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LegalEagle

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Weston Super Saint

Weston Super Saint

Posted
Posted
2 hours ago, Farmer Saint said:

Exactly - my expectations for this season were rock bottom due to the state of the squad post relegation, and the lack of business we could do this Summer due to PSR. I'm not overly unhappy, because this is what I expected (and predicted TBF).

Source?

I thought we were one of the highest spenders?

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OnceaSaintalwaysaSaint

OnceaSaintalwaysaSaint

Posted
Posted
3 hours ago, East Kent Saint said:

Everyone , so far , has said NO !

I reckon that's the point. It would have been negligent for SR not to have made overtures to various managers but it's how you make the overture that's important. "Hey Moyesy, hey Graham fancy giving us losers a go?" isn't going to work. But presumably managers also have agents and our recruitment people should be hammering down the doors of Moyes and Potter and presenting them with proposals they can't refuse.

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Farmer Saint

Farmer Saint

Posted
Posted
3 hours ago, Weston Super Saint said:

Source?

I thought we were one of the highest spenders?

Yes, but £35m of that was to stand still (THB and Downes). It meant our actual spending was low(ish) and also meant our wage bill couldn't increase much - we needed so many players and went quantity over quality (understandably due to the poor squad we had).

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Farmer Saint

Farmer Saint

Posted
Posted (edited)
9 hours ago, Dman said:

why is he still here?

Nobody's interested Dave.

How about Potter?

Nobody's interested Dave.

Moyes?

Nobody's interested Dave.

Even Corberan?

They are all not interested. Nobody's interested Dave.

 

MV5BMTg1MTQxNjcwNl5BMl5BanBnXkFtZTgwMDA4Mjg0MjE@._V1_.jpg

Edited by Farmer Saint
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stknowle

stknowle

Posted
Posted
4 hours ago, OnceaSaintalwaysaSaint said:

I reckon that's the point. It would have been negligent for SR not to have made overtures to various managers but it's how you make the overture that's important. "Hey Moyesy, hey Graham fancy giving us losers a go?" isn't going to work. But presumably managers also have agents and our recruitment people should be hammering down the doors of Moyes and Potter and presenting them with proposals they can't refuse.

“Hi we’re ringing to enquire if (insert name of half decent manager) would be interested in becoming our manager”. 

“Who is this?”

“It’s Sou…” “NO!”

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Weston Super Saint

Weston Super Saint

Posted
Posted
1 hour ago, Farmer Saint said:

Yes, but £35m of that was to stand still (THB and Downes). It meant our actual spending was low(ish) and also meant our wage bill couldn't increase much - we needed so many players and went quantity over quality (understandably due to the poor squad we had).

None of that explains your claim that we couldn't spend more due to PSR.

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Farmer Saint

Farmer Saint

Posted
Posted (edited)
10 minutes ago, Weston Super Saint said:

None of that explains your claim that we couldn't spend more due to PSR.

I never said we couldn't spend more, it's more couldn't spend effectively and on what we needed ie. We couldn't buy 4 players at £30m and on £100k PW, due to PSR, which is what we needed to do.

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Lord Duckhunter

Lord Duckhunter

Posted
Posted
1 minute ago, Holmes_and_Watson said:

https://news.sky.com/story/manchester-united-approach-sporting-for-ruben-amorim-after-sacking-ten-hag-13243667

Martin out of running for Man Utd job?

Not at all convinced at all that this guy's hair and facial hair are better than Martins, making me wonder if Wilcox has been overruled.

Another one, has Wilcox got a Lego fetish? 

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Farmer Saint

Farmer Saint

Posted
Posted (edited)
17 minutes ago, Weston Super Saint said:

Source?

Basic Maths. 4 x £30m on £100k pw over 4 year contracts would cost the club:

- £30m per annum in transfer fees (so £90m over a 3 year cycle)

- £21m per annum in wages (£63m over a 3 year cycle)

The rules are £105m loss over a 3 year cycle, so without buying anyone else we would have to make a £48m profit over those 3 years to not have an issue.

This year's liability would have been an additional £51m - the 3 years up to now were allowed a loss of £83m due to a season in the Championship. Add to that new players to the tune of £80m, so let's add £20m to the fees and £20m to the wages. That would put as at £91m for THIS SEASON ALONE.

