Russell Martin

[Saint NL]

1 hour ago, SWLondon Saint said:

 the whole 'the operation was a success, the patient died' attitude.

I think that's the best summary of our current situation, great analogy.

[Lord Duckhunter]

I don’t mind arrogant people, Jose Mourinho is arrogant, Paul McCartney, a massive hero of mine, was incredibly arrogant for years, Viv Richard’s was arrogant.

The statement “it’s hard to be humble” really does apply to many great people. But in Lego’s case I’d have thought it was pretty easy , as he has achieved fuck all in the game. I’ve heard of imposter syndrome, is there an opposite of that, because he’s fucking got it if there is. 

[Dragon_man]

Talksport we're discussing Martin following this style of play to boost his own profile for his next upwards move, ala Kompany. I think the logic goes that If a top tier team has some top quality players and wants to become like Man C, then bring in Martin and he can do it for you as he known how to play that way. Not convinced personally, but would explain a lot though. 

Man C could be looking for a new Manager next summer ...

 

 

[InvictaSaint]

49 minutes ago, Farmer Saint said:

The Premier League is hardly competitive - especially when you add PSR to the mix which was brought in to quell any remaining competition.

Maybe. But I’m pretty sure you understand my point….

[SaintsBarry74]

You just can’t keep playing this high-risk low-reward, suicide football against stronger opposition. Case in point: Brendan Rodgers’ record with Celtic in the Champions League. Every time they’ve tried this possession-for-possession’s-sake style at the back, they’ve been torn apart. The only times they’ve managed respectable results have been when they’ve kept it simple.

[Mr X]

In my opinion he has to deliver a win at Everton or he should be out of the club  ten games without a win is lunacy and 1 point from 30 is laughable to continue with

I don't think the owners see it that way at all though and for Russ to be so cocksure his job is safe he must have been given reassurances, they have obviously accepted we are going straight back down.

[Golac's Cunning Stunts]

1 hour ago, Lord Duckhunter said:

I don’t mind arrogant people, Jose Mourinho is arrogant, Paul McCartney, a massive hero of mine, was incredibly arrogant for years, Viv Richard’s was arrogant.

The statement “it’s hard to be humble” really does apply to many great people. But in Lego’s case I’d have thought it was pretty easy , as he has achieved fuck all in the game. I’ve heard of imposter syndrome, is there an opposite of that, because he’s fucking got it if there is. 

Yes it's called The Dunning-Kruger Effect

[ally_uk]

The style of football and philosophy is shit, boring AF to watch and is costing us points....... 

All that poncing around af fhe back just stick laces through the ball and clear it in one...... 

What does passing it around the back actually achieve am I missing something here? Possession? Possession is going to keep us in this league is it 🤣🤣🤣🤣

Get this Onion gone ! 

 

 

[obelisk]

Just noticed this comment from RM when talking about his yellow card yesterday.

"We had an apology last week (from PGMOL) about a decision that we weren't given. I didn't say anything after the game in the press, but today I am".

Not that it changes anything though but hadn't seen it picked up elsewhere. Maybe I missed it.

 

 

[Give it to Ron]

8 minutes ago, ally_uk said:

The style of football and philosophy is shit, boring AF to watch and is costing us points....... 

All that poncing around af fhe back just stick laces through the ball and clear it in one...... 

What does passing it around the back actually achieve am I missing something here? Possession? Possession is going to keep us in this league is it 🤣🤣🤣🤣

Get this Onion gone ! 

 

 

The theory or one of them is you have the opposite team running around and chasing the ball drawn out of position and tired.

The downside is that with 5 subs now it doesn’t work as half outfield is refreshed normally.

It also doesn’t work if you can’t pass it forward at pace to take advantage but between defence and goalie loses that opportunity.

[SaintsLoyal]

Hes brought the touchline ban on himself as he gets far too involved with officials on the line.

[saintant]

6 minutes ago, Give it to Ron said:

The theory or one of them is you have the opposite team running around and chasing the ball drawn out of position and tired.

