Russell Martin

[Lee On Solent Saint]

1 minute ago, saintant said:

My point about team performances wasn't so much aimed at the entertainment side of things more about fans having to pay to watch a team that is part of a project to suit the owners efforts to make money and which is becoming an embarrassment. Hopefully there is no actual truth behind the theory you put forward.

If that happens, St Mary's will be half empty match days. Never mind Manchester City, we will be like Stoke City.

[Farmer Saint]

16 minutes ago, saintant said:

My point about team performances wasn't so much aimed at the entertainment side of things more about fans having to pay to watch a team that is part of a project to suit the owners efforts to make money and which is becoming an embarrassment. Hopefully there is no actual truth behind the theory you put forward.

Not many owners now own clubs as a vanity project (Tony Bloom seems to be one that does - but even he isn't balls deep), they do it to make money. That's what the PL and the money in it has enabled.

PSR gives them even more of an excuse.

Edited 22 October, 2024 by Farmer Saint

[SWLondon Saint]

1 minute ago, Farmer Saint said:

Not many owners now own clubs as a vanity project (Tony Bloom seems to be one that does - but even he isn't balls deep), they do it to make money. That's what the PL and the money in it has enabled.

The yo-yo idea is plausible, but I'd have thought they'd make more money being a stable PL club doing the same thing? Basically the Red Bull model.

[Farmer Saint]

2 minutes ago, SWLondon Saint said:

The yo-yo idea is plausible, but I'd have thought they'd make more money being a stable PL club doing the same thing? Basically the Red Bull model.

The problem is there is far more risk - higher investment coupled with a risk that one poor year can absolutely fuck you. This way the risk is minimised.

[Kenilworthy]

5 minutes ago, Farmer Saint said:

The problem is there is far more risk - higher investment coupled with a risk that one poor year can absolutely fuck you. This way the risk is minimised.

Isn't the yo-yo higher risk? Especially if you fail to go back up in two years.

[disconnect]

34 minutes ago, Lee On Solent Saint said:

Why is it logical to wait? You have two games we should be looking at to pick up points, like Leicester. A change needs to be made. 

He'll only turn things around if he actually changes the way we play, which he kind of did, for a half (which we were the better team) on Saturday. The issue is, he's repeatedly said he won't change how he sets us up, and as soon as we fall back into his style, we concede tonnes of goals, and any good the team have done is quickly wiped out. If he wont change the way we play, and we stick with him, the same thing will happen against Everton and Wolves (and Man City) and we'll be rock bottom and even further from hope. At the moment we're 3 points from safety, when we're suddenly 9 points from safety, any prospective manager looks at things a very different way.

[Saint86]

Who was it who said he was definitely going to get sacked on the day of the charity game?

[OttawaSaint]

3 hours ago, CSA96 said:

 

Utter folly.

When we were getting in the new coach now and it became apparent Martin was in the frame. All the reports of "playing around at the back", "conceding multiple self inflicted goals every other game", "wedded to his style", "Swansea got mid table thanks to a rare purple patch". I figured, no way they'll want that, not with the players we have. Then the links got stronger and eventually we got him in. I was not happy at all and now that the chickens are coming home to roost, they are still sticking with this guy.

Beggars belief.

 

[Maggie May]

21 minutes ago, OttawaSaint said:

Utter folly.

When we were getting in the new coach now and it became apparent Martin was in the frame. All the reports of "playing around at the back", "conceding multiple self inflicted goals every other game", "wedded to his style", "Swansea got mid table thanks to a rare purple patch". I figured, no way they'll want that, not with the players we have. Then the links got stronger and eventually we got him in. I was not happy at all and now that the chickens are coming home to roost, they are still sticking with this guy.

Beggars belief.

 

Eh? He got us promoted FFS.

[Micky]

26 minutes ago, Saint86 said:

Who was it who said he was definitely going to get sacked on the day of the charity game?

To be fair all of our games have been 'charity games', we literally give opponents goals and points on a weekly basis.  Every single game. 

[Wade Garrett]

7 minutes ago, Micky said:

To be fair all of our games have been 'charity games', we literally give opponents goals and points on a weekly basis.  Every single game. 

