notnowcato Posted October 26 Share Posted October 26 7 minutes ago, Charlie Wayman said: It runs deeper than that. The man defintely has attitude which rankles with many even though they don't know him or have never met him, think Trump, think Johnson, think Farage. By the same measure very few took a dislike to Ralph evn when things were going badly. Call him out on his results, fair enough but fuck me getting your knickers in a twist over someone you’ve never met who you perceive to have “attitude” and compare to your list of fascists… hilarious. 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Saint in Paradise Posted October 26 Share Posted October 26 Ref that quote from Pep re RM, I wonder if Pep is trying to get some goodwill from all the other PL teams? Bearing in mind that a lot of other teams don't like Man City, for the alleged reasons posted elsewhere, perhaps he hopes Saints will now keep RM so making it a lot easier for the others to beat Saints? Thereby making Saints odds on for relegation so that only two more teams instead of three have to worry? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SWLondon Saint Posted October 26 Share Posted October 26 It's easy to be nice to opponents you've just beaten pretty comfortably and who frankly haven't threatened much. Look at the xG, something like 2.3 for them Vs 0.3 for us. Who wouldn't want to play that every week? Of course he can be nice about our possession stats. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
notnowcato Posted October 26 Share Posted October 26 4 minutes ago, Saint in Paradise said: Ref that quote from Pep re RM, I wonder if Pep is trying to get some goodwill from all the other PL teams? Bearing in mind that a lot of other teams don't like Man City, for the alleged reasons posted elsewhere, perhaps he hopes Saints will now keep RM so making it a lot easier for the others to beat Saints? Thereby making Saints odds on for relegation so that only two more teams instead of three have to worry? Really??!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SWLondon Saint Posted October 26 Share Posted October 26 Only saw the motd highlights today rather than whole game, but it looked like Manning was playing really high as a winger at times? Dibling looked off the pace, far too slow to get up in support when Archer had that chance. If RM wants to continue to try and pass it out, Lallana has to start / play as much as possible. He's the only one with the quality to get it on the half turn under pressure nearly every time. Defensive transition still looks a mess even from the highlights. 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Farmer Saint Posted October 26 Share Posted October 26 25 minutes ago, SWLondon Saint said: It's easy to be nice to opponents you've just beaten pretty comfortably and who frankly haven't threatened much. Look at the xG, something like 2.3 for them Vs 0.3 for us. Who wouldn't want to play that every week? Of course he can be nice about our possession stats. Being nice doesn't mean they get to play us more often. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
verlaine1979 Posted October 26 Share Posted October 26 30 minutes ago, Saint in Paradise said: Ref that quote from Pep re RM, I wonder if Pep is trying to get some goodwill from all the other PL teams? Bearing in mind that a lot of other teams don't like Man City, for the alleged reasons posted elsewhere, perhaps he hopes Saints will now keep RM so making it a lot easier for the others to beat Saints? Thereby making Saints odds on for relegation so that only two more teams instead of three have to worry? Nope. Pep is polite about everyone he's not actively feuding with. He can afford to be. Let's not have this be a rerun of the "Pep loves Redmond" nonsense. 5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Whitey Grandad Posted October 26 Share Posted October 26 1 hour ago, Farmer Saint said: It's fucking weird - I think he comes across as a good bloke - he seems to care about his players and by all accounts players seem to absolutely love him. Considering they are the people that tend to spend the most time with him, I'm inclined to think they're correct. If that’s true then he’s too close to his players. He’s the David Brent of managers. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Whitey Grandad Posted October 26 Share Posted October 26 6 minutes ago, Farmer Saint said: Being nice doesn't mean they get to play us more often. He’s bagging up his own achievement . 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Whitey Grandad Posted October 26 Share Posted October 26 2 hours ago, Winnersaint said: How did you feel about him on 26th May? That was then and this is now. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Whitey Grandad Posted October 26 Share Posted October 26 1 hour ago, Farmer Saint said: I think if people class him alongside them, then it's the fans who have a problem rather than Martin. Yeah, if all else fails insult your fan base. 