Russell Martin

[FarehamSaintJames]

1 minute ago, ErwinK1961 said:

You know those two blokes on Twitter that you constantly mention and criticise ‘with controversial opinions’? You sound like them.

😂

Fair enough, I’ll reign it in. But I think it’s a fair point to make that a bigger name would attract more fans alongside potentially better players.

[Convict Colony]

Why havent any of out football manager guru's played Martins tactics with a guess of squad (piroe etc no lavia) for the championship.

What does FM say ?

[Toussaint]

3 minutes ago, Convict Colony said:

Why havent any of out football manager guru's played Martins tactics with a guess of squad (piroe etc no lavia) for the championship.

What does FM say ?

I just did not t for you, projecting forwards four years it seems we’ll be providing some stiff competition to Eastleigh for promotion out of the national league south. 

[ErwinK1961]

10 minutes ago, FarehamSaintJames said:

😂

Fair enough, I’ll rein it in. But I think it’s a fair point to make that a bigger name would attract more fans alongside potentially better players.

Bigger name would attract better players? Wow, controversial.

[Holmes_and_Watson]

25 minutes ago, Toussaint said:

I just did not t for you, projecting forwards four years it seems we’ll be providing some stiff competition to Eastleigh for promotion out of the national league south. 

There's a challenge mode where you can select "you will be owned by SR" and you have to succeed with Rasmus making baffling decisions above your head. Good luck!

Actually, I imagine that giving us a good FM team is one of the few SR successes. The game loves high potential wonderkids. So Lavia, Bazunu, ABK, possibly Larios and of course Tino will give you a strong base for success.

Edited 27 May, 2023 by Holmes_and_Watson

[FarehamSaintJames]

9 minutes ago, ErwinK1961 said:

Bigger name would attract better players? Wow, controversial.

 

[Saint Billy]

32 minutes ago, FarehamSaintJames said:

😂

Fair enough, I’ll reign it in. But I think it’s a fair point to make that a bigger name would attract more fans alongside potentially better players.

These days bigger money attracts better players.

[Toussaint]

14 minutes ago, Holmes_and_Watson said:

There's a challenge mode where you can select "you will be owned by SR" and you have to succeed with Rasmus making baffling decisions above your head. Good luck!

Actually, I imagine that giving us a good FM team is one of the few SR successes. The game loves high potential eonderkids. So Lavia, Bazunu, ABK, possibly Larios and of course Tino will give you a strong base for success.

To be fair I didn’t get that far, everything was going so swimmingly I thought it was time for some blue sky thinking, so I put the laptop in the bath, I didn’t just “consider breaking” it, I actually broke it! So we’ll  probably win the champions league, however I will now never know for certain. There are some drawbacks with the “breaking it” philosophy. Including the £1000.00 for a new laptop.

[Holmes_and_Watson]

Was it Tony Adams whose post match team talk after a defeat was goals win games. Then he walked back out.

[Verbal Kint]

41 minutes ago, FarehamSaintJames said:

I think the club should’ve gone all out on a Graham Potter type manager

I just have fears of Russell Martin being Claude Puel MKII. Lots of possession but not entirely attractive, and too safe.

Graham Potter is a Claude Puel type. Lots of possession without creating a lot. His Brighton team were effective but also pretty dull. De Zerbi has completely transformed the same group of players to become a much better attacking team

[West end Saints]

2 hours ago, Fitzhugh Fella said:

Of course they are well-intentioned, they have invested far too much to be anything else. I understand we are all fed up, I comprehend the rallying calls urging us to get behind Martin, but the reality is we are about to appoint an inexperienced manager who has a reputation of playing meaningless possession football as well as being stubborn over certain favourites. If we only believe half of what the two Swansea fans have told us on here then it looks like we are about to make a giant leap from the fireplace into the fire. 
This is not the right time to make an implausible leap of faith. The club has just experienced its worst-ever season in its history in terms of points per games. We desperately need a steady hand, a sensible pragmatic manager who can rebuild the shattered morale of the players and the fans. Martin is not that man. I suspect the fans will have had enough by Xmas. Saints supporters have always appreciated good football as much as they have victories, but by all accounts, we are about to appoint a man who is consumed by tactics that sends everyone to sleep. The club is at the crossroads. The right path needs to be chosen but the well-intentioned owners do not seem, in my opinion, to have what it takes to make the right decision. 

Who would be the options you feel are safer? 

I get what you say, but I'm not left with the feeling that a stand out option is slipping through our fingers. 

As Ive said before, managers generally fall into two categories :

Failed & sacked at our level of higher, experienced but with the negative of failure

On their way up, less of a name, maybe risky but with potential. 

 

I would generally lean towards the latter but with exceptions in both groups. 

 

At least Martin has solid knowledge of this league, winning more than he loses with very little backing. 