I think the rest of the Premier League are hoping Martin stays on.

[Baird of the land]

5 hours ago, FarehamSaintJames said:

Graeme Bailey reporting that they’ll give Russell Martin until the November international break to turn things around.

Respectfully, that’s hardly news. I think most of us on here can predict that, and have predicted that. It’s just logical to wait until after Everton and Wolves now.

It’s a bit like the ten year plan story from Jim White. It’s just bullshit and paper talk with no substance.

 

Utterly pathetic to wait that long. Lose those those 2 and it would be virtually over. (1 point from 4 games against bottom teams).

[Harry_SFC]

11 minutes ago, Baird of the land said:

Utterly pathetic to wait that long. Lose those those 2 and it would be virtually over. (1 point from 4 games against bottom teams).

Our recent record at Molineux is pants - expect nothing other than a loss there. Obviously we will lose next weekend. That leaves the Everton game. Possibly a draw at best now they've picked up some form. 1 point surely wouldn't be enough to save him. 

I think most of us can agree he'll more than likely be sacked come the next international break, which will leave everyone questioning why they left it so long, given the writing was pretty much on the wall.

[Harry_SFC]

3 hours ago, Farmer Saint said:

What they are not going to do is sack him without someone in place to take over - that is where we are struggling at the moment. We are also very wary of going for a Manager in a role after what happened with Martin when we took him on.

I mean SR put that on themselves. Haggling over a £500,000 compensation or something stupid. 

[Micky]

15 minutes ago, Wade Garrett said:

I think the rest of the Premier League are hoping Martin stays on.

Of course they are, we are their guaranteed 6 points.  To be fair we are insignificant to the top teams which normally would not necessarily be a problem. But we're easy meat for the rest of the league as well, most punters have us already relegated, and it's hard to argue against them. The players are not very good,  and the manager only has one way of playing that was sussed after the first 3 games, difficult conundrum. 

[Whitey Grandad]

3 hours ago, Farmer Saint said:

What they are not going to do is sack him without someone in place to take over - that is where we are struggling at the moment. We are also very wary of going for a Manager in a role after what happened with Martin when we took him on.

In which case they’re even more incredible than I thought.

[Toussaint]

1 hour ago, Saint86 said:

Who was it who said he was definitely going to get sacked on the day of the charity game?

Well it just goes to show you, wishing wells are a con!

[Badger]

48 minutes ago, Baird of the land said:

Utterly pathetic to wait that long. Lose those those 2 and it would be virtually over. (1 point from 4 games against bottom teams).

And as soon as the Wolves game is over it will be "well, no point bringing anyone in as no one (apart from one Welsh bloke) would want to face Liverpool first match)..."

[Oldandtired]

1 hour ago, Maggie May said:

Eh? He got us promoted FFS.

No he didn't. A lot of people believe we were promoted despite Martin not because of him.

[Lee On Solent Saint]

Talking to a Palace fan during their game with Forest last night at Gatwick, he reckons they're going down. For some bizarre reason he thinks we are going to be ok as we score goals! 

[Farmer Saint]

2 hours ago, Kenilworthy said:

Isn't the yo-yo higher risk? Especially if you fail to go back up in two years.

3 years, but no as you're investment is far smaller - an extra £20m per player purchased and £50k PW per player is huge amounts.

[CB Fry]

2 hours ago, Farmer Saint said:

The problem is there is far more risk - higher investment coupled with a risk that one poor year can absolutely fuck you. This way the risk is minimised.

Pretty bloody risky to think that the yo yo strategy is in any way sustainable. Not least significant discomfort in the customer base.

[derry]

Personally I have a problem with Martin's lack of credibility. Defending a lead he brings on the expert in non contact football, Will Smallbone. A player out of his depth. Fraser to pick up Fatawu, he tracked him when what was needed was somebody tight to get up him so that he didn't have room to turn. Cut off his supply mark Winks and put Onuachu and Sulemana up tight on the centre backs. Eventually he brought on Taylor the one player who should have replaced Sugawara. Has no plan at corners except pack the goal area. Allowed two players to be unmarked on the edge of the penalty area. Never leaves any two forwards who are usually useless defenders to stay upfield and thin out the number of attackers available to the opposition. That together with his obsession with slow motion go nowhere keep ball.