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Whitey Grandad Posted October 26 Share Posted October 26 1 hour ago, Farmer Saint said: It's not the averageness - there are loads of average managers around that I would assume you don't hate, so why do you hate him so much? Hate is a very extreme reaction to someone you don't actually know - you're creating a lot of assumptions on his day to day behaviour to have those sorts of feelings. He’s arrogant, he’s got an ego that he doesn’t warrant, he insults his fanbase, it’s all about him. Above all that he’s ruining my team. 9 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vectraman Posted October 26 Share Posted October 26 3 hours ago, Lighthouse said: I really can’t get my head around this kind of attitude some of our fans have towards Martin. If you think he’s out of his depth and want him sacked, fine, but to actively detest him based on sound bites in response to leading journalist questions seems way out of proportion. Detest is too strong a word I agree. I do dislike him, he comes across as arrogant and can’t take any ‘difficult questions’ without getting shirty with the interviewer. Just like I disliked Nathan Jones - another arrogant bloke - many disliked him without knowing him - just for the way he comes across. James Corden another arrogant bloke I can’t stand - but I don’t know him. (just like in real life, you meet someone face to face and normally you make an opinion on what they are like - nice guy, alright, bit of a knob, absolute twat). We all do it, subconsciously maybe, but we all do - it’s human nature. Ruben Selles and Ralph were never anything but decent blokes - on my human likeability scales anyway. Nathan and Russ Martin sadly fall into the arrogant category, not a trait I find endearing personally. Probably why Keir and Co come across as dislikeable too. Don’t hate them, definitely don’t like them though! 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vectraman Posted October 26 Share Posted October 26 (edited) 3 hours ago, Lighthouse said: I really can’t get my head around this kind of attitude some of our fans have towards Martin. If you think he’s out of his depth and want him sacked, fine, but to actively detest him based on sound bites in response to leading journalist questions seems way out of Deleted double posted. Edited October 26 by vectraman Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Saint in Paradise Posted October 27 Share Posted October 27 5 hours ago, notnowcato said: Really??!! Yes Really!! Pep is a winner and he is very clever at doing his utmost to win by playing mind games. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maggie May Posted October 27 Share Posted October 27 We’ll beat Wolves. I’m Martin in, by the way. I fear for this club’s future if we sack him now and still go down. 1 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maggie May Posted October 27 Share Posted October 27 6 hours ago, vectraman said: Detest is too strong a word I agree. I do dislike him, he comes across as arrogant and can’t take any ‘difficult questions’ without getting shirty with the interviewer. Just like I disliked Nathan Jones - another arrogant bloke - many disliked him without knowing him - just for the way he comes across. James Corden another arrogant bloke I can’t stand - but I don’t know him. (just like in real life, you meet someone face to face and normally you make an opinion on what they are like - nice guy, alright, bit of a knob, absolute twat). We all do it, subconsciously maybe, but we all do - it’s human nature. Ruben Selles and Ralph were never anything but decent blokes - on my human likeability scales anyway. Nathan and Russ Martin sadly fall into the arrogant category, not a trait I find endearing personally. Probably why Keir and Co come across as dislikeable too. Don’t hate them, definitely don’t like them though! Ralph and Selles are a big reason why we are where we are now. 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Farmer Saint Posted October 27 Share Posted October 27 (edited) 8 hours ago, Whitey Grandad said: Yeah, if all else fails insult your fan base. He was being compared to a bunch of fascists - do you not see that as being a little bit extreme? I think if people genuinely "hate" Martin, they need to go take a nice walk and put what it in some perspective. You don't have to hate him, you can just let it go. The World is an amazing place if you let it be. Edited October 27 by Farmer Saint Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wade Garrett Posted October 27 Share Posted October 27 3 minutes ago, Farmer Saint said: He was being compared to a bunch of fascists - do you not see that as being a little bit extreme? I think if people genuinely "hate" Martin, they need to go take a nice walk and put what it in some perspective. You don't have to hate him, you can just let it go. The World is an amazing place if you let it be. You know what they mean. Bit condescending. I hate Martin being our manager. He is gaslighting us now, to add to his arrogance and obvious lack of ability as a coach. 5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Charlie Wayman Posted October 27 Share Posted October 27 9 hours ago, notnowcato said: Call him out on his results, fair enough but fuck me getting your knickers in a twist over someone you’ve never met who you perceive to have “attitude” and compare to your list of fascists… hilarious. 