 

At least we are not getting Fat Sam (I wouldnt renew after life of season ticket) 

 

So who is better? I've seen a few names, but to be honest they either seem unrealistic or would have less fan support than Martin. 

I'm not totally convinced, more a 'OK could be good' than a 'wow'. But reasonable happy that it makes sense. 

[beatlesaint]

2 hours ago, Fitzhugh Fella said:

A fresh start with a manager who seems to have plenty of flaws according to the fans of the club he is leaving? Sounds ominous enough to be very concerned the club is making another bad error that won’t be rectified by looking at it with fresh eyes. 

Two words - Gordon Strachan

What I mean is its not always easy to judge by their current/previous jobs, every job comes with its own set of circumstances. Didnt that Wyn fella who posted say the defence was very inexperienced due to sales and injury, as a for instance?  

There are many managers who were average or crap at one club but did a great job elsewhere - Brendan Rogers has a very chequered career in that regard - but we dont even know Martin is going to be crap. I'm encouraged by the number of goals they scored to believe its not going to be the turgid side, side, side, ooh we are overthe halfway line, back, back, side, side shite weve seen the past 2 years.

 

Only time will tell.....

[Bad Wolf]

I wonder how the "we need a big name to attract good players" bunch would feel if we appointed Lampard?

[Badger]

19 hours ago, saint lard said:

I’m quietly confident he’ll be sacked by Christmas. 

Reads like you're already hoping for this to be the case which seems a bit premature really.

I'm prepared to give him the first 45 minutes of the season before I start to call for his head.

[Nordic Saint]

22 hours ago, SwansFan said:

He is also very very stubborn both in terms of moving away from a formation and having his favourite/non favourite players. One player he may well go after who is out of contract is Joel Latibaudiere. He is a bang average championship squad player imo but Martin absolutely adores him for his attitude, etc. If he's starting more than a dozen games for you though, you'll probably be in trouble. He is one of Martin's disciples. As is Grimes.

The club is full of bullshit slogans, etc. which he trots out on a regular basis. Courage and Bravery was a favourite of his, despite us being bottom of the league for blocked shots, blocked crosses, etc. You would rarely see players put their body on the line so presumably he was referring to the suicidal passing around the back that he insisted on, despite the fact we must have conceded half a dozen goals at least from it last season. It's always stuff like them being True to Themselves, Playing their Own Game.. blah blag. Management speak central.

He is also very, very good at the PR game. I've never seen so many dressing room/behind the scenes videos since he came in. It's as if he is also in charge of what goes out on twitter. All playing into a narrative. Wyn mentioned the crap keeper, Andy Fisher (who he signed from MK Dons) - he probably made a major gaff every other game and as soon as he kept a clean sheet Twitter was full of compilation videos of his (very routine) saves from the game. The propaganda from the club has been extraordinary at times.

We posted a video before the first home game of last season against Blackburn with Russ talking about us keeping the ball in that match and running them ragged. "At some point, guess what? They're not gonna be able to run anymore" We lost 3-0. And we lost up there later in the season to an injury time winner.

He messed up his substitution windows against Birmingham this season and we played the last 20 mins with 10 men (at 2-1 up). I don't think he knew the rules. We fell apart and lost 3-2.

He has also had a good relationship with the local press. I am guessing he uses his charm to cuddle up to them. Whilst we were on that run of 3 wins in 20odd games, he was getting questions about when he was signing a new contract. Anyone else would be getting questioned on his future. The one time someone did aim a slightly critical observation, the mask slipped a bit and he was quite nasty.

It seems like he has an ideology of how football should be played and if you don't agree with that, you're wrong. He seems to look down his nose at goals we've conceded from a corner or a long ball, etc. Almost like it somehow doesn't count.

He is very much your modern manager - loves stats, big on players mental health, big on the players enjoying it being the most important thing. At one point he said during a press conference "I am trying my best but that's not enough for some people" - well, it's a results business, Russell! He is big on it being a "process" yet doesn't define what that process is. Given how much he has chopped and changed here at times makes me think it's just a way to buy him more time.

He could do well for you purely on the basis that you're probably going to have a great squad. Alternatively, he could be gone by Christmas. The fact that he has been given a shot at a job like this staggers me quite frankly given his record.

I am personally glad to see the back of the insufferable prick. My only concern is who we'll get in to replace him.

That's pretty much how we felt about Nathan Jones.

Anyway, it looks like we may have done Swansea a favour, taking him off your hands like we did Luton when we took Jones. They didn't find it hard to get a better manager, Rob Edwards, who tansformed their season. Perhaps your new manager will do the same for you.