I don't need a source, I only really need basic Maths.

 

Edited by Farmer Saint
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Greedyfly

Greedyfly

Posted
Posted
46 minutes ago, SWLondon Saint said:

Well, assuming the club has done their PSR maths right with relegation pay cuts and suchlike, the good news is that if RM stays the whole season and we set a new low points record, everyone will think our players are so shit no-one will want to buy them...

You say this as if everyone is clambering to buy the potent strike force of BBD and Archer, or the stone wall that is Bednarek and Stephens :classic_biggrin:

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Weston Super Saint

Weston Super Saint

Posted
Posted
9 hours ago, Farmer Saint said:

Basic Maths. 4 x £30m on £100k pw over 4 year contracts would cost the club:

- £30m per annum in transfer fees (so £90m over a 3 year cycle)

- £21m per annum in wages (£63m over a 3 year cycle)

The rules are £105m loss over a 3 year cycle, so without buying anyone else we would have to make a £48m profit over those 3 years to not have an issue.

This year's liability would have been an additional £51m - the 3 years up to now were allowed a loss of £83m due to a season in the Championship. Add to that new players to the tune of £80m, so let's add £20m to the fees and £20m to the wages. That would put as at £91m for THIS SEASON ALONE.

I don't need a source, I only really need basic Maths.

 

Although your 'basic maths' is actually just your own meandering thoughts and conjecture.

You have no idea what the commercial contracts within the club actually are.  What revenue is coming in to the club.  No idea how the players contracts are put together, how much is 'liable' each season etc, etc etc.

Your 'basic maths' is overly simplistic.  Not really a surprise though.

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Charlie Wayman

Charlie Wayman

Posted
Posted
1 minute ago, Weston Super Saint said:

Although your 'basic maths' is actually just your own meandering thoughts and conjecture.

You have no idea what the commercial contracts within the club actually are.  What revenue is coming in to the club.  No idea how the players contracts are put together, how much is 'liable' each season etc, etc etc.

Your 'basic maths' is overly simplistic.  Not really a surprise though.

Fair do's, creative accounting is all the rage; make it up as you go along.

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Farmer Saint

Farmer Saint

Posted
Posted (edited)
37 minutes ago, Weston Super Saint said:

Although your 'basic maths' is actually just your own meandering thoughts and conjecture.

You have no idea what the commercial contracts within the club actually are.  What revenue is coming in to the club.  No idea how the players contracts are put together, how much is 'liable' each season etc, etc etc.

Your 'basic maths' is overly simplistic.  Not really a surprise though.

 

Jennifer Lawrence Reaction GIF

The profit numbers would have to be so high the commercial revenues for a club like us are pretty much irrelevant. Player contracts are actually very standard in relation to weekly pay - when players get £100k contracts that is basic pay, not including bonuses. This isn't the NFL where you get front or back loaded contracts.

Perhaps you can demonstrate your non-simplistic mathematics and wow us all 🤣

 

 

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Weston Super Saint

Weston Super Saint

Posted
Posted
8 minutes ago, Farmer Saint said:

 

Jennifer Lawrence Reaction GIF

Profit numbers are so high the commercial revenues for a club like us are pretty much irrelevant. Player contracts are actually very standard in relation to weekly pay - when players get £100k contracts that is basic pay, not including bonuses. This isn't the NFL where you get front or back loaded contracts.

Perhaps you can demonstrate your non-simplistic mathematics and wow us all 🤣

 

 

Calm down, you seem very angry.

It's OK not to know all the intricate details of the club's finances.  I imagine only a handful of people at the club really know the figures.

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Farmer Saint

Farmer Saint

Posted
Posted (edited)
16 minutes ago, Weston Super Saint said:

Calm down, you seem very angry.

It's OK not to know all the intricate details of the club's finances.  I imagine only a handful of people at the club really know the figures.

You do get that I was forecasting the amount spent on 4 players don't you? It was hypothetical, but was to show the huge amounts that would go into purchasing those players and the profits we would have to make to counteract that. It's fine if you don't understand how it all works, or can't do the basic Maths - that's why I did it for you. I'm assuming you were probably a Brexit voter with the way you don't want to actually back yourself 😂

Not sure where you could even slightly get anger from in that response, but ok. It must have been the laughing face.