[Baird of the land]

31 minutes ago, Badger said:

And as soon as the Wolves game is over it will be "well, no point bringing anyone in as no one (apart from one Welsh bloke) would want to face Liverpool first match)..."

Then 5th brighton(away), 6th Chelsea (home), 4th villa(away), 7th spurs (home)

[egg]

5 minutes ago, derry said:

Personally I have a problem with Martin's lack of credibility. Defending a lead he brings on the expert in non contact football, Will Smallbone. A player out of his depth. Fraser to pick up Fatawu, he tracked him when what was needed was somebody tight to get up him so that he didn't have room to turn. Cut off his supply mark Winks and put Onuachu and Sulemana up tight on the centre backs. Eventually he brought on Taylor the one player who should have replaced Sugawara. Has no plan at corners except pack the goal area. Allowed two players to be unmarked on the edge of the penalty area. Never leaves any two forwards who are usually useless defenders to stay upfield and thin out the number of attackers available to the opposition. That together with his obsession with slow motion go nowhere keep ball.

Yep. Good sumnary. Apart from all that though, he got it spot on! 

[DrunkenSaint]

1 hour ago, Maggie May said:

Eh? He got us promoted FFS.

He almost F@@ked that up as well when having probably the best squad in the league, yes we had a very good championship squad already in place and we still do and thats the problem. 

[Gloucester Saint]

13 minutes ago, CB Fry said:

Pretty bloody risky to think that the yo yo strategy is in any way sustainable. Not least significant discomfort in the customer base.

And disrespects the EFL. Watford’s owners thought relegations didn’t really matter, they’d keep bouncing back first time - until they didn’t.

Norwich too in a way, less cynically than Watford’s.

I’m not sure SR are pursuing yo-yo, I think they’re just totally clueless with Phil Giles’s tea boy from Brentford in his skinny 👖 wild on the equivalent of a cocktail of E-numbers with somebody else’s money. And plenty of vape 💨 breaks of course.

[Oldandtired]

Here you  are Russ, fill yer boots.

https://www.facebook.com/share/r/CzAE4pNSD6pTanBH/?mibextid=UalRPS

you're welcome.

 

 

Edited 22 October, 2024 by Oldandtired

[Wade Garrett]

2 minutes ago, Gloucester Saint said:

And disrespects the EFL. Watford’s owners thought relegations didn’t really matter, they’d keep bouncing back first time - until they didn’t.

Norwich too in a way, less cynically than Watford’s.

I’m not sure SR are pursuing yo-yo, I think they’re just totally clueless with Phil Giles’s tea boy from Brentford in his skinny 👖 wild on the equivalent of a cocktail of E-numbers with somebody else’s money. And plenty of vape 💨 breaks of course.

Don’t forget the lattes and the fucking skateboard.

[Roo1976]

17 minutes ago, Baird of the land said:

Then 5th brighton(away), 6th Chelsea (home), 4th villa(away), 7th spurs (home)

we only get to play everyone twice................phew.........

[Gloucester Saint]

6 hours ago, CSA96 said:

 

The boardroom still has ample quantities of delusion-causing alcohol in it, I see. Although I thought Rasmus and Kraft would be Mikkeller drinkers. All image and brand, fuck all substance and depth. 

Edited 22 October, 2024 by Gloucester Saint

[Oldandtired]

3 hours ago, Kenilworthy said:

Isn't the yo-yo higher risk? Especially if you fail to go back up in two years.

surely the problem with that scenario is if you yo but don't then yo. you turn into Stoke or Swansea or something like that. Still, I suppose that RM will have experience of that..

[Farmer Saint]

1 hour ago, DrunkenSaint said:

He almost F@@ked that up as well when having probably the best squad in the league, yes we had a very good championship squad already in place and we still do and thats the problem. 

"Probably" is doing a lot of heavy lifting in that sentence.