8 hours ago, Whitey Grandad said: He’s arrogant, he’s got an ego that he doesn’t warrant, he insults his fanbase, it’s all about him. Above all that he’s ruining my team. I'm with Whitey on this one 5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Harry_SFC Posted October 27 Share Posted October 27 (edited) 1 hour ago, Maggie May said: Ralph and Selles are a big reason why we are where we are now. Harsh on Ralph that. In general he did a decent job with us. Even when he was sacked we weren't in an awful position. Yes his tenure had run it's course but everything since then has been the problem. Edited October 27 by Harry_SFC 13 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr X Posted October 27 Share Posted October 27 (edited) 11 hours ago, FarehamSaintJames said: Some of the comments from today are quite funny. Today’s defeat isn’t on him. Man City are a far superior team, if you were expecting a Saints win you’re deluded. His next three games are surely the deciders for him. Stoke in the cup, Wolves and Everton in the league. Times running out. I get that we were playing pretty much playing the. Best team in the league by some distance but he is a defender and says that the team is working on being more solid yet we concede after 5 minutes! All of his teams leak a ridiculous amount of goals he does not know how to set up a defence or pick the right players for the strongest defence And we conceded from playing the ball back to our own goal and losing possession yet again Edited October 27 by Mr X 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
coalman Posted October 27 Share Posted October 27 I think Martin's recent interviews have been a bit thin skinned but I also imagine getting asked when you're getting fired multiple times a day is going to get old quickly. I also think he's out of his depth, am not sure he's got the ability to learn or adapt and don't trust the club to hire a viable replacement. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fitzhugh Fella Posted October 27 Share Posted October 27 8 hours ago, Whitey Grandad said: He’s arrogant, he’s got an ego that he doesn’t warrant, he insults his fanbase, it’s all about him. Above all that he’s ruining my team. Anyone who names a charitable foundation after himself has to have some sort of ego. I'm told by those who work at St Mary's that he is far more personable than RH was and I don't doubt it, but to me that just says he works on his man management which Ralph didn't. His comments after yesterday's game about the season is going to be a lot of fun is near Nathan Jonesesque in terms of crassness and will undoubtedly come back to haunt him. I think he is an imposter who is out of his depth but I have zero confidence in the people who are above him which leaves us so far up shit creek it doesn't bear thinking about. 13 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AlexLaw76 Posted October 27 Share Posted October 27 1 hour ago, Maggie May said: We’ll beat Wolves. I’m Martin in, by the way. I fear for this club’s future if we sack him now and still go down. Fear for the club if we sack someone who has 1 point from 27?!?! really? 6 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Weston Super Saint Posted October 27 Share Posted October 27 10 hours ago, Farmer Saint said: It's not the averageness - there are loads of average managers around that I would assume you don't hate, so why do you hate him so much? He's not 'average'. 'Average' is Fulham or Bournemouth or roughly 12 points so far this season. He's fucking woeful. Fucking woeful is one pont from 9 games. I love arrogant / cocky managers. Mourinho is one of those but he has the ability to back that up and has 'earnt' the right to be a cocky bastard. RM is a very long way off from earning that right but thinks he's the best thing sliced bread. 6 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
saintstowin Posted October 27 Share Posted October 27 RM seemed to be on a short leash patience-wise last season. Why? Underperforming at times. Along with him embracing the notion that his style is innovative. I can see how that was perceived as (and may well be) arrogant and annoyed some people. This season he has very little evidence to back up his continuing confidence, but is doubling down. Even I'm annoyed at him for this. I don't expect to hear 'we're not competing and I'm struggling to adapt' but it is possible to get across that sentiment (be a bit humble). I expect his personality will struggle to do that. The players like him, they'll be hearing how important they are, but even without that it is fair enough that people might just like him. I'm assuming we all expected we'd struggle this season. I also expect if we had a manager with more humility, both towards our predicament, and his responsibilities such as adapting rather than actively avoiding change, there would be more understanding and patience. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lighthouse Posted October 27 Share Posted October 27 1 hour ago, Maggie May said: Ralph and Selles are a big reason why we are where we are now. Neither are a big reason we are where we are now. Ralph is the reason we aren't another Stoke or Swansea, when Gao owned us with absolutely zero interest in running a football club. Selles was just the man holding the parcel when the music stopped two years ago. The damage had been long since done by years of terrible recruitment and the appointment of Jones. 10 minutes ago, Weston Super Saint said: He's not 'average'. 'Average' is Fulham or Bournemouth or roughly 12 points so far this season. He's fucking woeful. Fucking woeful is one pont from 9 games. You seem to be equating clubs and managers. Those teams are average, Saints are woeful. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