The downside is that with 5 subs now it doesn’t work as half outfield is refreshed normally.

It also doesn’t work if you can’t pass it forward at pace to take advantage but between defence and goalie loses that opportunity.

Also it doesn't work as shown by the results which is the clearest indicator.

[James G]

If Southampton have 80 per cent possession, that gives the opposition 18 minutes of the game to score a goal.

Obviously, we've not been winning with all that possession. However, if we were to play differently and have less possession, would that mean the opposition with more possession would score even more goals. If you think our defense I bad, then I'm assuming it's not a good idea to give the opposition the ball.

So, maybe if we are considering a managerial change, it has to be someone who plays in a similar way, but can turn possession into goals, if such a person exists

[coalman]

Just now, James G said:

If Southampton have 80 per cent possession, that gives the opposition 18 minutes of the game to score a goal.

Obviously, we've not been winning with all that possession. However, if we were to play differently and have less possession, would that mean the opposition with more possession would score even more goals. If you think our defense I bad, then I'm assuming it's not a good idea to give the opposition the ball.

So, maybe if we are considering a managerial change, it has to be someone who plays in a similar way, but can turn possession into goals, if such a person exists

That's based on the flawed premise that possession equates to goals. Where you have the possession matters. In our case our possession tends to lead to our opponents having the ball in our half with our midfield or defence out of position. This is compounded by our inability to move the ball quickly to the other end which means our opponents feel comfortable flooding our half to press us into making mistakes.

Instead of that - coaching our team how to defend might be a worthwhile first step, whether Martin stays in post or not. This starts with things like knowing when to get rid of the ball, how to defend set pieces / crosses, tracking runners, closing down attackers etc.  

[Badger]

4 minutes ago, James G said:

 

So, maybe if we are considering a managerial change, it has to be someone who plays in a similar way, but can turn possession into goals, if such a person exists

Until we get the recruitment right any manager will struggle in this regard. 
 

I’m not looking to defend RM completely but having the Sheffield Utd ‘dream team’ attack of Archer/BBD at his disposal is a significant handicap. That said perhaps TP needs more game time, that decision does  rest with Martin. 

[Mr X]

9 minutes ago, James G said:

If Southampton have 80 per cent possession, that gives the opposition 18 minutes of the game to score a goal.

Obviously, we've not been winning with all that possession. However, if we were to play differently and have less possession, would that mean the opposition with more possession would score even more goals. If you think our defense I bad, then I'm assuming it's not a good idea to give the opposition the ball.

So, maybe if we are considering a managerial change, it has to be someone who plays in a similar way, but can turn possession into goals, if such a person exists

We need to scrap the possession based football model all together in my opinion and get someone in with a more balanced overall approach  to games where we concentrate on possession only some of the time basically someone who can adapt and mix the game up when needed and can React to things that happen in the game with the correct subs, someone who values winning the game over merely looking like the team can pass it around 

[Wade Garrett]

Had enough of SR.

Martin is a fucking shit manager and they haven’t got the bollocks to sack him.

I’m lumbered with a season ticket that I don’t particularly want as every game is like fucking Groundhog Day.

Thanks a lot SR you fucking shower of shit.  Keep patting yourselves on the back telling each other how great and innovative you are.  Cunts, the lot of you.

[Badger]

1 hour ago, Mr X said:

I don't think the owners see it that way at all though and for Russ to be so cocksure his job is safe he must have been given reassurances, they have obviously accepted we are going straight back down.

Perhaps he realised that very few managers of note are interested.
 

On another thread Master Bates says Zsolt Low has rejected us. That goes with others claiming to know both Potter (no surprise) and Moyes have told us to piss off. This is only from the Saints Forum Intelligentsia, so no idea if true. But perhaps it’s  more a case the owners have abandoned the search.

Foolish if true. 

 

[Badger]

3 minutes ago, Wade Garrett said:

Had enough of SR.

Martin is a fucking shit manager and they haven’t got the bollocks to sack him.