Edited 27 May, 2023 by Nordic Saint

[S-Clarke]

3 hours ago, Fitzhugh Fella said:

Of course they are well-intentioned, they have invested far too much to be anything else. I understand we are all fed up, I comprehend the rallying calls urging us to get behind Martin, but the reality is we are about to appoint an inexperienced manager who has a reputation of playing meaningless possession football as well as being stubborn over certain favourites. If we only believe half of what the two Swansea fans have told us on here then it looks like we are about to make a giant leap from the fireplace into the fire. 
This is not the right time to make an implausible leap of faith. The club has just experienced its worst-ever season in its history in terms of points per games. We desperately need a steady hand, a sensible pragmatic manager who can rebuild the shattered morale of the players and the fans. Martin is not that man. I suspect the fans will have had enough by Xmas. Saints supporters have always appreciated good football as much as they have victories, but by all accounts, we are about to appoint a man who is consumed by tactics that sends everyone to sleep. The club is at the crossroads. The right path needs to be chosen but the well-intentioned owners do not seem, in my opinion, to have what it takes to make the right decision. 

I think meaningless possession football is a bit far fetched, it isn't. Did Burnley play meaningless possession football? What about Boro? They were heavy, heavy possession based teams last year and in Burnley's case they got the reward for it as they had the right mix of players to complement it (one of those players is ours...!). Boro came close, but they weren't even expected to be there really.

I did have the opinion that a name, a strong character, was what we needed this summer and I would have been totally for someone like Viera or Potter  - but I think most of us knew that was far fetched.

The fact is that this decision is done, we either jump and down every week because we wanted x or y or we put last season firmly in the bin, forget the decisions of the past and see what the new season can bring us.

I do see talk about Swansea fans not rating Martin, but this is cherry picking as there are equally the same amount - if not more - who are very disappointed and upset to see him go, and those who believe with backing for the right players everything he has put in place would have been perfect.

[Fitzhugh Fella]

3 hours ago, ErwinK1961 said:

“Meaningless possession football” - his team scored the joint fourth most goals last season, hardly meaningless is it. It’s also reasonable to assume that we’ll have a better squad of players than he had at his disposable at Swansea.

Club have identified a possession style, as this gives us the best chance of breaking down the many teams that will just sit back against us and defend next season.

Its also nice to see there might actually be a strategy that will align between Wilcox, Manager and hopefully players we sign, something that has been missing since SR came in.

Will Martin be the right choice? Who knows, none of us do. But posts like yours, citing sacked by Xmas and out of frying pan into fire, are just weird (and unhelpful) when he’s not even in the building yet. 

 

Trouble is we’ve been here before when the Jones rumours started. Had the club listened to the doubters (of whom I was one) or even stopped to consider a nano second we could possibly still be in the PL. it’s called heading off at the pass before it’s too late. 

[Fitzhugh Fella]

19 minutes ago, S-Clarke said:

I think meaningless possession football is a bit far fetched, it isn't. Did Burnley play meaningless possession football? What about Boro? They were heavy, heavy possession based teams last year and in Burnley's case they got the reward for it as they had the right mix of players to complement it (one of those players is ours...!). Boro came close, but they weren't even expected to be there really.

I did have the opinion that a name, a strong character, was what we needed this summer and I would have been totally for someone like Viera or Potter  - but I think most of us knew that was far fetched.

The fact is that this decision is done, we either jump and down every week because we wanted x or y or we put last season firmly in the bin, forget the decisions of the past and see what the new season can bring us.

I do see talk about Swansea fans not rating Martin, but this is cherry picking as there are equally the same amount - if not more - who are very disappointed and upset to see him go, and those who believe with backing for the right players everything he has put in place would have been perfect.

Possession football is fine as long as there is some serious intent at the end of it. The Swansea fans (the ones that came on here anyway) seem to think there wasn’t. That has had my alarm bells ringing loud and clear. But it seems it’s already a fait accompli  so I guess I am going to have to follow your approach, grit my teeth and hope for the best. I am prepared to be hugely surprised or very disappointed. 

[Lord Duckhunter]

I think a lot of players under pressure revert to safety first tactics and pass the buck.  Bravery isn’t just about getting stuck in, it’s about wanting the ball when you’re up against it, it’s about trying things when the crowd are on your back, it’s about playing with relegation pressure. Players with a weak mentality take the easy option, for direct sides the easy option is the ball into the channels, or hitting the front men too early. For possession based sides it’s the sideways or backwards pass, it’s the easy 5 yard pass , the obvious one. Our players are scared shitless of making a mistake so constantly give safe passes. It’s not possession football that’s the issue, it’s the mentality of the players playing it.

If we’re flying at the top of the championship and the mentality is right it’ll be great to watch, quick, penetrating, great movement and decisive. If the players are weak and fearful it’ll be the same shit show we’ve watched the past 18 months. 

[Whitey Grandad]

1 minute ago, Fitzhugh Fella said:

Possession football is fine as long as there is some serious intent at the end of it. The Swansea fans (the ones that came on here anyway) seem to think there wasn’t. That has had my alarm bells ringing loud and clear. But it seems it’s already a fait accompli  so I guess I am going to have to follow your approach, grit my teeth and hope for the best. I am prepared to be hugely surprised or very disappointed. 