saintant Posted October 27 Share Posted October 27 9 hours ago, verlaine1979 said: Nope. Pep is polite about everyone he's not actively feuding with. He can afford to be. Let's not have this be a rerun of the "Pep loves Redmond" nonsense. Why wouldn't Pep sing our praises - he wants us to play the same way when City visit St Marys - he'd be daft to suggest we are playing the wrong way and should adopt a more suitable style. 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Farmer Saint Posted October 27 Share Posted October 27 36 minutes ago, Weston Super Saint said: He's not 'average'. 'Average' is Fulham or Bournemouth or roughly 12 points so far this season. He's fucking woeful. Fucking woeful is one pont from 9 games. I love arrogant / cocky managers. Mourinho is one of those but he has the ability to back that up and has 'earnt' the right to be a cocky bastard. RM is a very long way off from earning that right but thinks he's the best thing sliced bread. No, average is bottom of Championship/top of League 1. He's an average football manager, he's a poor PL manager. Average also wasn't my word, it was the word of @danjosaint Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Morse Posted October 27 Share Posted October 27 Like him or hate him is irrelevant, I don't think he's a very good manager and as such should be replaced. However, I have no faith in SR replacing him with anyone better, and it's SR who are the bigger curse on our club at the moment. 6 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Weston Super Saint Posted October 27 Share Posted October 27 9 minutes ago, Farmer Saint said: No, average is bottom of Championship/top of League 1. He's an average football manager, he's a poor PL manager. Average also wasn't my word, it was the word of @danjosaint Lol. You're only kidding yourself. If you're going to extend the parameters, why not include all non league managers? In that case, he's truly top class? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fabrice29 Posted October 27 Share Posted October 27 45 minutes ago, Weston Super Saint said: He's not 'average'. 'Average' is Fulham or Bournemouth or roughly 12 points so far this season. He's fucking woeful. Fucking woeful is one pont from 9 games. I love arrogant / cocky managers. Mourinho is one of those but he has the ability to back that up and has 'earnt' the right to be a cocky bastard. RM is a very long way off from earning that right but thinks he's the best thing sliced bread. You really have to stop watching pal. You’re not enjoying it, that’s okay but you’re out here being so angry at one man you’re comparing him with a whole football club. Doesn’t feel healthy. Walk away, at least from the website. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Weston Super Saint Posted October 27 Share Posted October 27 Just now, Fabrice29 said: You really have to stop watching pal. You’re not enjoying it, that’s okay but you’re out here being so angry at one man you’re comparing him with a whole football club. Doesn’t feel healthy. Walk away, at least from the website. I've already accepted relegation. I'm not angry about it. Doesn't mean I have to like the turgid football on display. 6 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SWLondon Saint Posted October 27 Share Posted October 27 (edited) I think part of the reason Martin provokes such anger is the whole 'the operation was a success, the patient died' attitude. We see it time and time again with institutions and PR these days and It really pisses people off. It smacks of not really caring about the patient or the actual result, only about what that person deems to have been a success - see also COVID PPE contracts, Brexit, Post Office scandal, etc etc. In this case Martin really doesn't seem to give a monkey's about what happens to the club, only what he considers to be playing the right way. So I get the anger. Personally I just think he's incompetent and put of his depth but he's hardly alone there! Edited October 27 by SWLondon Saint Typo 6 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fabrice29 Posted October 27 Share Posted October 27 2 minutes ago, Weston Super Saint said: I've already accepted relegation. I'm not angry about it. Doesn't mean I have to like the turgid football on display. You’re angry at one man. It’s odd. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fabrice29 Posted October 27 Share Posted October 27 1 minute ago, SWLondon Saint said:. We see it time and time again with institutions and PR these days and It really pisses people off. It smacks of not really caring about the patient or the actual result, only about what that person seems to have been a success - see also COVID PPE contracts, Brexit, Post Office scandal, etc etc. Hahahaha fucking hell. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Weston Super Saint Posted October 27 Share Posted October 27 Just now, Fabrice29 said: You’re angry at one man. It’s odd. I'm not angry at him at all. That's something you've made up to suit some weird agenda. I would be more than happy if he showed some pragmatism and adapted his style. Sadly I believe he is too arrogant to do that. Doesn't mean I'm angry with him. I'm not happy with 1 point from 9 games, are you? 