I’m lumbered with a season ticket that I don’t particularly want as every game is like fucking Groundhog Day.

Thanks a lot SR you fucking shower of shit.  Keep patting yourselves on the back telling each other how great and innovative you are.  Cunts, the lot of you.

Careful, I hear Manji stirring in the background… 

[Badger]

Just to massage RM’s ego a bit more,  yesterday did seem to throw up a bit of a ‘love in’ for Lego. Not only Pep, but the MOTD luvvies seem generous in their praise of how we played.
 

No mention of a solitary point from nine games though. 

Edited Sunday at 14:09 by Badger

[richardc]

29 minutes ago, James G said:

If Southampton have 80 per cent possession, that gives the opposition 18 minutes of the game to score a goal.

Obviously, we've not been winning with all that possession. However, if we were to play differently and have less possession, would that mean the opposition with more possession would score even more goals. If you think our defense I bad, then I'm assuming it's not a good idea to give the opposition the ball.

So, maybe if we are considering a managerial change, it has to be someone who plays in a similar way, but can turn possession into goals, if such a person exists

The only slight flaw in that plan is it only takes a second to score - which equates to the potential for an awful lot of goals 

Of the course the second to score a goal, obviously doesnt apply to Saints with our labourous attack it takes on average over 90 minutes 

[BarberSaint]

I'm interested in the 10 year plan.

Martin has a three year contract, why not ten if he's not part of the plan? 

For those who already have, don't take that at face value.

Martin's way of playing is contingent on good players. It doesn't work with crap ones and he doesn't get more out of a group than the sum of its parts. They also can't defend in that a lot of goals are given away.  If the club goes down it loses its good/better players and has to find ones who are good at the level below, but not the top tier e.g. (but almost certainly not) Wood.  Promotion is then achieved and better players are required.  They usually cost a lot of money and you'd probably need a good spine, say six, in order to stay up and be competitive if we're going to play "keep ball but don't shoot".  Without staying up and there being a chance to build then the cycle simply resets itself again and again. So unless this is an accounting exercise as someone has already suggested then there effectively is no 'plan' other than to cross your fingers/legs and hope.

If there is a plan and it's related to football, then it must involve staying in the top division because the financial and footballing advantages of that far outweigh any other option; it's not quite a members-only club yet, but it's getting that way i.e. it does to all intents and purposes mirror the American Football leagues and that's without next year's intervention of 'pitch side interviews' - wonder where that idea came from and how many clubs are owned by parties with heavy American interests or non-English owners?

So I do wonder if the ten year plan is yet more guff like the five pledges and what it involves and how it includes Martin. There's a lot more to consider e.g. youth development, infrastructure, new stadium, 'growing the fan base' all the other stuff that gets rolled out but where it's key is if those who drafted the plan are confident that in ten years' time the club will be where they want it to be and if they think it will then they'll keep Martin because that's all part of the master plan.

As we're probably talking RA here, what that plan is is anyone's guess.

 

[notnowcato]

6 hours ago, Fitzhugh Fella said:

Anyone who names a charitable foundation after himself has to have some sort of ego.

All of this might be true but then it isn’t.  Initially it was the Russell Martin Academy, many ex pros have done the same (and failed) to be fair the Academy has been really successful. It changed to Foundation when taking charity status and moving beyond just football whilst helping mental health and other issues local to Brighton and Hove. 
 

Dig him out on the results, performances etc that’s fair game and everyone will have an opinion. 

[Lord Duckhunter]

23 minutes ago, notnowcato said:

whilst helping mental health

He hasn’t helped my fucking mental health. 
 

If he was serious about helping  people with mental health issues, he could help 20k people by fucking off…

Edited Sunday at 15:13 by Lord Duckhunter

[Matthew Le God]

1 hour ago, BarberSaint said:

I'm interested in the 10 year plan.

Martin has a three year contract, why not ten if he's not part of the plan? 

Managers don't need to be at a club for the entire plan. That doesn't mean they aren't part of the plan for the time they are at the club.