I agree. It’s hardly the best advertisement for selling season tickets.

[Badger]

4 minutes ago, Fitzhugh Fella said:

Trouble is we’ve been here before when the Jones rumours started. Had the club listened to the doubters (of whom I was one) or even stopped to consider a nano second we could possibly still be in the PL. it’s called heading off at the pass before it’s too late. 

Who’s your preferred option FF ?

Like you I haven’t been over enamoured with the RM rumours, especially hearing some of the views from Swansea. 

But having said that, once you remove the probably over optimistic names like Potter there aren’t many left.

(I wouldn’t have been against Mowbray, but all names seem to have their flaws). 

[Badger]

5 minutes ago, Fitzhugh Fella said:

…. grit my teeth and hope for the best. I am prepared to be hugely surprised or very disappointed. 

Think it has to be this.

One of my fears is that if Leicester and Leeds, assuming they come down with us, make what appears to be more impressive appointments, the discontent among our fans will crank up a few levels. 

Before a ball is kicked we’ll find ourselves back in ‘he’s got 10 games, give him till October’ type of territory. 

[Fabrice29]

13 minutes ago, Fitzhugh Fella said:

Trouble is we’ve been here before when the Jones rumours started. Had the club listened to the doubters (of whom I was one) or even stopped to consider a nano second we could possibly still be in the PL. it’s called heading off at the pass before it’s too late. 

Yes, the club should definitely listen to the opinions of some guy who despite being presented with facts about goals and shots seems to have doubled down on his opinion because two people who he has never met and cannot validate their identity have signed up and posted within hours of each other on another teams messageboard. 

[OldNick]

13 minutes ago, Fitzhugh Fella said:

Trouble is we’ve been here before when the Jones rumours started. Had the club listened to the doubters (of whom I was one) or even stopped to consider a nano second we could possibly still be in the PL. it’s called heading off at the pass before it’s too late. 

Luckily the club didnt listen to the fans re Poch and back to Big Mac. We all believe we know best. The reality is that we are a Championship club with a fanbase that is disenchanted. We have a list of managers thrown to the dogs, as they in our opinion didnt fit certain sections taste. 

The list of people wanting to take us on has dropped in quality I myself was not rushed into headlong celebration with the new owners very early. Semmens was a good man but I wonder if he he got sucked in by the sales talk and now regrets choosing to go forward with their bid ?

[Nordic Saint]

2 hours ago, West end Saints said:

At least Martin has solid knowledge of this league, winning more than he loses with very little backing. 

 

 

 

 In 2019-20 Swansea finished 6th and in 2020-21 they finished 4th, so they weren't exactly struggling before Russell Martin arrived and took them to 15th and 10th.

15th was Swansea's worst finish in the 2nd tier since they were relegated in 1984. No wonder their fans weren't happy.

Edited 27 May, 2023 by Nordic Saint

[InvictaSaint]

26 minutes ago, Fitzhugh Fella said:

Possession football is fine as long as there is some serious intent at the end of it. The Swansea fans (the ones that came on here anyway) seem to think there wasn’t. That has had my alarm bells ringing loud and clear. But it seems it’s already a fait accompli  so I guess I am going to have to follow your approach, grit my teeth and hope for the best. I am prepared to be hugely surprised or very disappointed. 

Just as a counterpoint, here are some alternative Swansea fans’ views I have found over the last couple of days. But I imagine it will be like every other manager - some will like him, some will be indifferent and others will hate him, for whatever reason. Take David Moyes - got West Ham to a European final, but only just survived in the PL. Some Hammers like him, some don’t. It will be the same with RM. We just have to hope that with better resources, a long pre-season (such as he didn’t have when he joined Swansea with a week to go before the season kicked off) and our support, he makes a good fist of it. As supporters what else can we do?! 

[Whitey Grandad]

27 minutes ago, Fabrice29 said:

Yes, the club should definitely listen to the opinions of some guy who despite being presented with facts about goals and shots seems to have doubled down on his opinion because two people who he has never met and cannot validate their identity have signed up and posted within hours of each other on another teams messageboard. 

More meaningless statistics. Football isn’t played on spreadsheets.

[ErwinK1961]

48 minutes ago, Fitzhugh Fella said:

Trouble is we’ve been here before when the Jones rumours started. Had the club listened to the doubters (of whom I was one) or even stopped to consider a nano second we could possibly still be in the PL. it’s called heading off at the pass before it’s too late. 

It’s nothing like Nathan Jones at all though is it. That appointment made no sense whatsoever, his ‘style’ matched nothing about the club and was doomed to fail from the outset.