 

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Weston Super Saint

Weston Super Saint

Posted
Posted
1 minute ago, Farmer Saint said:

You do get that I was forecasting the amount spent on 4 players don't you? It was hypothetical, but was to show the huge amounts that would go into purchasing those players and the profits we would have to make to counteract that. It's fine if you don't understand how it all works, or can't do the basic Maths - that's why I did it for you. I'm assuming you were probably a Brexit voter with the way you don't want to actually back yourself 😂

Not sure where you could even slightly get anger from in that response, but ok. It must have been the laughing face.

 

I'm not the one claiming in every other post that our hands are tied by PSR despite us spending over £100m in transfers over the summer.

Each and every time you've been asked to quote a source regarding your claims you've given some half hearted response before cobbling together some figures that you've guessed.

I don't claim to understand the intricacies of the club's finances and how that affects PSR, that's been your job for the last couple of weeks.

Good that you've resorted to personal jibes though - a sure sign of an angry poster.

If you can provide a source for your PSR claims, please do so.  If not, I'm happy to accept you've been making the claims up that can't be substantiated.

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Farmer Saint

Farmer Saint

Posted
Posted (edited)
10 minutes ago, Weston Super Saint said:

I'm not the one claiming in every other post that our hands are tied by PSR despite us spending over £100m in transfers over the summer.

Each and every time you've been asked to quote a source regarding your claims you've given some half hearted response before cobbling together some figures that you've guessed.

I don't claim to understand the intricacies of the club's finances and how that affects PSR, that's been your job for the last couple of weeks.

Good that you've resorted to personal jibes though - a sure sign of an angry poster.

If you can provide a source for your PSR claims, please do so.  If not, I'm happy to accept you've been making the claims up that can't be substantiated.

Bless, looks who's angry now...

The point is you don't need a source to work out that we couldn't buy 4 x £30m players on £100k pw, you just need common sense to work it out - but if you can't see that then fine.

I assume you did vote Brexit then 😂 Is that why you're so suspicious now and need a source, because you got hoodwinked then and you don't want to come across as that stupid again?

Edited by Farmer Saint
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Chewy

Chewy

Posted
Posted
15 minutes ago, Farmer Saint said:

Bless, looks who's angry now...

The point is you don't need a source to work out that we couldn't buy 4 x £30m players on £100k pw, you just need common sense to work it out - but if you can't see that then fine.

I assume you did vote Brexit then 😂 Is that why you're so suspicious now and need a source, because you got hoodwinked then and you don't want to come across as that stupid again?

As a neutral (and very reluctant) observer to this particular discussion, can I just say that to the casual observer you’ve lost this one.

Give up and save some face, you’re looking like a bit of a plonker

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Whitey Grandad

Whitey Grandad

Posted
Posted
1 hour ago, Weston Super Saint said:

Although your 'basic maths' is actually just your own meandering thoughts and conjecture.

You have no idea what the commercial contracts within the club actually are.  What revenue is coming in to the club.  No idea how the players contracts are put together, how much is 'liable' each season etc, etc etc.

Your 'basic maths' is overly simplistic.  Not really a surprise though.

That’s why it’s called basic.

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notnowcato

notnowcato

Posted
Posted
42 minutes ago, Lee On Solent Saint said:

I just want Martin gone out of the club. Don't care who they bring in, Micky Mouse for all I care. Had enough of all the bullshit about it coming together at some point and that we are going to have fun. It's the beginning of November and I've not had any fun watching this shower of shit at all. 

Life’s too short to feel this level of anger. Go for a walk by the port, if you’re lucky you might see Mickey’s yacht. 

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Lallana's Left Peg

Lallana's Left Peg

Posted
Posted

Terrible performances are few and far between, however at the same time the same issues are costing us at both ends of the pitch.  With the players we have at our disposal, I don't know that changing manager gives us a better shot at this stage of the season.  I do think there is a lot of growth in the team and Manager, and I think they'll figure some things out, but it just may be too late.

The big worry is the monkey on their back around getting over the line in games.  It'll become a 'thing', if it hasn't already.  It appears I'm in an increasing minority supporting Martin.  I think he's done well, but it depends on your standards and expectations.  The damage he has tried to reverse at the club goes well beyond the standard of players.