[Football Special]

He's not getting the sack is he, there seems little point in a Martin out campaign unless the ownership changes so for now I say remember the vow we took: 

When we get promotion 

This is what we'll sing

We are southampton we are southampton 

Martin is our king 

[Midfield_General]

3 hours ago, Harry_SFC said:

I mean SR put that on themselves. Haggling over a £500,000 compensation or something stupid. 

Our policy on recruiting managers is just generally odd. We have no problem spunking £6m in fees and four years-worth of wages on players like Wood and Edwards who can't even get in the match day squad, or £8m plus wages on a striker who's only fit to play 20 minutes a season, but god forbid paying a fraction of that for a manager who might actually make us competitive in the Premier League, with a prize of £100m if he finds a way to come fourth from bottom. 

[Farmer Saint]

2 hours ago, CB Fry said:

Pretty bloody risky to think that the yo yo strategy is in any way sustainable. Not least significant discomfort in the customer base.

I don't think it's the plan per se, more that the investment profile means that it doesn't particularly matter which division we're doing it in if we are confident of getting out of the Championship within 3 years.

[DT]

Pretty obvious we should just spend some money and get Moyes in before Palace do. He sorts the defence, makes us hard to beat, and then we can concentrate on the goals. Pretty standard for anyone except twats who think they are outliers who can somehow beat the world by picking gems. Or something. But we won’t do that because our Danish friend is a twat. 

Edited 22 October, 2024 by DT

[verlaine1979]

1 hour ago, Farmer Saint said:

I don't think it's the plan per se, more that the investment profile means that it doesn't particularly matter which division we're doing it in if we are confident of getting out of the Championship within 3 years.

Not sure the player investment profile works during the seasons when we're in the Championship. If you're in the PL you can sign a promising player like Fernandes who immediately looks like someone you'll make a healthy profit on. Are those players going to be interested in joining the second tier of English football, or are we going to end up recruiting more players like Shea Charles? Likewise, I'm not sure you see full value from your saleable assets if you only manage a single season at a time in the PL, as you're inevitably selling with the pressure of relegation, when everyone knows your better players will want out (and will possibly down tools if they don't get a move).

In other words, if someone has convinced Solak that yo-yoing back and forth between the PL and Champ is a good way to make money, then I'd love to speak to him as I've got a bridge to sell.

[Turkish]

10 hours ago, CSA96 said:

 

in line with our philosophy. I see this as great news long term. if he fails to keep us up this season if he gets up back up next season having failed this season he's likely to succeed next time round. #weloveafailure #dontfearfailure #itsnothowmanytimesyougethititshowmanytimesyougethitandkeepmovingforward

[HKsaint]

1 hour ago, Turkish said:

in line with our philosophy. I see this as great news long term. if he fails to keep us up this season if he gets up back up next season having failed this season he's likely to succeed next time round. #weloveafailure #dontfearfailure #itsnothowmanytimesyougethititshowmanytimesyougethitandkeepmovingforward

I see RM is now preparing for the next season in championship testing his Russball with PL teams.  Our ambition is to get back to where we are now, but in a longer term. 

[AlexLaw76]

6 hours ago, Farmer Saint said:

I don't think it's the plan per se, more that the investment profile means that it doesn't particularly matter which division we're doing it in if we are confident of getting out of the Championship within 3 years.

Investment strategy in supporting a yo-yo club? Really?

We are the 6th biggest net spenders this summer. Hardly the strategy of a club ready to go again in the league below.

 

[Maggie May]

6 hours ago, DT said:

Pretty obvious we should just spend some money and get Moyes in before Palace do. He sorts the defence, makes us hard to beat, and then we can concentrate on the goals. Pretty standard for anyone except twats who think they are outliers who can somehow beat the world by picking gems. Or something. But we won’t do that because our Danish friend is a twat. 

I bet there were a few Sunderland fans saying the same thing as you before they brought Moyes in…

[Farmer Saint]

9 hours ago, DT said:

Pretty obvious we should just spend some money and get Moyes in before Palace do. He sorts the defence, makes us hard to beat, and then we can concentrate on the goals. Pretty standard for anyone except twats who think they are outliers who can somehow beat the world by picking gems. Or something. But we won’t do that because our Danish friend is a twat. 