As I said, the club have identified a style of play they think will succeed in trying to get us promoted, installed a DOF who matches the philosophy and will recruit accordingly. Joined up thinking, which makes a change from the last 18months.

We’re a championship team and need to cut our cloth accordingly. The same people who are calling the club a shambles, saying how broken everything is and trotting out names like Wankerson, are also the ones saying we should be attracting a bigger name.. if everything is so wrong why would a big name touch us with a barge pole.

[Saint Gifford]

It’s a really big decision this one.

Martin appears on paper to be the boards chosen one. If he gets us promoted, great. 

Will he get the chance to manage us in the Prem if we get there, probably doubtful. Long gone unfortunately are the days of a Fergie 20 plus years in charge. 
 

Managers are like players, very dispensable from both club and the person. 
 

Harsh, but football is now all about short term goals. Yes we are a Prem team and need to get back.

But I can’t help feeling we are falling in the trap of the likes of Watford, Leeds, Everton and even Chelsea ect ect

 

 

 

 

 

[Dusic]

1 hour ago, Fitzhugh Fella said:

Possession football is fine as long as there is some serious intent at the end of it. The Swansea fans (the ones that came on here anyway) seem to think there wasn’t. That has had my alarm bells ringing loud and clear. But it seems it’s already a fait accompli  so I guess I am going to have to follow your approach, grit my teeth and hope for the best. I am prepared to be hugely surprised or very disappointed. 

They were the 4th top scorers in the league this season, so looks like there was some intent.

Not that facts will change your view.

Martin also has 2 years current experience in the actual league that we are going to be playing in. As well as significant recent experience of playing and being promoted from it.

I would say thats enough knowledge of the league.

[david in sweden]

4 hours ago, FarehamSaintJames said:

😂

Fair enough, I’ll reign it in. But I think it’s a fair point to make that a bigger name would attract more fans alongside potentially better players.

 Mmm....a bigger name?    you mean someone who has played at the top level.. maybe even won things ..How about Steven Gerrard and Frank Lampard ?

Oh yes...  they've tried as managers and failed miserably to motivate their players.  Many of such " managers "  are not really ambitious  - just greedy. 

It's maybe good to remember that good coaches / managers have other qualities in their locker and two of the 21st century's most successful managers

( Arsene Wenger and Jurgen Klopp ) never played top level football at all in their own careers. 

There are very few accolades being handed out to  Selles  a.t.m.,  but I'll be interested to see how his career develops in the next 4-5 years. 

 

..attract more fans ?.......my days as a travelling fan are long since gone, and no longer possible physically, or geographically, but I take my hat off to

those several thousand fans who travel away all the time, and can often be heard  "out-singing " the home fans in some of the country's largest stadia

---despite our league status.   Those " fans" who leave SMS after a home defeat, having booed the team off the pitch ... are in another category. 

 

Potentially better players ?....We'd need a lot of money to achieve that. Sport Republic have shown that they are not afraid to spend money - even if

some of  it was misplaced with some of the transfer deals, but now look at Chelsea... with a new owner who throws money at everyone, and has 

spent over 200 million in the last year on a lot of players with individual talent, but still hasn't got  "a real team"  who can finish in the top half of the Prem.

Tottenham have immense debts - after building their billion pound stadium - and are still buying players for huge sums, who simply  - aren't up to the job.

They've spent over 100 million in trying to replace a right back who they rejected and sold to us for a mere 12 million.    ( It' s just Karma Glenn.... Karma! ) 

 

Although those things you mentioned at the top of the page may make sense, every real success is built from the ground up and now we have 

a chance ( in the Championship) to start over.  Hopefully the right manager will help us on the way.  

In my 64 years as a Saints fan, I've learned to be both philosophical and pragmatic,  those "fans" who want to watch " top level " football still have 

two South Coast side to follow - if they don't mind a little travel time.     I can't change my blood type. 

 

 

 

[Fitzhugh Fella]

1 hour ago, Fabrice29 said:

Yes, the club should definitely listen to the opinions of some guy who despite being presented with facts about goals and shots seems to have doubled down on his opinion because two people who he has never met and cannot validate their identity have signed up and posted within hours of each other on another teams messageboard. 

In my experience the best people to judge a manager are by and large the ones who have just had a couple of years experience watching his teams week in week out. Yes those two Swansea fans could be imposters, but I doubt it as there’s not much in it for them. I had my doubts about Martin before they posted so their views are just a reinforcement of my fears. 
The proof is always in the eating so my negativity could be misplaced but of course by the time the dish is consumed it’s too late to send it back. 
What’s pissed me off so much at St Mary’s recently is playing out from the back, tip tappy football up to the half way line, turning back then passing back to the goalkeeper who lumps it out for a throw in. From everything I have read and from everything I have seen RM seems to embrace this mantra of safety first non dynamic football. Forgive me for setting off some alarm bells, I should instead donned my happy clappy bells, stuck my rose coloured glasses on and become a fully signed up member of the Rasmus Ankerson fan club. 
Of course you are more than welcome to ram this post down my throat this time next year should we be celebrating promotion. Indeed I would welcome it but deep down I somehow doubt you will get the chance. 