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fabrice29 Posted October 27 Share Posted October 27 1 minute ago, Weston Super Saint said: I'm not angry at him at all. That's something you've made up to suit some weird agenda. I would be more than happy if he showed some pragmatism and adapted his style. Sadly I believe he is too arrogant to do that. Doesn't mean I'm angry with him. I'm not happy with 1 point from 9 games, are you? I’m not, no. But I’m not so angry at one man that I think it’s all his fault. 1 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Harry_SFC Posted October 27 Share Posted October 27 The squad isn't great, but as others have pointed out, if it was coached properly we'd have more than 1 point on the board right now. We've had by far the easiest fixtures compared with all the other teams around us and we actually look worse against the teams we should be looking to get points from. Even if they stick with Martin in the Championship next season and he manages to get us promoted again. What then? We go back up and finish bottom having not won a game? I just don't get the plan here. 5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
InvictaSaint Posted October 27 Share Posted October 27 What is the main objective of competitive sport? To win. What is the main purpose of a manager in competitive sport? To make the team good enough to win. On current evidence, is Russell Martin meeting these definitions, even if only by the skin of his teeth? No. Would changing the manager at this point be a reasonable action given the above? Yes. Shankly was right…. 6 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Weston Super Saint Posted October 27 Share Posted October 27 7 minutes ago, Fabrice29 said: I’m not, no. But I’m not so angry at one man that I think it’s all his fault. So the manager is blameless? Absolutely nothing he can do to change the team or tactics to get any other result? 6 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aintforever Posted October 27 Share Posted October 27 11 minutes ago, SWLondon Saint said: I think part of the reason Martin provokes such anger is the whole 'the operation was a success, the patient died' attitude. We see it time and time again with institutions and PR these days and It really pisses people off. It smacks of not really caring about the patient or the actual result, only about what that person deems to have been a success - see also COVID PPE contracts, Brexit, Post Office scandal, etc etc. In this case Martin really doesn't seem to give a monkey's about what happens to the club, only what he considers to be playing the right way. So I get the anger. Personally I just think he's incompetent and put of his depth but he's hardly alone there! That’s just fucking weird. He wants it to be a success more than anyone, just has his own views on how the game is played. 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lighthouse Posted October 27 Share Posted October 27 2 minutes ago, Weston Super Saint said: So the manager is blameless? Absolutely nothing he can do to change the team or tactics to get any other result? I see you've correctly identified that, 'all his fault' and 'blameless' are the only two possible options. 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fabrice29 Posted October 27 Share Posted October 27 4 minutes ago, Weston Super Saint said: So the manager is blameless? Absolutely nothing he can do to change the team or tactics to get any other result? Listen to yourself pal 🤣 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
beatlesaint Posted October 27 Share Posted October 27 3 hours ago, Maggie May said: We’ll beat Wolves. I’m Martin in, by the way. I fear for this club’s future if we sack him now and still go down. So in other words do you think he's good enough to keep us as a yo-yo club ? He can get us out of The Championship but not keep us in the Prem? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Farmer Saint Posted October 27 Share Posted October 27 57 minutes ago, Weston Super Saint said: Lol. You're only kidding yourself. If you're going to extend the parameters, why not include all non league managers? In that case, he's truly top class? It wasn't my word! Danjo called him bang average - talk to him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Farmer Saint Posted October 27 Share Posted October 27 57 minutes ago, Weston Super Saint said: I've already accepted relegation. I'm not angry about it. Doesn't mean I have to like the turgid football on display. To be fair I'd prefer you take out your anger on here rather than on anyone close to you, but I think you need to get to the root of where your anger comes from. I'm here to listen if you do want to talk. 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Farmer Saint Posted October 27 Share Posted October 27 45 minutes ago, InvictaSaint said: What is the main objective of competitive sport? To win. What is the main purpose of a manager in competitive sport? To make the team good enough to win. On current evidence, is Russell Martin meeting these definitions, even if only by the skin of his teeth? No. Would changing the manager at this point be a reasonable action given the above? Yes. Shankly was right…. The Premier League is hardly competitive - especially when you add PSR to the mix which was brought in to quell any remaining competition. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Duckhunter Posted October 27 Share Posted October 27 14 hours ago, Football Special said: There is a comedy character in there for sure. Been done already. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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