the term relegation six pointer, but I guess that is what it is. 

Too right it's a relegation 6 pointer 

[Weston Super Saint]

1 hour ago, stknowle said:

Jones and Selles’ football was ‘all guns blazing stuff’. Blimey.

I think fabreeze watches completely different matches to the rest of the world.

[Badger]

1 hour ago, stknowle said:

Jones and Selles’ football was ‘all guns blazing stuff’. Blimey.

Talk about re-writing of history...

[Holmes_and_Watson]

1 hour ago, stknowle said:

Jones and Selles’ football was ‘all guns blazing stuff’. Blimey.

Who can forget the "over the top, lads!" shouted by Nathan as the team kicked off?

Or that lone gun, Alcaraz, blazing forward into enemy territory, with no support, but a hope in his heart and a song on his lips, under Ruben?

Heady days.

[Wsaint]

26 minutes ago, tdmickey3 said:

1 fortunate win changes nothing.

Normal service (defeat) will most likely be resumed next week.

 

Ray of sunshine aren't you 😂

[Oh no Mick Mills]

43 minutes ago, tdmickey3 said:

1 fortunate win changes nothing.

Normal service (defeat) will most likely be resumed next week.

 

You genuinely sound gutted we won mate.

[ErwinK1961]

54 minutes ago, tdmickey3 said:

1 fortunate win changes nothing.

Normal service (defeat) will most likely be resumed next week.

 

[Holmes_and_Watson]

Should we win against Wolves, will the club pull the plug? If they do, it must be because they've already found a replacement.

Looking at some pluses

Martin would then look to 2 wins, a draw he put down to someone not following instructions, a smattering of other individual errors, giving Pep a little unease towards the end of the City game, an injury and doubling up failing vs Leicester, being 1 up vs Arsenal and various tweaks within his system as we've gone on. Presumably, the club's data analysis would be backing him up (as long as the club supported the approach).

[Fabrice29]

1 hour ago, stknowle said:

Jones and Selles’ football was ‘all guns blazing stuff’. Blimey.

Did you not read the word "attempting" or did you deliberately ignore it?

All 3 of our managers that season wanted to play direct quick football, not one of them convinced the players and we became incredibly bad because there was little quality, little belief and little idea how to implement it successfully. We ended up with a pretty average squad out of ideas and confidence and nobody enjoyed it. Whatever your issues with the football on show, the players are quite clearly much more invested in it, it's delivered success (albeit it at a lower level) and there's a plan that is attempting to be implement by all concerned. It's a stark difference to the clueless approach we had that season.

[Saint Gifford]

I admire him for sticking to his own plan and vision. 

Everton are hardly competition the last few seasons.

For me a great manager is someone that has a belief and implements and sticks with it. 

But you really have to adapt and change to suit the environment. 

I have no idea who is next, but won’t stay up with RM. 

Then i guess look at the likes of West Ham, do we want that……..

 

24 minutes ago, Fabrice29 said:

Did you not read the word "attempting" or did you deliberately ignore it?

All 3 of our managers that season wanted to play direct quick football, not one of them convinced the players and we became incredibly bad because there was little quality, little belief and little idea how to implement it successfully. We ended up with a pretty average squad out of ideas and confidence and nobody enjoyed it. Whatever your issues with the football on show, the players are quite clearly much more invested in it, it's delivered success (albeit it at a lower level) and there's a plan that is attempting to be implement by all concerned. It's a stark difference to the clueless approach we had that season.

t

[stknowle]

35 minutes ago, Fabrice29 said:

Did you not read the word "attempting" or did you deliberately ignore it?

All 3 of our managers that season wanted to play direct quick football, not one of them convinced the players and we became incredibly bad because there was little quality, little belief and little idea how to implement it successfully. We ended up with a pretty average squad out of ideas and confidence and nobody enjoyed it. Whatever your issues with the football on show, the players are quite clearly much more invested in it, it's delivered success (albeit it at a lower level) and there's a plan that is attempting to be implement by all concerned. It's a stark difference to the clueless approach we had that season.

OH SORRY! I did miss the word “attempting” and it’s all clear now. Jones and Selles were both ATTEMPTING to play ALL GUNS BLAZING football. Blimey.