[Fitzhugh Fella]

15 minutes ago, Dusic said:

They were the 4th top scorers in the league this season, so looks like there was some intent.

Not that facts will change your view.

Martin also has 2 years current experience in the actual league that we are going to be playing in. As well as significant recent experience of playing and being promoted from it.

I would say thats enough knowledge of the league.

Take your point re the scoring but their defensive record is poor. Having a 20 goal marksman in the Dutch forward (Pirhoe) would have helped things. 

[david in sweden]

2 hours ago, Badger said:

Reads like you're already hoping for this to be the case which seems a bit premature really.

I'm prepared to give him the first 45 minutes of the season before I start to call for his head.

you mean ....before he has the chance to make second half substitutions and bring on game-changers to win the match? 

[Fitzhugh Fella]

1 hour ago, Badger said:

Who’s your preferred option FF ?

Like you I haven’t been over enamoured with the RM rumours, especially hearing some of the views from Swansea. 

But having said that, once you remove the probably over optimistic names like Potter there aren’t many left.

(I wouldn’t have been against Mowbray, but all names seem to have their flaws). 

Yes I know we are not spoiled for choice. Initially I thought Potter could be persuaded (decent salary, a healthy budget etc) but it seems that wish has been unrealistic. 
it seems Martin isn’t even Wilcox’s first choice which is a worry. I would have preferred Nigel Pearson over Martin. He has experience in both PL and the C plus he is a no nonsense manager who may be able to whip the remnants of our squad into some sort of cohesive shape. And an added minor bonus is he knows his way around the corridors of St Mary’s and something of our back story. 

[woodsaint1]

28 minutes ago, Saint Gifford said:

It’s a really big decision this one.

Martin appears on paper to be the boards chosen one. If he gets us promoted, great. 

Will he get the chance to manage us in the Prem if we get there, probably doubtful. Long gone unfortunately are the days of a Fergie 20 plus years in charge. 
 

Managers are like players, very dispensable from both club and the person. 
 

Harsh, but football is now all about short term goals. Yes we are a Prem team and need to get back.

But I can’t help feeling we are falling in the trap of the likes of Watford, Leeds, Everton and even Chelsea ect ect

 

 

 

 

 

If he gets us promoted, he will definitely get the chance to manage us in the PL. Cant think of many managers who've not been given the opportunity to manage in the PL after promotion.

If we're struggling by xmas time in our first season back then his job may be under threat

[Dusic]

14 minutes ago, Fitzhugh Fella said:

Take your point re the scoring but their defensive record is poor. Having a 20 goal marksman in the Dutch forward (Pirhoe) would have helped things. 

Always helps having a goalscorer but you also have to create chances which all the stats show Swansea did.

The angle of attack about lots of possession with no intent seems pretty lazy considering they were a good attacking team last season and the stats back that up.

We played the rubbush stuff this season at the back because our defenders are absolutely clueless in possession and probably not well coached on it and there was little movement further forward.

Having a coach prioritise in possession patterns will surely help that rather than lead to more of the same.

[OldNick]

1 minute ago, Fitzhugh Fella said:

Yes I know we are not spoiled for choice. Initially I thought Potter could be persuaded (decent salary, a healthy budget etc) but it seems that wish has been unrealistic. 
it seems Martin isn’t even Wilcox’s first choice which is a worry. I would have preferred Nigel Pearson over Martin. He has experience in both PL and the C plus he is a no nonsense manager who may be able to whip the remnants of our squad into some sort of cohesive shape. And an added minor bonus is he knows his way around the corridors of St Mary’s and something of our back story. 

Oh come on Duncan, Pearson really?? That boat sailed years ago. 

Sooner or later the fanbase has to come to terms that we are a Championship club and so back the manager. Im not sure there is a manager out there that will appease all. 

[West end Saints]

17 minutes ago, Fitzhugh Fella said:

Yes I know we are not spoiled for choice. Initially I thought Potter could be persuaded (decent salary, a healthy budget etc) but it seems that wish has been unrealistic. 
it seems Martin isn’t even Wilcox’s first choice which is a worry. I would have preferred Nigel Pearson over Martin. He has experience in both PL and the C plus he is a no nonsense manager who may be able to whip the remnants of our squad into some sort of cohesive shape. And an added minor bonus is he knows his way around the corridors of St Mary’s and something of our back story. 

Nothing special from Pearson in last 10 odd years suggests he would be better. 

I wasn't huge fan when he was here, mixed record since and currently at a level below Martin. 

Fair enough though, an option, not one I would choose before Martin, but at least you suggest one, most of those moaning can't. 