Even if we go down, I want to stick with him - I'd be excited to see what we look like with him and his approach after a long tenure at the club.

But, money talks, and relegation is not something anyone wants, and the club will make a move regardless I suspect.

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Give it to Ron

Give it to Ron

Posted
Posted
20 minutes ago, Lallana's Left Peg said:

Terrible performances are few and far between, however at the same time the same issues are costing us at both ends of the pitch.  With the players we have at our disposal, I don't know that changing manager gives us a better shot at this stage of the season.  I do think there is a lot of growth in the team and Manager, and I think they'll figure some things out, but it just may be too late.

The big worry is the monkey on their back around getting over the line in games.  It'll become a 'thing', if it hasn't already.  It appears I'm in an increasing minority supporting Martin.  I think he's done well, but it depends on your standards and expectations.  The damage he has tried to reverse at the club goes well beyond the standard of players.

Even if we go down, I want to stick with him - I'd be excited to see what we look like with him and his approach after a long tenure at the club.

But, money talks, and relegation is not something anyone wants, and the club will make a move regardless I suspect.

The monkey is caused by the manager not being able to make a sub while he has a hole in his arse!

Leicester game being prime example- why Fraser not Taylor? Why Smallbone who can’t run tackle, head or defend when under the cosh? Lallana starts this week but couldn’t manage 10 last or Big Les who he should be coaching play in his natural position.

Having said all above believe we are stuck a) We can’t get anyone willing to come that board feel is worth risk changing b) we can’t afford to pay his settlement 

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SWLondon Saint

SWLondon Saint

Posted
Posted

One other thought - which players do Martin's supporters think he has made better? Because if he's moving things in the right direction, you'd generally expect some players to be playing better than they have previously and being eyed up by the big clubs. But it seems like the opposite is happening in the last year. And no, Dibling doesn't count.

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skintsaint

skintsaint

Posted
Posted
3 hours ago, Farmer Saint said:

The point is you don't need a source to work out that we couldn't buy 4 x £30m players on £100k pw,

Supposedly the top paid player at Brighton is £87k a week. Matt O'Riley is on 50k a week allegedly. Think your figures are too high.

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Holmes_and_Watson

Holmes_and_Watson

Posted
Posted
20 minutes ago, SWLondon Saint said:

One other thought - which players do Martin's supporters think he has made better? Because if he's moving things in the right direction, you'd generally expect some players to be playing better than they have previously and being eyed up by the big clubs. But it seems like the opposite is happening in the last year. And no, Dibling doesn't count.

I think that there's not many suddenly stand out players that are being eyed up by the big clubs.

Results and PL performances would also suggest there's not many that are playing significantly better, to the extent they change games.

Then there's the players who are developing anyway, and that gap from them looking better in the Championship than in the PL.

Fernandes has come in and immediately stood out. But that's as much his talent than any development so far. But Martin is supporting that, so some credit.

Broadly, and there's debate on doing it at all, but as a team nearly everyone has better awareness, positioning and passing off the back of RussBall. It has cost us goals. We can get caught out. But we do so much of it, that we do ping it about better than they did before he got here. I see other team struggle to get it out more than we do.

There's the players who have secured first team slots like THB and Downes. Archer could be another one too, being trusted with a first team berth and improving from that.

Aribo has gone from being a lump into a more versatile player than he was even at Rangers.

Will developed really well last season, even if that hasn't worked out this season.

Martin has encouraged, and tweaked the system to support the skills of players. KWP and AA come to mind there.

While the final ball still wasn't there, Edozie's all round game was improving.

Even if Martin leaves, the requirements of his system, will have left most of the players with a bit more in their wider game. Successors, with different systems will get some benefits of that.

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Pamplemousse

Pamplemousse

Posted
Posted
1 hour ago, SWLondon Saint said:

One other thought - which players do Martin's supporters think he has made better? Because if he's moving things in the right direction, you'd generally expect some players to be playing better than they have previously and being eyed up by the big clubs. But it seems like the opposite is happening in the last year. And no, Dibling doesn't count.

Why doesn't Dibling count?

Fernandes for me, he's been getting better since he first came in.

 

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