[Whitey Grandad]

12 minutes ago, stknowle said:

OH SORRY! I did miss the word “attempting” and it’s all clear now. Jones and Selles were both ATTEMPTING to play ALL GUNS BLAZING football. Blimey.

Yes, it was a very trying time all round.

[bugenhagen]

42 minutes ago, Fabrice29 said:

Did you not read the word "attempting" or did you deliberately ignore it?

All 3 of our managers that season wanted to play direct quick football, not one of them convinced the players and we became incredibly bad because there was little quality, little belief and little idea how to implement it successfully. We ended up with a pretty average squad out of ideas and confidence and nobody enjoyed it. Whatever your issues with the football on show, the players are quite clearly much more invested in it, it's delivered success (albeit it at a lower level) and there's a plan that is attempting to be implement by all concerned. It's a stark difference to the clueless approach we had that season.

This was just as horrible and painful to watch as slow and ineffective Russball, in my opinion... maybe even worse.

[Saint in Paradise]

So the season still has a max of 84 points to play for. Snag is RM has only won ( scrapped? ) 4 points from a possible 30.

Seeing as how some love stats that very approx equates to about a final total of 14 or 15 points for the season?

However when you add all the extra points awarded for winning the possession percentage in games and a top 10 final

position is odds on Yay!

 

 

 

No I haven't been drinking...it's only 07.45 Monday morning here and I am fed up.

Edited November 3 by Saint in Paradise

[lambtiss]

9 minutes ago, bugenhagen said:

This was just as horrible and painful to watch as slow and ineffective Russball, in my opinion... maybe even worse.

Worse, in my opinion.

[Tommy]

When Ruud Van Nistlerooy gets dumped by Man Utd next week we should look at him as an option if they pull the trigger on Martin. Already got that team playing much better football

 

 

[InvictaSaint]

30 minutes ago, Tommy said:

When Ruud Van Nistlerooy gets dumped by Man Utd next week we should look at him as an option if they pull the trigger on Martin. Already got that team playing much better football

 

 

Blimey. That Ruben Selles has done well for himself. 

[Saint86]

12 hours ago, Lee On Solent Saint said:

No. It was the subs and the in game management that cost us that. If Fraser doesn't come on, he's not in a position to committ the tug back on Vardy. Presumbly you can grasp that? I'd be willing to bet that Taylor, if he had come on like he should, would not have been in that situation. You can piss and moan about the ref as much as you like, but its only hiding behind the inept decision making in that game. 

Playing devils advocate, if the more attacking subs don't come on, we don't open up the game and get what should have been a blatant penalty putting us 3-1 up... Instead a couple of minutes later we're 2-2 and with 10men... mostly thanks to insanely inconsistent (best case and being nice) Video Assistant refereeing (most would call it openly biased as a minimum). Don't get me wrong, i am one of the ones that bemoaned those subs post match - but i can only moan about it because we didn't get the pen and instead got shafted. Had the pen been given, we probably would be here saying it was a good performance, rather than having people pointing to it as a bad defeat. As others have said, its fine margins. It certainly feels like there are some in the fanbase that can't enjoy the win because they refused to step back from wanting martin gone for even a few minutes.

And tbh on the set piece front (thinking Ipswich), we've looked pretty solid from most corners and set pieces despite immense pressure at times. The two goals that have cost us (Leicester and Ipswich) were both because of player errors where someone didn't do their job and cover/close down out side of the box. The result is we all sit here and lambast Martin for awful defensive set up on corners... but actually having seen us do that setup most games now, we actually look very solid with it generally. Reality is its a championship squad and a championship manager - they need time to step up... whether they can is very much a doubt... but they've got the first win now, they beat stoke as well, there is a bit of momentum there. I watch wolves palace the other night, they are utterly abysmal defensively and wasteful up front - they are there for the taking even if its going to be a low standard nerve biting mess of a game... and win that and things don't look anywhere near as glum.

And get that the above is looking for the positives (such as they are) and hoping we improve and get a bit more luck - but its evident Martin isn't going anywhere... so whilst he (and the players) are trying, you may as well try to find something to support and enjoy in being a saints fan - Its not all going to be back to back promotions, top 10 prem finishes, and flirts with europe. Think some forget perennially being in the relegation zone and pulling off last minute escapes was our typical MO for quite a few seasons.

Edited November 4 by Saint86