[Cabrone]

I'm happy to back him and look forward to next season. TBH not sure who else we could have appointed who would have been better.

Compared to the dismal fare we have been subjected to recently I think next season is going to be a deep breath of fresh air.

Who knows, we may even win a few games.

[Fabrice29]

19 minutes ago, Fitzhugh Fella said:

In my experience the best people to judge a manager are by and large the ones who have just had a couple of years experience watching his teams week in week out. Yes those two Swansea fans could be imposters, but I doubt it as there’s not much in it for them. I had my doubts about Martin before they posted so their views are just a reinforcement of my fears. 
The proof is always in the eating so my negativity could be misplaced but of course by the time the dish is consumed it’s too late to send it back. 
What’s pissed me off so much at St Mary’s recently is playing out from the back, tip tappy football up to the half way line, turning back then passing back to the goalkeeper who lumps it out for a throw in. From everything I have read and from everything I have seen RM seems to embrace this mantra of safety first non dynamic football. Forgive me for setting off some alarm bells, I should instead donned my happy clappy bells, stuck my rose coloured glasses on and become a fully signed up member of the Rasmus Ankerson fan club. 
Of course you are more than welcome to ram this post down my throat this time next year should we be celebrating promotion. Indeed I would welcome it but deep down I somehow doubt you will get the chance. 

I have no real issue that you or anyone else think it's going to be a disaster of an appointment right (I mean, he's been successful in both his other jobs when you apply context and the things he seemingly prioritises are things we actively need to be better at so I don't really see why people are negative but it's an opinion). I have no real issue why people would rather watch a Nigel Pearson side. Maybe you want to watch organised football lead by a man who knows his way around St Marys. Maybe I want to watch us antagonise teams, try something different, daring to be brave on the ball and have a completely different vibe and energy to the one we've watched over the last few years. That's all opinion right? However my main issue is the reason for people's negativity that keeps being bought up is this bizarre narrative that I have bolded above that just simply isn't true.

A) We have taken the highest percentage of goal kicks long in the league.  So it's simply not true to say we have been playing this way to any real extent and that RM will embrace that and we'll just see a continuation of what we have seen this season. What you have witnessed is a team that thinks about being progressive and attempts to do it but is so badly coached at doing it that it both fails and is abandoned very quickly. 

B) The idea that RM is embracing a safety first non dynamic football also simply isn't true. Firstly, your very next post admits his teams are poor defensively so hardly safety first and the Swansea fans posts on here readily admit goals are conceded because of the way they play, so it's simply not true to say it's risk adverse. Secondly you and others keep mentioning this whole boring, meaningless, non dynamic possession all in the face of the actual facts that his team quite literally scored a relatively good amount of goals and quite literally had as many shots per game as the champions of the division who go into the PL with all the plaudits about how well they have played. 

People have every right to be pissed off about this appointment, there's legit concerns about the goals his team concedes and it may not work out and maybe he'll be gone by Xmas but going into the appointment negative about things that are fundamentally incorrect is just odd. 

[Tom & Gerry]

The new manager, needs to be given the tools(players) to do the job. They then need to get off to a good start by winning some games. That way the fans are happy (easily pleased or displeased), the owners are happy, the players are happy and the manager is happy. With everyone pulling in the right direction you can have success. If it doesn't happen it's an uphill struggle and everything starts to fall apart and the manager will get the blame and the sack whoever he is, big name or not.

[Saint Fan CaM]

My biggest concern with the proposed Martin appointment is that he favours a style of football that is not suited to our team - attempting to play out from the back. It’s not really worked, particularly with McCarty’s distribution and worse still when we’ve played lower league teams we’ve still looked rubbish. It’s not the Manager who ensures tactics are translated into results on the pitch…it’s the players and with JWP having so much possession that tends to translate into sideways and backwards passes with little dynamic threat going forwards.  I just wonder whether this is really an appointment that will change our fortunes or one that will see us sink even further…the jury’s out, but I’m not hopeful.

[AlexLaw76]

37 minutes ago, Saint Fan CaM said:

My biggest concern with the proposed Martin appointment is that he favours a style of football that is not suited to our team - attempting to play out from the back. It’s not really worked, particularly with McCarty’s distribution and worse still when we’ve played lower league teams we’ve still looked rubbish. It’s not the Manager who ensures tactics are translated into results on the pitch…it’s the players and with JWP having so much possession that tends to translate into sideways and backwards passes with little dynamic threat going forwards.  I just wonder whether this is really an appointment that will change our fortunes or one that will see us sink even further…the jury’s out, but I’m not hopeful.

just as well most of the 1st team will be gone....despite what people say on here

[Fitzhugh Fella]

2 hours ago, West end Saints said:

Nothing special from Pearson in last 10 odd years suggests he would be better. 

I wasn't huge fan when he was here, mixed record since and currently at a level below Martin. 