Moyes isn't interested - turned our enquiry down last week (as did Potter).

Edited 23 October, 2024 by Farmer Saint

[Farmer Saint]

7 hours ago, Turkish said:

in line with our philosophy. I see this as great news long term. if he fails to keep us up this season if he gets up back up next season having failed this season he's likely to succeed next time round. #weloveafailure #dontfearfailure #itsnothowmanytimesyougethititshowmanytimesyougethitandkeepmovingforward

All I took from those hashtags was titshow.

[Farmer Saint]

3 hours ago, AlexLaw76 said:

Investment strategy in supporting a yo-yo club? Really?

We are the 6th biggest net spenders this summer. Hardly the strategy of a club ready to go again in the league below.

 

Irrelevant that we're 6th biggest spenders in a Summer where PSR has hit clubs hard - what was the investment profile of those players? Were they high value high wage older established players, or low value, low wage young players? How many players did we buy that look like players ready for getting relegated again (Wood, Edwards etc)? Ramsdale was mid value, high wage, but has a relegation release clause and we can recoup the money for him.

As said it is only a theory, but the existence of a 10 year plan and is not being worried about getting relegated certainly makes me think this is the strategy.

Edited 23 October, 2024 by Farmer Saint

[Galway saint]

6 hours ago, HKsaint said:

I see RM is now preparing for the next season in championship testing his Russball with PL teams.  Our ambition is to get back to where we are now, but in a longer term. 

makes sense - in order to get back to where we are now we have to pursue a strategy that first gets us relegated 

it’s almost impossible to see him turning this around as we need to stop conceding goals and at no point in his managerial career has been able to set a team up to to defend

equally there is no point sacking him if we don’t have a good replacement lined up and I’m not sure a top manager will be interested 

[Clapham Saint]

15 hours ago, disconnect said:

He'll only turn things around if he actually changes the way we play, which he kind of did, for a half (which we were the better team) on Saturday. The issue is, he's repeatedly said he won't change how he sets us up, and as soon as we fall back into his style, we concede tonnes of goals, and any good the team have done is quickly wiped out. If he wont change the way we play, and we stick with him, the same thing will happen against Everton and Wolves (and Man City) and we'll be rock bottom and even further from hope. At the moment we're 3 points from safety, when we're suddenly 9 points from safety, any prospective manager looks at things a very different way.

It seems to me that the most important thing to RM is stetting up his team to play “the right way”, whereas the most important thing to a professional PL manager should be winning games.

 

[StrangelyBrown]

4 minutes ago, Clapham Saint said:

It seems to me that the most important thing to RM is stetting up his team to play “the right way”, whereas the most important thing to a professional PL manager should be winning games.

 

The most important thing to RM is RM.

Part of this is making sure he's defined by his philosophy and not by his results, presumably because he hope to do what Vincent Kompany has done.

Presumably staying in this league isn't important to SR otherwise they would have acted already. After the next 3 games we'll be sufficiently adrift that it will take a miracle to stay up - at this point SR might as well persist with RM until the end of the season and we can continue to enjoy his self promoting twaddle.

[Wade Garrett]

1 hour ago, Galway saint said:

makes sense - in order to get back to where we are now we have to pursue a strategy that first gets us relegated 

it’s almost impossible to see him turning this around as we need to stop conceding goals and at no point in his managerial career has been able to set a team up to to defend

equally there is no point sacking him if we don’t have a good replacement lined up and I’m not sure a top manager will be interested 

We don’t need a top manager.  A competent one with a touch of humility would be an improvement.

[Midfield_General]

30 minutes ago, StrangelyBrown said:

The most important thing to RM is RM.

Part of this is making sure he's defined by his philosophy and not by his results

It’s such a bizarre concept that it’s almost surreal. It’s even more surreal that anyone other than the person spouting it wouldn’t just dismiss it as madness. 

A football manager who wants to be defined by an approach that loses every game.

I build these amazing cars. They do everything except start. 

I build these amazing planes. They do everything except fly. 

I build these amazing football teams. They do everything except win games of football. 

Admire me! 

It’s almost Orwellian.