Nigel Adkins was part of the Liebherr/Cortese plan to get us to the PL, we then upgraded with Pochettino. That doesn't mean Adkins wasn't viewed as part of the plan for the time he had at the club.

[Wade Garrett]

47 minutes ago, notnowcato said:

All of this might be true but then it isn’t.  Initially it was the Russell Martin Academy, many ex pros have done the same (and failed) to be fair the Academy has been really successful. It changed to Foundation when taking charity status and moving beyond just football whilst helping mental health and other issues local to Brighton and Hove. 
 

Dig him out on the results, performances etc that’s fair game and everyone will have an opinion. 

You’re very well informed.  But then, you do seem to be his cheerleader.

[tdmickey3]

3 hours ago, SaintsLoyal said:

Hes brought the touchline ban on himself as he gets far too involved with officials on the line.

Yep, distraction tactic to take the focus away from the shit he is directing. The clueless deluded and the most out of depth manager since……… Jones and we had to suffer that prick as well.
 

What an absolutely joke of a club we have become and seemingly it will continue with our clowns in charge

[tdmickey3]

37 minutes ago, Wade Garrett said:

You’re very well informed.  But then, you do seem to be his cheerleader.

Yep, him, Gio and that Fabrice are the pom pom girls for sure

[BarberSaint]

1 hour ago, Matthew Le God said:

Managers don't need to be at a club for the entire plan. That doesn't mean they aren't part of the plan for the time they are at the club.

Nigel Adkins was part of the Liebherr/Cortese plan to get us to the PL, we then upgraded with Pochettino. That doesn't mean Adkins wasn't viewed as part of the plan for the time he had at the club.

 

Hmmm

 

Thank you for not reading the third sentence. Added just because ...

 

I do hope you mark homework better than you post.

[Matthew Le God]

13 minutes ago, BarberSaint said:

 

Hmmm

 

Thank you for not reading the third sentence. Added just because ...

 

I do hope you mark homework better than you post.

Why bother writing it if you didn't mean it?

[Lord Duckhunter]

[LGTL]

7 minutes ago, Lord Duckhunter said:

I think it’s clear to all of us that Martin would have rather played like he did yesterday, lose, and receive praise from Pep then actually lump it a few times and win a point. 

The wider watching media/public are beginning to realise too that we’re currently Russell Martin FC. 

[Lighthouse]

4 minutes ago, LGTL said:

I think it’s clear to all of us that Martin would have rather played like he did yesterday, lose, and receive praise from Pep then actually lump it a few times and win a point. 

I don't know why people say stuff like this, when it's very obviously not true, as if Russ somehow doesn't know that his job depends on results. The persona this forum creates for him just gets weirder by the day. Next week people will be saying, "we won 7-0 in spite of Russ and he shot Bambi's mum."

[Weston Super Saint]

2 minutes ago, Lighthouse said:

I don't know why people say stuff like this, when it's very obviously not true, as if Russ somehow doesn't know that his job depends on results. 

And yet 1 point in 9 matches suggests that it doesn't.

[OneMrsWallace]

Looking at the list of fixtures and teams queuing up to play us after Wolves - if RM is still in charge through that phase of the season, we're going to get our arse expanded to breaking point; and not in an enjoyable way. 

[Harry_SFC]

20 minutes ago, Lighthouse said:

I don't know why people say stuff like this, when it's very obviously not true, as if Russ somehow doesn't know that his job depends on results. The persona this forum creates for him just gets weirder by the day. Next week people will be saying, "we won 7-0 in spite of Russ and he shot Bambi's mum."

Martin has already admitted on more than one occasion that he'd rather lose playing like this than pick up points playing in any other way.

I mean WTF. Bloke is bonkers.

 

[saintant]

34 minutes ago, Lighthouse said:

I don't know why people say stuff like this, when it's very obviously not true, as if Russ somehow doesn't know that his job depends on results. The persona this forum creates for him just gets weirder by the day. Next week people will be saying, "we won 7-0 in spite of Russ and he shot Bambi's mum."