Fair enough though, an option, not one I would choose before Martin, but at least you suggest one, most of those moaning can't. 

I saw an article the other day giving him some credit with building the Leicester squad which went on to win the PL. I know it’s slightly left field but to me he’s less of a metrics hipster and that is what we need right now. 

[Fitzhugh Fella]

2 hours ago, West end Saints said:

Nothing special from Pearson in last 10 odd years suggests he would be better. 

I wasn't huge fan when he was here, mixed record since and currently at a level below Martin. 

Fair enough though, an option, not one I would choose before Martin, but at least you suggest one, most of those moaning can't. 

He’s with Bristol City who are in the same Division as us and Swansea?

[Fitzhugh Fella]

1 hour ago, Fabrice29 said:

I have no real issue that you or anyone else think it's going to be a disaster of an appointment right (I mean, he's been successful in both his other jobs when you apply context and the things he seemingly prioritises are things we actively need to be better at so I don't really see why people are negative but it's an opinion). I have no real issue why people would rather watch a Nigel Pearson side. Maybe you want to watch organised football lead by a man who knows his way around St Marys. Maybe I want to watch us antagonise teams, try something different, daring to be brave on the ball and have a completely different vibe and energy to the one we've watched over the last few years. That's all opinion right? However my main issue is the reason for people's negativity that keeps being bought up is this bizarre narrative that I have bolded above that just simply isn't true.

A) We have taken the highest percentage of goal kicks long in the league.  So it's simply not true to say we have been playing this way to any real extent and that RM will embrace that and we'll just see a continuation of what we have seen this season. What you have witnessed is a team that thinks about being progressive and attempts to do it but is so badly coached at doing it that it both fails and is abandoned very quickly. 

B) The idea that RM is embracing a safety first non dynamic football also simply isn't true. Firstly, your very next post admits his teams are poor defensively so hardly safety first and the Swansea fans posts on here readily admit goals are conceded because of the way they play, so it's simply not true to say it's risk adverse. Secondly you and others keep mentioning this whole boring, meaningless, non dynamic possession all in the face of the actual facts that his team quite literally scored a relatively good amount of goals and quite literally had as many shots per game as the champions of the division who go into the PL with all the plaudits about how well they have played. 

People have every right to be pissed off about this appointment, there's legit concerns about the goals his team concedes and it may not work out and maybe he'll be gone by Xmas but going into the appointment negative about things that are fundamentally incorrect is just odd. 

I respect your thoughtful reply and understand your logic in places. Indeed I would like you to be correct in your analogy but taking everything I have read and watched so far into consideration I remain dubious he is what we need right now. Everyone needs a lift and galvanising and not sure the sort of football he promotes would do that. But hey this is a forum where differences of opinions is what it is all about. 

[FarehamSaintJames]

As someone said above my concern is more the style of play and the players currently at our disposal.

We need a mass overhaul. Imagine McCarthy playing out from the back, or Bednarek missing a pass etc.

I’ll back whoever the manager is, but I think of the majority of the fans to back him the manager has to be backed with players that suit his style.

I don’t have great confidence in SR to get this right after the last season. 

The only thing that seems to be a bit of a saving grace now is that they seem to be trying to get a structure in place - DoF, HoYD etc.

[Saint Fan CaM]

2 hours ago, AlexLaw76 said:

just as well most of the 1st team will be gone....despite what people say on here

Maybe, but with so many changes to the starting line-up could anyone really confidently say who our ‘1st team’ actually is? I mean there are definite starters sure and they may likely be the first ones out, but who would care if Walcott, Ely and AMN are no longer here? All three have featured prominently under Selles. As I’ve said before, I reckon Martin would give his right arm to keep JWP in place I suspect as he’s so suited to his style of playing, but even if he was to stay would that bode well for the team, the results and ultimately our ability to even get into the play-offs? Almost impossible to say, however the biggest area of overhaul required in the team is up-front in my view (AM and ST)…huge gulf in quality needed to get us back up to the Prem. Difficult to see Tall Paul, Armstrong, Che and Mara all leaving, let alone Djenepo, Ely, Stu, Edozie, Orsic, etc.  does make you wonder if Tella will be kept or sold.

[saint michael]

He is going to come into a club where there is change on every front. It’s not a straight forward thing to do however good a coach he is. I think Strachan had the personality to pull people together and manage both up and down. He will need to the same. 
 

As fans our short term memories are bad. Not his fault but he will need to build a rapport that enables him the time he needs. Imagine he comes in and loses his first 3 home games. This was something I think Ralph did well and bought Ralph time giving him credit when things got bad. 
 

reading through above, everyone wants him to be successful, but I think our worries are that we all recognise that whoever comes in it’s not an easy gig, as we have been so far off good for far too long. I just hope we can stop trying to be groundbreakers on all fronts and get back to doing the simple football things well.