If his job really does rely on results why has he still got one? One point from nine games.

[saintant]

30 minutes ago, OneMrsWallace said:

Looking at the list of fixtures and teams queuing up to play us after Wolves - if RM is still in charge through that phase of the season, we're going to get our arse expanded to breaking point; and not in an enjoyable way. 

Apparently it's going to be fun 🙂

[obelisk]

Just now, saintant said:

Apparently it's going to be fun 🙂

But not for us. 🙄

[Football Special]

4 hours ago, Wade Garrett said:

Had enough of SR.

Martin is a fucking shit manager and they haven’t got the bollocks to sack him.

I’m lumbered with a season ticket that I don’t particularly want as every game is like fucking Groundhog Day.

Thanks a lot SR you fucking shower of shit.  Keep patting yourselves on the back telling each other how great and innovative you are.  Cunts, the lot of you.

Every single home game so far has sold out and had ticket exchange, you could have sold your ticket back for each one and can do for both Everton and Liverpool coming up 

[Whitey Grandad]

4 minutes ago, Football Special said:

Every single home game so far has sold out and had ticket exchange, you could have sold your ticket back for each one and can do for both Everton and Liverpool coming up 

But not next Tuesday’s. It’s because of who we’re playing.

[Holmes_and_Watson]

49 minutes ago, Lighthouse said:

I don't know why people say stuff like this, when it's very obviously not true, as if Russ somehow doesn't know that his job depends on results. The persona this forum creates for him just gets weirder by the day. Next week people will be saying, "we won 7-0 in spite of Russ and he shot Bambi's mum."

As a vegan, he didn't even shoot her for the meat. He did it just for the hell of it. That's the sort of person we have, behind that brittle, matey facade!

[LGTL]

55 minutes ago, Lighthouse said:

I don't know why people say stuff like this, when it's very obviously not true, as if Russ somehow doesn't know that his job depends on results. The persona this forum creates for him just gets weirder by the day. Next week people will be saying, "we won 7-0 in spite of Russ and he shot Bambi's mum."

1 point from 27. Talk of 10 year plans. Positive and encouraging chats with ‘the board’. 5 points off safety already.

It would appear that Russ knows his job very much doesn’t depend on results and his propaganda football is free to continue. 

Edited Sunday at 17:50 by LGTL

[Football Special]

5 minutes ago, Whitey Grandad said:

But not next Tuesday’s. It’s because of who we’re playing.

Tuesday v Stoke? It's not on your season ticket so you wouldn't have to sell it back anyway 

[notnowcato]

2 hours ago, Lord Duckhunter said:

He hasn’t helped my fucking mental health. 
 

If he was serious about helping  people with mental health issues, he could help 20k people by fucking off…

I can confirm that there is no helping you 😘

[notnowcato]

2 hours ago, Wade Garrett said:

You’re very well informed.  But then, you do seem to be his cheerleader.

I live local to the Foundation and both my boys have benefited from the academy. Call me a cheerleader if that floats your boat but I can assure you that me with pom poms is the stuff of nightmares 

[notnowcato]

1 hour ago, tdmickey3 said:

Yep, him, Gio and that Fabrice are the pom pom girls for sure

In your dreams darling

[notnowcato]

1 hour ago, OneMrsWallace said:

Looking at the list of fixtures and teams queuing up to play us after Wolves - if RM is still in charge through that phase of the season, we're going to get our arse expanded to breaking point; and not in an enjoyable way. 

How do you enjoy your arse expanded then??

[Farmer Saint]

10 minutes ago, notnowcato said:

I live local to the Foundation and both my boys have benefited from the academy. Call me a cheerleader if that floats your boat but I can assure you that me with pom poms is the stuff of nightmares 

Don't bother mate - it takes a special kind of cunt to criticise someone for putting time and effort into running a charity.

Edited Sunday at 18:08 by Farmer Saint

[benjii]

The Liz Truss of football.